and good evening. a day that began with the direct of the cdc expressing cautious hope the country as a whole is, quote, nearing peak right now of

the coronavirus outbreak. well, it ended in a very different place. one that revolves around the president, his grievances, and the credit he believes he deserves but is not getting with more than 23,000 people in this country now dead, and many hundreds still dying every single day. certainly, focus on the new effort of states to slowly get back to normal, tempered by the enormous challenges that remain and the deep wounds the country continue to suffer day in and day out. but the president continued to hijack what is supposed to be a briefing from the coronavirus task force. yet again, he hijacks it with a brief -- excuse me -- a briefing with -- full of a very public diatribe. and, yet, another attempt in a long line of attempts to rewrite what is now widely reported to be his late and incomplete response to the crisis. in part, imposing a travel restriction on china, which according to "the new york times," still allowed 40,000 people to enter the country.

it wasn't a ban. shortly after the press conference got under way, he called anthony fauci about whether social distancing efforts could have prevented fatalities. here's what dr. fauci said on sunday. >> obviously, you could logically say that if you had a process that was ongoing, and you started mitigation earlier, you could have saved lives. i mean, obviously, if we had, right from the very beginning, shut everything down, it may have been a little dbit different. >> now, what he says is clear. he isn't attacking the president. isn't attacking the administration. it's just a fact. that was yesterday. here's fauci today when he was called out by the president. >> i had an interview yesterday that i was asked a hypothetical question. and hypothetical questions, sometimes, can get you into some difficulty because it's what would have or could have. the nature of the hypothetical

question was if, in fact, we had mitigated earlier, could lives have been saved? and the answer to my question was, as i always do and i am doing right now, perfectly honest, say, yes. obviously. that was taken as a way that maybe somehow something was at fault here. the first and only time that dr. birx and i went in and formally made a recommendation to the president to actually have a, quote, shutdown in the sense of not really shut down but to really have strong mitigation. we discussed it. obviously, there would be concern by some. in fact, that might have some negative consequences. nonetheless, the president listened to the recommendation and went to the mitigation. the next second time that i went with dr. birx into the president and said 15 days are not enough. we need to go 30 days.

obviously, there were people who had a problem with that because of the potential secondary effects. nonetheless, at that time, the president went with the health recommendations. and we extended it another 30 days. >> so fauci stood by what he had said on sunday to jake tapper. but he made sure to point out that he wasn't criticizing the president. and he pointed out that "the times," the times he was actually asked to meet with the president, the president backed his rec mommendations. why wasn't fauci invited earlier? nevertheless, the president went on, then, from there, to launch a series of attacks on the press, including the report in "the new york times" this weekend on many warnings that went unheeded before the administration, especially the president, began treating the outbreak as the threat it became. maggie haberman, one of the reporters on that story which he called a total fake, joins us shortly. then the president introduced, i

guess, you could call it a campaign-style video. it had ear marks of a propaganda-style video. it's full of deceptive editing and taking statements out of context, and is clearly designed to tout his administration's response and rewrite history of it. he followed that with more complaints about the coverage, including "the times" story. again. and said if he had acted sooner, three months sooner, is how he put it, quote, i would have been criticized for being way too early. this, on the other hand, is how he did act and what he did say about the outbreak and how it evolved over time. take a look. >> by april, you know, in theory when it gets a little warmer, it miraculously goes away. >> the coronavirus, which is, you know, very well under control in our country. we have very few people with it. the people are getting better. they're all gerti they' they're getting better. we're going substantially down, not up. >> of the 15 people, the

original 15, as i call them, eight of them have returned to their homes to stay in their homes until they are fully recovered. and again, when you have 15 people and the 15 is going to be down to close to zero, that's a pretty good job we've done. >> it's going to disappear one day it's like a miracle. it will disappear. and, from our shores, you noerks it could get worse before it gets better. could maybe go away. we will see what happens. nobody really knows. >> anybody that needs a test gets a test. they're there. they have the tests. and the tests are beautiful. anybody that needs a test gets a test. as of right now and yesterday, anybody that needs a test. that's the important thing. and the tests are all perfect. like, the letter was perfect. the transcription was perfect, right? this was not as perfect as that but pretty good. >> it will go away, just stay calm. it will go away. >> so, with that on the table and because the president has so much more to say, i want to go to cnn's chief white house

