it's not going to kill the virus with the speed that's being suggested. and based on our experiences in australia and in other countries in the southern hemisphere, i wouldn't predict it's going to completely disappear because it gets warmer out. i want to echo the prior guest's comments that going out in the sun or exposing yourself to the high intensity uv lamps is not going to protect you from covid-19. i don't want people to think there is a miracle cure to risk dangerous consequences because of the statements of the president tonight. >> yeah. i mean, that's really important for people to hear. the other thing on this chart which i wanted to ask is a specific question is about aerosol transmission. right? we had understood it spread via droplet transmission, and there had been i guess at this point maybe the assumption given what we've seen that there was aerosol. they appear to be confirming that and that in temperatures of a nice summer day, 70 to 75

degrees, in an aerosol environment it could live two hours, and that, i suppose on one level, is that something to feel good about, that that is less than in colder temperatures or is that something to be concerned about but still in any kind of crowded situation in the summer you could have pure aerosol with coronavirus for up to two hours? >>. >> we know the virus is spread by both droplets and aerosol. what i would say is everyone needs a mask when they go out. wherever you go into a public place, you need a mask to protect mostly your community but also to a certain degree yourself. wear a mask. >> and doctor ray, let me give you a chance to respond to that. how much calm should we attack

if all this bears out? this is what they're putting forth. it would still live in summer temperatures, aerosol for two hours? >> i mean, two hours is a long time. right? if you're going to the grocery store and someone coughs or sneezes directly on you, you don't have two hours to wait. if i'm working in my emergency department and i'm face to face with a patient, the fact that it's warm outside is not going to protect me. so two hours is great, and it means it may live for less time on surfaces like playgrounds or tennis courts or other things outdoors, but inside in air-conditioning or where there's not sunlight or if you're in the direct face to face situation, it's not going to protect us. i think we can see there will likely be a decrease in the number of cases but not a disappearance, and again, sunlight is not a panacea. it is not going to be a cure-all. it is not going to save us from the virus. >> and places like singapore where they're seeing records is obviously tropical.

kaitlyn collins is with us. you were in the briefing room. obviously the president extremely defensive when interacting with you and others. >> reporter:. he was. it's not clearly why. the question seemed to be obvious one about rick bright, the official leading the agency that was leading the charge on vaccine production that says he was removed from part of his job as retaliation because he wanted further scientific vetting on high driving while intoxicated cloor quinn. -- hydroxychloroquine. the white house hasn't responded to the allegations by bright who says he plans to file a whistleblower complaint. it's unusual the president wouldn't want to respond where bright said he feels there was political pressure to fund certain drugs and that's the power he has in charge of that agency. he picked which vaccines they're going to purchase and fund to

hopefully produce. it's unusual the president wouldn't answer questions about rick bright. yesterday he denied knowing the official. people have filled the president in on it since then, certainly, because of the situation ongoing that he's going to file the complaint. you saw democrats telling our colleague they wanted to speak to dr. rick bright as well about what his allegations are about what was happening over at the department of health and human services, but we did not get answers to those questions here tonight. >> john king? >> it's a fair question. there will be a paper trail about dr. bright and his leaving. he's made his statements. he has an attorney. calling himself a whistleblower. this is going to play out through the process and the likes. it's another example of let's assume for the sake of argument that the president did not know and did not know that this had happened. it would not be the first time someone in the administration, someone more senior did something because they thought it was what the president

wanted. remember, mr. muldy who just left, the commander of the uss theodore roosevelt. i think it's over 700 sailors in that ship who tested positive for covid-19. the acting secretary at the time fired him and it was clear he thought that's what the president would like because the captain had his letter leaked where he was begging for help with the outbreak on his ship. it was a chain of command issue, but it was not the first time someone in the administration thought this is how i cover favor with the president. this person disagrees with the president and wants to put science, caution, process, protocol over the president's zeal for hydroxychloroquine, he's gone. we'll get more on this. congress is going to get involved. there will be a paper trail. he has an attorney now. we will get more answers but if the president wants to have these briefings, stand there and walk into the room and again, it's his house. but there's a tradition.

