we mark five weeks of covid now. we may well learn that this virus has been around even longer than that. let's stick with the bigger point. are you proud of what the greatest country in the world has managed during this time? for all the talk about testing, we still don't have enough. i don't care what the white house is telling you, the reality comes from the ground and the governors, and you know what they're telling you. they're not ready. so how do we reopen if we don't have the right tools? and more directly, about those tools, how can america, the greatest country in the world,

the richest, the most powerful, how can we be stymied by a q tip, how can we not have figured out how to make swabs and ppe? the president promised us that he would make america great again. well, this is the moment to make that message manifest. and remember, he said it was about bringing back manufacturing. well, where is it right now? swabs and gowns. the only thing that is checked this contagion is our collective response to stay home. together as ever as one. we know that is our true power, but when will it really be put to this problem. what do you say, let's get at it? the latest sign of what appears to be a rush to reopen. we see it from the governor of georgia. he admits, look, there will be

more cases when we reopen. he says we'll continue to go up. but they want to get business open. people want to get back to life. you know that, i know that. who doesn't want to get back. okay. but four days from now, bowling alleys, tattoo parlors, barbershops, that's an obvious one. you'll even be able to get a massage there by friday, is that good? sounds good, but what does it mean. governor kemp argues his state is a lot more prepared than a month ago. can they handle testing the populations back in the public. can they trace? can they treat? i have been trying to get the man responsible for testing on the federal level here. okay. his name is admiral jawar, he actually spoke today at the press briefing, a very rare appearance. hopefully the white house is hearing our calls for more transparency. this is the man in control we have almost never seen him. he is welcome here.

tonight and every night. the same goes for governor kemp from georgia. we invited him on the show. he declined. he is invited again tomorrow. we want his perspective on this. we are lucky to get some truth of the reality on the ground in georgia, specifically the city of atlanta. we have the mayor here. keisha lance bottoms. mayor, thank you so much for joining us on prime time. >> thank you for having me, chris, and i just want to say i'm so grateful that you're doing better. my entire family has been thinking about you and praying for you and your family. >> mayor, thank you so much. i am blessed. i am lucky. my wife has once again proven that she is the stronger part of the couple, the mrs. powered through this. she's out of quarantine. she dealt with it in a fraction of the time, so we are among the blessed. and you know what, my kids, mayor, they feel exactly what you're being told by your constituents, man, i got to get out of here. i got to get back. it's been too long.

i can't take it anymore, and that is strong medicine. the mayor says in georgia, i hear you. and it's been long enough. now, what is your level of comfort that when all of these appetizing things open back up, things you know you want, madam mayor, and that i want if i lived in atlanta, that you can do the testing, do the tracing, and dot treatment that may be necessary. what's your level of confidence? >> chris, i have four kids in my house, and no sooner than the governor made his announcement my 18-year-old, who will be 18 tomorrow, came running into the room to announce to me that the governor said he could leave home. so as a parent, i am concerned because what i know is that when i look at the data that we received from our public health department each day, our numbers are going up. we get a count at noon, and we get one at 7:00 p.m. when i look at the 24 hour period for the 7:00 p.m. count we got today.

our death rate is up by almost 14%. our positives up almost 7%. and we are not testing asymptomatic and people with mild symptoms, and so it concerns me. i have a great working relationship with our governor. but i did not speak with him before he made this announcement. i spoke with mayor hardy davis who is the mayor of augusta, georgia, the second largest city in the state. he did not speak with the governor. i've spoken with several leaders across the state. so we really are at a loss, and i am concerned as a mother and as the mayor of our capital city. >> the governor makes the talking to him part easier. he says you don't have to talk to me because you can't undo this. no locality can overturn this statewide reopening. now, that's a political play. to make this uniform and for him not to have to deal with infighting, and that's okay on one level. but now the bigger concern will

