d you will de-escalate, there must be an attempt to de-escalate a situation prior to using force. >> this video from a few years back, shows an example of that policy, a man flailing a knife inside a store. he continued doing so outside. >> drop the knife. >> it's a dangerous situation. police stayed calm and let it play out on the downtown streets. it looks like a bizarre parade. >> they enveloped the individual and walked five city blocks without using deadly force. >> the suspect was safely apprehended. >> there's another very notable principle to abide by if your camden city police officer. that is you're mandated to notify a supervisor if a fellow cop violates any of these directives. >> we have to intervene. if the officer is doing something wrong at that moment, it's your job. >> if you guys hurt someone, and they were being peaceful. you would report them? >> i would take the badge off his chest at the moment.

because it's a disservice to yourself. >> you did the same thing to him. >> yes, sir, absolutely. >> i expect nothing less. >> reporter: this reimagined police force gets a lot of attention here. you heard what's going on in the country right now with cops. >> yeah. >> reporter: do you think the cops here in camden are different? >> yes, they are very different. they treat us nice, and they're cool with us. >> there is criticism that the police force doesn't have enough minority officers. isn't transparent enough and may not be responsible for the crime drought. kevin barfield is the president of the local naacp. >> the crime statistics have been going down throughout the state of new jersey, and has been going down within the nation. i would not credit that with the policing programs that have -- are supposed to be taking place right now. >> reporter: the former police chief says the department can improve while keeping its principles. >> i think most of the police officers here get it, every once

in a while we get one that doesn't. and we move swiftly and with certainty to remove them from the force. >> anderson, since the death of george floyd, there have been two protests here in camden, both of them peaceful. a week and a half ago, the first protest, at least 10 police officers participated. one of the participants from the police force was the current chief of the camden police. he was holding a banner in support of the cause. i should mention to you that the police provided to the demonstrators ice cream from mr. softy. anderson? >> fascinating. camden, new jersey. thanks very much. i want to hand it over to chris for "cuomo prime time." >> thank you very much. hi, i am chris cuomo and welcome to "prime time." tonight, one of the three officers charged with aiding and abetting the alleged murder of george floyd has made bail. he is now out of jail. he is former officer thomas

lane. his lawyer was on this program monday night, popped some eyeballs, punting blame to bystanders for not stepping in to save george floyd. >> if all these people say why didn't my client intercede, well if the public is there and they're in an uproar about this, they didn't intercede either. and my client's down where he can't really see. >> hold on, hold on. counselor, there's a duty to intervene. and if an officer is doing something that's dangerous to a civilian, you have a duty to intervene. he did not intervene. just to be very clear here, civilians did come, okay? they called on police to stop hurting floyd. officers actually pushed one of them away. but be very clear, it is always the officer who has a duty to stop harm, even at the hands or knee of another officer. and none of those present did

their duty in that regard. that's not coming from me, that is coming from their chief. >> i helped craft the duty to intervene and duty to report back in 2016. it does not signify if you have two days on or 20 years on. we expect you to -- whether it's verbally or physically to call for help and to intervene. mr. floyd at the very least was expecting that. >> fill philonise floyd, george floyd's brother appeared before congress to create a new expectation at least after a killing like this, that pain, like what this family feels will force change. >> i'm tired.

i'm tired of pain, pain you feel when you watch something like that, when you watch your big brother, who you looked up to for your whole life die, die begging for his mom. i'm here to ask you to make it stop. stop the pain. >> the floyds are, of course, in profound pain and they are not the first and likely will not be the last. our first guest also testified at that house judiciary hearing, vanita gupta. the president of the leadership conference on civil and human rights, she's also director of the aclu. it's good to you on "prime time." >> good to be here. >> i'm not trying to be cynical, but there will be more george floyds. there have been many before, there have been many after. and the question becomes why has change been so difficult. you've spent a lot of time on the government's side, the ngo side, the legal side, why? >> well, look, i think that i was at the department of justice, i went in to head up president obama's civil rights

