children would be educated and would excel. we offer prayers to all families in mourning including our muslim friends marking the holy month of ramadan right now. may your loved ones rest in peace and may their memories be a blessing. erin burnett "out front" starts right now. out front next, breaking news. president trump takes on dr. fauci calling his caution on opening america's schools unacceptable and how does the virus travel through restaurants, offices and other contained spaces? we will show you exactly how. plus it's risky and even potentially deadly and thousands of people say they'll volunteer to be exposed to the virus. could that mean a vaccine sooner? the doctor behind the movie "contagion" is my guest. let's go out front. good evening. i'm erin burnett. "out front" tonight, the breaking news, president trump targets dr. fauci. the president going after his top infectious disease expert after fauci urged leaders to urge caution when it comes to reopening the economy and

american schools. >> dr. fauci yesterday was a little cautious on reopening the economy too soon. are you sure he's concerns. >> he wants to play all sides of the equation. >> when you say dr. fauci is playing both sides -- >> i was surprised by his answer, actually, because you know, it's just -- to me it's not an acceptable answer especially when it comes to schools. >> so trump was saying fauci's answer to schools specifically was unacceptable. so let's just, to be clear, play for you what fauci said. >> i think we better be careful if we are not cavalier in thinking that children are completely immune to the deleterious effects. the idea of having treatments available or a vaccine to facilitate the re-entry of students into the fall term would be something that would be a bit of a bridge too far.

>> okay. so obviously concerned about the impact of the virus children, but then he was specifically asked to clarify what he meant by a bridge too far and fauch i was very clear and he said i did not mean to imply at all any relationship between the availability of vaccine and treatment and our ability to go back to school. in the same testimony fauci warned more broadly of suffering and debt more of it if the united states reopens too soon. none of this is the message the president wants to hear and tonight as the death toll now tops 83,000 in the united states, sources tell cnn president trump and some of his top aides have begun questioning whether the real numbers are actually lower. in fact, at several white house task force meetings, senior officials have raised questions about how the cdc is compiling and tracking its data. yet again, the president is at odds with dr. fauci who believes the u.s. is actually undercounting the number of deaths. >> i think you are correct that the number is likely higher.

i don't know exactly what percent higher, but almost certainly it's higher. >> caitlyn collins is live outside the white house. you've got the president clearly and directly slamming dr. fauci tonight. >> reporter: and this is notable, erin, because we know based on our reporting that the president has privately bristled at dr. fauci when he's contra dikt di contradicted in briefing rooms and this is the furlthest he's gone to criticize dr. fauchy and you heard the reporter saying that dr. fauci was playing all sides of the equation because he's offering different advice in private than what he's saying in public? he sounded irritated by what dr. fauci had testified yesterday which as you watched and it was a very sobering analysis of where the country is yet and dr. fauchy and these other top health experts were basically

throwing caution on this idea of prematurely opening and what that could look like and the effects that that can have and what's notable is that answer about schools there. you saw dr. fauci talk about the effects that this is having on children. he said, of course, so far it's seen than what it is on adults and he was saying basically to rand paul, one of the president's allies which we should note is recovering from coronavirus that you couldn't just say point-blank that no kids are having effects from coronavirus so they should go back to school and that's the distinction they were making there and it was one of the most intense exchanges of the entire hearing with dr. fauci. it's notable that this is the most direct the president has gotten with his criticism of fauci except for that tweet where he re-tweeted #firefauci and something that the president later acknowledge he did see when he retweeted it. >> so caitlyn, there's this issue when he's taking on fauci and also the president

questioning the death toll number, right and directly there against dr. fauci. >> yeah. we are being told by multiple sources that the president and some of his top aides and not just the president have raised questions about how the death toll is being counted and basically, are they counting too many people and potentially should that be a reliable indicator that they're looking at as they're moving forward with the plans of reopening the country and we saw dr. fauci testify yesterday that he believes the death toll is almost certainly higher than what's being reported and talking about people who were dying at home so it's not being reported then because they're not going into the hospital. so that's another break that we're seeing. the question is whether the president is publicly going to raise those concerns that he has about the death toll. >> all right. caitlyn, thank you very much. >> and meanwhile, the number of cases around the country now mostly declining as americans face new and huge economic challenges. nick watt is out front. >> the biggest spike in grocery prices since 1974 says the

bureau of labor, one in four americans will lose their jobs says goldman sachs, but as states reopen trying to staunch that economic chaos, one model's projected death toll for the u.s. more than doubled in just two weeks. >> people have heard the message. they've gotten out and they're becoming more mobile and they're having more contact and we're seeing the effects already. >> in most states, new case counts are steady or falling for now, but rising in arkansas, south dakota and delaware. >> we're seeing fatigue of staying inside and also some mixed messages. one state is doing one thing. another state is doing something else. federal government has provided just general guidelines and so i think there's also some confusion. what is safe? >> today new jersey announced gatherings of people in cars are now allowed. >> if vehicles are closer than six feet apart then all windows, sun roofs or convertible tops

