that's all you need to know about this president. forget the rest of the noise about what he's taking or what he's doing. history will remember his as the story of inaction. inaction on masks, testing, tracing. and i hope now you know why. he sees it all as bad because he just wants to reopen, regardless of the risks because he thinks it would be better for him. he does not care what happens to the rest of us apparently. so, tonight, i have no interest in what he's saying or not doing. i want the best ideas on what you and i should do for our families. how to handle work situations, school, barbecues, trips, pools, parks because change is coming ready or not. so let's do what the white house won't. let's figure out the best way to protect ourselves, together as ever as one. let's get after it. look, it's too easy a case

to make. it's a quick reality check. despite america not having the largest population in the world, right, we know that, we do have more covid cases than anywhere else. this is bad, period, except in the mind of one man, the guy who thinks magic pills and disappearing viruses are real. >> when we have a lot of cases, i don't look at that as a bad thing. i look at that in a certain respect as being a good thing because it means our testing is much better. so, if we were testing a million people instead of 14 million people, we would have far fewer ca cases, right? so, i view it as a badge of honor. really it's a badge of honor. >> first of all, badge of honor, he would have wanted to test sooner. let's take his number. the president says we've done 14 million tests. the covid tracking project puts it at about 12 million. but let's give it to trump,

assume 14. still, the math that matters here is how many tests you do per capita, per person. why? because if you don't do it per population, you're not going to know how much penetration you're getting into that society. it's not about the raw number of tests. so, the real metric is that we've done about one test for every 28 -- no, we've done 28 tests for every 1,000 of us. 28 tests per 1,000 people, okay? so, if that's the metric, an aggregation of data from last week shows that more than 30 countries rank higher than we do in per capita testing. that's apples to apples. now, you take away some. we suck on this all-important metric because we started late after the virus started to spread in communities. remember trump did not make testing a priority. he was too busy calling covid a

hoax, blaming it on democrats, and telling us all it would go away after a dozen cases. also almost every other country -- and this probably matters most, at least to me, tell me your thoughts. almost every other country that has shown progress here has made testing and tratsing their organizing principle that drives reopening, because facts -- for some, magical thinking isn't enough. but i will repeat the part that you have to remember here. our president doesn't like testing or tracing or masks for basically one bad reason. they may make people less pumped to reopen wrecklessly. this is the only -- there's one thing i want you to hear from him tonight, and it says everything you need to know. >> when you test, you have a case. when you test, you find something is wrong with people.

>> when you test, you find a case, you find out something is wrong with people. finding out who is sick and who is not is not wrong. it is information that helps us make decisions that are right. again, please remember this. this is your brain on trump. >> when you test, you have a case. when you test, you find something is wrong with people. >> that's all you need to know about how he thinks about this. more cases, wrong. wearing masks, no. taking pill that even state news admits may kill someone like him, that's the right thing to do. dr. sanjay gupta is here. there's no cure for what's ailing that kind of thinking, so i'll keep you out of that. and let's deal with some of the big components of where we are right now and how we have to

understand it. first, the cdc just put out the rest of their guidelines. there have been a lot of drama about this. people in the cdc saying they were silenced. then they put out what i thought was kind of a secondary flowchart system of what to do and not. it really seemed like the "for dummies" version of how to handle this. now about 60 pages of what was 68 pages, more detailed assessments of how to deal with restaurants and stuff reopening. it seemed to be slipped out there. there's no fanfare. but what do you make of the release? >> yeah, that's exactly right. this should be a much bigger deal. this is real life as you were just talking about in your opening, chris, about how to navigate your life forward, the real decisions people are making about should i get on a plane, am i going to do summer vacation, send the kids to summer camp? whatever it may be. am i going to go out to eat at a restaurant? all these things are the things that the cdc is expert at

understanding the virus and real life situations. nick valencia said the question of religious gathering which was in the original 68-page document not in the flow sheet you just recommended is also not in the now 60-page document. for whatever reason, chris, that is still taken out of there. but you do have some real data. i think we're going to go through it and figure out what exactly this means for people trying to navigate some of these decisions. i'm surprised, you know, that this isn't getting more attention. i think there's going to be some -- a lot of it's going to look familiar because of the gaiting criteria, saying states should have 14-day downward trend, plenty of testing in place, things we've heard. but you get the sense from this document that it's leaving it up more to the discretion of governors now as opposed to being a national cohesive strategy. so, they don't want this oget a lot of attention clearly, chris. >> a study came out about secondary infection rates. it's kind of complicated.