correspondent jim acosta. jim, i'm not even sure where to begin with that briefing. there was a sort of propaganda video touting the administration's response or the campaign-style video. what's particularly interesting -- first of all, i would like to hear your thoughts just overall of all the kind of stunning statements the president has made over time, how this ranks. just, overall, what did you think? >> yeah, anderson. i mean, i think this was a total meltdown the president had in that briefing earlier today. i have not seen him that off the rails since the days of charlottesville. when, clearly, that was a failure of presidential leadership on his part. and, to some extent, he is -- he is back pedaling because he knows the same kind of scrutiny is on him now. he responded pretty angrily during that briefing because of these stories that have been coming out over the last 48 hours. calling into question his actions as this pandemic was

building up and gaining momentum. and one thing we should point out about that video, which looked straight out at beijing or pyongyang. i mean, there were white house officials that were working on that video this afternoon. so that video, campaign-style video, propaganda video, whatever you want to call it was paid for with your tax dollars. but the white house put that video out there to respond to the criticism that's been coming in over the last couple days. and the president was asked about this during the briefing. whether or not he let too much time pass as he was offering all of these rosy projections about the coronavirus. and here's what he had to say. >> what did you do with the time? the month of february. >> you know what we did? what do you do when you have no case in the whole united states. >> you had cases. >> excuse me. you reported it. zero cases. zero deaths on january 17th. >> you have a complete gap. what did your administration do in february in the time that your travel ban -- >> a lot. and, in fakct, we'll give you a

list. part of it was up there. look. look. you know you're a fake. you know that? your whole network, the way you cover it is fake. not all of you but the people are wise to you. that's why you have had a lower approval rating than you've had before, times probably three. >> cbs news who is a good reporter, anderson. >> i mean, again, he goes to like ratings and approval. approval numbers. like that's a metric that matters when so many people are dying and he is the president of the united states. the fact that he even focuses on his ratings during these press conferences is -- i mean, it's pathetic. it is fascinating. i mean, you know, a lot of epidemiologists and others have talked about this lost month of february. the idea, you know, the -- the -- the comment she was making and sort of the direction she was going in was, okay, you bought time with this alleged travel ban from china. wasn't really a ban.

tens of thousands of people still came in on flights. but you brought -- allegedly bought some time. what did you do with that time, in the month of february? and he couldn't answer it because that's a lost month because he was holding meetings with diamond and silk, if that's what they're called. and, you know, talking about magical disappearances in april. >> that's right, anderson, and keep in mind, the president was trying to defend the actions that he took during that lost period. but his words are also important. keep in mind, anderson, you know this all too well. half of the country is following his every word. there are governors in red states that were waiting to act because of what he was saying. and when the president of the united states is saying it's going to go away like a miracle, that this is just like the seasonal flu. and he is in an echo chamber with other people in conservative media and this information, misinformation, is reverberating back and forth, obviously that is going to influence policymakers outside of the federal government in states where those kinds of

decisions are critical. and i think that is something that the president is just -- he is trying to erase from everybody's memories. but propaganda videos and temper tantrums in the briefing room just won't do that, anderson. >> the president was also asked about dr. fauci and why he retweeted a fire fauci tweet and i want to play it because, again, his logic. there is no logic to it. let's just play this. >> i retweeted somebody. >> did you notice that when you retweeted it? >> yeah, i notice everything. that's somebody's opinion. >> you and dr. fauci are on the same page? >> yeah, we have been from the beginning. i don't know what it is exactly. but if i put somebody's opinion up, you know, i don't mind controversy. i think controversy's a good thing, not a bad thing. >> so i mean, the idea that he just, you know, retweeted somebody who says to fire his top scientist and he was aware of it, but it didn't mean anything. but he went ahead and did it. i mean, i would think a