must remain closed. >> west virginia just announced they'll open tanning salons in about a week. >> i never dream individual my life that we've gotten all these calls in regard to the tanning businesses or tanning beds. our medical experts now feel like we're good to go. >> reporter: while washington, d.c., re-upped its stay at home order. >> through monday june 8th, and i should note that based on the data, i can revise this order at any time. >> a new cnn poll shows a 13% rise in those who say they visited friends or family in the past week. >> we took comfort in the fact that our kids were largely safe, and i wonder if some of that is our comfort with relaxing social distancing measures, but now 15 states are reporting rare cases of severe potentially covid-related reactions in

children. >> really high fevers, rashes and sometimes drops in blood pressure causing shock. >> the cdc planning today to warn physicians to look out for such symptoms. >> we have lost three children in new york because of this. 5-year-old boy, 7-year-old boy and an 18-year-old girl. >> and what does he think about schools opening in the fall? >> where are we going to be in september? i don't know. i don't know where we're going to be in august, you know? i'm trying to figure out june. >> reporter: here in los angeles county the beaches opened this morning, but masks are mandatory. this afternoon we were told that all retail can open, but curbside only. the message here is clear. yes, we are making progress. yes, we are gradually going to relax, but boy are we going to take it slow. erin? >> thank you very much, nick. out front now dr. sanjay gupta and the direct or of the

harvard global health institute who testified today before the congressional hearing on the coronavirus crisis. okay, sanjay, so president trump said fauci's comments on reopening schools were not acceptable, and he specifically said fauci was playing all sides. i mean, what do you think was happening here? is dr. fauci -- was he giving good advice? were his comments not acceptable in any way? how are we supposed to read this? >> he's been giving the same advice all along, erin. it depend how people want to interpret it at any given time. the idea that there's been specific criteria that have been out there that were released from the white house and those have been completely abandoned seemingly. no one's even talking about those anymore, and instead people are saying why don't we have a vaccine by the fall? why can't schools open despite the fact that these specific criteria by which these things might happen have not -- the places have not met these criteria yet and it boggles the

mind a little bit, erin. dr. fauci always chooses his words carefully and i think with regard to a vaccine by the time schools open, i think that would be a bridge too far. to be clear, he's never suggested that a vaccine might be available by this fall. erin, he's constantly striking this balance between hope and honesty. he doesn't want to jar people and he's been consistent to how he said and i don't know how it's considered playing both sides of the issue. >> the president questioning fauci's statements and questioning whether deaths are being overstated and dr. fauci clearly saying it is correct that the number is likely higher. it is almost certainly higher. so how concerning is this? that's a pretty crucial thing to now the president go on the other side of. >> so dr. fauci has a long track record of speaking truth and speaking the best scientific evidence, and sometimes people love it because they want to -- he says what they want to hear

and sometimes they don't love it because he's saying things they don't want to hear, but what makes him so incredibly valuable to the american people is that they know they can trust what he's saying and he's giving it to them straight, and that's what he did yesterday, and i know that some people didn't love his comments, but he's representing the best science and data and evidence that we have right now and he's right on all of those counts. >> sanjay, when fauci has said directly it is almost certainly higher and president trump is saying that he's now questioning as we understand, that deaths are being overcounted. is there any possibility that trump's theory is right? >> i -- i don't think so. i mean, i think, you know, the thing about the nature of these sorts of things is that these are confirmed infections and confirmed deaths. we know that there was inadequate testing early on ask there were people dying of respiratory illnesses that were thought to be flu or something like that early on that are more

likely coronavirus and we know there was a yale study that suggested maybe there were 15,000 more people who had died of coronavirus than were officially counted, and you know, this is sort of the nature of an early illness. we tend to undercount not over count. i'm not sure that it matters that much, erin. i'm not sure what the real context here is. a lot of people have died and maybe 15,000, 20,000 more and these are tragic figures and the fact that people are saying maybe it's a few thousand less or more. i'm not sure what the value is, and the thing that strikes me and ashish may agree, if your patient has a disease or infection in this case you recommend a course of therapy. the patient doesn't take the course of therapy and then complains that they're not getting better, what is the doctor left to do? take the therapy. this can help you. this can help get you through your illness and that's the position the country is in right