i was there for almost a decade. it's not his room. i know it's part of his house. trump supporters will say of course it's his room, the brady briefing room, that's viewed as a special temple for the first amendment. if he wants to come in there and have the show and tell, he should have to answer questions too. the fact he won't answer the questions tells you something. >> that's exactly what that is and the relationship with the press is meant to be tough and adversarial. that's the nature of it. that's not bias. that's what reporters do. daniel, in watching that going through some of the fact checks what stands out to you as obviously our nightly fact checker? >> erin, the president said we're getting close to a vaccine and then he amended that to say we're not close on testing because it takes a long time to test vaccines. let's be clear what we're talking about. dr. fauci said this is a minimum of a 12 to 18-month process. other experts think that is

highly optimistic. when we talk about close, we talk about more than a year and possibly well over a year. the president said joe biden doesn't want to debate him because of the coronavirus. he said i'm ready to debate him on zoom or any time any place he wants. that's unfounded. the president also claimed he has dmot stopped hyping up hydroxychloroquine. by the numbers we know that's unclear. there's a chart showing between march 19th and march 25th, he mentioned it 15 times. it's fallen off. over and over again the president is promoting or uttering information that's not true. >> and you mentioned hydroxychloroquine. you've talked a lot about this and the concerns you see as a heart surgeon in terms of the damage that this can do to people with cardiac issues as well as others. there have been studies indicating it's not effective and perhaps dangerous. there was another drug that

people were looking at as possibly helpful, remdesivir. the results of the trial seemed to be accidentally posted online. this is an existing drug. if it worked, it would have been quick to get in the pipeline and again, the posting said the drug was not effective. the drug maker says not so fast. don't read much into this. we have more to say. we'll see. but the question i want to ask is if you start taking out the existing drugs that we already knew many of the risks and some of the possible benefits, right? and then all of a sudden you're going to look at unproven drugs, how long, how much damage does that do to the possibility of a quick and very effective treatment if the existing drugs do not work? >> well, first of all, there are over 20 drugs being evaluated for a treatment of the coronavirus. so there are a lot of drugs in the pipeline. it's really not just hydroxy

chloroquine or remdesivir. there are different avenues. the report about remdesivir was a small 300 or so patient report which was published in a website for the world health organization. apparently erroneously. i read the piece, and it looks like at least from that initial report there wasn't really much of a benefit to rem disveer. we should have better data within the next several weeks. we'll have to say. there are a lot of irons in the fire here. if one of these initial drugs don't work, we have many other potential therapeutics in the pipeline being evaluated. >> so doctor, let me ask you. this also comes as we find out on the day the president is talking about the sunlight getting rid of this this summer is his implication. a new model suggests there were tens of thousands of early cases of coronavirus in the united states that went undetected. now, this is as we've heard from the cdc and dr. birx, they say

we have a flu monitoring system when cases start to come back up as the economy reopens, we are going to see them. we have an existing system. what this shows is that back on march 1st there were 23 confirmed cases. there would have been as many as 28,000 infections in fa. either the flu modelling didn't work or is there the possibility that the symptoms here have become much more severe over that time? do we know which it could be? >>. of us in the intensive care units across the country have been talking about how this is a particularly bad flu season. the cdc flu monitoring measured were respiratory symptoms and presumably now if they see a bump the in the number of respiratory symptoms they'll say this is probably covid-19 coming back. back in february, we weren't testing for it. no one had reported community transmission in the united states. so those pieces were thought to

be just flu. right? i don't think we can dismiss the cdc system altogether, but this does confirm the suspicions of many of us on the front lines wondering if this was in the country earlier than reported. >> it doesn't make you fear -- >> a much more serious virus. >> that's the question i guess is that makes sense what you're saying. so the question of did the symptoms somehow become more severe over that time or some sort of change here, you're not as concerned about that? >>. >> i think covid-19 is a much more serious day than the flu. case fatality rate is high nemplt the way it presents in the emergency room is worse. we have no immunity to the virus. right now in this country it was more dangerous than the flu and it was before we detected it. i hope the cdc will track the illnesses and know it includes

co-vid. i don't think it's become more serious in the last couple months? >> jim acosta, again, the backdrop to this conversation is the president tonight talking about whatever infections or something that a person could do to protect themselves. to disinfect themselves. but his overall point being that if it comes back in the fall or you know, it's going to be gone by then which has been directly refuted by dr. anthony fauci on the very same podium the president stood on tonight 24 hours ago saying there is one thing i am certain of and that is coronavirus will be here in the fall. >> that's right, erin, and it seems there's a pattern. every step along the way the president wants to inject if i may use the word optimism into the debate over the coronavirus. and treatments and how long it's going to last and where we are as a country and so on. and that i suppose is all well and good, but it has to be backed up by science, and one of the things we've noticed and

daniel was talking about to some extent, what we've also noticed in recent weeks is you're seeing less of the scientists and experts at the briefings and more of trump. it really is backwards, because what the public needs at these coronavirus briefings is tested scientific information and one of the things that we've heard from dr. fauci over and over again when it comes to treatments for the coronavirus, that is going to be done in clinical trials, and these clinical trials are vigorous and it takes time for the top scientists in the country to agree upon a treatment for something as serious as the coronavirus. that same process is going to take place right now. i was talking to a source close to the task force earlier today about hydroxychloroquine, and it is frustrating, yes. obviously it's frustrating to the scientists when they don't have the answers when they can't come out and say one way or the other, but this source was basically urging me to be patient. these trials are going to end.

