can a patchwork work? i'm michael smerconish in philadelphia. catastrophe has a way of suspending ideological conflict in the modern era, 9/11 brought us together. in 2008 when the bush administration needed to bail out the banks, ideology went out the window. and recently when coronavirus showed signs of crippling the economy, the senate mustered a 96-0 vote for relief. sadly, the cease-fire, the kumbaya never seems to last, and so it was this week, as john harris wrote in politico magazine, ideology hasn't been suspended. it has been forcibly suppressed

in inevitably will come roaring back sometimes in highly toxic ways. last week, i worried here that wearing masks would become the latest red state/blue state divide. consider in michigan, protesters gathered in michigan to protest the slow of the spread of coronavirus. and this image from ohio the angry crowd at the window of the state house, it went viral. in utah protesters held signs that said resist like it's 1776. and america will never be a socialist country. a reopened north carolina facebook page quickly attracted 42,000 members. even in new york, some residents took to the streets on thursday, despite the empire state being the epicenter of the virus. yesterday, in texas, governor greg abbott encouraged state retailers to begin operating next friday as retail to go. customers can order items ahead of time. and take curbside delivery.

on friday, the president fired off a series of tweets, liberate minnesota, liberate michigan, liberate virginia among them. ground zero has been michigan. governor gretchen whitmer added more restrictions. you can't travel to a second home you that own. you can't take out a boat or jet ski on the water but kayaks are fine. she also ordered all large stores to cordoned off the garden centers as part of an activity of not necessary items. and it doesn't include lottery tickets and liquor, or cannabises. michigan state government stripping powers from the governor which she said she'll veto. likewise in pennsylvania, the republican controlled legislature passed an attempt to overturn the restrictions posed by democratic governor tom wolf.

here state wine and liquor stores closed. beer distributors are open. you can't buy a book but you can buy a gun. golf is a no-no. real estate agencies are closed even though people have signed contracts and they had can't move in. in florida, the wwe, which initially was closed is now deemed essential as part of a group of sports and entertainment media with a national audience. the events will continue without an inperson audience, of course. in nevada, las vegas mayor caroline goodman pushed back against the state's shutdown saying this -- >> this shutdown has become one of total insanity in my opinion, for there is no backup of data, as to why we are shut down. from the start. no plan in place how to move through the shutdown or how to even come out of it.

>> friday, when the president was asked about the lockdown protests, he said this -- >> the governments what they've done is too much. these are people expressing their views. i see where they are, i see the way they're working. they seem to be very responsible people to me. but, you know, they've been treated a little bit rough. >> the president had just announced guidelines for the nation's governors regarding the restoration of the american society. these guidelines were a reversal from his stance earlier in the week when he declared that the president's power over state responsibilities to coronavirus is, quote, absolute. instead, we saw a tacit acknowledgement that it's the governors who will now be calling the shots in the days, weeks and months ahead. that's probably the best outcome where government often functions best where it's closest to the people. but this ensures we're about to see a patchwork response to a virus that didn't respect international borders and will likewise transmit between states if everyone doesn't act

responsibly. it remains to be seen whether the governors are going to demand the same degree of rigor from their medical advisers in justifying continued restrictions on personal liberty and economic well-being as they demand from their citizens in complying with the restrictions. our governor is going to diligently examine each restriction to determine if it's still justified and only maintain those restrictions that are clearly necessary. perhaps a patchwork process is akin to what winston churchill once said about democracy. the worst approach, except for all the others. i want to know what you think. go to my web slig slight @smerconish.com, answer the question, restoration of american society should take place state by state, regionally or nationally. joining me the senator from the great state of minnesota recent presidential candidate amy klobuchar. senator, thank you so much for being here. >> thank you, michael. >> first things first, how's your husband? he's been fighting covid-19?

