of this moment, the u.s. fatality total due to covid-19 has passed 77,000. and we are nowhere near the end point. plus, the indirect total might be twice that. and an analysis conneducted by well-being trust has estimated 17,000 could die because of drug and alcohol misuse and suicide as a result of the "csikr coron pandemic. the group said in a report yesterday, the economic downturn and stress caused by isolation and lack of a definitive end date for the pandemic could significantly increase the so-called depth of despair. dr. benjamin miller telling cnn unless we get comprehensive federal, state and local resources behind improving access to high quality mental health treatments and community supports, i worry we're likely to see things get far worse when

it comes to substance and misuse and suicide. n the 2008 recession, deaths from both suicide and drug overdoses rose along with unemployment. and in that instance, unemployment only went from 4.6% in 2007 to a peak of 10% in october of 2009. today's unemployment rate, 14.7%. and the labor department said the rate would have been about 20%, if workers who had said they were absent from work for other reasons had been classified as unemployed or furloughed. the labor department reported that we lost 25.5 million jobs in april in what was the worst report since the bureau of labor statistics started keeping such report since 1958. we're talking levels not seen since the great depression. no wonder people's patience is fraying. they're eager to get out of their homes and get back to

work. and there's a question whether the goalposts are being moved. traditionally, it was to flatten the curve to prevent the health system from being overrun. we seem for have done that successfully. but there's data suggesting our need for what dr. david katz long associated at yale had described as vertical intradiction. that means shuttering the vulnerable while allowing those who can return to the world to do so. in my home state of pennsylvania where governor tom wolf just announced that the city of philadelphia and the surrounding counties will remain under a stay-at-home order until june 4, the state speaker of the house released a letter this week revealing that statewide, the average age of decedents is 79 and two-thirds were in nursing homes or similar facilities. the vast majority had co-more bitties. and, quote, of the 3061 persons who died. 61% had hypertension.

64% had heart disease. 37% had diabetes. and 30% in congressic pulmonary disease. that from mike turzai. 6.9% of the state's 3700 hospital beds are occupied by covid patients. which amounts to 1.46% of all of the state hospital beds. in new york, governor cuomo reporting that 66% of those admitted to his state hospitals are people who had been staying at home. a majority of the hospitalized people were not working or taking public transportation. 46% were unemployed. 37%, retired. and the 96% of those hospitalized have underlying health conditions. so that's the data. now, here are some of the possible takeaways. first and foremost that we need to protect the most vulnerable. they are seniors living in

nursing homes in similar facilities. second, that heightened concern needs to also extend to those hired to care for loved ones, disproportionately, they are people of color who are bearing more than their share of bad outcomes. third, that our goal must continue to be one of protecting against the overwhelming of our hospitals. fourth, that we must recognize as the unemployment rate grows due to the lockdown, we are indirectly adding to the fatality total. fifth, that deaths from economic ramifications of the pandemic be valued no less than those that come from a formal diagnosis. and finally, absent a vaccine, many, if not most of us, are going to get the virus. managing that spread in a way that doesn't overwhelm hospitals and doesn't ruin the economy must be the goal of governors. so, what does the sustainable long-term plan for the u.s. look

like? joining me now is three time pulitzer prize winning columnist thomas friedman. his most famous piece is make america immune again. and his most recent book is "thank you for being late." tom, thank you for being on time. why don't you begin with a critique or response to what you just heard me say. >> well, michael, i think you described, i'm not just saying it for your sake perfectly, which is how i describe this dilemma which is when you're up against mother nature, she is me merciless. and she doesn't give you any easy choice. and the choice she's given us here is a choice between locking down, suppressing the virus as much as we can, breaking the trends or transmission. but also killing the economy and potentially creating depth of despair on the other side.