now, it seems. >> so trump again claimed tonight that we have more tests and better tests than the rest of the world. you are the testing expert and you testified at the congressional hearing today about testing and so when he says as he often does, we have more tests and better tests than the rest of the world, is he right? >> well, i don't know what better tests are. we have pretty good tests, but so do lots of other people. i don't know that our tests are any better. on the issue of whether we have more tests, the fundamental question is do we have the amount of tests we need for the size of the outbreak we have and the answer is no. i don't know a single public health person who disagrees with me, and if there is some scientific fact that i've missed or all of the other experts have missed i'd love to hear it from the president or any of his supporters, but the bottom line is that this is wanted a competition with do we have more tests than the italians or the germans, this is really an issue of do we have the number of

tests we need to make americans feel safe so when they go back to the office and when they go back to a coffee shop and when they send their kids to school they can feel comfortable that people are not infected and spreading the disease, and the short and long answer is no. we don't have that number of tests and that's what all of us are calling for. >> sanjay, states are opening and people are going out, and we know there's a lag here in terms of how long it takes a week or two before infections show up so we don't know what's going to happen in a week or two. i will say across the country, when you look across the country there are bright spots. you have nine cases where cases are going up and you have 19 where things are going down and when you take those numbers and there's plenty in there that say cautiously optimistic and then you see the states opening. do you see this as good news that will last? >> i think some of this is good news and certainly seeing numbers go down will be good news. i think the criteria, and this

is just the -- coming back to the numbers and the facts i'd love to see those numbers go down for 14 days in a row. there's a reason for that. once you feel like you've gone down that number of days, then inevitably, erin, as you know, there are people who become infected and we have testing and it's going to be a small enough number where you can find those people who are newly infected and you can isolate them and trace their contacts. the reason that you're doing that is because you know there will be new infections and you want to prevent that from being exponential growth and the numbers are coming down in some places and it has to be sustained and it has to be managed so the small numbers of infections don't start to spike? >> sanjay, thanks. >> dr. jha and dr. gupta, thank you very much. stunning images of how fast coronavirus can spread indoors as people prepare to go back to

work. people are starting to ask for personal information in restaurants and grocery stores. is this a price that americans are willing to pay? plus a renowned infectious disease agent also studied coronavirus. when does he think a vaccine will actually happen? and stanford and harvard telling many students it will be online again for the fall. so why is one major university in boston still planning to open up its campus to students from the u.s. and abroad? that's news a lot of people want to hear, too, and the university's president is out front.

in this time of social distancing, when taking a break from everyday life is critical to everyone's health, there is one thing we can all do together: complete the 2020 census. your responses are critical to plan for the next 10 years of health care, infrastructure, and education. let's make a difference, together, by taking a few minutes to go online to 2020census.gov. it's for the well-being of your community and will help shape america's future. ♪

and will help shape america's future. we're finally back out in our yard, but so are they. scotts turf builder triple action. it kills weeds, prevents crabgrass and feeds so grass can thrive, guaranteed. our backyard is back. this is a scotts yard. to ewhether you'reting these uncaring for your. family at home or those at work, principal is by your side. we're working hard to answer your questions. like helping you understand what the recently passed economic package can mean for you. we're more than a financial company. we're a "together we can get through anything" company. now, more than ever.

and right now, is a time for action. so, for a second time we're giving members a credit on their auto insurance. because it's the right thing to do. we're also giving payment relief options to eligible members so they can take care of things like groceries before they worry about their insurance or credit card bills. right now is the time to take care of what matters most. like we've done together, so many times before. discover all the ways we're helping members at usaa.com/coronavirus right now, there are over a million walmart associates doing their best to keep our nation going. because despite everything that's changed, one thing hasn't and that's our devotion to you

and our communities. our priority will always be to keep you and our associates safe, while making sure you can still get the essentials you need. ♪ tonight a resurgence of coronavirus in south korea with 119 cases traced back to one person at a nightclub. tom foreman is out front. >> reporter: a viral hot spot erupts in a south korean hot spot district and dozens come down with covid-19 and quickly authorities trace the origin to one man. how did they find him? they analyzed the gps signal of his home and found everyone they'd been near in china millions are being watched in a similar fashion and in the u.s., too, vigorous exforts afforts f

contact tracing and they'll be handing over their information. >> restaurants should retain a name and contact number for over 21 days. >> contact tracing whether through electronic apps or interviews with patients consists of sorting out the physical social network of an infected person and asking and compelling exposed people to quarantine. health officials say it certainly works in this japanese experiment a group of diners was unaware one of them had an invisible paint in his hands and it was clear how many had been symbolically infected. ? real world studies found the same thing with covid-19. professor aaron bromaage found nine others nearby and an outbreak in a call center from one worker to the next to the next. >> i want to strongly encourage you to participate in the contact tracing program. >> so many government officials