presidential use of time is more valuable than searching online for tweets. like to fire the scientist if that's not what you, in fact, believe. >> that's absolutely right, anderson. and keep in mind, last friday, i pressed the president on this and whether or not he is going to tell his conservative allies to stop bashing dr. fauci or dr. birx and he declined to take that opportunity. he said he had respect for them but he declined to take that opportunity. he wants his officials to be like cats on a hot tin roof and constantly nervous about what the president thinks about them. but dr. anthony fauci, onei thi one of the reasons people have responded to him so positively around the country is he has the kind of credibility so many public officials right now just don't have. keep in mind, this is a public health official who was praised by former president george h.w. bush, bush senior, back in 199 -- 1988, excuse me. as a hero.

so this is somebody who has a track record that's been trusted over the last couple of decades, and has stood the test of time because he has been praised by both republicans and democrats. and it was -- it was a sad sight to behold to see dr. fauci fall on his sword during that briefing. but you do get the sense, and i hear this from talking to my sources, to some extent, dr. fauci, dr. birx, have to placate the president in order to stay in these very critical roles. because, as you know, anderson, without dr. birx and dr. fauci in those kinds of roles, the wheels really could come off this response from the administration, anderson. >> jim acosta. thanks. i want to bring in cnn senior political analyst maggie haberman. dana bash and chief medical correspondent dr. sanjay gupta. maggie, first of all, what are you hearing about the president's motivation behind him iruptierupting today at the briefing? i mean, it seems like it was linked to your report oefver th

weekend. >> look. he is very upset about that story. he's made clear for 24 hours he was very upset about that story. itse i am candidly a little disappointed with anthony fauci claiming he didn't say something yesterday that he did say. jake tapper's question was clearly about the gap when the social distancing measures were put in place in march compared to when they wanted to bring them in february. that does not help fauci's credibility. in terms of the president, he is going to be judged on how he handles this virus. that is going to be his legacy, and it's going to be this election. and he would rather have a fight with the media. you saw today and, unfortunately, it will work. >> of course. can you just lay out your reporting about the warnings and when? because i thought that fauci, you know, kind of public wa walk back was interesting because what he said was factually correct. obviously, had this, you know, social distancing. but what he said was the first time he was actually called in by the president to directly

give a recommendation, the president went with it. but that was the mid-march, you know, social distancing recommendation. i was surprised he hadn't -- i mean, i don't know if it's true. but he is indicating that he hadn't been called in earlier to give direct recommendations to the president. >> look. that's our reporting as well. i think that he had made some recommendations that were not in a formal setting. as i understand it, that presentation between fauci and dr. birx was very brief. the president had supposedly already made up his mind, which fits with a bunch of other pieces of reporting we had. but what we described in the story, and there were six of us on that story, we worked on it for a very long time -- was that there were e-mails among a group calling themselves the red dawn group that were very focused on this virus in january. wanted to take more extreme measures. the president did do this travel ban, and it was a limited ban with china. but he did it at the end of january. we talked about that in the piece. and he basically treated that as a mission-accomplished moment.

he did speak to alex azar, according to our reporting, the hhs secretary on january 3rd. azar said he wanted to go on tv and be critical of china. and the president told him stop panicking and that he didn't want him going on television and doing that. there was a memo by peter navarro, the trade advisor, that was widely circulated around the white house. the president, as we understand, was not shown but was aware of, told that it existed. he was not happy that navarro put very high potential estimates of death on paper. then you have the month of february where not a whole lot happened. the president went to india. he went to the west coast and no action was really taken. the irony is the video he showed tonight in the briefing room, his timeline, showed that. which is what he was being asked by reporters. where is february? why is this month missing? it's not just going to go away. >> which is why he got mad at the cbs reporter because she pointed out in that, in his own propaganda video, they couldn't come up with stuff from

