hey, everybody, i'm chris cuomo. this is actually the second hour for us tonight because we're subbing in for coob, but this is

prime time. in 48 hours, some states will reopen in some way. we're back, says the president. are we? even if we do it unintelligently, even if we do it opening up to risk? we always knew we had to reopen. you know when they would say, to reopen or not? we knew we had to reopen, it's always been about how. the question has never talked to you about how. why? it's too hard. why do you think? reopen, vaccine or not. reopen, testing or not. reopen. why? because that's what you want to hear, that's what i want to hear. but that's b.s. politics. and let me tell you something, democrats, you're getting played, too, because you're the party of no because trump is the party of yes. reopen, yay! you guys, but we have to, but we have to. that plays as no. we all have to get on the same page. it is not a question of whether

to reopen or not. we have to reopen. there is no other choice. the only issue for our leaders is how. like wisconsin? where you have a weird legal battle and nobody wants to work with each other, because of this political b.s. where left and right is everything and reasonable means nothing. they reopen with no rules. the wild, wild west, says the governor. no testing plan to prevent any type of outbreak? that's where we are right now. we have to take a look at the situation, we have to look at the facts, and we have to figure out the best way to get where we want to be. now, also tonight, that same formula applies to the case in georgia. we have new video that gives more context to what the accused thought about ahmad arbery.

were they right? we have a better answer than ever tonight. what do you say? facts first. let's get after it. all right. is so the president says he knows what's going on. i want to talk to someone else. i want to talk science. it's good to have you, professor. don't freak out, i'm not going to drag you into politics, i promise. >> thanks for having me on the show, chris. >> i want to tee it up for you, because that's the challenge. we're playing the question of this false binary proposal, reopen or not? the president is on the side of reopening, and anybody who qualifies that with this nasty talk of testing and tracing, very tedious. this discussion of masks, maddening. they're not about reopening if they're talking to you about those things. you fall into that camp. what do you want people to know about what the real choice is at

play? >> when you're going out, you have to know the risks. just like you, i want to get back out. i want to go to a bar, i want to go to a restaurant. but i want to do that safely and make sure that it's data driven in the decision that we actually use. so that's where i come from when i'm thinking and analyzing situations about what my day-to-day life should look like. >> what i asked the professor to do, he wrote a really beautiful piece, a study of the where and how. it's the how. he's all about the how. i believe that's the only question for us. when you look at wisconsin, what bothers you about it elementally about something we could do, getting back to the bar and restaurant, but not how they do it why? >> so they went out and they

celebrated. all of a sudden you end up with people in an enclosed space, and with all the data coming out with publications of farmers on the front line show where there are these large spots with outbreaks occurring, and it just seems like you'll go a few steps backwards by doing this particular plan. >> which is really no plan. which is to just open up with no spacing, no covering, no kind of discretion. we see something similar when it comes to even open spaces. indoor, obviously, is a big exacerbating factor. but even outside, the scenes in central park. everybody wants to go outside, the seasons are changing, it's getting to be beach season and lake season and park season. what is the right way in terms of how to do it? >> so if you're in an outdoor space, the risk drops down straightaway. but you've also got to consider what the current prevalence of

the disease is in your community, and it still is quite high in new york. so if you are outside and you are in a park, we still should be practicing appropriate physical distancing between members that aren't in your household. if they're in your household, then you can sit on the same rug together. but if you are meeting up with people that are not in your household, we need at least six feet apart in order to stop these transmission chains between houses. >> oddly, my 17-year-old daughter says that if you're in the same household, you must be at least 15 miles away from where she is when she's at a park or the beach. so i will have to remind her of the science involved here. to the beaches. california is reopening, but they are following something that does sound like it came out of your research and your recommendations. you can go to the beach. you can run on the beach, you can run in and swim at the beach, but you cannot sunbathe. why is that a fair compromise,

in your mind? >> well, again, outdoor spaces pose low risk as long as you are maintaining that social distance. you don't want to be in the spray zone of somebody's talking, somebody's sneezing or coughing, you want to keep that distance away. so going for a jog along the beach, going for a surf, just a walk poses very little risk. but when you are stationary, someone is going to come along and sit beside you, and you end up closing that distance down. i don't see a huge problem with a solitary sunbather, but we're creatures of habit and we start coming close together, and you just might inadvertently break that zone, and then again start a new transmission chain from what should be a nice, relaxing, energizing time outdoors. >> so it's distance and