>> well, he's doing so much better. he was out of the hospital after coughing up blood and having a really bad case of pneumonia and low oxygen, and just he's a ton better. i learned, michael, to follow the rules. he didn't go to things even when he felt a little sick. and he actually would have exposed people at his work and other places. and he didn't. secondly, you know, you can't be there, you can't hold their hand. you can't hug the health care workers that are taking care of them. we all know for some of the worst cases it's their health care workers who are holding up their phone when the family is trying to say their last words to their loved one. it's a very horrific disease. >> godspeed and thanks for the update. your governor just announced he's reopening bait shops, outdoor shooting ranges, marina services where people are supposed to adhere to proper

distancing and other measures meant to stop community spread. but like other states, minnesota doesn't have enough tracking capacity yet to figure out where things stand. what reservations, if any, do you have about that move? >> well, i trust what our governor is doing here. he cares so much about the people of minnesota. tim walls, he was in congress, a veteran, and he has a lot of faith in what he's doing. everyone is not going to be happy with everything that the governors do. i think it was andrew cuomo who said, sure, i know i'm not making you happy. if you're mad, call me. you know what, does the president of the united states say that? no. he starts out his political career at the republican convention by saying i alone know how to fix this. then the next thing you know, when we have a crisis, he says he's backup to the governors. then he flips the other way and says he's in charge, now he says which is correct under the constitution that it's up to the governors. i think it's okay is that we have different governors making different decisions in different states but let me tell you what

isn't okay. and that is that there was never a national strategy for testing. and there was never a national strategy to prepare our country. this is a global pandemic. a national pandemic. and if we had not lost those precious months when donald trump was worrying about his rallies and other things, we could have been in a better, better shape right now. for the testing. and that would have helped governors, it would have helped businesses. everyone, to gradually reopen. because if you have the testing, as we've seen around the world, you're in a much better place to control those hot spots. and especially when we start seeing drugs and other things and promising therapies, you want to be able to know where the hot spots are and immediately attack them. >> i'm worried about our election. what went on in wisconsin a week ago was a bit of a cluster. how do we ensure that doesn't happen nationally in november? >> that answer is more

straightforward, michael. that answer is about making it safe for people to vote. so they don't have to choose between their health and voting. i will never forget that image, and i don't think any american will, of those people in wisconsin bravely asserting their right to vote in garbage bags and masks when did didn't have to happen. and one of the most interesting things in that case, the voters voted. a lot voted by mail. and that is your answer. make it easier for people to vote by mail. that's the bill i lead with ron wyden, we got $400 million. we need much more to make this big scale for the country. you see republican governors, republican secretaries of state rolling this out all over the country. they need the funding because they're going to to have postage, new workers, and at the same time, making sure the polls are open 20 days in advance across the country. making the training of new poll workers a priority. all of this can happen.

they just had a successful election in south korea, despite having the pandemic there. you can do this. but you have to have a will. and i'm just excited that there's growing support across the country for this. and wisconsin is the symbol of this should never happen again. by the way, you know who voted by mail? donald trump. he requested the ballot at 1600 pennsylvania avenue so why couldn't those people have the same right? >> to vote in florida. >> uh-huh. >> understood. is there not a tenth amendment issue here? isn't it the business of the states to set their elections? written l wheren lies the authority. >> sure, it's the state. that's why they have their own ballots, there's all kinds of things but this is an election in the middle of a pandemic. almost every secretary of state wants funding for early mail-in

voting. two, all we're doing is setting standards nationally. think about it two days early for polling locations. a lot of republican governments are already starting to waive requirements and do that anyway. number three, making sure we break down some of these barriers. in six states you have to get a notary or two witnesses in order to get a mail-in ballot. 16 states you have to get an excuse for a mail-in ballot, but four states including a republican have already wavered those standards. we have to get minimum standards for the entire country and that's what senator wyden and i now have. >> there's a word that the trump /pence campaign is using, march ve harvesting. where they're asking people to pony up money. we must get rid of ballot

harvesting. will you respond to the criticism that mail-in voting is a heightened subjectivity to fraud? >> you know what, maybe president trump should ask some of his own republican officials such as the republican secretary of state in washington state who has made it very clear that this is a safe way to vote. and in fact, you have paper ballots when you have by mail. something we don't have in a few of our states right now. ask the governors, republican governors in maryland and in new hampshire and in ohio, that want to transform their elections into mail-in ballots. i don't think he's attuned -- i think he's using it to raise money for his base but when he does that, he's messing with people's health. i think the best answer is how the people in wisconsin voted in that judge's race. they were mad. they saw through it. they saw that the republican legislature was not just messing around politically with their right to vote, they were

