corporate america gets called out. i'm smerconish smerconish in philadelphia. last week, i began by observing that americans were struggling to find the right words in the reaction to the killing of george floyd. the same can now be said for business. on thursday, america's number one coffee chain came under attack after an internal memo barring starbucks employees from donning black lives matter gear was published by buzzfeed. the retail giants said wearing pro-blm pins or t-shirts would violate its dress code policies because the accessories advocate, quote, a political issue. #ban starbucks started trending.

starbucks has had not only had the shirts but has handed them out. it announced a company tweet that read follows. until these arrived we heard you want to show your support. just be you. wear your blm pin or t-shirt. we trust you to do what's right while never forgetting starbucks is a welcoming third place when all are treated with dignity. and meanwhile, moto scapes kim under fire for posting this. the top of the image reads believe it or not it's okay to be all three. the three circles then read outraged by george floyd's death. does not condone looting and rioting. and supports good police officers. the word "me" written in the middle of all three circles. the image was captioned black

lives matter. we stand for justice and peace, united we stand, united we fall. for critics, the juxtaposition was too reminiscent of all lives matter. founders said this, moto scapes severely apologize regarding the black lives movement. we understand this is not enough, we will continue the support to the best of our knowledge and will provide more information regarding our actions in the upcoming days. on new york magazine's food blog called grub street. several restaurants were called out for what was described as empty tweets that didn't go far enough. burger king shared a quote, cinky all lower case rift on the company slogan when it comes to

people's liveses there only one way to have it without discrimination. mcdonald's published a square, they were once one of us, the post reads. pop eye deleted the tweet saying we are nothing without black lives and then reposted it with additional words sharing their commitment to fofrter an environment where quality is a priority. and papa johns saying our hearts go tout our employees. and taco bell, we don't tolerate racism or violence against black people. the extent of substantive change that will come from george floyd's death remains to be seen. it might include new statues like aborogation of equality. and an uptick in african-american positions in the upper ranks of businesses or professions. or it might take the form of better racial attitudes

expressed in polling or perhaps we'll expand our own social circles. but one question in the short term is this, do businesses have an obligation to support black lives matter. and that is today's survey question at smerconish con.c.co. joining me now is john pebbles, the largest black-owned real estate company in the u.s. in 2009 "forbes" listed him in the top-ten of wealthiest black americans. he has served on the national finance committee of president barack obama and the former chair of the congressional black caucus foundation. mr. pebbles, you get to go first, do businesses have an obligation to be supportive of black lives matter. >> yeah, businesses have an obligation to be supportive of black lives matter. what does black lives matter means. it means black ambition matters. it means black dreams matter. black education matters so it's

a broader perspective and yet businesses have an obligation to create a failure and equitable environment. and that has not been done in this country and the statistics show that. >> do they need to voice it, and i guess there's a second questionch to whom do they owe a duty? they're stockholders if their publicly traded or to the public at large. what about the statement we're in the business to make widgets not to be socially involved? >> i think that's a myopic view of what capitalism means. i think our founder fathers looked at whether capitalism could play a vital role in the expansion of the american dream. businesses have a role, one of them is the expansion of fair unit and expansion of our economy. they need to take affirmative step stos the community that actually helped build this country. and that means that

african-americans need to have a fair and equitable opportunity. the average net worth for a black house hold is $17,000 versus the average net worth for a white family is $171,000. you have this tremendous wealth disparity. and businesses have an obligation to close that wealth disparity by closing fair access to capital. you mentioned starbucks, how about more african-american franchisees. how about other companies, papa johns, more black franchisees, making an effort to make sure their businesses reflect the population and demographics of the communities that they're actually selling to. >> in "the washington post" coverage of the starbucks controversy there was a comment that caught my eye. i'll put it on the screen and read it aloud. someone regarded the change of heart as being stupid.