rest directly on his shoulders, why is why madam mayor we invited him on tonight, the governor is invited to make the case on this. he says you guys are in a better position than you were a month or so ago. the data shows over the last couple of weeks, you have seen a flattening in cases. is that enough for you to have confidence that there's enough testing capacity. there's enough treatment capacity of what can happen in atlanta, which is a huge density area. >> chris, if we're in a better position, it's because we have been aggressive in asking people to stay home. that's why we are in a better position. our metro area has about 6 million people, more than half the population in the entire state, but we have less than half of the people who have tested positive. where are our hot spots, our hot spots are in areas like bibb county around macon that didn't shut down. when we open up houses of worship, we have to think of

albany, georgia, which has had one of the worst outbreaks in the country, that by and large came from two funerals. so i'm perplexed that we have opened up in this way, and again, i can't stress enough, i work very well with our governor, and i look forward to having a better understanding of what his reasoning is, but as i look at the data and as i talk with our public health officials, i don't see that it's based on anything that's logical. >> but here's the strong pull, and what do you say to people, you know, literally in your own house when they say, i got to get out of here. i got to get out. i have had enough. the governor says it's okay. everybody's sick of this. it's been long enough. everybody's not dying. it seems like we're doing better. more and more states are starting to do this. look, full disclosure, my brother worked with connecticut and new jersey as the governor of new york, they are opening up

golf courses, marinas, parks, you know, i don't think they have a great plan for testing in place among the states. i don't think they have great pooled capacity but the pull of opening seems to be the strongest part of the mix right now. what do you do about that? >> chris, my mom owned a hair salon for over 25 years. i understand the economic pull on this. this would have been devastating to my family for her to have to shut down her business for weeks on end. but you have to live to be able to fight another day. and so when we're talking about this economic pool and getting to recovery, if we're not alive on the other side of it, then there won't be a recovery to be had. and again, let's look at the data. we see our numbers are continuing to tick up in this state. we see that our deaths are rising. we have some of the highest asthma rates in the country right here in atlanta. our governor often defers to local control and i wish that

this were an instance that he deferred to local control. i don't know how you get a haircut and keep a safe distance from someone who's cutting your bangs. it just doesn't make sense to me, and so i look forward -- go ahead. >> no, no, go ahead. we're here to hear you. >> i want to understand the logic behind this. you know, there are people hurting economically. i think that the better use of our energy would be to do things like we've done in atlanta. we have launched a small business fund to help people in need of grants. we are launching a beauty and barbershop fund to help people who have hair salons. we have deferred water bill payments. we have suspended evictions through our housing authority. there are a lot of things that we can do to make this more palatable for people to be able to stay home. but when you talk about small businesses, a lot of people don't even have health insurance who own small businesses.

and so these are our most vulnerable in more ways than one. >> so i just want to make something clear. you say you have a good working relationship with the governor, but just to be clear here, he makes this move faster than even the president is asking anybody to make it, you never talked to him about this. he didn't consult with you as the mayor of atlanta about what it would mean for your city before he pulled the trigger? >> let me be clear. the governor is the governor, so he did not have to consult with me. but the answer is no. he did not consult with me. and as the largest -- >> what's your read on that? >> you know, i can't explain it. i know the governor to be a man of reason and so i don't know why the governor didn't consult with me. i'm not sure who the governor consulted with other than who he said he consulted with, but we've created a business council in atlanta to advise us on when and how we should begin to open

back up for business at the appropriate time. >> well, mayor, let's do this. you're obviously going to have eyes on the situation. you always have an open channel here to tell us what's happening, what you're able to respond to and what you can't. so we have full information for people there, and of course all over the region and the country. mayor keisha lance bottoms, thank you very much. be safe. best to your family. >> thank you. >> all right. so look, here's what the experts tell us. you have to have the virus under control to get the economy back. that's common sense. but how do you balance the two? governors left and right say opening fast without the tools is not reasonable. so let's take this decision in georgia, tennessee, and elsewhere to reopen in just days to another health professional, dr. gupta, what works, what doesn't, next. >> announcer: cuomo prime time brought to you by progressive insurance, save when you bundle auto, home or motorcycle insurance.