the studies are going to end. we're going to have a better sense sooner rather than later, hopefully as to what is going to be an effective treatment for the coronavirus, but to come out to the briefing room as the president did weeks ago and was pumping up hydroxychloroquine, like his allies on fox news were, and now because that appears to be not the best treatment for coronavirus based on some initial studies, he's moved onto other junk science, and i think at some point the scientists have to reign him in and say you have to stop doing this because lives are at risk. people could follow the advice and get hurt. >> and kaitlyn collins we're finding out when it comes to even the state of georgia opening up well before any of the guidelines from the white house says that any state should do so, the president seemed to indicate he was supportive of governor kemp in every way, and i know you've been reporting well, it turned out that dr. anthony fauci was in those meetings saying you cannot say that. you cannot say that.

you must change. indeed, the president did, but this seems to be really a coming to head between the president and some of these scientists particularly to be frank, dr. fauci. >> that's what's interesting to see how the week progressed. dr. birx was asked about that multiple times and we asked about south carolina and their opening measures, not following the guidelines the white house put out. initially dr. birx was saying she hoped people could follow the guidelines but if they could be creative by opening salons and tattoo parlors, she wasn't going to judge them. dr. fauci came out yesterday and said he did not believe that was right step for the georgia governor to be taking and the president seconded it tonight saying he did not agree with what governor kemp is doing. and governor kemp is an ally to the president. he's met with the president in the oval office, and the president does not agree with the measures. but i want to point out one interesting thing the president said where after earlier today in an interview dr. fauci said

he didn't think the nation was where they needed to be on testing and was talking about ramping it up. the president said he had not seen the comments but he disagreed with what dr. anthony fauci was saying about the level of testing not being where it needs to be in the country. as the president insisted, it is and governors have said it simply is not? >> all right. thank you, kaitlyn, and thank you to all of you. i want to talk now more about president trump's collision course. you know, with the scientists on his coronavirus task force, as we must mentioned contradicting dr. anthony fauci tonight on testing capacity in the united states. >> we absolutely need to significantly ramp up not only the number of tests but the capacity to actually perform them. i am not overly confident right now at all -- >> we're doing very well on testing.

i don't agree. >> that comes as one of president trump's top doctors said he was pulled from working on a coronavirus vaccine because he wanted more vetting for that anti-malaria drug, hydroxychloroquine that the president touted as a possible game changer was his favorite description for that. up front you joel clemen. he spent seven years under president obama and president trump. said he was reassigned as a top climate change official as retaliation for his views on climate change. joel, thank you for being with me. let me ask you, how much pressure, people are trying to understand when the president comes out and says one thing and some of the members of the task force are more polite than others in terms of how they push back. how much pressure comes from the president to push his desired narratives despite what the science may say. >> well, that political pressure is not just from the president but from his cabinet members on scientists and professionals and

experts partly because now we know they have this anti-science agenda which is to suppress the science, promote theories, marginize and sideline scientists and experts and promote people willing to toe the party line. that means they're going to punish those who don't toe the party line. it's a constant tension between the civil servants there to protect us and the political appointees? >> dr. fauci, obviously there's the difference on testing and dr. fauci is in line with the science. you know? the global harvard health director said i haven't met a single professional who didn't think we need a lot more testing moments after the president said there's a lot of professionals out there who aren't that big on testing. well, there aren't. dr. fauci has been pushing testing. he's been saying coronavirus is not going away. moments after the president said that it might go away. tonight dr. fauci was not at the white house briefing. do you think in any way that his

job, his position may be in danger because he continually is going against the president on some of these crucial issues whether it's hydroxychloroquine not being ready or testing or the virus itself? >> well, certainly his job is in danger. i think we're all holding our breath hoping he keeps it. we're seeing evidence from within the agencies that jobs like that are in danger and we've recently heard about dr. bright and his reassignment which was similar to what i went through as a whistleblower at interior. that constant concern about our professionals in there looking to protect us is warranted, and i sure hope as does most of america, that dr. fauci keeps that job because we need experts there. we cannot take our advice from the president certainly on this issue. >> and you talk about the dr. fauci issue. you mention rick bright. yesterday the president claimed that his cdc director was going to make a correction. "the washington post" reported and put in quotes that redfield