duration. how close are you and how exposed are you and for how long? now, the boogie man here, we're getting a break on it right now because the school year is effectively over just about everywhere. but in the fall, it will be back, and that is the big challenge. we're talking about colleges now. but k-12 is going to be the big sweep, professor, because people can't go back to work if their k-12ers don't have somewhere to go. how do you do that safely? >> my son, he wants to go to school. my daughter wants to go to school. i want them at school. and i know that's on everybody's mind. we want that answer. and, unfortunately, we don't have it. the fantastic thing that we do have in the united states is time. we're not going back to school this year, but we've got four months before school starts back up in september. and thankfully there are countries around the world that haven't got the same disease burden that we have, but they're

starting schools back up. we have time to get the data to make good decisions about whether schools should open in person come the fall. i know we want those plans now, but we do have time. plan for the worst. it may be remote. but if we get great data that says children are not involved in the transmission of this, then we can go back to a normal-looking -- it will be adjusted, but some sort of school schedule. we have time to get good data for this. >> and, of course, the more prudent you are now, the less cases you have carrying into the fall when you have a whole exacerbation of different factors. the way you outline what we have to take into consideration in the classroom really is sobering. it really is the worst of everything. you got the same air circulating, you got the density, you got people close to each other for long periods, you have lots of same surface

touching, you have water fountai fountains, social bathrooms, lunchrooms, the transportations. they really are the perfect combination of everything we have to look at, and professor, you really do give us the best cause for optimism right now which is time. don't rush it. we shouldn't have been rushing any of this, but that's the political part. that's what you cannot give us an answer to and you're probably better off staying out of it. professor erin bromage, thank you so much for being here toechblt t tonight. the best to your family and the best to you. >> thank you so much for having me on your show tonight. >> the pleasure is mine, and i hope you got this at home. it's about how. those are the considerations. he could say, yeah, beaches. yay! he's be a little bit more popular, i bet you. now he's got this comma. comma, but. but that's the big deal. the "but" is everything for us right now, how you do it. so whatever you think of the president's talking points on this pandemic, i'm telling you,

he's playing it the right way in terms of how you reward your politicians, all right? he may be outmaneuvering some of his fiercest critics on this in the messaging. all right, here's the argument. the democrats are being cautious. they're saying, take it easy, we got to go slow, we got to wait. it's frustrating americans. let's test with andrew yang. he's here next. what's the right way politically? no, just like why is everyone making sourdough now... but yes, you're gonna want 5g. at&t is building 5g on america's best network. visit att.com to learn more. a lot goes through your mind. with fidelity wealth management,

your dedicated adviser can give you straightforward advice and tailored recommendations. that's the clarity you get with fidelity wealth management. "ok, so, magnificent mile for me!" i thought i was managing... ...my moderate to severe crohn's disease. yes! until i realized something was missing... ...me. you ok, sis? my symptoms kept me- -from being there for my sisters. "...flight boarding for flight 2007 to chicago..." so i talked to my doctor and learned- ...humira is for people who still have symptoms of crohn's disease after trying other medications. and the majority of people on humira saw significant symptom relief... -and many achieved remission in as little as 4 weeks. humira can lower your ability to fight infections. serious and sometimes fatal infections, including tuberculosis, and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened,- -, as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure. tell your doctor... ...if you've been to areas where certain fungal infections are common and if you've had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections... ...or have flu-like symptoms or sores. don't start humira if you have an infection.

be there for you, and them. ask your doctor about humira. with humira, remission is possible. if you can't afford your medicine, abbvie may be able to help. if you can't afford your medicine, some companies still have hr stuck between employeesentering data.a. changing data. more and more sensitive, personal data. and it doesn't just drag hr down. it drags the entire business down -- with inefficiency, errors and waste. it's ridiculous. so ridiculous.

with paycom, employees enter and manage their own data in a single, easy to use software. visit paycom.com, and schedule your demo today. until i found out what itst it actually was.ed me. dust mite droppings! eeeeeww! dead skin cells! gross! so now, i grab my swiffer sweeper and heavy-duty dusters. duster extends to three feet to get all that gross stuff gotcha! and for that nasty dust on my floors, my sweeper's on it. the textured cloths grab and hold dirt and hair no matter where dust bunnies hide. no more heebie jeebies. phew. glad i stopped cleaning and started swiffering. and get way more.ith wso you can bring yours vision to life and save in more ways than one.