division two months after michael brown had been killed in ferguson. and at that time, black lives matter, the movement for black lives was gaining energy and focusing the country on having a reckoning around a whole host of policing issues. president obama started the task force on 21st century century policing, which was actually a fairly rigorous effort to take a deep look at what was happening in policing in 2015, and there were a lot of strides that were made, but it was, again, it was not enough. there was a lot of backsliding in this administration along the federal efforts to promote best practices, to force the civil rights divisions pattern and practice investigations were halted. >> but why, vanita? why? help us understand past the conclusion which is nothing got done. it's hard to understand why when it seems so obvious to so many people. just so you know we had former

commissioner ramsey on the show many times, and he was on obama's council, and he said their report was all but thrown in the garbage, and it didn't amount to anything, and it was frustrating for him. today you had the president's economic adviser saying there is no systemic racism in america. clearly the obstacles to change here have been difficult to surmount. why do you think that is? >> well, i can't explain to you why anyone right now could say that systemic racism doesn't exist in america. i don't know what to do with folks who are continuing to talk like that, but what i can say is that there has been change around -- back in 2015, police departments weren't talking about de-escalation. they weren't talking about use of force. i was listening to anderson cooper with chief scott thompson in camden, who was one of the pioneers back in 2015 forcing a national conversation around what police departments were

doing using force, not de-escalating, approaching scenes with a warrior mentality. so i can't say that nothing has happened. the problem is, i think that we have to admit this, this is what's going to make this different. police reform alone, and all of the efforts that have been engaged, and i'm putting aside the trump administration's total abdication of this work, i think there's 18,000 police departments in this country. policing is inherently local. there are things that the federal government can do to support and push, and the justice department has a big role and it has not been acting to use that role at this time. what i think is really different about this moment is when i was in the protests in washington, d.c., on saturday. legions of people in the street, multiracial, all exclaiming black lives matter, that's a very different kind of cultural experience than what we were experiencing in 2014 and 2015 when that phrase alone was considered controversial.

and you now have people saying, it is not enough to do police reform. yes, we have to have police accountability. we have to work on all of the things that are in the justice and policing act that i was testifying for today. but beyond that, we've got to actually have a big reckoning with the incredible criminalization, criminalization of homelessness, criminalization of mental health, criminalization of school discipline that is confusing and so deeply invested in certain communities in this country, mainly black, mainly of color. and coupled with a systematic disinvestment from schools, jobs, health care, public education. when i would open up investigations in the justice department for policing issues, policing issues were often the tip of the speer around major growth disinvestment, decisions that our leaders had made to adopt a criminalization model that increased police resident

contact in a way that just doesn't exist in affluent communities. >> that is true. >> we have to have this conversation. >> that's why things haven't changed. your description of the prescription of change is exactly why you haven't had change. a lot of what you're asking for today at the hearing sounds like the kerner commission in 1967, which is that poverty is the poison. if you look at poverty in white communities, you see the same problems, but they're even worse and magnified in minority communities. having politician, at once its own illness in certain regards, but also symptomatic. you have so many more interactions in these communities. you have more crime because there is nor poverty. %-p. you have a different coalition of the willing coming. we'll see in november, if people aren't voted in on the basis of what they'll say they'll do on this, i think that the question of whether or not things change becomes harder to answer. >> well, i think that's actually -- that's totally

right, but i also think there is stuff -- i'm not going to let congress off the hook right now. there is a moment, and you're seeing conversations in minneapolis, all over the country that are local conversations about budgets. budgets are moral documents. they express a set of priorities. >> that's local. >> that's local. but congress now, the reason i was testifying is two weeks ago the leadership conference where a big coalition of over 200 civil and human rights organizations presented congress with a police accountability framework with eight specific proposals. there are things that should be so basic and common sense that you would be surprised, your viewers should be surprised. why don't we have a national use of force standard? why isn't there a ban on choke holds? these are some of the things we're asking for, we're asking for a national police misconduct -- >> you think with the senate in control of trump they won't even

