. and thanks to all of you for being with us. "ac 360" with anderson cooper begins right now. good evening today on a day that saw heartbreaking testimony from the brother of george floyd, the president of the united states staked out a position on race in this country that falls short of what protesters are demanding. short of what lawmakers are now contemplating, short of where the national football league went in a remarkable last week and where nascar went today. the presence of the confederate flag runs contrary to a welcoming environment for all fans and the display will be prohibited from all nascar events and properties. the president as you know claims to be a big nascar fan. today he tweeted his opposition to renaming military bases named after men who fought under that very same flag. quoting now, the united states of america trained and deployed our heroes on the hallowed

grounds and won two world wars so my administration will not consider the renaming of these magnificent and fabled military institutions. just as an observation, the bases are indeed hallowed as he said but for the troops of all backgrounds, they trained. not the men that they are named after who took up arms against this country. and the president may not know this but those troops who fought and died in those two world wars, many of them were black. but they were not treated equally by the u.s. military at the time. it was not de segregated until 1948 and that only happened after a campaign of pressure by black americans. black americans fought and died in both world wars for a country at the time did not treat them as equal citizens under the law. and made them train at bases named after confederate generals. it is military commanders today who are now talking about replacing those confederate names. out of respect for the troops they now train. the president has opposed taking

down statues and some republicans in the house and senate today spoke of working with democrats to craft police reform legislation. members of the administration were out there denying a problem exists at all. here is larry kudlow when he was asked if he thought systematic racism existed in this country. >> i do not. >> at all? >> i do not. >> [ inaudible question ]. >> i will say it again. i do not. i think the harm comes when you have some very bad apples on the law enforcement side. what was done to mr. floyd was -- [ inaudible ] but i believe everybody in this country agrees with that. >> keep in mind the president has condemned george floyd's killing and re-tweeted attack on mr. floyd's character and slandered people protesting the killing and had peaceful

protesters assaulted for a photo op at a church. he held a so-called listening session today at the white house with a group of african-americans he described as friends and supporters and members of his administration. and he listened as one by one dear leader style they praised him for the job he's doing with regard to the black community. >> i am delighted, mr. president, that you have made it a priority to solve this problems. >> thank you, mr. president, for allowing us to come. >> i met president trump when he was a businessman. >> i think he's a natural leader. >> what we've done through your leadership is starting to break down that system and fight back. >> nothing short of historical. >> if you want to know the truth and you want us to dissect the obama economy, let's do it and your record would win the debate. >> there are many people that are on these online boards. they do support president trump. >> we appreciate everything

you've done and you've been aing. >> i know you can do it. will do it. >> will do it. >> so that is one sound bite for the day. and george floyd's brother before the house judiciary committee just a day after the funeral. >> a man who took his life, who suffocated him for eight minutes and 46 seconds, he still called him sir as he begged for his life. i can't tell you the kind of pain you feel when you watch something like that. when you watch your big brother who you looked up to your whole entire life die, die begging for his mom. i'm tired. i'm tired of pain. pain you feel when you watch something like that. when you watch your big brother who you looked up to for your whole life die, die begging for his mom. i'm here to ask you to make it stop.

stop the pain. stop us from being tired. >> joining us now is a member of the judiciary committee sheila jackson lee of texas. congresswoman, thank you so much for being with us. some republicans agree with democrats that -- i'll let you get the earpiece back in. >> thank you, anderson. i w i was taking off my mask. >> no worries. i'm all for social distancing. glad you're wearing a mask. i just took mine off. >> thank you. >> some republicans agree with democrats that policing in the united states needs to be reformed but president trump is silent on this issue focusing on what he calls law and order. it seems the protesters are calling for law and order, they just want equal protection under the law and that is what true law and order is about. i wonder what you make what the president has said and what he

hasn't said so far. >> this is in the back drop of the funeral and service in his hometown yesterday and when i spoke to the family and talked about the goodness that come out of wickedness, the weight of the world is on the floyd family and certainly on his younger brother who spoke his truth today and his pain. i don't know how anyone could listen to p.j. as we call him, mr. floyd, and his wife who was there with him today as well and ben crump who had a lot of cases like this, could even listen for just a moment and even beyond listening, looking at the video that pierces one's soul and say that we can't work together to do a reformational change that moves policing in america away from the warrior attitude and the burden that african-american men face, in unarmed, in confrontation and interaction

