means one less person vulnerable, one less person exposed, and one step closer to a healthier community. so for now, keep your distance. but don't lose count. we'll have some catching up to do. murder in the third degree and manslaughter. i'm michael smerconish in philadelphia. charges were filed yesterday against police officer derek chauvin, in connection with the death of george floyd in minneapolis on monday. that video that we've all seen seems like the sort of textbook

example of criminal conduct that we lawyers studied in law school. if a picture is worth a thousand words, then eight minutes of video must be worth one word. guilty. the complaint filed yesterday is as difficult to read as the video is to watch, quote, bwc, that's body worn video camera showed mr. floyd continued to move and breathe at 8:24:24 mr. floyd stopped moving. at 8:25:31, the video appears to show mr. floyd ceasing to breathe or speak. lane said, want to roll him on his side. keung checked mr. floyd's right wrist for a pulse and said i couldn't find one. none of the officers moved from their positions. at 8:27. 34, the defendant moved his knee from mr. floyd's neck. the defendant had his knee on

mr. floyd's neck for 8 minutes and 46 seconds in total. two minutes and 53 seconds of this was after mr. floyd was nonresponsive. the result has strained relations and bent the boundaries of lawlessness for the past four months. but when the smoke clears in minneapolis, the communities will face a potentially more difficult test and that is providing those charged with a fair trial. an opportunity to present their facts while maintaining a presumption of innocence. that's going to be extremely difficult. it's hard to fathom what that defense might entail. when death occurs the prosecution just prove beyond a reasonable doubt that but for that the death would be hard to prevent. in this case, autopsy indicated that mr. floyd did not die from

sufficient indication. the combined effects of mr. floyd being restrained by the police, his underlying health conditions and any potential intoxicants in his system likely contributed to his death. many in the public, members of the media, some minnesota public officials have used the word "murder" to describe what kurd. john harrington, the commissioner of the minnesota public safety said this -- >> i will tell you that the vast majority, the great people of minnesota, the great people of minneapolis who are still having their guts ripped out about the lloyd murder, i will call it a murder, that's what it looked like to me. i don't want to prejudice this from a criminal perspective. i'm just calling what i see it. >> similarly, the mayer of atlanta keisha lance bottoms last night said this. >> i am a mother to four black children in america.

one of whom is 18 years old. and when i saw the murder of george floyd, i hurt like a mother would hurt. >> they both may be right. it looks the same way to me. but that's not to be decided with finality today. this officer and any others charged are entitled to a fair trial, including their version of the facts. and that will be the toughest test of our system. i want to know what you think. go to my website at this hour@smerconi hour@smerconish.com, answer the question, if you were a juror, would you presume derek chauvin to be innocent? joining me charles ramsey, he co-chaired a task force. and tom fuentes who spent 30 years at the fbi, including a

director, he himself was a police officer for six years before that. he's at morrison mcdaniel, a company that performs police testing. tom, i'll start with you, it's hard to envision any exculpatory facts, do you agree? >> i completely agree. i told you yesterday on the radio show, i thought this officer should have been arrested the very first day. because of the fact you have a nine-minute video of him sitting on his knee on his back with his knee on the neck. and yeah, we'll have the serology come back and whether or not the officer knew floyd before this incident. all of that is going to the strength of the incident. and many of these police altercations that result in the death of the subject we don't know because the subject is running away. the officer fires a gun.

and shoots him in the back. or they're wrestling. or the subject is not under control. in this case, he's completely under control. and whatever he had done leading to the arrest, the incident should be over. that subject floyd should have been transported to the police department immediately. >> chief, the facts seem so bad on the surface that not even the usual union support has been a part of this case so far. >> yeah. i agree. i read pa letter earlier from te national f.o.p. condemning the actions of the officer in place. until my mind, without question, the actions of the officers contributed to the death of mr. floyd. no question about it in my mind. certainly, the one officer with his knee on his neck, the two other officers were also pinning him down. and in most police training,

positional asphyxia is something that is covered on a regular basis. if you have pressure to the chest or other areas of the body where breathing becomes an issue, you cannot do that. now we're talking at least eight minutes or better, including 2 1/2 minutes where the individual had no pulse. again, i'm not a lawyer. but if that's not murder, i don't know what is. >> tom fuentes, you wonder what changed in the eyes of the prosecution between that presser on thursday and then the bringing of the charges yesterday. >> right. i don't know. because the problem i've had with this is by not arresting him the very first day, and now following three or four nights of severe uprising, the arrest looks like they might be trying

