this is cnn breaking news.

>> welcome to our viewers here in the united states and around the world. i'm wolf blitzer in washington. this is a special edition of "the situation room." we're following breaking news. the heads of three public health organizations now taking drastic measures to protect themselves and others after at least two white house staff members test positive for the coronavirus. dr. anthony fauci, very familiar face over at the white house coronavirus task force briefings, often at the president's side, dr. fauci now telling jake tapper he will begin what he calls a modified self-quarantine for two weeks. that means he'll mostly stay at his home, he'll continually, he says, wear a mask. also putting himself into quarantine this weekend for 14 days once again, the head of the cdc, dr. robert redfield, he, dr. fauci and the head of the fda, the food and drug

administration all self-isolating after possibly coming into contact with people at the white house who learned this past week that they have in fact tested positive for the coronavirus. despite the urgent new development that the potentially deadly virus is now detected inside the white house, take a look at this. the president gathered with his top military officials today for a meeting inside the white house cabinet room. bit more than normal distancing around the table, but no masks worn by any of them, not on the president or any of the generals or admirals. let's go straight to the white house right now, where white house correspondent jeremy diamond is with us. jeremy, three very important public health individuals, their organizations, top officials, in some form quarantining now for 14 days starting immediately. there's a sense of urgency, i assume inside the white house tonight, or is it simply being doon out

done out of abundance of caution? >> reporter: that is yet to be determined. these are three top doctors on the coronavirus task force who for the next two weeks will be practicing some sort of quarantine. dr. redfield. dr. fauci, he told jake tapper this evening that he was at low risk regarding contact with a white house staffer who tested positive for coronavirus but will nonetheless out of abundance of caution be undergoing a quote-unquote modified quarantine, meaning that he will be wearing a mask at all times for the next few weeks, largely working from home, perhaps going into his offices at the national institutes of health where he will largely be alone, and he does say if he is called to the white house or capitol hill he will go, but he will take every precaution necessary.

dr. robert redfield offering a similar version in terms of his plans for self-quarantine for the next few weeks, saying he would wear a mask if he did need to go to the white house for example. all of this coming in the last 24 hours after katie miller, vice president pence's spokesperson t spokespers spokesperson tested positive for coronavirus. the white house has not confirmed if she was the one in contact with these three doctors going into self-quarantine, but we do know she is often in contact with them, often attending coronavirus task force meetings as one of the leading spokespersons for that task force. none of these officials are experiencing symptoms. they have all tested negative for the virus. steven miller, who is married to katie miller, he has also tested negative and is not showing any symptoms so far. but wolf, what we are seeing here appears to be more of a piecemeal approach.

the white house hasn't yet said whether there is a uniform policy for any official who has come in contact with katie miller or with that military valet to the president who tested positive a few days earlier this week. what we to know, wolf, is after that valet tested positive, the white house began instituting daily coronavirus tests for any individuals or officials coming into contact with the president. it's likely because of that policy, wolf, that they were able to learn yesterday that katie miller tested positive for the virus. the day before, she also had a test, and she had tested negative. wolf? >> all right, jeremy. thanks very much. jeremy diamond's going to be at the white house. if more members of the coronavirus task force decide they, too, will go into self-quarantine, get that news for us. we'll of course report that is a well. we're following all these developments very, very closely. significant developments indeed. joining us on the phone, dr.

sanjay gupta. give us your reaction that dr. fauci is entering for 14 days what he calls modified isolation. >> yeah, modified quarantine. this is, this is, consistent with the cdc guidelines, which is if you've had exposure to someone with known infection that you then based on the level of your contact, and i think they're calling these low risk but enough of an interaction for these three doctors that they should go into quarantine. it's, it should be quarantine, you know, i know dr. fauci's talking about the fact that he may go into his office if no one else is there, wear a mask all the time. but the reality is if you look at the guidelines and you understand the thinking behind it, it's at this point for the next 14 days, that's sort of the incubation period, the time when somebody might be exposed and the time when they might develop symptoms. if they do develop symptoms,

it's kind of around that time. we know it can happen in a shorter number of days than that as well. but that, that sort of fits. so i'm glad that they are sort of abiding by the guidelines that these organizations themselves have set out. this is part of the contact krasing akra tracing and they're going to get testing periodically as well. >> on thursday, we heard that a military valet tested positive and katie miller tested positive as well. everybody else is getting tested, but you've been doing a lot of reporting on these quick tests, the 15-minute tests, and you've noted there are false negatives all the time, right? >> yeah, that's one of the concerns. people may ask immediately, they hear what's unfolding and they say if you're getting tested all the time, then what is the necessity for quarantine?

