certainly will continue. >> all right. well, i appreciate your time, valerie jarrett. thanks very much for being with us tonight. >> of course. >> and thanks very much to all of you for being with us as always, as our breaking news coverage of these protests across the country continues now with anderson. >> erin, thanks. good evening. we are seeing some of the largest demonstrations yet in cities across the country. overwhelmingly peaceful, not rioting, not looting. we're seeing protesting. in philadelphia, washington, here in new york and minneapolis where george floyd was murdered last week, and where today just down the river in the state capital, st. paul, minnesota's attorney general upgraded charges against derek chauvin and the other officers involved in the killing. keith ellison, the attorney general, bringing charges the first time. these are the mugshots of the ex-police officers. derek chauvin kept his knee on his neck long after the heart stopped beating, the charge was

raised from third degree to second degree murder. in a moment i'll talk with attorney general ellison. also president obama adding his voice to the debate in a virtual town hall. and tonight we'll talk with kareem abdul-jabbar. he's both a basketball and civil rights legend. there is other breaking news on the military response to the demonstrations. a stunning rebuke from james mattis, the president's first defense secretary and a retired marine corps four-star general. general mattis not only slams the president's photo op at st. john's episcopal church, but his entire approach to the military and governing. the president he says is the first in his lifetime who, quote, does not try to unite the american people, does not even pretend to try. let me just repeat that. the man hand picked by the president to be his first defense secretary, a man who spent his life in service to this country and to this country's constitution, now says that the president of the united states does not even pretend to try to unite this country. there is a lot to get to tonight, but let's start with

cnn's miguel marques in minneapolis. miguel, i'm wondering how the news of the new charges has been received by protesters there today. >> reporter: with a sense of relief and uncertainty. i do want to show you sort of this spot where mr. floyd breathed his last breath. they've added -- it's become sort of celebratory. this mural has gone up and it's really, really striking. this is the spot where mr. floyd was on the ground, where that knee was to his neck with officer chauvin sitting there, sort of -- as blase as though he were standing in line at the bank, for eight minutes and 46 seconds. people are relieved by the charges today because i don't think a lot of them believe that there would be charges or increased charge for officer chauvin, and then charges for the other three officers. they are glad to see it come so quickly. they are uncertain about those charges as they don't really know that they are going to see convictions in the end.

you look at freddy gray, you look at so many other cases where there were not convictions, and this is an audience -- these are people who are accustomed to being let down. it does feel different, though, because everybody across this city and as we are seeing across the country are coming out. all ages, all races, coming out wanting equality. that videotape is so unmistakable in its -- its evilness, the sense that someone was dying in front of them. and not only was the officer who had his knee to his neck just so calm about it, but the other officers, says the attorney general, stood around, made sure that nobody, witnesses, others who were around here, nobody could get to him, nobody could see exactly what they were doing. so while people are happy here tonight, they are waiting. they are waiting to see if there will be convictions.

>> what have demonstrations been like today? what are they anticipating tonight? obviously there's a lot of people in america who are sitting at home watching this. they see what happens late at night, what has happened in some cities. they see looting going on, people stealing things, and yet you see the images today and that we have seen day after day of tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of people likely all told, going into the streets day after day after day, overwhelmingly peaceful. it is an extraordinary sight to see city after city, just this turnout in the midst of a pandemic, no less, in the midst -- i mean, you know, people know about social distancing. they know the dangers. and yet they are saying, this is more important than my personal health. >> reporter: well, certainly the anger has driven people out as

well and to disregard some of those social distancing rules. but there have been silent protests today in st. paul. there is a protest going on in minneapolis right now where people are gathering, maybe 500 strong or so. but this area has really become the epicenter, and it is a place of sadness and profound sort of reflection, but it's also a place that's become a bit of a celebration. there is food. there is water. there are tents set up everywhere where everybody is offering barbecue and any sort of household needs you might have. you can even register to vote down here, so it's become a place that has brought not just this community. the people who live directly here, but people from across the city, across the state are coming here to take in this spot and try to figure out to kneel, to pray, the governor has been here, the police chief has been here, the family of mr. floyd has been here. try to figure out and meditate

and think about where the act that happened here takes us next. anderson? >> and that's something former president obama spoke about today and we'll play some of that, miguel. thank you. now more from keith ellison, minnesota's attorney general. he spoke earlier today, quote, tremendous sense of weight he feels at this moment. attorney general ellison, what made you decide to upgrade the charges to second degree murder against ex-officer chauvin? >> well, we evaluated all the incoming evidence. we evaluated, you know, a lot of material. there is a range of it. medical reports, medical examiner reports, videotape, all kinds of information that we felt that the proper charge would be second degree murder, and that it would be proper to charge the other three with aiding and abetting in that. >> as you know, the family of mr. floyd, his attorney had wanted first degree murder