february. >> literally, nothing. he turns the task force at the end of february to mike pence. and that's it. and then jared kushner came in. and the rest is history. >> right. i mean, it's classic like you're trapped in a corner, your argument, your own propaganda video has failed because you didn't realize you had nothing from february. and so you attack the reporter who, smartly, has pointed that out. i want to get to the rest of our panel. but, kaitlan, the conference just wrapped up. kaitlan collins was in the room. she joins us now. what was that like? you were in the room. i mean, jim acosta was saying it's, you know, one of the more unhinged things he's seen from this president. >> yeah. anderson, we had a feeling when we came in here and saw the video screens being set up and then the president said he had a video for us to watch. he smirked, while standing over to the side looking at reporters as that video was playing. but, of course, that video didn't include the president's own comments during that time period, when he was repeatedly downplaying threat of the

coronavirus. something he continued to do. he even, in march, tweeted he believed the media was inflaming the coronavirus past what the facts warranted. he quoted the surgeon zwrergene saying risk to the american population was low. and the questions that remain are not only about maggie's great reporting about the steps they didn't take in february. but, also, what kind of decisions that led governors to make because we know ron desantis of florida said his thinking was influenced by the president. and once he realized that president came out here, that briefing we all remember, that's what desantis said caused him to issue that stay-at-home order. and of course the other thing that came out of this briefing is the president said he believes he has total authority, as president of the united states, over these states' decisions. and, of course, that comes to this topic of whether or not they're going to open up ut the country and how they are going to do that. many states have said they are going to make their own decisions based on the data you have. states on the west coast and

east coast deciding they are going to work together. and i asked the president who it was that told him he had total authority over that because i just -- i don't know any republican governors who would agree to that. i don't believe that vice president mike pence, when he was governor of indiana, would have believed that president barack obama had total authority over his state. but it does show you what the president is thinking and how he is viewing this, as they're preparing for the end of the month when those social distancing guidelines are up. >> i mean, kaitlan, as you pointed out, one of the ironies of his now alleged belief that he has the power to do is just i think just last week when he was trying to explain why he wasn't trying to force all governors to have statewide stay-at-home orders was that he knows the constitution better than anybody. and he's, you know, a federalist. and he wants to leave it up to -- to the states because that's his understanding of the constitution. i just want to play one of the exchanges you had with the president today. >> a quick question about

something you just said. you said when someone is president of the united states, their authority is total. that is not true. who -- >> you know what we're going to do? we're going to write up papers on this. it's not going to be necessary because the governors need us, one way or the other because, ultimately, it comes with the federal government. that being said, we are getting along very well with the governors, and i feel very certain that there won't be a problem. yeah, please, go ahead. >> has any governor agreed that you have the authority to decide when their -- >> i haven't asked anybody. you know why? because i don't have to. go ahead, please. >> but who told you the president has the total authority? >> enough. >> so it's interesting he said they are going to agree one way or another. it sort of indicates that he has things they need and -- and that may be part of the convincing process. >> yeah and we can talk about the legal authority and what legal scholars would say about this all day long. but also, anderson, like what you said, what the president has

been saying because he repeatedly deferred to governors to make their own decisions for their states. saying it was up to them. that was not only about the stay at home orders and whether or not they should issue them but also supplies, where the president repeatedly said they are only there to back the states up. so the course -- of course, the question is, you know, if it does come down to this and this could be a very real situation where the president is recommending one thing and some governors, even republican governors in certain red states, do not take the president's guidelines because they do not feel it's right for their state. that being said, we have heard from governors who say they do want guidance from the federal government on what to do. we saw that play out with the social distancing guidelines. they are just saying they don't have the authority to decide whether or not a certain business in alabama or whatnot is going to open back up. >> dana, i want to get your reaction to that briefing. >> where do we start? first, just a little bit of reporting. you were talking to maggie about the obvious.