argue contact tracing is essential. >> it is the next major step in our effort to defeat the covid virus. >> but privacy advocates say the same tool for tracking the virus could be used to discover political activity, religious affiliations, private relationships, and a washington post poll found nearly three in five americans said they are unwilling or unable to use the infection alert system under development by google and apple. >> trust really matters in fighting a pandemic and people won't feel trusting in the system if it is not based on a public health need and there aren't robust privacy and security protections built into any tool that we might use. >> bottom line, there are a lot of questions about this. can you get enough skilled people to do it if you're going to do it in person? one out of johns hopkins says take first-year med dal students

and press them into the service. beyond that, will people accept being tracked by their phones and what about the people who don't use phones that much, the elderly and people in rural areas and poor people. if you're not tracking everyone are you tracking everyone effectively, erin? it holds promise, but a lot of questions still swirling around it. >> thank you very much, tom. it certainly shows when you contract people and you have no control over it as in south korea. it's not the american model most people will expect to see. let's go now to someone tom mentioned in his report, and professor, i appreciate your time. you wrote a blog and it now has more than 13 million views and basically, you went through how this spreads in indoor spaces which is extremely relevant coming into the summer because that's where a lot of people work. so how -- explain, exactly, i mean, easy would be an understatement in many ways, right, in terms of the spread? >> right.

you know, in an indoor environment when you're in there for a long time and someone is infected it can spread very, very easily. >> so then basically, does this come down to contact tracing essentially? >> you know, contact tracing is the way in which australian, new zealand and south korea got it under control. it's a vital tool in our public health arsenal to identify the sick, get their contacts isolated. it's just important to get this done to get back to some sort of normal. >> on this issue of how it spreads and the people are worried as they do start to come back to work. a new study came out moments ago, professor by researchers at the national institutes of health and the university of pennsylvania. they found that talking loudly for one minute, one minute in a confined space can generate 1,000 droplets of coronavirus particles and those droplets can

remain in the air for eight minutes and if someone inhaled the particles they could be infected. given what you studied, what do you make of those results? >> yes. that's the data, and i hadn't seen it and that's the data that needed to come out to show that it's out there in the air and with any sort of loud, projecting, singing, yelling it's going to put it out there and now it looks like we have the dina that hangs around in the end. someone is far gone from the space and it is still through it, and it still hangs in there. in the blog, you showed this from north korea and there was on the floor where this person worked there were 216 people and one of them has coronavirus, walks in and within a week 94 have coronavirus. how could that spread so widely? >> it can be the traditional

things that we talked about. contact surfaces, high contact surfaces are definitely a problem. railings, water coolers, things like that, but also you're dealing with an inclosed environment, where you've actually got someone breathing and putting those respiratory droplets into the air which have insfeks virus and just over a period of time, you breathe in those viral copies and infection can take hold. >> so you've got airplanes as a focus and people since march so some people are returning. we had a picture of the united flight completely full. that's newark to san francisco, but here's an animation about how droplets from a single cough -- ugh, throw through a plane cabin. okay. that's pretty startling. there's -- the cougher is in the

blue seat, everybody and you see the particles that goes through, you have rows, one, two, three, four, five, six on each side. is there any way to keep yourself sick on the plane, professor? >> if someone is onboard and is symptomatic and sick that needs to be stopped and we need to make sure that that doesn't happen, but the use of masks will definitely lower emissions from anybody. if anyone is wearing masks it lowers the burden together. i don't think you'd have that same projection that you're seeing with that particular animation. >> all right. professor, i appreciate your time. i encourage everyone who has not read your blog to read it. thank you so much? thank you, erin. >> it could have consequences and thousands of people are expected to the coronavirus in

the race to find a vaccine. >> this is designed to get people sick. >> that's right. >> university in boston, 40,000 students announces it plans to open its campuses this fall includi including dorms. the university's president is out front. can it help keep me asleep? absolutely, it senses your movements and automatically adjusts to keep you both comfortable. and now, save $1,000 on the sleep number 360 special edition smart bed, now only $1,799. only for a limited time. it's miracle-gro's biggest thing: performance organics. this organic collection of soil and plant food is what you have always wanted. no compromise. twice the results. guaranteed . miracle-gro performance organics.

confident financial plans, calming financial plans, complete financial plans. they're all possible with a cfp® professional. find yours at letsmakeaplan.org. ♪ ambient sound fades in and plays throughout. ♪ ♪ ambient sound begins to rise. ♪ ♪ ambient crescendos and then goes silent for the tagline. ♪ "ok, so, magnificent mile for me!" i thought i was managing... ...my moderate to severe crohn's disease. yes! until i realized something was missing... ...me. you ok, sis? my symptoms kept me- -from being there for my sisters. "...flight boarding for flight 2007 to chicago..." so i talked to my doctor and learned-

