going to need it. >> yeah, it was a good time to take an inspection of the bunker. first time. yeah, sure, do that. today on fox news, attorney general barr put that absurdity to rest. saying, quote, things were so bad that the secret service recommended the president go down to the bunker. wow, he just said it. i like that the president lies about something and they don't get their lies straight. let's turn it over to chris for "cuomo prime time." you would think they'd coordinate the lies. well, i mean, i don't know. >> at this point, lie, deny and defy. those are the three rules of divide and concur, and that's what they do. they tell different stories, as long as it's appeasing to the people they want to appease. and it makes our job all the more important, and you just did it perfectly. that's what matters. you showed it for what it is. anderson, i for one thank you for that. i am chris cuomo. welcome to "prime time."

thousands surrounding george floyd's casket today in houston on the eve of his funeral. the man charged with murdering him made his first court appearance outside minneapolis today. tonight we have the lawyer for thomas lane here, you'll see him on your screen. he's one of the other three officers charged with aiding and abetting murder. given how new a couple of these officers were, this prosecution is going to be trickier than first imagined. this lawyer says his client did not just stand by and watch floyd die. what is his case? and what is his proof? you'll hear tonight. first, you've got this new movement growing within the movement for change. defund police in america, or at least in minneapolis. that's the city council in minneapolis talking, they have the votes to do it. but what will it mean?

let's ask council president lisa bender here tonight. ms. bender, thank you, for joining us on "prime time." >> thank you for having me. >> all right. let's get the messaging clear here. are you really calling for the disbanding of the police department? meaning it goes away? >> well, yesterday nine city councilmembers stood together with our community and pledged to rethink public safety in our community. and to acknowledge that the current minneapolis police department is not working to keep our community safe. and really what we pledged was to start a year long conversation with minneapolis residents to help us reimagine what public safety looks like as we make those short term fixes that are so clearly needed in our department. >> better, smarter, safer, those are things that are all clearly needed. the controversial part comes in

the, you can't just get rid of it right now. you wouldn't have anything. and i heard you asked about this. what happens if somebody comes in the middle of the night and i call. and you answered the question that well, that desire speaks to a privilege. yes, but not white privilege. white privilege, black privilege, any color privilege. we need police. do you agree? >> i agree that our number one priority is the safety of every single person in our community. yes, we still have a police department today. we have had a police department for 150 years. as we look forward into the future, the answer is yes, absolutely, if something is happening there needs to be someone to call. and the answer is yes that absolutely, we need to make sure that every single person in our community feels safe, but we have a crisis of confidence in our police department. our university of minnesota, the local school board and parks district, major employers in our city, a local law firm have

all ended their relationships with our police department in the last week. so we need to make sure that when you call, that the public has confidence that that department, that that system is keeping people safe. that's our urgent priority in minneapolis. to make sure that every single resident of our city feels safe, is safe and that we do start to address the systems of racial injustice that folks are out in the streets protesting. >> right. >> that so many community leaders are speaking out and speaking up against. >> right. but, of course, there could be no worse crisis than you calling, because you need help and nobody answers. that's why i'm asking you that. you're getting beaten over the head with something that seems ridiculous to people. they're going to get rid of the police and they don't know what they're going to replace it with? there is nothing worse for a community. so i wanted to give you a chance to clarify. politically, it's playing like democrat. you have the president hitting every democrat over the head with the suggestion he can, and

it seems to be frustrating its own purpose. let's talk about what you want to change when you say defund. is this about not starving the police of money because you're probably going to have communities who want more police in terms of more safety, more security, but how? so are you talking about how money is spent? >> right. so we have started a lot of the work to help build new systems in our city that are keeping everyone safe. we've looked at every reason that folks call 911. why are people in minneapolis calling for help? and we're starting to pair what's the right response to those calls? in the short term that helps our police officers focus on the work that they're trained to do, while we have a better response to people who have a mental health crisis or a physical health crisis, and we also know that the system of policing isn't working for a lot of victims of crime. we have thousands of rape kits

