consideration when prescribing this medication. take this into consideration that a drug may cause increased death rates? i mean, look. i think we need to be more honest right now. it is that important, wolf. >> it certainly is. all right, guys. please stand by. cnn will continue our special coverage right now with erin burnett "outfront." "outfront" next the breaking news the startling warning from the director of the cdc telling "the washington post" the possible second wave next winter could be worse than the current coronavirus outbreak. plus, our dr. sanjay gupta takes an antibody test. what did he learn from it? he will share his experience and the results. and a renowned infectious disease expert who was the doctor behind the movie "contagion" also contracted coronavirus. he is warning things could get a lot worse before they get better. let's go "outfront." good evening. i'm erin burnett "outfront"

tonight the breaking news an alarming warning from the director of the cdc. director robert redfield telling "the washington post" a possible second wave in the winter could be worse than the current outbreak. the quote, there is the possibility that the assault of the virus on our nation next winter will actually be even more difficult than the one we just went through. we'll have the flu epidemic and the coronavirus epidemic all at the same time. he says, two respiratory outbreaks would put unimaginable strain on the health care system and what may be more concerning tonight is that he says his warnings of this are falling on deaf ears. presumably obviously at the most powerful and important levels of the u.s. public health and government. he said, when i've said this to others they kind of put their head back. they don't understand what i mean. this comes as the number of coronavirus cases hits a new milestone in the united states, more than 800,000, and the death toll more than 44,200 people. nick watt is out front live in

los angeles. you know, as you hear warnings like the cdc director falling on deaf ears you have some states trying to rush to reopen now with very little agreement on how to even define reopen. >> absolutely. listen, we were hailing thaes blocs of states agreeing to collaborate on reopening but boy is it getting messy already. you have the federal government position which disagrees with some of the states. you've got south carolina saying that they're ready to open up. you've got north carolina saying that they're not ready yet. you know, the governor of connecticut kind of summed it up talking about himself and the governor of georgia. he said their views are the exact opposite when it comes to reopening. that is the problem. and as you mentioned, all the while, we're now being told this virus could come back in the fall and come back even harder.

>> the virus has killed more than 44,000 americans and it will return this winter and it might be even worse. so the cdc director tells "the washington post," because it could coincide with regular flu season and two respiratory outbreaks at once would hammer our health systems. meanwhile, our leaders are trying to agree on how to reopen from round one. take dallas county. they extended stay home through mid may setting up a possible showdown with the governor. >> to the extent that my executive director has statewide application it would overrule any local jurisdiction. >> in iowa democratic lawmakers want a pork processing plant closed after an outbreak. the governor won't do it. the governor in georgia says barber shops, nail salons, gyms, can all reopen friday but soul cycle says it won't.

congregations can gather but one bishop is telling his flock not to. other governors are wary. >> i'm glad i'm not an immediate neighbor of georgia because i think all you are doing is potentially throwing some gas on the flames there. >> testing of course is required to keep track of the virus as we reopen. >> if we don't have the data we don't know what we're up against. >> the continued lack of testing, partly what's making some in georgia so anxious about reopening. >> we need testing. we certainly need work on treatment. we need contact tracing of the sort we just don't have in this state yet. >> the white house guidelines say you should start reopening only after, among other things, a downward trajectory of documented cases within a 14-day period. >> we are on track to meet the gating criteria for phase one. >> not really. monday, april 6th, 1,099 new cases. 14 days later, yesterday, just

one less. not so in tennessee but they plan to reopen some businesses monday. not so in south carolina. but they opened beaches and retail stores today. >> the reality is that south carolina has not peaked yet according to our own professionals. >> reporter: myrtle beach defying the governor will keep beach parking closed. now, i do want to talk briefly, erin, about hair cuts in georgia. hair salons will open friday. we are told that social distancing will be maintained. i have lost count of the number of times over the past 24 hours i've been asked, how is that possible? somebody just asked dr. birx during the white house press conference. she even was a little evasive but she said she doesn't -- she says i don't know how that can happen but people are very creative. so that is really a nonanswer. the president said he will be speaking with governor kemp tonight and said he is not sure if perhaps they'll be taking