talk about his tweets. he won't even legitimize the pain of this family as symptomatic of injustice that is systemic in this country. he hasn't said a word. and you think the senate that is under his thumb is going to pass anything like that? >> look, i am hardly pollyanna or naive about what we're facing in the senate, but this is a moral issue. i've worked to advance a lot of civil rights legislation the last two years that has ended up in senator mitch mcconnell's graveyard. so i know all too well that he is sitting atop a whole bunch of bills that frankly are stalling the business of the american people. but on this, i will say i am not going let congress off the hook or mitch mcconnell off the hook, and none of us should. he should have to watch that video of george floyd with derek chauvin's knee on his neck for over 8:40 and look at the american public in the eye and say oh, yeah, i'm not going to

do anything. and it won't be enough, i tell you. >> he's going to say, it's a state issue, it was a one off, it's terrible. the system works, he's getting prosecuted. let's see what happens. what do you want me to do, i'm a senator? >> i don't think he's going to do that. he's going to try to pull some kind of mealy-mouthed proposal. maybe something on data, maybe something on training and say, okay, i'm getting something passed, there, i did the business. that is not going to be the answer. the justice and policing act that was proposed by members of the house and of the senate is a really reasonable, really important set of proposals. and i read you a couple creating the national use of force standard, banning chokeholds, banning profiling, establishing a national police misconduct rental industry so officers can't go from department to department, exactly. we need to expand the justice department's jurisdiction to prosecute police officers for misconduct. it is a too high bar. this law does that, prohibiting no knock warrants for drug

offenses. breonna taylor was killed -- >> on a no-knock warrant. >> there are so many incidents. it is why oregon has banned because of terrible incidents that have happened in their state. it is time for national ban. and qualified immunity. qualified immunity is a court created doctrine that has gutted the ability of people to have any kind of accountability in our civil courts because it's basically created this total shield for police officers. and that creates impunity of itself. and lastly, ending the transfer of military equipment so we don't see what we saw in the streets in d.c. last week where we've got literally the military coming in to take over, and we saw this after ferguson. so these are eight really significant proposals, but one that even this congress with

mitch mcconnell, given that it was a moral issue, he should have been in that room today. i hope he meets with philonise floyd. his testimony was powerful. george floyd has changed this world, but it will only amount to something if congress takes action and does something meaningful and substantial. >> i'm no cynic, i come from a family of politicians. and i have a father and brother who were in it as well. politicians act out of a fear of consequence more than they do out of good conscience. if you do not show this country has put together a coalition of the willing that goes just beyond minorities, they will never do anything. i'm not being a cynic, i'm being a realist. but vanita, i got to go. i agree with your suggestions. i agree with your suggestions. >> i've been doing this work for too long to be naive about this, but i will say look at the "washington post," the polling today. >> i know, but polling is not

voting. >> that's not voting. >> if you can't say right now with a straight face that black lives matter, they're just asking to matter. they're not asking to matter more than you or more than me or more than anybody else. they just want to matter. they want to be seen and heard and felt. it is a basic bottom standard we're talking about. i'm sure the polls will reflect that. it will move in that direction. but will it become purposeful within our power structure. that's about fear of consequence. i got to jump. we have to promise each other to keep talking about it, because time -- >> i would love to. thank you. >> time will reduce the emotion but increase the urgency for action. i will not leave it alone. i promise you. >> thank you. >> look, i'm not a cynic. i want to see change. i know the polls are showing that more of you and i, we get it. the key is the we. if you don't have those in power ry flecked, it won't happen. all right. now, another thing for us to take on is a slice of reality. summer gatherings? yay.

reopenings? yay. protests yay or eh, depending on how you feel. they all increase the chance of more coronavirus cases in america. i know too many eyes are starting to glaze over when you hear numbers like we're closing in on two million cases. we may hit it tonight. more than 100,000 dead. yeah, i've heard it, what if i told you the death toll may double between now and the fall? how? a leading scientist says he fears that is all too likely. why? next. at t-mobile, we know that connection is more important than ever. for customers 55 and up, we want you to get the value and service you need to stay connected. that's why we have a plan built just for you. saving 50% vs. other carriers with 2 unlimited lines for only $55.