literally putting their lives at risk. and look what happened. i think there's going to be a huge backlash if they don't help us with funding for this. >> i think there's a perception on the republican side of the aisle that this benefits democratic candidates. but the data, when you delve into it much more complicated than that and it's not a clear answer? >> you know what the states are that have 90% or 85%. states like utah. that is not exactly a blue state, although we're doing better and better there. states like arizona has actually a high rate, not the highest, but a very high rate of people voting by mail. colorado which is a purple state. they have nearly all voting by mail. now, let me make clear, you still want to have polls open for people with disabilities, for people that maybe forget to get their ballot in. there's all kinds of things but the less people you have congregating at the polls, the

better off we are all the are. >> senator klobuchar, senator warren was asked a direct question this week and gave a direct answer, if asked would you accept a position on vice president joe biden's ticket? what is your answer? >> my answer is the same as the very beginning. right now, i'm focused on my state, focused on our country leading the efforts to vote until november. i'm not going engage in hypotheticals. i know one thing for sure. joe biden was a great vice president. he knows what it takes to be a good vice president. he's going to make that decision. >> i'll put that down as a maybe. thank you for being here. >> thank you, it was great to be on, michael. >> what are your thoughts? tweet me @smerconish or the facebook beigpage. what do we have from twitter, i think, as for the protesters who are saying that we will never be a socialist country, i would like to ask them if they would

be returning their stimulus checks? look, folks are pent-up, you can find one that is objectionable in that ground and characterize that group. i get it. my commentary at the outset was simply designed to illustrate what i fear is coming which is a patchwork approach that the virus is is not going to expect. but i don't have a better solution. i think it's probably the best we can do and hope it works. i want to know what you think at this hour. go to smerconish.com and answer, restoration of american society should take place state by state, regionally or nationally. up ahead, whose name should be atop the democratic ticket with joe biden? i was just asking that of senator amy klobuchar. well, michigan governor zbrec n gretchen whitmer has been. >> we're tired not being able to buy what we need.

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michigan governor gretchen whitmer has been having a moment in the spotlight her name is floated as possible vp nominee for joe biden. michigan, of course, one of the three battleground states that trump carried in 2016. as of late, her response to coronavirus has caused backlash. thousands of cars came on michigan this week as four county sheriffs informed residents they would not be, quick, strictly enforcing

witmer's new order. and say while we understand her desire to protect the public, we question some restrictions that she has imposed. michigan has the fourth highest number of coronavirus cases in the country. but the vast majority are in the detroit area. some state residents think the strict policies are who broad and in overreach. so did she take it too far? "the washington post" head line is suggesting that. gretchen whitmer may have taken herself out of the veepstakes. joining us to discuss it who knows the state well, former michigan governor jennifer granholm. governor, did she extend herself too far in this regard? >> no, she's obviously been consulting with health care experts. she's not going to do things that are restrictive just to do them. she doesn't want to do them but she wants to protect people of the state, all regions of the state, democrats and republicans, and as she has said, this has an an end date to

it. they will phase in opening up but she's not going to do it when people's lives are at risk. that protest, michael, the fact that people that came to that protest blocked ambulances to the hospital in their effort that they were handing out bare handed to children, candy, bare handed to bare handed, that are putting people at risk. that selfishness must stop. they can say they have freedom all they want. they have freedom, but other people have freedom to live, or should. and they shouldn't be inflicting or putting others at risk. >> restrictions make for great sound bite to talk about, say, kayaking versus jet skiing. when you actually scrutinize each one of them can they be defended? for example, i know if i kayak, i'm alone and i don't need fuel. i'm not going to gas up. if i jetsky, cooper sooner or l

i'm going to need fuel. have you thought them through on a granular basis? >> i think that's why you have that zrikz. from her point, she's saying your germs last on a gas pump, your virus lasts for 72 hours. all the people who came to protest, if they filled up, who are they putting at risk? completely unsuspecting folks in their community, including the people who may work at the gas station, who may be lower wage people. they're not thinking. she has a very granular list and i think very well thought through. and she's going to stand by it because 9 activities that she has at least circumstance come scribed in this are not activities to living. they may be recreational. they may be fun. you may not be able to get your yard landscaped or your harir done, but are those necessities? i don't think. >> governor, i love mackinaw island.

