and good evening, everyone. thanks for joining us on a day that saw the coronavirus death toll pass 90,000 in this country, the president of the united states said today he is taking a drug to prevent coronavirus that the fda warns is dangerous. the drug a familiar one by now. hydroxychloroquine. and, before going any further, i do want to just read directly from the fda's april 24th bulletin on this drug. quote, the fda is aware of reports of serious heart rhythm problems in patients with covid-19 treated with hydroxychloroquine or

chloroquine. additionally, quote, hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine have not been shown to be safe and effective for treating or preventing covid-19. but those first words bear repeating. serious heart rhythm problems. and a study published just days ago in the journal of american medical association showed patients who took the drug, in combination with the antibiotic used in z packs, which the president also touts, were twice as likely to suffer cardiac arrest. that's on top of other studies on the related drug chloroquine alone in which patients have also developed abnormal heart rhythms. the leader of the free world, taking a drug with no apparent benefits for what he is taking it for. could be putting him at risk for serious heart problems, and here's how he explained it today. >> the frontline workers, many, many are taking it. i happen to be taking it. i happen to be taking it.

i'm taking it. hydroxychloroquine. right now, yeah. couple of weeks ago, started taking it. because i think it's good. i've heard a lot of good stories. and, if it's not good, i'll tell you right. i'm not going to get hurt by it. >> did the white house doctor recommend that you take that? is that why you're taking? >> yeah, the white house doctor. no, i asked him what do you think? he said if you like it. i said, yeah, i'd like it. a lot of frontline workers are taking hydroxychloroquine. a lot of -- i don't take it because, hey, people said maybe he owns the company. no, i don't own the company. you know what? i want the people of this nation to feel good. this is a -- a pill that's been used for a long time, for 30, 40, years on the malaria and on lupus, too, and even on argument rit arthritis i guess from what i understand. i was just waiting to see your eyes light up when i announced this.

but i've taken it for about a week and a half now, and i'm still here. i'm still here. >> can you explain, sir, though, what is the evidence that it has a preventative effect? >> here we go. you ready? i get a lot of positive calls about it. the only negative i've heard was the study they gave it -- was at the va, you know, people that aren't big trump fans. >> do you get that? never mind the research showing the dangers. multiple studies. the ones -- the only ones saying negative things about hydroxychloroquine, according to the president, aren't big trump fans and it's that simple. so the journal of american medical association, apparently not big trump fans. the food and drug administration, which is part of the president's, you know, government, not fans, either, apparently. or all the other researchers doing studies on this around the country and the world who are desperate for some sort of treatment that works. and the doctors who stop giving it to the patients, apparently,

they're just not into trump. or perhaps they're simply not into people taking medicine that won't help them, and could seriously hurt them. then again, as he's shown over the past weeks, for whatever reason, the president just cannot seem to stop talking about this, his drug of choice. >> the fda also gave emergency authorization for hydroxychloroquine. we're having some very good things happening with it. it's shown very encouraging, very, very encouraging, early, results. there's some good signs. you've read the science. i've read the science. and i say it. what do you have to lose? i'll say it again. what do you have to lose? take it. if things don't go as planned, it's not going to kill anybody. it will be wonderful. it'll be so beautiful. it'll be a gift from heaven if it works. >> if some other person put it

forward that say, oh, let's go with it. you know, what do you have to lose? try it. if you'd like. >> i've seen things that i sort of like. so what do i know? i'm not a doctor. i'm not a doctor. but i have common sense. >> he has common sense, he says. and he says he's taking drug that's shown not to work, and could be harmful. let's just leave it there. and as we do, just remember this wouldn't be the first time the president has touted unproven and dangerous, potentially deadly, remedies. >> supposing we hit the body with a tremendous, whether it's ult ultraviolet or just very powerful light, and i think you said that hasn't been checked but you're going to test it. and, then, i said supposing you brought the light inside the body, which you can do either through the desiskin or in some other way. and i think you said you're going to test that, too. and, then, i see the disinfectant where it knocks it out in a minute. one minute. and is there a way we can do