charges. that would have required that officer chauvin -- that it was premeditated -- there was premeditation. >> right. >> i assume you found no evidence of premeditation. >> not -- as of this time, no. the investigation is ongoing. if we find evidence which would support that charge, we would charge it. i'm committed to holding, you know, the defendants accountable at the highest ethical charge, meaning that the charges have to be supported by the facts, have to be supported by the law. but if it's there, we would charge it. we would not hesitate if we found the information to support it. >> the other three officers, what should they have done in this circumstance? i know one officer -- i've read the criminal complaint. one officer raised concerns about, about mr. floyd, asked if -- i guess asked chauvin if he should be turned on his side, and chauvin said words to the

effect of, no, he's staying right where he is. >> well, our theory of the case, they continue to sit on his body, which affected his ability to move forward. we consider that aiding. the fact that they never rendered aid. it was a departmental policy to do so and to intervene. they had a responsibility to intervene, to give aid. and they didn't do so. and so -- and then they affirmatively assisted in the assault which resulted ultimately in the death of mr. floyd. >> is it -- i mean, i find it just so stunning that not only did mr. chauvin sit with his knee on mr. floyd's neck for more than eight minutes, but that more than two minutes and 47 seconds, almost three minutes

of that time was after he was nonresponsive and after they knew he did not have a pulse or could not find a pulse. i mean, if any of the officers had at least at that point tried to assist mr. floyd -- and the fact that nobody tried to assist mr. floyd after they knew he didn't have a pulse is just inexplicable to me. >> i think many people around the world make that same observation. >> you have also pointed out how difficult it is to convict a police officer. i believe in minnesota it's only happened once. and i know the prosecutor that is appointed to this was the prosecutor who was able to get that conviction. i heard you say earlier. can you just talk about why it is so difficult? because obviously for any criminal justice reform, accountability is essential. and just moving forward for the future, it's good to know why it's so hard to convict police. >> well, i mean, weren't we all

raised to believe that if you have a problem, the people you should call is the police? juries tend to resolve doubts in favor of the police. where there is a credibility dispute, they have a tendency to believe the police. there are many times when that credibility is not deserved or warranted in individual cases, and so that is one of the issues. the other is that, you know, there are many kind of immunities, sort of -- the police are legally authorized to use force in circumstances beyond that of ordinary citizens. all these things kind of conspire. in some cases around the country, police have a cozy relationship with people who hold political and economic power. so they look out for them. and so the net effect is that it's very difficult to hold a police accountable even when there is a violation of law.

you look at the walter scott case. >> have you -- what have you told the family in this case about the chances of getting a conviction? >> well, you know what i do? i don't really lay odds on that. what i say is that we are going to prepare, we are going to organize, we are going to make sure we put on the best case we possibly can. we are going to check every link in the prosecutorial chain to make sure it's tight. and then at the end of the day it's really in the hands of the jury. and so -- and we believe that people are fair. if we can help the jury understand what's really happening here, what their duties and obligations are, we're confident we will get that conviction. >> attorney general ellison -- i appreciate your time. thank you. >> thank you, sir. >> more now on making these four cases, joining us cnn legal analyst and former federal prosecutor gloria coats, also

gloria brown marshall, john j. justice here in new york. author of race, law in american society. 1607 to present. first, your reaction to what the attorney general did today, the charges now as they stand. >> well, two things. first, in minnesota many people don't realize the third degree murder charge was not going to be able to stand regardless. that would require you to have both an intent -- the intent -- unintentional act of killing, but also to act with a depraved indifference. meaning that you intended or didn't intend is all very waffly language. in reality in minnesota, you cannot think about third degree murder without thinking about the quintessential examples of, say, shooting into a crowded space, or driving down the wrong side of the highway. those are types of crimes that are contemplated when you intend to harm maybe someone, but no one in particular. and third degree murder charges in minnesota, if you only are focusing on one particular target, you cannot actually

charge that. so it was probably an error to do so in the first place by the county attorney. under minnesota law it has two different ways to get to it, anderson. either intentional, which does not require premeditation or unintentional which we are seeing charged here based on a felony or attempt to commit a felony. what we're seeing the felony being is the underlying cause of assaulting mr. george floyd close to death, causing great bodily harm, in fact death. i think this is the right charge to make here. the accomplice liability is also commensurate with what we actually are seeing here. and it was necessary and one that could potentially go up higher to premeditated but what we see right now, he's made the right call. >> professor brown marshall, we've seen what's in the criminal complaint. there is a lot we don't know about the interaction. something happened in a police vehicle because mr. floyd was in the back seat of a police vehicle for a while before being brought back outside and put on the ground and killed. i assume that will come out in