to placate the mob. i hope that doesn't send a message when there's an incident with a police officer, especially a white officer, you'll riot. that should not be allowed either. that should not be the precedent that gets set in the case that they only made the arrest now. >> chief riley, where would we be in the ascension of video in either this case or the ahmaud arbery case? >> the officer was probably relieved of duty, in the sense of administrative duty, still without pay but more than likely would not be fired without video evidence. and internal affairs would be investigating. and the odds of that leading to termination are quite frankly remote. had it not been for video. thank god we had video. this would be a different outcome. it would be the officer's word against the witnesses there and

it probably would have weighed heavily on the side of the officer. >> tom fuentes, the state charges were brought against the one officer. what's the incident of now federal involvement? it used to be that the federal conducted their own investigation. i wonder if that sting is missing. i'd love to hear your perspective. >> back in 1981, march 3rd, rodney king was beaten and by state police officers. and a year after, the civil rights case, based on evidence gathered by the fbi, the civil rights trial was done. and two of those officers got sent to federal prison. so there is a likelihood, no matter what happens here, if they get convicted and get sent to prison on the state afternoon chas, that's one thing. but the civil rights charges and that's not double jeopardy.

it's a complete separate charge for violating mr. floyd's right. and that could still be an outcome later to have that trial occur and still have the officers go to prison. >> and finally, chief, i'm glad that tom brings up the rodney king case because i've reacquainted myself with those facts. i know many will say, look, in the end, it was a white juri in simi valley. i can't imagine there's more that people need to know, sitting in judgment between the nine or so minutes that exists that we've already seen in this case. >> well, first of all, you never know what a jury is going to do. you know that full well. even more importantly, in the points that tom made, in the rodney king case it did result in actions from the civil rights division and department of justice. but the view of the department of justice today is not the same as it was in the early '90s,

quite frankly. you know, in the minds of a lot of people, the "j" in the department of justice no longer stands for justice for all. just look at what's going on in our country right now as it relates to the department of justice. so, you don't have that mechanism we had in the '90s and before where people have a sense of calm because they think they're getting a fair shake. my concern is that no longer is in the minds of many people because we've got a serious problem for a long time. >> chief ramsey, tom fuentes, thank you both for being here. why do protests calling for justice sometimes lead to looting and violence? joining me now to discuss is clifford stock, professor of psychology in the uk. he co-authored "the psychology

of riots and why it's never just mindless violence." why did the charges against the officeral l aa aal allay the vi? >> for start, we know it was a whole group of officers there. and the perception among the people of the illegitimacy of the moment, against the whole of the usa, it is in effect symbolic of a wider, hour deeply rooted structured problem and how communities in the u.s. are policed on an everyday basis across the whole country. >> you are written when people riot their collective behavior is never mindless. it may often be criminal, but it's structured and coherent with meaning and conscious intent. it's hard to glean that from what we're seeing on our

television screens right now. writt whe wherein lies the structure of that behavior? >> well, unfortunately, whenever we look at events, one often finds what people do very structured and meaningful, that the idea of random and chaotic violence stack up. however, when we try leverage that perception on top of our tv screens, when we look beyond our tv screens beyond the detailed reality what happens on the ground, analysis makes no sense from a scientific point of view. so within the scientific community we had to reject that notion and psychology because we had for explain why people do what they do. and through the psychology, how we make sense of these crowd events so we can prevent them,

the real mission here is to start rioting. not pretend we're frying to do that through moralizing about it but to get to grips about the underlying causes of why it happens over and over again. let's bear in mind that this is not the first time in recent history that waves of riots have taken off across the u.s. and indeed, we're seeing waves of rioting around the world on a regular basis. and we have to start to address the broader issues around which those riots come about. and the idea of chaotic and mindless violence will never help us to do that. >> professor stott, if you were to get a telephone call from an american mayor, an american governor, seeking your counsel, your expertise on the subject of rioting, and they were looking for a lesson that they could apply today so as to prevent violence tonight, what would you say to them? >> well, the first thing i'd do is point them in the direction of the chief of police in atlanta who had the courage to

come out and negotiate with people in the crowd. and speak to them about their genuine underlying concern. recognize that dialogue is a key component to de-escalation in these circumstances. throwing militarized policing into the mix is really just a recipe for escalation. and the solution is through dialogue negotiation. we should also recognize this isn't a problem that's simply going to be solved on the ground in the context of the event. this is about a broader structured problem in relationship to policing across the u.s. that has to be addressed if one wants to move closer to an environment where we're not going to see this violence crop up again. >> i'm limited on time, but if you can give the 30-second answer to why it sometimes it leads to looting and sometimes 2 does not, you'd say what? >> looting is an expression of power. and if i can draw on the cliched