for small prices, you can build big dreams. spend less, get way more. shop everything home at wayfair today. the only question people want to know more than anything is when do we get back? the president's answer, right now, brother and sister, right now. i don't care about testing, i don't care about vaccines, i don't care about masks, i don't even wear one. let's open up, i'm with you. now, what are his opponents saying? what is the left saying? what are the democrats saying? well, we have to figure out how to do this.

we have to be smart, we have to be prudent about it. we may have to take more time. you have to read the different levels. you have to be going through science with this. they're right, but maybe they're also wrong politically. how so? well, let's look at it through the lens of november, and let's give this argument the best case it can have from a much more superior mind. former presidential candidate andrew yang. good to see you, brother. how's the family? >> it's doing well, chris. everybody is happy and healthy. i'm glad -- you feel like you're 100%, man. i felt for you going through the recovery period. >> i felt for me. so it's good to be back. thank you very much, andrew. have this conversation with me. here's my take. of course, you have to go through science. of course we have to be pragmatic, but man, that sounds like you're holding me back politically. when the president says, reopen now, brother, any way we can.

let's get after it, man. this is what it's all about. back to work, back to fun. who do you think they're going to vote for, me or you? >> we all want the same things, and if you look at the polling, chris, the vast amount of americans agree that we should get back to work, but we need to do it in the right way. when you look at georgia and they say, hey, we're open for business, do you know what people didn't do? run out to bars and restaurants and think everything is 100% back to normal and safe. we're human beings. we're not just all going to say, like, the government says we're open so everything is back. everybody is on the same page, frankly, as joe biden where we want to get things open, we want the economy going, but the only way to do that, really, is to get the virus under control. >> andrew, you sound like the party of no. i'm the party of yes.

i want to go now. i don't want to think i have to lock myself in my house because i don't know how to live my life. people are starving. even the stipend you give to people won't hold them for long. i'm not about buts. this is politics, andrew. aren't you guys a little worried that you're being put into a box by the president? >> i'm not worried because i've seen the polls, chris. the vast majority of americans are on the same page if you look at what they're concerned about. number one is health, and that makes sense. we're in a situation where our loved ones, you know, our vulnerable -- like, i haven't seen my mom in months, you know what i mean? that kind of thing. that's what americans are thinking about. so when you say, like, oh, this is a political winner for republicans, it's just not borne out by the polling. the polling supports joe biden and the democrats and most

reasonable people, which is we want to get things open but we want to get things open according to the data, according to public health guidelines and in a way that balances life and death. >> but what's going on in this country right now? andrew, you learned this uniquely. one of the first things that drew me to you as a candidate for my audience was your acro m acronym: math. make america think harder. why? because what's at a premium right now? not thinking and acting. science is fake, it's all about agendas. we have to wait for them to tell us what to do. who is going to tell us, the deep state? the guys who say don't wear a mask, you don't need a mask, touch your face? now you need a mask or you're going to die? that's what's going on in this country, andrew. you have it on right now on a pin on your lapel because we do not do critical thinking in this country, we do expedience and

what is easy. easy is reopen. i don't want to listen to yang with his party of buts and wait, wait, wait. i say do it now. >> one thing i will say, chris, we should never put out extreme scenarios where we know we can all stay indoors until the vaccine arrives like 12 months from now. that's not realistic. so this is going to be a period of difficult choices and tradeoffs, and that's something that democrats are leading with, where we know it's not realistic to say everyone is going to be in your home for months on end. so then we have to start thinking about what the tradeoffs are, what are the precautions and measures we can take that will allow us to reopen places of business, to be able to go out to shops again, and that includes things that most americans are already adopting around social distancing and masks and cleaning and washing the hands. i mean, we're all doing it, really. >> that's the key. see, that's the key, andrew. you're saying it the right way.