with police officers to the idea of guardian. that is what this legislation stands for. and it baffles me that the president of the united states and his staff can't take a deep dive into this legislation and realize that america just cannot continue on the pathway that it is and that is that african-american men, african-american people, girls or women included, suffer the brunt in many instances of the misconduct of bad cops on the streets of this community and this nation. >> larry kudlow, the white house economic adviser today said he doesn't believe there is systematic racism in the united states. now, he may actually believe that. i don't know if he does. but it just seems if there are large percentages of the population saying there is a real problem here, and just because you yourself, who may not be part of that group, has not experienced it for yourself, i would think it just seems like a respectful thing to do to not

talk so much and to maybe listen more to those who are crying out and saying this does exist and to listen to their experiences and say, you fknow what, maybe because i haven't experienced it myself, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. >> truth is truth. and what the president needs to do is exactly what you have said. but he has to broaden his spirit of those who he's willing to listen to, beyond the table that was there today. it is clear, we had some excellent witnesses today. i can't recall all of their names but i do want to mention the president of the urban league and he gave the history of lynching, during the history of slavery, 4,000 african-americans, black, slaves were lynched and then continuing on into jim crow-ism. that is a stain of racism that has never been eliminated and unfortunately there are 18,000

police departments in the united states. this legislation talked about accreditation and you have to pierce into this bias and this discrimination and law enforcement officers, the led of the major chiefs from houston, chief acevado acknowledged that black people, people of color have experienced this discrimination and everyone now understands black lives matter and this does not insult anyone else. black lives do matter and the president has to, in order to be an effective leader and healer and to be able to look at legislation that can be both the front end and the back end, yes, he's got to expand the voices he listens to. i would point him to the peaceful protesters, the young, black, hispanic, latin x, asian and african-americans who are in the streets peacefully, why doesn't he listen to those voices because he will find many stories that may not have

resulted obviously in death. but he will find the pain there. and i just want to say one thing that i'm a mother. and i said that yesterday. even as i'm talking to you, anderson, i have a sense of pain. because i could see the video right now of george floyd, imagine his family laying on that ground and crying out, i can't breathe. but i could also hear law-abiding citizens who just were reaching out to the police asking and begging them to stop. they didn't charge the police. they were begking him to stop and a 17-year-old girl got the video that will be with us for the rest of our lives. >> i appreciate your time. thank you. >> thank you for having me. now from chief political analysis gloria borger. it should seem that the president sees no need or any political benefit to address in any serious way racial and

systemic inequality that exist in this country. >> i think there is no interest in doing it on his part and i also there is no ability to do it on his part. just think about what happened today, anderson. you have nascar banning confederate flags. if the president had an interest in racial healing, he might tweet this is a great idea. thank you nascar. he knows a lot of his voters are nascar fans. he said he's a big nascar fan. why not applaud them. that is really easy, for doing the right thing. why not applaud your secretary of defense and your secretary of the army for saying they would at least entertain a discussion of changing the names of those military bases. but instead what he did do? he shut it down. so this is a president who can't really acknowledge the legitimate protesters and most all of them are. i have to say, the protesters

out there are calling for racial justice. he can't talk about them because what he wants to talk about, anderson, is law and order. and that gets in the way of the message which says to the protesters, i hear you, i understand you, i want to help fix this in that country. he just cannot give that speech. >> well also, the names of the bases, they were named at a time when black people were not serving equally and even though black people were volunteering to fight for this country, the very country which was treating them as second or third class citizens. >> that is right. and this is a president who talks about heritage a lot. he tweeted these names of these bases are a great part of our heritage. and i remember that after -- and i looked it up today, that he used the same word and tweeted it and said that -- complained

about the media and said that we were trying to hurt american heritage. and so in his own mind that is what it is. and by the way, he's talking to military people and about military bases and he's somebody who did not serve. who claimed to have bone spurs which as we know michael cohen said he never had. and yet he is saying to his secretary of defense, i don't want you to have that discussion with people who currently serve in the military. >> well also if people are speaking out against racism and the response is you're criticizing america, that's the response of someone linking racism is america. so he's sort of arguing the point for them by making that linkage in the way he responds. gloria, i appreciate you being with us. coming up next, what the white house press conference secretary

had to say about a man who will be in the hospital for weeks from what police did to him and what it said about their approach to the truth. keeping them honest. and breaking news. a new prognosis on how many more americans may die from the coronavirus as cases spike in states nationwide. another 100,000 people in this country may die accordk to authorities. it is stunning and it comes from one of the leading experts in the field. a lot of folks ask me why their dishwasher doesn't get everything clean. i tell them, it may be your detergent...