there's two issues. one is, you're right, one of these tests, the rapid diagnostic test, sometimes, some of these studies have shown it can have a false negative rate 15% of the time. which means out of 100 people carrying the infection, if they all got tested, 15 would be told they don't have it when they do. they are good tests but not perfect tests, that's why the quarantine is so important. when you get tested for the virus and you get a negative result, that means that at that snapshot in time, you are negative. it is possible that you get tested the next day and you are positive. and that doesn't necessarily mean in between the two tests you became exposed and tested positive. you still could have been exposed many days earlier and just now, you know, the test is turning positive. now, when you get exposed, the virus starts to build up in your body. it's replicating, and when it gets to a detectable level, that's when the test is going to

pick it up. that could take several days. that should explain why people could be getting tested and still be in quarantine. they've had this known exposure now to someone with coronavirus. this14-day period is a bit arbitrary, but that's incubation period they're talking about, and that's why for 14 days they're going to be in a state of quarantine. >> katie miller, the secretary to the vice president, on thursday she tested negative. on friday she tested positive. but she could have been contagious. she could have potentially passed on the virus, even before thursday, is that right? >> that's right. that is, that is absolutely true. in fact, i don't think she had symptoms. i think that she just got tested routinely. but what we also know, wolf, is that people can be contagious without symptoms. and, in fact, a little bit strangely in this case, people tend to be the most contagious

before they develop symptoms. you know, if they're going to develop symptoms. they call that the presymptomatic period. so people tend to have more virus at that point, seemingly in their nose and mouth. this is even before they get sick, and they could be shedding that virus into the environment. so you really, you know, the 14 days, they may have had contact with whoever the person is that's probably katie mill ir, because she's with the coronavirus task force, and all these same people are with that task force, so that's probably what they are talking about. but they would go back and contact trace and say when was the last time you had contact, how long was the contact, what was your distance away from the person? sometimes it's hard to remember all that, wolf, but in the case of dr. fauci, they've deemed it a low-risk contact but significant enough that they say, well, based on this, for 14 days, quarantine is the recommendation. that way, you don't inadvertently spread it to someone else at this point.

that's obviously what they're trying to avoid. >> what's disturbing to me, and i want to get your reaction to two things, first, the president met with joint chiefs of staff, nobody was wearing masks as they were sitting around that table. what was also disturbing to me, he went over to the world war ii memorial on friday to honor u.s. veterans from world war ii, and he walked around with these veterans, very distinguished veterans, heroes in fighting during world war ii, the president's there with the first lady. nobody was wearing a mask there either. that was disturbing. and then later the president was asked yes wasn't wearing a mask, these gentlemen were, what, 95 years old? some of them were 100 years old, obviously, potentially significant. listen to what the president said in explaining why he decided not to wear a mask. >> the wind was blowing so hard in such a direction that if the

plague ever reached them, i'd be very surprised. could have reached me, too. you didn't worry about me. you only worried about them, and that's okay. >> hmm. >> we're worried about everybody. should others attending that ceremony marking the end of world war ii, should all of this emha this, them, should they all have been wearing a mask. >> this is clearly a contagious virus. i think everyone sort of understands that now. it does appear to be something that is primarily spread through respiratory droplets which is where the six feet come into play. why six feet, that is typically how far respiratory droplets will spread. they can spread further, obviously, if someone is coughing and sneezing, but someone coughing and sneezing shouldn't be out in public. i couldn't tell how far away he

was from people at the world war ii veterans event. i just couldn't tell from that angle of the shot, if he was far enough away. it would probably be less problematic. being outside is helpful, because it's a wider space for the virus to diffuse. and inside is a concern, when you talk about the meeting with the generals in the cabinet room, no one wearing a mask, that's concerning. it's concerning. we know at this point, the virus is in the white house. it's inside the white house. it's in the perimeter. it's a contagious virus. people are in the vulnerable age groups. they should be wearing a mask. i think it's really good that these three doctors are quarantining themselves. i think it sets a good example and reminds people what you have to do and what significant numbers of people will have to do as we start to do significant contact tracing. these conversations about masks, no masks, the testing, i think some of this is going to seem, in a few weeks, wolf, trivial,