people's temperatures as they walk into the hair salon. more to come i'm sure on hair cuts in georgia. >> the salons open. the saloon is still closed. thank you very much to nick watt. let's go now to the democratic governor of oregon, kate brown. governor, i appreciate your time tonight. i just want to start with what nick was talking about there. the cdc director is warning tonight that a second wave next winter could be even worse. using the word assault, saying it will be more difficult because you would have coronavirus and flu and it would simply put unmaj strain on the public health system. do you agree? would your state be ready for that? is that even part of your plan? >> look, we are just beginning the reopening phase right now starting to put meat on the bones and our counties are helping us with that work. it is very collective and very collaborative here. we're making decisions based on science and data and relying on

public health experts and epidemiologists. in terms of the fall this coronavirus is going to change our lives in ways we have not imagined. i think it is really important that we start preparing for the future. for example, we do not have internet in all of our homes and our communities and our businesses around oregon. i think it is imperative that we do that quickly so that our school children can continue to learn through the internet, through distance learning, and have access to that education in the event we have an outbreak in the fall. we also need to make sure that we have the ability to conduct elections safely. across the entire country. people should not be putting their health nor their lives at risk voting in november. and we have the means to do this. in oregon we've been voting by

mail, literally at our kitchen tables in our pajamas for years and decades. we can do this safely. we can do it effectively, and we can do it cost effectively. >> so when you talk about what you are trying to do now, we know the governor andrew cuomo of new york, just with the president late this afternoon and was talking about the need for more testing supplies. they both said the meeting was productive. but, governor, you know as well as i know there are two very different tales in this country. one is the president saying testing is up to the states and we've done more tests than anywhere else in the world so therefore everything is fine and any problems are on the governors and then the other version of the story is the reality on the ground which is that there is not all the testing that is needed for a variety of reasons whether it be the tests themselves, reagents needed to interpret them, or something in between. but he says you've got everything you need right now. is that true? what is your response to the president? >> absolutely not. we certainly got some of the ppe

we requested. we roughly got about 25% of our requests but we realize we're going to have to rely on oregon ingenuity and creativity so we have been very careful. we've worked hard to collect it. our dentist offices have contributed their ppe. we've worked very hard to be conservative in our use. but most importantly we're working with oregon businesses to produce it. we have had over 80 oregon businesses creating masks, creating gloves, creating gowns. i'm not sure they're doing gloves but you get my drift. and obviously very aggressive around procurement. in terms of testing, it's about having the right type of tests in the right locations. oregon has some testing capacity but we are one of the states with the lowest testing capacity. so is this okay? no. but we're going to have to be creative and innovative in terms of how we look for solutions because it is really clear that

we cannot rely on the federal government to help us out right now. >> we have seen protests across the country against stay at home orders. one took place in your state on friday and one of the protesters said keeping sick people quarantined is democracy. keeping healthy people quarantined is tyranny. what is your response? >> look, these protesters are frustrated. i'm frustrated. we all want to get back to life as normal. and people are really, really scared. they're worried about how they're going to pay their rent, how they are going to put food on the table, how they're going to make sure their children get a good education. these are very frightening times. i think it is so important that we all come together and i welcome people protesting. we support free speech rights here in oregon but they have to do it safely and abide by social distancing measures. >> all right. governor brown, i appreciate your time. thank you very much.

>> thanks, erin. good to talk to you. >> i want to go now to the doctor who advised the george w. bush medical team for eight years. let me just start by giving you a chance to react to the governor. what she is saying is they're one of the states with the lowest testing capacity but basically have given up on the federal government. >> yeah, well, a lot of states have come to understand that it's really every state for themselves. it's what has been described as darwinian federalism and our governors have become very resourceful. the governor of my state in maryland acquired, you know, 500,000 tests on his own from south korea so we're seeing governors have to do this and become very resourceful. so i applaud them for doing that, for taking over for what the federal government should be doing. >> so there's, you know, all this focus on states reopening and not just whether it is too

early for that state but, frankly, the impact of one state going too early on other states. and georgia is the example right now that people are looking at as to what happens there. they have a very aggressive reopening plan starting this week including hair salons, manicure locations, movie parlors. the president was asked about it tonight and said he was going to be speaking to the georgia governor in a little while. it sounded like it was going to happen tonight. even lindsey graham a republican senator usually very much in lock step with the president from the neighboring state of south carolina tweeted today, i worry that our friends and neighbors in georgia are going too fast too soon. do you think that the president is going to be able to tamp down the governor of georgia or will he just encourage him? >> the president has repeatedly given mixed messages. on the one hand he encourages