you guys need more yang in that gang. because you're saying reopen. i'm a businessman. i want to reopen. i want it now, yes. but like this. see, that's the key. because what's happening politically is you're letting trump get away because he's in power, right? you're letting him get away with the onus of power just by saying he wants to reopen. he never has to answer how. and because you guys seem to be just saying, well, we can't just do it like that, he doesn't have to say how. whereas if you said, yeah, we want to reopen, too. we have a plan, do you? he doesn't have a plan. he's saying testing is not necessary. why? testing is hard. testing slows down your process of reopening. he doesn't like it. masks are bad. vaccines you probably don't need. it will disappear miraculously. i know it all sounds like b.s., but in politics, if it feels good, people go for it. you say polls. i say ask hillary clinton about the polls. they change fast and they go

with the flow. people want to reopen. i never thought i would see what i've seen in wisconsin, andrew. i bet you and i would have thought, they'll never do it like that. look at wisconsin. >> i'm sure you can go into a bar anywhere and people aren't adhering to social distance guidelines and whatnot, but most americans take this very seriously, they're not rushing back out in droves, and it's going to be like that until we get testing, until we get better data. the fundamental question here really is the confidence that americans have to actually go out and feel like they and their family members are going to be safe. >> i think it's going to be about opportunity. i think we'll see it here in new york. look, wisconsin is a real lab right now about whether or not the polls will bear out or whether the opportunity will create the necessity of wanting to join in. we'll see when the beaches start to open and whether people respect the rules. but my feeling is, with human nature when you give people an ability to do something, they start to do it, and prudence and

caution becomes less of the equation. but we'll see, and i think it's going to be huge in the election, andrew. that's why i pushed hard to get you on a friday night with little notice. so thank you for taking the call, andrew. it's good to have you tonight. i've missed you. >> no problem, but yeah, democrats are all about reopening. we just want to reopen the right way that looks out for people and families. >> that's the right way to say it. it's about time i started hearing it from you people. who is you people? the democrats. have a good weekend. best to the family. >> you, too. thank you, chris. >> that's why i went to yang early on when he was one of a field of gazillion. i was like, what's that math about? no, no, make america think heard. critical thinking, what works and what doesn't? don't play people fire suor a s. don't hit people with tired solutions. i know the polls say we all want to do it the right way, but

people want to reopen and they want as few restrictions as possible. you'll see it play out in the election. remember that. a lot of newly released video and new questions about the months leading up to the ahmaud arbery shooting death. it's not about what he did and whether that makes what they did okay. no, it isn't. but if we go back to last autumn, we will see the development of an idea in the head of the accused, something that's so hard in the law to develop that they thought they knew this guy, and they may well have been wrong. arbery's mother and one of the family's attorneys are here tonight. they're looking for answers and so are we, next. we live in uncertain times. however, there is one thing you can be certain of. the men and women of the united states postal service. we're here to deliver cards and packages from loved ones and also deliver the peace of mind of knowing that essentials like prescriptions

are on their way. every day, all across america, we deliver for you. and we always will. (vo) at verizon, we're giving those who serve our best pricing ever. $30 per line for all nurses, teachers, first responders, military, and their families. plus, up to $700 off the oneplus 8. because the people we rely on deserve a network they can rely on. "show me what you're made of." so we showed it our people, sourcing and distributing more fresh food than anyone... our drivers helping grocers restock their shelves. how we're helping restaurants open pop-up markets. and encouraging all americans to take out to give back. adversity came to town. so we looked it in the eye. and it won't be us... that blinks first. just between us, you know what's better than mopping?

anything! at the end of a long day, it's the last thing i want to do. well i switched to swiffer wet jet and its awesome. it's an all-in-one so it's ready to go when i am. the cleaning solution actually breaks down dirt and grime. and the pad absorbs it deep inside. so, it prevents streaks and haze better than my old mop. plus, it's safe to use on all my floors, even wood. glad i got that off my chest and the day off my floor. try wet jet with a moneyback guarantee subut when we realized she wasn hebattling sensitive skin, we switched to new tide plus downy free. it's gentle on her skin, and dermatologist recommended. new tide pods plus downy free. safe for sensitive skin with eczema and psoriasis. you turn 40 and everything goes. tell me about it. you know, it's made me think, i'm closer to my retirement days than i am my college days. hm. i'm thinking... will i have enough? should i change something? well, you're asking the right questions. i just want to know, am i gonna be okay? i know people who specialize in "am i going to be okay."

