fareed zakaria gps special, next.

will they be back to normal. is online education good enough

or is it actually even better? i'll talk to the president of arizona state university and a pioneer of online education. finally life as we know it. can we live life asless social creatures? will we greet each over with a bow and a handshake instead of a hug and what is all of this doing to our brains? ariana huffington has been thinking about it all. we'll close with my usual take all in this special hour. let's get started. what will post-covid-19 politics and geopolitics look like. joining me is the prime minister. welcome. you have written a great deal. you have talked about the rise

of populicsm and how we entereda world of left versus right and open versus closed. what does this pandemic do to that debate? it seems as though a lot of people are saying let's close down because if we're open, we get infected. >> it will be a lot of people saying that. on the other hand you've got to think of how important it is that we deal with this pandemic together and this is not about trying to do your best for other countries. it's trying to do your best for your own country. if you look at what the new world will look like as you emerge from covid, we're going to be living with the disease for some time. a vaccine on the best analysis could be nine months away. every country will be in the

same position. we can test people properly and trace and track people so we keep the disease under control. we're far bet r doiter doing th things together. i understand it will some people who say this is the result of interconnected supply chains and people becoming too depen dent on each other. we shouldn't forget the enormous globalization that it's brought us. we will do this better if we handle it together. >> the large part of what has fueled populism in the western world has been this anti-expert feeling. it was symbolized in britain when michael gold said we have had enough of experts.

i wonder is there some rethinking that people realize in pandemic it's useful to have experts. >> you'd hope so. i think the interesting thing about the political landescape after the immediate covid crisis has receded is i think all the things that were there before will be back but much more intense and more vivid. for example, i think there will be as people come out and they start to try and return to what will be a new normal. it's not going to be the old normality at all. as they go to this new normal they will look at the landscape and think how different it is. in this new world you need government that is going to be effective. it's going to be basing itself on what works. it's going to be, for example, accepting the technology gives us the means to transform a lot of the things duo a s we do and

better. >> what do can you think is the future of the european union? borders have been reimposed. nobody helped. is there a danger that this exposes a fissure that could widen? >> it's possible. it's a collection of sovereign

nation states. in the crisis, nation states have been looking after themselves and within their own borders. there are certain things that europe will have to do together to come through this crisis well. not at least in relation to economic coordination in the euro zone. >> could the most lasting, dangerous consequence of covid in a post-covid world be a cold war between the united states and china. you see how the tensions have risen and how this could easily spill over and persist. >> the relationship between the u.s. and china, particularly, let's say more generally the west and china, will be the determining geopolitical relationship of the 21st century. there's no doubt at all there

are serious questions for china to answer about how the disease began and there are perfectly natural anxieties about the power of dmchina and how it maye used in future. here is one difference between the cold cwar and china. at the end of the cold war i think america was importing something like $200 million worth of goods from the soviet union. american imports from china was north of $500 billion. there's an interconnectedness and economically and in trade terms that wasn't there in the cold car. if you think of the big issues that we face today, whether it's on the economy or on issues like climate or dealing with this global pandemic, how the you deal with it unless you have some space for cooperation with china.

in my view the question for europe will be does it attempt to play a role in which it makes sure that it's with the united states when china does need to be confronted but persuasive with the united states when china needs cooperating with. >> thank you to tony blair. let us go from politics to economics. joining me is larry summer, the 71st treasury of the secretary and former president of harvard university. what will we see on the other side? >> we're going to see probably for the next month or two, continued decline.

we'll see many, many more people p out of work. probably twice the excess unemployment. maybe three times the excess unemployment that we saw during the financial crisis. relatively rapid recovery from dismal to terrible, gradually from terrible. where many many people are going to be working at home. there's going to be much more online commerce and much less tr di -- traditional retail. i suspects this will be a bit of a blow to the economy. >> governments already

extraordinary amounts of money. is there a limit. what is a world look like that is lay tent with death or -- de. levels will go up to a scale nobody has seen before? a lot of that is really extraordinary post-covid. one is the optimistic and easier lesson is that we're likely to be in an era for a very long