people to stay home. and then on the other hand he applauds people protesting because they have to stay home. there really has to be a consistent message from the federal government that by staying home you're protecting each other. when you look at a press conference that comes out of the united kingdom the podium has signage that says stay home. protect the national health service. protect your community. that has to be the consistent message. we've heard mixed messages from the president. so when the president keeps encouraging and rooting for the opening of states before it's really ready he does great harm to the advances we've made in blunting the curve with social distancing and keeping people at home under self-isolation. >> so the president has not brought up hydroxychloroquine for a while. it did come up of course today in the briefing. when the president was directly

confronted with the fact that the nih is now apparently saying one should not combine that with the z pack which he has personally, directly suggested doing multiple times. there is a new study tonight from the u.s. veterans medical centers on hydroxychloroquine that found for patients on hydroxychloroquine that found those patients were no less likely to need to be put on a ventilator than people who did not take the drug and, in fact, had higher death rates compared to those who did not take the drug. would you give this drug to a coronavirus patient right now? >> no, only in the context of a clinical trial. and the v.a. study wasn't a randomized trial. it really only has limited benefit to us. it's possible that some of the patients who got hydroxychloroquine were maybe sicker patients. it is really impossible to know. without doing a randomized trial where half the group by chance gets placebo, only when you do that can you understand whether

the drug has benefit. in this study in about 390 patients in the v.a. system, no benefit and a trend toward worse outcomes. doesn't add a tremendous amount of knowledge because it is not randomized but it is yet another study that really fails to show any benefit and suggests perhaps some harm. >> all right. dr. reiner, thank you. >> sure. my pleasure. >> next dr. sanjay gupta takes an antibody test to find out if he has already had coronavirus. so he will share his experience and you'll see the result next. plus the senate approving a $480 billion package to help small businesses. does that mean this business owner that you met earlier on this program will get help? are you scared? >> i'm concerned. >> and one of the world's leading epidemiologists who was studying covid-19 then contracted the virus himself. what his biggest fear was when

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to understanding the spread of the virus toon reopening the country but they can very unreliable. sanjay is outfront. >> i'm going to put a tight squeeze on you here. >> there are two different tests we are all becoming familiar with. a diagnostic test that searches for the genetic markers of the coronavirus and this one that tests for antibodies. >> going to give you a cold wipe. first thing you'll notice is the antibody test requires blood. for me, it was just a poke. >> just like that we're all done. >> reporter: but then look at all the steps that take place after that. my blood is taken down to the lab. and then spun down in a centrifuge. you're looking at my serum. that is the clear part that might contain antibodies if i have been previously exposed. the way to find that out is fascinating. just take some of my serum and put it in the same test tube as the virus and see what happens. >> if you have antibodies

against that, they're going to bind and we'll be able to detect that. >> reporter: this is the medical director of the blood bank at emory university hospital in atlanta where i practice as a neuro surgeon. i was able to get this test because i am still working as a doctor at emory and health care workers are considered at high risk for covid-19. this particular test, approved under fda emergency authorization at emory, was developed by robach and his colleagues. right now, they test up to 300 people a day. by mid june they expect to be processing thousands a day. it is far more sophisticated than the tests you may have heard of recently. what do you make of these at home tests for antibodies? >> i don't think they can achieve the sorts of performance characteristics we can with these tests that we have in our clinical laboratory. we have a lot better control over the testing conditions, over the sample that was collected. >> here's what happens in your body when you're infected.

the blue line, that is how long the virus typically lives inside of you. take a look at the green line. early on, igm antibodies appear but they disappear shortly after. and then the red line. that's the igg antibody. that's the one that appears after the infection is cleared and might provide immunity. for just how long, how strong, that we don't know yet. we do know that for other coronaviruses like sars, antibodies lasted two to three years. and mers the middle east respiratory syndrome had antibody presence of about three years. but with this new coronavirus it is still too early to tell. in order to answer the question, researchers are going to focus on this term. neutralizing activity. you see, it doesn't necessarily matter how many antibodies you have. it only matters how well they work at keeping the virus from entering a human cell. and that can vary from person to

person. >> it's fascinating that not everybody that has high levels of antibodies on the tests we're doing now actually have very much neutralizing activity that those antibodies might still be helping. you know, it causes us to pause a little bit before we just categorically say if you have high antibodies you're immune. >> what is the real value of having the test? >> i think if you have, if you're positive on this test, it indicates you've been exposed. that can give you a little peace of mind i think that the cough i had two weeks ago, that was really covid-19. it could indicate that, you know, some of your close contacts should be tested. >> reporter: but perhaps most importantly dr. roe bach told me something i hadn't really considered before. that if you test positive for the antibodies, that means you've dealt with this infection and you've beat it. chances are if you're exposed again you'll beat it again. as for me, that part is still an open question mark. i tested negative.