the trial and who knows which way that will move any potential jury. but i'm wondering what you make of what we saw today of the new charges. >> i was concerned about minnesota attorney general ellison's kind of neutral stance. he seemed more a politician than the kind of advocate i would want to zealously defend the rights of mr. floyd. i mean, my concern is that he's bringing in the prosecutor who is not trusted within the black community, and someone who has, yes, has won conviction of an officer, but that was a black officer who accidentally shot a white woman. and so the problem with the prosecutor has been one that's been under the microscope of a black community of what has been

seen as oppression of black people in that county. i'm concerned about this cozy relationship between ellison and freeman. >> laura, is there anything that can be done about that? i mean, at this point, obviously -- i mean, ellison said about how difficult it is to get a conviction. and as professor was just saying, the fact that the only police officer who was convicted was black. >> well, the county attorney was wrong to draw some sort of parallel in a racially tone deaf way to suggest the facts in that case were analogous to what we're seeing here or the racial dynamic would have zero impact on a new jury looking at new sets of facts with a black victim and white officers. and some who are officers of color. but remember that keith ellison is not new to the people of minnesota. he is the first african-american elected statewide in minnesota. he served in congress for more than 12 years. he is somebody who also represented indigent defendants in the criminal justice system.

and frankly, a lot of people are talking right now about many attorney generals would actually look at a power grab and say, i want to be the face of this and i want to do the entire prosecution and ignore the institutional knowledge and pipeline of otherwise seasoned career attorneys. he himself said today, look, i have done these cases, but on the other side. so i think part of his stance is based on the acknowledgment that it is entirely appropriate to rely on people in the office who have experience. however, she is right when she says, professor, the idea of there being healthy skepticism largely around the hennepin county attorney for his failure to charge the officers in the jamar clark case, and also because past is prologue and people are well aware even when cases are charged, justice is a multi-tiered system when it comes to the flow charts of officer-involved shootings. arrests, firing, arrests, indictments, the trial, the conviction, a sentence. each of these steps have to be

met and will be met with skepticism until really people have full confidence in the criminal justice system. >> professor brown marshall, the new criminal complaint says one of the officers was ready to employ different restraint but the other officers involved chose not to use it. do the different accounts of the officers come into play? i mean, is it possible they could flip on each other? >> i think it's necessary. i think that also was part of the motivation to support the higher charge, a more serious charge. i think also the relationship between george floyd and derek chauvin at that bar where they both worked is going to play into this. it's going to take people coming out and speaking. and the last thing -- i just want to add -- is this necessary part of what an officer was supposed to do. officer lane pulled a weapon when george floyd was sitting in the car. that was in the initial charging

report. so we see that these -- and the fact as you pointed out, there was no resuscitation at all. even the ambulance, when it arrived, did an attempt to resuscitate. i mean, the system failed george floyd on every level. but then w.b. dubois said the system was never meant to protect us in the first place and that's what we're seeing here. the system failing after 400 years of failure. >> gloria brown marshall, laura coats, thank you. appreciate it. coming up next retired marine corps general mattis. the first defense secretary breaking his silence, weighing in on how he believes the president is failing the country at this moment. this is an extraordinary development to have the former defense secretary, the mad dog mattis as the president used to love calling him. talking about how the president's dividing and miss using the nation's armed forces. retired army four star wesley clark joibz us to talk about that. later kareem abdul-jabbar, what he sees in what we're all watching unfold.

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there's breaking news tonight that raises all kinds of uncomfortable questions about what country we are living in and what it might become. don't take that from me. that's from president trump's former secretary of defense marine four-star general, a man who dedicated his life to protecting, serving the constitution and the country. i say this about mattis because it's inevitable the president will soon directly or indirectly

through minions smear general mattis. very possibly his current defense secretary as well. a lot of people wonder why general mattis lasted so long with this president or how he lasted so long, and why he never spoke up publicly. well, he has certainly spoken up now and it's impossible to overstate the intensity and the stunning nature of this rebuke. writing the atlantic about the president's crowd clearing and erratic walk in order to pose with the bible, a book he's unlikely read, and say nothing of substance while standing and preening in front of st. john's episcopal church, mattis wrote, i have watched this week's unfolding events angry and appalled. i swore an oath to support and defend the constitution. never did i dream that troops taking that same oath would be ordered under any circumstance to violate the constitutional rights of their fellow citizens, much less to provide a bizarre photo op for the elected commander in chief with military leadership standing alongside. he goes on to liken this moment