the job of the governor is to find a sustainable path through those two extremes, those brutal choices that will maximize lives and livelihoods. that what i think a real president would be doing here. my critique of trump is not that he shouldn't be concerned about jobs. as you know, i've been concerned about that from the very beginning. you know, trump is basically telling the country right now, michael, our greatest generation preserved democracy and capitalism by taking omaha beach on d-day. i'm asking your generation to preserve democracy and capitalism by taking the malls of omaha on p-day, okay? this is like p-day. in some cases trump is just like fdr but absolutely not like fdr. because fdr sent our troops to

d-day with maps, with leadership, with guns, to minimize the casualties. what trump is doing is talking out of both sides of his mouth pointing to maps and armor that the cdc is urging people to do today, as they open up from lockdown, and at the same time, just telling people to go out and ignore the cdc and their governor's directive. and that is what is so irresponsible about this. >> for all of the criticism that you've offered of the president, is there a country you can point to and say, now, there's the model that we should emulate? and if so, what is it? >> you know, i would say -- there's basically two basic models out there, michael. one is sweden which says we're going to keep the economy more open than not. but we're also going to close down colleges and keep high schools and k-9 open. encourage social distancing. but we're actually going to let our least vulnerable go out,

acquire the infection. acquire the immunity for it and get herd immunity that way. that's their strategy. the other strategy is the china lockdown but then test, trace and track everybody, so you prevent the virus to come back, while we wait for a vaccine to get herd immunity. then there are democratic versions of the china model and the best obviously is germany which is doing through democratic mean what is china is doing by using the state surveilling system. we are doing neither sweden nor germany. we're sort of talking like germany but being sweden by default because we around putting in place all of the framework that would actually maximize our ability to get back to work while protecting our most vulnerable. that's the strategy. and that's what's missing here here from trump's approach, i would argue. >> there's nothing funny about this situation. but to coin a phrase, might

sweden have the last laugh? i know that right now, we look from afar and we say, well, their death rate is four times that of denmark. i'm pretty convinced of these statistics being accurate. and i think 11 times that of norway. but in the end, might that data level out? and as we look at sweden and say by embracing herd immunity, even if they don't use those words, they have the right idea. >> you're asking the right question. i'm amazed watching the commentary about sweden, all of these people out there, they're basically rooting for them to fail. >> right. >> and, yes, they compare their death rate to denmark. but they ignore the fact that sweden per capita has fewer cases of covid-19, coronavirus, than we do. and they have fewer deaths than france. first of all, all depends who you compare them to. and it all depends on the time frame. and they admit, they didn't protect their elderly well.

neither did we. neither did many people. and i don't know how it's going to come out in sweden. i'm not predicting how it's going to come out but i am certainly rooting for them to find a way of sustaining them to preserve livelihood with herd immunity if they can. i'm rooting for them. i'm struck at how many people are dealing with as immoral deviants trying for a path that has a possibility in the long term to succeed. i'm talking about in the next few months. i am not predicting it will. i don't know, i'm not an epidemiologist, but i'm not rooting against them. >> your writing turneded me and the words of david katz at yale and this notion of vertical intradiction. i want to put on the screen, your column from a "times" reader, i think he called himself the dude. we'll put it up on the screen. we'll read it aloud.

so my question to tom friedman to promises to protect the most vulnerable, like my wife who is older and has a pre-existing condition. is it just more quarantine time while you and your families visit restaurant, go shopping, get your hair cut, et cetera, et cetera? is that your solution for older adults with those with compromised immune systems? what would tom friedman say to that column? >> it's unfair. we have to do everything we can to protect his wife, my wife or yours michael or grandparents. we've done a terrible job at that. if it were me, i'd be calling out the national guard in all 50 states to protect the homes to make sure the residents there are protected. but you're dealing with mother

nature. she's not there. she didn't give you a virus that falls on everyone equally. mother nature is chemistry, biology and physics. you can't talk her up, you can't talk her down. all you can do adopt as best you can. that's what we enable earn single person in our today to do. to maximize the availability, and protect the vulnerable. and maximize our ability to save lives and livelihoods. but this isn't fair. you're up against mother nature. you're not up against some political party. she doesn't care about you or me. all she cares about is who will adapt. and who doesn't adapt, in her world, they get returned to the manufacturer. that's the brutal logic of our situation. >> well, the pandemic has proven to, quote the book title that the world is flat. thank you, tom. i really appreciate it. >> good to be with you, michael. >> what are your thoughts, tweet