something like that? by injection inside or -- or almost a cleaning. >> yeah. there's not. there's not a way to inject disinfectant into a human being. not a good idea. potentially, very grave circumstances. very grave results. could kill people. after those remarks, you may remember, the president's advisers persuaded him not to do any more coronavirus task force briefings which is, again, just a whole other thing. i mean, the idea that we no longer hear, you know, on a daily basis, from the top scientists of the nation working on coronavirus because the people around the president said, you know what, mr. president, you shouldn't do any more, you know, talking in front of people extemporaneously about this because it's, apparently, you know, they thought it was harming him politically. there wasn't a whole lot of talk, though, about how further

lives might be put in jeopardy or even lost. so much for that. more now from cnn's kaitlan collins, who is joining us from the white house. so, kaitlan, what is the white house saying about this claim by the president that he is now taking hydroxychloroquine? >> so far, anderson, they've been quiet. we asked for more details on this. exactly how long the president has been taking it, how long does he expect to be taking it? and we haven't gotten any statements from the press office or the white house medical office, which typically has put out statements on the president's health in the past, like when he's gotten a physical or something like that. and, you know, the thing here is that this is a direct contradiction of the fda's own guidance they issued in april, saying that hydroxychloroquine should not be used outside of a clinical trial or a hospital setting where you can be monitored. they can check your heart rhythm. things of that nature. so there are a lot of questions about, you know, is the president contradicting his own fda here by announcing that he's been taking this for a week and a half now? >> is there any acknowledgment that -- that -- i mean, yeah, no

acknowledg acknowledgment. as you said, his own fda has warned against this drug. assuming he's taking it, i'm wondering is part of him taking it just, you know, him wanting to show that he doesn't listen to, you know, doctors or scientists or sound medical advice. or studies. because he's been touting this so long that, now, he's just being resistant? i mean, it makes -- logically, i just don't understand why he would be taking this. >> well, there is a little period there where he stopped touting it so often. to where we even asked him in the briefing why he had stopped talking about it so much. because, for weeks, he had been pushing it saying this sentiment, you know, what do you have to lose? which is what he said today. and then he kind of went quiet on it after you saw several studies from that journal, va study, the fda guidance talking about how there is no proof that it works or that it helps in any way. and actually, it can be harmful if you do have coronavirus and other underlying health

conditions. but, then -- you know, the president said today he's been taking it about a week and a half. but, anderson, remember, it was about a week and a half ago that two people who work in the white house tested positive for coronavirus. an aide to the vice president and the president's personal valet. so the question is, is that a precaution that the president is now trying to take because of that? even though there's no evidence that we should say that it prevents getting coronavirus. >> yeah. kaitlan collins, appreciate it. perspective now from cnn's chief medical correspondent dr. sanjay gupta. in addition to being a cardiologist, he is also on the coronavirus front lines as founder and director of the scripts research translational institute. doctor, when you heard the president say this today, what did you make of it? >> i actually was stunned. that -- that there's absolutely no data to support the use of

this drug, hydroxychloroquine, for preventive aspects of covid infections. and there is definite risk, as you reviewed. the april 24th fda guidance was based on the fact that there had been serious heart arrhythmias from this drug being used. and, as also noted, there's been a doubling of cardiac arrests in the new york journal last week. so we have all the data to support risk. no data to show benefit. and, here, the president is taking the drug. i think your point about potential defiance, not just defiance of the science and the medical work that's been done to date. but the fact that he's promoted the drug so long and so hard. perhaps, that has something to do with it. >> doctor, i mean, you're a cardiologist. can you just explain the potential heart issues that this drug might cause, if not taken as prescribed? because mentioned the fda's

warned of serious heart rhythm problems. journal of american medical association was concerned with consequences. and i know the va study, that there were a number of cardiac issues, cardiac arrests, with people who were taking this. >> exactly. so the reason why this is a serious matter is that the heart is susceptible to -- during the repolarization phase. that is, after the heart is -- been stimulated to contract. in that phase, there's a interval called qt. and this qt can be prolonged, particularly by hydroxychloroquine. so it's a double whammy. but just hydroxychloroquine can do this. and the important point, anderson, is that it's not something that's just because you have heart disease. it could be a genetic predisposition. it could be because -- because other medications that one's taking. but the key point is you can't predict it. and there is this risk of this