to the one 76 years ago this week as troops, including some from the unit stationed outside washington right now, prepared for d-day. some were expected to be returning home tonight, but now "the washington post" is reporting that they're not. elements of the same 82nd airborne that parachuted into france, i'm quoting mattis, instruction given by the military department to our troops before the normandy invasion reminded soldiers the nazi slogan for destroying us was divide and conquer. our american answer is in union there is strength. we must summon that unity to surmount this crisis, confident that we are better than our politics. donald trump, mattis writes, is the first president in my lifetime who does not try to unite the american people, does not even pretend to try. instead, he tries to divide us. we are witnessing the consequence of three years of this deliberate effort. we are witnessing the consequence of three years without mature leadership.

that's the former defense secretary who served under this president. now, as you might expect this is bound to get the president's attention. in anticipation of the attacks he's sure to level against general mattis, here's a sampling of past praise the president has had for mattis. though even at the time he said this stuff, we knew the president knew nothing about mattis other than his nickname. >> we are going to appoint mad dog mattis -- [ cheers and applause ] -- as our secretary of defense. >> jim is a marine corps four-star general. >> i have a general who i have great respect for, general mattis. >> general mattis is the living embodiment of the marine corps motto, semper fideli circumstances. >> he's devoted his life to serving his country. >> he led the sole battalion in

operation desert strong. >> i think he's a terrific person, he's doing a fantastic job. >> mad dog plays no games. >> he's a man of honor. >> american people of fortunate that a man of this character and integrity will now be the civilian leader atop the department of defense. >> the backdrop to what general mattis wrote is the drama surrounding the man who now occupies the chair he left, the president's current defense secretary mark esper. at his briefing today, esper said he did not support using active duty troops against protesters as the president has threatened to do, and he said he regretted using the word battle space to describe american cities. he talked about dominating the battle space. the streets of america. the president, as you know, has urged governors to use national guard forces to, "dominate city streets and he warned he would send in the regular military if they don't. that threat seemed to be dissipating much of the day. according to the post, not any long e. it's a threat other officials are speaking out

about. former joint chiefs of staff mike mullen writes, it sickened me jed to see security personnel, including members of the national guard forcibly and violently clearing the path through lafayette square to accommodate the president's visit outside st. john's church. i have to date been reticent to speak out on issues surrounding president trump's leadership, but we are at an inflection point. the events of the past weeks have made it impossible to remain silent. admiral mullen spoke out after seeing the current chairman of the joint chiefs, the man in uniform right there, the joint chiefs general mark milley alongside the president in battle fatigues, no less, not the dress uniform normally worn when meeting at the white house. seeing the defense secretary taking part in the church photo op, that's the defense secretary in between those two. secretary esper at first denied he even knew where he was going. then he admitted today, yeah, he knew he was going to the church, but not that it would be a photo op. no, no, no, certainly not that. a short time later he and chairman milley spent about

2 1/2 hours at the white house and now the troops that were expected to head home are reportedly not. today white house press secretary kelly mcenany compared the president's publicity stunt to winston churchill touring the blo bombed out streets of london. let's pause for a moment. kayleigh mcenany, used to be a commentator at cnn, a person of strong faith. maybe she believes what she's saying. but comparing the president of the united states to winston churchill? winston churchill was a child of privilege. on that sense, yes, you can compare them. donald trump was born into privilege. he was able to start his business because he got a lot of money from his daddy. church hill joined the military, saw combat. the president avoided all that, as we know. bone spurs, we're told. church hill wrote books. the president -- the president, he's had books ghostwritten for him. church hill was actually a p.o.w. he was a war correspondent after

leaving the military during the war. he was taken as a p.o.w. he escaped. the president says he doesn't like p.o.w.s. he likes those who haven't been captured. church hill was one of the greatest great oest oraters of modern times. he stood in front of a burned church holding a bible and he couldn't think of anything to say. burned out church, a bible in his hand, the country divided, and he couldn't think of anything to say. except to ask a bunch of other white guys from his cabinet to stand around him and just take a picture. chur churchill rallied britain in the face of evil. he united the world against it. this president praises tyrants.

