is the president concerned about democracy or defeat? i'm michael smerconish in philadelphia. all right. imagine it's election night, november 3rd, 2020. you're tuned into cnn. and it's very late. maybe even into the next morning. wolf blitzer has just called another state, tosses to john king in front of his magic wall. king with that incyclopedic command of the electoral map gives the very latest breakdown which shows that president trump has a slightly based on votes cast in person. king then throws it back to anderson cooper who has an

announcement that the race is too close to call. and will remain so for days, due to the unprecedented receipt of mail-in or absentee ballots in several swing states, including michigan and pennsylvania. and then a week later, when all of the votes have been counted, trump's lead has vanished. and joe biden is declared the winner. here's my question, would that outcome be accepted by partisans who have been conditioned for months to equate mail-in voting with voter fraud? after all, just this past week, president trump threatened to withhold aid from michigan and nevada because of alleged illegal activity related to absentee ballots. and on thursday night, he was quick to assert, quote, fraud, when embracing a laura ingraham tweet that cared grocery shopping to voting. in march, the president said efforts to expand voting would guarantee, vote, you'd never

have a republican elected again. but his antipathy is not data driven. data from mail either of those states don't show either party benefitting. ready from reed guttman, a recent survey looked at county level implementation of vote by mail of california, utah and washington, they found no statistically different partisan difference, between counties that had transitioned to voting fully by mail and those who had not. along with a slight increase in voter turnout. another research team recently analyzed the effects of voting by mail in colorado, and although they found a much higher result of turnout in previous studies they also had a similar nonpartisan finding. more voters turned out to

support more democratic candidates but also republic dan candidates. is it a concern for democracy or concern over defeat? my next guest can lead a conference, ad hoc committee, of legal scholars to study the fairness and legitimacy of the coming election and to make recommendations to protect the sanctity of the vote. those recommendations included that, quote, states should adapt reforms to improve the absentee ballot and provisional ballot processes both in terms of the access and safety. plus there were terms for the media. it's especially important for the media to convey to the public the idea that given an expected increase in absentee ballot voting in the november 2020 elections delays in election reporting are to be expected. not evidence of fraud. and that the 2020 presidential election may be too early to call until days after the election. richard hassan is the

chancellor's professor of law of political science at you airvin. he's the author of "election meltdown." okay, professor, you know this subject well. we have five states that are entirely by mail. what is the record of fraud in those states? >> the record of fraud in those states is quite low. and also all over the united states, the record is that election fraud is rare. it does occasionally happen with absentee ballots, but if you look at the scale of voting by mail, it's very, very small. >> what about the shenanigans i keep hearing bandied about that took place in north carolina's 9th congressional district? >> right. even though it's rare, it's not nonexistent. what happened in 2018 is that an operative working pro-republican congressional candidate allegedly went around, collected absentee ballots against north carolina law and either tampered

with them by changing votes or destroyed ballots. it was so bad that the bipartisan state board of elections decided they needed to redo the election. the point is, the fraud was caught. it's very hard to have conspiracy like this and not get caught. and as long as there are safe guards to prosecuting people with this activity i think it's a risk taking and to say that people can safely go to the polls in november. >> here's another critique, this made "the wall street journal's" editorial page today. the subject is ballot harvesting. the journal wrote in part, as states extend mail voting they should tighten deadlines and ban march vesting. ensuring ballot integrity is crucial for public confidence in election outcomes and ultimately for democratic legitimacy. do they have a minute?

>> i think they have a point, but voters of color are more likely to have their ballots rejected because of some technical flaw in how the ballot is casted. we really need to work on that including making sure that voters can cure their ballots that are tossed. i think the number of reasons for the number of ballots to be protected is a smart thing. even though it has unlimited electi collection of ballots by third parties there's no proof of any fraud whatsoever related to the 2018 election. that's where as the vote count continued we saw numbers go from a republican lead to a democratic lead. i do think that the journal is right that when you have so many people out there collecting ballots, it does raise questions about voter confidence especially in this polarized atmosphere. and putting in recent limits like colorado where you can collect up to ten seems like a

