house coronavirus task force briefing, second day in a row in the rose garden, as opposed to the briefing room. we'll continue to follow all of this. to our viewers, thank you very much for watching. i'm wolf blitzer in "the situation room." "erin burnett "out front" starts now. the president say he will issue new guidelines tomorrow. this as los angeles says the city may not hold any major events until 2021. plus top sciencists warning the white house that antibody tests are currently not liable, which is disturbing for people banking everything on them. and thousands protesting the michigan's governor's stay-at-home orders, many people defying those orders. the governor is my guest. let's go "out front."

good evening. the breaking news, president trump saying tonight he's determined to reopen the economy, against saying he has absolute power over the states. >> we have the right to do whatever we want, but we wouldn't do that. no, we would have the right to close down what they're doing if we want to do that, but we don't want to do that. i don't think there will be any reason to do that, but we have the right to do that. >> this coming just 24 hours after the president retreated from that position. tonight the u.s. reporting more than -- almost 1,907 new deaths across the country so far today, as trump promises he'll unveil new guidelines on opening the economy tomorrow. the death toll rising every single day, doctors and business leaders agree that cannot happen without more testing. business leaders on the phone with the president stressing that today. that is where there is still another huge problem. tonight an alarming new study, warning that people might be the

most infectious before they show symptoms. just to state that obviously that would mean seemingly healthy people are spreading the virus. so can seemingly health with family get tested? no. take for example one of the hoffest spots in america at this time, new jersey, they have opened a saliva test where you get the results back pretty quickly. unless you have a doctor's note you can't get tested unless they're exhibiting symptoms. you drive by a site, the sign says "no symptoms, no test." even though we know asymptomatic people are spreading the virus and people may be most infectious before they have symptoms. opening the economy is not that easy. nick watt is out front live, and another grim milestone where you are this evening, record high deaths there. >> reporter: absolutely, erin, for the second day in a row the peak of our projected death toll

not projected to peak here until this weekend, but planning has already begun for the next phase. what california and the rest of america will look like when reopening does happen, and it doesn't look like maybe we had hoped it would. >> it's difficult to imagine us getting together in the thousands anytime soon. >> reporter: so no ball games, no concerts here in los angeles, says the mayor, maybe for another year. another year. >> it's over when we have a vaccine. you want to use new york state as a lab tire? we are ready, willing and able. >> reporter: but a vaccine could take anywhere from 8 to 18 months. meantime, to reopen at all, we need lots of testing, and there's a potential impasse. >> the governors are supposed to do testing. it's up to the governors. >> we cannot do it without federal support. >> reporter: we'll reopen a bit,

but this summer will still be different to all other summers. >> if we move too quick, we put 50,000 people in yankee stadium, and that's part of why we see a resurgence, that would be the worst of all worlds. >> reporter: servers wearing face masks. >> i think there will be social distancing that's a critical part of our distancing. >> reporter: starting soon new yorkers must carry a mask everywhere they go and wear it -- >> any situation in public where you cannot maintain social distancing. >> reporter: new jersey names and shame stay-home -- >> from loitering in public places to stupid things like holding front lawn cover band concerts. what is encouraging is there's more compliance now than at the beginning of the emergency. >> reporter: new york and new

jersey might have passed the peak. meanwhile, massachusetts has climbed to the third highest case count in the country. >> we'll probably be at the peak ned in about five to seven days and likely the peak number of deaths five to seven days after that. >> reporter: it's estimated that nearly 10,000 health care workers have been infected, and this psa says 30 members have been killed by covid-19. >> do i think they should receive hazard pace or appreciation pay, whatever you want to call it, yes, i do. they're taking more risk every single day. >> reporter: they want grocery clerks designated as extended first responders. that's our new normal, will be for a new while. now, california was one of the first places to do social distancing, and it's paying off, as we just heard dr. birx say we

haven't really seen a peak here in california. there was also a lot of preplanning, also paying off. that entire hospital behind me was set aside just for covid patients. we are reaching what probably will be the worth weekend in california, and there's still plenty of capacity in there. erin? >> all right. which is good, and it's going to make a big difference as we reopen, that people will have the confidence that the system has the capacity to absorb what would be increases. i want to go now to dr. sanjay gupta. trump said some can open may 1st, and some data suggests we past the peak of new cases. when he says there's states ready to open may 1st, do you think that would be prudent? >> i think people have been very clear in what will be necessary, regardless of which state it is before a state can open.