time to come. that's what the market is saying. with very low interest rates we can carry larger debts than we could have historically and 1% interest rates are just as historically odd as the debt levels. we're collecting 17% of gdp in taxes at the level of the federal government. that's not enough. not when people are hurting so badly and unemployment is high. when we recover we'll have to have higher taxes in the united states like we did in the 1960s

and 1970s. like most of the other countries in the world do. fortunately, we can generate significant revenue, maybe not enough from the very rich. that's where any tax increasing should start. >> what about for the rest of the world? i don't mean the germanys or japans that can borrow pretty much at will. there's so many countries that are poor, that cannot print money. what happens to them? >> this is one of the biggest ab abdications of responsibility of the trump administration. after the financial crisis started, it was a historically important g-20 meeting directed at making sure the world economy continued to function. we've got nothing like that kind of international leadership. we're going to need a

combination of more lending and official financial flows to the world and to emerging markets and we're going to need substantial debt restructuring for emerging markets. otherwise, they're not going have any policy space and they're going to have depressions that could make our problems look very small and ultimately it's one world and if all the emerging markets become submerging markets for a decade or generation, that's going to do devastating damage bilogically in terms of the disease and economically in terms of our markets to our country. >> my thanks to larry summers. now onto technology. many countries are looking to cell phone apps to track the spread of covid-19. apple and google where working jointly. privacy advocates are watching

it all closely. joining me to talk about all that and the future of technology is eric schmit. the former ceo and chairman of google. we have been close friends for decades. i'm senior adviser to the philanthropic industry. welcome. >> thank you and good morning. >> when you look at covid, before we get to post-covid, you said to me once this at some level this is a kind of information problem. what do you mean by that? >> we have a silent killer we kbts s can't see. many people are giving it to others without having symptoms at all. how could you trust the person next to you unless they're

family member. without that ability to trust, it will be difficult to go to any mass gathering or start college again. nursing homes are a problem. all the problems where people work closely together are a problem for this reason. i think we need to view this as an nchinformation problem. we need to come up with estimates for where the disease is. we can find hot spots and put them out. >> one of the things that people are wondering is, we have not had the world's best governmental response here but the united states has the world's best information technology companies. is there something that information technology allows us to do that will allow us to take that information that you're talk about. who is sick, where. is there some way to process this information well? >> if you look at what south korea does when you get an infection. they take you and they take your phone and they look at everything you've done, your

banking records and where you've been and label you infected and tell people you're a problem. this has worked brutally to sustain the problem there. in america, it's unlikely that we're going to be willing to adopt the extreme measures o that asian countries have been doing, which have suppressed the virus. testing without contract tracing is not useful. the google-apple collaboration preserves your privacy but it's voluntary. many people will have to use those applications in order for them to work effectively. i think we need to look at this as an information problem and as an information problem what we need to do is collect as much information as we can and try to identify the hot spots and go to where they are. most of the disease is spread by hot spots which erupt. people will have a 15-year-old girl party where they celebrate and get close together and every one gets infected.

choirs that are singing. people working in meet packing plants. all of those that are hot spots that move quickly. if we can stop that spread then we can really slow down the virus. >> let's step back. the one thing we can see is this has accelerated the technology. tell us, this is the kind of thing you've been predicting for a long time. what is the economy going to look like at the end of this in a year or two years. how much of it will go digital? >> we know some things already. we know that people are going to do many, many things digitally that they didn't before. the most obvious is tele health. partly because they change the reimbursement so you can get changed for it.

that's an example for it. digital is good for your health. it's good for the economics and it makes everything more efficient and it's clearly safer. it seems to many it will be in the daily life and retail. you'll see more and more automatic check out. yo you'll see changes in the way the building is organized. we'll we'll adapt to presence of the virus which is not going away any time soon. >> one feature of the internet that you talked about and larry page and other leaders of the internet said it was going to be kind of borderless. it was going to bring the world together. covid has made countries more

nationalistic. what is it bode for the future of the internet if countries are drawing in this way and viewing each other pretty suspiciously in. >> can you imagine the pandemic now without the internet that we used every day and every way. the internet went from being interesting and optional and now it's really fundamental to our lives. this means it will have nationalism problems and people will have higher expectations for things like information and misinformation and that sort of thing. most of the changes are good. the ones i worry about have to do with the pressures to sensor the internet because country doesn't like the political con tent. it's easy. you see that already in china where they have a firewall and they don't allow content they don't like.

societies can't function without a broad understanding of the truth and the internet can be a truth provider. >> thank you. we have a lot more still to come on this special edition of gps. we'll look at the future of city, travel, education and life itself. all that when we come back. a new moment in wireless has begun. t-mobile and sprint are joining forces. by bringing together our two networks, t-mobile will build america's largest and most reliable 5g network... with more towers, more engineers, and more coverage. you'll get the best 5g network, and the best prices. welcome to t-mobile. america's largest 5g network.