i also know to get to mackinaw island is a struggle and a hell of a long drive to get the ferry, say, if you fly into detroit. this geography argument is one i want you to respond to. he said whitmer's decision was particularly tone-deaf, more than 80% of the state's deaths and confirmed cases were in the detroit metropolitan area as of thursday morning, that share is higher when counties close to detroit are added to the count. yet the order applied to the entire state even though residents in most regions face little risk from the disease. no wonder people drove from all over michigan to tie up lansing traffic on wednesday. doesn't he have a point? >> the point is that there's been 3,222 people who have died, probably more as we have been talking, and they do come from all over the state.

believe me, when you have people from rural areas coming from lansing to protest with no protection at all and handing out candies with bare hands they have just brought that potential back to their regions. people, i understand it's frustrating to stay at home. we're all at home. i mean, the point is it's about saving lives. and michigan is on a climb like this. and every person who is infected infects potentially 40 other people who then turn to infect thousands more. so if there's a county in michigan that hasn't had the covid death, thank god. and let's keep it that way. and the point is this is the temporary solution. >> quick final answer, if you don't mind. if you are joe biden and you are quarantined in wilmington, paying attention to gretchen whitmer in michigan, you are thinking what? >> i'm thinking she's got -- she's got cojones, and i'm

thinking she's strong and clear about saving lives and that's what's most important. >> stay safe. thank you so much for being here. >> you bet. what do we got, kathryn. from facebook, i think. more social media. roaring in. none of us elected dictators. mayors and governors shouldn't have the authority to shut everything down. we will never know if the shutdown ever really happened. hold on, tony wait a minute. mayors and governors shouldn't have the authority. so no one would have the authority. so then we're going to, in the midst of a pandemic just leave it up to individuals? then how do we protect -- i hate to say this, but everybody is using the analogy of peeing in the pool, there i said it. once somebody does it, you can't stay in the deep end and avoid it. so, by your logic, we're going to trust that nobody pees in the pool. can't have that.

jeopardizes all of pus. go to my question @smerconish answer the question, restoration of american society should take place state by state, regionally or nationally. up ahead, donald trump thought about hosting a talk radio program from the white house including taking calls. ru rush limbaugh said he'd be great at the job. to me, this brings everything full circle. come on, no no n-n-n-no-no only discover has no annual fee on any card. and my side super soft? n-n-n-no-no with the sleep number 360 smart bed, it can, with your sleep number setting. but can it help keep me asleep? absolutely, it senses your movements and automatically adjusts to keep you both comfortable. sleep number. this is not a bed. it's proven quality sleep, from $999.

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donald trump, talk radio host? news broke this week that the president himself recently pitched the idea of broadcasting a daily two-hour talk daily radio program from the white house to address america about the virus a allowing callers to dial in. then he apparently decided against it. how come? according to "the new york times," mainly because he didn't want to step on the toes of

longtime supporter rush limbaugh. rule remember, of course, that the president thinks so highly of rush that at his february state of the union address he awarded him with the medal of freedom. rush returned the compliment by endorsing the idea on his program saying trump is one of the few who could fill my shoes with proper training and proper instruction, i can see that. i think there would be nobody better to fill my shoes than donald trump. i find it once again very pleasantly satisfying that a man who owns television wants to be on radio. joining me now is brian rosenwall, he literally earned a ph.d. studying talk radio. he wrote the definitive book called "talk radio's america how an industry took over a political party." he said this about the premise of ryan's book? >> all of the books about talk radio, how many of them totally

miss either the history of the modern era, and then what what is happened since then, but this guy kind of gets it. his name is brian rosenwald, he was on cnn saturday. so nobody saw this. >> brian, i have to laugh at the last line. i mean, people lose sight of the fact he's got a sense of humor. that's part of the way he has succeeded as an entertainer. even if he's taking a shot at me. >> that's right. michael, he's always joking around. i mean, i was looking yesterday, he's got joe biden plugs in rush speak. presumably talking about his hairlines. deborah birx is the scarf queen. she's always joking around trying to put on a good show. >> in earning a ph.d. on talk radio, you had to listen to a

lot of bloviaters like me. does donald trump have the chops to suck as a talk radio host? >> absolutely. we see it every night, michael. he does this press conferences and, granted, they leave a lot of us angry, they sound all over the map and things. but here's the thing, you never know what you're going to get. and every night there is some sort of something that sets social media aflame. and that is a headline for the next day. he's -- you almost have to tune in. and that's what a good host does. he reaches through the radio. he grabs you and says, stay right there. sit in your car, don't, you know, get out, because you could miss something. >> if he were to do this, it would complete the story. it would bring full circle the whole tale of how he was elected. because as you know, he dipped his toe back in the water in 1988, didn't run in '98, '02, et