i read through a summary of it. i didn't really get it. what matters about this study? >> i think the thing that matters the most, first of all leave aside whether or not people are reinfected for a second. one of the things they really wanted to know was were they still contagious? could they still spread this? they looked at these people who tested positive again, developed symptoms again, tested positive, and found none of their close contacts contracted the virus. so, even if they are still having these viral particles that's causing their tests to come back positive, it does not appear to make them contagious which is really good news. i mean the idea that first of all someone could retest positive i think is still an open question. but if they could test positive and also spread it, chris, that would be a huge problem in terms of trying to contain this. >> right. >> i'll tell you, i'll go out on a limb. you and i have talked about this

and i think you agree with me on this. the idea that once you're exposed to the virus you do develop antibodies for some time. you know that yourself because you've donated the antibodies. i think there's a period of time where you are protected. that's just the way it typically works. it would be hard to believe this is behaving completely different and people have no infection after they've been infected. we don't know how long the protection is. we don't know how strong. with sars, people had antibodies for months, even years after their infection which would be a very positive thing here. if people get infected and they have that protection for a period of time, that is how you start to getting to more broad based immunity. >> i know the clinicians in my life told me if people say they wanted to get tested but they're not showing any symptoms, tell them to get an antibody test if they access to it which again is another issue. but because you're better off knowing that. if you don't have any symptoms, you're better off knowing if you

have the antibodies than if you have covid because if you do have covid, do you have enough virus in the system to be contagious or just to get picked up on the test? it gets confusing. let me is ask you about something else, sanjay. as of tuesday, at least 17 sfats have recorded a clear upward trend of average new daily cases. it's a rise of about at least 10% over the past seven days. this is based on analysis of data from johns hopkins. how concerning is this in this context? we don't know that this is about reopening because most of these states that were going up, that we're seeing the increases in, they were increasing already before really, right? >> that's right. that's right. they did not follow, again, the gaiting criteria that we talked about earlier. so, i don't think any of the states have actually met that criteria in term of both having a documented 14-day downward trend and the availability of robust testing to quickly

identify people who are newly infected. chris, i think that it's tough to know what to make of this data. reasons why. i think we're following this day to day which is understandable. but i think we're going to have to widen the aperture a little bit in terms of how we look at these numbers and look at them really week to week and even over a month. you know, people know now between the time that someone might get exposed, the time they might develop symptoms, the time they might get a test, the time they might get hospitalized, if they sadly die, how long that takes. my point is there's a long period of period of in between here so i don't think we really know what's going on. we've seen a little bit of what happened in texas as they opened the numbers jumped up. it could have been more people were tested that day. it's tough to read into this data on a day to day, even over a couple of week time period. i think we have to look at this over several weeks. i also think that even though states are reopening, chris, i think one of the things that

comes out of this model is how are people behaving still even if they're reopened? a, are people going out as much even if it's open? some people choose not to still. and if they do go out, just simply wearing masks according to chris murray, the author of these projections, makes a huge difference they said. they expected the numbers to be higher. they revised the numbers down despite states opening. why? mainly because he said people were wearing masks more than they expected and the masks were having more of an impact than they realized. there's a piece of good news or actionable news for people who go out. wear your mask. a lot of people are doing it. it does seem to make a difference. >> why am i laughing? a lot of people are doing it. that's what they base their model on in terms of the downward projection and the president won't wear a mask. i mean, how do we expect people in this country to really take it seriously when doing so means they have to basically believe their president is an idiot?