said a second wave of coronavirus in the fall could be worse. and redfield then when read the quote directly admitted it was accurate. here's that example and another. >> he was misquoted. totally misquoted. >> i'm accurately quoted in the washington post. >> that might not come back at all. >> we will have coronavirus in the fall. >> what goes on behind the scenes when we hear that in front of the camera? >> honestly, erin, i haven't the faintist idea how they're handling that. that is unprecedented. this level of political interveerns in the scientific work that's taking place to protect us is unprecedented and we've certainly seen this. there was a survey two years ago by colleagues at the union of concerned scientists. they surveyed federal scientists in 16 agencies and found even two years ago there was an

unprecedented level of political interference in science. there was a paper analyzing those results. this is new territory. i think we're all wondering how on earth a president of the united states can say these kinds of things in public. these kinds of conversations may have happened in the past, but certainly not in the public eye and certainly not with the intent to sideline scientists and to grab the spotlight away from the experts. it's really remarkable and frankly, i can't imagine what it's like to be in that room. >> all right. joel, i appreciate your time and your perspective since you have been there. >> thank you. >> as a scientist, thank you. >> thank you. and you know the influential model the white house often cites. it's been updated. it shows some states should wait even longer to reopen safely. one of them on the list is georgia where as you may know, the most aggressive plan to reopen goes into effect in just a few hours. that model now says georgia should wait until june 22nd. that would be two months before it allows salons, gyms and other

businesses to reopen. they are reopening tomorrow. nick watt is out front live in los angeles. health officials there are saying coronavirus is now the leading death. you know, when you look at across this country, more than heart disease, more than cancer, and now number one where you are too in los angeles county. >> yes. so they are saying, erin, that among the diseases that they track, covid-19 is now the deadliest taking an average of 44 lives every day. used to be heart disease at 31. and a lot of people have been trying to compare co-vid with the flu. for what this is word, covid-19 is killing 44 people a day in l.a. county on average. the flu is only killing 5. meanwhile, we are also getting some very interesting new data out of new york. >> the number of people infected by this rampant virus in new

york state, the global hot spot might be a stunning ten times higher than we thought. >> it tells us this virus is much more widespread. >> phase one of an antibody testing program suggests as many as 2 .7 million new yorkers might have already been infected but the state's current confirmed case count is just under 270,000. >> 13.9% tested positive for having the antibodies. they had the virus. they developed the antibodies. and they are now, quote, unquote, recovered. >> new york's death toll of around 19,500 is certainly almost too low. >> that number is going to go up. those deaths are only hospitalizations or nursing home deaths. that does not have what are called at home deaths. >> now, a higher infection rate

could mean this virus is actually less deadly than we thought. kills fewer of those who get it, and -- >> we are developing some immunity. there are people with mild illness and don't know they're sick. they may be how we open up. >> but new york is not opening up yet. >> we need to see how this is playing out in each community and have the ability to test thoroughly and protect citizens before we think about opening up. >> we absolutely need to significantly ramp up -- i am not overly confident right now at all -- >> whenever we open, cases will likely rise. >> we're never going to come up with something that gives you a zero possibility that you're going to spread the virus. what we want to do is make sure you reduce the possibility. >> reporter: in miami dade, despite a new case count that's not consistently coming down in the accordance with the white

house reopening guidelines, apparently they're planning to open golf courses and parks with twists. >> you'll be able to play singles tennis but not doubles. >> reporter: meat packing plants seeing outbreaks. tyson just closed the fourth facility in washington state, a beef processing plant to test all employees. this place usually produces enough beef every day to feed 4 million people. not anymore. >> reporter: and we hear that tyson might be closing another plant monday in tennessee for a deep clean. unclear how many co-vid cases are connected to that plant. my colleague also spoke with the uscw union. they told her 13 plants have closed nationwide. significantly dropping the capacity for meat production in this country. and erin, they also say that 13

workers so far have died. >> all right. nick watt, thank you very much. and i want to go now straight to dean banks, the president of tyson foods. obviously one of the biggest processors and providers in the country. dean, i appreciate your time. thanks for coming back. when we look at the plants, you have closed right now, my understanding is you've got four closed. others remain open. one in ten tied to 120 cases. one in georgia where there are four deaths and one in texas where a suspected outbreak is being investigated. as you've been saying, you're going above and beyond cdc guidance. how is this happening in plant after plant? >> erin, first off, thank you for having me on. i want to thank the tyson team members. tyson is a family of more than 10 0,000 people in the united states and we operate globally with more than that, of course. those team members are the most