smart compromise. >> how concerned are you about the scenario i laid out in my opening commentary? >> i'm very concerned. i think it's certainly possible in states like michigan and pennsylvania. which didn't have no-fault absentee balloting before. it quite possible that president trump could be ahead on election night, but as millions of ballots are counted over the days, it will lead to a shift to biden. and now shifting the claims of about mail-in balloting, he could certainly claim there is something wrong with the way the vote count is done. it's important to stick to the facts and important for the media to educate the public just because it takes time to count the vote doesn't mean something nefarious is going on behind the scenes. in fact that's a good sign that election workers are acting carefully to make sure the results are accurate and fair. >> it's very hard to get into his head and know what his

rationale might be in making the claims that he's making about mail-in voting. but here's a question that i think we can answer with science and with data. is he making an argument against his own interests? in other words, is it so clear that a republican candidate, that he would be the loser for a system that relies more on postal ballots? >> oh, i think, absolutely, he's shooting himself in his own foot. because republicans are -- if we have a pandemic raging in the fall, republicans are going to have to depend on vote by mail. in lots of places, the republican party has engaged in extensive vote by mail. they're not trying to thread a needle saying vote by absentee, but vote by mail. a strange way of distinguishing what the president is saying. point of fact, if republican voters don't want to be disenfranchise they need to vote by mail.

republicans because they were not getting assistance from the republican party had more trouble navigating the system to sign up to get an absentee ballot and voted in lower numbers than democrats letting democrats election their choice for the supreme court. i think voters need to turn this around and make sure that their voters, too, are not disenfranchised in november. >> i'm going to do my part with the platforms that you point to to educate the public. it's possible we might not have a victor on election night. and that doesn't mean by definition that something nefarious has taken place. professor hassan, thank you so much. >> thank you so much. >> what are my thoughts tweet me @smerconish. vote by mail and spend the next year checking dumpsters for the ballots. but, louis, that's just -- i me mean, it's a good sound bite, right, and you got mentioned on

cnn in front of a national audience, i guess that's cool. but the data does not support that. it's not like it's a foreign concept that we're gloes to giv a ride for the first time. five states do it by mail. they don't have a record of fraud in those states. so many assertions that get made online are jut not backed up by evidence and information. up ahead, universe of california announced that will be suspended major standardized tests as admission requirements until 2024. and eliminate them entirely by 2025. i'll tell you why i think it's a good move. by the way, my rationale is not the same as university of california. but it leads me to this week's survey question at smerconish.c smerconish.com. do you agree with the university of california system plan to eliminate the s.a.t. and a.c. t. as requires for applying to its

ten schools? plus, do you think the car you drive, a f-150 versus a subaru, that does reveal your political beliefs? and also what if you drive a tesla? he may be bringing his brand into the pandemic. his tweet brings in the matrix, eliciting a nod from i van that trump. >> remember, all i'm offering is the truth, nothing more. whoo-hoo! great tasting ensure with 9 grams of protein, 27 vitamins and minerals, and nutrients to support immune health.

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sure. okay... okay! safe drivers save 40%!!! guys! guys! check it out. safe drivers save 40%!!! safe drivers save 40%! safe drivers save 40%!!! that's safe drivers save 40%. it is, that's safe drivers save 40%. - he's right there. - it's him! he's here. he's right here. - hi! - hi. hey! - that's totally him. - it's him! that's totally the guy. safe drivers do save 40%. click or call for a quote today. my new car is transitioning. let me explain. elon musk, the famous often infamous ceo of tesla and spacex

is not exactly a shrinking violet. like the president, twitter is often his preferred method of communication. there, he's offered many bold predictions including but not limited to tesla's stock price too high in my opinion. called in a british diver sent in to save the young soccer players in it wasn't 18 a pedophile, a tweet he later deleted plus, nuclear mars or land there. and bob banken and doug hurley sent to the international space station. but musk has been making headlines for other reasons lately, he's been criticized and lauded for his recent takes on the coronavirus pandemic beginning on his downplay of the risks of covid-19, claiming that children are essentially immune and a standoff with california officials in alameda county of

the stay-at-home orders that led to the long less tesla plan. he's further ingratiated himself with his cult of loyal followers, he's forced to a hard reality. his response stot coronavirto t pandemic is widely polarized. for moo radio list earns my fascination with musk is no secret. i've been discussing the recent experience as the owner of a brand-new model y which rolled off the manufacturing line five days after imposed. i have to say the man making an interesting car. one friend accused me of buying a blue state car. he said your cnn conversion is now complete. that reminded me of when "u.s.