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200,000 dead by september because of coronavirus. nearly double where we are tonight. almost impossible to believe for many many people watching right now. let's bring in dr. ashish jha of the global health institute. always good to see you. justify this very frightening analysis. is this just a guess? how did you get there? >> chris, thanks for having me on. it's not just a guess. right now we have between 800 and a thousand people dying every single day in america. and all of the models, all of the data suggests that things

are going to get worse, we're going to have increases. but even assuming it's going to be flat all summer, that nothing is going to get worse, we're going stay flat all summer. even if we pick that low number of 800 a day. that's 25,000 a month. in 3 1/2 months we're going to have another 87,000 people, and we will hit 200,000 sometime in september. >> but it's getting better, it's getting better, doc. here is the pushback. it's getting better. the numbers are going down, new york is doing better, others are doing better. the states where it's going up, they don't have a loft cases so we don't have the same kinds of problem we had in the beginning. you're trying to scare us into staying home because you people on the political left, i'm dumping you in with the rest of them, jha. and you just want to keep us at home until the election. >> i don't want people to stay home, that's not what i'm trying to do. let's be clear where the country is. new jersey, new york, connecticut, massachusetts are coming down. arizona, florida, texas, the carolinas are going up, and the country is pretty flat. and i'm not trying to scare people to stay at home, what i want is for people to wear

masks. i want them to do social distancing. what i want, what i've always wanted was for us to ramp up a testing and tracing infrastructure, so we could get back outside safely and suppress the virus. we're not doing that. we're going to have another 25,000 deaths a month until september, and then it will keep going. it's not going to magically disappear then. we've got to turn this around, this is not the future i want. >> a data point that is interesting for people to understand. is hospitalizations. sorry to the people operating a camera. we're in these flash cameras, i move around way too much for an anchor. but they're doing a great job. hospitalizations matter. why? now you know you're dealing with really sick people, okay? it's not people who say they're sick. they're asymptomatic, it's not a big deal. hospitalizations since memorial day, in at least a dozen states moving up. some people will say, you know, a dozen out of 50, not so bad, how do you see it?

>> hospitalizations are an important measure because some people said you're seeing more cases. we're doing more testing. we are doing a little more testing. that's true. but hospitalizations are not from testing. hospitalizations from people getting sick. the fact they've gone up in 12 states in the last couple of weeks, summer was supposed to be our better months. warmer weather, people outside, a little less transmission. this is not the time i was expecting a lot more cases. we're seeing a lot more cases, especially in states like arizona, where the numbers look really scary. >> see, i was thinking there would be more cases because you have more people doing more things. so even if they're not locked in buildings together, school, workpla workplaces, et cetera, i thought we would see this. you have more reopenings, less people doing restrictions. masks are helpful, but they're not a complete prophylactic. why didn't we expect there to be more cases when people aren't doing the one thing that gave us a chance of not having spread,

which was isolating? >> yeah, well, look, i did expect some. but the early data from georgia was that you could open up and be outside, and it's not too bad. and that's what we saw in georgia. i was hopeful that maybe the summer months would give us more of a break. i think i may have been too optimistic on this and you may have been right on this, chris. that's what the data suggests so far. we'll have to see what the next few weeks bring. anyone who is expecting a dramatic decrease in cases is almost surely engaging in wishful thinking. if it stays just flat over the next three month, we're going to hit 200,000 deaths some time in september, and that is just awful. >> now, the last word is the one we're going to have to watch most carefully. you and i together, doc. you know why? awful is subjective to how people feel in terms of perspective on the number. the concern for me has been all along, people will get fatigue on their fear. and 200,000 people dead won't

mean what it did when we were at 115 people. and 1,000, 2,000, 5,000, people were scared, we're all going to die, we're all going to get sick. they don't feel that any more, so much so that they'll subscribe to political fantasy of this being a concoction of agendas. that it's more about the election than science and health. i wonder if people will care about the numbers. the x factor is what does it mean for kids and the vulnerable in schools in the fall. if that changes, the dynamic can change. we will stay on it. dr. ashish jha, he will need you do that. thanks for being with me tonight. scary prediction. i hope you're wrong, but i hope you're wrong because we do the right thing. be well, my brother. >> thank you. guess what the president has planned next week, apropos of exactly what we're just talking about. his first maga rally since this virus exploded. guess where he wants to have them? in states where covid cases are spiking especially. is that a coincidence? well, he's certainly not about

to let a pandemic get in the way of his re-election bid, right? that's been the truth from the beginning. he's very worried. people keep saying he is down in the polls. so much so, that he has his campaign threatening our network with legal action to remove one of our polls because he doesn't like the numbers. you know why i'm smiling, because that's ridiculous. not in america yet. next. ♪ ♪