>> you know, this worries me. i know it's -- i'm not trying to hammer this point, but obviously the president is worried about an exposure that he had in the white house. i think that's why he started taking this medication, right? sounds like there was a significant exposure. >> and he has people tested all the time and he's doing deep tracing on the people who get it. all the things he doesn't want to do on a national level. so, he's worried. >> correct. he's worried and he's worried about himself which is why he is taking this medication now, a medication that has no proven benefit in terms of preventing the infection, yet he's worried enough about it from his exposure that he's taking a medicine. but if he has the virus in his body, he also knows that he could be then spreading it. that's why you wear the mask, to decrease the spread. so, he's worried enough about him having it that he'll take a medication that's potentially harmful, has no proven benefit, but not wear a mask to decrease the spread. >> mask as a metaphor, sanjay. not everybody's like you.

you will do things for other people no matter the level of personal sacrifice. there are other people in this country, like our president, who focuses on what is good for him. hydroxychloroquine or whatever it's called is good for him because it fuels the narrative that nobody else knows what they're talking about. ignoring testing and tracing and reopening wrecklessly is good for him because it hopefully will get economic energy going and the risk to blame on someone else. wearing a mask is about everybody else, not his focus, but it is your dr. sanjay gupta, and that is why some will call you a national treasure. you are the best. thank you, my friend. >> that means a lot from you, chris. >> are you kidding me? i wouldn't be here without you. if you hadn't kept my head steady, i would still be in the basement. i love you and thank you. this is the reality, whether or not we're going to reopen. all right. but this is not going to be a summer like ones we used to

know. or at least let's put it this way now. you shouldn't have a summer like the ones we used to know. we have to be smarter even in our leadership sometimes. we have to be as safe as we possibly can. now, what's the hard question? how? yeah, i get it, cuomo. we need to be safe. how? how do i do these things? you're right. that's why i brought in a better mind. we have somebody who has taken the time to figure out what are the safest routes to doing a t lo of the options that we'll have this summer and some of the things that won't be an option? next. with unlimited from metro and the new iphone se... ...gabriel rules. he's working hard to make sure a family tradition stays a tradition. get the brand-new iphone se for less than a hundred bucks

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all right. memorial day is literally right at the end of the week, okay? so, what do we do? we'll start with the things that we want to do, okay?

the infectious diseases society of america warned today there is no real playbook for how to handle the omgptions we're goin to have. so, we had to ask somebody to help us think it through from a clinical perspective. she's the chief health officer at the university of michigan. doctor, in terms of figuring out why we have to figure this out for ourselves, we don't have to look any further than the cdc just slipping out the extended package of procedures and guidelines without any fanfare for the government. this is clearly not their priority. >> yes, summer is a special time, and i think a lot of us are looking forward to it, particularly when you live in a northern climate. and summer's going to be a little bit different this year, and we're hoping it's also a chance to set us up for success for fall reopening. >> so, let's look at these things. we'll put it up on the screen for people.

just kind of different baskets of things that come up. concerts and festivals. do we think that will be in places that reopen, do you think that is a possibility, and if so, is it a maybe or a no way? >> so, concerts and festivals where people are actually going to physically be present are a no way in my mind at this point in most areas. it's just a little too early to have that kind of gathering. and unless you can do it in a way where you have really good social distancing and very little density i would not count on concerts and festivals this summer. >> so, not taking on burning man this summer. is that what you're trying to say? >> that's right. >> amusement and theme parks. so big for families. >> yeah, amusement parks and theme parks are also complicated. they're a place people travel long ways. so, you can have international travellers which can create problems in this case. and also just the crowds, the lines and everything.