>> so, sanjay, there is so much in that. so just to start i know we talked a lot about the tests and that so many of them are very inaccurate just because it is very hard to test for the specificity of a specific virus if it isn't widely present in a population. so there can be a lot of challenges. i know you are talking about this one being one they had a lot of control over. how much do you have confidence in your result that a negative is a negative? >> i feel pretty good about this test. i really wanted to see the process by which they went through this. there's a lot of tests out there. there are only four that have been approved under the emergency use authorization. but i wanted to get a sense of just how much they went through the process of collecting my plasma, trying to find if there was any antibodies by letting it react to the virus and really spending some time doing that. in my case there was no reaction, so there is, you know, i feel pretty confident there was no antibodies in my plasma.

i have not had an exposure to this. but it could be tough, to your point. i think there are some 90 tests that haven't been validated and there's been this push, this rush really to try and get these tests out there but many of them just don't work. they're not accurate, not something you can rely on. >> so on this issue of immunity and i know we've talked a lot about that i want to take the positive though of what you just said. because we were saying, okay. even if you don't get immunity from having antibodies, right, if that is the case, the fact that your body would have successfully if you have positives fought the virus off would mean it would be likely to do so again, right? that you wouldn't be under a situation where you get a mild or asymptomatic case the first time and then the second time you need to be on a ventilator, right? >> right. that could happen but according to dr. roe bach a lot less likely once you've proven you've been able to fend off the virus once. >> please stay with me. i want to bring in now to the

conversation an epidemiologist who helped eradicate small pox and is a cnn medical contributor. on this issue of immunity that sanjay was just referencing, i know he was talking about some coronaviruses, sars, mers, where it seems the antibodies may last two to three years. i know you have a lot of questions about this and we don't know. you have seen evidence for example that mild cases of coronavirus may only give extremely limited immunity. how limited? >> thanks, erin. well, a well known infectious disease epidemiologist at the university of michigan where sanjay and i are both alumni just published a paper saying that four other coronaviruses that circulate annually in colds, for example, they only give one or two years of immunity after people have had that. and that helps explain why we get this recurring seasonality of some viruses and colds. somewhere between what we've seen from sars and mers and

these four other coronaviruses is a good place to begin. >> and i know, which is an interesting point, you were also referencing though that if you have a very mild case that may mean an extremely limited period of immunity, correct? if you get a really serious case you might get two or three years but if you get a mild case who knows? it might be nothing. it might be two months. >> so this virus is four and a half months old. it hardly crawls let alone walks. we're finding out everything about it every day something new. and we have anecdotal evidence that the immunogenicity is important with how serious the case was but it is only anecdotes so far. >> sanjay, what do you think? these are -- obviously we don't know the answers but those are the kinds of possibilities that are deeply concerning especially when you hear the cdc talking

about a possible second wave that could be worse this winter, right? >> right. i think that is absolutely true. there's good reason to believe that after you've been infected with this virus you should have protection for some period of time. it may not be as strong with a milder infection but i think there is good evidence based on other viruses that you should have some protection, again, the reason i brought up the other coronaviruses such as sars and mers is they did offer a couple years' worth of protection. i don't know if they split it into patients who had mild versus severe illness but i think i'm counting on the fact we can have a little bit of protection. we'll get an idea how long and how strong that protection is and it may vary person to person. no one knows this better than larry brilliant. his last name perfectly suits him. we have a lot more to learn as we go around. >> with so many asymptomatic

cases that could be quite concerning obviously. so, dr. brilliant, when you talk about eradicating infectious diseases obviously it is very rare but you are part of the team that eliminated small pox and in that doing a great, great good for humanity. coronaviruses have been around for decades. two months ago sanjay was telling me about labs where they simply study which ones could cross over and how concerned they are about them. do you think, dr. brilliant, this coronavirus is something we would ever be able to eradicate? >> to eradicate which means pull out by the roots, it sort of implies there are no animal hosts. you can't clear the whole world of them because if it is in tigers, they're not going to hand out their paw for you to vaccinate them very easily. this is a bat virus. there is also the camel virus, mers. as long as the virus has a home that it can go to in animals and we can't vaccinate them, we have to think about conquering the