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for the same medications as the vet, but up to 30 percent less with fast free shipping. visit petmeds.com today. here's another one for the can't make it up category. the president's campaign demanded that cnn retract and apologize for a recent poll because it showed him well behind presumptive democratic nominee joe biden. our network's message is this. no. this is america. you don't control what a free

press says. that's the free part. the polls showed that the president is trailing the former vp by 14 points. 55-41, well outside the margin of error. and by the way, it's not like this is the only poll that suggests something like this. several others released over the past few weeks, abc news/"washington post," monmouth university, quinnipiac, even a fox news poll have shown biden well ahead of trump. it also showed his approval rating sinking to 38%. that's the worst since last january, roughly on par with the approval ratings of other one-term presidents. now, the interesting part to me is that to push back on the cnn poll, trump hired one of the least accurate pollsters in the industry. mcloughlin and associates to make more incorrect and misleading claims. cnn's executive vice president and general council responded

with this, i want to read it to you in full. to my knowledge, this is the first time in its 40 year history that cnn had been threatened with legal action because an american politician or campaign did not like cnn's polling results. to the extent we've received legal threats from political leaders in the past, they've typically come from countries like venezuela or other regimes where there is little or no respect for a free and independent media. cnn is well aware of the reputation of john mcloughlin and mcloughlin and associates. in 2014, his firm famously reported that eric cantor was leading his primary challenger dave brett by 34 points. he lost by 11. that's a 45-.swing. the firm currently has a c/d rating from five 38. mclaughlin was able to evaluate

cnn's recent poll because cnn is transparent and publishes its methodology along with its results. because of this, mclaughlin was able to print his own critique of the analysis. that's because we in america embrace free speech. we don't like the analysis, we don't agree with the analysis, we don't think there's a good basis for the analysis, but you get to say it here, because it's america. and we hope that you as americans can discern fact from fiction. so your letter is factually and legally baseless. continued the executive vp here at cnn. it's another bad faith attempt by the campaign to threaten litigation to muzzle speech. it does not want voters to read and hear. your allegations and demands are rejected in their entirety. very truly yours, david c. vigilante. now, if there is any doubt that the president's allegations are baseless you just need to look at this tweet. can you believe that we have to have these conversations? can you believe this?

i mean, literally, it would not make it through a screenplay treatment. it just wouldn't. a week ago he called on state tv over at fox, they're his puppets over there at night. to put up a cnn poll. why am i laughing? because i don't want to cry. on television. that's why. i don't want to cry. it is so sick and sad and obvious. lie, deny, defy. divide, divide, divide. divide and concur. conquer. that's what this president is about. and it worked for him, it got him here. will it keep him here? that's up to you, okay? because here's another part of it? play with the media, make you hate the media, a rejection of calls to rename military bases with confederate names attached to them. why would he refuse that? why? did you hear his answer?

there is some big news on a related front when it comes to major sporting events attended by many in the trump base. nascar, you hear what they said? we'll take you through all of it next. i'm kent coloma, it's my job to make sure all the packages that go out today get delivered. there are people who can only get food from amazon. when you come into work, that's what drives you. my little one, i would say he's definitely proud of me. every time he sees the blue prime trucks, he says, "daddy, there's your people!" i know every single one of us is here busting as hard as we can go every day to make sure these packages get delivered.

in an unprecedented crisis... a more than $10 billion cut to public education couldn't be worse for our schools and kids. laying off 57,000 educators, making class sizes bigger? c'mon. schools must reopen safely with resources for protective equipment, sanitizing classrooms, and ensuring social distancing. tell lawmakers and governor newsom don't cut our students' future. pass a state budget that protects our public schools.

