we'll learn it's been around. let's be honest again, we don't know what numbers were really talking about. why? there's not enough testing. they don't test people in places that are a symptomatic. even though the transmission is real thing. and could be most contagious before you get symptoms. we have progress. a new model from northeast university. what does it show. this virus was silently infecting tens of thousands of people in new york and other major cities way earlier than previously thought. it is backed up by an antibody study here in new york. i told you we would learn it's been here longer than we thought. here's nick watt with the story. >> the number of people infected by the rampant virus in new york state, the global hot spot. might be ten times higher than we thought.

>> phase one of the antibody testing program suggests that as many as 2.7 million new yorkers might have already been infected. but the state current confirmed case count is just under 270,000. >> 13% tested positive for having the antibody. they had the virus. they developed antibodies and they are now quote on quote recovered. >> new york death toll of around 19,000 is almost certainly also too low. >> that number is going to go up. those deaths are only hospitalizations or nursing home deaths. that doesn't have what are called at home deaths. >> a higher infection rate could

>> new york is not opening up. not yet. >> we need to see how it's playing out in each community and have the ability to test and protect citizens before we think about opening up. >> we absolutely need to significantly ramp up -- i'm not overly confident right now at all. >> where ever, whenever with open, cases are likely rise. >> we're never going to dom up with something a zero probability or possibility that you'll spread the virus. what we want to do is make sure you reduce the possibility. >> in miami-dade despite a new case count that is not consistently coming down, with the white house reopening guidelines. they are planning to open golf courses sp parks with twists.

>> you will be able to play tennis. singles but not double. you have to jog in a certain direction. there are differences. >> meat packing plants still seeing out breaks across the country. tyson closed the fourth facility. a beef processing plant in washington state. to test all employees. this place usually produces enough beef every day to feed 4 million people. not anymore. >> all right. our thanks to nick watt for that favor tonight. what do we need? start with a plan. this has to be a function of planning and thought and consideration. the president on the other hand he's just tossing out ideas. >> i'm here to present talent. to present ideas. we want ideas to get rid of this thing. if heat is good and sunlight is good. that's a great thing as far as i'm concerned.

>> uv light on surfaces. may kill the virus. nobody is talking about using uv light or disinfectant in the body. the way the president talked about it. you notice even dr. burkes was at loss to explain how it makes sense. okay? this idea just happened to be the one that he thinks works for him politically. why? what does it mean for us in healthcare policy? what does it under mine, let's talk to a doctor. the director of the global health institute at harvard university. good to have you on the show. >> thanks for having me. >> now, easiest question of the

night. i'm right on the science here and the factual background of context. homeland security official says uv on surfaces. we can do a better job killing this virus it doesn't last as long on surfaces. no shoot light into your body. there was no take a shot of this disinfectant and maybe we have something. nobody said anything like that. did they? >> no. your viewers have to know that is in the a good idea. not a good idea. it will not help with the virus. it will make you very sick and potentially kill you. taking shots of disinfectant is never a good idea. using it on the surface is great. that's fine. nobody should be doing that. >> i'm not being hyper conservative. we have to be open about treatment. there's a lot of stuff we don't know. my wife is a big wellness person.

she takes baths that have baking soda and bleach. and shows me stuff. that's different than a shot of it. and winging that as an idea. from a policy perspective, what's the analysis on this. why does the president fight people like you? fight the science of testing. saying the next wave in the fall will be okay. not that bad. but say something like that or pitch hydroxychloroquine when there's no science behind it. what's your diagnosis? >> it's hard to tell. what we know is that science is the best weapon we have. against this virus. if we use scientific principles of disease outbreak and therapy that are proven, i believe firmly that we can beat this. distractions like drinking or using lysol or shining light inside of you or hydroxychloroquine. it may work. we don't have the scientific

evidence. i really hope every day i hope the president gets back to talking about science and evidence. because that is how we as americans will defeat this virus. >> now, i got hit with the the same stick the president will get. which baseless speculation. mine is this, i think we're going find out this virus has been around a lot longer than just a couple of months. and sure enough the scientists are taking us in that direction. antibody tests in new york. the preliminary findings is like one in five new yorkers. 20%. have been exposed. what does that mean to you, what does it suggest? in terms of a larger picture of what that could mean about how this resolves? >> so there are two points that are worth noting. one is i do think we have evidence that virus has been around longer than we initially thought.