you have beenly nobody wants it to happen in the other states, but whenever we look at the numbers and pictures, we look at an image from two, three weeks ago, so the question is what has happened over the last two to three weeks. that's why we still need to wait a bit. in order for the states to open, you still have to make sure you can test widely, and it's sort of back and forth. you need to make sure you have enough tests. obviously the tests need to be administered at the community level. there's a disconnect right now. could they get it done? that's not surveillance. we need to be in surveillance mode and we're not there yet. >> to this point, we were just saying, when you drive past a drive-in testing facilities in new jersey, it says "no symptoms, no test."

everybody knows asymptomatic people can spread this. i'm just making a definitional point. if you're only testing people with symptoms, you won't find out who is spreading this. it's just definitional, right? >> absolutely. you know know who has it, who is spreading it, and the number, i think, whatever, 619,000 people have tested positive. i don't really know how to contectualize that number. that's obviously the number of people who have tested positive. if the question is how widespread to this coronavirus in the united states, we still don't have a clear idea, and we need that. we've known for sometime, asymptomatic people, never develop symptoms can spread

this. now this study people who go on to develop symptoms, they are the most -- before they start to see sick. before the virus is present, when they get sick, they become less infectious, but you have to test them, you have to trace the contacts. people to remember i wasn't even sick, but who are the people i had contact with before i got sick? you can understand how laborious a task it is, but necessary in order for the states to open. >> that's the tragic truth, that they know, that is the reality for many places. to that effect, sanjay, the states are trying too figure out how to do this, and then in couldle cal, gavin newsom, the

governor talked about things lie disposal menus, and mayor garcetti said he may not allow any sports or concerts until 2021. dr. fauci today was basically saying if you get major league sports back, his implication was they stay in a hotel by themselves and play for empty stadium, but maybe just a tv audience. is that the reality for the foreseeable future? it could be, erin. i get no joy in saying it. there's a bad virus going on. . it's very important, but the one constant is there's a vire that's circulating that's very contagious and lethal. we still don't know how lethal it is. but it's a bad environment. it can make people very sick. that's true. we just need to be honest about that, until there's a vaccine or

there's proof of immunity, you know, from people being exposed and developing antibodies, i think we'll have to do this incrementally. this distancing, either more consistently or even intermittenedly will kin for a while. and we talked to people who are working on that, and they say for the general public by next spring that would be ready. for health care workers, maybe even earlier. we saw that estimate from harvardier, and we did see a cdc demographic breakdown today. there's been a real dearth of data, frankly that we seem to be getting from other countries. what did you see that took out

the most from what we did get from the cdc today? i think it was over 70% of data we stilt don't have. everything you're say is trying to extrapolate data, but you know, we're getting a better idea of the age range of people affected, we kind of had an idea of that, but that's a large demographic. we know that black america is very affected by this. there's places by this where they represent 14, 15% of the population, but developing we know that's significant as well. we also know, and it's becoming completely -- that there was still aspects still coming to light. it's young people seemingly with

no other risk factors that subtly get six and even die of this. there's something else that's missing. something was that the -- but we're still learning a lot about that. >> thank you very much, sanjay. next, antibody tests. you hear it again and against. one of the you have those, you get to go back to work. that's the key to opening the economy, but my next guest warned the white house these tests are not yet reliability. and a race for a vikings. i'll speak to a doctor who is testing on humans, and one of the participants, is also out front. and protests in michigan again the state adhome orders. did the governor go too far? she's "out front" to answer.