...humira is for people who still have symptoms of crohn's disease after trying other medications. and the majority of people on humira saw significant symptom relief... -and many achieved remission in as little as 4 weeks. humira can lower your ability to fight infections. serious and sometimes fatal infections, including tuberculosis, and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened,- -, as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure. tell your doctor... ...if you've been to areas where certain fungal infections are common and if you've had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections... ...or have flu-like symptoms or sores. don't start humira if you have an infection. be there for you, and them. ask your doctor about humira. with humira, remission is possible. if you can't afford your medicine, abbvie may be able to help.

if you can't afford your medicine, yeah. this moving thing never gets any easier. well, xfinity makes moving super easy. i can transfer my internet and tv service in about a minute. wow, that is easy. almost as easy as having those guys help you move. we are those guys. that's you? the truck adds 10 pounds. in the arms. -okay... transfer your service online in a few easy steps. now that's simple, easy, awesome. transfer your service in minutes, making moving with xfinity a breeze. visit xfinity.com/moving today.

tonight the race for a cure as researchers around the world work at unprecedented speeds to find a vaccine thousands are stepping forward to volunteer to be exposed to the virus itself and that's not how trials are done. drew griffin is out front. >> he donated a kidney last summer and now a.b. is ready to volunteer again, this time as a human guinea pig in a vaccine trial designed to infect volunteers with the virus the world has never known. just like the nurses and the doctors on the front line i'm willing to take risks to myself if it means that we can move through this as a nation and as a world. he's 20 years old and lives in new york and has seen what the pandemic can do and has signed up online to be a volunteer in a potential covid-19 human challenge vaccine trial.

unlike other vaccine trials in a challenge trial, a group of volunteers would first be injected with a potential vaccine and a second control group would be injected with a placebo, after allowing sufficient time for the volunteers who got the vaccine to hopefully build up immunities it's all challenged. all of the volunteers, those with and those without the vaccine candidate are intentionally contaminated with coronavirus. and potentially even deadly. yes, all of that, but it also might be a quicker path to an actual vaccine for the refst of us. >> this is designed to get some people sick. >> that's right. the intention is to make some people at least infected. >> mark lipsich, harvard epidemiologist whose idea is to use a challenge vaccine for covid-19 is gaining interest from the world health organization. >> this could save months off the time required to evaluate a

vaccine. multiple vaccines could be tried at the same time. controls put in place for proper medical care for all the volunteers and by selecting only young, healthy adults he says the chances of someone dying are extremely low. >> but it is not zero and that's why this is an altruistic act to volunteer for this. >> it is not just the risk, it is the unknown risk says professor robert reid at the university of south hampton in the uk. he's in favor of the idea, but insists there would need to be full disclosure. >> this case is different. we are not able to quantify the risk to the volunteer, and when we take informed consent from them we will have to say to them that we cannot say exactly what is going to happen to them. >> you're going to be infected with something for which there is no treatment for it this time. >> right. >> does that give you pause? >> it certainly gives me pause, and i don't want to be naive or arrogant, and i don't want to

hide myself from the fact that there is a serious not at all trivial risk to me doing this. >> despite the risks, 16,000 people from more than 100 countries have signed an online form saying they're interested in becoming volunteers and that includes u.s. army veteran, businessman, husband and father of four john gentle of alabama. >> yes, i am putting more people directly related to me at a greater risk if something were to go wrong, but i feel like the risk is low. >> right now this is hypothetical. there is no challenge trial going on, but erin, what's remarkable is the 16,213 people like abe and john who say they're willing to do this if it gets us to the end of the pandemic any sooner. erin? >> drew, thank you very much. it is pretty incredible that they are willing to do this. i want to go now to dr. ian lipkin and he's the director for the center of inmunity and

infection and the virologist behind the movie "contagion," you contracted and recovered from the virus yourself in february, but it was a long process. so dr. lipkin, when you see 16,213 people willing to sign up to be, you know, guaranteed to be exposed to this virus, and maybe the vaccine works and maybe it doesn't and maybe they're on a placebo it's a pretty incredible thing that they're willing to do that, is this what this unprecedented situation requires? >> i've been discussing this with colleagues for three months now. in fact, i thought this was an interesting idea, one that we should consider particularly once we started thinking about getting plasma trials online so that we would have something to offer people. we've been doing this sort of work with influenza for a long time, but there we have very active drug, so the moment that people showed evidence that they were infected we could treat them. here, in contrast, we don't have