i like that. you may need glasses though. yeah. guidance to help you stay on track, no matter what comes next. ♪

all right, quick bit of business to go through from capitol hill. breaking news. the house just passed a $3

trillion coronavirus relief bill. manu raju joins us now. thank you, manu, for the quick work. what do we know about the vote? >> the bill passed by 208 to 199 margin, a very close margin that came in the aftermath of an aggressive effort by nancy pelosi, the house speaker, to lock down votes. there were a number of democrats particularly in the districts the president carried that were concerned about this bill. ultimately 14 democrats broke ranks. they voted against this plan. one, pete king of new york, voted for it. they needed 248 votes for it to pass. it passed at a small margin. this comes on the heels of already passage of several bills that total nearly $3 trillion already, which was mounted by one of the most aggressive efforts by washington ever

during the coronavirus pandemic. the republicans were against this plan. they contended the price tag was too much, and right now republicans, including the white house, is saying there needs to be a pause for any additional relief measure. they are not committing to any other package to move forward, even as some republicans are calling for an additional package for state and local money, particularly for governments that have been hit hard through this crisis. in this package, there will be 1 trillion alone for state and local governments, but now that this bill has passed the house and has no chance of moving forward, the question ultimately will be what will congress agree to now, what is the next relief package? that will only intensify pressure particularly on republicans who so far don't want to move forward to make a decision about whether they should start to negotiate with democrats, but the democrats who voted against this, chris, argued that this was simply a messaging bill that they should

have sat down and cut a deal first before moving forward on this. but nancy pelosi was able to convince enough of her colleagues that this was the right way to go to create the first step in presumably getting to that bipartisan outcome. of course, one other significant move tonight, the house for the first time will now be able to vote remotely. they passed a rules change that would allow the chamber to operate while members are away from the capitol so they could continue their business. it's the first time ever in history that the house will be allowed to do just that, and members are leaving now and they'll be gone for some time. i heard one democratic member say, see you in september. so the house will continue its work but now away from washington. chris? >> manu raju, thank you very much. we'll talk more about what the technological difference means. it's not as easy as saying, finally, you're catching up with the rest of us. it means something a little different to not have lawmakers present and around each other in a process like this.

but we'll get to that in time. one thing to remember about that vote, when you don't get something right the first time, it's hard to fix it, especially in d.c. they put all the responsibility on reopening on the states. testing, tracing, how to do it, all the different regulations, and then they left the states alone. they didn't give them the money to deal with all the huge shortfalls they have. so now the states have no money and they have more responsibility than the federal government. it's going to be tough to fix it. reminder, we're only at the beginning of the process in georgia. let's be honest, nothing happened for two months, and it seems for no or bad reason. we now have the mcmichaels attorneys continuing to push that they've been vilified, that we don't know the whole story. well, we don't, but we know a hell of a lot more than we did before we started looking. we've got numerous videos of unidentified people trespassing at the construction site that

ahmaud visited on the day of his death. the arbery family attorneys can only confirm that he was there that day, february 23rd. the neighbor who actually took the video of his death maintains he doesn't know the mcmichaels. and, of course, the arbery family which has been pushing for answers long before a video was released is still saying, we need to know why this happened. ahmaud's mother wanda cooper jones is with us tonight along with one of the family's attorneys, lee merritt. ma'am, i am sorry to meet you under these circumstances, but thank you for taking the opportunity to talk to us about your son and what you think of the developments. >> thank you. >> counselor, as always, appreciate your attendance. i'm going to talk to you, but feel free to weigh in as you feel warranted. ma'am, what do you make of all of these videos that are coming out about who went in and out of this house and what they might mean? what do they mean to you?

>> actually, i didn't take a look at the videos. i'm actually kind of afraid to take a look at the videos. from what i can see from the videos, it doesn't look like my son at all, especially on the 11th. >> do you care, does it matter whether he was in that house or who has been in the house or how many times? what do you think of that entire group of speculation? >> that's not really important at this point. what i'm basically focusing on is what happened in the street on the 23rd of february and when he was killed. >> i want to hear something about your son in terms of what you understood, young man, 25 years old, about his character in terms of how he was in confrontation. how was ahmaud when people pushed up on him the wrong way? >> well, actually, the way that i raised ahmaud is if he was

confront confronted, if he was able to avoid it, do what he could to avoid it. but if he was in a position to defend himself, i did teach him he had to defend himself. >> lee, you know why i'm asking. because the only argument i'm seeing -- we heard defense counsel say something very odd, which is they're going to put on evidence. they have no burden to put on evidence, but they're saying they're going to put on evidence. the only evidence they can put on is justification. justification means self-defense to everyone watching right now. lee, what do you want people to know about what you've learned about ahmaud and what that situation was like from his perspective that people should remember when they're looking at the videotape and hearing the idea that these guys had to do what they did? >> well, what we now know from the homeowner who has released several surveillance videos from his property that was under construction was that several people on a regular basis stopped by this property