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tonight president trump touting a new antibod counter test, saying it will be able to determine whether millions of people have already recovered from coronavirus. . >> it's a great test. the company says these tests could be available to screen up to 20 million people in a matter of weeks. >> 20 million people in a mart of weeks. the fda authorized two other antibody tests. cnn learns the top scientists warned the white house last

month that current testing isn't rye liability. dr. wellman is one of the -- and professor of microbiology and immunology at stanford. i appreciate your time. i know you were on the call. what was yours message that you wanted them to understand about antibody message. >> our message was, in authority, this was a work in progress. a rush could lead to a misunderstanding of what is going on. >> i was reals an m.i. tissues review, and people see it as a panacea, right? give everybody a test, if you have it, you don't have to worry about anything, and if haven't had it, you have to be more careful. this article was talking about concerns to show that you had

had coronavirus, when you hadn'tly hadn't, because overall in the u.s. population, such a small number of people have been likely infected. the higher the infection rate, the more confident we can be that a positive result is real. it magnifies the reports? that's right. the there's two corns. any test is not perfect. then the importance of those error depends on how many you expect to find. if you expect very true positives, you have roughly equal number. the other problem is how to

interpret the meaning of a positive when you expectation is very few people are real. the other problem is we don't know what a positive means in terms of protection. we know if the right controls are done, we know that the ittest will tell us, have you been exposed to this virus? what we don't know is if that means you are immune to this virus and you would be resistant if exposed again. >> drift fauci was asked that today. here's what he said. in general, with viruses we deal with all the time, it almost invariably means you're protected. we don't know that for sure yesterday. a half a year or a year, we need to get experience to know that.

we don't know if and how much. that obviously puts the entire safety that you would kind of get from an antibody positive in question, right? >> i think we're both saying very similar things, but coming from different direction. what we're saying is that this is a very different virus than those that we're accustomed to. we know something about what antibodies mean for viruses we are familiar with. these viruses come out of nature, out of ether, essential and we have to learn. part of the challenge is that humans are completely naive to this virus.

so, yes, there may be andy body. but when you start from zero, you're asking a lot for newfound antibodies, and we just don't know. we will sort it out, but it needs to be sorted out. a lot of people thought, just get these done and we can be off to the races. i think what you're laying ute clearly, it's not nearly that simple. that's important. i appreciate your time. >> not at all. happy to. the race to find a vaccine. someone who is actually a patient right now getting that test. and americans running out of money to purchase basic necessities like life-saving medications.

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tonight the race for a

vaccine. the national institutes of health has developed a vaccine that is now undergoing human trials. emory university is leading the testing. dr. carlos del rio is one of those leading the team. doctor, i appreciate your time tonight. how is your trial going so far? >> thank you, erin, for having me. it's going well. we're only in what we call the face one of a vaccine study. phase one is where you test for safety and reactive-genicity. you're making sure the vaccine is safe and doesn't produce a lot of local or systemic reaction. so a lsmall amount of healthy volunteers are being tested here and also in washington state. we'll serve them and see if they're doing okay. if that goes okay, then the

vaccine moves into what we call a face two study. that's where you take the vaccine and giving it to more people, either by gift them a placebo. and then -- if those that got the vaccine an that's the i have indication -- because that's when you know when your vaccine work or not. i know you're early on in the process. how good do you feel about this? >> i feel great in the sense that, you know, it's only three mondays that we described this new virus. now we have over 70 vaccines being developed and three of them are already in clinical trials, including this one? that is absolutely unprecedented. that really talk about what science is doing, how rapid science is evolving. i feel good that, you know, there's 70 vaccines out there. i also work in hiv, and we don't

have 70 vaccines for hiv in the field. so it gives me hope we will be able to develop a vaccine and now when i say relatively short time, i'm speaking in vaccine terms. that may be a year and a half or two years. if everything goes well. >> if everything goes absolutely well, i am hoping by the fall of 2021, it's not only -- it's producing millions of doses and distributing those doses. that's going to take some time. >> so one question before we go. this is just something i've been wondering, viruses obviously mutate. with he know this mute yates. people are able to determine, you know, the kind of trail of the virus by its mutation path. for example, there's a difference between someone who had a virus originating in