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a little bit of we here in terms of what this georgia reopening means for the rest of us and obviously the people there and a little bit of me here as well. we had a huge day today in casa cuomo. take a look at this. >> all right. here it is. the official reentry.

from the basement. cleared by cdc, a little sweaty, just worked out. it happens. this is what i have been dreaming of. literally for weeks. my wife. she was cleared by the cdc. she doesn't have fever. she doesn't have the symptoms anymore. more than seven days from her quarantine. we're still a little scared so i'll just give you one of these. just give you one of these. just give you one of these. just give you one of these. bella who's of course taking the video. this is the dream. just to be back up here doing normal things. >> let's bring in dr. sanjay gupta. doctor, one of the things you may observe in that, and by the way, it's very important tonight especially that sanjay is in atlanta. he lives there. we'll get a little kind of cross purpose about how he feels about what's about to happen in his own state. what you may have noticed, sanjay, a quiet welcome for me

when i walked up stairs, two reasons, as the onion captured, they don't really want me out of the basement. secondly, this has spooked the family, you know what i mean. we're spooked by this, like families you have talked to all over the country. it really rocked us when christina got a case, albeit, much milder than mine, i think she's just stronger than i am, but the mrs. going down took a toll on us. it spooked the kids. there's a little bit of a trauma and a recovery process that we're going to have to go through as you see families all having. i never heard of recovery. i didn't know that this was like having some kind of baby trauma, and now i have a three-week recovery process. i did the first part today. i could barely breathe doing a walk, 25 minutes, i felt like i was exhausted. i did some little bands that usually i wouldn't even warm up with. i felt pain. i felt strain. you know, this really knocked people sideways in a way that it

will take weeks but today i'm a lucky guy, was even luckier than ever. this is a day i have dreamed about literally for weeks. >> i loved seeing your family there, chris, and bella did an amazing job being a camera woman there. it is the physical and the psychological, chris, and i think you have talked us through this. i mean, the physical part of this, even after you're recovered, right, because we always put this in binary terms. you have it, then you've recovered. what does that mean? we're getting insight by looking at the studies coming out of china, now some out of the united states and we're seeing you, we're seeing how i know you're a healthy guy. you exercise a lot. this is really knocked you down physically, but that psychological component, chris, i think is going to dove tail nicely into this next conversation because we cannot ignore what it's going to be like for people even in places that may be reopening too early. we can talk about that, but what about the psychological part of that for people.

is that safe. can we touch that door handle. >> we don't want to talk about it. it's stigma. we'll play to the paranoia, that's a little bit easier, that's about us and them, the sick versus the not sick. people don't want to talk about how they feel. this put me into a depression, i have never had anything like this in my life. it humbled me. i know people are dealing with so much worse. i've covered it. you've coved it. covered it. for me personally, i'm not that strong, and it really tore me up inside and out, making me reassess things about myself and my life. it scared me, some people when they get a heart attack. i know this is nothing like a heart attack but for me it was. and when i talk about it, people go like this. is he talking about, is he crazy now, they don't want to talk about the emotional and the psychological, it makes you seem strange. it makes you an other, but i think it's going to be a big part of this story, doc, what do you think? >> no doubt. and i'm glad that we have been

able to talk about it. i hope that everybody has somebody to talk about it. it's not strange. this is real, and any kind of illness can sometimes not just have an impact physically but also have an impact psychologically. it's a brush with mortality. i knew you were going to be okay. i mean, i was very certain of it. obviously no one can be 100% certain of anything, but i knew you were going to be okay. i saw you go through the doldrum and i've known you for a while and i've never seen you like that before and i'm not talking about the physical part. i'm talking about the psychological part. a lot of people this is the first brush they have had with something serious. they're seeing it around them, and they're seeing it within them as well. so i mean, again, i think it's so important for people to have heard your story because maybe they are getting some of that people just wanting to keep their distance, and then, you know, you've sort of let them know that there's other people out there like them talking about it. so, you know, i think they appreciate it. i certainly do. >> and they have been so helpful

to me, my new covid fam. i can't tell you how many have told me, it's not over, brother, don't go jumping outside like you're going to do something, you're going to faint. this was two weeks for me, three weeks, four weeks out, i just tested positive again, all these wacky things that are happening. the one thing i know for sure is i'm going to give myself a week or ten days, take your guidance, dr. fauci and give you guys all the blood you want. hopefully the plasma will help. i've never donated blood. i am completely a woos about it. they have to lay me down, i have to look to the side and someone has to tell me a story, i'm going to do it because i want to give people the antibodies, hopefully they help, i want to give them the plasma, i want to do anything i can to help anybody avoid what i had to do. >> that's amazing and that's something i did not know about you, your fear of needles and blood, good thing to keep in the back of my mind. you can help four people, that's what the data shows.