daytime, nighttime, without permission. and none of those people were vilified, none of them were criminalized, only the young black man that they eventually caught up with on february 23rd was criminalized and certainly he was the only one who was murdered. and we also learned just recently, really within the hour, that there was a text message early on from law enforcement to residents of the s scintilla shores community saying, if you have a trespasser and you want it dealt with quickly, call gregory mcmichael. that was months prior to ahmaud's murder. so you have that entire community being deputized. and the claim that he made earlier that he didn't know mcmichaels, that claim is starting to be eroded now. >> i don't know anything about this. let me be clear, this is from

the atlanta journal constitution. first of all, ms. cooper-jones, i'm sorry that you have to kind of be exposed to this talk of what's going on into the case. anything you want to say to people, you obviously are free to say. but i want to learn as much as we can to help people understand this context. if it gets too much for you, just let me know and i'll end the krconversation and i'll jus continue with counsel. i'll get this information from lee one way or another. i'm not worried about that, but as long as you're good. lee, i don't know anything about this. i know the agc has it, i don't have it in my own reporting. but you can't send a text and deputize a community. forget color of authority, this isn't legit, but what do you understand about this text and who it went to? you can't text a whole community. what do you know about this? >> the text went directly to the homeowner of the construction site, mr. english. so that's who it went to. but in response to that text

message, the neighbors got ahold of it and they said, essentially, their behavior from that point forward was, law enforcement has told us that we can deal with this if we use gregory mcmichael. so it's not a coincidence that gregory mcmichael and his son were seen ten days later or weeks later on a video murdering ahmaud arbery. >> now, greg mcmichael was a cop, was no longer a cop, was retired, and there is some speculation about how things went for him during the end of his tour. but, still, based on what we see in these videos, lee merritt, do you believe that the mcmichaels thought that they knew who ahmaud was from the videos and that that is why they flew out of their house after him on february 23rd when he was just jogging by? >> i think they knew that he was on the property that day and they knew then a black male was on the property before, and they

probably suspected that it was him, and that because of what law enforcement told them, they have the authority to try to arrest him. i think that they had that belief, although that is contrary to the law. >> do we know anything about the police telling greg mcmichael and/or his son that they were in any way empowered to do anything in terms of local policing? >> no, only by inference. the text message to the homeowner says, contact gregory mcmichael, here's his address and cell phone if you have action on that videotape. >> what does it mean to you that it seems like one of the people on the tape that may or may not be ahmaud -- again, i don't think it's necessary for a legal analysis, but usually it's a gift. usually you don't know what they were thinking. here we have a pretty good idea of what he was thinking. the guy was there to get water. what does that mean to you in the clouds of speculation that we're seeing?

>> so the homeowner knows the layout of that entire property, he knows that ahmaud moved to where the couch was. he knows he never took anything, he never did anything illegal on the property except possibly being there, although i don't know that any "no trespassing" signs were posted. with all that information, we know that ahmaud couldn't possibly have been doing anything that warranted a citizens' arrest which requires a felony and that these men were now outside the bounds of the law. >> i know you're disheartened by this, ms. cooper-jones, and i can't imagine being counsel to your head and heart during a time like this. but the more you learn about what went into this situation and what was waiting for your son that day, how do you feel about it? >> it makes me very angry that

my son's life was taken so senselessly. they didn't respect his life at all. he was just a nobody for them. >> how confident are you that your son was there on a jog? >> very confident. >> and the idea that, well, he wasn't dressed for jogging, he had cargo pants on. what does that mean to you? >> regardless of what he was wearing, my son was out on a jog. >> and you had seen him jog in a lot of different outfits? >> that is correct, sir. >> and i'm jogging that distance from home, was that unusual? >> not unusual at all. >> had he ever said anything to you about getting water at a particular house or that anybody was looking at him funny in that neighborhood or anything like that? did he have any concerns? >> no, he never shared any concerns. that's why i know that his death

was caught off guard. he had no clue that he was in danger. >> do you think that ahmaud, if he knew people were trying to get him, that he would have continued running down the middle of the street? >> no, sir. >> what do you think he would have done, knowing your son? >> he would have stayed away. >> he would have made a break for it, try to get away from the cars? >> exactly. >> hey, lee merritt, you said something i wanted to pick up with you on. william roddy bryant. he is mentioned in the police report by one of the accused, by mcmichaels who said, roddy tried to run him off. not me, not me, not me. i didn't do that the. . >> really, just tantamount to a deposition on your show, i listened to an attorney saying he was at home, minding his own