serious heart rhythm. it and it can result in cardiac arrest and death. >> sanjay, i mean, a, how does -- how much does this concern you? and, also, you know, when the president says, well, look, this drug's been around for 30 years. people taking it for, you know, malaria. i think i took it 30 years ago for malaria, and i actually stopped because i didn't -- i didn't like it, as i recall. i was 17 years old tetat the ti. but i mean, how alarming is this? >> there's no evidence that this works. it's very concerning, anderson. and, you know, i think irresponsible. you know, because i think it's sending a very wrong message. it's a message that he has sent before on hydroxychloroquine. the concern, there's no evidence that it works. there is potential harm. this flies in the face of all his own medical organizations, including the fda, which says this medication should not be used outside of a clinical trial

or outside of patients who are hospitalized. there is no evidence that it works, either, for treatment or for prophylaxis, as you mentioned in the lead, anderson. so it just -- it makes no sense and almost to the point where you wonder if something else is going on here that we're missing. like dr. reiner, who worked at the white house before, sort of brought this up. but he said did the president have an exposure that was very significant that we don't know about? and that's why they're very concerned about him. he is in his 70s. he has this evidence of heart disease. if he had a significant exposure, what's going on here? it doesn't make sense. it sends the wrong message to people. >> yeah. sanjay, i just want to go to kaitlan collins. i understand she has some information. >> so, anderson, we just finally got a statement from the president's physician on why he is now taking hydroxychloroquine, and confirming he is indeed taking it. this is from dr. sean connolly, someone he references often. and he says noting our reporting two weeks ago about the president's personal valet

testing positive for y coronavirus, he says since then, the president's continued to receive regular testing and is testing negative. then he says in consultation with our interagency partners and subject-matter experts around the country, continue to monitor the myriad studies investigating potential covid-19 therapies, and i anticipate employing the same shared medical decision-making based on the advice at hand in the future. he says after numerous discussions that he had with the president, anderson, regarding the evidence for and against the use of hydroxychloroquine, quote, we concluded the potential benefit from treatment outweighed the relative risk. now, he is saying that, though the president and, in this letter tonight, he confirms the president does not have any coronavirus symptoms and he is continuing to test negative for coronavirus. so it's not clear, really, what treatment he's talking about that the president needs that would require him taking this medicine. though, clearly, the president made clear earlier, he sees it as a preventative treatment. but this is a statement from the president's doctor, confirming

that, yes, he is taking this drug. that his own fda has warned about taking in a nonclinical setting. >> kaitlan, can you just read the second part? because i was confused by the language there. or i might have missed something. that ended up with, you know, we decided but there was a couple sentences before that. >> yeah. so it's three graphs. it says -- talks about the presidential valet testing positive. in the second graph, it says after numerous discussions he and i had regarding the evidence for and against the use of hydroxychloroquine, we concluded the potential benefit from treatment outweighed the relative risk. so says the potential benefit. it's not clear what hydroxychloroquine is treating for the president, since he does not have coronavirus symptoms and they say he does not have coronavirus because he's continuously tested negative for it. >> sanjay, what do you make of that statement? i mean, the doctor's saying he seems to agree with this, whereas the president sort of

indicated, you know, the doctor said to him, do you want it? the president said yes and the doctor gave it to him. >> that's what it sounds like. i mean, you know, that the -- i don't know that the doctor, the white house doctor, dr. connolly, would have recommended this on his own. you know, he's looking at data. and if you look at the data, there is no data to suggest that you should do this because there's no data to suggest, again, that it works as a prophylaxis, which is what it sounds like here. so someone who's had an exposure and now you're worried am i going to get it? so -- and so there's no evidence it works for that. there is concerning evidence about it possibly being used as a treatment and that you might have these significant side effects. so i don't get it. did the president have a significant exposure? and, now, the white house is trying to do something pro prophylactically? there's just something here that does not make sense. what i can tell you is regardless it flies in the face of all the guidance coming from the government's public health organizations themselves.