i hope your plasma is full of those antibodies, you're a big guy, so maybe you can donate a lot and help a lot of people hopefully. >> i hope so. >> the studies need to be done. we believe the antibodies are in the blood. we believe there's enough to give you immunity. we don't know that for sure yet as we have reported on chris, but hopefully if there is, it can help other people. that's how we start to actually see some significant light at the end of this tunnel is through these therapeutics, potentially. >> i hope that's true, but i have to tell you, when i hear about the reopening, even again, full disclosure, my brother is andrew, he is the new york governor. i was a little surprised by the deal with new jersey and connecticut to open up marinas and golf clubs and parks. not beaches, but, you know, i think there's going to be a cascade effect first of all, and second of all, can you test all of these people? i don't believe i can't get it anymore. i know that it's an open question in science, but paranoia wise i'm worried i'm going to get it again. when i heard about georgia and him jumping, which is obviously

a political move here in part, he looks good going early. he didn't even talk to your mayor in atlanta about doing this. what is your thought about the process and the potential? >> i think people don't realize that what we have been going through for the last several weeks in the united states of america is a totally unprecedented situation and it has had a significant beneficial impact. we have been physically distancing. people look at the situation now, and they say it's not that bad. there wasn't that many people who got stick. not as many needed to be hospitalized, we didn't need as many ventilators, that's because we did something wholly unprecedented in this country. a lot of people didn't want to do it in the beginning. a lot of people were late including here in georgia, but it made a huge difference. i don't relish the decisions these governors have to make. i'm glad i'm not in their shoes right now. i know they're getting a lot of pressure from these businesses. i hear it as well from people i know in the state. the problem is the state is not ready to do this, and the data

is clear on this. show some of the graphs here. look at the curve of what's happening in georgia in terms of the number of cases overall. ask yourself when you look at a graph like this, is this a state ready to open. you're seeing the numbers go up week by week in the state. maybe there's been a little bit of a plateau. maybe there hasn't been. >> by the way, sanjay, the governor's argument is put up -- there's the graph. the governor argues in the last two weeks he has met the criteria of the federal government of being flat to down over that two-week process. now the mayor in atlanta says that's not what she's seeing where she is, and obviously you have the lag effect and the reality there are more deaths, so is he right about the projections or do you think we're playing with numbers? >> no, i don't think we're playing with numbers. the numbers don't lie. i mean, that's the one thing about data and evidence. the mortality numbers for, you know, georgia overall went up

14% in the last 24 hours. first of all, it's not 14 days of plateau, first of all, that's not what the guideline says. it says 14 days downward trend of coronavirus cases. that graph did not show 14-day downward trend. the guidelines say 14-day downward trend of symptoms of influenza like illness. we're not seeing that. i mean, look, the numbers are what they are. people can look this up. we're not making these numbers up. the numbers have gone up. yes, they have bounced around a little bit, but the numbers do continue to go up. there's certainly not been a 14-day downward trend. just calculate the numbers, 84,000 tests have been done. roughly 19,000 have come back positive. that's about 23, 24% positive. we need to be doing enough testing where one out of ten, 10% come back positive. we're more than double that. we're not testing enough. the testing that we are doing is showing that the numbers continue to go up. the data doesn't lie. again, the governor, i don't relish these decisions. i know the governor is getting a lot of pressure.