kind of like when we first started talking about people should be physically distancing outside. people were really reluctant and a couple weeks later it became obviously the norman peop, and understood it. if you wear a mask, it will decrease the likelihood you will spread the virus. weep know that vir we know the virus is in the white house now. we don't have a vaccine. we don't have an effective therapeutic. so we need to do what we know to do as best as we can do it. and wearing a mask is part of it. we'll ho we'll look back on this conversation in a few weeks, wolf, and say i can't believe we had to have that conversation. it should be obvious at the white house and everywhere elsewhere the virus could be spreading. >> let's not forget it's not just katie miller, the secretary to the vice president, she does have coronavirus. a u.s. navy valet on thursday

confirmed that that navy valet served drinks to people in the white house, including the president, has coronavirus as well. i wonder if dr. debra birx will do self-quarantining or secretary azar. the president earlier tonight met with members of the joint chiefs in the cabinet room at the white house, and there you can see all of them sitting around the table. the secretary was there, steve mnuchin, the treasury secretary. out of an abundance of caution, should they have been wearing masks in the west wing of the white house as well? >> i think so, wolf. you know, i appreciate the fact that they're trying to keep physical distance. you know, and i don't know if you remember, wolf at the beginning when the white house task force briefing began, no one kept physical distance at that point. everyone was right next to each other. and over time you saw this

gradual sort of abiding by the recommendations. and i think we're seeing the same thing here. right now, it is still a reluctance to wear masks. and they're necessary. and i think we're going to gradually. it should happen now. this should not be a gradual thing, to be clear. but i think gradually, we're going to see that. people who are around the president, vice president, everyone in the white house should be wearing masks to decrease the spread. i asked ambassador boirirxs abo this, isn't it kind of like the secret service, protecting the principals in the white house, the secret service, it's obvious what they have to do to protect people. this is something that people need to be protected from as well, as best we can. there is not a perfect protection. we're dealing with a tiny mike robe here. but we have to do the best we can. and that involves for the time being, wearing a mask.

you have to decrease the likelihood that you will spread it. mostly you wear these masks to decrease your own spread. >> you don't want to do anything at all to endanger the president of the united states our vice president or members of the joint chiefs of staff. the top generals or admirals. sanjay, stand by. we're going to continue to follow the breaking news. three top officials on the white house coronavirus task force self-quarantine bei self-quarantining for 14 days after possible exposure to the coronavirus. can match the power of energizer. because energizer ultimate lithium is the longest lasting aa battery in the world. [confetti cannon popping] energizer. backed by science. matched by no one.

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security analyst, a former adviser to president obama. what do you think, samantha? you know the west wing of the white house well. you worked there for a long time. what do you think of the fact that the president was meeting with the top military brass in the cabinet room, no one, for example, was wearing a mask? >> well, wolf, put quite simply, i think it's gross negligence. the president is failing to take into account the basic guidelines of the cdc advising americans to take. and the stakes here are just so high, wolf. as you know, white house personnel are deemed essential personnel. that applies as well to the members of the joint staff and other cabinet officials. that means their ability to do their jobs which rest on them staying healthy is paramount, otherwise the function of our government is put at risk. you just really have to ask yourself why the president and his team wouldn't take every precaution possible to

prioritize the health of themselves as well as the people around them. and having worked in the white house, wolf, i really fear that this is the tip of the spear in terms of learning about more officials that have to engage in some kind of quarantine. if the president and the vice president were themselves exposed to this virus, based on the close quarters in the white house, i worked in a converted closet, feet away from my closest colleague for years. based upon how the white house works, it is more than likely that several other officials will likely have to engage in some form of self-quarantine. >> samantha, stand by, i want to bring in other members. medical and political experts to discuss what's going on, the breaking news. our senior political commentator, david axelrod, gloria borger, dr. sayed.

you've got dr. redfield, dr. hahn, dr. fauci in some forms of self-quarantine now for 14 days because they may have been in contact with two white house officials, katie miller as well as a u.s. navy valet who've now been confirmed they have coronavirus. >> this just really illustrates how common this virus is becoming, how it is out there in our communities and really everyone is at risk from being exposed to this virus because if's so contagious and highly pref leapt in parts of the country. what i want to know now is what the exposure was of these individuals. dr. fauci, dr. redfield and dr. hahn. how much close contact did they have with this person, because usually when we're trying to recommend the highest level of quarantine, and it sounds like dr. fauci has a modified level of quarantine, you have to be within six to ten feet for ten to 30 minutes. there may have been other individuals who had that contact as well.