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in it's 115 year existence, the new york subway has never had a shutdown. 24 hour subways was assembled for the city that never sleeps until covid. now every night, the city closes up shop to clean them. she was new york city's transportation commissioner and is now a principal with bloomberg associates. pleasure to have you on. >> thanks for having me. >> can cities adjust and adapt to this new world of social distancing? >> you know, i think covid has shaken the foundation of society and people feel it in almost every aspect of their lives. it's interesting because we all want things to return to normal

but we can bring back our cities and bring them back to life without bringing back all the same fatalities, congestion and pollution. we've got this once in a lifetime opportunity to get that right. we can absolutely bring our cities back. they've come back from wars and plagues and depressions before. i think it's really a matter of imagination and looking at what we can do to make our cities better so they don't recover but that they prosper. >> so, imagine for us, what is it that you would like to see the new city look like? >> well, i think you're starting to see that in cities across the world. milan has set up a whole stage two recovery. he's taking the plan that he had for 2030 and doing it in 2020. he's created 22 miles of bike lanes and extended sidewalks and

car free zones because we what we have seen akroosz the world is streets easier for walking and biking and transit are better for business and better for health. when you think of it, cars don't shop. people do. >> it seems part of the plan will be more open spaces. the new york there's a blessing of having parks without wondering how to navigate something like this. it feels like you want a city where people are living closer to where they work. you don't have these long commutes. you have green spaces, open areas. is that economically viable? >> absolutely. that's what makes cities great.

the cultural and social health of the city. i think we're going to see mayors and cities doubling down on the very investment strategies that work before. that's magic of cities being around one oots. cities have been shaped by historic forces. >> people will flee to the suburbs again as they did in the 1950s. because of digital telecommuting it's easy to work at home.

what is it that you think is still the pull of a city? if you have the technology to work somewhere else. you get more space. what is it that draws people or will draw people in the future? >> people have been predicting the decline of cities for years. after 9/11, nobody was going to live in a city or skyscraper and nobody was going to fly. people are living in lower manhattan and living in s skyscrapers and flying. it's a matter of vetting the language resetting the language of the street. we have 50% of the world's population living in cities and that number will get to two third of the population will live in cities in the year 2050. that's good. cities are good for the future of the planet because we're not going to get to where we need to

in addressing climate change by having people sprawl further and further out and having people drive everywhere they need to go. that's going in the wrong direction. what you've seen time and time again is cities are what society is build on. certainly this pandemic challenges us but it offers us a once in a lifetime opportunity to undo some of the damage from traffic and congestion and space wasted on parking and really resetting people, veresetting cities without leaving people behind. this is the moment we can reset our streets to enshurp we're just not recovering but also prospering. the cities that make the changes now will be cities that survivor. >> pleasure to have you on. >> thank you so much. from subways an buses, let's go to planes and trains.

take a look at this graphic. it shows the planes in the air over europe on the 7th of march. the next image shows the same thing a mopts labts later. stark. there were 95% fewer passengers flying on u.s. commercial flights than last year. when will people be willing to get back on planes and what will travel look like in the future? joining me now is one of my favorite reporters. he's a long time wrieter for th atlantic. jim, what do you think? is this a blip. does this change the world of travel? >> i've been talking with airline people. they say for the foreseeable future, that's the next few months they don't expect a return to anything like normal. when there's a normal, it will

be after a vaccine which is probably a couple of years. we underestimate that easy human movement has shaped. that's been so important in creating what we think of as the modern world. if that's depressed for month, maybe more years, we'll reckon the consequences of that. >> tell us about planes. you understand them well. you fly one. what would it take to make my comfortable, and i'm not terribly paranoid. can they put in air filters?