you know, the thing about it is that psychologically, going back to that chris, this may be the most important point, what are we telling people right now, go back out, take your chances, you might get it, you might not. let's show the graphic of the restaurant. this came out of a study out of china. i thought this was really interesting. it shows basically how one person who's sitting at a particular table could potentially infect other people at the other table. it's a little bit small there. there's three tables, there's a, which is in the middle, there's b, and then there's c. there's one person at table a that goes into this restaurant, and it subsequently is found out to be infected. four people at his table get infected. three people at the table behind him get infected. two people at the table one over get infected. is this the sort of situation we are ready for. is this the sort of situation people are comfortable putting themselves in. i know that hopefully in restaurants that they do open, there's going to be more social distancing, more physical distancing, they're going to tree these things.

when we say we're not ready, it is about the testing, about hospital capacity, making sure the hospital can handle the added volume. it is about the fact that we know more people will get this infection. we know that. as a result of this decision, people will get infected. anytime we reopen, to be fair, there will be people who get infected. right now, the numbers are likely to be higher than necessary, and i think that's the matrix and the decision and the data would suggest it's too early to do it. i want it to be open too. my kids were jumping up and down when they heard this. we're not ready. that's the bottom line. >> the gamble will be sanjay, and this is a very dangerous gamble, there's no question about it, will people tolerate the increase in cases without panic because that's what every politician is betting on, that what is moved is the needle of what we'll tolerate. that we're not as panicked anymore by this. some cases will be okay because we want to get back and open. now, if they get that gamble

wrong, and people get spooked, it's going to set us a long way back. i got to jump. dr. sanjay gupta, thank you for being such a great friend, such a great doctor. >> and it's not just you. you could transmit that to people you don't even know as well. it's not just about your health, my health, we're codependent on each other. >> absolutely. that has always been true for you and me. but it is true for all of us in this. what you have to do is not just for you, as sanjay said we're all in it together for better or worse. let's take a quick break. >> announcer: this is cnn breaking news. told you it was quick. we have breaking news involving north korean dictator kim jong un. let me bring on the phone to get this as accurate as we can, cnn chief national security correspondent jim sciutto. the headline is that this is about kim jong un in north korea

and questions about his health. what do we know? >> that's right, chris. i'm told by a u.s. official with direct knowledge that the u.s. is monitoring intelligence that the north korean leader kim jong un is in grave danger following a surgery. now, we should note that kim, he recently missed the celebration of his grandfather kim el sun's birthday, this was april 15th, this raised speculation about his well-being, about his health. he had been seen four days earlier at a bureau meeting but it was the absence in recent days that had begun to raise questions about his well being, and now the u.s. monitoring intelligence that he had undergone a surgery, that there were problems and that his health is now in grave danger. >> jim, give people a little context on what that means from a reporting standpoint that the u.s. is going off of intelligence.

what does that mean? >> reporter: well, the u.s. is always monitoring intelligence, particularly regarding countries that are national security threats or of great interest to the u.s. north korea falls very much into that category. we should always note with any intelligence from a country such as north korea, that it is the deepest, most impenetrable of black boxes, right, so it's not an easy country to get information like this from, but the u.s. very focused on it. the significance here, a whole host of things, first of all, he's a very powerful leader of a dangerous country with nuclear weapons, and the ability now to put those nuclear weapons on the tips of missiles and threaten large portions of the globe. there's that. it's also a top heavy administration. kim jong un over the last several years has gone to great lengths to eliminate any potential suitors to his throne, including you may remember chris, you and i have talked

about this, his half brother who north korea assassinated in an airport with a nerve agent a number of years ago. that leaves questions if kim -- if -- and we don't know this is going to happen, but we know his health is in grave danger, if he were to die, who would follow him. this raises enormous questions, and on top of that is president trump's enormous investment in kim jong un, three face-to-face summits, a relationship the president has described as a love affair, of course consequences for the president's relationship with north korea but also for north korea itself and the threat that north korea poses to the u.s. >> so just a couple of high points here. so this is about intelligence. this is about information that the united states has gotten from a monitoring perspective. it wasn't put out by the north korean state media obviously. nobody else is reporting this directly from pyongyang, but you say grave danger.