he seeks to emulate them. the press secretary compares the two men -- i mean, she's right. they're both leaders of countries. they're both old. they're both large. and both walk through rubble. one did it for his country. trump did it for himself. more now on all this, let's go to cnn political analyst and white house correspondent maggie haberman. cnn's chief white house correspondent jim accosta and general clark. i want to start with you. i wonder what your reaction is hearing from former secretary mattis. >> very pleased to see his statement. i do think this is a very important time in america. many of us have wondered why, why jim hasn't spoken out sooner, but he was waiting. he bided his time and he spoke out at a critical time. i think he'll have a big impact. but he didn't only talk about this event. he talked about dividing

america. he talked about immature leadership. this is a very broad powerful statement, and he's one of the few people who can really speak on authority because he was there in the president's cabinet for almost two years. he saw it firsthand. >> and now, i mean, he's clearly going to have his reputation attacked by this president who will, you know, has already labeled himself a failure and things like that. general, can you talk about the reticence military leaders have about speaking out in a case like this? because to hear from mattis, to hear from mullen, you don't -- >> it's very hard, anderson, to get military leaders to speak out. occasionally someone will run for office as i did and have to speak out. but mostly they don't speak out. and that's just the tradition of the military being apolitical. they want to be apolitical.

it doesn't matter whether it's democrats, republicans or somebody else in the office of the presidency. the military must be loyal. but there comes a time when the retired military, at least, i believe does have an obligation to speak out. in 1965, the retired army -- former army chief of staff general could have spoken out and warned america, that his studies a decade earlier showed it would take a million americans to deal with vietnam. they asked him to speak out. he said no. so it's important what general mattis said. he spoke out. he's going to have an impact, when our other former chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, like marty dempsey and mike mullen, when they speak out, america should listen. these are men who don't speak out easily. they hold in out of respect for the current leaders, out of concern for the troops that are

in uniform. but when they speak out, it's from the heart and they speak from experience. >> jim accosta, has the white house responded about this criticism? >> reporter: not yet. i did talk to a trump advisor, trump campaign vitzadvisor earl this evening. i don't think this is a huge shot in the dark he's going to respond with great anger. this adviser was observing the president loves his generals is how this adviser describes it. he liked having people like general mattis around, the former chief of staff john kelly, the former national security adviser h.r. mcmaster. but, anderson, on a day when the president himself compared himself to abraham lincoln, on a day when the press secretary, as you mentioned, compared the president to winston churchill, former secretary mattis is making some very dark comparisons. at one point during this statement, he talks about how instructions were given to soldiers storming normandy during world war ii and how they

were told, they were reminded of how the nazis believed in divide and conquer, and how the american answer to that was, in union there is strength. and the trump adviser i spoke with this evening said that will leave a mark with the president, being -- having a reference dropped in this statement to the nazis is not going to sit well with this president. i think general mattis, former secretary mattis has gotten the president's attention and we're certainly going to hear from the president, i think, in short order. >> maggie, i'm wondering what you make of this. the president obviously has criticized mattis several times since he left the administration. also, i'm just wondering about that and then i want to ask you about the whole bunker stuff because the president talked about that today. >> sure, anderson. look, i think two things can be true at once. i think this can be a pretty extraordinary statement from jim mattis who as jim saithe genera

tried to stay out of the fray. to his detriment he's been criticized for it. he is clearly speaking out and i don't think this is the extent of what he would like to say, but it is a pretty dramatic statement, is an extraordinary moment. whether it will matter, whether there is anyone in the country who will be influenced at this point, will hear it or breakthrough at this moment of incredible turmoil when so much is going on and there are three simultaneous crises, i don't know. i think it remains to be seen. i am confident the president is going to attack mattis. i expect that he will attack him in the manner in which he has attacked him before. and as we discussed here, that gets pretty old. people are familiar with how the president attacks people. it doesn't penetrate. i think the president, it's more than that he's angry. i think the president is going to be wounded by this. this is an actual general. the president likes to project this image of strength, but he has had trouble making that clear in his own resume and i think this is going to, going to pearce him in a way few events have. >> i want to ask you about the

bunker. just for a minute, i want everybody -- these pictures on the screen are just extraordinary. i mean, i know we've seen these kind of pictures of peaceful protests all day long. maybe it starts to look like wallpaper or just, oh, that's what's happening. these are just incredible images. i mean, look at the diversity of people out in these streets, washington, d.c., los angeles, new york, minneapolis, cities large and small. you have people outside risking their own lives in the midst of a pandemic. look at this picture, atlanta. this is what's happening day after day nat united statin the of america. i know things are bad, there's looting. i live in new york city. i've seen it down where i live, too. but this is really what has happened. this is the outpouring of