will everybody be wearing masks? how will it work in. >> i think for the foreseeable future, the next couple of months, people will take airline trips when they feel they have to. there's family reason. there's something you can't not go for. you can't drive there. anyone with a choice will choose not to fly. i think masks will become common place. probably the kind of temperature screening gates that you've seen every time you go to china. they've had them for 15 years. the air circulation within an airline is actually safer than many other enclose places because it goes through filters regularly every two or three minutes. the air is sbeentirely refreshe from outside. if somebody sneezes on you, there's not much you can do about that. for the next few months, people

will go only when they nieds to. they will wear masks. they will have hand sanitizer. they will wipe down things before they touch them and you'll view this as an experience to with stand. >> that suggests an economy, think about the travel and leisure economy that's built up over the last couple of deck indicates because of this cheap and easy travel. it's fairly recent. somebody pointed out to me the amount of airline travel between sars that the out break of sars has doubled. will we go back to a world where it was upper middle class and rich people that fly? >> while people, including me, always complain about airline travel for all the reasons we don't need to belabor. by objective measurements it's

been safer than ever before in the last ten years. it's been cheaper on average than ever before. it's reached much broader segments of public than was the case a generation ago. it seems the case that flying will become a much more usual and much more selective experience than it used to be. >> what does it mean for us to travel less? you lived in japan. everything will draw back. every one will pull back. it suggests a kind of narrowing of our horizons. >> i think that's the most profound potential impact of the change -- the difficulty in movement that we're going to have for the foreseeable future.

we know the economic impact on american universities if they can't draw students from around the world. that person's life is changed, for ever. the experience of being someplace outside your homeland, meeting other people is different. if there are foreigners, it's outsiders, not americans. it gives them a different perspective. a buffering effect for the tensions of the last generation or so between the u.s. and china, in particularly, has been the fact that so many americans and chinese have known each other as people, as families.

there are cultural effects and political effects if they allow for the less person to person connection. >> always a pleasure. one of the great american journalists. thank you so much. >> thank you so much. next on gps, what will schools look like this fall and beyond? the is online education the answer for the long haul? i'll ask one of its pioneers. also ariana huffington on the rest of life as we know it. how can we socialize in the age of social distancing? all that and my final thoughts when we come back. when dehydration gets real... ♪ hey!

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48 states and the district of columbia have either required or recommended that schools close for the rest of the school year. just about every college and university has cancelled in person classes as well. being in the physical classroom or lecture hall has been replaced with so called distance learnings. the teachers beam sboog the student oos home via the internet. is this the new normal and will student's education suffer or benefit? joining me now is michael crow. up with of the mpioneers of online education. it's the president of arizona state university. while some educational leaders have scrambling to figure out what the next phase look like, crow literally wrote the book on it. it was called "sdidesigning thew

american university." fla glad to have you on. >> thank you. >> i've got a kid in college and one of the things he points out while some of the instruction and he goes to a good college, some of the instruction is good but a lot of the peer to peer learning. the feeling of being in a class with other students, a lot of that richness is being lost. is there way to capture that online? >> there's not way to capture all of it but way to capture a lot of it. we have done hundreds of millions of minutes of zoom based learning where students have not only been with faculty and each other. they have been in work groups, study groups. they have been musically creative with each other. the key is understanding that there are multiple ways to socially connect and to enhance the aspects of learning. we found this is a new option.

it may not be better in every way. it may be better in some ways but it's a tremendous tool that we found. s >> one of the things i worry about with this digital learning, this shift that is inevitable. what happens to people or communities that don't have as much access to broad band, to good computing power. i think about public schools and public schools in difficult locations. does this widen the gap between not just the rich and the poor but people who just may have a very energetic and dynamic leadership that is able to invest in these things than people that are not. >> i think the gap, the technology side of the equation of the gap is easy to fix. it's a function we got to do this. we have to make certain that internet capability is delivered to every american because it will empower learning, empower distributing manufacturing. it will empower enhanced