i expect to buy a product or service. i don't want statements or policy from the company or the employees. work is not the time or the place to express the political or societal view us of the owners or staff. don pebbles would say what in response to that thought process? >> well, i don't think that black lives matters and the agenda for black lives matter is a political statement. it's an american statement. on that day, human rights statement. so, i understand that businesses don't want political messages like wearing a biden or a trump t-shirt. but i don't know -- it's just as much as wearing the american flag in a store. i think that black lives do matter and that is is not a political message. so, i don't see the point in that perspective. i think that it's again a narrowing and simplistic approach to what the agenda is for black lives matter. >> right. so that is your response to the slippery slope. you are able to distinguish between black lives matter and

the 2020 presidential race or the lgbtq support that starbucks has embraced, versus wearing a maga hat or a joe biden button? >> yes, absolutely. and i don't believe, by the way, that any party has a monopoly on fairness either. i think at the end of the day, what americans want and why you're seeing these protesters be reflective of our population. i mean, you see as many white protesters as you see african-americans. in some protests, you see more whites. and that's because the capitalistic system in this country has grown unfair. wealth is so concentrated in a small group of people that even young whites know that this system is stacked against them in terms them pursuing their dreams. they're more empathetic to african-americans and the flight that african-americans have been going through for centuries. >> give advice to a friend of mine who asked me the following question this past week. an employer of 20 or 30 people

having nothing to do with public policy. truly the classic widget-maker. and he said one or two of his employees have come to him wanting to know, well, what's our position on the current controversy? and essentially, what are we going to do about it? you would have said what with your wealth of corporate experience? >> well, what our position is that we're an american company and we're based on fairness. the premise of our business and the premise of what we operate in is fairness. anyone who doesn't get access to fairness, that's a detriment to our business. we ought to focus on that. our company's tag line is affirmative development. that means we take aggressive steps to include all aspects of our society in the business opportunities. and we think that the buildings that we build should be built by people reflective of the population of demographics of the community that we build in. same thing about other businesses. women and minorities are an essential part of this country

and in many instances are a majority of the population. and women are the majority of this country. so businesses have an obligation to provide access fairly to these people who have not had them before. and the reality is, every measurable statistic proves that this system is is not fair, when it comes to providing opportunities for women. and it's not fair when it provides opportunities for african-americans. and it's business obligation to do something about this. we can't delegate this to politicians look what's happened already. >> don pebbles, thank you for coming back. >> thank you for having me. what are your thoughts, tweet me, kathryn, what do we have, facebook. the question should be, why wouldn't businesses support it, keith romero weighs in. your opportunity to weigh is right now. go to my website smerconish.com,

do businesses have an obligation to support black lives matter? up ahead, should schooling reopen this fall? my next guest says remote learning is no substitute for education. and then the "n" word to okay boomer, many found that not to be okay. still ever appropriate to use the "n" word in an academic setting? r a second time we're giving members a credit on their auto insurance. because it's the right thing to do. we're also giving payment relief options to eligible members so they can take care of things like groceries before they worry about their insurance or credit card bills. right now is the time to take care of what matters most. like we've done together, so many times before. discover all the ways we're helping members at usaa.com/coronavirus dand mine super soft? we're helping members with the sleep number 360 smart bed, on sale now, you can both adjust your comfort with your sleep number setting.

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we're already halfway through june, and many parents are still wondering, are my kids going back to school in the fall? is it safe? according to stay cdc report, 80% of those killed by covid-19 were 60 or older. the young, thankfully, have been largely spared.

the covid-19 fatality rate in the u.s. for anyone younger than 19 is so low that it's calculated as 0.0%. according to "the washington post," in denmark and norway, students have been back in school since april 20 with no increase in covid-19 cases. my next guest argues the u.s. must be creative to get kids back in the classroom. his bloomberg opinion piece is titled "schools should open in full this fall" they serve too vital a function to stay closed and remote learning is a disaster. joining me now is a bloomberg columnist who covers vision. joe, what do you envision for the fall? >> well, in the best case scenario, kids would go back to school five days a week. teachers will go back to school five days a week. school personnel will go to class five days a week.

students practice social distancing but they're in school. my argument is pretty simple, if you do one of these things where only ten kids are in a class or, you know, you're in school two days and you're out of school three days, you can't reopen society, because the society can't function if kids aren't in school. >> right. that seems to be an argument that puts business first. hey, we better send the kids off to school because we need the parents back in the workforce. >> well, that's true. i understand that argument. but there's a couple things i would argue. number one, you know, an economy that doesn't function has enormous damage to people. in terms of being out of work. in terms of depression. in terms of rises in domestic violence and abuse. and just in terms of sheer, you know, misery, homeless people, on and on and on. the other point to be made is that the risk of a child