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and it's definitely not "close enough or nothing." mercedes-benz suvs were engineered with only one mission in mind. to be the best. in the category, in the industry, in the world. now, get 0% apr financing up to 36 months on most models and 90-day first-payment deferral on any model. mercedes-benz. the best or nothing. of all of the cowardly weasel phrases this is the go to lately. i was just asking. when a public figure says something stupid or just plain ugly and it is used whenever a better or more accurate phrase might be i said the wrong thing or i was mistaken or the rarely heard phrase from politicians i'm sorry. those are phrases we try to say to people we respect in our lives. it is what we expect of others especially those that we look up to.

today the spokesperson for the president of the united states signaled his lack of caring and respect for the people he was elected to lead and for the truth. yesterday the president said something hurtful and just plain wrong about an elderly man who was hospitalized and just as good people on all sides of the spectrum all over the country are grappling with so much in trying to do the right thing about it. the president promoted a conspiracy theory about the moment that bears showing again to underscore outside of the ranting of a few fringe groups there is not a lot of dispute about what you see in this video. the video is a buffalo police shoving martin gugino to the pavement during a black lives matter protest. a week later he's still hospitalized and could be for another two weeks with brain trauma. he's a catholic social

activists. two police officers have been charged with felony assault and those are facts. now here are the conspiracy theory which the president tweeted out to nearly 81 million followers. quote, buffalo protesters shoved by police could be an antifa provocateur. he was pushed away after appearing to scan police equipments to blackout the equipment at oann. he felt harder than was pushed. had a scanner could. be a setup. the whole notion that the president is tweeting about came from a russian born right wing network that written for sputnik. you can't make this up. it sounds like he's making this up. but he works for sputnik. his source for the nonsense was an item on a conspiracy theory website by a poster who goes by the name of sundance. kayleigh mcenany was asked about it today right out of the gate

today. >> does the president regret tweeting out a baseless conspiracy theory about a 75-year-old protesters on the morning of george floyd's funeral, the president was asking questions about interaction and he has the right to ask those questions. >> but does he regret tweeting out. this protest was assaulted. >> the president does not regret standing up for law enforcement, men and women across this country and let me say this and give just you a little bit about the mindset behind the president's tweet. the moment is reflectively anti-police officer and it is unacceptable to the president and this tweet that he sent out was not condoning violence or passing judgment on the two officers in particular but what it is saying if we see a brief snippet of a video it is incumbent upon reporters to ask questions rather than -- >> is it important for th president to have facts before he tweets out.

he's the president of the united states. >> the president did have facts before he tweeted out that undergirded his question. >> it is a baseless conspiracy theory. >> it is not -- >> actually it is. webster's dictionary is a theory that explains an event or set of circumstances a result of secret plot by powerful con speara tors. he said he was a member of the group of antifa which is the driving force behind the protests but it is not. he said he was a provaka tour and there was no evidence he was. he was using a super secret device. this man who was 75 could barely turn on his own phone and why would someone need a tracking device to see them around him. and he claims that he faked his fall. >> one of the things that the president said in the tweet was

that the gentleman fell harder than he was pushed. how does that work in terms of physics? >> look, the president raised several questions based on a report he saw. he has a right to ask those questions and where he stands is squarely with law enforcement. he was making no judgments, not condoning violence, not saying what happened in this case with these two officers was right or wrong. but he's standing back and saying we need to ask questions before we destroy lives and convict people in the court of public opinion. >> okay, that is such double speak. it is orwellian. he was just asking questions. but before we defame somebody, and convict them in the court of public opinion, we need to find out facts. he sent out a tweet defaming this man, convicting him in the court of public opinion to 81 million of his followers. this is a 75-year-old guy protesting for a lot of his life. it is a whole range of issues. and that, what kayleigh mcenany said there, there you have the president wasn't pushing a

conspiracy theory, wasn't speaking without the facts and wasn't speaking badly about a man bleeding from the ears after falling and last night he said he doesn't bear any ill will toward the officers that pushed him. that is what mr. gugino said. he got out of the icu thankfully but still in the hospital. he was only asking questions. just asking. calling on us to do the same. here is a question. what kind of person is so impulse-driven, so lacking in empathy that he attacks an elderly man in a hospital bed who is simply protesting peacefully. what kind of person does that. i'm just asking. who is too vain and cowardly to ever admit a mistake? just asking. what kind of person hires someone who promises never to lie to us as kayleigh mcenany did on her first day on the job and then breaks that promise repeatedly. just asking. and what kind of person is so in need of making a name for

themselves in the public arena that they betray the convictions they once expressed openly on mexican immigrants racist and in order to keep the job as the president's chief apologist and lie teller, just asking. up next, breaking news ahead on 360.