business. and then within minutes, he was in his truck holding that camera, recording an ambush. it had to be coordinated. there is no way to explain minding his own business on the couch to minute later filming ahmaud's murder. >> why is it even charged. >> i think there needs to be some substantiation of the facts. i think people need to close their mouths. i think we'll find these neighbors have been talking, they've been sharing information, and additional evidence will come forth. there was coordination between several members of the community, and i expect more going forward. >> you know what, lee, there's more i want to talk to you about. we'll follow up with agc and see if we can get the reporting. you know what? i can't do it.

wanda cooper-jones, i'm very sorry the loss of your son has provoked all this. the only thing i can say is the fact that you have a lot of people pushing for answers to make sure there is no carriage of injustice here it. they know it happened, they k w know. and we will not ignore this story again. i hope you're able to heal with your family. >> thank you so much. >> thank you so much. if you need anything, we are a call away. god bless and try to enjoy the weekend if you can at all. >> thanks, chris. >> there are questions with a

legal analysis. i've got my show coming up with laura coates. we don't have that same text message. a former federal prosecutor, laura coats, next. everyone has a story.

we have different needs. but one thing we share is wanting to make our lives the best they can be. if you have medicare and medicaid, a dual complete plan from unitedhealthcare can help. giving you more benefits. at no extra cost. and a promise to be there for you. whatever your story may be. to learn more, call or go online. dual complete from unitedhealthcare. it's starting to people are surprising themselves the moment they realize they can du more with less asthma. thanks to dupixent, the add-on treatment for specific types of moderate-to-severe asthma. dupixent isn't for sudden breathing problems. it can improve lung function for better breathing in as little as 2 weeks and help prevent severe asthma attacks. it's not a steroid but can help reduce or eliminate oral steroids. don't use if allergic to dupixent.

serious allergic reactions can occur, including anaphylaxis, which is severe. tell your doctor right away about signs of inflamed blood vessels, such as rash, shortness of breath, chest pain, tingling or numbness in your limbs. tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection and before stopping any asthma medicines, including oral steroids. du more with less asthma. talk to your doctor about dupixent.

so, turns out a lot of people walked into that construction site, which is pretty typical of a construction site, right? now, the young african-american males that show up in the videos, are they ahmaud arbery or note? family says they don't know. and i don't either. the question is why would it even matter? let's take this to a top legal mind, former federal prosecutor laura coates. now, we know why it matters for the accused, because they clearly thought they knew something about ahmaud arbery and put him in every one of these locations and obviously had a thing about him, but in

terms of whether it is him or not, in terms of if there's any basis of making what they did okay, is there anything there? >> no. i mean, think about this, chris. when you want to have a comprehensive and wholistic investigation, you want to think about the full timeline. you want to know what transpired. you want to know if there was any indication to substantiate the claims made by travis mcmichael and his father about a rash of burglaries to get their state of mind. that is important for a self-defense claim and prudent for any prosecutor to anticipate what arguments are being made. however, the timeline is is far too expansive in this respect when it comes to analyzing this case. we're talking about the relevant inquiry that a prosecutor will look at, it's whether there was a justified killing of an unarmed person by not a local law enforcement officer, not anybody deputized, but an everyday citizen executing a citizen's arrest. for that reason, for all intents

and purposes, santa claus could have walked through that construction site. unless it had some relevance to the actualitication between the two individuals, it has no basis. a distraction and a concerted effort to say, hmm, he must have been up to something. this excuses the behavior. this is precisely why, chris, whenever there are questions about people, whether there is suspicion, reasonable about not, you call 911. >> i'm asking that question, not not of arbery. i think they heard about him. there was some kind of community chat board. saying we had a lot of break-ins. no, you didn't. no police reports of break-ins or burglaries. they reported someone broke into their vehicle and took their gun. that's what they say. but there are no string of burglaries in that area, but they thought there was. for them to fly out of the house on the 23rd, i don't believe they knew arbery was in the