catching, being infected is so small. it's infinitessimal. especially deaths. i mean, it's an extremely rare event. more kids die from, you know, slipping in the bathtub than covid. now, the argument -- >> okay -- >> the argument is they'll infect their parents or they'll infect their teachers, they'll infect their grandparents when they go home. the jury's still out on that, in terms of the studies. it's hard to know if that's true or not. the important thing, michael, we've been given a huge break in that there's control groups out there. there's denmark, norway, south korea. all of these countries that have opened their schools already, we should be watching them intently. watching what they do and watching what the covid rate is for them. and if their rate does not go

up, then we should be able to do what they do and have the same result. >> okay in your piece, and you've just addressed it in part, you anticipate what i'm sure many are thinking as they watch this -- i'll put it on the screen -- whenever i talk to friends about the importance of reopening schools, the pushback is always the same. kids may be asymptomatic, they reply, but they'll spread the virus to more vulnerable adults when they go home. what about the teacher, what about the bus driver, what about the cafeteria worker? >> i would argue a couple things. number one, we don't seem to mind when amazon workers are called essential and they put themselves in a lot more danger than a teacher would. yet, teachers are not essential? i don't really understand that. number two, as i said before, there is not -- we don't have proof one way or the other that kids spread the disease. i mean, i know people where the

child, and they're sheltering in place, the kid winds up having covid asymptomatic. and the parents don't get it. you know, so we don't know yet know. but what i'm saying is, keep an open mind about this. don't make any decision right now about what to do about school. but watch these other countries. and follow their example, if they're able to open schools without -- i mean -- why would you do anything else? >> quick final question, if i may. are you surprised that there hasn't been more of a movement among parents who share your view who are saying on a local level, hey, we want our kids back in school? >> i'm not. and i'll tell you why, michael. i've gotten a lot of emails from people saying you're right, you're right, you're right. but i can't say that because if i say that, i'll be viewed as a, you know, a baby killer or somebody who doesn't care about

kids. it sends a bad signal to people around me. and i'll be attacked and vilified. and so people are afraid to speak out about this. even though many, many people agree with me that the risk is so minimal that schools should be open. and we haven't even talked about the disastrous learning. >> joe nocera, thank you, appreciate you being here. >> thanks, michael, always a pleasure. >> let's see what you're saying via social media, facebook and twitter. michael, would you send your kids to school in september? >> fabrizio, here's your direct answer, yes. mine are older. mine are older. one who graduated from college ten days ago, two weeks ago. one who is arising sophomore. one who is in grad school. and, yes, i'd send them back. i wouldn't send them against their will.

but i'm prepared for them to return. by the way, the second of them is scheduled to go overseas for a graduate program. i question, and i'm not critical of the decision because we didn't know then what we know now, i hope when all is said and done, when the dust settles and we're beyond covid-19, that we will look at the decision to have dispersed them to begin with, because i question whether it was wise to send thousands and thousands of students on airplanes. disperse them when in fact the data now suggests that they're not the necessarily ones we have to worry about. perhaps they should have stayed on campuses. i'm tongue-tied. that's what i'm trying to say. so, yeah, that's my answer. don't forget to answer this week's survey question at smerconish.c smerconish.com. do businesses have an obligation to support black lives matter?

hope you're voting. up ahead, this baby was born to a couple on march 23rd, due to the pandemic, the family like so many others around the globe still does not have permission to travel home. i want to talk to the parents about that situation. and at stanford university, a professor paused his class zoom recording to read a quote that included the n-word. we'll talk to a professor who says sometimes we need to give a voice to the n-word. obligated to put clients first. so, what do you provide? cookie cutter portfolios? nope. we tailor portfolios to our client's needs. but you do sell investments that earn you high commissions, right? we don't have those. so, what's in it for you? our fees are structured so we do better when our clients do better. at fisher investments we're clearly different.

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the history of the n word has arguably made it the most hurtful divisive word in the english language. is it ever acceptable to uses that word within the context of education? there are already recent snenlts where professors have been criticized for their use of the

n-word in a classroom setting. several of these have occurred at stanford. a few weeks ago, a student told "the washington post" that stanford law professor michael mcconnell read a quote from patrick henry in virginia, but first, he paused the zoom video recording. the professor told the stanford daily newspaper that they gave a warning and then read the quote which included the n-word. he then resumed the recording and turned to other topics. as a result, its fashion consult agreed to have instructors participate in training. however, the first year law student, the only african-american in the class, wrote to the dean he had not been offended by the use the word. the email was circulated among stanford's law school faculty and with students' consent but was later leaked.