what is the best suspicion about what that means? like is he on his death bed or did the surgery go badly? what's the context? >> reporter: well, i think it's safe to say the u.s. isn't certain how grave that is. but they're concerned enough that they're monitoring the intelligence closely, and listen, when you put your leader through a surgery like that and there are complications following, and you have intelligence to that, you know, to indicate that, then you pay close attention. >> is there any word about it being covid related? >> reporter: to my knowledge, no, it has not been described to me as a covid issue. reuters has been reporting citing north korean exiles speculation about this being overwork, the fact that he smokes, et cetera. often times when you have

information like this about the health of a leader from a totalitarian state, there are smoke screens put up. you might play down the seriousness of it. you might put out other potential explanations for what it is. but to the best knowledge of the u.s. at this point, is that there was a surgery, there were problems, complications with the surgery, and now his health is in danger. and of course given that he was absent from what normally would have been the kind of celebration ceremony that he would attend, celebrating his grandfather, you know, clearing clearly these health concerns did not begin just in the last day or two. they have been present for a number of days. >> one known, one unknown. one known is as you just suggested, kim jong un is known for going out in the public, and wanting to be regaled and wanting to be seen at high profile events. he is not a discreet leader.

he's not someone who's known to skip these types of pageants and things of mass recognition. what we don't know is he's a young man, but has there ever been suggestion about his health in the past? >> there have been concerns about his health in the past. there's been talk about issues such as gout, right. i mean, this is -- and his weight has been monitored, you know, you might describe him as overweight. this creates questions about how healthy he is. so there have been questions in the past, but this is in a different category, right, because it references specifically a surgery and something that has been going on for a number of days now. and as it has gone on for a number of days, the u.s. has paid closer and closer attention to what it means for him. >> well, jim, thank you so much for bringing this reporting to us on the fly. obviously major national security implications depending on what happens to fill the vacuum of this very dangerous

state. and of course the big question is how real is the danger to kim jong un? the reporting from jim sciutto and cnn is that united states sources in our government have been monitoring intelligence that kim jong un, the leader of north korea, his health could be in grave danger reportedly after complications following a major surgery. i asked jim, do we know anything about covid, surgery doesn't sound like covid. could it be a secondary infection? no word on that. we're waiting on more but this is breaking news, latest information from us. jim sciutto, thank you very much. okay. i wanted to bring you that. let's take a break. when we come back, we'll start talking about what matters in flattening the curve. testing is not just talk. let's bring in a governor to get context, next. because being healthy...

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all right. states around the country are going to start reopening. the pull is just too hard. yes, the curves have been flattening in different places but is it enough. it certainly seems to be enough to start fuelling the appetite to get back to normal. we know how powerful the pull is, but how we do it is just as important as when. today the vice president

declared that states have all the tests they need. okay. that's his quote. to begin phase one of reopening. some governors and labs are pushing back, they say they need more to get up to speed. president trump says testing is a local thing. now, why does cnn have an admirable in charge of it at hhs, admiral jarar who talked about it today. why is he the appointed person on the task force to coordinate testing if it's a local thing. what does this mean for governors, importantly, what does it mean for you and your family. joining is ohio governor mike dewine, now the governor's state is set to reopen on may 1st. governor, thank you for joining us, i hope i find you well. >> thanks, chris. it's good to see you and your family. that was a great shot, about 15 minutes ago. that was great. congratulations. >> i have been dreaming about it for weeks. i'm one of the lucky ones and i

continue to get more lucky. thank god. my wife went through this much more easily than i did. thank you, governor. in my family, we want to get back. my kids want to get reopened. they hear about what's happening in georgia, they're like, yes, what's going on with uncle andrew, why just the marinas, what is your word of caution about why you're waiting until may 1st and what the reality is about your ability to test, trace and treat when you reopen? >> well, we're putting together a group of community health folks to do the tracing. it's going to be very comprehensive. we've got to have more testing than we have. i talked with the vice president this weekend about it, and he's been helping us and working with us and it's going up, our testing is going up. but we need to continue to take that up further. you know, chris, it's important that we do this right. i talked to some businessmen and women, one of the things they say, you know, they're very anxious to get back.