it just doesn't fit. >> gloria. i mean, the -- yeah, gloria, go ahead. >> no. i think that's the real question. what, exactly, is the president's exposure here? we know that the vice president's press secretary was exposed, has coronavirus. we know that his valet had coronavirus. clearly, the white house doctors are concerned. this is a president, as we all know, who does not even wear a mask, even though he had exposure. so you can imagine the conversation, i'm sure, where his doctors were concerned. and maybe the president, as he said today, just suggested, well, how can i -- you know, what have i got to lose? how about taking this? and, as dr. reiner pointed out, and remember he was dick cheney's doctor, at the white house, they have all kinds of equipment. there. they monitor the president very closely and i'm sure they monitor him even more closely every day. so if he develops an arrhythmiaer or something, they

can take care of it in a way they could not with any of us if we were to take it. of course, we have no idea. we believe it's not preventative. but the president has all of that surrounding him. >> doctor, just briefly, i mean, if a patient says to you, you know, here, this is great. i got a lot of friends calling me about it. i want it. is -- is it the doctor's -- i mean, what do you do, as the doctor? >> i mean, the responsible doctor would say, no, there's no data to support this. there's a risk that we know of and it's significant. and so, we can't prescribe that. so in a way, that's complicit. and it's really unfortunate because it is, somehow, it promotes the drug, in a reckless way. and, moreover, is this whole commitment to a game changer and all the other things that were being done for many weeks. it really is deeply concerning. >> doctor, i appreciate your expertise. gloria, thanks.

>> reckless. >> yeah. kaitlan collins, thanks, as well. sanjay, stay with us. when we come back, there is breaking news on a vaccine that's showing early promise and we'll be joined by one of the first volunteers who got it. a frequent town hall guest. he joins us. later, house speaker nancy pelosi on her president's prescription, her own party's prescription, for dealing with the economic impact of the pandemic and the president firing the watchdogs he doesn't like even though he claims not to know this one. that, and more, when we continue. ght now, there are over a million walmart associates doing their best to keep our nation going. because despite everything that's changed, one thing hasn't and that's our devotion to you and our communities. our priority will always be to keep you and our associates safe, while making sure you can still get the essentials you need. ♪

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before the president made the announcement today that he is taking ineffective and potentially dangerous drug. our lead story was all about research on a possible vaccine. according to the biotech company moderna, eight trial participants developed antibodies to coronavirus, keeping it from attacking human cells. again, this is from the early and limited first phase of what's anticipated to be a much larger, three-phase study, led by the national institutes of health. that said, experts are encouraged and so is at least one participant in the study. neil browning, i spoke to him just last thursday about how he's been feeling since getting the vaccine. we are always glad to have him back. neil, how'd you learn about the moderna news and what'd you think? >> so, when i woke up this morning, it was like any other regular morning. starting to wake up, get out of bed, get ready. and i'm scrolling through my phone looking at newsfeeds and i

saw where the stock market was up. i figured out that's good news. let's see what's causing it. then, i saw moderna at the top of that and it delved into a press release that they had said they had the initial figures for the first four people in the small and medium-dosage groups that had all produced significant number of antibodies. >> and how does that apply to you? were you in the small to medium group? >> i was the second person in the small group. so, out of the first four people in the small group, that should include me. and it seems like it's a big win for us. not only are we getting the safety precautions out of the way to make sure that it's not having any ill effects on people for -- since it didn't go through any animal trials. but now, it seems like it's actually showing an immune response, which is typically not something looked at until much further in several other phases of the vaccine trial. >> so, when you're in a study like this, in a trial like this, you don't get that information first? i mean, the fact that you