he wrote, quote, scrubbing the word from the quote would have made patrick henry appear damn near saint-like. he was not. he was a flawed human being. a woefully flawed human being. the unvarnished quote got that point across. i was not anywhere close to being offended. honestly, to suggest otherwise and not as annoying. i can make a distinct between the gratuitous offense. this is entire the latter. and a professor drew backlash after repeatedly saying the n-word when quoting from tobacco advertisements. and labeled his slide as racist brands. in april, an assistant professor in race and ethnicity studies class played a clip from the song f the police she hen read portions which contained the n-word from the slide. she later apologized.

at wake forest, the dean, with the supreme court case that included the n-word. the professor also saying he regretted causing any pain. in march, jeffrey stone said he would stop using the n-word in a lecture on the fighting words doctrine. several other similar classroom incidents have taken place across the country, including ucla, emery law school, ohio state. of course, there are also officers' use of n-word when not actually quoting source material. like in february, a professor compared the universities of okay boomer to the n-word. but let's focus on the ones we've laid out where the word appears to be used in context. these incidents came to light when students voiced their concerns over being subjected to any use of the n-word during

lectures. one is that it causes unnecessary pain. stanford law school faculty signed a letter which included at agreement, i recognize that open, intellectually rigorous accurate discussions of racism, slavery, segregation, police brutality can be conducted without speaking the term even when the term appears in a relevant text. my next guest, professor at harvard law school, where he teaches criminal law and race relations. he was awarded the 1988 robert f. kennedy award book for race crime and the law. professor, thank you so much for being here. you asked the question in a dear colleague letter. is it essential to research for effects that some find deeply upsetting. you answered that question.

please -- >> sure you should be able to enunciate the term for pedog pedagogical reasons. you had teachers seeking to drive home as vividly as possible, the depth and centrality and influence of racism in american life. and one of the way in which these teachers sought to do that is to quote from important figures in history, patrick henry, and one could go on with others. and they quoted these, quoting, using the bad way the term. well, that's bringing home a point that all americans should know about. they should know about and hear about the centrality and the

ugliness of racism. well, how could you really grasp that without hearing and grasping this word which is the racial slur in the american language? >> so, you just sort of -- i'm jarred by the fact that you just said it here. we didn't converse in advance as to whether you'd actually use the word. did you just do that for pedgod -- >> did you just do that? >> yes, i wrote a book. the fact of the matter is this is an issue that's come up time and time again. and, you know, what do you do, if you're teaching a course about the second reconstruction and you are reading martin luther king jr.'s wonderful letter from a birmingham jail.

he uses the word there, what are you going to do? are you going to bold martin luther king and stick in the term in word and erase what he wrote? what are you going to do when you're teaching james baldwin? there was a professor in minnesota who was disciplined because a student read james baldwin. and then talked about james baldwin's language. now james baldwin deployed the term and there was some up set at a student enunciating the term. well, it seems to me that people should be able to understand the difference between the racist use of this epithet in a pedagogical deployment of the epithet in order to really reveal the problem of american racism. >> so, let's define then the

context in which professional randall kennedy thinks it is appropriate. is it narrowly confined to the classroom setting? >> no, it's not necessarily. i mean, a lot of learning takes place in classrooms. but, you know, just suppose you're at dinner. education takes place in lots of domains of american life. it seems to me the important point here is, the use of the word to demean people, insult people, terrorize people, that's terrible. that should be condemned. on the other hand, if you are in a discussion and you are talking about the way in which -- until relatively recently there were politicians who routinely used the infamous n-word to refer to black people.

and if you were -- you know, if you were talking about this and saying, you know, until relatively recently, there were politicians in the united states congress who would use and if you were to say that over dinner, would it be right for somebody to condemn you for having made a statement, the purpose of which was to underline the problem of american racism? racism is obviously a big problem in american life. and it's really good that people are concerned about it. and want to address it. and want to stamp it out. that's a great thing. but we also have to have a sense of proportion and be able to make distinctions. and there's a big distinction between using it to demean people, insult people, threaten