the first cases were in the seattle area end of mid to late january. it's possible there were cases earlier than that in january. maybe december. in california. and other places. in terms of the antibody test that came out today, it says that we know we have been under tested. i have been assuming or estimating that we only have been getting about 10% of people who are infected we are identifying. that's what the numbers suggest. about ten to 12 times as many people have been infected as we have been able to diagnosis. the good news is those people may turn out to be immune. we don't know. if they are, that's good. there are a lot of people with immunity who will be safe from the virus. we don't know if antibodies equals immunity yet. >> that is speculation. usually it's the case. there a lot of stuff that doesn't make sense about covid-19 versus usual.

usually flu doesn't give people sense of smell and taste but no fever and respiratory. and somebody like me, lungs are swelling up and fever. but can smell. we're not used to that. what should we not take from this science and in terms of what it means? >> well, so there's some people saying it looks like we're close to herd immunity. we're not. we have a long way to go. even in new york city which has been hit hard. majority of people 80% of people have not been exposed and are vulnerable. in the rest of the country a vast majority are not. we're nowhere near it. people are susceptible. if that is wrong antibody equals

immunity, we're in big trouble. let science work itself out. we'll know in coming weeks whether having antibodies is protective or not. then we can feel confident. >> lord willing we get to a vaccine. and then hopefully it's one people will take. and that's the best we can do in a situation like this. doctor, thank you for making sense of science for us. as always. >> thanks. i'm glad you're feeling better. >> thank you. i'm one of the lucky ones. i'm blessed. better than i deserve. georgia opening early. texas also beginning to loosen restrictions. starting tomorrow. very soon. it maybe ready to ramp up its own reopening. does it worry the mayor of one of the states biggest cities? let's talk about to him about it. austin. next. when the murray's started using gain ultra flings they fell in love with its irresistible scent.

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so, tomorrow, texas is scheduled to experience one of the first phases of reopening to allow businesses to offer curb-side pickup and delivery. a bigger announcement monday one that he says will quote allow many different types of businesses to open up. let's get insight from mayor steve adler of austin, texas. good to have you on the show. i hope your family is healthy and you're doing well. >> we are. thank you. >> so let me get some different angles of the context. cdc projections say texas should be looking at opening up sometime in mid to late june. no sooner. are you worried about taking any action that contradicts the cdc? >> sure. we're absolutely concerned. we have lots more questions than

we have answers. we don't know exactly what the governor will do. he said he is going to put public health first and he's going to be guided by science and data. we'll hold him to that. that's what we want to see. but as far as the plans he's hinted we don't know the timing. there's so many questions. not only what he'll do but what we know. what we can try. what works, what doesn't work. we need more testing and be able to learn from whatever it is that happens. >> do you feel the need to tell constituents and the governor, wait. they tell you the middle of june. don't do it too soon. we're a huge state. the scale is real. the density is real. especially your city. >> we have been talking about that. we'll continue to talk about it.

we're meeting with business in a big meeting tomorrow. council will be meeting next week in the city. the problem is that we just don't know. we don't know what it is that has been able to get us to the place we're at now. austin, texas differed from new york. we have been able to lower that spike. we haven't felt it. we don't know whether it was the masks and social distancing. maybe those don't have any impact and the on thing that worked is the fact we have been isolating in our homes. we don't know the answer. we start rolling things out, we're doing this big mass social experiment without knowing what the answers are. >> just to be clear, it's not a cdc model. it's modelling the white house relies on. i know it's the same family. i want to keep it straight factually.

it takes us the same point. so my next question is this, do you agree with your lieutenant governor? and his suggestion that basically, sometimes you have to die. so everybody else can have their life. and he's ready for that trade off. why even make a suggestion like that? do you believe that is the proposition? >> let me play something for the audience. >> there are more important things than living. that's saving this country from my children and grandchildren. saving this country. for all of us. >> now. that comment doesn't get the reaction from me that it got on state news. the idea there is something bigger than living. what does he mean? >> you're asking me to explain.