so, my sense is that amusement parks are going to have a little bit of difficulty opening. but case by case, there may be situations. i read about something where the safari park at a zoo where they just had families drive through with their own cars, there may be some small settings like that. but as a whole, i wouldn't expect to see traditional large amusement parks opened at the scale they're usually opened. >> so, the other things on the list, they call iend of fall into the same baskets, sports events, parades, anything where you have masses of humanity, you think it's going to be the same bucket of restrictions. are any of those more or better choices than any other? >> you know, not really. again, unless you can really limit the number of people and you can have social distancing involved or maybe do it a bit virtually, sports has been interesting because there's been some discussion about having no spectators or having, you know, players play within leagues. i haven't seen that move forward

and it's complicated to make it move forward. >> all right. that's the big ticket entertainment. let's look at microentertainment. you get invited to a barbecue. what are the questions to ask yourself? >> who's coming, where is it, how many people? again, i think picnics and barbecues, they're part of summertime, but they're going to be limited more to house hold or controlled group of people that you are part of a community. i think people are going to entertain at home a little more than being out and about. but, you know, within small groups, especially if you can make sure everyone is staying healthy and everyone is taking care to not come sick and they're masking. practicing those basic things would go a long way. >> and there is no magic number where six or less you're good or 16 or less you're good. so, it's going to have to be common sense. in terms of how you party, the idea of hey, stay away from a

punch bowl because you don't want somebody who's had a couple too many and sticking their hand in their with their cup, individual drinks, throw away plates and utensils so you don't have to worry about risks of washing, are those practical concerns? >> absolutely, but those are simple things we can all do. it's maybe not great for the environment but just making sure we're not sharing too many things, that it's maybe a little bit less pot luck. if there are a couple of families coming together, maybe everyone bring their own food. maybe eat ahead of time and just share your company instead of food. >> hm. how about masks at social events? >> yeah, so masks at social events are something that i would recommend and i think it's going to be part of what we're going to see. we're going to see it now, and we're probably going to see it in the fall as schools and universities think about coming back also. and again, outdoors, the ritzsks a little bit less and particularly if you're on your

own or maybe one other person. in any kind of enclosed space, i feel like wearing the mask is a respectful thing. it's saying i care about the people around me, and it's something i would recommend. it doesn't excuse you if you are ill to come into that situation. that's going to be something we need to train ourselves to do. >> kids, you're going to encourage them to be outside. we do that anyway because let's be honest they're probably not watching the show right now. i know my aren't. we want them outside anyway if we could get them there and to encourage games where it's not like pile on top of one another. it's more like not tag, figure out games for kids where they can keep a little distance. what do you do when they're throwing something to one another? >> i'm okay with them throwing something to one another, but they do need to practice good hand hygiene. and training them not to touch their face, not to touch their eyes, their nose, but they're kids. and i think they should get out there. you can decrease risk. you can't completely eliminate

it. and frankly there's a risk to not being outside in my mind. >> gotcha. one thing that's changed with our thinking, and masks, it's changed. you don't need them, leave them alone, give them to health care workers, you'll touch your face when you put them on. now we're more pro-mask. things evolve. surfaces. i have stains all over my house from using harsh cleaners because we thought that's the way we get it. now we're not as worried about surfaces. we're worried about being in closer contact for longer duration. is that something for peoples' heads? >> yeah, i would agree with that. chris, by the way, i'm glad you're feeling better and i'm sure you've spent time cleaning your house. the role of surfaces is a little bit complicated and the environment does play a role. to some extent it's been overemphasized from the usual respiratory route. that's the thing, making sure we're not breathing on each other, coughing on each other,

sharing too many secretions, sharing cups. they go hand in hand. the emphasis on the cleaning and disinfection, it's important but not the only thing. >> okay. how about this one? pools. you know, from caddie shack, we have a pool and a pond. is pool okay because chlorine is in the pool and chlorine will kill the virus? but what if it's a salt pool? how much chlorine? you know, what are the rules? >> yeah, so pools and for that matter beaches and swimming tends to be low risk. the problem is it's everything else that's happening outside the pool. and in the case of large public pools, it's the crowding. it's the sitting on the deck. it's the people lining up. and in my city in an arbor we got a notice the city isn't going to open the pools this summer. i think we'll see more of that. private pools are going to open. whether they can pull it off, it's not the swimming that's the issue. it's everything that happens