me @smerconish. go to my facebook page. kathryn, what do we have -- smerconish, ah, going all trump today already. all in for end the lockdown now. i am surprised you were not at the astroturf protests. really, ducky? that's the lesson you take away from me laying out the data. the data that says we need to have two objectives which is to prevent those like my two aunts who are each in their 90s. one with her husband of 69 years living in an assisted care nursing home-type facility. i'm all for protecting them. that's my objective. at the same time recognizing that people will die from economic ruin. literally die. i hit you with all of the data. then presented were you with tom friedman, one of the foremost thinkers in the country who is a critic of the president. and your takeaway is i'm hear to

carry the president's water, come on. in san francisco, the number of homeless tents has gone up by nearly 300%. i'll talk to the dean by the nearby law school who is leading a lawsuit to force the city to clean it up. and during covid, oh, you're going to love this, if your local government asks you to report on businesses violating the lockdown and you do, does that make you a patriotic whistle-blower or a switnitch? that's this week's surveyle question. please go to smerconish.com and vote. those reporting on nonespecial businesses that remain open, whistle-blowers or snitches? y, you need a network that puts you first. firstnet. the only officially authorized wireless network for first responders. confident financial plans, calming financial plans, complete financial plans. they're all possible with a cfp® professional.

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one area of san francisco. since january, the number of tents and makeshift structures has exploded by nearly 300% in the tenderloin neighborhood. by the way, take a look at that footage and know that we shot it just yesterday. the university of california, hastings college of the law. and a group of tenderloin businesses and residents have filed a lawsuit not to seek financial damages but to force the city to clean it up. they say the city left them to deal with blocked access, no roads and garbage and human waste. not to mention a fear of infection based on a lack of social distancing. now, the san francisco mayor has rolled out a plan to help address the problem. the plan includes moving some people to a designated that already has dozens of tents. forcing social distancing on streets, leaving six feet between tents sidewalking,

increased wash stations and restrooms. joining me now is david fagan, the chancellor of the college. leading the lawsuit against the city in the county of san francisco. dean, thank you for being here. why are you suing? >> good morning, michael. we are suing because our neighborhood has become a pandemic containment zone. we have basically -- or the city has basically cordoned off our area. tents are blocking the streets. tents are blocking doorways. there are needles in the streets. there's open air drug dealing. there is no other neighborhood in san francisco that would tolerate that, and they would stand up and they would be counted. and the tenderloin needs to stand up and be counted. >> what do you want? >> what we want is to clear the streets.

the people that need to get food and medicine, they have to struggle over tents and waste. we need the tents to be removed and we need the drug deals to stop. there are open areas that the city controls that they can create safe encampments that can provide supervision. that can provide sanitary facilities and testing. there's no covid-19 testing going on in our neighborhood. we fear that the virus is raging in the neighborhood. and our neighborhood has more children per capita than any other neighborhood in san francisco. we have elderly. we have vulnerable populations that are in danger. so, leaving them on the streets is no solution. and it's not a near-term solution and it's not a long-term solution. we have to get them off the streets now. >> we invited the mayor to come

on this morning. and they desiclined. her office this week did issue a new plan, probably in response to your lawsuit. what do you think of the plan? >> i think the plan is entirely inadequate. it essentially institutionalizes the status quo. it leaves everybody in place. it's a band aid when a band aid is needed. and it's simply inadequate. it was thrown together, we anticipate it was thrown together because they knew it was coming but it really does not provide a real solution in the immediate term. and has nothing to say about the intermediate and long term. moreover, nothing about the drug deals going on in the neighborhood. the city has seemingly taken a hands off approach and this is an organization that essentially

has no voice. and the voice is going to be in the federal court. and the solution is for the city. i think the city ought to welcome this lawsuit as an opportunity to break through political barriers and accomplish what they want to accomplish as well, which is to clear the streets and protect the residents of san francisco. >> i can understand why your lawsuit could be in the best interest of hastings. i can also understand as one who has been to law school and has a son in law school, the reluctance would be for i or one of my kids to come to your school if that's the situation but i need to ask this question. do you think that you're also acting not only in the best interest of the law school, but in the best interest of those lid really living on sidewalks in front of the law school? >> absolutely. the reality is they're not welcoming the situation either. they are in tents, one on top of one another. they are congregating, even when