i have no idea. a lot of people saw that -- most of the country i think acted kind of in horror at that. we're out trying to save as many lives as we can. that came out of left field. i will tell you lieutenant governor a weekend ago speaking to republican supporters into the media said that the best thing we did in texas was to cancel south be southwest. the first week in march. he didn't mention that it happened with a democratic mayor and in austin. that's okay. he recognized that pulling down that event has saved many lives. i can't explain that. he doubled down on that statement here a second time on fox. >> on fox. is the key. i wish you well. we'll see what the governor says monday.

it will be unusual to have any kind of statement at this time that is about what's going to happen in june. it suggests something may happen sooner as you have concerns ant what it would mean from austin that you want the country to know about. mr. mayor, you have a platform here. >> i appreciate that. please wish us well. we'll all be waiting to see what happens on monday. >> god bless. i hope you are smart and stay healthy. we'll be watching. look what's the ultimate answer. the best will do is a vaccine. no time soon. so the best we can do right now is what the mayor was talking about. masks, glovs gloves. social distancing. staying home. remember, what's the umbrella? testing. tracing. treating.

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what was once seen as baseless speculation is now getting a basis in science. we have suggestions from testing that this virus has been here longer than originally suspected. and that it is spread much further than testing has told us. each day, each new study the truth is becoming more apparent. still the lion share is mystery when it comes to the virus. it shows how far we are behind in terms of testing and tracing. let's bring in -- he used to run foreign disaster assistance for usaid. good to have you on "prime time."

>> welcome back. >> good to be seen. let me ask you the president's disposition towards testing, we're good on testing. enough with the testing. people think it's not even the best thing. what do you make of that? >> the study that came out of new york today showing that within the city as many as one in five people may have had the virus already. that shows we're nowhere close. that's a higher figure than the official count. it suggests the official testing count for the state is it off by about factor of ten. we're not testing anywhere near where we need to be testing. >> when the president says i disagree with fauci. we're great on testing. is there any defense that justifies it? >> there's no defense. testing numbers have been flat for weeks now. even as case counts go up. if the case counts are going up

and testing volume is not. we have a problem. >> he'll say if i do are to say it's deficient, okay. it's because of you, all the people who came before me. you were not ready for the pandemic. you didn't plan. the tests were a mess and it's on you guys. >> yeah, leave aside the fact they have been in office three years when it hit. they deconstructed many of the tools that we left them from the last administration. we were very disturbed by the lack of global readiness we found when we had to battle ebola. we worked hard in the last few years to put additional things in place. to give them a play book for an event like this. that talked about a novel coronavirus as a tier one threat. they disregarded it. we gave them as many tools as we can. with saw the importance of that for preventing future events

like this. this is not a surprise. this has been expected for a along time. something like this. and we did what we could, was it enough? of course it's never enough. if some of that had been followed i think we would be in a better place than we have are. >> the recovery. the reopening. getting back to normal. people have a hankering for it by the summer. they are hoping in the fall this curve is in the isn't that bad so everybody stays in school and stay in our jobs and no more hiding at home. you're saying get ready for a long road home. two or three years. why would you say something as frightening as that? >> i think it's important to start getting used to the reality. it doesn't mean two or three years like right now. things will remain different in

important ways. we will not have lock downs. but probably some manner of social distancing continuing. for two to three years. and that's going to mean things like large gatherings will be challenging. international travel. discretionary international travel could be a challenge. some of the things are going to be curtailed for an ongoing basis until we get a vaccine widely available. that will probably take two to three years. it's a year to get ideally if everything works. it's a year from when it started to get a candidate that works. call that next february. that's not enough. you need to produce it. and once it's produced at scale, administer it. at scale. it's not easy to produce billions of doses of vaccine. much less to administer them. that will add up to another one to two years before we have enough people vaccinated that we

can start to return to something that looks more like normal until then. >> sobering. all right. let me distract from that headline. to the immediate. how big a difference does it make if the model says we should open a place in the middle of june and open it in the middle of may instead? >> boy, it makes a big difference. we shouldn't be opening based on the model. open based on the evidence. models are only as good as the assumptions built into that. evidence into case data is what we should be using. does it show a sustained low level for a long time. it's not enough for a downward slope. new york has been on a down slope for several weeks. but case counts are high. italy and china the downward

slope lasted a long time. you have to have a low level of cases to reopen. and everywhere in the country case counts are higher than they were when the lock downs and such started. get the cases down before we can take the steps. >> i have a family and all that. i'm desperate to get them out of the house and back to normal as anybody. when i look at my family and the virus working its way through and so many friends where that is going on in their homes too, it's just hard to reconcile the reality with what people want. but as you said, let's see where the data takes us. thank you for the perspective. stay healthy. >> glad you're back. >> this is stressful. the whole situation is stressful. living situations and anxiety. if you get it and deal with it. you are not alone.