europe in new york city versus one in a originated in china, when it comes to a coronavirus, this coronavirus, covid-19. does that -- or no? >> it does not. a vaccine is targeted to a very specific, it's what it uses to the respiratory cells. that is a very conservative region. it's like saying the key to the house doesn't change. you may change the painting, the mutation is changing the painting on the door, but the key is still the same. the vaccine is directed to that key. therefore, i feel fine that no matter the mutation, that region continues to be the same. that's important to hear. i appreciate your time, dr. del rio, thank you very much and for your optimism. as the doctor was saying he feels good about it, i want to go to shawn doyle, who is in dr. del rio's trial so, sean, you

know, obviously people heard what and there are risks of the possibility. this is when they find out, what has been your experience so far? >> that's correct. i'm happy to say, farce my participation so far, it's just been like getting a flu shot. so, you can have some mild adverse events that occur such as an elevated temperature, maybe some pain at the site of injection. some potential adverse consequences such as an flaflac is, but for me i've been feeling great. what's the time frame fof you're -- to determine how they would term an adverse effect? >> the lengths of this trial will be roughly 14 months.

after getting the first vaccine dose, the follow-up was really continual and fantastic. so the lead investigators, including dr. carlos del rio and the nurses running the trial, did a great job following up with the participants to make sure there weren't any serious side effects. so you volunteered to test the ebola vaccine. you yourself obviously an expert. i know your friends and families verdict concerns. why diagnose decide to do it? what motivates you to do this and to take this risk to see if this works? >> yes, so when you're starting -- or testing an unknown treatment like this, you never really know what's going to happen. for these types of viruses, though, where there aren't good preventative measures in place, the development of that vaccine is really critical for ensuring

that the virus is contained. so for me personally, i lope that my participation and other folks' participation in this trial helps to provide potential benefits at a population level, to show first of all this vaccine is safe and potentially that it's effective in reducing or preventing transmission. we have to have some tools to be able to fight this virus right now. all right. sean, i appreciate your time. and i know a lot of people, many people, everyone watching is grateful you're willing to do what you're doing right now. thank you. >> thank you very much. and i want to bring in dr. jonathan reiner. he of course advised george w. bush white house team for eight years. i've been warning on the show against moving away from social distancing until we have a vaccine. look, at the sounds like he's ago good as he feels. he feels like this is real, this

is what he does for an entire career. he says with all of that, he said the fall of 2021 to early 2021, with sum remember opening still need to stay in place that long? >> after 9/11, people thought nothing would be the same. nothing really was ever the same, we learned to live with a certain threat, so we will learn to live -- the current high level of viral infections, and, you know, the or risks number of deaths will drop out of. we'll have low-level virus, probably continually, maybe at very low levels over the summer,

and maybe then spiking again in the fall or winter. we're going to learn a lot from this. so some elements of social distancing have to remain with us. i think masks are here to stay. i think we'll learn how to get back to work. people who will telework will, but we'll have a wile before we have a vaccine. a vaccine typically takes a decade. now you're hearing multiple companies and scientists saying we're going to engineer a vaccine in 18 months. it's really spectacular, but until we get there. we'll have to do less scientific things to get by and get back to a functional society. >> you know, there's some people who say we don't have an hiv vaccine years later, but people who look at that and say, gosh, you had a lot of great minds dedicated to that.

is there a risk of that now? you say no. why? the hiv problem was special, because that virus didn't incite a robust immune response. so what a vaccine really does is sort of trick the body into believing it's infected by the real virus, and having the body produce an immune response to that, to that stimulus, but the hiv virus doesn't incite that kind of immune response by the body. it attacks the immune cells. so it's created a whole different set of challenges. i don't think that the analogy between the hiv virus and this particular coronavirus is necessarily apt. >> which is great to hear, and i know people hear 18 to 24 months. it's jarring and upsetting in many ways, but i think as you want and dr. del rio says, it is

quite spectacular. thank you very much. >> my pleasure. next, the government still lulls checks are going out, but for some families the relief may already be too late. michigan's governor facing protests and lawsuits tonight over strict guidelines. the michigan governor is my guest, next. i just love hitting the open road and telling people that liberty mutual customizes your insurance, so you only pay for what you need! [squawks] only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪

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two senior treasury officials tell "the washington post" that adding the president's name could delay the delivery. the i.r.s. and the president says that's not the case. for many americans, that seems crazy to delay the check if that's going to happen. the checks in any case are already too little too late. >> maybe three days left. >> she counts her days by the insulin. >> when you turn it upsidedown, there's not much left.