outside the pool that's the issue. standard pool chemicals should take care of coronavirus. >> and chlorine you think kills the virus? do we know? >> i do believe it does. that's everything i've read. >> okay. >> suggests that it does. >> what do you do in the pool? i like to drown my best friend in the pool just as a show of dominance. i should give him a pass this summer? >> i think he deserves a pass for sure. >> he certainly does not deserve a pass, but i'll give him one. we watched beaches open this weekend. and i was shocked that anybody thought people would go on to the beach, immediately run into the water, swim, and run home and not stay on the sand in california. of course on saturday when it was nicer we saw exactly what people are going to do on the beach. if you are taking to the beach or hanging out around a lake or on the side of the river, what's the best way to do it for the familia fam? >> i would say go to places where there are not a lot of people.

that's going to vary depending on where you live. some of the beaches have closed off their parking lot. they've done their best to socially distance. they've drawn circles in the sand. but this is going to come down to everyone trying to be smart and trying to be responsible so we don't hurt other people. >> what about family trips? is the emphasis this year that if you're going to get away, really get away. go into a place where you can be camping on your own or hiking on your own? what's the guidance? >> the guidance is going to vary, chris, from place to place. a lot of states have restrictions. my state, michigan, there's restrictions on travel in most of the state. my sense is that people are going to be traveling closer to home. that said, there is some essential travel people have to do. they've been away from their family, they have older family members they have to visit. i think you just have to plan it and take the risk. you can decrease risk. you can't eliminate it. my sense is a lot of people are

going to be taking shorter road trips, staying in smaller places with their house hold unit and limit how much they're out and about. >> it's going to be very interesting time because the options are going to be there, doc. the idea that people won't do it when it's happening in their circles and their communities i think it's a little too much social pressure and people have really had it. we're seeing an acceleration of frustration. thank you so much for kind of understanding this new safety state of mind we have to be in. now, we'll keep -- as the new options come up in society, you'll come back, doc, please, and let's go through the different permutations of thought on each new set of option. thank you very much, the best for you and your family. thank you for the kind word. >> thank you. now other things. noul we're having a good time. about college. okay. what are we going to do now? different schools are telling us different things. okay. there is new modeling that could help us plan for university life in the fall. how do we educate students

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we're going to have tough choices to make in this pandemic, okay? just because things are reopening doesn't mean life gets easier. colleges and universities are starting to lay out their plans to reopen in the fall if they choose to do so at all. so, this study came out from cornell university, and it has some models that are a little scary but also may show us what can and cannot work. let's bring in dr. william schaffner. it's good to have you, doc. >> hi, chris, good to be with you. >> the main headline of the cornell study is that even though a small percentage of

students in pairs take the same course, pretty much like 60% of them, 6 out of 10, are going to reach each other within two steps. you start to get these multiplier effects of kids that are just going to find more and more ways to be in contact just through course load, let alone socializing. so, what do we do in term of sending our kids back to school, college? >> yes, that's a big question, isn't it? and every school is wrestling with that question as we go on. my own school is also. it has a number of task forces looking at all of these issues. and what that study told us is something in a very formal way is something that we already knew. a college is a semienclosed community with a lot of close interaction, all the way from dormitory living, if it's a residential school, to all of those classes, to all of that extracurricular work. and they're all together. they mix rather freely, and there's a great deal of

closeness, which of course is the sort of environment that our friend, the coronavirus, really enjoys. so, there's a lot of concern about how what would be the new normal on campus if the campus decides to open? >> right. and one of the shortcuts we've seen is we'll keep it divided by major. so, you have smaller groups. problem with that is anybody who's been to college, electives. you take these courses outside your major. what are you going to do say you can't do those anymore? cornell does wine tasting and stuff that everybody wants to be a part of for obvious reasons. even though it's not your major, you're mixing with all these other kids, 500 plus in the class or whatever it is. what does it tell us about how to do university life safely? does it tell us you can't or is there a certain risk assessment? >> remember we can't do it safely. we can mitigate risk. what we tried to do is reduce the risk as low as we can.