that have gone untested. we need to improve our response to all kinds of different violations of public safety, because again that trust in the system is so eroded that our community is across the board. nine councilmembers from across the city standing together saying, we need to make deeper change than we have in the past. >> you have to figure out what that looks like. 9 of 13 means you have a mayor veto proof majority already. the mayor because of the sound of the messaging here, it seems, and he'll argue for himself says he's not in favor of this, that he doesn't want to disband the police. he doesn't want to defund the police. what do you make of his position? >> we worked together for six years. many times a day, we worked together.

we will work together. the crisis of confidence in our police department needs to be urgently addressed by every single leader in our city. we have the university of minnesota walking away from the police department. this isn't the opinion of a few councilmembers. this is a broad swath of our community saying that our current system isn't working to keep people safe and we need to yeah, in the short-term work through the state process. the state human rights department has brought legal action against our department. working with the police department. we should look at budget, community safety, our city's charter, and understand ways we can adjust our charter, which would include potentially going to a vote of the people to make some of these longer term changes. so the commitment that we made a real. the work is serious, and it builds on years of investment in our community, and those answers will absolutely be made in partnership with our community with lots of community engagement. >> when you say some day being

police-free, that sounds aspirational in terms of a utopian concept where nobody is committing any crime, but as long as these communities are being preyed upon, both from within and without, there's going to have to be good men and women willing to step up to keep people safe. >> i think the idea of having a police-free future is very aspirational, and i am willing to stand with community members who are asking us to think of that as the goal because so many folks in our community have seen us work on reform. they watched jamar clark be killed, we worked on reform. they watched justine damon be killed. we got a new police chief. we did more reform. now watching george floyd die in that way with four police officers involved is so heartbreaking for our community that across our city, people are asking us for change. >> and you -- you're taking

change very seriously, but i'm saying, the way it's been interpreted is this council president and these other eight people, they want to get rid of the police, what's going to happen to minneapolis? what will that mean for st. paul? they're going to be the only police force? they're going to have to answer all the calls? you're arguing tonight, you're being taken out of context? this is being taken in a way that is more extreme than you intended? >> the commitment that we made is clearly a long-term commitment. our police department has been in place for 150 years. we cannot take 150 years to solve this problem, but we absolutely will need to build up those systems of public safety at the highest priority. as the very first priority along with getting more accountability in our police department today. >> you see having police, it's just how they do their job? who they are, how they're accountable. how they are transparent? those are the things you think need immediate work, but not in a way that's been said in the past, because it's never gotten done?

>> right, and we've done the training. we've done the -- looking at our use of force policy, we shifted leadership, we've done a lot of those things. i think the ask from our community is to look bigger and broader and understanding how investing in our community -- our community that is suffering from coronavirus like so many in the country. the new economic crisis that has come with that. even before that we had a housing crisis like so many others. our communities is asking us to look at public safety holistically, having access to to a home or not is an issue for so many in our community. having access to health care. so i think when we see leaders across the country making those connections between community investments and safety, that's the conversation that we've been having in minneapolis for many years. so in our small city of 430,000 people, we are listening to and responding to our community and the specific

things that are happening in minneapolis. >> good. president bender, i'm glad to have you here, city council president, because i want to be sure people are getting the argument straight. and police is different than no police. i wanted to give you the fairness of your own argument. good luck going forward. we'll be watching the changes. >> thank you. >> what are you doing in that interview? you testing the argument or helping the argument? both. why? don't we all get the need for better in minneapolis and across this country? and on several levels, nobody should think that policing is the whole answer. it's just one aspect of an unequal society of injustice. it's just the messaging of this. get rid of the police doesn't play well to form any kind of consens consensus. the question is what do you do then? what's the how? the mayor as we discussed there, says he doesn't want to defund police. here's how that message played with protesters.