>> what happens when that's gone? >> i'm very worried i will end up in a hospital bed sitting next to someone with coronavirus, i contract said virus, and then it ends up killing me. >> reporter: already rationing hers insulin since losing her jobs. this week is the crossroads for her and michael shockey, whose life depends on life-sieving prescriptions. >> so this is my last injection. >> reporter: a two-time cancer survivor and -- what is the co-pay? >> $500 total if i got all these. with taxes, yeah, about $500. >> reporter: he was able to afford these drugs by managing a chain of new york bakeries. when the coronavirus hit manhattan last month, he was laid off. now he's rationing what he has

left without knowing when his expected stimulus money will come in. >> each day just gets scarier. >> reporter: how desire is this crisis? >> i think life and death for some people. my fear is if i'm going to cause long-term damage, people are living check to check when they're working. what do you think when that income goes away? you think they'll be able to survive? >> reporter: he took to twitter begging for help along with so many others, an essential employees rationing seizure meds under the stimulus check comes in. a single mother who needs prescription for her family for each winnows supplying is a deadly game of chance. >> i wake up about 3:00 a.m. with a blood sure garr that's about 400, 420. >> reporter: her levels are four times higher than average. she says it's not if she goes to the emergency room, but when. >> i won't have no choice. my body will go es into diabetic

ketoacidosis. she won't get a stimulus check. so lie tho like thousands of others she won't qualify. she is on her own. >> $100 might not be that much to you, but it could be my saving grace for tomorrow. >> reporter: michael shockey, who you heard in ha story was watching president trump's white house briefing tonight. he says this issue of the president ace name on the stimulus check, angry isn't the right word. he uses the wort "hurt." he says americans are hurting, and then all of this, erin needs to be about helping americans. thank you very much. protests in michigan over the tough new state at-home guidelines. plus jeanie on the search for a substitute to sports.

new tonight, on lansing to protest the governor's current stay-at-home rules. resumes which include bans on all gatherings, travel to in-state vacation homes and the use of motor boats. also out front now, gretchen whitmore. there are critics who say your order goes too fab, it's unconstitutional. why do you think the measures are needed? >> let's look at the fact we have the third highest people who have died from covid-19 and we are not the third biggest state in the nation. we have a unique challenge here

in michigan, and it requires a unique solution. we have to be really aggressive. our hospitals were at capacity very early on. we know that covid-19's been here longer than it was ever detected. and so we have to be really aggressive here in order to save lives. >> so here's what one woman who attended the protest works in health care. here is what she had to say, governor. >> i truly believe that restrictions should have been put on the people that are sick, that are coming down with the illness. i truly believe there are some people at a higher risk than others. us people that are at a lower risk i feel we should have continued with our lives and continued working. >> so what's your response when you hear that? >> the fact of the matter is covid-19 is a virus that there's no cure, there's no vaccine. it's incredibly contagious, and it's deadly. the worst part is you can carry

it for a week without showing a symptom. system people are completely asymptomatic. it could manifest in a fever or sore muscles for one person in the household could be deadly for another, and that's precisely why everyone needs to do their part. this virus has been spreading by people who didn't even know they have it. every time you touch that, think that covid-19 stays active for 72 hours, our doctors are telling us. that's three days of people touching that one gas pump. a nurse going to her shift touches it, a food worker touches it. you've taken out people who are part of the life-sustaining work that needs to be done in a global bpandemic. everyone has to do their work. >> we have video today, got whitner, from outside the steps, people talking. i want to make it clear most