americans that is occurring here. yes, some are taking advantage of it and, yes, that is being dealt with. but this is the news. this is the headline. and it may be doesn't make headlines like violence makes headlines. and maybe that's a commentary on society and us. but these pictures are just extraordinary. a thin line of military and police and blocks and blocks of peaceful citizens. sorry, maggie, to interrupt you. maggie, let me just ask you -- sorry, jim, go ahead. >> reporter: the only thing i was going to say was just to the point that you're making is that i think, you know, perhaps history will be written a different way after all this is said and done. but i think the president missed a massive historic opportunity this week. he decided to respond by force. he decided to throw his weight around in ways he thought would impress the generals and people like the generals when, in fact, i think had he taken the

opportunity to show these protesters that he understands what he's going through and, yes, perhaps show some of them some love, that this entire situation might have turned out differently this week and he might be in a better position politically. but i do think -- and general mattis gets to this in his statement -- the president chose to divide in this moment instead of unite. and that's why, you know, it just seems to be a massive missed opportunity for the president. >> leaving people -- >> can i just say something there? we really need to stop referring to this as a choice the president is making. i agree there have been times where he has been able to show a different side of himself or at least a side -- he is capable of -- lots of people talk about he's capable of acts of kindness, he's different behind the scenes. that's not what he has done. when somebody doesn't do that at almost every single turn, you have to stop thinking it's a choice. i don't know why it is this is the way that he has reacted, bull this is how he reacted.

i don't think there was ever going to be another option for him in this moment. and the thing that i have heard from a number of people around him over the last several days is they are privately acknowledging and they are not doing it publicly, but they are privately acknowledging that the limitations on his ability to be in this job are apparent in moments like this. >> and just, maggie, the president today is denying that he ever was rushed to the bunker and that he was going to the bunker. he claims he went to the bunker for an inspection. it seems laughable to me that all of a sudden on a day when the country is being ripped apart that he would decide, oh, yeah, it's a good day to have an inspection of that bunker i keep hearing about. >> it was interesting, anderson, he said -- >> if i could. >> i just want to get maggie on this because she is reporting on it. maggie? >> reporter: what he said was it was a false report. it was not a false report. we were correct and other people confirmed our reporting. peter baker on our reporting. the president was whisked down to the bunker after a status at

the white house was changed from yellow to red because there had been a barricade or we had been told -- maybe there are other things we weren't told. there was one barricade pierced near the treasury department. this was not -- the president said it was a false story. he said well, i was there 2 1/2 times, something to that effect. he just went down to inspect it on friday. what he's saying is not true. i understand he was very angry about the reporting. but, you know, his issues are not our issues and our job is to report. >> churchill spent time in a bunker. >> right. >> it's not like -- >> it speaks to the situation. it doesn't speak -- it's not talking about him. it's talking about a moment in time and a moment in the presidency. >> given his bone spurs, it must have been very painful to be rushed down to a bunker. you could almost give him props for being willing to undergo that pain. but the idea that he views it as a sign of failure of his masculinity, that just seems so absurd to me.

and the fact that he then decides to lie to the american people about it seems absurd as well. i'm out of time, way over time. maggie haberman, jim accosta, general clark. thank you very much. we'll have more on the protests. we'll talk to kareem abdul-jabbar who wrote a great piece in the l.a. times i want to talk to him about. i thought was really beautifully written and important, so many important thoughts in it. we'll talk to him when we return. effortless is the lincoln way. so as you head back out on the road, we'll be doing what we do best. providing some calm amidst the chaos. with virtual, real-time tours of our vehicles as well as remote purchasing. for a little help, on and off the road. now when you buy or lease a new lincoln, we'll make up to 3 payments on your behalf.

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now that's simple, easy, awesome. transfer your service in minutes, making moving with xfinity a breeze. visit xfinity.com/moving today. want to turn our focus back to the protests occurring in cities across america tonight. and not the protests so much as the reasons behind the protests.

and what we all see when we look at peaceful protests. after minnesota's attorney general announced new charges today in the death of george floyd, tonight i spoke to minnesota attorney general keith ellison. he says his office will prepare, organize and put on the best case possible. but, quote, at the end of the day it's really in the hands of the jury. joining me now is nba legend kareem abdul-jabbar. thank you so much for being with us. as i said you wrote a piece in the l.a. times a few days ago i thought was so well done. i wanted to talk to you about it. first, though, i'd like to get your thoughts on the news the other three officers involved in mr. floyd's death, his murder, have been charged. and former, ex-officer chauvin, his charges have been upgraded to second degree murder. is that a step toward justice in your mind? >> i think it's certainly a step toward justice. and i think that just the fact that the governor and the mayor really acted quickly and decisively and set a tone for how we should react to this horrible incident.