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interesting situation in minneapolis. the city council has the votes to take action on disbanding the police, but if you were watching the lead of the show, i don't think it means what it sounds like. at least the city council president doesn't seem as severe as the headline would read. the mayor still doesn't like the plan. now how does what play? not well with protesters. at a weekend rally, mayor jacob frey rejected calls to abolish the police department. this is what he got. [ crowd chanting ] >> go home, jacob, go home! go home, jacob, go home! >> shame, shame, shame! >> mayor jacob frey joins us

now. welcome back to "prime time." it's the job you wanted. it's the job you have. how did you interpret what happened on that stage? >> well, there was a larger group of peaceful protesters that came to my home, and they demanded to speak with me. and my rule of thumb throughout has been be open, be honest, be transparent. and so yes, i came outside, i sat down with the protest and they called me up and asked me if i was willing right there to commit to getting rid of the police. and i was honest. if we're talking about massive cultural shift in the way our police department does business, i'm on board. if we're talking about major structural reform that pushes back on the horrid nature of how our police departments have treated black and brown communities, i am fully on board. but if we're talking about abolishing the entire police

department, i was honest. that's not where i am. >> now, i had city council president bender on before you. and she seemed to suggest in her answers that the headline exaggerates what they're trying to do. she said you've had 150 years of a police force, she can't take 150 years to fix it, but there will be police, people will be kept safe. there seems to be politics at play here. it's very powerful. so many people in your community are right to be outraged at the police, which is why an idea like getting rid of them sounds good. what would happen to those communities if they didn't have respectful police force, and i know respectful is the key word, to keep them safe? >> you're right, and people are right to be frustrated right now. they're right to be angry and sad and upset. let's be very real here. george floyd was murdered by one

of our police officers. we need to recognize that and acknowledge it. the next step is to harness all of that energy and anger and sadness that we have, and commit to realtime real reforms, if we are really going to tackle the elephant in the room, if we're not going to mess around with these -- around the edges policy items, we got to be talking about the police unit. we got to be talking about the collective bargaining agreement, we've got to be talking about the mandatory arbitration system at the state. we are committed to those. i am committed to those. >> mayor -- >> yes? >> let's get beyond where people meet this kind of discussion, right? this is nuanced stuff that you're talking about, but it's also very obvious and true in a lot of cities. this isn't about union, anti-union. you hear from political leaders very often, the union keeps us from doing it. in buffalo right now, where the older white guy was pushed

backwards and he fell and cracked his head open. the mayor there said the union, the union is killing me on this. the union won't let us get rid of guys like we want to. the union is pushing these officers to resign. they have too much power. so let's talk about that for a second. why is the union relevant here? the outside argument would be, well, they take care of the officers and they make sure that guys like you don't underpay them and over work them. why are they the problem? >> well, first, let's consider the fact that progressive mayors and chiefs for 10 or 15 or more years have been thwarted in a lot of the reforms that they've wanted to make by one of several areas. first, any -- a lot of these policy items that they want to push forward that. >> first have to negotiate with the police union. noshd in other words, if the police union doesn't want it, it's not in the contract.

second, this is the most important piece, when you talk about culture shift, you're talking about people and personnel, and if the chief or i are prevented from disciplining and terminating officers because of the system that's in place, that inhibits the culture shift from happening, and we've seen it again and again and again where officers are discipline order terminated, but then they work their way through the process. they go up to arbitration, and some where in the range of 45% of those cases are then sent back to the police department. so we don't have in some cases the ability to see that culture shift through. so if we're really real about reforms, let's be precise in our terminology. let's be precise in our words, and then let's get the reform done. i think there is the momentum now to do it. >> well, look, this is tricky business. why? because that's hard and it's not even your biggest problem, policing is not your biggest problem. it showed its ugliest side with george floyd, but it's about education.