people were in their cars, but a lot of people standing around, some not wearing masks. our reporter was there and said a lot of people were not social distancing. dozens upon dozens as he was there. do you think that the protest put people at risk today? >> absolutely. absolutely. i can give you one clear example how that is. it was a car protest and they were backed up to in front of a hospital. there was an ambulance that could not get into the bay for ten minutes. they absolutely impacted people's lives today and threatened people's lives. and we'll never know the precise number of covid-19 cases that come as a result of the gathering, but we know there will be some. there are definitely people asymptomatic, functioning in society, that continue to spread the disease. we're seeing continuous positive tests and precisely events like this that contribute to how long we're going to have to be under the stay-at-home order they were

protesting. >> president trump said tonight it's up to governors to be responsible for testing. he said he could take strong action against them if he didn't like the job you're doing. that he could do that. he also back and forth the past couple days has been saying he has the power to do whatever he wants. you, the governors, don't. he backed off that yesterday. but today, again, when it came to who's in charge, you the governors or him, he said him. here he is. >> we have the right to do whatever we want, but we wouldn't do that. we would have the right to close down what they're doing if we want to do that. but we don't want to do that. i don't think there will be any reason to do that. but we have the right to do that. >> does he have the right to do that? i mean, he didn't two days ago. are you surprised he's now saying, again, he has the right to tell you what to do? >> listen, my responsibilities and duties and tools at my disposal as governor don't

depend on one interpretation one another and another the next. you've seen governors on both sides of the aisle take action necessary to protect the people in our states. we will do the same when it is time to re-engage sectors of our economy. our powers are inherent in our offices. it's not something debatable or opinion, it's just fact. and what we all need to remember is that we are not one another's enemy. the enemy is covid-19. we all have to be on the same page to beat this enemy and that's precisely what our focus is on as governors across the country. >> governor gretchen whitmer, i appreciate your time. thank you. >> thank you. next, jeanne on how sports fans are handling the coronavirus cancellations. ♪ oh, oh, oh, ozempic®! ♪ (announcer) once-weekly ozempic® is helping many people with type 2 diabetes like james lower their blood sugar. a majority of adults who took ozempic® reached an a1c under 7 and maintained it.

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>> reporter: baseball is not even a shadow of its former self. while fans pine for the crack of the bat, the ball in the glove, the bleachers are bleak, the stadiums empty. >> but we have to get our sports back. i'm tired of watching baseball games that are 14 years old. >> reporter: but if the boston red sox organist can't play at fenway park -- >> a built-in mullet. >> reporter: why not try to take us out of our misery with "take me out to the ball game." ♪ streamed live daily from josh's living room. he then takes requests. remember the movie "dodgeball" and it's parity of espn 8, the ocho. >> if it's almost a sport, we have it here. >> reporter: espn moved up its homage to that parity and featured the stupid robot fighting league. >> really an exciting battle. >> reporter: and the cherry pit spitting competition right down to the slow motion replay of an

almost 47 foot pit spit. actor john krasinski's youtube show some good news. commentators joe buck voiced over videos, not of major league pitching but a woman pitching laundry into her machine. >> and now watch this right off the face. that's a little bit of quarantine frustration right there. >> reporter: "s&l" made fun by watching matches burn. >> and it's out! >> reporter: and popcorn pop. >> oh, my god, from out of nowhere this is why we watch sports. the mets' public address announcer will now announce you. >> number 13, michael. >> reporter: a legendary howard cosell's grandson. >> this is a way to bring the ballpark home. >> reporter: giving fans a customized introduction for a little comic relief. >> the relief pitcher, number

15, jeanne moos! >> reporter: i don't have a ball let alone a ball game. >> and thank you for joining us. anderson continues our coverage now. and good evening, everyone. today the death toll from coronavirus rose above 28,000 and state governors across the country crap ld with the question, when, how and to what extent they could try to re-establish some kind of normalcy. today the state governors also learned something about the president of the united states because once again today the president spent a large part of what has become a substitute for his political rallies the coronavirus task force briefing he spent it boasting his accomplishments. accomplishments he's yet to accomplish and blame. he's eager to