the magic bullet to take out this virus. so it is an altruistic act. there are some members of my culture who feel this is not a good idea, and there are others who do. i'm not sure how i fall on this yet. >> so you're still deciding -- what's going to make you, you know -- what would make you to have a firm view here as to whether we should do this? >> we are right in the middle of a plasma trial. i am very encouraged by some studies that we have seen in the past. >> plasma is a treatment for people who get sick, right? >> okay. >> so if you have an antiviral that you know works and you have a way to suppress the immune response then i think you can remove a lot of the risk that these people would have to entertain and engaging in this kind of a trial, but the argument is clearly there that if you use the usual methods and we have to count on the fact

that we're going to see a difference in the arm of people who get the vaccine that's valid, people who get the placebo and if you've got and you're not make the right call about where you do the trial, it can take a very, very long time. so if we really want to telescope this period, i think that this is the way to do it. the other possibility and i've been pushing this one is to invest in more non-human primate studies. i think if we have more confidence if we showed that in monkeys this was a very protective vaccine. of course, there are many vaccines and the question is which one are you going to trial? >> right. right. that's the big thing because the trials do take whether you have a challenge or not, you have to have a lot of sign up and a lot of time. we talked about something you've been focused on a lot which is the origins of the virus epidemiologically and you traveled to china as part of this effort when a lot of people

weren't talking about this, you were over there trying to figure out what happened. president trump as we know has been repeating the idea that the virus originated in the wuhan biolab which reportedly focuses on coronaviruses. you confirm that you don't think that adds up even as an accidental leak out of that lab. why not? >> i think there's no evidence that there was a deliberately engineered virus, something that was created in that lab because the sequence analysis that we've done doesn't support that view. i can't rule out the possibility that there was an inadvertent leak by someone who became infected, but there's no evidence for that either. most of the times when we have these kinds of infections emerging these come from wildlife. they either go through an intermediate host as they did with sars as they did with mers, but until we look for evidence of infection in other animal species or we find evidence that this thing was actually present elsewhere, not in wuhan, but in

yunnan province where the closest bat sequence has been found, we really won't know. so i'm very eager to go to china, and i've been pushing very hard to do that, and as soon as i have permission to do so i will. >> and permission from them, is that the issue or are you talking about a pure travel issue or permission from china to be allowed the access you want? >> yeah. we have to be sensitive there if we want to work effectively with people, but you know, i have a lot of friends in china who tell me they're taking umbrage with the messaging that we continually hear about how it came from the united states. so i think we need to depoliticize this and actually get to the facts and the best way to do that is to work together with chinese scientists. this is what i've been doing since 2003, and i'd like to continue to do it. >> all right. dr. livekin, thank you very much. i appreciate your time.

>> take care. >> next, northeastern university says it plans to reopen all its campuses this fall. i'm going to speak to the university's president. >> and a troubling new study suggesting that the coronavirus test used daily by the white house is not reliable. what does that mean? how safe are people inside the west wing? it's best we stay apart for a bit, but you're not alone. we're automatically refunding our customers a portion of their personal auto premiums. learn more at libertymutual.com/covid-19. [ piano playing ]

ior anything i want to buy isk going to be on rakuten. rakuten is easy to use, free to sign up and it's in over 3,000 stores. i buy a lot of makeup. shampoo, conditioner. books, food. travel. shoes. stuff for my backyard. anything from clothes to electronics. workout gear. i even recently got cash back on domain hosting. you can buy tires. to me, rakuten is a great way to get cash back on anything you buy. rack it up with rakuten, sign up today to get cash back on everything you buy.

go to the pharmacy counter for powerful... congestion and pressure? claritin-d. while the leading allergy spray is indicated for 6 symptoms... claritin-d is indicated for 8... including sinus congestion and pressure.

claritin-d. get more.

for first-year harvard medical, dental and graduate students will all begin online. stanford university it is it is unlikely that all undergrads will return to the campus in the fall and this is on the state university said it is going to cancel all in-person classes. today president trump said it is time to reopen schools. >> i don't consider our country coming back if the schools are

closed and it is a very unusual situation and it's had very little impact on young people, and i would strongly say they should open. >> out front now, joseph aoun, he is the president of northeastern university in boston, and i appreciate your time. so northeastern, i know you've decided and you announced you intend to reopen your campuses in the fall. so what exactly does that look like? >> thank you for having me, erin, with you tonight. erin, let me make one thing very clear, the safety and well-being of our community is paramount. it's not negotiable. we believe that we can reopen in the fall and ensure that everybody is safe and secure. it's not going to be easy. it's going to involve that we rethink every single aspect of what we do. we have to rethink the classroom density. we have to rethink the density