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die every single day until september. right now the death toll stands at 113,000 with 2 million cases reported and that is one of several important pieces of picture today. we have more from erica hill. >> sobering new detate about coronavirus-related hospitalizations. up in at least a dozen states, since memorial day weekend. >> it was our highest day yet of hospitalizations. i continue to be concerned. >> reporter: in arizona 79% of the icu beds are currently in use. the director of health services asking hospitals to activate their emergency plans and reduce or suspend elective surgeries. the overall trends alarming health officials. >> what concerns me is do we have the systems in place to ensure that a case in a community doesn't lead to a cluster, doesn't lead to an outbreak, to a health care system once again getting

overwhelmed. >> reporter: across the country 19 states reporting a rise in new cases over the past week. including florida, georgia and south carolina among the first to reopen. much of the northeast seeing a decline. >> it has to be done right. and we have to stay disciplined and the evidence is all around us, what happens if we're not. >> reporter: new cnn polling shows americans are split when it comes to returning to regular routines. and whether the worst is behind us. women are more likely than men to exercise caution. just 38% say they're ready to resume those routines and yet the country moves forward. >> i have missed it. this is the reason i live here. >> reporter: miami beaches reopened this morning. students in vermont and rhode island will be back in the classroom this fall. nascar fans could watch the action in person with masks and distance this weekend in homestead, florida. the u.s. government said it will

fund and study three experimental vaccines this summer. including one from johnson and johnson set to begin human trials next month. >> and erica hill joins us now. los angeles countries is continuing to loosen restrictions. what does that look like so far? >> reporter: in fact they announced a lot of restrictions will be loosened as of friday. we're talking about gyms, campgrounds, rv parks and hotels and lodging and day care and they -- day camps rather and the other thing that will get people talking, music and film and tv production could resume on friday. they're going to put out further guidelines about distancing requirements. obviously they want people to continue to use face coverings and to practice social distancing but they offer more guidelines coming tomorrow but that is a big move forward for los angeles county. >> erica hill, thank you so much. and joining me now is dr. lena nguyen.

doctor, there could be another 100,000 deaths in the country by september. it is a staggering number as states are continuing to reopen. i don't know if it is a wake-up call or what it is. because it seems like there is now this kind of collective decision just to move along. just to get on with reopening. >> this is the problem, anderson. because these numbers are actually not surprising. that is the number, 200,000 is what we get at the current rate of death we're at now. this is devastating because unlike before, unlike months ago when maybe we didn't know how to prevent infection, we actually know exactly what it takes. we know that we need this national strategy, we need testing which we keep talking when but it is not at the level that we need to reopen safely or to continue reopening and that we need clear direct messages led by public health experts following the science and i

think that there has just been this complacency that set in and that is the devastating part. we know how to prevent the next 100,000 deaths but we're not doing that. >> do you think there are mixed signals? because the white house task force seems to have disappeared. they aren't meeting every day and not speaking publicly as a group. it seems like clearly the white house wants to distance itself as much as possible from talk of the coronavirus. >> i agree with you, that is what seems to be happening. but this virus is not going away. and i think this is the important message for everyone to hear. for hospital leaders, they should be prepared for the next surge so we don't run to the problem of not having enough masks and personal protective equipment. it was a national disgrace that we ran route last time. what is our excuse this time. and policymakers should do everything to increase the testing and tracing and the public health infrastructure

that we need and the message for the american people is don't take unnecessary risks. that we know that there is more transmission of virus just as people are up and about and in fact this is a time that we should be on our guard even more than before. we should double down and do more social distancing as much as we can and wearing masks and washing our hands because we have to take action news our own hands if we're not going to see the federal government leading the way. >> dr. lena wynn, thank you. just ahead, a comedian from late night with seth meyers joins us. amber ruffin is her name. she's been sharing with the nation the painful and dangerous encounter she's had with police as a black woman. we'll be right back.