learned about it online is -- is interesting. >> no. they keep that blind. and our data is pretty much anonymized anyway so nobody can track specifically who is doing what. it keeps things honest. keeps things ethical. but they had told us an outside envelope would be about a year when we definitely know something. so i am thrilled and ecstatic that we are knowing this good news so much sooner. >> and what's the next step for you? >> so, i've already had my second dose and my several weeks of followup after that. my next scheduled setup for going back into the research institute for a blood draw is around mid-july. and i'm now in a three h-month cadence where i will go in for a blood draw every three months to verify the antibodies are still in my blood because the important part of a vaccine is s having those precious antibodies

stick around as long as possible. hopefully, we'll see them after a year or so that it gives that much protection to a person. >> i know you didn't tell your family you were doing this really until the last minute. they've got to be really proud of you. or i mean maybe worried for you, too, but really proud. >> they are. they knew that the biggest risk of something going awry would happen within the first week. and after we passed that milestone, everything seemed to be smooth sailing and i'm honestly superlucky that this has gone so well and i've had no ill effects, whatsoever. >> well, we're lucky that you volunteered and that others volunteered as well for this. it's really extraordinary. neal, stay with us. i want to bring back in dr. sanjay gupta. also joining us, michael olsterholm. michael, how significant is this especially based on results participants that were given that low and medium dose? >> i think this is one of those issues where the glass is half

empty and half full. the half-full part is obviously there are antibodies found in terms of laboratory studies. they neutralized the virus. but we got a long ways to go yet. any number of things can go wrong. and takes a lot of things to go right to make this actually become a vaccine that can protect people. but this is, surely, a very, very first good step. >> michael, what makes it so difficult? i mean, what -- you know, from -- from the good news in this, what -- what are the pitfalls here? >> for example, we'll want to show if those antibodies actually protect you against the virus in the everyday life. not just in a laboratory test tube. the second thing is you want to make sure that the vaccine's actually really safe. when you have very limited number of individuals, if you had any exposure to a -- a outcome that was not good, even a rate of 1 per 100, that would not necessarily be picked up here yet. so they'll keep expanding the number of people included in this trial and that is what we need to do.

i think the other important message is there are a number of other trials going on. what's really exciting is we have multiple vaccines being evaluated around the world. and any one of them could hit the jackpot for us and become a critical part of our response to this pandemic. >> and, sanjay,asi understand it, they've now -- they're going to stop doing the higher dose in future tests of this drug because those -- the people who got the higher dose had more side effects. and that the smaller and medium dose seemed to be working so well with those people that they're going to just have everybody get the smaller and medium dose. >> yeah. that's basically it. i mean, the nih came back to moderna, early on, and said, okay, we see you are doing this dose. why don't we, as -- as an effort to sort of accelerate this, try different dosings, early on, even in this phase-one trial. and they went all the way from 25 micrograms to 250. so a tenfold difference. as you know, anderson, because we interviewed somebody who had

the highest dose and there were some side effects. just a couple of days fever, malaise, not feeling well. that sort of thing. but, as you point out, they did see antibody production and antibodies that did seem to neutralize the virus, within -- within the lower doses. so i think that that's -- that's -- you know, they are learning as they go along but i think that's guiding the next steps. >> and, sanjay, i know you had a question for neal. >> i'm curious, neal, now, so put myself in your shoes. do you feel like you're vaccinated? i mean, do you feel like you are not likely to get this virus now? >> i certainly hope so. it definitely, you know, gives me a better sense of calm. being out in the public. but i -- you know, like the doctor said, if we don't know, for sure, if it's been challenged to a human, if it can be as efficient. and if it's still going to provide the same amount of protection. i know that moderna also explained that they did a challenge study just earlier in this last week or so. where they used mice.