dedicated i've seen to feeding the country. we've taken a tremendous amount of precautions in the facilities whether it's hand sanitizer. i've visited. you mask up, get gowned. you can put on face protection. you walk into your work. your work space and you have barriers on all sides to make sure this disease is not spreading within our plants, and we are fully committed to team member safety. >> but yet it is spreading. so how is it spreading? what you describe is a situation that sounds almost medical in nature, and yet, these are really serious outbreaks happening at plant after plant and people have been dying. >> what we've seen is that our plants live within a community. we participate in a community. we donate food to the communities and we're part of that community. from everything we've seen, the spread of the disease in the community is affecting us in the plant. we have produced a number of

campaigns to encourage our team members to social distance at home. we've provided masks for team members to give to their families to keep the disease out of our plants. >> nic was mentioning our reporter talking to workers in waterloo, iowa. that linked to 150 cases. they say they're not working in safe conditions and it's impossible to stand six feet apart. the workstation dividers went in only a week ago. and even though you mandated that, they say on april 7th, they say the masks are not provided on a regular basis and they were given bandannas at one point that were fraying. how do you explain this? are you aware of all these issues? >> this disease has been moving fast. we were extremely early in providing as many protective measures as we can imagine. as far as your team members giving us input to take care of them. some have suggested early in the process protective measures to

take and they are now deployed across all the facilities. like everyone we're learning how the disease works and spreads. we've taken a tremendous amount of caution. we've even brought in the cdc, local health officials. we've brought in epidemiologists to look at our facilities. and some county health officials have told us they believe our plants are some of the safest places in the county for our team members to be. >> so, again, just so we understand, because i know the headlines we keep seeing is meat plant after meat plant after meat plant. why is it spreading so much? you know, because what you're describing is not reflected in the numbers. you have a lot of rural towns and there's the plant and the plant is clearly the epicenter of the spread. >> like i said, erin, we live in these communities. we're temperature testing every single team member. everyone knows without an abundance of testing that is by far the best way to detect this disease early. we send people temperature testing out into the public health field so they can make sure they get tests.

that doesn't happen in the broader community. we're doing everything we can to make sure we take care of our team members>> are you offering them additional pay? >> we did. >> our company put forward 60 million there are to make sure our team members working hard with us through the crisis are rewarded for their effort. tyson is also -- has a very, very long history of taking care with competitive pay, benefits, short-term disability that if they present with any form of symptom, we take care of them through the crisis. they can come can to us and tell us if they're experiencing symptoms and they can go -- >> full paid leave? >> yes. >> so this has all fuelled concerns about the food supply. when we spoke last month you told me you were, quote, confident we're going to be able to continue to keep the shelves stock. now more than 15% of pork production is shut down, not just your plants but other plants from companies aside from

tyson. the president of one of your subsidiaries told cnbc consumers will see an impact at the grocery store as production slows. what will that look like, dean? >> we are doing everything can to get the plants up and running. hopefully we're getting abundance of testing we'll be able to get the facilities up and running quickly again and feed the american people. the vast majority of our plants have no cases. we have a small minority of plants that have a single small single digit percentage of cases and a hand full of plants where we've seen more disease and that's reflective of what's going on in the broader community. we are doing everything we can to make sure we keep the shelves stocked for the american people. >> but there will be some impact? >> there will be some impact. the usda reported pork and beef supplies are down between 20% and 30%. we're doing everything in our power to get them ramped back up. >> dean, i appreciate your time.

again, thank you. >> thank you, erin. >> and next, americans are told to wear masks in public, but which ones work and which ones don't? sanjay gupta joins with a special report. plus it's a major undertaking. one california town becoming one of the first places in the world to try to test every single resident for both the coronavirus and antibodies for us. the doctor behind the study is my guest. and when restaurants are allowed to reopen, how long can they survive if they have to drastically reduce capacity? the former ceo of starbucks is my guest. they are the heroes, the helpers - working on the front lines, and here's one small way that you can help them in return. complete your 2020 census today. 2020 census data helps communities plan funding for hospitals, clinics, and emergency services across the country.

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that liberty mutual customizes your insurance, i just love hitting the open road and telling people so you only pay for what you need! [squawks] only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ tonight, colorado becoming just the ninth state to make masks mandatory for some residents. three weeks after the cdc said all americans should wear them in public. the big question now is well, what kind of masks should you actually be wear that does anything? dr. sanjay gupta is out front. >> now that we know about 25 to 50% of the people are spreading a -- >> reporter: while the white house recommends we wear face masks in public, some have made it mandatory. >> i signed an executive order which will require the wearing of masks or face coversings when

inside any retail establishments. >> reporter: many are left wondering which mask offers the best protection. when we talk about face coverings, there are the surgical masks i wear in the hospital to protect patients from my own germs and avoid any splashes. and then there are the n 95 respirator masks that must be fit tested in order to protect health care workers during certain procedures. it's the only one of the masks that prevents most very small particles from getting in when used properly. we need to keep those masks in their hands. then there are the disposable cloth masks. they aren't made for surgery or hospitals but are also widely used. the cdc recommended that we all wear cloth face masks like this one. my daughter made this one when we go out in public and we can't physically distance from each other. and keep in mind the reason is not so much to protect ourselves but to protect others from us.