terminology of martin luther king riots are language of the voice of the unheard. we have to recognize that these are expressions of power in a context where people perceive their relationship to authority have become illegitimate and unsustainable. and that the reaction to that is the consequences of what we're seeing on the streets of the usa right now. >> professor stott, thank you so much for your time. >> thank you. >> for your thought, tweet me @smerconish or website. kathryn, what do we have? we tried peaceful protesting, we took a knee. they didn't like that either. it does make you reflect, colin kaepernick, i get it. from twitter, smerconish conissue, your question is posed wrong. as you know, everyone must be

presumed innocent until proven guilty, need to reframe it. i don't know if it's posed wrong, ron. i need to know whether you'd be viewing this defendant with the universal condemnation and use of the word "murder" in action gz p put yourself in the jury box in 12, to that. by the way, don't misstate my legal obligation for sympathy for the defendant. it's not that. i'm in the sideline and i'm wondering what's to come of the judicial process and going to be a tall order. make sure you're voting at the website at smerconish.com, the survey question which asks the following, if you were a juror, would you presume derek chauvin to be innocent? up ahead, the president is

demanding revoke 230. what exactly does that mean? and joe biden narrowed the field by picking a woman running mate. ological he be almost certainly be choosing a woman of color. here's one of the names in contention. >> i wear this each and every day. and i pray over my children each and every day. so what i seal happe happening streets of atlanta is not atlanta. this is not a protest. this is not in the spirit of martin luther king jr. this is chaos. with less of the sugar you don't. [grunting noise] i'll take that. yeeeeeah! 30 grams of protein and 1 gram of sugar ensure max protein. now available in twelve-count. stock up today!

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are recent events pushing joe biden to select a running mate who is a person of color? you'll recall he previously pledged he'll choose a female running mate. by ahmaud arbery in georgia, george floyd in minnesota, and the central park white woman who called the cops on a black bird-watcher. and then trump saying, and then does it increase the pressure for joe biden to choose those women who are of color. joining me bakari sellers, former north carolina sate representative. and author of book "my

vanishing" color. bakari, did amy klobuchar stock just take a nosedive? >> well, amy klobuchar's stock definitely does not because of what's happening in minnesota. but and with the respect that amy klobuchar paid to the people of color, she didn't even try. in a two-month period, yes, she's going to struggle. i think elizabeth warren's struggles are totally different. i think you're not go having a 78-nominee and a 70-year-old vice president, also knowing in the back of your mind that charlie baker is going to be able to replace her probably with himself. so, i just think that eliminates elizabeth warren. so, i truly believe everything that you outlined, michael, you forgot to name breonna taylor,

no fault of your own, we've had so much trauma with people of color in the past years and decade in this country, i believe it's now time for have a female women of color. >> i didn't mean -- i was using the two of them as an example. you think that joe biden is now, what is the word, obligated to make a running mate a female, but female of color? >> my mom and her friends they're going to vote for joe biden. if it's amy klobuchar, whomever, elizabeth warren. but they're not going to be activated. they're not going to stand up in the chumps every sunday, encouraging and making sure. they're not going to be filling up the church vans with gas. they're not going to be talking to their club and aka sorority sisters making sure that their

nephews are coming out and picking up their cousins at a gas station and bring them out. it's one thing to vote for one, but we have to activate that base. the only way you do that, for women of color. for far too long, the democratic party has ever said thank you to black women. we've never empowered black women. >> the response from my radio audience saying this sets a dangerous precedence. saying in advance, i'll select a females or woman of color, picking someone is best to step in it god forbid them need to do that. >> i think it's mutual exclusive. i think susan rice can step in. i think kamala harris can step in. there's also something else that we need on this ticket.

we need that sense of excitement. and what we're seeing on the streets is not just some individual who are is rabid going around protesting and looting. what we're actually seeing is pain and trauma that goes for decades. this is not just about george floyd. this is not just about ahmaud arbery. this is about systemic racism in this country and now we have to make sure that we have somebody that can funnel that energy to the voting boone ining booth. >> bakari, it used to be a badge when you have a history in law enforcement, is it an attribute that kamala harris was a prosecutor, is it an attribute that val demings was a police chief? >> you know, i think you have to look at their records. not only their records and where they are now. you have kamala harris and amy klobuchar and val demings, police chiefs and law enforcements and prosecutors in

cam kamala's case during a time in an era where you had to be tough on crime. many of those policies are outdated. much of that rhetoric is no long acceptable and thank god because it creates a mass industrial complex. what we have to do is see people were they were and where they are, the evolution thereof. speaking of kamala harris, the folks on twitter are 50/50 on kamala. but on the streets, the young people i talk to, the individuals who i go to church with and talk with, they're ready for kamala harris. it's something that she has to articulate and overcome. >> bakari, the book is great, by the way. i know you hired a model for the front of the book. kathryn, do you have that handy? i know he hired some cute kid to pose on the cover of that book to sell copy. look at that.