it's about economic opportunities. it's whether or not your lenders are treating those communities fairly. it's about whether employers are. it's about whether they're getting priced out of insurance, because all of this collection of issues creates poverty, creates criminality, creates interaction with police. you know all this. very tough to fix. that's why extreme measures can be appealing. do you think this city council is going to abolish the police force? >> i don't want to speak for the city council on what they will or will not do. i saw the release they put out, i saw the verbiage that was used. and i'll leave that to them to discern and explain. but i know where i am. i'm committed to this reform. and by the way, so is our chief, and he has my full support. our chief is someone that literally sued the minneapolis police department for racial discrimination and won. now he's our chief, he's chock full of integrity.

he is trying to instill in the officers the sense of compassion and responsibility and procedural justice that we need. and he talks about it being a measure of planting seeds. you know, sometimes it takes a while for those seeds to grow, but right now. right now we collectively have the opportunity to make quick reforms. >> people don't want seeds. they want you to uproot a big ass tree from somewhere else and plant it in their community. they do not want seeds, it takes too long. and the waiting time is paid for in poverty and pain. what do you think you can get done near term for your community? >> right now we do have some levers that we did not traditionally have. we have a tro that we're working with the state on right now, partnering hand in hand. that can give us the tools to get some of these measures done

that were previously in many cases impossible. we're taking action on the policy items we can. that we have at our disposal, that the city can do unilaterally. we're making sure we're pushing back on some of these union policies that have prevented us from getting reform done. and ultimately, yes, i think we need to be looking at arbitration as well which is through the state. >> this is tough stuff. nobody said it would be easy. remember the main rule of politics. you already know it well. "politicians act more out of fear of consequence than they do out of good conscience." it's not being cynical, it's being practical. if this community stays together and votes together on what it wants, change will come, or there will be a new batch of people trying to do it. >> well, change needs to come. >> has to. has to. you cannot stay where you are right now. and we will be watching, and we're always here to give you a platform to make the case. mayor jacob frey, good luck. >> thank you so much, chris. >> all right.

look, the problem is intractable for two reasons. you don't have everybody on board wanting to fix it. i'm not talking about the politicians, i'm talking about the people in the community. everybody's got to be on the same page, the haves and the have-nots. then it's about changing the policies and going after the politicians that don't change them the way you want. that is about having people come together. the answers are easy. if the will is there to force them. politicians act out of fear of consequence more often than good conscience. another big story we're taking on uniquely tonight. the lawyer for one of the four fired officers charged in george floyd's death. he says his newly minted officer client did what he thought was right when derek chauvin had a knee on george floyd's neck for nearly nine minutes. why? why does he believe that his client was doing the right thing?

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a judge today set derek chauvin's bail at $1.25 million in the death of george floyd. the other officers are due in court for their next hearing later this month. they include timothy lane, the officer highlighted in this video, helping chauvin pin floyd to the ground for almost nine minutes. lane's attorney claims george floyd was resisting arrest and that his client suggested rolling floyd over while chauvin was kneeling on his neck. that lawyer is earl gray. and he joins us now. counselor, thank you for joining us. >> good evening.

the first question is an obvious one, what do you know that we don't know. we don't see floyd resisting, and we don't hear anything from your client. so what do you have access to that we don't? >> number one, i have viewed the body camera of my client throughout this arrest and restraining mr. floyd. besides that i've interviewed my client. my client has given a complete statement of what he did to the bureau of criminal apprehension. he also gave a statement to the sergeants right at the scene as to what he did. he was not hiding anything. he thought he was following the protocol of the minneapolis police department in assisting in the arrest of mr. floyd. >> council -- >> council -- let's take it one

step at a time. let's take it one step at a time. >> sure. >> i know this isn't directly germane to your case, but this has implications in the courtroom, for your client as well. for transparency purposes. why shouldn't the public be seeing this body camera footage? and what do you believe the community would think it doesn't think now if it did have access to what you have access to? >> well, i can't speak for the community, but if they saw the full body camera on my client, i believe that they would have a different opinion, particularly if they had any knowledge of what police procedure is and how they should proceed on a felony arrest. particularly when the individual they are arresting is under the influence of some kind of drug, which was clearly evident in this arrest situation.