and the mice were able to fight off the covid-19 introduced into their respiratory system, without it attaching and mur multiplying. and that they showed the same amount of antibodies as what the people in the study, here, in the first trial, have shown. >> michael, as much as there is, you know, tremendous optimism about this news from moderna. and you said, you know, it's important to look at this in perspective about the road that lies ahead. the -- i mean, how many -- what is the usual timeframe for creating a vaccine? i know this is unprecedented, as you said, there is kind of an unpress department unprecedented global effort. >> one of the things we have to understand and, neal, we all thank you on behalf of the world for what you're doing. is that neal is the ideal candidate to get the vaccine and hopefully have a successful take with it. remember, a lot of the people

that are seriously ill right now are people who are older, who have underlying disease problems, including problems with their immune systems. people who are obese where we have shown, in the past, that vaccines work much less well in that group. so we've got a lot of additional work to do to actually show that this vaccine could protect people like that. and the second thing is that it will actually persist over time. one of the challenges has been with coronavirus infections. will you have durable immunity? meaning, will it last for a few months? will it last for longer than that? anything we can get right now to fight this virus would be great but, ideally, we'd love a vaccine that lasted a long time, that was very safe, and that we had a dose for everybody in the world. right now, we're just a long ways away from that. >> michael, always great to have you on. neal browning, thank you so much again. it's always great to talk to you. and, sanjay, i know you are going to stick around. we're keeping sanjay very busy tonight. just ahead. more on the spread of the virus as people crowd beaches and states continue to reopen, while the new estimates from a model

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pretty surprised, anderson. we were expecting them to probably go up because of the big surge in mobility in the last two-three weeks that we've seen in the cell phone data. but what's really been fascinating is there's not a strong correlation between where mobility's gone up and the trend in cases and deaths. even when we take into account the increase in testing. and our explanation for that is, if you dig a little bit deeper and look into how the fraction of the population in different states that are wearing masks. we think that's really the -- the key difference there. both, their behavior and mask wearing. you know, 40% of the u.s. wears a mask, all the time. about 80% wears a mask sometimes. and that's probably helping separate out that impact of rising mobility from turning into increased transmission all over the country. >> so what is the message, then,

to people? because i -- you know, people hearing this will think, wait a minute, so then -- so it's okay to be close to somebody outside? as long as you're wearing a mask? or it's okay to go to restaurants, as long as you're -- well, not restaurants, you wouldn't be wearing masks. but a barbershop? >> well, you know, that's where, i think, we don't have an exact answer. we know, from the published studies from other viruses, not from covid, but from other respiratory viruses, that wearing a mask can reduce your risk of transmission by about half. and, you know, it depends exactly which context. but, what we -- the only explanation we have for what we're seeing, which is good news, that we haven't had this surge in cases that we were fearing, is that people are being careful. they're keeping their distance. and the mask-wearing data has been a real -- really quite surprising how extensive it is. and we certainly hope it'll keep up because that's one way the public can really protect themselves.

>> sanjay, what do you make of this? >> well, you know, it's -- it's -- it's surprising, obviously, a little bit given the increase in mobility. i will say, you anywaknow, just living in georgia, dr. murray, that the -- the number of people, despite the fact that the state is starting to reopen, there are a lot of people who, even if they're outside, are still maintaining the physical distan distance. and being outside, may be, in fact, you know, beneficial actually as compared to being inside. but, you know, i think the real question is, you know, will these numbers, do you think, bounce around still? i mean, you're trending downward. but, you know, as people go outside, you don't see the number of people testing positive, being hospitalized, or -- or, you know, sadly, dying, until several weeks later. i mean, what do you anticipate the models are going to look like a few weeks from now after you really see the impact of those openings? >> yeah. i think we're really going to

need to watch the next week or two because we sort of expected to see it by now. but, certainly, could be a lagged effect. and i think we may also run into the phenomenon that people may get fatigued, stop being cautious, stop wearing a mask, start having more physical contact. you know, if you look across the states, it really varies. up where they've had bad epidemics, it seems like there is a very high degree of wear masks and being cautious. the states with the lowest levels are actually georgia, swi wisconsin, oklahoma, indiana. and i think we'll be watching those states carefully. especially, the ones where mobility shot up and people aren't being as cautious. that'll be a really early indicator, in the coming week or the coming two weeks, as to where we think this is going. >> and, anderson -- >> sorry, go ahead, sanjay. >> i was just going to say, i mean, i think it's just important to point out, you know, when these pause orders went into place initially, in