>> it's so interesting to me how different people in this country react differently to not only what they saw in the video of the killing of mr. floyd, but also what they see in the videos we're showing right now, protests, people protesting on the streets. you wrote in the l.a. times -- a bit of a long paragraph, but i think it's an important one i want to read. you wrote, yes, protests often are used as an excuse for some to take advantage just as when fans celebrating the hometown sports team championship burn cars and destroy store fronts. i don't want to see stores looted or even buildings burned. but african americans have been living in a burning building for many years, choking on the smoke as the flames burn closer and closer. racism in america is like dust in the air. it seems invisible even if you're choking on it until you let the sun in. then you see it's everywhere. as long as we keep shining that light, we have a a chance at cleaning it where ever it lands, but we have to stay vigilant because it's always still in the air. can you just talk about how different people see different

protests and why you wrote that paragraph? >> well, i wrote that paragraph because i tried to set up an analogy that people could understand. you know, there's another way of describing it. it's like, you know, the united states is this wonderful bus with great seats in the front of the bus. but as you go further to the back of the bus, the seats get worse and the fumes from the exhaust leak in and really wreak with people's health and their lives. but the people at the front of the bus, they have no complaints. it's kind of like that. when i described the dust in the air, that dust accumulates in the lives of black americans, and it eliminates all the mechanics of democracy. democracy doesn't work for us. we are last fired -- last hired, first fired. we have a different set of

expectations from the criminal justice system. so many ways of american life discriminate against black americans. and finally, i think we've come to a moment of clarity here where it can result in such a horrible incident that we saw with mr. floyd's death. >> president obama spoke today about -- i'm paraphrasing because his words are far mor l eloquent than my memory of them. essentially channeling the energy that we are seeing, this extraordinary outpouring and sustained outpouring to real systematic change. and i wonder how you think that is possible. i mean, do you think it's possible? marching in the streets is extraordinarily powerful. where does it lead to that makes real change? >> i think it's possible, anderson, if it leads to forming

a political will within our country to do something. something has to be done. it's not enough to say, that was terrible and my thoughts and prayers are with you. that's not getting anything done. we have to, we have to change the circumstances. it's been almost 30 years since the rodney king incident. did you see that as a routine traffic stop? if any white american had a relative get drunk and get stopped by the police and had that relative beaten like that, those people would be up in arms. but yet 30 years pass, nothing's changed. there have been more dead black americans. they died for no reason. misdemeanors. eric garner died because he was selling cigarettes illegally. you know, these are terrible things to take someone's life over and we have to get to the point where we have to do something about it.

this will cause the political will, maybe, to grow and maybe we can get something done. >> i mean, you talk about eric garner. mr. floyd was accused, not convicted -- accused of passing a counterfeit $20 bill and the man is dead. when you say -- >> what was that about? passing a bad bill, you get killed for that? that's horrific. >> it is interesting to me how, you know, you also wrote and i think it was in the start of your article, about when perhaps a white reader was -- is looking at the protests and thinking, wow, they're not 6 feet apart and then seeing looting and thinking, that's terrible. and then that's going to hurt their cause. and maybe an african-american reader is seeing the same images and thinking something different. and i just thought that sort of putting yourself in the mind of different people watching this, it's a really interesting thing because i do think we all --

it's why eyewitness testimony is problematic. we all see different things in the same images. >> we see different things. i've seen people who have no power to change things trying to get people to listen. i remember seeing a i remember seeing a very significant sign on display in minneapolis. two of them. the first one said, "can you hear us now?" and the second one said, "not all black people are criminal. not all white people are racist. not all cops are bad. and ignorance comes in all colors." and, you know, we have to understand those realities and react in a sensible way. and, you know, it seems like maybe we've had a moment of clarity here where we can do that. and we can really make it so that bad cops do not have the leeway that they seem to have had for so long.