in the labs and we are in the dorms. as a matter of fact, we just secured 2,000 additional beds to accommodate less density. we have to look at our athletic events in a different way. it is going to be a re-think of the whole operation in order to ensure that our students, our faculty, our staff and our community at large is safe and secure. >> so, look, the challenge is gargantuan and you need to be clear, the enrollment of undergrad and graduate schools, but you think it can be done in person? >> it can be done. it can be done in person. once again, we're not working in isolation, erin. we are working with other institutions and other universities in the city in boston. we are working with the city. we are working with the state. we are working with our scientists who are advising the white house and the cdc and the reopening and scientific

matters. so we believe that it's going to be possible, but we have to work hard at that. it's going to entail -- go ahead. >> i'm curious because, look, you are thoughtful and considerate of what you're doing. that's clear. you hear what's happening in california and then you hear about harvard, medical, dental, graduate classes all online for first year's medical and dental and it's just a mile from where you are, does that decision add up to you? you know, why do they come to such a different view? >> because every department in every university and every university has different context and different circumstances. we have been working as i mentioned to you with other peers, as a matter of fact, not only in boston, but in the nation as a whole and the education has announced that 70% of the colleges and universities have the goal to reopen in the fall. we are not outliars, but once

again, we have to do it in a different way. business as usual is not going to make it happen. >> all right. >> so there is a new normal. >> i appreciate your time, sir, and look, a lot of people are torn on this, but i know there are plenty of students and parents they really, really they want to go back in person and they want to do it safely. thank you very much. i appreciate your time. thank you. thank you, erin. >> also a troubling new study that the white house coronavirus test missed half the positive cases detected by another test and that calls into question repeated reassurances like this. >> everybody coming into the president's office gets tested and i felt no vulnerability. >> since i don't have the coronavirus i thought it would be a good opportunity for me to be here. >> i had a negative test today. i had a negative test yesterday. >> but when you only have a 50%

accuracy rate? this is stunning. you see dr. jonathan reiner here with me. as you know, he advised the white house medical team for eight years under george w. bush and is say those things -- they didn't realize what we now know. abbott is now saying that they're taking issue -- let me repeat this again -- missed almost half the positive indicatiocases missed by another test. it is consistent with the outcomes they are seeing. this could be an unreliable test, and this is what they're using to determine who gets to go around the president of the united states mask-free. >> right. first, it's important to realize that this test was rushed to market. it was not formally approved by the fda. it was approved using the fda's emergency use authorization, so it came to market very, very quickly. about a month ago, right after it came to market, a study from

the cleveland clinic suggested that it's a false/negative rate might be 15%. this study from nyu really well done, comparing it to a couple of different more established and reliable tests, suggests that using the device as described in the -- by the manufacturer, the false negative rate was 48%, which is basically a coin flip. using a slightly different technique, they were able to get a 33% false negative rate. not nonsufficient, not good enough. >> no, i mean, it's frankly shocking. i mean, this is what we have put as a country, the health of the president and the united states, the life of the president of the united states in this test. should the white house stop using these tests?

obviously they did it because you get a 15-minute answer. you know what you can do. the other test can take longer, 24, 48 hours. it would seem from this the right thing to do would be to stop using them for the purpose of being around the president, right? >> if you get a positive result, well, that's great. but a negative result is meaningless and they're really looking for negative results. we use this in the hospital because if we find a positive result in the emergency room, that helps us acutely. but it doesn't give us the reassurance. and we've been double testing these patients since we acquired the device. the white house has used it as a quick fix. instead of doing what the rest of the country has been asked to do, which is to social distance, to telework, to wear a mask to limit exposure particularly for the principals at the white house, they have tried to, you know, sort of use a quick fix and use this test. but it's nonsufficient. and now we're seeing how a virus can get into the white house because we're using a test that doesn't have the negative

predicted value to assure the folks there that everyone on the grounds does not have the virus. >> dr. reiner, thank you. i want to remind everybody you've had positive cases, the president's personal valet, the vice president's secretary. after she got it he tested negative and he was without a mass. thank you, dr. reiner. the judge in michael flynn's case appointed to determine whether flynn committed perjury. b you don't have to. with a painless, one-second scan you can check your glucose with a smart phone or reader so you can stay in the moment. no matter where you are or what you're doing. ask your doctor for a prescription for the freestyle libre 14 day system. you can do it without fingersticks.