that the president was ticked off about the reporting that she and her colleagues, at "the new york times," did over the weekend. not to mention the interview our colleague jake tapper did with anthony fauci. and that was clear in the phone calls the president was having on easter sunday. i spoke to someone familiar with the president's phone calls, who described him as cranky and not happy and exclusively talking about the idea of, you know, the press out to get them. that they're all -- they're blaming him for things that happened in the past. and that -- of that kind of feeling was born that crazy propaganda video. and the lashing out that you saw in -- in the press conference that none of us have seen anything like. and that says a lot in the trump era. so that's number one. and, number two, you know, as we have all been talking about the notion of whether the president has the authority to, you know, do what governors may or may not want him to do, if you play it out, let's just say andrew cuomo

in new york. he says i don't want to do -- i don't want the schools to reopen. and the president says, no, i'm going to do it. let's say he goes to court and he gets approval, by a court, to do that. what happens if people get sick? and -- and they get -- and everything goes back to where it was. does he really want that? especially, for any president but especially a president heading to re-election. that he is going to own that decision in a way he has not wanted to do before. i think there was a lot of bravado at this press conference, and not a lot of reality when he stops this aat about. when his political, policy, never mind his health advisers remind him of that. >> you mean what he said is not actually what he is going to do? wow. stunning. >> i know, pick your jaw off the ground. i know. >> sanjay, just from a medical standpoint, will hlet's talk ab where things stand with the

virus. is this week a turning point of some sort? >> i think so. it's a significant week because the message a lot of people are hearing is that in some of these hotspots, the numbers are starting to plateau. that's obviously a good thing. but it also might give the sense to people that, you know, we're sort of through the woods or out of the woods on this. and -- and we're not. and, you know, the numbers, you know, in terms of people who -- who may still be tremendously affected by this could -- will -- will continue to grow. we know that, anderson. but one of the things i want to point out. you know, it's very interesting, when you listen to what we knew, when. we have this timeline that i sort of -- i was -- i was reading maggie's reporting over the weekend. and i wanted to put sort of a public health timeline on top of her reporting. what did we know, when? january 7th. let me preface by saying as things -- as we learn more and more about this virus, our level -- the level of concern among public health officials went up. january 7th, we knew that there was now this novel coronavirus. that's concerning.

a new virus that is spreading in humans. it's always going to raise antennas and stuff like that. but, even at that point, the question was is this going to be more like sars? which was bad but ultimately only 800 people died. was it going to be like h1n1 that infected tens of millions but a low lethality rate? or something worse? at the end of january when president trump put that travel ban in place, which, you know, probably had some significant benefit to it. at that same briefing, anderson, you may remember dr. fauci got up there and said we have some evidence that there is asymptomatic transmission of this virus. that is huge. that is a very huge concern. that changed it into an entirely different picture at that point. that was the end of january. by sort of middle of february, i interviewed dr. robert redfield, head of the cdc, on february 13th and he confirmed that. so, february 13th, we knew there was evidence there was clearly asymptomatic transmission, which really changed this.

by february 26th, we knew this was now circulating in the community. important points. the level of concern, anderson, this is a nuanced point. the level of concern wasn't the same every step of the way. it grew as we gained more information. but there was significant information, by the end of january, about asymptomatic spread, which is something the entire public health community looked at and said, whoa, this is different than what we've heard with sars. this is different than what we heard with other viruses. if it's that lethal and can spread asymptomatically, we have got to do something about it. so, you know, on march 16th, when we had the 15-day pause, that was a month and a half after that really significant information came out, anderson. >> sarnnjay, appreciate that. maggie haberman, kaitlan collins, dana bash. coming up, more on the president's comments and the president's authority. david axelrod will join us. later, we ask the doctor about new modeling that, by the third

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our search to transform... ...farm waste into renewable natural gas led chevron to partner with california bioenergy. working to provide an alternative source of power... ...for a cleaner way forward. we are talking tonight about the president's press conference. today's briefing wasn't about them. the president, yet again, went out of his way to make it about

himself. also, as date lip collikaitlan mentioned before the break. >> when you say my authority, the president's authority. not mine, because it's not me. this is when somebody's the president of the united states, the authority is total. and that's the way it's got to be. >> your authority is total? >> it's total. it's total. and the governors know that. the governors know that. you have a couple of bands of -- excuse me. excuse me. you have a -- >> could you rescind that order? >> you have a couple of bapnds f democrat governors, but they will agree to it. they will agree to it. the authority of the president of the united states having to do with the subject we're talking about is total. >> as you know, he's repeatedly stated that is up to the states to determine whether to impose those same orders he says he has the power to lift. he also says it's up to states to seek out ventilators and supplies. but joining us now, former state and federal official, senior