they want to go. but they've also said, look, mike, don't start down this path and then stop it. don't be in a situation where we start our business back up and then we have to stop it again. so i think it's important how we do this, chris. i think it's important that we do it in a methodical way. i have asked my lieutenant governor, john husted to be in charge of working with the business community. what we're trying to look at is some of the lessons that were learned over the last three weeks, four weeks, when we had some of the quote essential businesses that were still working and a number of them, frankly, did a really bang up job in regard to the social distancing, putting barriers up, wiping things down every 15, 20 minutes. i mean, really did a phenomenal job so we got to take those lessons and take them over to the other businesses that we're thinking about allowing to open up, and you know, the challenge

is that i don't get the data really for two or three weeks so we're going to be careful, but really, people want to open. we want to do it. we can't let this economy just, you know, continue to go down. but at the same time, we're doing it, we've got to have the tracing. we've got to have the testing. and we're going to be very very aggressive. it's not in my nature or ohioans nature or americans to kind of sit back, and so we have been sitting back for a while, and we had to do it. we have flattened the curve. but we got to get aggressive with this. we're working with a group i have worked with when i was in the u.s. senate, partners in health, and had a conversation with them tonight. they're going to come in and give us some help in regard to the tracing part of this, and we're very excited about it. so i think the ohioans will be happy to know we're going to become pretty aggressive about this. but at the same time we've got to be careful, and we just got to do this in the right way, and we got to think it through and move forward.

>> all deliberate speed, as they often would say in the law. and you know, look, you know, you are known for taking action. you're also known for not being rash. and the obvious, you know, what's the obvious concern, is that the only thing we have going for us and that you have going for you in your state is the discipline and the collective consciousness that led people to socially distance and isolate. and now we're taking that away, and every time we take it away, we're vulnerable, if you can't match the testing. see that's the part i'm worried about is the expectation that people say, well, look, vp says, the president says dewine's got it, that it's a local thing on testing and he can handle it all himself. and it seems like an unfair burden shifting to me whether it's ohio or new york or new jersey or oregon, you guys can't do it all alone. is that a fair assessment? >> well, it really has been a partnership, though, chris. i described this to the vice president this weekend. look, i look at this as a

partnership. the talks, for example, today, an hour and a half on the phone, longer with the vice president, very candid with members of both political parties. i think that, you know, as we move forward my message to the people of ohio has been we have to continue the social distancing. this is not a case where we're going to stop doing that. we've got to do that. when we open the businesses, the businesses have to have that social distancing and what we have seen -- >> very tricky, gov. >> oh, it's tricky. it's very tricky. but it can be done. >> once you let me out there and if there's food and booze and i'm having a good time, the masks come off, the distance is going to close. you know, those are the concerns. >> well, what i have said, people have said, well, what's business going to look like? i said look, i think the way it's going to look is the employees are going to have masks on, and we're going to ask the people who come in to have masks on, and we're going to ask

them to do the social distancing. we got to keep doing that, and kind of the deal is we can open up some businesses, we can get back to business. we can get more people working methodically and lay that out, but we can only do it if we continue to do the social distancing. and that's kind of the bargain. that's kind of the deal, and i think if we do that, and if we have the discipline to do it, and ohioans are pretty disciplined, i'm confident that we can make some progress with our economy, get back to work, but we also got to be doing the testing, the tracing, and being more aggressive against this virus, which is much more in our nature than sitting back. >> well, look, it is a delicate balance. sanjay was saying earlier, he does not envy the shoulders upon which this decision rests, but this is why you wanted the job governor dewine, and we wish you well, and we are always here with you to discuss the issues as they arise and what the way forward is. >> good luck, chris.

that's great. thank you. >> thank you, governor. be well. best to you and the state. all right, let's take a break. five weeks in, five weeks in. is this as good as we can do? five weeks in. america, the greatest country in the world, are we handling this the way that we should? are we being made great again? let's discuss, next.