your prior fwis saguest said th be others that have to go through this quarantine. >> i suspect dr. debra birx and secretary azar may have to do the same. what do you think, dr. sayed? >> it's unclear how many people there were and what kind of contact. we hope in the white house task force. the task force that is charged with helping to make federal policy around this, that they'd be making the right decisions. and i do think, you look at people like dr. redfield and dr. fauci and dr. hahn, they're doing what they do out of abundance of caution. presumably the person who exposed all of them is the vice president's press secretary. and you have to ask, well, if that's the case, then why aren't we hearing about what kind of quarantine the vice president

and potentially other people in that staff are in. and so this sh the questithe qu concerning to me. >> it's concerning i suspect to a lot of people. gloria, what's your reaction to the news that dr. fauci, who's been the face of this coronavirus task force, that at least a modified quarantine on his behalf that he's going through for 14 days? >> well, look, i think dr. fauci, and the others, are doing what they have to do to keep themselves safe and to keep others who might be around them safe. so i think you have to trust their judgment on this. but what this does do is show you that no one is immune, and no environment is immune. here you are in the white house, and you've been talking, you know, for the past hour about how there's hardly anyone wearing a mask around the president of the united states. the president isn't wearing a mask, and i think, you know, this is a time in which the

president is really trying to make the country feel comfortable with going back to work. he wants to turn the page and talk about going back to work. and now you have this occurring at the white house. and real questions are being raised. has the president been exposed in this way? and we know that he's tested every ta every day. what will the test show tomorrow. has the vice president been exposed. they are telling people in this country, when you go out, wear a mask if you live in a very exposed area. follow the cdc guidelines, and we see that has not been followed. and we see what follows instead is a kind of chaos inside the white house, with staffers, unfortunately, not knowing whether they should be in work on monday or whether they should stay home or what the protocol should be, really, wolf. >> you know, that's critically important point. david axelrod, you were a senior

adviser to president obama. you spent a lot of time in the west wing. people hear the west wing and think it must be some huge place. this is a pretty small area we're dealing with right now, and especially when you're talking about infections, it's potentially. potentially, i hope it doesn't happen, very, very problematic. >> you're right, wolf. people don't realize just how small it is. there was that show "the west wing", and you had this accesen that it was a large place. it is a tiny place. the battle for real estate and the white house is an old story. just to get an office is hard, because there's such little space, and you're constantly brushing past people, and so i mean, it is concerning. this whole issue of wearing a mask, the president reportedly told his aides he didn't want to wear a mask because he thought he'd look ridiculous, but how ridiculous would it be if by refusing to wear masks, some of the most important decision-makers in our government were exposed to this

virus and taken out of the picture. i admire dr. fauci and the other doctors for practicing what they preach and telling, and showing people what you need to do. but what this really underscores, wolf, is what the rest of the country is going to face as we open up. you know, the white house is a very rigorous environment. these people are being tested on a daily basis. there's great caution applied. masks not withstanding, and yet they're faced with this situation. what about the average business trying to reopen now. there's a lot, there are a lot of lessons in this episode. . >> and another issue, doctor, the president of the united states, he's 73 years old, dr. fauci is 79 years old. so you hear people who are in their 70s right now, potentially, they're at greater danger than people in their 20s or 30s, right? >> right. this is certainly, exposures in that age group are something we take very seriously, that we want to really monitor those

individuals for the symptoms and have a low threshold to act aggressively. that's where you see people get in the icu. this is the group we're trying to cocoon. and it's really important that those individuals, even when we get further into this pandemic stage and things are open that they continue to social distance and be very mindful of their contacts, because they have a very low threshold to deal with this virus, and they can get in trouble very quickly. >> very important point. everybody stand by. we're following all the breaking news, very dramatic breaking news right now, we'll be back. much more after this. a new moment in wireless has begun. t-mobile and sprint are joining forces. by bringing together our two networks, t-mobile will build america's largest and most reliable 5g network... with more towers, more engineers, and more coverage. you'll get the best 5g network, and the best prices. welcome to t-mobile.