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amber ruffin is on night with seth meyers and last week she would open with stories of her ob oben counters. she exited the car to grab another friend for dinner skipping down an alleyway. here is what she said. >> little did i know, skipping down a police station ally is a big no-no because i skip toward a cop car that is driving at me down the alley. the sirens go off. a cop getting out and his gun is drawn and he goes put your hands on the hood. put your hands on the hood. this man is furious. i comply. and his partner pats me down. now this man is livid. it makes no sense. his anger level toward me is insane. i'm a young adorable delight, literally skipping down the

street but i infuriated him and so the cop and i see jeff and thank god jeff didn't come running up to us because it could have gotten us both shot and the cop saw that a white man had seen all of this and he changes his attitude with the quickness. he suddenly professional and and the man could have shot me in a second. people who know me would be running around talking about attacking an officer doesn't seem like something am bher would do. but the officer said she did, so that has to be what happened. >> and joining me now is amber ruffin. thank you so much for being with us. one of the things you mention in your stories that every black person has stories like this that your stories aren't the exception in any way. and i completely believe that to be true. i also believe that to be devastating in many ways. not the least of which just shows how ingrained perceptions

or attitudes of race are in humans and in law enforcement and does one change that? do you believe it could be changed? >> good question, anderson cooper. i mean, i don't know if could be changed. i like to think that it can. but i like to think this is the beginning of that happening. but it will take a lot of work. luckily it seems like a lot of people are committed to doing the work. so fingers crossed. >> it is also -- you're a comedian and talented writing so the way you tell the story, on the one hand, there is part of me that is smiling, the notion of adorable you skipping down this alley and it is -- you're telling a well told story. and then on the other hand it is just -- it is just devastating and deeply sad and this notion

that you're just supposed to take it in stride and other people are supposed to take it in stride. that is just not right. >> yes. that is true. i feel like it's part taken in stride, yes. but also once you say to your white friend, oh, my gosh, you'll never believe what happened to me then you run the risk of them saying, oh, grow up. anyone could have responded in any way to you. so it just has felt safe to not be running around talking about it. you know what i mean? >> yeah. >> and that is kind of sad but true. >> and also in so many of the stories, the reaction of a white person you happen to be with is also just so telling and they are horrified often and angry and trying to defend you. i want to play another story that you shared because this one yet again i was just -- let's

just play this. >> my friend rolls down the window and the cop is super nice. now i had never been stopped by a cop while a white man was around. and the respect this cop had for this white man in a suit, he goes, i stopped you because there has been a lot of prostitution. i go, oh, i'm not a prostitute. and this cop has never believed anything less. he looks at our i.d.s and he asked us more questions and my white friend is getting annoyed at this time. and the cop could tell. but i'm like, oh, my gosh, please just calm down and be cool. my friend says to the cop, you have nothing. you have to let us go. and i'm like, you just got me killed. but the cop goes, okay, but you

have to leave. and that was it. >> i mean, you're on the way to a party and feeling great about yourself and you were in like a velvet dress or something, your favorite party dress. and this -- and the reaction is that you're a prostitute. and to me what made it even worse is you were upset that wur friend is speaking back to the police officer saying you have to let us go and it just is so messed up. >> isn't that crazy. because he ultimately, he was right. i was running wrong. and it is so obvious how conditioned you are to just take it. it is crazy. and hopefully that is breaking and hopefully people could start to see they're worth and their

rights. but, anderson, that outfit was gorgeous. >> i have no doubt about that. look, i have to tell you, you're outfits in all of these bits that you're doing have been quite right on point. i mean you have -- >> anderson. >> you put some thought into it. >> i do. thank you for noticing. >> i could wear the same thing every night and no one notices because who cares. what this old man is wearing. but i've also heard you say now is the final for everyone to be angry and uncomfortable. could you talk about that a little bit. i've been talking to a number of protest leaders today and they all talk about that idea of you know what, now is the time for you to be uncomfortable because there is a lot of folks who have had to be uncomfortable every single day for a awfully long time. >> yes, there has been. okay, like i was saying a minute ago. when you tell a storely like

that to someone they could get mad and the common reaction is they feel uncomfortable and you hurry through the story. but i think it is time for them to sit with that discomfort. to hear it and let it affect them. because it's scary to look at that and know that your subject to that happening over and over again. and a lot of white people can't even get near that thought. it is too painful. meanwhile we're running around living smack dab in the middle of it. so, yeah, let's get uncomfortable. >> again, the reaction of your friends who are white, who are with you in these various stories, again it just -- it is so -- the reaction of the police officer when he sees your white friend and how, as you said, it just changed in a split-second. >> in a split-second.

it's nuts. any time you tell a story like to a black person and they say what are you going to do and that is the extent of it. but white people, their hearts are broken. they cannot fathom such a thing. and they're right. i'm going to try to get like that. >> well, amber ruffin, i'm glad you were on tonight because i have been watching what you've been doing and i thinking it powerful and important. so thank you. >> i love you too, anderson. >> i was saying it with my eyes. i like to keep my feelings deep down inside because that is what wasps do. amber, thank you. stick around on the commercial break. with all of the calls to reform police how one city dissolved and rebuilt a new one.