mid-march, there were, you know, some -- i think 70 and 80 people, between 70 and 80 people who have died and 4,000 or so people who are infected. now, we're at -- you know, you see the numbers on the screen. you know, 90,000 people who have died. and, now, we're pulling things back. the virus is still the same. the virus is still contagious out there. it just -- it just worries me. like you, i'm glad that the projections have trended downward, over this past projection. but i'm still very worried. i hope people don't take this to say that this is necessarily, definitely trending in the right direction and things are okay. despite the fact that states are reopening. it's just the virus is still out there. >> the virus is out there. >> to me, it -- go ahead. >> i was just going to say. >> no, go ahead, dr. murray. >> depending our extending period we forecast for because we have only been forecasting to august. but it's certainly not gone away. and the risk with the -- in the fall of the return is really

very high. so if we start thinking about the totality of the epidemic, through the course of the whole year, the numbers are going to be much higher than what we're seeing currently. and so that's next up on the agenda is trying to look far into the future. hard to do, but we need to start thinking about the long-term on this virus. >> when you say the risk of the return is high, do you quantify that? i mean, in a percent, like, you know, there's a 70% chance, 40%. i mean, do you -- is that something you do? >> so, we've been trying to think about, you know, what's the best way to think about that risk? and if -- there's two things you can look at. one is flu. and if it -- if covid was like flu, it would be gone by now because we don't really get flu deaths past the middle of march. that's not what's happening. so it may be much more like pneumonia deaths, that sort of go down slower in the summer. and, then, bounce right back in the fall. and so we are going to, when we start to come out, hopefully next week or the week after, with our longer-term forecasts,

that's -- you know, i'm sure we are going to be seeing the risk of substantial mortality through the end of the year. >> dr. murray, i appreciate your time. and -- yeah. no. but -- well, wear a mask. that's -- i mean, again, to me, the headline here. yeah. and keep the social distancing. sanjay, thanks so much. just ahead, house speaker nancy pelosi. her thoughts on the president's claim he's taking hydroxychloroquine, which the white house now said yes, indeed, he is. also, the controversy engulfing secretary of state mike pompeo and the latest inspector general to be fired or removed.

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now, to other breaking news this hour. in addition to comments about taking hydroxychloroquine, president trump also admitted today secretary of state mike pompeo asked him to fire inspector general. who was investigating the secretary regarding allegations that a staffer was being used for personal errands, including dog walking. also, in relation to an $8 billion saudi arms deal, this is

what the president said about the fired inspector general. >> yeah. i don't know him at all. i never even heard of him. but i was asked to, by the state department, by mike. i offered most of my people, almost all of 'em, i said, you know, these are obama appointees, and if you'd like to let them go, i think you should let them go but that's up to you. >> well, this makes five inspectors general the president has fired or removed. this was his explanation to the "washington post." quote, i went to the president and made clear to him that inspector general linick wasn't performing a function in a way that we had tried to get him to. that was additive for the state department, very consistent with what the statute says he is supposed to be doing. the kinds of activities he is supposed to undertake to make us better, to improve us. the secretary did not explain what any of that meant. he denied his decision had anything to do with investigations. and later, i spoke to house speaker nancy pelosi about all of this. we started with the president's

comments about that anti malarial drug hydroxychloroquine. >> madam speaker, what is your reaction to the president saying he is now taking hydroxychloroquine? are you concerned? >> well, first, let me say how happy i am about your new baby. how lovely. wyatt. wyatt, how perfectly named. we all know why that is. and congratulations. and, as you -- as you now are a father, you see how important it is to keep the world safe for the children. for the children. as far as the president is concerned, the -- our -- he's our president. and i would rather he not be taking something that has not been approved by the scientists. especially, in his age group and in his, shall we say, weight group. morbidly obese, they say. so i -- i -- i think it's not a good idea. >> in terms of the state department inspector general's firing, i read your letter you