outcomes in future digitally driven economy. all of those things. the real challenge is not that. we fixed that for all 11 of our k-through 12 schools that we operate. our digital high school that we operate. we made sure everybody had technology. 000 sab thousands of laptops and ways to connect. that's the trivial side. the harder side is this culture shift that learning will probably occur and should occur if we want to achieve the learning outcomes that we wish we had because we don't have them yet. we'll have to be able to deliver learning to every family circumstance, every personal circumstance, children, families, adults. the only way we can do that is in a technologically enhanced mode. the real challenge is the faculty and schools and teachers themselves, not the technology. >> everything you say says the teachers are at the heart of

this. i've thought that teaching is the profession that makes every other profession possible. yet, do you think we're paying enough attention to teachers as a society? >> no. we're definitely not paying enough attention. if you look at different cultures around the world, the scholar or the teacher for whatever set of complicated regions in the united states is is not held at the level of important or regard they should be. they're not empowered at the level they should be. we spend billions and billions of dollars on researching everything from the flavor of a potato chip to the brain inside a cruise missile but we don't create a lot of time and energy to help teachers to function in a society. taking that more broadly, we just have underinvested in innovation, underinvested in training, empowerments and we

have suffered the consequences because of that. my dad used to say to men when he something would go wrong, do i have your attention now. i'd say that to my fellow educators out there and every one in the policy world and the citizen world. do i have your attention now. look at what happens when we get a global pandemic and we're so unprepared to make a rapid adjustment. this is an example of the complexities that lie ahead. this covid crisis does allow us now to sort of learn what things are going to be like increasingly and to take advantage of, sadly, this crisis to accelerate our innovation and change. thanks. we have tried to answer many questions this hour but there are so many more especially revolving around every day life. how will we greet people? will we go to movie, restaurant, parties? will social life be changed forever? ariana huffington has given lot

offense thought of thought to all of this. welcome. >> thank you, fareed. >> when you look at this covid crisis, you say and you've written, that this is part of something much bigger that's been happening before. in the sense we don't want to go back to a normal because that normal itself was not very good. explain what you mean. >> so, we entered this pandemic with far major and growing challenges. the first was the increasing chronic diseases like obesity, diabetes, heart disease. the second was the mental health crisis. depression even before the pandemic was the number one cause of disability globally.

the third was something that we talked about endlessly at conferences but didn't do much about. the growing inequalities. the fourth, of course, was climate change. all these challenges have their own challenges have their own curve. and the coronavirus curve, we also need to actively work to flatten all the other curves that i mentioned, because we are incredibly more vulnerable to the coronavirus or any other virus that comes after, because of these challenges. we see, for example, the latest study of "new york times" admissions in hospital, of new, new city admission hospitals in the "new york times." that shows that 94% of those have chronic diseases. whether diabetes, hypertension -- >> you bring up a good point.

what worries me, covid exacerbates some of these challenges. talk about what covid does to depression, for example, and that sense of loneliness and despair. >> yes. so, of course, we see now that two-thirds of people who have been surveyed are talking about feeling more depressed, more anxious. definitely more stressed, because of all the uncertainty in front of us. >> and what about in that reset? do you think we come to recognize that maybe -- maybe we've been traveling too much? maybe it's easier -- there's a way to do all of these things while just being a little bit more still? >> absolutely. i've been talking to friends who have never spent 45 consecutive days with their children, and who have not sometimes seen their children for weeks, and

suddenly they recognize they can really do the work in a very different way. so what makes me optimistic that we come out of this krocrucible time of pain and losses, but i believe we can come out of it much stronger and more resilient than we entered this pandemic. >> what do you say to those people in pain, though, and lost their jobs, lost their dream. you know, the level of depression here caused by just failure. i mean, 35 million people in the united states alone are employed, god knows how many hundreds of millions outside. how do they grapple with that? >> so, of course, the losses have been enormous. but if we don't connect to that place of resiliency in us it will be much harder for people to get through these losses.