the tents are moved to six feet away in large groups. they're not being given the sanitary and health facilities that they need, and the testing that they need. what we are proposing is an immediate solution is to move the encampment to an area that would be safe. and provide all the needs that they have. but also to build on that. build on that to create a tla g long-term solution for affordable housing and food insecurity and also to stop the drug deals going on in the area. so, i think in the end, if you look at what our suit would create in san francisco, i think that the mayor and i are on the same page. i think if she were to write down what she wants the neighborhood to look like a year from now, if i write down what i want the neighborhood to look a year from now that it would look a lot alike. i think if you look at that

population, what they would want, it would also look a lot like what the mayor and i have written down. >> quick final question, are you regarded in the community as hero orvill villain for having d this lawsuit? >> so, i have received close to 200 emails and other communications and they're running 100 to 1 in favor of the lawsuit. my own community is thrilled. the average email says something to the effect of thank you, thank you, thank you. there's been a pent-up demand for this kind of action. i think that they hope, like i do, that the federal courts can do something and have long-lasting change here. >> dean david faigman, thanks for being here. we're going to follow it. >> thank you very much. i appreciate you having me. >> what are you saying via smerconish twitter and facebook pages. what do we got, kathryn? why not just move the homeless

to cruise ships which are idle right now? helps them and the cruise line. listen, i don't know the san francisco lay of the land all that well. i do remember watching the movie "pacific heights." i can imagine the creation of a de facto containment zone which is what the lawsuit wants would be permitted in "pacific heights" or high-brow neighborhoods in that city. got to change. up ahead, while the public has been wrestling with the pandemic, joe biden is in the basement and yet surging in the polls. i ask david axelrod to win does biden need to do anything but to stay put? plus, when people were telling about lockdown in covid. they didn't realize they were in jeopardy of being outed. make sure you go to

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if you report on your neighbors, defying covid lockdown orders, are you a whistle-blower patriot or a snitch? there have been reports of concerned citizens aiding the shutdown all over the country. back in late march, a resident of connecticut shot a video of people congregating at a local golf course and posted online. when the mayor saw the video he decided to temporarily shut down the course. in chicago, several people complained online and to their alderman that a yoga studio stayed home. on march 27th, issued a citation. in tulsa, oklahoma, citizens who saw a live stream of a parade,

they shut it down. and then this executive order reporting tool about violation of the governor's stay home, stay safe executive order then directed to the police. so, if your local authorities ask you to report nonessential businesses defying orders to shut down during covid would you feel okay about doing so? before you answer, you better listen to what happened in st. louis. in the last week of march, the st. louis county asked its citizens to report any noncompliant businesses via a dedicated email address or online form. the covid-19 stay-at-home report of abuse and wrongdoing which says by reporting violations you play a critical role in helping us make sure that everybody is doing their part to prevent the spread of covid-19 by following the stay-at-home order. as reported by local station

ksdk within a little more than a week, the site received 900 such tips about the community wanting to keep it safe. including craft stores, tanning aslons, a restaurant. saying those who were not designated as an essential business must follow this public health order. it has the force of law. he warned those who do not comply risk losing their business designation in good standing and access to the c.a.r.e.s. act, the $2 billion relief package. but tipsters perhaps didn't read the complaint form. you had to fill out personal information, including whether you work ted busineed at the bu question, and then checking disclaimers. they included this one i'm being

advised that this as any record may be considered an open record to the sunshine law. st. louis may be required to release this form as a matter of law upon request from any member of the public including the media. well, you can guess what happened next, right? somebody utilized that law to obtain the names and someone else posted all of them online. with the headline "here you go, the gallery of snitches, busybodies and employees who rat out their own neighbors and employers over the panic-dimoep. and some were training to get the employees fired or other retaliation. his post has since been taken down. one of the concerned citizens

told ksdk that she has lupus and lives with two who have compromised immune systems. she said she was being extra careful when she saw something, she said something. but she said, we're in a society and doing what's right doesn't always get rewarded. how do you feel about it. this has beenwhistle-blower dilemma. go to smerconish.com and answer those reporting on nonessential businesses that remain open, whistle-blowers or snitches. from social media, we've got this. asking this question is disgusting. they are trying to protect people from dying. well, okay, then, clearly, you put them in the category of whistle-blower. why is it disgusting? just cast your ballot and move on. still to come, the president hit the road this week touring a mask factory in arizona and wresting with the pandemic. while his component campaigning from his basement is surging ahead of him in the polls.