it should come as no surprise that these medical grade masks are more effective. but that doesn't mean we should dismiss the benefit of cloth masks. let me show you. take a look at this experiment done by researchers at the national institutes of health. they use lasers to help show how far spit travels through the air when we talk. watch how far the green dots go when he speaks. without the lasers, these droplets might be invisible to the naked eye. now with the cloth, we barely see anything. >> it comes out in the form of a gas cloud, and the wearing of masks, therefore, could be even if they're not high grade, a way to contain the range of the cloud. >> reporter: lydia is a professor at mit who studies the physics behind how diseases spread through coughing, sneezing and breathing. >> sneezes have the highest momentum can then have these drops reach distances of up to 8 meters to 26 feet.

coughs are second in line in terms of momentum and they can basically bring drops up to 16 to 19 feet and rain drops further to the source around 6 or 8 7 feet. >> you can see why wearing mask in addition to social distancing is so important. your germs can travel far. >> we also want to make sure that the mask is also clean. right? so it doesn't also become a source of secondary contamination. >> reporter: and you don't have to be a whiz with the sewing machine, like my daughter. an old t shirt or bandanna will do this. it's about having some form of barrier with multiple layers. i think culturally we're not used to wearing masks in the united states. but like so many of the things recently, we're starting to adapt. i want to point out the cdc does not recommend face coverings for children under 2. for anyone who has trouble breathing or for people who can't remove the cover without assistance. and when you take off your mask,

be careful not to touch your eyes or your face or anything outside of the mask. keep it as clean as possible. also, erin, i can't say this point enough. this is not supposed to be a substitute for social distancing. when you can, you should stay home. and stay safe. erin? >> all right. sanjay, thank you. he's going to be back in a few minutes. our global town hall on coronavirus coming up at the top of the hour. so you're going to see him there. i want to go back to dr. jonathan ryaner. you obviously have talked a lot about the importance of masks. a couple of points. you know, originally we were told that the only masks that really worked were those ones in the hospital. that may be true. with the lasers they showed a fabric can do a lot. it can make a big difference. i guess does it -- when the president says you can wear a scarf or something, pretty much anything is good? >> well, i think anything is better than nothing.

there have been a lot of studies where people have actually taken all kinds of face coverings from the lab to study this. one of the big differences between sort of a homemade cloth moosk and a surgical mask is the surgical mask fits better so it's significantly better that the blocking some of the droplets coming out of your mouth, but what i'm troubled by is if we had enough surgical masks, we would recommend everyone wears surgical masks. what happened when the cdc recommended cloth masks wasn't because the public is better served by wearing cloth masks. it's that we didn't have surgical masks for 329 million people, and all of the health care providers in this country. so it was kind of a compromise for adding some protection for when we go out without

cannibalizing the supplies we need at the hospital. >> i've noticed people are wearing their masks when they are within six feet. right? when they're not, they don't need to. but when they are within six feet, they're wearing them. but one thing it seems to be inadvertently possibly encouraging is a lack of social distance. that people seem to believe because they have one on that there's a sense of security and let's say getting on an elevator with somebody or having a conversation with somebody. and that is the great risk, is it not? >> yeah. i completely agree. it's just one element of protecting ourselves when we need to go out in public. you really want to maintain social distancing, you need to wash your hands e over and over and over again during the day. keep your distance from people. put your arm up over your face if you have to cough or sneeze because particles will come through whatever you're wearing. all the common sense practices

to prevent spread of respiratory pathogens we need to continue to do. eventually everyone will wear more effective masks. we're going to have to wear masks for a long time, and as our industry comes up to speed, we'll have better masks to wear. >> all right. doctor, thank you. >> my pleasure. >> and in california a potentially ground breaking coronavirus study is underway right now. the remote town of balinas north of san francisco is looking to do something no other place has done. looking to test every single person, every resident for both active coronavirus and the antibodies for coronavirus. literally this is one of the first places in the entire planet to do this. up front is dr. brian greenhouse, a professor at the university of california san francisco and he's wearing his mask demonstrating how it should be done. one of the investigators involved in the study. i appreciate your time, doctor. the testing is taking place as we speak.