i mean, we've seen that histo c historical historically. we've seen people in the most extremely horrendous circumstances being able to survive, because they've tapped into that place. how we respond to this crisis. whether it's the crisis of the lost of loved ones, or our loss of jobs, will depend a lot on how connected we are to everything that gives us strength, and it's hard. it's incredibly hard to get to it, but if we know that that place exists and we can find it, and if we can also encourage everyone else to tap into their generosity, whether it's companies that are making decisions to give extra bonuses, like walmart did, or promise not to lay off employees, as salesforce and service now did, these are very important decisions that companies are

making that will define whether they really practice state capitalism or preach capitalism. >> you've been with your daughters 45 days. what is the secret to making this all an incredibly positive experience? >> so dinner together every night. definitely. having a cutoff point when we stop consumes coronavirus news so we can actually sleep, recharge and as you know, fareed, more and more people are reporting that they're having a harder time sleeping which makes us less resilient, and then everybody having a task. somebody's cooking. somebody else is doing the laundry. and it's just something, of course, that we never expected would be happening with two millennial daughters. >> arianna huffington, always a

pleasure. >> thank you so much, fareed. i want to conclude the special by giving you my take. drawing on my "washington post" column this week. despite the fact that in america at least the curve has not really flattened, we're all thinking about when and how things will get back to normal. but we should use this crisis as a way to rethink what normal means. the more closely you look, the more it appears that we human beings have been living in a way that makes future pandemics likely even inevitable. a disease oncologist, renowned virus hunter. he and his team venture bad caves in full protective gear to get the animal's saliva or blood to determine origins of a virus. in a conversation with me he was clear. we're doing things every day that make pandemics more likely. we need to understand this. it is not just nature. it is what we are doing to

nature. remember, most viruses come from animals. the cdc estimates that three quarters of new human diseases originate in animals. the coronavirus might simply have come from one of those wildlife markets in china where live animals are slaughtered and sold, a practice that should be banned around the world, but it's also true that as human civilization expands, building roads, clearing farmland, constructing factories, excavating mines, we are also destroying the natural habitat of wild animals. bringing them closer and closer to us. some scientists believe this is making the transmission of diseases from animals to humans far more likely. the virus that causes covid-19 appears to have originated in bats, which are particularly good incubators for viruses. scientists are still studying think, but we've seen how humor

encroachment can lead bats to look for food around farms, infecting livestock and through them infect humans. there are other paths of pathogens. most likely comes directly from our insatiable appetite for meat. as people around the world get richer they tend to eat more meat. some 80 billion land animals are slaughtered for meat each year. 80 billion, around the world. most livestock is factory farmed. an estimated 89% in america, about 74% around the world, according to one animal rights group, and that entails crowding thousands of animals, inches from heeeach other in gruesome conditions almost designed to incubate viruses and encourage them to spread getting more virulent with each hop. a quote by biologist rob wallace. factory farms are the best way to select for the most dangerous pathogens possible. factory farms are also ground

zero for new antibody resistant bacteria, another way towards worldwide infections. bombarded with antibiotics means bacteria that survive and flourish are highly potent. while these animals are not always the source of deadly infections, some 2.8 million americans are sickened by antibiotic resistant material annually, often 35,000 die every year according to the cdc and then there is climate change, which intensifies everything. transforming ecosystems, forcing more animals out of their habitats, and bringing tropical conditions to places that were previously temperate. scientific american reports the warmer weather and more variable conditions brought by climate change are making it easier to transmit diseases such as malaria, dengue fever, yellow fever, zika virus, west nile virus and lyme disease in many parts of the world. as we change ecosystems and

natural habitats, viruses can emerge which we have no immunity. in nay 2015 two-thirds of the population of a small antelope died suddenly, within a few weeks. a bacterium which had long lived in the animal without doing any harm suddenly turned virulent. why? the atlantic's ed young explains the region was becoming more tropical and 2015 was a particular warm, humid year. when the temperature gets really hot, he writes, and the air gets really wet, climate is the trigger, pastureella is the bullet. let's not just get back to normal. let change our ways to make normal life less dangerous, for the planet -- for nature -- and for ananimals, which, of

course, includes us. thanks to all of you for being a part of this "gps" special. see you every week and 10:00 a.m. eastern right here and cnn on sundays. hil oerch. thank you for joining us on this mother's day. i'm fredricka whitfield. we begin with the world attempting to get back to normal in the midst of a coronavirus health crisis. moment from now the prime minister of the uk will address the media, his nation one of the hardest hit. he himself survived the disease. we'll bring you his comments once they begin. as nations try to get back to normal the coronavirus pandemic is far from over. right now there are more than 4 million confirmed cases glob