learn more at freestylelibre.us. metastatic breast cancer is relentless, but i'm relentless too. because every day matters. and having more of them is possible with verzenio, the only one of its kind proven to help you live significantly longer when taken with fulvestrant, regardless of menopausal status. and it's the only one of its kind you can take every day. verzenio + fulvestrant is approved for women with hr+, her2- metastatic breast cancer whose disease has progressed after hormonal treatment. diarrhea is common, may be severe, or cause dehydration or infection. at first sign of diarrhea, call your doctor, start an anti-diarrheal, and drink fluids. before taking verzenio, tell your doctor if you have fever, chills, or other signs of infection. verzenio may cause low white blood cell counts, which may cause serious infection that can lead to death. life-threatening inflammation of the lungs can occur. talk to your doctor if you have new or worsening trouble breathing, cough, or chest pain. serious liver problems can happen. symptoms include tiredness, appetite loss, stomach pain,

and bleeding or bruising. blood clots that can lead to death have occurred. tell your doctor if you have pain or swelling in your arms or legs, shortness of breath, chest pain and rapid breathing or heart rate, or if you are pregnant or nursing. every day matters. and i want more of them. ask your doctor about everyday verzenio. we're returning $2 billion dollars to our auto policyholders through may 31st. because now, more than ever, being a good neighbor means everything. like a good neighbor, state farm is there. being a good neighbor means everything. to ewhether you'reting these uncaring for your. family at home or those at work, principal is by your side. we're working hard to answer your questions. like helping you understand what the recently passed economic package can mean for you. we're more than a financial company. we're a "together we can get through anything" company. now, more than ever.

women with metastatic we breast cancerers. standing in the struggle. hustling through the hurt. asking for science not sorrys. our time for more time - has come. living longer is possible and proven in women taking kisqali plus fulvestrant or a nonsteroidal aromatase inhibitor. kisqali is the only treatment in its class with proven overall survival results in 2 clinical trials. helping women live longer with hr+, her2- metastatic breast cancer. kisqali was also significantly more effective at delaying disease progression versus a nonsteroidal aromatase inhibitor or fulvestrant alone. kisqali can cause lung problems or an abnormal heartbeat, which can lead to death. it can cause serious liver problems and low white blood cell counts that may result in severe infections. tell your doctor right away if you have new or worsening symptoms, including breathing problems, cough, chest pain,

a change in your heartbeat, dizziness... yellowing of the skin or eyes, dark urine, tiredness, loss of appetite, abdomen pain, bleeding, bruising, fever, chills, or other symptoms of an infection, are or plan to become pregnant, or breastfeeding. avoid grapefruit during treatment. kisqali is not approved for use with tamoxifen. it's our time. to continue to shine because we are the thrivers. ask your doctor about kisqali, the only treatment in its class proven to help women live longer in 2 clinical trials. very breaking news, the judge in the michael flynn case has a mointed another judge to determine if flynn should be held in contempt of court for perjury and whether to drop the case. evan perez is out front.

evan, what does this move by the judge mean? >> reporter: it means, erin, that the prospect of michael flynn going free has to be on hold for a while longer. now, this judge has said that he opened a door, at least, to having third parties present information against what the justice department is saying, which is to drop the case against michael flynn, against what michael flynn's own legal team is saying, which is to drop the case against michael flynn. and one of the questions he's asking is whether or not michael flynn should face charges for perjuring himself before this very judge. if you remember, michael flynn pleaded guilty twice before two separate judges including this one and sullivan. he decided he did not lie. he didn't lie to the fbi is what he's saying now. one of those times he has to have lied before this judge and i think that's one of the reasons why the judge has decided to appoint john glee son to take a look at this. john gleason is a former judge, as you pointed out. he is now going to be examining

whether or not flynn should face charges for perjury before this judge. >> and what do we know about him, about gleason? >> he's a former judge in new york. he's now a private -- in private practice here in washington. his law firm represents sally yates who is a former deputy attorney general in the obama administration. she's one of the witnesses in all of this stuff. so it's going to be interesting to see. he co-wrote an op-ed in the washington post, erin, that raised some of these very questions that said the judge had the option if he wanted to, to pursue this avenue. and it looks like the judge read that op-ed and is now deciding he's going to go down this road. >> and quickly before we go, paul manafort, he's out. >> he's out. he's served less than a third of his sentence, 7 1/2 years in sentence that he was -- that he was serving in a western pennsylvania prison. he's now back at his home in

northern virginia because of the covid crisis. obviously he had health problems well before he went to prison. >> all right. thank you very much, evan perez. so paul manafort, he is out thanks to coronavirus. thanks to all of you for joining us. ac 360 starts now. >> and good evening, thanks for joining us. today saw a number of significant medical developments in the coronavirus outbreak, including a new study casting doubt on the accuracy of the rapid testing system used by the white house itself. we'll have more on that tonight. also the cdc preparing to alert health officials to a dangerous and potentially life-threatening condition in children that is linked to the coronavirus. we're going to talk to a dad who nearly lost his son along with the boy's brother who provided lifesaving cpr for his brother. it's an incredible story. in addition, there is new research that's coming out today showing the virus can attack far more than just the lungs. it is, according to the study, a multi-orga