disease with a different bit of language. we can pretty much throw it into the dust bin of history. we can use metaphors like that but eradicate is really reserved to a disease that does not also affect animals. >> right. thank you both. so very much. >> thank you very much for having me. >> next, a warning. the new $480 billion package to help small business owners could run dry in days. what does that mean for one small business owner that you met on this show who still cannot get a loan from the federal government? plus the infectious disease expert behind the movie "contagion" is my guest. he has been studying the virus and where it came from. tonight he is warning it is about to get much worse before it gets better. our homes.

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$480 billion bill that will provide $310 billion for small business loan programs. the original program ran out of cash in less than two weeks. now they're doubling it. one business owner still waiting for help from the federal government runs the los angeles restaurant employees only. if you watched the show you've seen tom's story.

we introduced him to you back in march. here is what he told us then. >> reporter: are you scared? >> i'm concerned. yeah. >> and tom is outfront now. tom, i know you applied originally. you weren't able to get a loan originally. tell me how things are right now. >> well, you know, we, it is a bit frustrating because we were one of the first in line to apply but we didn't really have the opportunity to do so until the day before they ran out of funds. so i submitted my application.

woke up the next morning. found out that they ran out. so it really went from us being hopeful to having to rethink a lot of our strategies again in how to align them to when we could potentially open. >> i know there are a lot of questions still on that. now you have i guess essentially they are doubling the amount they had out there but look, tom, i know the reality from what i hear. people who are really well connected with their bankers and have established relationships got all that money the first time around. we understand you could have two days before this one is gone. maybe ten if you're lucky. you know, do you feel better positioned to be able to get your application where it needs to get this time? or no? >> it's hard to say because i don't really have much faith in the system anymore. if anything, if this has taught me anything, it's that we all get to make a choice, and to

choose who we give comfort to i really hope that we can all refocus on protecting our most vulnerable instead of just monied interest. >> so president trump said today, tom, i don't know if you saw this, but he said he is going to ask some of the bigger companies that were able to get those loans to return the money. and then, you know, it was said, giving it back, pot belly, how did you feel about them, they are getting the money from the program before you did? >> it's discouraging. we see all of the -- all of this on the news that all these big publicly traded corporations, some of them grossing close to half a billion dollars in revenue, are receiving $20 million and then a small business like us, we're receiving a letter that says the program is out of money. it just continues that frustration because it is very

clear that access equals success. and even if they give it back now, what does that matter? why did they even go for it to begin with? >> i just want to make sure i clarify. they got the money. they did not return it. steak shack did but pot belly did not. i misspoke there. tom, can i ask you, just given how things are and the uncertainty and the fear and the heartache that you have, with your livelihood, that important definition of yourself, your work that you have built, i mean, how are you managing right now? how is your family? >> my family is okay. i mean, we're going day to day. we're just trying to stay focused on kind of the charitable aspects we're still doing and, you know, for us at least we've made a choice that we want to continue feeding

people in our industry and the hospital workers who protect us, so we want to give comfort to people who we feel need it most right now. so i think that's kind of where we're focusing all of our attention and just, you know, trying to stay busy as best we can. >> all right. well, tom, i appreciate your taking the time. i hope people heard what you had to say. thank you. >> thank you, erin. >> i want to go straight to the former chairman of the council of economic advisers under president obama. when you hear what tom is saying, you know, that is -- and when he is talking about charitable evidence so people know he has been using his restaurant to feed other restaurant workers just to do that for free, first responders, that's what he's been doing. he's been unable to get this money. and yet you have companies that had big, existing relationships with banks, some of them do

happen to be pretty big, publicly traded companies, well known, able to get the money. now we're hearing this one is going to run out in two to ten days and yet you've spent as much money on the small business program as essentially in the entire bail out of the great financial crisis when you were in the white house. it's pretty stunning. how is this happening? >> look, i think it is stunning. that's the right word. the $350 billion that we blew through for small business, that's almost $3,000 per family for the united states. so if we just spent $3,000 a family and it turns out that we out sourced the decision of who should get the money to banks, you can't be surprised the banks decided who should get the money are the people they are most comfortable with and the safest credits that they have.