nearly half of us say that we're having trouble coping. if you're a parent that number is way higher. let's stop hiding from mental health like it's something you're not supposed to talk about. it is is as real as the fever i had. the stress the depression is as dangerous as, as real as the fever. what does it mean for patients and parents. what does it mean for kids? they're exhibiting signs we have to examine. mental health matters. let's talk about it. next. listerine® cleans virtually 100%. helping to prevent gum disease and bad breath. never settle for 25%. always go for 100. bring out the bold™

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this virus is testing all of us. and it's testing the people on the front lines of this fight most of all. so abbott is getting new tests into their hands, delivering the critical results they need. and until this fight is over, we...will...never...quit. because they never quit. >> all right. how many of the boxes do you

check? how long am i going to be in here? what am i going to do about my job? when can i get back to work? what am i doing with the kids? how am i handling home schooling? my partner, my spouse, they are sick. now one of the kids is sick. i think i'm sick. my finances. how long can i stay like this? how many do you check? nearly half of us are saying we feel worried. we feel stress. because of this virus. it doesn't even mean you have it. just the lifestyle. just the fear. the anxiety. mental health support groups are experiencing a huge increase in calls and requests for help. let's talk about what it means. doctor the chief medical officer of the national alliance on mental illness. i'm embarrassed i haven't had you sooner. we should have been talking about this sooner.

i'm guilty. falling into the stigma of ignoring it. >> you have been busy and i'm glad you're well. i hope your family is well. i want to thank you for taking up the topic of mental health. it's a piece of the pandemic. it will have waves and intensity. >> you have the people who are doling with the virus. i have not spoken to anybody that has said whether it is symptoms and toll of the symptoms and the unknown and the duration, or the virus itself. everybody says brain fog. problems with acuity. depression. a sense of anxiety. those are as real as dealing with a fever. and they can have as much as impact on you physically. true or false? >> true. there is no health without mental health. in the national alliance on

mental illness is here to support people contending with any aspect of the mental health challenges with the pandemic. >> second component. i don't have the virus but i'm worried about getting it. for days. weeks. stuck in my house. dealing with my kids. dealing with my crazy husband/wife. worried about my money. worried about when it ends. is that just feelings? is that something you're supposed to suck it up? how can it manifest itself over time? >> it's important to recognize that many people will have some anxiety or experience of worry. many people will also struggle with the mental health vulnerability that is caused by this. or is on top of whatever they were living with before. one in five americans had a mental health condition before this pandemic began.

and this is generating anxiety, panic. disorder and depression in many people. it's important to recognize it. you are not alone. there are groups all over the country that are here to support you. the mental health field pivoted in a couple days to provide psycho therapy through the computer or flip phone. the mental health field is not a quick moving team for the most part. they pivoted in two days. and all care is delivered virtually now. in the patients like it and the doctors like it. >> how do i know whether or not my feelings are enough to justify reaching out? >> well first of all, acknowledge your feelings. being scared is normal. being worried about your future and finances or something you love will get this is part of the human experience. we typically think about

functioning and safety as core metrics. if you are able to get up and have a structure of a day, which you have to impose upon this disrupted life we have. but you are experiencing something. be in touch with your friends. stay connected to people. i like physical distancing not social distancing. we need each other. we're social creatures. if you're having trouble with functioning or trouble thinking about your safety, you need professional support. and getting an evaluation is pretty easy now given the fields movement toward tell health. if you have video and enabled connection. or a telephone. you can get an assessment. if you want to troubleshoot your vulnerability there's 600 across the nation. the national alliance. they know what it's like to live with a mental health condition and they have your back. >> now you get the last