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two officials in the white house who've now tested positive for the coronavirus including dr. anthony fauci, the nation's top infectious disease specialist. but right now i want to go to arkansas, one of the few states that did not implement a formal state at-home order. the gronks asa hutchinson, is joining us now. he has been reopening and organized reopening measures for a week. he announced yesterday the pools, beaches, water parks will reopen with certain restrictions. all that on may 22nd. on monday restaurants will reopen with limited capacity. the governor's joining us now. governor, thanks so much for joining us. i want to get to your experience, what's going on in arkansas. but what's your reaction to the breaking news tonight that these top coronavirus experts from the task force are now in self-quarantine for 14 days? >> well, it's good to be with you, wolf. and what we learned from what's happened in the white house is that this should not be considered a surprise.

we recognized from day one here in my office that if there was a positive test we could have to self-quarantine, we'll have to take the measures that are necessary to follow cdc guidelines. and with the busyness of the white house, with the exposure of people, it can't be considered a surprise. and it's an opportunity for america to see that you can continue to do business and take the proper safety precautions. this is whether you're talking about a meat processing plant or you're talking about any business or a school or the white house or the governor's office, this can happen. and we can't shut down government. we can't shut down business. so this is a teaching moment and something i'm sure the white house has planned for because it can't be considered a surprise. i think dr. fauci, i trust their judgment. i think they're doing the right thing. and i think that you'll see business to continue, whether

it's remotely, whether it's by video camera or whether it's in person with the right protective measures in place. >> well, having said that, governor, and you think have known each other for a long time, wouldn't it be prudent at least to err on the side of caution when the president meets with members of the joint chiefs of staff, as he did a couple hours ago in the cabinet room at the white house, for all of them just out of an abundance of caution to be wearing a mask and sending that message to the american public, you know, it's better to be safe than sorry? >> well, they have to make their judgment. i do think it's important, and we've tried to set an example by my leadership in if you can't socially distance to wear a mask. the president's emphasized the social distancing part. but i've made it clear that i'll wear a mask when i'm out in public. i've done that. i've had my photograph -- i crossed that bridge a long time ago. so i've been on the front page of the paper with a mask on.

so you get over it. it's important for arkansans to see their leader taking this seriously. and the president obviously is taking it seriously. i think you'll see continued social distance iing in the whi house and i suspect there will be a lot more mask wearing going on in the future. >> i spectacular you're absolutely right. as i say, better err on the side of caution and send a message to the american people, it's a smart thing to do. you don't want to take any chances with a contagious virus like this. let's talk about arkansas while i have you. what's going on right now? the white house says the benchmark was 14 days of declining cases. polling nationwide shows the majority of americans are still nervous. they're afraid that states may be reopening too soon. what do your fellow arkansans think about the restaurants, the water parks, all of them beginning in some form to reopen? >> well, just like anywhere

there's a divided opinion. but let me emphasize, we met the criteria for phase one. we had 14 days of -- we've had 14 days of declining cases. but also of declining positivity in our cases. we have adequate hospital space. our hospitalizations have gone down. so we've met the criteria for phase one. now we're trying to get to phase two, which you know -- and i've told them from the very beginning, there's going to be ups and downs. there's going to be some spikes. you work through those. and right now we've got a concern in our prisons. we've had the spread of covid-19 in both a federal prison and a state prison. but you manage through it. you emphasize the contact tracing that we're becoming more capable in this month. we're going to do 60,000 tests in arkansas, which is 2% of our population, in one month. we're going to open it up gradually and do business, just

like you mentioned it, but we're doing it may 22nd for some of our swimming pools. we're doing our restaurants. all gradually done with restrictions. so we can measure and make sure as we open up more we can also keep safe. and i'm proud of arkansas for following the social distancing guidelines with a few exceptions, but they need to do this. they're embracing it as well as the wearing of masks. i think we're going the right direction in arkansas. but there's going to be some ups and downs in the coming weeks. we've just got to work through. >> yeah, you've got to be careful. but you've got to be prudent. you've got a great state. i love arkansas. i spent a lot of quality time there. good luck to you, governor. good luck to all the arkansas ns. these are sensitive moments as we know. >> good to be with you. we'll get back to the stunning news out of washington, possible exposure to the coronavirus with three of the

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