sign of the times, nascar announced today no more displaying the confederate flag at all events and properties. pentagon officials now considering renaming bases that bear confederate commander names. trump, however, adamantly opposed, saying it's part of a great american heritage, and we should respect our military. the confederate military is not our military. they fought to keep slavery. they lost, okay? that's exactly why house speaker nancy pelosi is renewing a call to remove confederate stat yous from display in the u.s. capitol. among 11 statue there's stands alexander stevens.

he was the vice president of the confederacy, later charged with treason. just to remind what this is about and what kind of history we don't want to reinforce -- you don't want to forget history because then you may repeat it, but you don't want to glamourize it either if it sends ugly messages. steven said this in his cornerstone speech. "our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea of slavery opponents. it's foundations are laid, it's cornerstone rests upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man, that slavery subordination to the superior race is his natural and normal condition. this our new government is the first in the history of the world based on this great physical, philosophical and moral truth." now, we have come to see that in today's america of what we call bullshit. we don't want to be about that.

we don't want to own it. well don't want to recognize. we don't want to glamourize. and that's why you take down the statues that promote that as an ideal. and the reason i say trump and not president increasingly is because i personally am trying to insulate the presidency from some of what he says and often what he does, because i think that office has torn kept uncontaminate from what he is doing. we know why this is happening. we know why he does it. there are people who supports the confederacy and the flag and see it as a heritage symbol, and much, much more often than not, they support president trump. >> yes, chris. we could wrap this segment up, you said everything that needs to be said on this. the reality of it is donald trump in so many ways is the president of the confederate states of america. he really is. he speaks regularly to that

base, he pumps hatred on to twitter feeds like nobody's business. he is addicted to sending those treacherous signals over and over again. not just to the base, and to the worst among us in our humanity. but he also tries to -- he tries to dig up something very ugly and so many. like in the middle of protests, right now where people are fighting to just ensure that black people can breathe, donald trump is sending signals that say that confederate statues named after confederate heroes should remain on military bases. opposing the things that symbolically say that it's okay to believe that black people are inferior. he doesn't understand how oppressive the confederate flag is, how oppressive confederate statues are.

yes they are symbols and yes we need to address things like our economics and the disparities that exist there, and things like health care, things like being able to breathe and the issues that exist around policing and criminal justice reform. but symbols matter too, and i think that he's woefully mistaken. if he believes that we think that donald trump cares about black people. that he loves the blacks, what the hell do you have to lose and all the rest of that if he continues to be a proponent of the confederacy. >> two more things. hold on. point of push back, didn't you see the black leaders sur rounding him at the table today, saying he he's doing a great job and his economy is better for african-americans than obama and he could be a transcendent leader? >> well, chris, can i just let you in on a little secret? >> please. >> it is one of the political ugly secrets of our time, and it plagues both parties. in too many instances we're desperate to get a base.

you write checks. you put them in envelopes, and you slide them under the table. i guarantee you every one of those people have been paid off in some way. and it's disgusting because the price of their souls should be worth a whole lot more. i guarantee you those people got a little check. that's what it is. they ought to be ashamed of themselves. >> you don't think it's good conscience? >> conscience for -- no, they don't have any consciences. if they can back up donald trump in an era like this, when he's yet to say anything meaningful about george floyd to george floyd where he's lifting up conspiracy theories for people who are protesting. to ensure our ability to live? oh, no, they don't have any conscience. they lost that a long time ago, with their souls. >> give me a reason to believe this time is going to be different. and that there will be progress from the positions of power in terms of creating a more perfect union. i was going to say that is the best cold face that angela has ever given me. we lost her signal.

do you have her back? let them reset it, it's worth it to give her a chance to answer that. look, angela can be outraged and almost always with good reason. the question is, what is the point of the outrage if it doesn't find its end in purpose. i'm sure she'll put it out on twitter, she has twice the reach that i do on this show. i'll make sure i'll echo it. and you know she'll be back on this show. let's try to end with some good news. when it comes to the coronavirus pandemic, there was a major scare. i'm not in the business of scaring you. i'm not about hype, i'm -- look, i had the virus, i'm worried about the virus, i wants us to be safe, that's all. i'm not going to overplay it either. there was a really good example of how effective we can be in staving off big infection. there was something that everybody watched. everybody was worried about, the results were better than expected. what am i talking about? next. indistinct talking on tv ]