the problem is, the companies that banks are most comfortable with and are the safest for them are not the companies that are at highest risk of having to liquidate, shut down, or fire people. this money was intended to try to help exactly the small businesses like tom's where they're kind of on the margin. and if you look in my own neighborhood we got a pizza place on the corner called pizzeria nella and down the street a pot belly sandwich shop which is a national chain. pot belly got money. i'm not exactly sure how they did it but they got money. nella didn't. the chance that a small, local restaurant or dry cleaner, beauty salon, whatever, in your neighborhood is going to be done for good, unfortunately, is going up with time because they're just blowing through this money. >> well, right. i know talking to the dry cleaner i deal with they weren't able to get it. they have had business around for a long time in a lot, a big

part of new york city. i was shocked when i heard that. so how do you fix this, austin? obviously the federal government didn't want to be in the business of having to evaluate the loans. that's why they out sourced it to the banks and you can understand why they thought banks would be better at doing that. yet that is exactly what is causing the problem here. >> look, i think that is what's causing the problem. a part of what is in this bill today, i still got to look at it in some more detail, but i think one thing that is successful is trying to get the money not just to the biggest banks but also to some of the smaller community banks because they at least will have more connection on the ground to these local -- these more local businesses. i think the second thing is the government has not really been that up front or clear to the banks with what is it that we want the companies to do either with the money -- part of these

loans become forgivable grants if you don't layoff employees and things like that. and in a weird way, it made the problem worse. because it led the banks to try to identify companies who had the smallest negative hits on their demand. those are exactly the kinds of companies that are not going to layoff workers. so of course they want to get free grants from the government. i think we've got to make the criteria clearer and we've got to work through other financial institutions not just the big banks. >> all right. thank you very much, austan, for laying that out. next, one of the top experts in the world on infectious disease has caught coronavirus while studying it. it took him out for six weeks. why he says there were days he was afraid. plus, president trump wishing kim jong un well after cnn is learning the united states is monitoring intelligence the north korean leader is in grave condition. what we are learning about his health tonight.

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tonight the renowned virologist behind the movie "contagion" warning, quote, we're in trouble when it comes to this coronavirus. dr. ian lipkin contracted the virus himself in february and has been investigating where the virus came from. he is the director of the center for infection and immunity at columbia university and joins me now. i'm so glad to have you with me and i'm glad you're doing better. when i'm reading some of the things that you have been saying you said this virus took you away from your work for about six weeks. i know you're back though now and we hear from the cdc director there could be a worse second wave in the winter and you also have a warning about what we could be facing. >> yes, good to be with you, erin. happy to be here. i feel much better today so i've

come out the other side and presumably i'm not immune. it is interesting i became sick when i came back from china in 2003. this time, i became sick in new york, which indicates how the shift has occurred on the epicenter of the outbreak. the concern that's been raised bay robert redfield is that next fall and winter we're going to have to contend with influenza at the same time we have this new covid issue. and it is going to be difficult to differentiate the two. clinically they may appear to be quite the same and obviously the treatments for flu and for covid are very different. we hope that by that point we may actually have a treatment for covid. at present we're still in the process of trying to sort that out. >> so when it comes to your situation, i know that you were fortunate, dr. lipkin. you didn't have to go to the hospital. but you did say, and i think it

is important for people to hear, given who you are and your expertise there were some days when you were afraid. tell us what you were experiencing. >> so the onset of the disease for me was quite sweated, i had headache, which is a little bit unusual, and then i slowly began to improve. but around day eight to ten, many people have a second sort of phase of the disease where they begin to deteriorate a bit. this may, in fact, be in relationship to the immune system kicking in, and you may be looking at side effects of that immunity. i did have some mild shortness of breath. it never progressed to the point where i felt that i was going to need to be hospitalized. >> so, you know, we've been seeing some states, dr. lipkin, obviously georgia, south

carolina, tennessee. they are taking steps to reopen. you have beaches open now. you're going to have salons, movie theaters. what impact do you think those few states, which are doing this, by the way, even more accelerated than the white house plan that's out there. how much of a negative effect, if there is one, could they have on the country as a whole when you worry about the possibility of a second surge or a second peak? >> this is extremely worrisome because people cross state lines all the time. so you could have excellent containment in one state and then because people are exposing themselves, individuals come through that state, either passing through or returning to school or what have you, and they carry the virus with them. this is an extraordinary risk for us all. people need to get this through, you know -- think about this. all we have at present is containment and physical