>> clearly evident how? with what we saw counselor, you have to give us the benefit of what we've seen. you don't see floyd being violent or hostile or throwing people around. and when he's on the ground for many minutes, he's not moving at all, except to ask for help, what are we missing. >> well, i said that he was clearly under the influence of a drug, which he was because of the autopsy. and you don't see any violent movement. but if you saw the body camera, you would know that when my client after -- when he went up to see mr. floyd to talk to him, mr. floyd did not show his hands. he put his right hand down below the seat, which is clear evidence from my client that he might be going to grab a gun or hide drugs. my client told him, let me see both of your hands and he pulled out his gun. there was a pause.

he didn't show his hands right away, but then he put both of his hands on the steering wheel. as soon as he did that, mr. cuomo, my client put his gun in his toledo holster. they then took mr. floyd out of his vehicle, because they're going to arrest him. and he resisted leaving his vehicle. they finally got him out of his vehicle. it wasn't a violent resistance, but it was not a kind of nonresistance that an individual should do when a police officer is arresting him. he should get out of his vehicle and follow the orders of the police officer. he didn't go that. once they get him out of the squad car, they told him to put his hands on his head. he did. and then they tried to put his hands -- that's what they're supposed to do, they went to put his hands behind his back to handcuff him. and then he resisted again. he didn't want that, once they got the handcuffs on him. they then directed him over and

set him down on the sidewalk and went over to investigate the other two individuals that were in the squad car, who are now in the -- mr. floyd's car. they're now out on the sidewalk. in any event after they talked to them, they're going to put mr. floyd in the squad car. they take him over to the squad car and he's walking slowly and right before they put him in the squad car he lays back and falls down. and he says, i got claustrophobia, i don't want to go in that squad car. i'm not going in the squad car, and he resists going in the squad car. so the police officers are trained that they have to put him in the back seat of the squad car. they're arresting him for a felony. they finally manage to get him in one side, the driver's side of the back seat and then that's when chauvin and his partner come to the other side and mr.

floyd shoved with his feet out toward where officer chauvin was and he ended up outside on the other side of the squad car by the sidewalk. >> four police officers couldn't get one guy who was handcuffed behind his back into a squad car? >> yes, well, they did get him in there, but it wasn't easy, because he was fighting, he was handcuffed, but he's 6'2". and he was -- he had a -- the build of a bodybuilder. >> but there are four cops. and counselor, they wind up with him on the floor with his hands behind his back. >> that's correct. >> and a knee on the neck, which is not proper training and protocol, as we both know. and anybody with common sense knows, for nine minutes with your client assisting. now, you don't need training to know that it was too much. the civilians there knew it was too much, they were asking them

not to do it. he was begging for them not to do it. is this about training? or is this about common sense? or is this about following blue over what was obvious in front of your eyes? >> well, you didn't let me finish, but -- >> go ahead. >> he did go outside the squad car. >> go ahead. >> pardon me? go ahead, please. >> okay. he's now on the sidewalk, and my client -- mr. floyd is kicking his legs, my client is holding his legs, mr. floyd is saying he can't breathe and those things, my client says to the 20 year veteran, shall we roll him over? >> he says that, i want the audience to hear that. this is the first time they've heard anything like this, they haven't been access to the body camera footage. in fact, i see you're organizing your papers as well. let's do this, counselor. i want to give you a full hearing on this. i want to give you a full

hearing. i'm going to take a quick break, and let's talk it through, because remember. remember the audience, mr. gray. they haven't heard any of this, they haven't seen george floyd doing any kind of resisting. and the state won't release the body camera footage for public consumption at this point. so i appreciate you talking us through it. let's take a quick break and take me through what you think matters in this case, okay? >> thank you.