and we look at everything. some of the things we're thinking of, for example, is asking students to be on the honor system, not to go any -- to shelter at home, not to go to any large party so when they come to us maybe we'll test them all. and what sort of testing scheme will we have? what do we do in the dormitories, for example? could we have no singles? oh but what do we do with the kid who is used to double up? and where do we put them? we looked at bathrooms. could we disable some of the sinks and shower stalls, for example, to promote social distancing? and then we decided oops, the number of sinks and showers stalls actually are so small that we're kind of cramped already. we can't -- we can't reduce them further. could large lecture halls have the students spread out and some of the them take the courses virtually rather than in person?

it goes on and on. extracurricular activities, the newspaper, the chess club, oh, did i mention athletics? intramural as well as intercollegiate. i think in some sports, as i recall, football, close contact is part of the sport? how do we deal with that? we're not all, as i was, a cross country runner. that's a little bit easier. but the challenges are endless and everybody's working on how to mitigate the risk. are we all going to go around wearing masks? it may be encouraged. should it be obligatory? you name it, there's a challenge. >> better not make it obligatory. otherwise the president will be able to visit any college campuses. the idea is -- the answer is in how you're phrasing the questions. how do we mitigate risks. that assumes this is going to happen. do you believe we see that in the fall, that going to college, going to school is too

impractical to do remotely for major universities and institutions, you're going to see on-campus life in some form modified or not? >> well, at the present time we've already seen some announcements from some schools at the extremities. yes, we're opening up and we're going to be as close to normal as possible. nope, we're not opening up for the first semester. we're going to see how things go. i anticipate because our society is opening up that by the fall there will be a general opening up. and every school will be coping with how to do that in a coherent fashion. i can tell you there will be a lot of student, faculty, and staff education about social distancing and the norms that are expected. they may not always be enforced. there are always some rascals who avoid them. but i think we can get a great deal of compliance. >> now, we're only talking about the students.

you have thousands and thousands of teaching staff and people who run the institution itself. what about for them? because that's going to be an extension of the new workplace, right? certain people are going to have to show up at physical plants. they're going to have to be in offices. not everyone can work remotely. what does that mean? >> well, that's exactly right and we're thinking about that very carefully. and on top of that, just to make it a little more nuanced, there will be senior people and indeed students who have chronic underlying illnesses. diabetes, for example, and other chronic illnesses. can we make modifications to further reduce their risk? everything is still up for discussion, but time is moving on. and pretty soon, all of us and all of these schools are going to have to decide that. and mind you, what we say has implications for all the

communities in which these schools occur because there's a whole array of economic activity in those communities that depends on these colleges and universities. and that's also a consideration to be quite frank. >> one of the options that i was talking about with izzy, the e perks of the show earlier this afternoon was an earlier schedule where they go back during the summer so they're not as exposed to flu season and stuff and maybe around thanksgiving they come home and stay until after january. a lot of these things are not going to be well-met but we're going to have to pick our priorities and figure out how to best mitigate risk. dr. schaffner, always a plus. thank you for the value added. >> my pleasure. all right. so, we're headed into memorial day. as we all know that is the time that we think about the sacrifice of those who gave their lives in times of war and strife to this country.

did you know that we should be acutely grieving the loss of more than 1,000 people in the v.a. health system because of coronavirus? did you know that that's how high the number is? do you know why? because we really don't know the real number. there may be hundreds more veterans who have died who couldn't get into the va facility, who were in state-run facilities, who weren't counted in either place. what the hell are we doing to the people that are supposed to matter the most? when is the last time you heard from the va secretary by the way? we have an advocate, friend of mine and of show, he'll tell you what's going on in that community and what isn't. next.