>> and now, i look like a young marvin gay. i know we've come a long way. >> what's going on. see you. smerconish, on twitter and facebook pages. what do we have, smerconish, more liberal stupidity. don't look for qualifieses just focus on gender and color. freedom, i answered that joe said it was a female. now it engrains in the process it's okay to say to a candidate will you pledge in advance to the supreme court, for the vice president or for the cabinet? i don't like setting that precedent. buts the there's a question hert is a lot of stuff going on right now racheting up the pressure on him to select a person of color. i want to make sure you're

answering the survey question @smerconish.com. if you were a juror, would you presume derek chauvin to be innocent? cup ahead, the president sad he wants to revehicle 230. kw what exactly is 230. and a new era for space travel perhaps with regular folks. i'll discuss it with a former astronaut. if you have a garden you know, weeds are low down little scoundrels. draw the line with roundup. the sure shot wand extends with a protective shield to target weeds precisely and kill them right down to the root. roundup brand. trusted for over 40 years. from anyone else. so why accept it from your allergy pills?

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1,000 times, this week twitter began fact-checking and hiding tweets. the president began railing on twitter, quote, revoke 230. he's referring to the law known as the communications decency act, what is it? fortunately, my next guest literally wrote the book on the subject. "the 26 words that created the

ent internet" is the title. he's speaking here on his own behalf and on any official capacity. professor, i want to put on the screen, the 26 words, here they are. no provider or user of an interactive computer service shall be treated as the publisher or speaker of any information provided by another information content provider. in lay terms, what does that mean? >> so, what those words mean is basically that any online platform, whether it's social media or website wikipedia, yelp, they are responsible for any content that they create. but unless one of the few limited exceptions applies, they're not responsible for any posts, any video, any images that their users post on the site. >> if i -- this may be a weak analogy, but i'll try. if i defame you via telephone,

you don't get to hold the telephone company responsible. if i defame you via newspaper, you can hold the newspaper responsible. in my weak hypothetical or analogy, twitter is regarded as a phone line at this point. is that fair? >> kind of. basically it created a third kind of hybrid category that goes back to the analogy that's probably better used for bookstores and newsstands that distribute large amounts of third party content to other people. and don't necessarily review all of it. so it's kind of somewhere in between there. but, yeah, it basically says that under section 230, a social med mediaia site will not be libel for the content. but if you wrote a letter to the editor posted in the newspaper then there would be potential

liability for the newspaper. >> what does the future look like without 230? what if 230 is revoked? >> so, we don't know for sure, because section 230 was passed in 1996. that was really the beginning of the modern internet. so there are two primary options. one would be that sites would be much more restrictive as to how much user content they allow. our current internet is really built on an ecosystem of vast amount of user content. sites are responsible legally for what their users post. there might be a chance that they're more restrictive or start posting their own conthaecontent that they can control. the other option before 230 was passed that the site might actually reduce their moderation. because there was suggestion in

case law that if a site actually does more moderation, it can actually increase its potential liability. so we don't faux fknow for sure haven't tested this yet. >> in the first of your possible outcomes, though. if professor jeff kosseff were the provider of controversial content and i were the platformal allowing to you publish those views. if you take away my shield. my liability shield. i'm not going to be so inclined as to give you platform or promote your work. i'm trying to avoid linking you directly to the issue at hand because i respect your day job. but is this not a case of be careful what you wish for? >> there definitely is the possibility not only for controversial posters but for all posters of 230 do actually be fewer avenues to be able to express your views on without

first being -- going through some sort of vetting process. and the other possibility and this just comes from case law is that if the platform got some sort of complaint it would end up being on notice of the potential defamation or some other legal concerns. and they'd be more likely to take it down. again, you don't know for sure because this really is uncharted territory. remember, section 230 was passed when the dominant platforms were prodi and comp puserve which played a different role. >> right, i arrest that mark zuckerberg was 11 or 12 when this was passed so it was not with facebook in mind. professor, thank you for your expertise. >> thank you for having me. >> speaking of facebook, this comes from facebook. what do we have? i love watching conservatives support a president who wants to

abridge 1st amendment rights. louis, does he want to abridge first amendment rights or a more pure form? what's interesting as i listen to professor kosseff if 230 were to go away, two potential scenarios emerge. one is a restrictive scenario where twitter says we're not going to post the work of donald trump because we don't want to get sued. the alternative is, it becomes the wild west, that they completely step back and don't police any content. i don't think it's going away, frankly. and by executive order, i don't know how something that got into law could be removed by executive order. it's an interesting issue. please make sure you're answering the question at smerconish.com. my website.