news" published a list of cars, if you're driving a ford, achieve, porsche, sports car or pickup you're voting red, they say. volkswagen, subaru, acura, mercedes or any hatchback likely has a democrat behind thwheel. i never saw my purchase as political. my friend have a point of other drivers. my friend wrote owning a tesla the luxurious electric car is a major liberal status symbol. but the man behind the brand is crafting a different person seaspersona online. despite bowles and other perceptions that it's a brand. musk has never been. he had this to say years ago.

>> a sort of moderate, half democratic -- i'm somewhere in the middle. socially liberal and fiscally conservative like a lot of the country is, actually. >> if musk's recent red takes on reopening, painful enough to the endure the recent twitter exchange with ivanka trump may have sent him over the edge. on sunday, musk tweeted, take the red pill. ivanka responded, take it. the red pill is a reference from the 1999 science fiction film "the matrix" by all accounts is supposed to be about unlocking the truth. the co-director is not impressed with the exchange and fired back with this tweet, f both of you. max reed emphasized the red pill metaphor saying online to red

pill is to learn that you've been defrauded and misled and that you bought into a false and diabolic ally and that the only way out is to obtain true knowledge. >> you take the blue pill, and the story ends, you make up believing whatever you want. you take the red pill, you stay in wonderland, and i show you how deep the red pill goes. remember, all i'm offering is the truth, nothing more. >> so, what are the consequences of musk straddling the political fence? maybe that my new car is really purple, despite the exterior shade of gray which suits me just fine. let's see what you're saying on my smerconish twitter and facebook pages. what do we have from facebook? what cars are us independents supposed to drive. please help. hey, rick, i may have just given you the answer. maybe it's a tesla. up ahead, those dreaded staples of high school saturday

morning, the s.a.t., the a.c.t., now on life support. where one of the nation's largest public university systems says they'll be discontinued. and that is this week's survey question @smerconish.com. do you can agree with the university of california system plan to eliminate the s.a.t. and a.c.t. as requirements for applying to its ten schools? flonase sensimist. nothing stronger. nothing gentler. nothing lasts longer. flonase sensimist. 24 hour non-drowsy allergy relief when bugs move in we stress out and spray. well, we used to. new ortho home defense max indoor insect barrier kills and prevents bugs for up to a year without odors, stains or fuss. new ortho home defense max. bugs gone. stress gone. i am totally blind. and non-24 can make me show up too early... or too late. or make me feel like i'm not really "there." talk to your doctor,

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true confessio harbored a b against the s.a.t., the scholastic aptitude test. in high school, i bombed it. and i've then watched our four children spend time with expectation that i thought would be spent elsewhere.

still, had they spent that time learning to paint or play a musical instrument, at least then they would have walked away with a life skill or a new passion which is why heim cheering the decision by one of the largest university systems in america, the university of california, as it phases out the s.a.t. and a.c.t., as a requirement, for college admissions. me, i go one step further. we should end the common app, too. the common app makes it too easy to apply to many schools. which is one reason why harvard had 43,330 applicants in 2019 for fewer than 2,000 spots. other schools sell a similar story. the common app serves as a hub for each student to apply to as many as 20 schools. a study from the national bureau of economic research finds those institutions that began accepting the common apps saw a