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ask ask. time for a reality check. the president showed us what we needed. this is what it's about. right? >> is it -- does it remind you of something? reminds you of this, right? once a swab, once one's a swab, one's a q tip. it's actually different. it's very sophisticated, actually. but they're a little alike so this is the swab. >> and why can't we make them? they are vital in the fight. we don't have near enough. with can we can't even source them. you hear about the governor of maryland, had to go to south korea. the guy had to go to south korea to get swabs. the greatest country in the world and we can't make these

things. the national stay at home guidelines, three months to the day, since the case was announced on our shores. one company. one company is working with the united states government to make more of these simple, little swabs. this is the moment for this president to make his own message manifest. he promised, make america great again. full disclosure. i dismissed it during the campaign as a call to the days before we were as diverse and as respectful of diversity as we are now. i took it as a culture play. and as gjingoism but trump said this. >> we're restoring the glory of american manufacturing. >> and i will never, ever disappoint you. >> is he disappointing you right now?

this is the greatest need for old-school factory work and manufacturing since the big test, ww ii, right? ford's willow run plant turning out b-24 bombers, every hour, by the end of the war. companies that made things like brass buttons, upholstery nails, they started making bullets, cartridges, clips. america launched more ships and boats in 1941 than japan did in the entire war. it wasn't easy. we had time. we built up to it but we built more planes, in one year, than japan did in six. right now, we got millions suddenly out of work. where is that spirit of daring do on the federal level? instead of excuses, instead of lies, about having enough, why aren't we making enough? there were millions unemployed in world war ii. they didn't just stop fascism. they stopped that economic collapse. and got rid of unemployment at

home. rosi did rosie the riveter. turned a can-do spirit into an icon. ordinary americans, stepping up to do what was needed in the moment. that is what made america great. will we do it again? we've got our heroic healthcare workers. but we're leaving them out there, without ppe. we are not doing the minimum that we could for them. this is not sophisticated stuff. the president said you can get the reagent, you can get the stuff for the testing. then get it! he makes fun about the swabs. they're pretty sophisticate -- one company that's making america great again. you say you have enough tests. no, you don't. none of the governors agree with you. going down to d.c. tomorrow to have exactly this conversation. i can't believe that, after five weeks, this is all we've got going. talk is cheap, man. we need the greatness that only america can achieve in the past by coming together as ever as one. all these supercitizens we have.

these big, corporate moguls. why aren't they getting involved? why aren't they doing more? why hasn't the president pulled the trigger on them to make them do it the way fdr did? he used defense production act hundreds of thousands of times. why hold back when the need is dire? muster no greater response than hiding. and look i'm happy we're doing it. it's flattening the curve. but that's all we've got? a lot simpler than b-24s, right? and tanks. a cotton swab. gloves. gowns. visors. fashionistas can make them. kids are making them at home. we can't find a way to do it here? on larga large scale, really? kids do more with hefty bags on halloween than we figured out how to do with ppe. you got governors competing with the federal government and other countries like i told you with hogan. this is what we're doing? states fighting against each other and bidding against the

federal government for stuff that somebody else is making because we can't get it done ourselves? holy cow. where is that maga mentality? it's more than just a hat, isn't it? who knows where the hats were made. hopefully, in america. you figured that out. why can't you figure this out? it's just a q tip. some gowns. gloves. where once we found solutions, we now put a premium on blame and excuses. but this is our moment. this is our test. is our response as great as the need is? if not now, when? when the next wave comes and we get caught unaware, again, with excuses? thousands and thousands of people winding up like me, and worse, all over the country. families worried. life disrupted. we got to be able to do better than this. we've got to do better than what we're doing right now. this is america. the greatest, strongest country, with the most resilient people. hard times make strong people. these are hard times. will we show our strength?

five weeks in, i argue, no, we have not. and we have to do better. that's my argument for you, tonight. all right. let's take a break. actually, and say good-bye. do i say good-bye now? or do i go to break and then say good-bye? hello. welcome to our viewers in the united states and around the world. i'm john voss live at the cnn center in atlanta where it's just gone 2:00 a.m. on a tuesday. ahead this hour, from jordan to india to the u.s., around the world, lockdowns are being lifted or eased but the warning is the same. get this wrong, then brace for a surge in the coronavirus. 800,000 confirmed cases of the coronavirus in the u.s. donald trump, now, plans to suspend all immigration. and has anyone seen kim jong un? after missing a major public celebration last week, new intelligence suggests the north korean leader is gravely ill.