sent to president trump asking for an explanation. the house foreign affairs chairman is launching, i know, a probe into this. and you said yesterday that the firing looks like it's retaliation. that could be unlawful. what would happen, then? >> well, the fact is, is that the president should acknowledge why we even have inspectors general. this followed watergate. to have transparency, to fight waste, fraud, abuse in our government actions all the while the president is correction in saying he can fire any way he wants. when it comes to inspectors general, he has a responsibility to inform congress first but it is also essential, when he says i have lost my confidence, to tell us why he has lost his confidence. this is the fourth inspector general the president has lost confidence in, so to speak, and it's a pattern, and i think

it is unhealthy for a democracy. >> he has now said publicly, the president, that he doesn't know anything about this person, that he was asked to do this by the secretary of state, and that when he heard that he was appointed by president obama, that seemed to be reason enough for the president. secretary pompeo says he asked for the inspector general to be fired because he quote was undermining the state department and i know in addition to the i.g. investigating whether there were a variety of personal errands to be investigated, pompeo refused to cooperate with the probe with the saudi arms sales which you indicated in your letter. do you have confidence in secretary pompeo right now? >> well, the fact is they declared an emergency almost a year ago as a basis for how they would, why they needed to have the arms sales to the emirates, and to saudi arabia. it wasn't appropriate.

now, right now, they're having another advising us on something that they're giving over $5 million worth of ventilators to russia. russia can very well afford to pay for those ventilators. so they just wheel and deal in a way that is not appropriate and i wouldn't put up with it with a democratic president or a republican president, but that arms sale by declaring a fake emergency in order to just go forward without the accountability and transparency that our government really thrives on, is something that was worthy of attention and, perhaps, and i don't know for sure, i just said in my letter that it has been reported in the press that it was about the saudi arms sale. >> the house has narrowly passed more funding for people, more of a bailout, and i'm wondering, the senate clearly, it's likely to fail in the senate. the president has threatened to veto it.

what is the next step for that? i mean, is this done? >> they're going to come to the table. they must. the american people need this honoring our heroes by allocating the resources to state and local governments. tribal governments and territories. to meet the needs of the american people. the american people want us to open up our economy and we do that by testing, tracing, treatment, and whatever else is necessary in that regard. and then we need to put money in people's pockets. all three of these things have been supported by the republicans. so we wrote a bill that was based on initiatives that they have supported and that we have both supported in a bipartisan way. we do have some areas of disagreement, and those are cause for negotiation, but i don't think there's any question that what this country needs is a robust testing initiative with

a plan, a timetable, benchmarks, milestones, to get the job done that our states and localities are going to have to either raise taxes, cut services, or both, unless they have an infusion of cash for the purpose of countering -- helping to defray the cost of corona already. the coronavirus cost as well as the lost revenue because of corona. and it is, you know, so i have no doubt that they will come to the table. >> speaker pelosi, i appreciate your time. thank you. >> thank you. my pleasure. congratulations, again, on precious wyatt. thank you. up next, we remember some of those whose lives have been lost in the coronavirus pandemic. a new york city emt and a couple married for more than 70 years. we'll be right back.

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tonight, with the death toll in this country passing 90,000, we want to take a moment to remember and honor some of the lives that have been lost due to this virus. richard seaberry, an emt in new york city. he served with the new york city fire department for 30 years and responded to thousands of medical emergencies throughout his career. he was one of the first responders down at the world trade center working to assist with rescue and recovery after the terror attacks of 9/11. richard was known as a kind

soul, a true gentleman. he was dedicated to his job, his crew and to the people of new york who he helped for so long. he leaves behind a wife and two daughters. richard seaberry was 63 years old. mary kepler and husband, wilford, were married for 70 years. extraordinary. they went to the same high school in wisconsin. he was drafted and sent overseas to fight in world war ii. that's what he did. after he returned, he and mary started dating. they were married in 1946. for 73 years they lived side by side. three kids. eight grandchildren. six great-grandchildren. mary and wilford came down with coronavirus in april. because they were both positive, they were able to stay in the same hospital room, which was a blessing, with their beds pushed together. they were so thankful they could be together, as they were in life. 73 years of marriage. think about it. after a lifetime together, they died within six hours of each other. the family says in their fin