12% increase on number of applications in the first year. after a decade of accepting the common app, this number rises to 25%. to add insult to injury, those schools on the common app tend to be name brands, worsening the stratification between collective and less selective schools. perhaps the high number of applications fostered by the common app forces school to utilize a common barometer immediately to separate the pile. and quite naturally, that number is the s.a.t. better than applicants use a sniper approach chinstead of a shotgun blast that put more time in the process than the application process that would put more time on relying on a standardized test and to figure out which schools they actually want to attend. please go to smerconish.com and answer this survey question. do you agree with the university

of california system plan to eliminate the s.a.t. and a.c.t. requirements for plying to its ten schools. joining me now is bob sheaffer, the interim director of fair test, the national center for fair and open testing. are you singing "ding-dong the witch is dead"? >> the witch is not completely dead. but the university of california's decision to phase out the a.c.t. and s.a.t. is a major victory for those who rec nice that standardized test scores are neither fair nor accurate predictors of undergradua undergraduates' success. >> you know, and let me raise the critique, the critique is you must have a yard stick, some common form of measurement, otherwise, it puts the schools in an untenable position. what's your response? >> well, there are now 1230 credited colleges including 85%

of the top-tier liberal colleges that are test option. they're lists fairtest scott organize and they don't use the a.c.t. or s.a.t. to make admission decisions and they do just fine. independent studies show that eliminates the standardized testing requirements results in better applicants and more diversity of all sorts. so it's a win-win both for colleges who get better, more diverse applicants. and for my school students to get evaluated by more than a score. which is especially important for teenagers growing up in the no child left behind era who literally have been tested to death. >> here's another criticism of your position which happens to be my position that it represents give everybody a trophy mentality, right? these kids, they can't hack competition, life's not fair, you better get used to it, you

need to sit down and take a test so stop your explainingy. >> campaigning. >> maybe we should have a free-throw contest for it. the high school performance and grades are a better predictor of who is going to graduate than either tests can be. tell shows how poor a tool the a.c.t. and s.a.t. tests are. when you go into the data, there's just little value in requiring the tests. and that's why, already this year, 160 more colleges and universities including other states systems like the university of oregon, the university of indiana, the university of wisconsin have dropped their standardized test requirements for students applying for fall 2021 admissions. >> all right. here's a third criticism of our position. kathryn, but on the screen, the

college board and what they've had to say about this. the college board released a statement saying regardless of what happens with such policies, our mission remains the same to give all students especially low income and first generation students opportunities to show their strength. here's the key part. we must also address the disparities in course work and classrooms that the evidence shows most drive inequity in california. in other words saying it's not the fault of the test. there are inequities in terms of the curriculum being offered to different students and now you're simply seeing the end result of it? >> no question that there are many inequities in the public education system in the u.s., as in the entire society. but standardized tests doesn't address those inequities. it makes them worse. standardized tests, the s.a.t. and a.c.t., are very strongly coordinated with family income. it's a measure of socioeconomic

status. and not the ability to succeed in college. and when you rely heavily on test scores, this is what the university of california regents concluded just thick week, relying heavily on test scores results in screening out otherwise qualified students, particularly from low-income, first generation, second slang and historically disenfranchised minority groups. it's simply not needed. again, 1230 colleges and universities lists on fairtest.org are test optional right now. university of chicago, wake forest, brandeis, you don't need the tests to do high-quality selection and determine who will be successful in college. >> and to go back to where i began, imagine if, therefore, you could apply all of that prep time. it has spawned an entire cottage industry to learning to paint,

be a photographer, being proficient in a musical instrument. hey, bob, thank you enough. it will be interesting to see the result of today's survey question, we'll see if the audience agrees with the two of us. >> thank you, mike. >> let's check in on tweets and facebook comments. what do we have from twitter. there are prerequisites for college. some testing should be there because college shouldn't be remedial education. i don't think anybody is advocating that it be remedial education. it seems as if there are great disparities in applying this test to different sections of the population. here's the irony. the irony is my kids are able to take advantage of the preparation that's necessary to take a test like this. i'm not the intended beneficiary of a uc test to stay we'll continue it. i just think it's an enormous waste of resources and puts undue pressure on these kids.

i want to remind you of my survey question. do you agree with the university of california system plan to eliminate the s.a.t. and a.c.t. as requirements for applying to its ten schools? still to come, of all of the attacks that president trump is making on president obama you may think that's who he's facing in november but will the attack help him or hurt him politically? without odors, stains or fuss. new ortho home defense max. bugs gone. stress gone.