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ask joe biden win the white house by just letting trump be trump? if you look at recent polling, he's been gaining ground just sitting in his basement. while the president has been wrestling with the pandemic. nationally, biden leads the president by nine points and he's moved into the lead in several key battleground states. pennsylvania, michigan, florida, wisconsin. there's the data. but without the usual candidate tools even this summer's convention may be virtual, will he have to rethink his campaign? my next guest says yes, david axelrod you know, former advisor to president obama. in both of he's campaigns he wrote a piece in "the new york

times" with david plouffe. david, thank you for being here. this was great radio fodder for me and my listeners on two days. >> glad to help you. >> by the way, give me something for next week, would you? but get came up why would the two davids, axelrod and plouffe but this in "the new york times" instead of calling up the former veep on his campaign apparatus? what, if anything, can we read into how you delivered the message? >> well, first of all, the piece was assigned to us by "the new york times." they were interested in how biden adjusts to the new reality in the covid-19 era. so, we were responding to that request. it wasn't meant as a message to the biden campaign. you know, the biden campaign has a new campaign manager jan o'malley dylan who was the deputy manager of the obama campaign in 2012. probably as skilled a manager

and organizer as there is in the country. so, she could have written this piece if they asked her to. so it wasn't meant as a message. i know it was interpreted as that. but it does raise an important challenge that they're having to deal with which is, robbed of the tools that you usually have to campaign, traditional tools and being stuck at least for the time being in your home, how do you campaign against the president who is a ubiquitous presence. a man who looks to be in action even if the action sometimes is chaotic and self-defeating. and without the video -- and as, without a physician, so that the president has a position here that gives him a platform. and in an era when covid-19 is of great interest. and so do governors and mayors. biden doesn't have that. that is what prompted us to write the piece.

and the answer is, you have to really hone these virtual tools. you have to be very aggressive in and on the balls of your feet, both offensively and defensively. he could win, michael. joe biden might win just by dint of how the president is handling the crisis which is all encompassing. clearly all of these techniques online is going to be very, very important for the vice president. >> you wrote among other things, online speeches from his basement won't cut it. written pronouncements on this issue or that may have won attention during his many years in office but will get little pickup now. broadcast interviews are fine,

but most valuable only if they generate a great and memorable line that becomes a wildly shared moment. so if status quo, what exactly should he be doing? >> well, if you look at his social media footprint, donald trump's following and his campaign following dwarfs the biden following by a factor of 15 to 1. so, you want to quickly build that out. you're never going to catch up. but we discussed various techniques you can use to expand your footprint. you have to become active on youtube, on facebook, on twitter and on tiktok, and you need to develop constantly -- constantly be developing content for all of these and that are unique to them. so, you need to create a content studio. and really be in the production business all the time. not necessarily using biden, but his army of surrogates who are interesting and compelling to

people and can do fun things that will get their attention. the goal being to get people to share this material with their friends and expand your universe. you have to organize that. remember, you can't even knock on doors these days because people aren't going to answer and you're not allowed in many places. so how are you going to reach people. well, you have to do it virtually. and you have to have this relational organizing. so, all of these things, there's a piece in the post this morning about the biden campaign being about the business of trying to do all of these things. but they're having to retrofit a campaign that, frankly, was wanting in the primaries and didn't have the resources or wherewithal to do those things. most of the campaigns were far ahead of them in the virtual campaigning. they don't have an option now. >> well, david, there's a headline from the post that says that the biden campaign has gone

on a hiring spree, maybe in response to what you published with david plouffe. there's something else that you're reminding me of recently and it's this, robert draper from the "times" a week ago, he profiled and i interviewed him about it. i want to purchase on the screen, this is what parscale told him that the staff had identified 110 million likely trump voters in the u.s. and he added according to the polls and saying he could win this just by getting 72 million of them to show up. the point being there's a point in the campaign outside of the view that the trump folks are very adept at. i think that's what you were commenting where the former vice president really needs to up his game? >> yeah, there's no doubt. for all of the president's infatuation with television, they've been a digital first campaign from the very beginning. they've been very aggressive in