how is it going so far? >> it's going fantastic. we have an entire community mobilized around the testing here. we've got a large community from ucsf volunteering and chipping in time to help make the testing a reality. i'm blown with with how amazing everyone has been and how serve bring what they have to offer to make this reality for this community. >> okay. so i know you're trying to figure out a lot of things. that's why you picked this place. it's small. you can get it done and see the results. why do you think it's necessary to test for both things at the same time? both the coronavirus and the antibodies for it? >> that's a great question. there's two different reasons why we're doing this. we're testing for the pcr providing people with information they need about whether they're infected right now so they can take the actions to protect themselves, their community against further

spread. that's actually surveillance but surveillance as an intervention. we're hoping people act on the information we provide back to them and provide to the department of public health right away. the oibantibodies answer the question how much infection has been going on in this community over the past few weeks or months? antibody testing is an incredibly useful epidemiology tool that allows us to understand accurately how much transmission has been going on in a place over time. >> all right. two questions to that point. first of all, we know we understand the math of how antibody tests can be -- they can yield you half of the ones you get back can be wrong if a lot of people haven't been exposed. how confident are you with the results of the antibody test? >> that's an excellent question. and something that we as scientists are trying to figure out. we are fairly comfortable with the tests we're using that they will provide a high specificity, meaning we are going to do everything we can to minimize

false positive tests. and in terms of the sensitivity, they also look excellent with the current assays. i will say one of the great advantages of this study is not only do we have test lines up to test right away, but even though we're only getting a very small amount of blood from a finger stick, we'll have enough left over as new tests box available if they are better at providing different information that we can use the tests to validate the results? >> when are you going to know how many people have it? >> absolutely. we're aiming to get results back within 27 72 -- 72 hours to participants and the department of health. we're hoping by next week to have all the pcr results back for the entire community. the antibody tests should follow soon after. they're not as urgent because people don't need to act immediately based on the results. we're hoping within a few weeks we'll have some of the results. >> before you go, when you talk about what you're going to see and i know you're going to wait

to give the results when you have them all. we were originally told the first coronavirus death in the united states happened on february 26th th in washington state. we're now finding out that that is wrong and perhaps massively wrong. right? now we're finding out that a 57-year-old woman from santa clara, california had coronavirus and died from that on february 6th. that puts it back obviously nearly a month. how much earlier do you think coronavirus could have been in this country than prooefrsly known? -- previously known? how many people were exposed to it way earlier than we thought? >> that's a great question. the studies we're performing won't help to answer the questions directly, but i think other studies where people are going back and potentially doing additional tests on people that maybe in retrospect had suspected coronavirus but was thought to be something else will help to potentially answer the questions. >> doctor, i appreciate you taking the time and demonstrating that one can breathe and talk and function fully with a mask on for

everybody. thanks, appreciate your time. >> great. thank you very much. and next, a staggering number. 26 million people in this country have lost their jobs in the past five weeks. so what does the government need to do? the former chairman and ceo of starbucks is out front and genie mousse on the extraordinary lengths some businesses are going through to pay their employees. keep it clean with the roomba robot vacuum. only roomba uses 2 multi-surface rubber brushes to clean all your floors.

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get a $50 prepaid card when you switch. it's the most reliable wireless network. and it could save you hundreds. xfinity mobile. tonight 26.5 million americans have filed for unemployment benefits over the past five weeks. that is 16.2% of the entire labor force in the united states of america. it is an incredible number and it's really impossible to sort of understand it. and tonight the house, passing another measure to try to help small businesses, $300 billion they're going to put to small business loans. but is it enough? out front now, howard schultz, former chairman & c.e.o. of

starbucks. you've been talking a lot about this, howard. i want to start first with this amount of money. you've said there needs to be a bridge to a vaccine. so we're already -- when you look at small businesses alone, and obviously a lot of this money has been documented not going to small businesses. it's more than $600 billion. but you say we need to get all the way to a vaccine to bridge for a lot of these companies, especially restaurants. how much money is needed? >> well, let me frame the issue first and then i'll give you the number. there's 30 million small businesses in america today employing about 60 million people. in that group is 500,000 independent restaurants. now, that represents approximately 44% of gdp. everyone says the economic growth, the economic engine of the country is small business. well, it is. now, what's going to happen as a result of the inability of restaurants and small businesses

not having enough money to reopen and make it to a vaccine? there is going to be an economic tsunami for these small businesses in which approximately 10 million small businesses are going to close permanently by labor day. >> 10 million permanently by labor day? >> that's correct. and i don't think anyone realizes what's culling. now, the issue is we only have two to three months left in order to get to these businesses so that they have enough money to reopen. the challenge that they have is ppp is paying their employees enough for the next seven to eight weeks. after that there's no money, no resources and they have to retrain their people for new rules and regulations of how they're going to open. but the most important fact is they're going to open with only 30 or 40% of their volume. and as a result of that, they're not going to be able to sustain the level of profitability necessary. they need an economic bridge to the vaccine. and the cost of not doing this, which would be about a trillion