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mmm, birthday cake. and try pure protein shakes, with 24 vitamins and minerals. is it to president trump's political advantage to take on president obama? in recent weeks he's blamed his predecessor as one of the villains of the pandemic and repeatedly wielded the ominous term "obamagate."

being respectful and even seeking their counsel, what's the president's strategy here and will it work? joining me now, the perfect person to discuss, kate aernd snderson brower, is there genuine holt tilt between the two of them, hour is this about seeking partisan advantage? >> i think there's hostility between the two of them. it goes back to 2016. never before have we gotten a president who got elected running against these me political dynasties, the clintons, the bushes and the obamas. so it making sense to turn out his base. it worked for him in 2016, and i think it's a smart political move, like it or not, for him to do it. >> in the book, you speak of the unwritten rules that governor, you know, the ex-president. one is you come together in time of celebration.

this week, there was the story about whether president trump would invite president obama back to the white house for the unveiling of an official portrait. and then i started to carry it one step further on radio, thinking about the next inauguration. regardless of who wins, can we count on the former living presidents to come together? >> i think we can absolutely count on them. it's more important now than ever if they show up if he's elected to his inauguration. i think one of the things in the pandemic that's cumminome to th forecountry that president trump feels calling erdogan and putin autocrats than he does bush, clinton and obama. i think that's the back bone for the country. harry truman said once you become president, you have to remember that the 21-gun salute and all of the accolades are not about you. and i think president trump has

forgotten some of that. and i interviewed him in the oval office about it. and he said he has no sense of empathy for the men who came before him. >> listen, i love the anecdotes in the book about the relationship between the individuals, between the men, up until now, they are male. particularly, quickly, i hope you'll tell the story, the last ex-president to visit bush 41 was not who you think, you'd think 43? >> absolutely. i was surprised to learn that three days before president bush passed away, president obama was in houston and visited him. they spent several minutes just alone. president obama asked neal bush to leave the room. and bush was really sick and not doing well, he said if it was anyone else but barack obama,

this meeting would have been cancelled. but obama respected bush as the last of his generation. he wanted to pay him respect, used to call him my buddy 41. and i think that camaraderie among the former president is something important that i delved into in the book. >> well, i think it's something that most americans would like to see, regardless of party affiliation. to me, it would be the ultimate poker game. if i were if that position, i'd bring them all back and solicit their advice. great job on the book. >> thank you, michael. >> let's check in on facebook and tweets. from facebook, i think. what do we have. i agree about hands off approach, but current presidents don't usually mention the last president by name as often as trump has. here's the thing, michael, i rely more on kate than i do know that there's genuine hostility there.

i'm convinced there will be another name that will get thrown into the mix. somehow, trump is going to make hillary an issue. she could go to barbados from now until november 3rd, but somehow, he'll figure out a way to put her front and center, what it might be, i have no idea. hey, it's commencement season but this year because of the pandemic most of the speakers' words of wisdom for 2020 for graduates are being transmitted virtually, including my own. hear what we all wanted to convey to the first covid class. new sensodyne sensitivity & gum gives us the dual action effect that really takes care of both our teeth sensitivity as well as our gum issues. there's no question it's something that i would recommend.

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the class of 2020's commencement season has been like few other, thanks to the pandemic lockdown ceremonies have been cancelled or pushed back a year. speeches remotely including one by me which i'll get to in a sec, my heart breaks for all seniors, we've got one of our own. even with the joy of the family together, commencement and throwing caps in the air, this year's group has earned their sheeps and then some. and the voices are applicable not just to their class but to all of us moving forward. so what are this year's messages? >> doing what feels good. what's convenient. what's easy. that's what all kids think. unfortunately, a lot of so-called grown-up including some with fancy titles and important jobs still think that way. which is why things are so screwed up. >> in this time of trial and testing for you, and for our

nation, you have demonstrated courage. and you're an inspiration to earn american. >> over the course of your lifetime, there's going to be so many setbacks and challenges that force you to pause to look inward and to listen to the voice that says you should do it. it's your job to keep your feet on the ground in those times of self-doubt because in those moments that they teach you how to fly. >> please, hang in there. we need you to be smart. strong and resilient. with discipline and empathy, we will all get through this together. and now is the time, if ever there was one, for to us cast selflessly about one another. >> you have no idea what's about to come at you. and, man, isn't that the beautiful part of it.