national security analyst, also, former senior advisor to president obama, david axelrod. david, is the president's power total in this? >> clearly, it's not total. and, as you pointed out earlier, you know, he was very -- he was very clear when he wanted to defend the seven governors who are allies of his, who didn't impose stay-at-home orders. that he didn't feel it was his role to -- to tell them what to do. and that he studied the constitution and that's the conclusion that he drew. and as you point out, there is a great irony because, minutes before he said that, he said the governors chose not to get ventilators. they should have gotten ventilators. basically, it was their responsibility to get ventilators. that they needed to take care of themselves in a global pandemic. and so, you know, the mixed messages were kind of -- even, by trumpian standards -- it was -- it was really something today. and it was clear that he was very motivated to try and

rebut -- you know, he was steamed up about what had been written about what hadn't been done. >> yeah. i mean, "the times" story, which clearly set him off. he said today the story in "the new york times" was a total fake. it's a fake newspaper and they write fake stories. he then proceeded to dim the lights to play this sort of propaganda, campaign-style video. julia, just from -- clearly, part of this may have set off. also, you had governor cuomo and a number of other governors from eastern states kind of holding a press conference, talking about their plans and instituting plans. i'm wondering -- you know, the president made the threat to states who don't open saying that, quote, he calls the shots. and essentially, you know, he has stuff they're going to need. i'm wondering what you make of the president's approach on this. >> well, it's a unique one because, in homeland security, we tend to talk about unity of effort between local, state, and

federal government, under the belief that we have a common goal of saving maamerican lives. i have come to believe and i think the university presidents and everyone else have come to believe that the president has run out of tricks. that he basically -- his anger is because he failed to exert authority when he had it, in trying to stop the pandemic. and, now, is pretending like he has authority when he doesn't. and so, you know, we got to deal with the crisis with the president we have, not the one that we deserve. and so you are seeing the governors in particular fill the vacuum. you saw regional efforts both on the west coast and the east coast to try to figure out a way in which we're going to open up responsibly. and that's going to be the only standard. what's the president going to do? force me out of my house? it's so ridiculous and the absurdity is such an insult to the first responders and the -- and the health and medical workers, who are simply trying to save lives right now. >> you know, david -- yeah, go ahead. >> i just want to -- i want to say one of the ironies of this is you look at those governors

out on the west coast, for example, and the governors on the east coast who have a more difficult problem. but you look at the governors on the west coast, who didn't wait for the president's guidance. who acted on their own and acted quickly, and they were able to blunt some of the worst edge of this still-serious problem out there. but not what it might have been because they acted when the president didn't act. and, now, he's saying i'm going to tell them when they can stop doing -- when they have to stop doing it. it -- it -- it's -- it's completely absurd. the other thing is that when, you know, we should point out that the whole point of the travel restrictions that he put in was to buy time so that steps could be taken to deal with what was inevitable, which was going to be an outbreak, here in this country, to get the ventilators going. to get the flow of materials to the states that would -- that would need them. and that process really began in mid-march when the president, finally, acknowledged that, no, this isn't under control. we're at war.

>> and, juliet, i mean, just in that idea, buying time was squande squandered essentially. i mean, you look again at the month of february where clearly the president's attitude was very different than what, you know, his epidemiologist, what scientists were -- were pointing out. >> that's exactly right. i think "the new york times" story is so damning, in so many ways. not simply because of what the president failed to do but the president's role was also to guide all of us. so i think about things like the shock that sort of all of us experience who were not expecting the shutdowns in terms -- because all of a sudden, there is no pandemic. and then there's a pandemic because the president had been denying it. i think about things like new orleans still having mardi gras in february, which is probably a hotspot that we have. with no knowledge by the local leaders about what was going on

in the white house, right? so no knowledge that maybe they shouldn't have had it. it's that kind of leadership role that, by the president denying this was coming, denied us. in other words, denied us being prepared, being ready for what was about to happen, getting the kits ready. and communicating. leaders communicating. governors. mayors. university presidents. ceos. about what was likely to happen, which was we -- we were going to do this. right? we were going to social -- socially distance. >> juliet, david axelrod. up next, we are going to continue the conversation about presidential powers versus those of the nation's governors to end the stay at home orders. we will talk to the republican governor of ohio, mike dewine. ♪ ♪