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i don't have to tell you what memorial day or decoration day is about. we honor our fallen, the people

who put sacrifice first in their lives in our armed forces for the betterment of the rest of us. but the va now reports over 1,000 people having died of coronavirus among those who have gotten some type of care from its facilities. but here's the problem. we are letting down the people who are supposed to matter most once again, okay? why? they are a by percentage older group than you may suspect. there are many of them that are vulnerable, especially to something like coronavirus, okay? many of them when they get older are in homes where there's density, where they are really vulnerable, okay? the estimates are that they don't have any idea -- that's the presumption -- of how many dead there are. there are states that aren't even counting the dead among the veterans because they think somebody else is going to do it. for more detail on just how screwed up this is, i asked p.j. rye cough to come on.

he's a veteran's advocate. he's the most of the angry americans podcast. p.j., as always, thank you for your service to the country. i love you, brother. i love your family. thank you for making me remember what's going on with the veterans. you send me notes all the time, where's wilkie, where's the secretary of the va, why isn't he giving us information information and you're right. what do you understand the situation to be? >> the situation is very tough for the veterans community. they're at high risk, in dangerous positions, and they're dying. when we reflect on people lost in combat we have to stop to realize if we're losing veterans every day in combat with the virus. you mentioned the va reported a thousand are dead but that's only the veterans that are dying inside vo hospitals. veterans that are dying at home, in civilian hospitals, on the

streets because they're homeless, they're not counted n. holy oak, massachusetts, 88 veterans have died in one facility. where is the va secretary wilkie? where is the president? if we say we stand behind our men and women, how did we let 88 die in one facility? it's not just there. it's stonemy brook new york, alabama, louisiana, these state-run hospitals across the country are getting decimated. >> what is the chance they have a good answer, it's like that everywhere, we're not doing worse with the veterans than any other population. they're getting as much as as everybody else. it's just a tough problem. is that a legit answer? >> no. absolutely not. it's not what america stands for. if we care about the people on the front lines, we have to show it now. think about the family members that can't see their family members. they can't get answers. they

he says he supports the veterans he says he loves our veterans but where is he? he's been invisible. this cuts to the core of who we are, chris. you mentioned it. more than half of the vets at va over 65. many of them have pre-existing conditions. many of them have respiratory issues. vietnam veterans have been exposed to agent orange and other issues. they're high risk. they can also be the cavalry. they can help here and step into the fray, but we got to have their back, especially going into memorial day. >> secretary wilkie was pushed to talk about the holyoke situation. here's what he said. >> the law prohibits us from taking direct control over those nursing homes. we take complaints when we hear complaints. we cannot impose our will on those state venues. >> it's not on him. >> yeah, it's on him. he is supposed to be the veterans' advocate for the entire country, not just the ones that he thinks he's responsible for and the president should be responsible, too. he's the commander in chief. when we're in the military we say leave no man behind, leave

no woman behind. we don't say, well, there is bureaucratic stuff in the middle and that's why i can't save my buddy. he should be moving every mountain he can, deploying every resource he can and getting on the ground there himself to find out what's going on and get ahead of the curve, find out where the next outbreak is going to be, where the next hospitals that are going to be hit. it's an ultimate abdication of responsibility. it's unacceptable. and he should be ashamed of an answer like that. >> the c.a.r.e.s. act included $17.2 billion for the veterans health administration. the va touted it's spending money towards homelessness, telehealth, state veterans homes. what have you been hearing about the reality of how the c.a.r.e.s. act is delivering for our veterans? >> well, they need it. i mean, they need every bit of reinforcement they can get right now. in the latest emergency supplemental, va got about $20 billion. it's important to note, chris, secretary wilkie said he didn't need it. he said he didn't need additional funding. he testified before congress. he said he had no problem with hiring and staffing when they