category. people who have a diagnosis and need meds. the stress calls are spiking. healthcare workers are generating those. people can't get meds because of supply chain issues. they can't get in to see clinicians unless they have video. all the metrics are up and the need is up. people have it think about how to get help. let's end like this, i want everybody to know that they can call the national suicide prevention lifeline. that it is always there. i'll put it up on the screen. 1-800-273 talk. 1-800-273 talk. 1-800-237-8255. maybe you'll forget it. i'm going to tweet it. it will be on twitter. chris cuomo. and it will be there if you need it. doctor, thank you very much. >> thank you so much, chris, for

taking this up and take good care. >> all right. be well. thank you. there's no health without mental health. if you don't feel right, reach out. talk about it. don't hide from your feelings. it doesn't make them better. trust me. coronavirus germs. did you know they can travel more than 25 feet from a sneeze? no, you don't need according to to research in general. doctor sanjay gupta will show us the science that spells out why we all need to think more seriously about wearing masks in public. even the no frills kind can make a difference. how? next. listerine® cleans virtually 100%. helping to prevent gum disease and bad breath. never settle for 25%.

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what do you think the leading cause of death is in los angeles county, california? covid-19.

that's according to the health director there. more than heart disease, copd, or any other disease that they track. we haven't heard that announced in any other part of the nation. one of the biggest ways to protect yourself is by using a mask. it also raises some of the biggest questions. so, let's get some answers. from chief dr. sanjay gupta. >> now that we know about 25% to 50% of people are spreading asymp matically. where cloth face coverings to prevent spread. you wear your mask to protect me. i wear my mask to protect you. >> while the white house recommends we wears face masks in public, some states around the country have started making that mandatory. >> i signed an executive order which will require the wearing of a masks or face coverings when inside any retail establishments. >> many are left wondering which mask offers the best protection.

now, when we talk about-face coverings, there are the surgical masks i wear in the hospital to protect patients from my own germs and avoid any splashes. then there are the n95 respirator masks that must be fit tested in order to protect health care workers during procedures. it's the only one of these masks that prevents most very small particles from getting in when used properly. we need to keep those masks in their hands. then there are the disposable cloth masks which you can buy in a store and online. they are made for surgery or for hospitals but are also widely used. the cdc has recommended that we all wear cloth face masks like this one -- my daughter made this one -- when we go out in public and we can't physically distance from each other. the reason is not so much to protect ourselves but to protect others from us. it should come as no surprise that these medical grade masks

are more effective, but that doesn't mean we should dismiss the benefit of cloth masks. let me show you. take a look at this experiment done by researchers at the national institutes of health. they use lasers to show how far spit droplet travel through the air when we talk. watch how far those green dots go when he speaks. without the lasers, these droplets might be invisit to invisible to the naked eye. with the cloth, we barely see anything. >> come out in the form of a gas cloud. the wearing of mask could be a way to contain the range of that cloud. >> lydia is a professor at mit who studies the physics behind how diseases spread through coughing, sneezing, and breathing. >> sneezing has the highest momentum. they can reach up to 26 feet. coughs are second in line in terms of momentum. they can bring drops up to 19

feet. and inhalations around 6 to 7 feet. >> keep in mind you should primarily stay home, and if you have symptoms, that's not debatable. you can see now why wearing a mask in addition to physical distancing is important. your germs can travel far. >> you want to make sure that the mask is clean so it doesn't become a source of secondary contamination. >> you don't have to be a whiz with the sewing machine like my daughter. an old t-shirt or bandana will do. ultimately it's about having a barrier with multiple layers. >> wearing these other masks would be protecting others. and if everybody does it, there is a range reduction that would be beneficial for the overall population. >> you saw the green light thing, right? that got you watching that spital come out, didn't it. dr. sanjay gupta thank you as always.

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the most aggressive plan to reopen a u.s. state set to get underway in georgia despite a warning from doctors. cars as far as the eyes can see. people waiting for food as unemployment in the u.s. climbs. and the united kingdom begins human trials on a potential vaccine. we're live from our cnn studios in atlanta. welcome to our viewers here in the united states and around the world. i'm natalie allen and this is "cnn newsroom."