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as we reported earlier, the president was adamant that he and only he has authority to lift the orders the governors put in place. his response came after news broke today that governors in the northeast and west have formed regional pacts to determine where and how they will lift stay at home orders. joining me now is republican ohio governor, mike dewine. governor, thanks for being us. you have been consistent in saying it's up to governors when states open back up. obviously, many governors would like guidance from the president, from the administration. i'm wondering, though, when you hear the president saying it's absolutely up to -- to him, what do you think? >> well, anderson, first of all, we have had good relationship with the white house when i've asked them to do things that we really needed in ohio, they did it. for example, two weeks ago, i called the president on a sunday

morning and said the fda is not just moving fast enough in regard to patel labs in columbus. and they have a machine and a process where they can actually sterilize these masks. 80,000 a day. and they sped -- sped it up. i mean, he called the fda. got moving on it and we had it done by that night. i think, you know, when you -- i heard the president. i heard you just play it back on -- on -- on tv. but, look, the president of the united states, any president, has a big megaphone. and i think he is going to be just as influential as when he told people to stay home. so i think that's what the president is talking about. what we're trying to do in ohio and we're working it today and all weekend is come up with a plan where we can get ohioeans back to work and start moving on the pathway. but every state's different, every region of the country is different. so what we are putting together

is going to be a plan that's going to work, we hope, work for -- for our state. >> but you are putting together that plan. i know you said the president has a big bully pulpit and certainly this one certainly does, as all presidents do. but, in the end, if you are asked who is making the decision about ohio and what's good for ohio, it's you, yes? >> well, i have to make the decision. that's my -- that's my responsibility. but we're certainly going to consult with the white house. and i think what sometimes is -- is -- is missed is how much flow back and forth between the governors and -- and the white house. i was on the phone, today, for an hour and a half with other governors, with the vice president. we do that two or three times a week. it's a very candid exchange of ideas. and here's what we need. here's what is going on. and i think sometimes that's obviously not public. but i think sometimes people miss that there's that much give and take, going back and forkth

between this white house. and democrat governors and republican governors. >> it's certainly good to hear that does exist. it's just the way the president's presenting it, it does make it sound -- it doesn't sound like it's that. it's he has presidential authority, under the constitution, to determine what all states do. and that's just not the case. i mean, from my limited understanding of things. >> well, ultimately, the buck stops with me and stops with the other governors. but, again, i understand what the president's saying. you know, he is aspirational. he wants to get us back to work, and he's frustrated. and i'm aspirational. i want to get us back to work, and i'm frustrated. all people of ohio are fra frustrated but -- so i don't blame the president for describing it that way. andwe and we are certainly going to work with the president. look. one of the things we really,

really need is testing. you know, if you talk about a pathway -- you talk about a pathway to get us back, testing, ample testing, is going to be the way that we get back and get our people working again. huge, huge challenge. >> testing and contact tracing and things like that. is that something you, in the state, are set up for already? or is this a time when you are looking to get all that in place? because some states are talking about hiring or needing to hire a lot of people to do real contact tracing. is that something you are looking into? >> well, we're in the process of getting people. i don't think that's as big a problem as actually making sure you've got the capacity on -- on the testing. and this is changing. you know, for example, the -- the testing of the blood, which enables you to tell, you know, whether that person has had the virus and whether or not they, at least you would think, would have immunity. you know, a lot of different companies are in the market

today. one of the things i had to tell ohioans and our businesses today in our daily press conference is please be careful. you know, it may not work. and so these are things that we've got to work our way through. and it's -- it's -- it's not going to be easy. >> governor dewine, i appreciate talking to you. thank you very much. >> thanks, anderson. >> thanks for all you are doing. just ahead, coronavirus model cited by the white house has a new projection for what the death count may look like over the next two months. the director of the institute that publishes the model joins me next to talk about details. -excuse me. uh... do you mind...being a mo-tour? -what could be better than being a mo-tour? the real question is... do you mind not being a mo-tour? -i do. for those who were born to ride, there's progressive.