had tens of thousands of openings. nurses were protesting in new jersey and atlanta saying they didn't have enough ppe. and he said he had enough ppe. and then last week he took a donation of 500,000 masks from south korea. if he has enough masks, he has enough ppe, why are we taking donations from south korea? i think there is a real disconnect between the reality on the ground and what the secretary is pushing. he seems to be standing with the politics of the president instead of the reality of our veterans. >> pj rieckhoff, listen, it's so important to keep our focus on it. it shocks me every time. it breaks my heart how easily we forget the people that we love to say matter the most to us. you are one of those people, pj, and i tell you what, you make me proud to be a citizen in this country because you take your responsibility so importantly. one thing, do you know what kind of car that is you're standing in front of or do you just want to be cool? >> first off, love you back. appreciate your leadership. of course i know what kind of car. '69 camaro ss, 360 four on the floor.

and i think americans have had enough of potted plants and bookcases. now you can have an american-made camaro in my garage. >> i did not think you could be more macho than you were already. -- >> when the pandemic's over, man, me and you can get in it and ride through times square together and give your brother a high five. >> we'll have our masks on. we'll need them to avoid the 5-0, the popo. p.j., thank you very much, brother. be well. i'll talk to you this weekend. >> thank you, brother. appreciate you back. >> i mean, look, he's always fighting for the brothers and sisters that put their lives on the line for this country. and we have to pay more attention to them. there is just no excuse for us to treat them the worst when they've given us the most. all right. coming up, ameri-can, small remote grocery store. how do they keep themselves from going hungry there? you won't believe the efforts of one ameri-can. next. a bath fitter bath is installed quickly, safely, and beautifully, with a lifetime warranty. the beautiful bath you've always wanted, done right, installed by one expert technician all in one day.

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all right. we have ameri-cans and there is something ameri-can't we have to discuss. but first the good. john lynch of new jersey lost his father last month from natural causes. he had to say good-bye over facetime like so many families have to do now. it's one of the ugliest parts of the tragedy. but the loss inspired him to give. he launched operation connection. the ipad project. he's gotten dozens of tablets donated for hospitals and nursing homes across three states so loved ones at least can be digitally face-to-face, be online and say good-bye to the people they love the most. a beautiful gesture of somebody who knows the pain of not being able to say good-bye. another ameri-can, toshua parker. he owns a small grocery store in a remote part of alaska only reachable by boat or plane, okay? his store is the only one in town. deliveries were cut off. what are they going to do?

parker and his staff started making 14-hour boat trips to juneau. 50 miles away. to get supplies from costco. now, that is customer service. he is an ameri-can, all right? now, the ameri-cans bring us together. we need it more than ever. that's why i have to make an ameri-can't out of a situation, all right? i'm not even going to ascribe blame in this. the tradition of first-term presidents inviting their predecessors to the white house to unveil their official portrait, all right, it's always happened, even when they don't like each other, even when the parties are at odds. we need that right now. it should be happening right now. trump doesn't want to do it. obama saying, hey, thanks but no thanks, i'm fine with you not doing it. an administration official says there have been talks between the white house and obama's team for a ceremony. but we know how hard they are to believe. nothing's been set. obama's camp reportedly said the former president isn't interested so long as trump is in office. look, here's what i'm saying. yes, trump is the sitting president, he's supposed to be

the bigger person, he's supposed to make it happen. i'm just saying right now this is the last type of thing we need to see. all right? but don't take it from me. i thank you for watching and i deliver you to one of my many betters, d. lemon, starting right now. >> come on. >> what do you think? >> i wouldn't want to go to that white house if i was obama. come on. let's be real. his -- obama never treated his predecessor the way this -- this president is treating obama. accusing him of crimes and all kinds of names. yes, there's decorum and all of that, but this is -- this is unprecedented. this president is -- the way he treats people, the way he goes after people, the names he calls, why would you want to put yourself in that situation? >> to show the country that we are still bigger than our grievances. >> to show the