house on the 23rd. how would they have known just moments before unless one of these neighbors told them and they haven't come forward and owned it yet. if they saw him and went after him the way they did with the zeal they did, they were up to something. >> and by zeal, of course, you're talking about armed. they have shotguns. >> yeah, and passion to stop him. >> who appears to be totally unarmed. >> to get him to stop. >> and thought they were entitled to do so. >> mm-hmm. >> that's the part about it, it's the hunt, it's the chase and also feeling as though they were entitled to do so. yes, again, there is law in georgia that says you can make a citizen's arrest, but there is criteria that needs to be there, and one of the elements is not whether you used to be in law enforcement. it would be as if somebody who was a retired neurosurgeon said, you know what? i once performed brain surgeries, let me go in right now and you should all welcome me in the hospital again. what you used to be does not add an element that excuses you

having to meet the with criteria. that criteria is you actually had to observe a crime or have immediate knowledge about. knowing about or believing you know about previous incidents of a break-in from a construction site is neither immediate knowledge or firsthand observation -- >> not a felony. >> again, speaking of felonies, chris, if you're talking about the defense of property, which we really are here because fundamentally we're talking about a person, perhaps ahmaud arbery before the 23rd, but ahmaud arbery, according to his family attorney, on the 23rd. if we're talking about him going into a property that did not belong to him then the person i'm most concerned about and whose rights i'm concerned about for the property aspect is larry english. larry english was two hours away, according to your own interview with him and his attorney. so because of that reason, we're talking about the mcmichaels engaging in the defense of property. >> right. >> for you to do that, it had to be your property, your immediate family member's property, that's

not walking around an empty site. >> right. you know who would know that? former cop who is, you know, on the scene, right? now, let me just check something real fast. vaughn, can i use this other 911 call that we have or no? all right. let me play this other 911 call that we have, that we got clearance for, because it's a very different perspective than what we've heard so far. >> hello? >> 911, what's the address of your emergency. >> i'm not here -- satilla shores. it's a black male running down the street. >> where at satilla shores? >> i don't know what street we're on. >> stop! stop! >> sir, hello? sir? sir, where are you at? hello? hello?

>> now, travis is the name that we believe he says in there. so who would have done that in a moment of -- in the law as we learn it -- [ speaking foreign language ] in the heat of that moment would have been the father, greg. now when you hear that in context, damn it. stop, travis. now we know they're going to have a split defense. >> my thought was, number one, he's saying to stop to ahmaud arbery who was running. was he talking to the actual person he was trying to get to stop or was he telling travis mcmichael not to engage in lethal force? and if those three -- we have to figure out what those things are. i'm always curious when people have different lawyers and wondering what their defense is going to be when they do not have a joint self-defense claim there. i wonder if they will try to delineate that. so my immediate concern is, well, if you did -- the question

he said -- what he said to the officer was there was a black man running down the street. i know of no code of any state in this country where that constitutes a misdemeanor, let alone a forceable felony that requires the use of lethal force. >> i'll tell you what, a lot of jokes going around online. african-americans making jokes, too. memes going around. i know who it's not funny to, laura coates, who has men in her life and you worry about this and it's a worry for families all over the country and it's no joke to us. we'll keep following this every step along the way to justice. have a great weekend, my friend. thank you for making us better. >> thank you. i appreciate the time. >> i appreciate laura coates. time with her is time well spent. as with you. thank you for watching. up next, a live cnn special, "the color of covid," d. lemon, van jones, must-see tv. [ siren ] give me your hand!

i can save you... lots of money with liberty mutual! we customize your car insurance so you only pay for what you need! only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪

to have constipation with belly pain, straining, and bloating, again and again. no way. more exercise. more water. and more fiber is the only way to manage it. is it? maybe you think... it's occasional constipation. maybe it's not. it could be a chronic medical condition called ibs-c, and time to say yesss! to linzess. linzess works differently than laxatives. it helps relieve belly pain and lets you have more frequent and complete bowel movements. do not give linzess to children less than six and it should not be given to children six to less than 18, it may harm them. do not take linzess if you have a bowel blockage. get immediate help if you develop unusual or severe stomach pain, especially with bloody or black stools. the most common side effect is diarrhea, sometimes severe. if it's severe, stop taking linzess and call your doctor right away. other side effects include gas, stomach area pain, and swelling. change your thinking to ibs-c.

if your constipation and belly pain keeps coming back, tell your doctor and say yesss! to linzess. feel the coolpowerful 24-hour, claritin cool mnon-drowsy,es. allergy relief plus an immediate cooling sensation for your throat. feel the clarity and live claritin clear.