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let's check in with chris, see what he's working on for cuomo prime time. >> we're looking at progress, where do we find it in the case of george floyd. one of the officers made bail today. provocative statements from the chief of police, about what the duty of the officers were who were watching the one with the knee on his throat. we heard the pain of his family will that pain lead to purpose? we'll talk to someone else who was there about why things haven't changed. we're going to look at the covid cases. why did the number of dead make double before the fall. >> alarming numbers, 100,000 more people may die in this country. i want to ask him why. that's not a guarantee. i want to get into the mind. we're getting hit with too many suggestions about what can

happen, what can't. >> see you in a couple minutes. >> coming up, you're going to hear about police reform in the coming days. >> how one city reformed its police department by disbanding it. the details when we return.

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or the city government going digital to keep critical services running. you are creating the future-- on the fly. and we are helping you do it. vmware. realize what's possible. how far can you go to reform a police department. if you tried and they don't work, you do away with the police force, that seems unlikely. that is essentially what camden,

new jersey did more than seven years ago. they still have a police force, but we'll explain how. camden scrapped its police force and started from scratch, they saw a dramatic drop in crime as a result. gary tuchman is back with a look at whether this is a situation other cities can replicate. >> did you disband the camden police department? >> yes, so in -- at the end of 2012, into early 2013, every member of the camden city police department was fired, including myself and a new police force called the camden county police force was created and staffed. >> scott thompson is the recently retired police chief. his disbanded city police force meant no more police union and the ability to make work directives, the union is now back. but the work directives remain innovative. like this. serving bbq or ice cream as a

regular feature of the policing that is done in camden. with 4400 cops, they're getting to nose those they are policing. violent crime is way down since a high point in 2012 when the city police department was disbanded. homicide is down by 63% by last year. the department says excessive force complaints are down 95%. all amid this directive. >> you will use force as an absolute last resort. and you will de-escalate, there must be an attempt to de-escalate a situation prior to using force. >> this video from a few years back, shows an example of that policy, a man flailing a knife inside a store. he continued doing so outside. >> drop the knife. >> it's a dangerous situation. police stayed calm and let it

play out on the downtown streets. it looks like a bizarre parade. >> they enveloped the individual and walked five city blocks without using deadly force. >> the suspect was safely apprehended. >> there's a notable principle to abide by. you're man dated to notify a supervisor if a fellow cop violates any of these directives. >> we have to intervene. if the officer is doing something wrong at that moment, it's your job. >> if you guys hurt someone, and they were being peaceful. >> i would take the badge off his chest at the moment. >> you did the same thing to him. >> this reimagined police force gets a lot of attention here. >> you heard what's going on in the country right now with cops? >> yeah. >> do you think the cops here in camden are different? >> yes, they are very different.

they treat us nice, and they're cool with us. >> there is criticism that the police force doesn't have enough minority officers. isn't transparent enough and may not be responsible for the crime drought. >> kevin barfield is the local president of the naacp. >> the crime statistics have been going down throughout the state of new jersey, and has been going down within the nation. i would not credit that with the police and programs that have -- are supposed to be taking place right now. >> the former police chief says the department can improve while keeping its principles. >> i think most of the police officers here get it, every once in a while we get one that doesn't. and we move swiftly and with certainty to remove them from the force. >> anderson, since the death of george floyd, there have been two protests here in camden, both of them peaceful. a week and a half ago, the first

protest, at least 10 police officers participated. one of the participants from the police force was the current chief of the camden police. he was holding a banner in support of the cause. i should mention to you that the police provided to the demonstrators ice cream from mr. softy. >> camden new jersey, thanks very much. i want to hand it over to chris for cuomo prime time. >> welcome to prime time. one of the three officers charged with aiding and abetting the alleged murder of george floyd has now made bail. he is thomas lane. his lawyer was on this program monday night, popped some eyeballs, punting blame to bystanders for not stepping in to save george floyd. >> if all these people say why didn't my client intercede, well if the public