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we have got an update on a big covid-19 scare that cnn reported last month. more than 140 customers of a hair salon in missouri were contacted by officials, in order to quarantine because two of the stylists there tested positive. at least one of those stylists had symptoms, while working. everyone exposed was offered a free coronavirus test. 46 people took one. and now, we have the results. zero were positive. the question is why and what does it mean? let's bring in jeremy. why didn't everybody get sick? >> we can't fully know. but one thing -- a couple things we do know is that both the stylists who were infected were wearing masks. all of the clients were wearing masks. they were doing other distancing measures in the salon. they were spacing chairs. they were staggering appointments, so they didn't have too many people in there at once. you know, we don't know what, of those things, contributed. we also don't know how infectious the stylists were. you know, some people tend to

spread to a lot of others. some spread to fewer. so it could be a lot of those different things. but i think what this is, is it's certainly another data point to suggest that masks can have a positive impact. >> why did only 46 take the test that was offered out of 140? >> i think it was their choice whether or not to pursue that. >> what do you think of ashish jha saying we may double the number ever deatof deaths betwed september? >> look. i think all scenarios are on the table. what's concerning to me is really just the past week, there's been a significant spike in cases in quite a few states. arizona's looking really bad. >> what's going on in arizona? why arizona? >> well, again, i think we don't fully know because the reporting out of the state has not been stellar. so the data -- you know, the

data's not fantastic and, you know, it -- when you're not doing sufficient contact tracing, which we're not doing, still, in most of the country, it's hard to be certain where your cases are coming from or where your spread is happening. and one of the reasons why tracing is so important is not just that you identify the people who have it and try to stop them from spreading to others. it also helps you to understand where your spread is happening. >> hospitalizations rise in 12 states. that's the main metric that's not about testing. it's actual people getting sick. that's why we want to rely on that, yeah? >> yeah. hospitalizations is a -- you know, it's one of those met rickmetrics, it can't really be fudged. no matter how good or bad your other data reporting is, if people show up in your hospitals, that tells you you've got a problem. the challenge with that is that is a very lagging indicator. so by the time someone's showing up in the hospital, they were probably infected weeks ago. so it doesn't tell you where you

are now. it tells you where you are two-ish weeks ago. and that's a frightening thing. >> you think that we have to look at the protest data? and while they were huge groups, compared to political rallies, that may reflect on how we deal with the rest of the campaign. when will we know whether or not protests were a problem? >> i -- you know, i would expect that, if there is a signal in the data related to the protests, we would see that -- we would start seeing that in about two -- two to three weeks. or i'll say within two to three weeks. you know, the jury is kind of out on how -- how big a spike we might see as a result of that. you know, the protests were outside. we know that that reduces risk. all the protests that i saw, people were, almost everyone, was wearing masks. so that should reduce the risk. but, you know, these were large crowds. in some instances, particularly where it was stationary protests or sit ins, we know that's a risk factor.

>> if tear gas winds up killing coronavirus, we'll be in pretty good shape because they were using it all over the protest. i'm kidding. we don't know anything about it and obviously there's been a lot of behavior going on in this country that is regrettable, to say the least. hopefully, will lead to change of a much more healthy country, on several levels. jeremy, thank you for interpreting the data. appreciate it. >> my pleasure, chris. thanks. >> and, you know, this is a virus, right? racism is a virus. it acts the exact same way. we are equally not immune to it. we don't have a cure for it. we don't have a vaccine for it. not yet. what you're about to see may be the most sad video since floyd was killed. a hate parade. got to expose it. see it for what it is because it is what we are up against. next.

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when it comes to the quest for justice and equality. protestors chanting black lives matter, through the streets of franklinville, new jersey, ran into some trump supporters. look at this. [ bleep ]. >> yep, that's what you think it is. here's another angle, at the bottom of the box. i want to be very clear about what this is, what they were doing, and why. they were yelling things like, you don't comply, that's what happens. all lives matter. and black lives matter, to no one. see the trump sign? why would people, with this kind of ignorance, arrogance, and hatred, find such an attachment to trump? he will say nothing about them, in all likelihood. but fedex did. put out a statement about the video. why? because one ofho