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have earl gray, counselor for thomas lane, one of the former minneapolis police officers on trial now in the murder case of george floyd. counselor, thank you for staying through the break. you described -- because again, remember, and audience, you should know this. as counsel, mr. gray has seen the body camera footage. we haven't. remember that, counsel says that the body camera footage shows that george floyd resisted. we had all these different angles of him that show every aspect of this. not in full, but each phase, you never see any kind of

resentence resistance. you termed it the kind of resistance you shouldn't do that warranted this kind of treatment, in your opinion, counselor? >> i would call it a struggle, they're struggling with him. and once they got control of him, where my client was on the feet of mr. floyd and officer kueng was in the middle on his waist, and chauvin was on his shoulder or neck. >> neck. >> no matter what, well, that's questionable by the way. >> how? his knee is right on his neck in the video. >> it's questionable because look at the autopsy. there's not any injury to this man's hyoid bone or larynx. he doesn't suffer an asphyxiation. >> that's not what the autopsy of the family showed.

and the knee is clearly on his neck and the man is dead. so something happened, counselor. >> yes, yes, he had methamphetamine. i don't want to talk about the deceased, mr. floyd, because what i would like to tell you is while my client was on his feet, he says, let me get it here, while mr. floyd was moving, lane asked, should we roll him on his side. and officer chauvin said no. staying put where we got him. now, we've got a 20 year officer here and a four day officer in my client. he goes on, however, my client does, and says, i am worried about excited delirium or whatever. what is excited delirium? a situation where you've taken a lot of drugs and you get excited and you might die, that's what he was worried about. and then chauvin says to my client again, that's why we have him on his stomach.

then later, my client again says, do you want to roll him on his side? this is later, right before the ambulance comes and again he's not rolled on his side, the question, of course, the public is watching this. my client at his feet, he doesn't have a real good view of mr. chauvin -- or excuse me, mr. floyd of what mr. chauvin's doing. but if all these people say why didn't my client intercede, well, if the public is there, and they're in an uproar about this, they didn't intercede either. and my client's down where he can't really -- >> hold on, hold on, hold on, counselor. hold on, hold on. two things, one, you're laying on a man's legs, you've got a fine view of what's going on with that man. the other officer is literally a foot in front of you on his neck. two, i understand that he has a senior officer telling him what to do, but there's also a duty to intervene.

if the officer is doing something dangerous to a civilian, you have a duty to intervene. and he did not intervene. the idea that the civilians should have rushed in to a policing situation in the inner city of minneapolis against four police officers that have weapons and are kneeling on the neck of man, don't you think that's asking a little much of civilians and a little too little of your client? >> absolutely. i am not -- i just brought that up, what you say is that he's a foot away. >> i know. >> he's got his feet -- he was holding his feet down. mr. kueng was -- officer kueng was next, and then chauvin. you say he had a clear view. he didn't. >> i'm saying he's on the man's body, and he's screaming i want my brother, i'm going to die. i can't breathe, they're going to kill me, i can't breathe. >> he also said i can't breathe when they were trying to get him into the squad car.

he used that at that time too. so should the police believe it? i don't know. my client is holding his feet. but what's tell, what's compelling is when the ambulance comes, my client goes in the ambulance. four days on the force, goes in the ambulance and starts his own cpr, pushing down on his chest which he did for a lengthy period of time until they got the machine out, attempting to revive mr. floyd. he didn't want to see the man die. nobody did -- >> does your client think what that officer chauvin did was wrong? >> i can't talk about that, that's communication between my client and myself, which is confidential, mr. cuomo. >> yeah, i know. but you're also relaying things that you've learned from your client in terms of what he was seeing -- >> oh, no. i'm relaying things to what i saw in the video.

you look at the video when you get it. my camera's body video, and you'll see that. i'm not -- i'm not -- i'm not 100% as to the accuracy of -- what was that? >> nothing. it was your computer making a noise. don't worry about it. >> oh, i think i hit it. you got me excited. >> i'm sorry, counselor, look. a lot of people are excited about this. but i got to tell you, look, we got more we got to discuss. you got another fife minutes on you? >> sure. >> this matters too much. let's take another break. i want to give this a full conversation. this matters. there is too much on the line about what people perceive and what they have from their police and what should have been done here. stay with me. the tempur-pedic breeze makes sleep... feel cool. because the tempur-breeze transfers heat...