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we spoke hope at the top of the program. here's another piece of it. a new projection projecting coronavirus zero deaths, none after june 21st. as you might imagine, that headline is stirring questions. joinings is dr. chris murray the chair of house metric science, the university of washington. dr. murray, we talked to you about a lot of the different modeling you've been having. it was in the 80,000 by august when we first started talking to you. i think last week it was down around 61 or so thousand. can you explain your newest model, how it gets to the conclusion of no deaths, no new deaths after june 21st. >> so we get to no deaths by

the middle of june on the same basis we've been saying that since two, three weeks ago. that's what happens if everybody stays the course on the closures right through to the end of may. we're right now having a national discussion about rolling opening. if that does start to happen, then we will, of course, have to change our forecasts. the risk of resurgence is really large in some states. >> a number of experts have pushed back on the notion of no new deaths after that day. professor of epidemiology at harvard says there's no way that amount of control could happen by the summer. i'm wondering how you respond to that. >> the one thing we absolutely know for sure. social distancing measures work. it leads to a situation where every case is infecting less than one other case. that means, if you keep the course, you'll get transmission essentially down to zero. we're seeing that happen live in italy, we saw it in china. no reason it wouldn't work here.

the real question is what's the way to decrease the risk or resurgence if we don't stay the course? >> is it -- i assume your model is based on the idea that somebody who has been infected cannot get infected again. i know that's sort of a working assumption of dr. fauci and others, but is that something that has been proven definitively at this point? >> yeah. these reports that are coming out that have people concerned about the virus -- a little different than being infected again. just to be clear, in our model, we're not assuming that there's a lot of people who become immune to the virus. in fact, we think that because of the closures, we will end up getting to june with only 5% of the country infected. the reason we can get to zero is not because immunity, it's because we've put the brakes on transmission through social

distancing. but if the brakes on transmission, go through the end of may, if things open up in june, isn't it just logical for more transmissions to occur in june? >> the way we're trying to study this and we're going to be putting out some more information midweek is to say the following question, which is when would it be reasonably safe to open up by state? and reasonably safe means a really small number of cases in the community. there has to be some capability of the state to do contact tracing and quarantine. if you have five or ten cases in the state left, that should be manageable. if you have 100 or 1,000, that's going to be a very risky situation for that state. of course, there's the whole issue of border control. how do you stop infections coming from states that are later in the process or from

other countries. >> that's obviously with rolling efforts state by state, changing as you said from other countries, it's fascinating. let hope that it's accurate. dr. chris murray. we'll continue to check in with you on the models as they shift. we'll be right back. ♪ stop dancing around the pain that keeps you up again, and again. advil pm silences pain, and you sleep the whole night. advil pm

we hope to enthe program tonight by focusing on health care workers as we do many nights but the white house task force briefing went longer than expected. tomorrow night we'll bring a nurse's remarkable account of what she faces. the news continues right now. i want to hand things over to chris for cuomo prime time. how are you doing? >> i'm doing better than i deserve. good to see you. hope you had a good weekend. and welcome to everybody here in the new age of rebirth and renewal. i am chris cuomo and welcome to

prime time. the president can try to rewrite history and cover up and do what he does best, which is cover his own flank. but all americans want to know, all we must demand to know is how the hell is he going to get us out of this. saying time to reopen is not enough when 23,000 lay dead. more than half a million of us are sick. you know i have it. i'm fighting through it. most of us are fighting through it. but how can we expect it to go through this again? how can we be expected to do that? well, that's what they're telling us. if you're going to reopen and you don't have a plan to track cases and keep a safe -- you are damning us to repeat our own ruin. that's a fact. it's the top question that