the one piece of advice i would give you is embrace that. >> this is the third time that i was asked to give a college commencement. i take it quite seriously. it's a tough life lelessons. a as i told this year's audience somewhere between stairway to heaven and free bird. or trying to cram big booty fiends volume mix 17 to be played on the radio, not easy. in the midst of a pandemic, i felt privileged to speak to future leaders in the health care and science fields graduating from the university of sciences. the school was founded z in 1812 as philadelphia college of pharmacy, the first such in all of north america. you can watch my entire speech online. here's a clip. >> armed with the skill set that comes from studies at the universities of sciences. many of you will become involved on the front line in this and

future threats to public health. it is not enough this be some of your vocational pursuit, it must also be all of your civic duty. before the pandemic we were experiencing an ignorance and debasement of science. the most pressing questions of our time, think climate change, food, water security, matters of health care were too often being solved with ideology and not evidence. society needs your knowledge. the public requires your c contributi contribution. as president john f. kennedy said in his ninaugural address, only a few generations have been granted the role of helping our freedom while it's in maximum danger. he was right. please be vocal. be active. stand up for science.

>> i'm already at work for an address next year in case invited. i have a john lennon lyric stuck in my head the last couple of weeks, life is what happens to you when you're busy making other plans. still to come, your best and worst tweets and facebook comments. and we'll give you the final answer to the question, do you agree with the university of california system's plan to eliminate the s.a.t. and a.c.t. as requirements for applying to its 10 schools? plus a powerful decongestant. so you can always say "yes" to putting your true colors on display. say "yes" to allegra-d. to putting your true colors on display. hey allergy muddlers... achoo! ...do your sneezes turn heads? try zyrtec... ...it starts working hard at hour one... and works twice as hard when you take it again the next day. zyrtec muddle no more. no

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happy memorial day, everybody. remember those who paid with their lives so we can enjoy it this weekend. time to see how you responded to this week's survey question at smerconish.com. do you agree with the university of california system's plan to eliminate the s.a.t. and a.c.t. as requirements for applying to its 10 schools? survey says? the yeses have it -- wow, i'm kind of surprised. a lot of voting, more than 14,000 three-quarters. i had predicted it would be more divided than that. but three-quarters are of my mindset, my mindset and that of my guests. what else came in during the course of this program? smerconish i'd love to see the s.a.t. and a.c.t. abolished but

first i'd like to see at real donald trump's score. i bet it was a perfect, huge -- lauren, it was the best -- no, you know what it was, it was a beautiful score. the best, it was beautiful. look, i'm not one to joke. whatever his was, it was probably higher than mine. what else came in? this is so important. get analysis just now on at smerconish cnn, kids should be spending their time other than studying for a test that will never make them better people. gretchen, thank you for that. if i invested the time i spent preparing for the test or my kids did, they could paint a hell of a picture. instead it's a total time drain as i see it. one more if we have time. what do we have? smerconish watching your segment

on cars and party afifiliations you keep saying tesla, instead of tesla, why? you own one? i used to say tesla, then i listen today a podcast with elon musk and when i heard musk say tesla, i figured i'm going to say it that way as well. i'm not trying to be cute. one more, hustle if we can do it. we can do it. i drive a used lexus, used acura, admire and think elon musk is a genius, have made lots of money playing his stock and i'm a conservative. the guy is brilliant. i think if i weren't driving the car i'd like he's crazy but because i am i understand there's a method to his madness. we're a couple days away from the spacex launch. i want to discuss it because i

find it fascinating that everything today is viewed through a partisan lens, which is a shame, including the car i'm driving. happy memorial day weekend, everybody. stay safe, socially distanced, i'll see you here next week same time, same bat station. good morning, to you. we hope this morning has been good to you so far wherever you might be in the world so far it is saturday may 23rd, i'm christi paul. >> i'm victor blackwell. you are in the cnn "newsroom." >> for the first time in at least ten weeks all 50 states are reopened in some capacity. it's memorial day weekend, the unofficial start to summer. we know you want to get out with your friends but health officials have concerns about spreading the virus. >> on the east and west coast, beaches are open but capacity is limited and social distancing being enforced. >> this hour we're