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and key nutrients you want. so you can have a daily multivitamin free of stuff you don't want. one a day natural fruit bites. a new way to multivitamin. ♪ first, just to the minnesota authorities. we have counselor ogray here, who is thomas lane attorney, one of the three officers that's going to be tried, along with derek chauvin, for the death of george floyd. you need to release the body

camera footage. counselor's in a position to tell us what he's seen. i appreciate that. you need to release the footage. people have to see this for themselves. i know there is a trial coming. i'm a lawyer. but this is about more than the court of law. let your citizens see what happened. now, counselor, that's not for you. that's politics. back to the law. your -- your client -- no, i know you can't. i'm not asking you to. i'm not asking you to, counselor. please. that was just talking to the officials, not you. apologies. now, help me understand. your client is on the legs, he doesn't think they're doing the right thing. he wants to turn mr. floyd on his side. chauvin says no. he asks again. chauvin says no. he does what he's told but he doesn't think it's right. there is a duty to intervene and there's also called human compassion. why didn't he get off the man, if he didn't think what they were doing was right? >> well, first of all, hindsight

is very accurate. he thought he was doing what was right, and he was trying to suggest, to chauvin, that maybe we should roll him on his side. he wasn't sure. he's got a 20-year veteran. and i know people say, well, so what? what do you mean so what? a police force is like the military. you have a guy with 20 years experience, and you have four days. the other fellow, officer keung, has three days. i mean, put yourself in that position, as a trained police officer, who was trained by this guy. that was one of his training officers. and don't use your hindsight. you think he's under the influence of a drug. he did everything that he thought he was supposed to do. and he did more than that. he went into the ambulance, and he is the one that was doing cpr. he's a man of compassion. he's not a violent person.

and i'd like to change the subject, just once here, to show you because you are a lawyer. i'm a lawyer. can you imagine the difficulty in getting my client a fair trial, the presumption of innocence and a unbiased jury? this mayor, tonight, here's what he said. mayor said that george floyd was murdered. that's what he said. by -- he didn't say four -- he said by one of our police officers. what kind of comment is that, by any politician, who has any semblance of fairness, to give a -- one of his employees, a police officer -- >> counselor. counselor, first of all, he is a politician. he's not doing the prosecution. it's going through the attorney general. but, listen, you've got to deal with the optics of what we've been able to see. you and i probably have never seen a case where someone kneels on the throat of somebody as

long as happened with george floyd. chauvin's attorney is going to have to answer for himself. but the reason i wanted you on here was to help people understand how something that looks so obviously wrong -- forget about training. you don't need training to be a human being. citizens weren't supposed to get involved. these officers were supposed to do what was right. and we know -- you and i know, from all that we've seen, minutes and minutes, with this guy with his knee on his neck, was wrong. but, counselor, i appreciate you being here to give us insight into what we haven't seen and heard and what is to come. >> one other -- just one real quick comment. >> yes, sir. >> i heard your father give a speech over 50 years ago and it was the best speech i ever heard. just to let you know. >> counselor, thank you very much. thank god he's not here to see this because i think he'd be shocked a shocked at what's going on in the system and what people are paying attention to. >> i agree. >> glad you think it's funny. listen. none of this is funny. but this is a window into what

you're going to see going forward. and there's nothing for us to be smiling about. that's what my father spent his whole life fighting against, and now we have to fight against it together. justice is fairness under law. you need to see what this case is going to be based on. there can be no fairness in this society, without it. i'll be right back.

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