>> kareem abdul-jabbar, in addition to all your other accomplishme accomplishments, i think you're an extraordinary writer and i really appreciate you coming on to talk tonight. thank you. >> thank viyou very much, anderson. i think you're done a great job covering all this. keep up the good work. >> i've got a very good team here, so i'm just a small part of it. thank you very much. just ahead -- >> you're welcome. >> -- a contrast in leadership. president obama's far more hopeful message to protesters today and what he says they need to do to make politicians listen. if you have moderate to severe psoriasis or psoriatic arthritis, little things can become your big moment. that's why there's otezla. otezla is not an injection or a cream. it's a pill that treats differently. for psoriasis, 75% clearer skin is achievable, with reduced redness, thickness, and scaliness of plaques. for psoriatic arthritis, otezla is proven

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just a short time ago former president obama made his first on-camera comments about the protest and death of george floyd. the comments came during a virtual town hall held by my brothers' keeper alliance, a program the obama foundation. they were very hopeful, positive, and addressed not only the tragedy that has happened but the change that could come as a result. >> in some ways as tragic as these past few weeks have been, as difficult and scary and uncertain as they've been, they've also been an incredible opportunity for people to be awakened due to some of these

underlying trends and they offer an opportunity for us to all work together to tackle them. to bring about real change. we both have to highlight a problem and make people in power uncomfortable, but we also have to translate that into practical solutions and laws that can be implemented and we can monitor and make sure we're following up on. there is a change in mindset that's taking place. a greater recognition that we can do better. and that is not as a consequence of speeches by politicians. that's not the result of, you know, spotlights in news articles. that's a direct result of the activities and organizing and mobilization and engagement of so many young people across the

country. >> joining me now is former obama administration senior adviser and cnn political commentator david axelrod. cnn political commentator, former house member, bakari sellers. who's author of the memoir, "my country." david, you know president obama well, how he breaks things down point by point. i wonder what you thought of his address today. >> i thought it was great because it pointed out what is a fact. it's' easy to get swept up in te horrific nature in what we've seen, the despair of how the government's reacted, particularly how the president's reacted. listen, anderson, i've been around a long time. i'm old enough to remember 1968 and i've, as a young reporter i covered police brutality as an issue 47 years ago in the city of chicago. and i know how long we've been grappling with this issue and all that time i've never seen a moment like this where the

entire country seems to be focused on this, and he's right that young protesters have had a lot to do with it, but those protests also have been much more diverse than i ever remembered seeing. and there's a poll out today from reuters that said 64% of the country said they're sympathetic to the protesters and their message, despite everything that we've seen. so i think tease are hopeful signs and the question is, as he challenged these young people to think about, how do we translate that into at the local level changed policies that will make these kinds of incidents less and less common? and that is the big challenge of the moment. >> bakari, i'm wondereriing wha you thought of former president obama's comments and also the protests we've seen today. again, i just am so -- i just find these images so extraordinary. the peaceful name of these protests day after day and just the huge numbers of people involved. >> i think the consciousness of

the united states of america is awakening and i think the president 44 realized that. it reminded me of dr. king's "i have a dream" speech but not the rhythmic cadence of "i have a dream that one day we shall." it reminded me of the most important part of that speech in which he talks about the fierce urgency of now. think barack obama realizes that this moment we have to have that fierce urgency because my fear is that for most black folk the way this works, anderson, is that we have a death, we watch the video, we have pain, we take to the streets, we have a memorial, we grieve, and then we do it all over again. and barack obama realizes we have to break that cycle. we have to break that cycle because people are sick and tired of being sick and tired. i also -- i don't mean to be critical of barack obama or david axelrod or anybody else, but i do think the president realizes that in 2014 after ferguson, and we had the rise of black lives matter, we missed a

moment. now we have a moment again and i firmly believe the consciousness of the country has been awakened not because necessarily george floyd's death, but the fact that there was a knee on his neck for 8 1/2 minutes. i think the consciousness awoke after seeing two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, minutes of this man calling out for his mother, his dead mother, then going unconscious and him still having a knee in his neck. so now when black folk tell you we're harassed by police, you can truly believe it because me, you, david, nobody you know would treat another human being that way. so george floyd's life will never be in vain. i think the president wants to put action behind those words because of the fierce urgency of this moment. >> we're watching, obviously, scenes in new york city. as you know, there's now a curfew in new york, begins at 8:00 each night. it's now an hour into that curfew.

the protests continue. bakari sellers, david axelrod. thank queyou. the protests continue as does our coverage. chris cuomo joins us for "cuomo prime time." chris? >> i cannot let an important day like this go. we have charges in this big case. we have to celebrate the good things and the bad things that come in life, especially during hard times. you are a good friend and a great colleague, and this is your first birthday as a father. and even in the midst of crisis, we got a hold on to the sweet moments and remember the good things that happen because they make life worth living and i told you before and i will tell you again, your life will never be sweeter, will never mean more now that you have this little man, wyatt, in your life. happy birthday, brother. >> thank you, chris, i appreciate it. >> big anderson cooper. i'm chris cuomo. welcome to "prime time." we can't forget the sweet moments in life. they make us remember why life

is worth