distancing, and testing that allows us to do that in an intelligent way. when we have a vaccine, all of this is going to recede. when we have good drugs, it will be a different story. but that's not where we are now. all we have is common sense. >> and you view that as extremely risky. so let me ask you another crucial question, dr. lipkin. this is the heart of a lot of conversation about this, which is where this virus came from. obviously we know wuhan, china, was where it came from. but we know u.s. officials are looking into the theory that it is a natural virus, but that it leaked out of a lab in wuhan where they were studying coronaviruses in bats. i know that you were actually in china before you contracted this. i know you say you contracted it here. you were there talking to people about it and the virus. what do you believe at this point about where it came from? >> there is an enormous difficulty we have right now with xenophobia and finger

pointing. it's going both directions and it's not productive. this is a virus that originated in a bat. we don't know which bat. we don't know precisely where that bat was located. but if you look at the sequence and you examine what's present in bats and what's present in humans, you can see very clear that there's a linkage between what started in the bat and what ultimately was found in the human. we were asked to look specifically at whether or not there was any possibility that this virus was bioengineered, created in a laboratory and then released in the world. there is zero evidence to support that. there is also no evidence to support the idea that this virus somehow leaked out of the lab. we have an enormous problem with emerging infectious diseases every three to five years there's another one. hiv, west nile virus, nipa, ebola, another ebola, sars,

mers, so forth. this is a self-inflicted wound. if we didn't destroy our habitat, it if we didn't have forced migration, poverty and many of these other issues, consumption, so forth, we would have far lower risk. these are things we do to ourselves. >> it's a very interesting point and how you link it to being human cause. dr. lipkin, i appreciate your time. thank you very much, sir. >> my pleasure. bye-bye. >> and next, president trump weighing in on cnn, reporting that the u.s. is now monitoring intelligence which suggests kim jong-un is in grave danger after undergoing surgery. what he's saying tonight. "nationwide office of customer advocacy." ...but we can still support you and the heroes who are with you. we're giving refunds on auto insurance premiums, assisting customers with financial hardships,

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♪ nothing is everything ask your dermatologist about skyrizi. ♪ tonight president trump says he wishes kim jong-un well after a cnn report that u.s. officials are monitoring intelligence that suggests kim is in grave danger after undergoing surgery. jim sciutto reports out front.

>> reporter: tonight the u.s. is monitoring intelligence suggesting that north korean dictator kim jong-un is in grave danger after undergoing a surgery according to u.s. officials. the secretive north korean leader recently missed the national celebration of his grandfather's birthday on april 19th which raised questions about his well-being. a paper that reported kim was overweight underwent a cardiovascular procedure on april 12. they say kim is definitely unwell, but he is still likely involved in day to day decisions despite his deteriorating condition. the white house national security advisor confirmed the u.s. is keeping a close watch on kim's health. >> we're watching reports closely. we'll have to see, as everyone here knows, the north koreans are parsimonious with things they put out about their leadrs. >> reporter: these images show

when kim was last seen in public on april 11. according to state media, he chaired a pilot meeting four days before missing his grandfather's birthday celebration. while his absence is notable, north korea is difficult for u.s. intelligence to penetrate making concerns about the state of his health to assess. >> north korea is a hard target for the intelligence services. they really don't have much in the way of assets. >> reporter: south korea says they are unable to confirm the reports about kim's health. nevertheless, u.s. officials have begun to reach out to experts on north korea. to assess what the aftermath of kim's rule could look like. potentially unstable nation with nuclear weapons. >> kim jong-un is very young. as a result, there are no succession plans. >> reporter: one possible successor would be kim jong-un's sister, one of the most visible members of the family. she appeared at the winter olympics in south korea and attended the singapore summit

with president trump. >> it's hard to know, but it seems to have been a family succession offer r over the past -- we've had three leaders in a row who have been in the family. >> that was jim sciutto reporting. thank you so much for joining us. anderson continues the breaking coverage now. >> erin, thanks. good evening, everyone. a lot of news braking tonight including a dire warning from the director of the centers for disease and prevention. winter could bring a second wave of the coronavirus. he says, and i'm quoting, there's a possibility that the assault of the virus on our nation next winter will actually be even more difficult than the one we just went through. this is because he says it would likely coincide with the seasonal flu outbreak putting another massive strain on hospitals, having to deal with both the coronavirus and the seasonal flu at the same time. director redfield, who was not at tonight's task force briefing was asked about the anti-stay-at-home