cetera, et cetera, largely because you argue in your book the table had been set by a politicization of the media. >> that's absolutely right, michael. if you don't get rush limbaugh, if you don't get talk radio, i don't think you get donald trump. the political norms in 1988 were such that you couldn't have donald trump, all of the comments where he gets himself in trouble every single day. the liberty tweets yesterday. things like that, that was no-go in 1988. now, it fits the style of talk radio, entertaining news, being incendiary, voicing the sentiments that this base feels but don't feel like they can say. that's what donald trump does so well and that's what talk radio does so well. >> and, look, so that people are clear, your book is really an analysis of the growth of this industry and the influence that it had.

it's not a hate job on rush. you speak glowingly of his entertainment chops but you do acknowledge and argue that it's had a destructive influence on america's dialogue. >> i think it has. and, yes, folks on the left who hate rush limbaugh, who see him as, you know, just a toxic force in our politics need to understand he's a lot like jon stewart, where people on the right felt the same way about jon stewart. but he entertains millions -- you know, he entertained millions on the left and center and some on the right. but we do need to understand that, you know, part of what's gone on with rush limbaugh with talk radio is, first of all, the running down of the mainstream media. and the running down of experts. and a at moment when maybe more than any more in my life we need people to trust the dr. birxes and hadr. faucis, and we need tm

to trust the experts. and people doubt the mainstream media. and they're worried that people are just out to destroy donald trump. so that's toxic. and it also convinced us that we are farther apart than we actually are. that we don't have shared american values that it's just a bunch of liberal elites in mainstream media, in mainstream media, in colleges and universities in the entertainment field who just want to destroy their values and you can see politics versus war. this is driven by the media. >> hey, brian, final thought, there is precedent, i established it, for doing a live talk radio program from the white house, with a president who takes calls. i interviewed president obama twice. once in the oval office. one in the diplomatic reception room. 30 minutes, the phones were open, and he had no idea -- there was no scripting. there was screening.

americans were able to call in and ask the president whatever they wanted. i will tell you, i've extended this same invitation to president trump who thus far has been unwilling to do it. anyway, thank you. your book is terrific. >> my pleasure, michael. always happy to be with you. let's check in on your tweets and facebook comments. what do we have. from facebook, i think. talk show, talk show as potus, where would he find the time? talk show host potus, where would he find the time? well, you could make the same argument relative to the press briefing. i can tell you, we watched -- my god, in my house, probably for 90 minutes. for 90 minutes. so in the same time that he's dedicating to those briefings, he can make the time. i want to remind you answer the survey question @smerconish.com this hour. can't wait to see how this turns out. restoration of american society should take place state by

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delivered directly to your door. or save 10% when you buy online and pick up in store... now with curbside pickup. shop petsmart.com or download our mobile app today. social distancing is affecting every aspect of american life and government. all the way up to and including the supreme court. united states. what's the pandemic changing about how the justices deal with cases and which ones are on the docket that are most significant? joining now is jeffrey rosen the president and chief executive officer of the national constitution center. he's the author most recently of a great book called "conversations with rbg, ruth bader ginsburg, on live, liberty and the law." jeffrey, what are is the usual practice? they told argument it's on

monday, tuesday, wednesday, release transcripts and you correct me if i'm wrong, but the audio doesn't come until a couple days later? >> that's almost always the case. there have been a couple of big cases where they released the audio two hours after the argument. but never before in u.s. history have they done live streaming from the audio, which the court says they will now do for 11 cases that will be argued in may. so this is historic. and for the first time ever, citizens will have an opportunity to hear supreme court arguments live. >> so, they are publicity shy is my point. because by the time the audio comes out on a friday from a monday argument, we've all moved on five times over with the news cycle. and although they're going to allow us, we hope, to hear these arguments in realtime, as they do them telephonically, they are a step shy of zoom, which all of our kids are now being educated on. >> no question about it.