developing and testing content constantly that will provoke their supporters to act. that will expand their circle. and there was another piece yesterday in the post by dave wile who signed to you for both campaigns and he described the experience of being both a trump and biden supporter. >> yes. >> is that was very, very telling because the trump experience was much more enveloping an motivational than the biden experience. so there is a gap. and i don't believe that the biden campaign is staffing up as a result of our piece. i think they've been doing that for weeks. i think what happened that they decided to pull the curtain up on what they were doing, perhaps, because of questions about the piece. but they just have -- it's a very difficult task to do this quickly. we're going to start voting in, what, 170 days or something, early voting. so there's a short period of time. and they can't even be in the same room to talk about it.

so, they're trying to retrofit a campaign that wasn't really set up for this. they're doing it virtually. and they're doing it at warp speed. it's a real task. >> david, thank you. i know you're on the west coast. i really appreciate you getting up early on a saturday for us. >> always good to get up for you. good to see you, bye. >> thanks for saying that. from twitter and facebook, kathryn, what do we got, from facebook this time around, biden just needs to sit back and let trump continue to implode. no potus can survive 14.7% unemployment. you know, rey, what's interesting i had a sound bite there that i wanted to share. kathryn, can re run that, the trump sounder? >> i'd love to see him get out of the basement so he can speak because, you know, he's locked in a basement somewhere, and every time he talks, it's like a good thing. >> thank you for playing that. yeah.

so the president's mind-set seems to be one of, hey, i need joe out there because joe may step on his words. and if he's only in the basement and he's contained i'm not getting some of the fodder that i, donald trump, need to run this race. so, still to come your best and worst facebook and tweets. the final result of the question, vote at smerconish.com. those reporting on nonessential businesses that remain open, whistle-blowers or snitches? tastes great! high protein. low sugar. so good. high protein. low sugar. mmm, birthday cake. pure protein. the best combination to help you stay fit. first to put others' livesd. before your own. and in an emergency, you need a network that puts you first. firstnet. the only officially authorized wireless network for first responders. tuna for jj. turkey for tj.

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time to see how you responded to the survey question at smerconish.com. those reporting on nonessential businesses that remain open,

whistle-blowers or snitches? let's see how this turns out. 77% say whistle-blowers. 23% say snitches. with nearly 15,000 having voted. i'm not surprised. for the record, i guessed 67%. that was my guess in terms of -- i have no idea which way these things come out but i thought 67. here's some of what came in during the course of the program. whistle-blower, snitch, depends on your political affiliation and what your intentions are. you does it really depend on your political affiliation? or is it geography dependent and that's a large marx marker of what your politics may be? i think the market is going to handle a lot of these. governments can open businesses but if you're not ready to go to a restaurant, you're not going

to go. likely if you see a business open in your community and it shouldn't be, you're not going to patronize them in the future. give me another one. excellent assessment where we are. we need to open up smart and responsible way, protect the most vulnerable. how did that get in there, that's complimentary? give me one more. smerconish stop saying biden in the basement. instead say biden bravely abides by covid-19 barriers. i don't mean it negative, i mean he's contained. and a containment strategy may be all he needs to win. who knows. have a great weekend, happy mother's day. stay safe. with dosing every 8 weeks. stelara® may lower your ability to fight infections and may increase your risk of infections and cancer. some serious infections require hospitalization. before treatment, get tested for tb. tell your doctor if you have an infection or flu-like symptoms or sores,

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good morning to you, welcome to saturday, may 8th, i'm christi paul. >> i'm victor blackwell. >> actually, may 9th. >> there you go. >> let's get it right, i apologize. >> may 9th. good to be with you. >> yes. >> welcome to the cnn "newsroom." in the headlines, the numbers are making a clear impact on the coronavirus and what it is doing in this country right now. there are more than 77,000 people who have died. more than 1.2 million cases in the u.s. >> more than 70 cases of children getting seriously sick from complications possibly linked to