dollars, will be much, much greater to the economy, the american people in every community in the country of not doing it. >> and you're saying a trillion dollars just from now -- a bridge to a vaccine, things may open. you're pointing out they may not open the way they were before. we've talked to restaurant owners. they can't make payroll, they can't operate if they're not operating to capacity. a bridge to a vaccine, you're saying a trillion dollars starting where we are now, not on top of what -- another trillion dollars in another year. >> let me be clear. this is not a trillion dollars of free money. this is a low-interest long-term transformational loan for every small business in america. and the fed has the ability -- this is an emergency, a crisis like no other. the fed has the ability under the emergency powers act section 13 to do this. and i hope, did this doesn't take place, i hope every voter

who goes to a restaurant, who goes to a small business will understand that these businesses were left for dead by this administration and we have an opportunity right now to scream from the rafters, these people don't have a lobbying organization. they don't have a lot of resources. they must be saved. these are hard-working families. not only statistics who deserve an opportunity. and the most humane thing to do by the government is it to save them because they deserve it. >> so explain from the perspective, obviously, of starbucks. obviously that's a huge company. the point is each individual store is what many restaurants around it would be dealing with in terms of rules capacity. on may 4th, i know starbucks says it's going to reopen as many stores as it can. what is that going to look like, do you think, howard? are people going to be able to sit there at all? i would imagine every one of those stores -- again, you're a company that can handle a lot. it's going to take a huge hit in terms of business. >> well, starbucks is an anomaly. there's all these small

businesses. we have the resources and the balance sheet to manage through the most severe storm here. we're going to be opening with drive-thrus and pickup windows and a lot of space between our customers, and we're clearl not going to be at 100% parity. no business is going to be. the economic issues for a large company like starbucks, yes, it's going to be difficult but we will manage, sure. for a small business, an independent restaurant that operates month to month, they don't have the cash resources, they don't have the ability to get through this. and i'm telling you, i hope you play this interview by labor day because if we do not save these busine businesses, you're going to see 10 million small businesses go out of business, millions of people unemployed. the other issue, these are small businesses, independent restaurants that represent the social fabric of every community. it's not just a business. these are people that are part of the community, part of the humanity and social fabric of our neighborhood. >> all right, howard, thank you very much. i appreciate that. thank you.

>> you're welcome. >> and on a much lighter note, you know the old saying money does not grow on trees, but what about walls of bars? here's jeanne. >> reporter: they're getting something to line authorize pockets thanks to something that used to line the walls. dollars plastered with messages and then slapped on the walls of places like the sand bar in georgia. hot legs in fort lauderdale. and hamburger joe's in north myrtle beach, where the slogan is bite my buns. when coronavirus took a bite out of business, owners raised the bar. >> we literally had money on the walls and time on our hands. >> reporter: so they put their hands to work, prying offer all that cash to give to laid-off employees. it took the establishment anywhere from a few days to a couple of weeks to take down the bills. >> some of the money is in not

the best condition. some of it had been up for 30 years of hamburger grease and dust and good memories. >> reporter: but it was good money. around $6,000 at hamburger joe's. >> when you tear them off, you have to tape them back together. you have to keep the serial numbers together. >> reporter: hot legs retrieved as much as 10,000 bucks to take to the bank. >> i don't think fake legs is dealing with us. we had over 20 staples. >> reporter: at the sand bar they peeled off over $3,700. an anonymous donor doubled it. one bartender said she was okay financially and gave her 600 bucks to this bartender. >> what? >> reporter: who works elsewhere. >> oh, my god. that will pay my rent. >> reporter: the mermaid once surrounded by bills is looking a little lonely without them. at hot legs, the cohener says -- >> the bar looks too clean right now. >> reporter: he'll be happy when they 125start attaching money

again. everybody knows money doesn't grow on trees. money grows on arch ways and ceilings and corners. it sprouts from the rafters. jeanne moos, cnn. >> got a dollar bill. >> reporter: new york. >> and cnn's coronavirus fact and fears town hall begins now. ♪ ♪ >> thanks for joining us. i'm anderson cooper in new york. >> i'm dr. sanjay gupta. this is our cnn town hall coronavirus facts and fears. >> this is our 8th consecutive town hall. the way we put the town halls has changed with the knowledge of the virus, but we intend to keep on rolling with the changes and doing them for as long as we can. as for the circumstances for tonight's edition, dr. anthony fauci described them this way. this is, he said, a very

critical time. he said the d