someone said the justices don't want to have zoom oral argument because they don't want to become a "saturday night live" skit. but the fact that they're going to have live arguments at all is unprecedented. still, it's unclear how it's going to work. they're all going to be on the telephone. how will the lawyers know who is asking them the questions? will the chief justice call on them in seniority, which they don't do? and what happens if the audio -- there will be technical glitches and all sorts of challenges. but it's amazing it's going to happen at all. >> so, it's funny to me, because at the point where you were explaining there could be technical glitches, you faded out on us. let me ask this question, what are among the cases we should be paying very close attention to? i know i'm interested in the

so-called fakeleceless elector cases? >> yes, the faceless elector cases there are two them. the state laws that prohibit members of the electoral college for voting for someone other than the candidate they're pledged for constitutional. and those could hit the original states, the conservative justices who know they're supposed to deliver independently. there are also two interesting sets 6 cases. there are two cases involving subpoenas to president trump efforts to get his financial records from congress and the manhattan district attorney. and two really important cases involving religious quality. can teachers in catholic schools be sued for administration dund the ministerial exemption. and can lawyers refuse to provide contraception coverage

because of moral. interesting arguments involving subpoenas and other arguments. >> jeffrey rosen, head of the national constitution center. thank you so much for being here. >> thank you. >> can i just say how disappointed i am that they didn't use this as a means of timely bringing cameras into the courtroom, allowing us virtually to watch what goes on? my premise is this, if i have a right to walk into a courtroom and take a seat and watch the proceedings, which we do in the supreme court of the united states, then they should be televising the same. i can't help but thinkinged that o.j. case sort of ruined for the rest of us but we should not evaluate whether we want cameras in the courtroom based on lance ito alone. that's my view. still to come, your best and worst facebook tweets and comments. go vote at smerconish.com. this is the question, restoration of american society should take place state by

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responded to the survey question at smerconish.com this hour. restoration of american society should take place state by state, regionally or nationally? survey says. what do we got here? wow, look at that, man. nearly 18,000 votes cast. state by state 42%. regionally 41%. if i do a little ciphering here, that gives me 83%, versus nationally 17%.

really interesting. that's what we're getting. the plurality, state by state and some regionally. what else do we have? what came in social media wise this hour? with some states being opened what stops a resident who may be asymptomatic or pre-symptomatic from an unopened state travel to an open state? isn't there a risk from that traveler? there is. how about if you live in a border state where the policies differ and i want to go to dinner, what's going to stop you from going to dinner in the neighboring state because you have cabin fever? as i said at the outset, i'm not criticizing the decision made here, i don't see an alternative. i think it's problematic if people don't behave responsibly. the virus didn't respect international roboundaries and won't respect state boundaries. that's not me saying therefore this isn't the way to go because

i'm not comfortable seeing a national standard that crushes the economy. what else? i'm a michigande and i'm an rn, i support gov whitmer, but why can't i paint my house but i can buy lottery and booze and weed? i went through these. if you analyze them in a case by case basis, i think some of them are justified. like the kayak versus the jet ski, i kind of get it. then again, when i hear that the gardening centers were cordoned off, i'm planting a victory garden, wouldn't we like people appella planting vegetables right now? the pea in the smoke, smoke in

the airplane analogy applies. you can't have one policy on this side of the county line and a different one on that. that's true, dr. langer. didn't we learn as kids, you can't stay in the deep end if there's something bad going on in the shallow end. i'm going to leave the question up, vote at smerconish.com. have a great week and we'll see you next weekend. nothing strong. nothing gentler. nothing lasts longer. flonase sensimist. 24 hour non-drowsy allergy relief her skin could actually soak up wetness that her diaper doesn't. that's why i use pampers. pampers traps and locks wetness away keeping baby's skin drier and healthier. the health of your baby's skin starts with the pampers they're in. no uh uh, no way

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i want to wish you a good morning and thank you so much for sharing our time with us, it's good to have you, saturday, april 18th, i'm christi paul. >> i'm victor blackwell you are in the cnn "newsroom." this morning, at least four states may soon open back up. that's if the governors choose but several others may need more testing and time. >> former cdc director dr. tom friedm friedman, says the current number of tests, less than 50,000 a day are not enough. the white house disagreeing with that, vice president pence s saying there are enough tests to reopen states under the guidelines. >> governors are trying to figure out when they can reopen. and one of the big questions is, do they have what they need to do it safely? >> some seem to be more worried than others. in florida, forpl