pretty prevauk tifv preprock ti getting heat on this. if you were a juror, would you presume derek chauvin to be innocent? and astronauts launching aboard spacex. my next guess is an astronaut to tweet from a space space station. ase sensimist. 24 hour non-drowsy allergy relief tenergy intoll whohelping others.eir to anyone helping and caring in their own way. thank you. like you, we're always on. we're proud to put our energy behind you. southern company thousands of women with metastatic breast cancer, which is breast cancer that has spread to other parts of the body, are living in the moment and taking ibrance.

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voltaren. the joy of movement. for spending a perfectly reasonable amount of time on the couch with tacos from grubhub? grubhub's gonna reward you for that with a $5 off perk. (doorbell rings) - [crowd] grubhub! (fireworks exploding) once again, spacex and nasa gearing up this afternoon to potentially make history. at 3:29 eastern the crew and astronauts attempted to be sent to the international space station. it will most likely come down to the weather forecast. 50% chance today, 40% chance tomorrow. the president and vice president pence will once again travel to kennedy space center.

joining me now to discuss is retired astronaut michael massimino has been covering the launch for discovery channel today. also the author of "spaceman." mr. massimino when i was watching the other day and they were within 16 or 17 minutes of liftoff and then called off. i think of tom brady going out to the super bowl and having thrown his passes and now being told you can we're not going out today. >> i'll tell you what, that's a good way to describe it. you're all fired up, you're ready to go, we know with astronauts, you never know if you'll actually going to go. just at my launch desk at kennedy space center and saying you're going on a florida vacation and maybe you'll see a

launch. so they know it's part of the thrill. >> how did the old guard, if you don't mind me putting you in that category, regard the private nature of this mission? are you all cool with that? >> oh, maryeah, michael, i sure. when i first started talking about this, with nasa, 10, 12 years ago, in between my old spaceflights and they started talking about what they were going to do with spacex and other commercial companies. and i thought, there's no way they can do this but they had a lot of credibility in the international space station. once i saw them return the booster. i don't know if you've seen it, out in the middle of the ocean, they hit a little target barge out there i thought, okay, that's it. these guys can do it. i'm a total believer. they have their own launch operation there. that's the only way. >> you were the first to tweet from space.

put that tweet up on the screen so everybody can see it. what firsts might come from this mission? >> well, thank you for mentioning that tweet. i got made fun of on "saturday night live" for that tweet. but that's another thing. the thing about this here, it's the first privatization flight. it's the first time that humans are getting on board a private space station. with nasa with galactic, for example, this is the first time that astronauts are getting on board a private space ship. and the first time that a private space ship is going to orbit with people to the international space station. if they launch today, whenever they launch that date is going to mark as space exploration. i think it will be remembers for hundreds of years. before this point, it's always been governments sending people into orbits. from now on, it's governments

and also private companies and it opens up a vast amount of commercial opportunity. we'll see what happens. and today is a really important day for that reason. >> mike massimino, fingers crossed for a safe mission today. or whatever it takes place. >> thank you for having me. still to come your best and worst tweets. facebook comments. final results of the survey question from smerconish.com. if you were a juror, would you presume derek chauvin to be innocent?

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responded to the survey question at smerconish.com. thank you to those who voted. if you were a juror, would you presume derek chauvin to be innocent? survey says. 82 -- well, isn't this interesting. nearly -- i'll call it 18,000 and change and 82% say no. and therein lies the observation that i was making at the outset of the program, which is to say, you watch that tape, we have all watched that tape. i've gone through the exercise of trying to identify is there anything that could be exculpatory? i can't think of anything. maybe a causation argument. the system is going to be really

tested in trying to provide this officer, and the others if they're charged, with a trial that provides them with what they're entitled to, that is presumption of innocence. that's going to be tough. what else do we have? terrible survey. just like killing somebody in fifth avenue. murder in plain site. you're normalizing it. no, i'm not. you couldn't be on this jury. i don't know that i could be on this jury. somehow we have to find 12 people who can wipe the slate clean but you're not in that category. nobody is normalizing it. what else came in? quit calling them protests and call them riots and try some hone honesty. luke, some of the folks are

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