people. and deploying it, using it to reveal the truth about racism in american life. >> a quick final question. i think i know the answer, based on what you've said, but i want to hear you say it. is the race of the speaker, in the context you've identified, irrelevant? >> i think so. if you're making a good point, you're making a good point, whether you're white, black, red, doesn't matter, brown. a good point say good point. and it would be a terrible thing in american culture if you erected a race line with respect to who can say what. >> professor, thank you for being here. >> thank you. >> let's check in on your social media reaction. tweets and facebook comments. smerconish, what's wrong with using the expression n-word, i can never see a valid use anywhere ever by anyone. i wonder, john, if you typed those words before listening to

professor randall kennedy's entire explanation. because his point is having read some of his work outside the context of that discussion, he thinks it's important to give voice. in other words, he doesn't say use it. but give voice. in other words, his argument is that sometimes, there's no substitute in an academic setting or some other pedagogical reason to actually say it. look, i can tell you this, i obviously knew the conversation we were about to have. i did not know that he was going to use the word. and when he did, as i described it, i found it jarring. i froze, sitting here, evaluating in my mind the propriety of what he had just said. but he was illustrating the very point that he was here to make which is this is so abhorrent that sometimes it needs to be said.

i want to radio miemind you it answer this week's survey question. do businesses have an obligation to support black lives matter? still ahead, you'll hear the story of steven and bernice wilcox talk with no clear path home. we're would be to find out why. but through all of this... you made it happen. you made our friday nights. you even made us dessert. ♪ so, to help you get back to full strength, we're giving away free re-opening kits at our website so you can safely re-open your doors. for all you do, from all of us, let us help you make it. ♪ that's why i've got the power of 1,2,3 medicines with trelegy. the only fda-approved, once-daily 3 in 1 copd treatment.

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join morgan stanley in supporting feeding america and your local community food bank. ♪ for months, an american kibble has be couple has been unable to return home from ghana with their new baby in part because of the pandemic. they're just one of the stories. steven and zara wilcox arrives in west ghana february 25th to meet a surrogate with a baby. the surrogate had been unable to obtain a visa.

bernice wilcox, born on march 23rd. the wilcox were trying to get a visa for her, now because of complications caused by the family it's about to be 12 weeks with no end in sight. turns out the sweeping travel restrictions due to the coronavirus have disrupted adoptions around the globe. in the uk alone 110 surrogate newborns stranded with one official estimating it could be 1,000. steven and zara wilcox and bernice join me from ghana. from his company, and zara is a french teacher. so, welcome to the wilcoxes. why are you stranded? >> well, at the moment, we're stranded because we can't get a passport from the embassy.

we're in a situation where the embassy has to say that you do a dna test which they didn't tell us until seven weeks from the time we contacted them anyway. so, we then 20 a dna lab and said, okay, we'll get a dna test. and they said, well, the embassies aren't doing dna tests. so, we're -- and in fact, they are not. so, when we got back to the embassy, they said, oh, yeah, we're not doing tests. so, i said, let me make sure i understand, you're giving us a requirement that we can't meet because of you well, yeah, we'll get back to you. well, here here. >> we saw the reaction from the state department trying to, you know, rattle the cage and help you break free of the situation. i'll put on the screen what the state department said. >> right. >> all determinations regarding the transmission of citizenship are made in accordance with

immigration and nationality act. in order to transmit u.s. citizenship with a child born abroad there must be a biological relationship between the child and the transmitting u.s. citizen parent or parents. is there a biological relationship in this case? >> yeah, of course. this is my daughter. and, you know, i was even there -- i was in the operating room for the birth. and since we used in vitro fertilization, we have documentation, as i said several times, if you do it -- if you conceive the old-fashioned way you have no documentation. here, i have actual proof that she's my daughter. and in fact, the state department website says that dna is only necessary when you don't have adequate documentation. i don't know how you could have more documentation than we have. here we are in suspended

animation. still waiting to even hear if we can do a dna test. in other words, the beginning of the process of the several week process can't even start until we get the word from the embassy. or unless they finally tell us that they're going to waive it. we applied -- we officially applied. they let us come in and apply a little over a week ago but we still have heard nothing. here we are, we don't even know when we're going to hear. >> zara, is she always so well behaved? >> this baby, she sleeps well. eats well. i have to apologize, she wants to be part of the interview. >> listen, i'm happy to -- i'm happy to shine a light on your predicament. i know there are many similarly situated. i also know from all of our back and forth that it's been very hard if not impossible for you

to get specific answers from the embassy about your case, instead of just a word salad that applies to every circumstance. so, hopefully, you'll come home soon, and we wish you all good things. >> thank you. >> yeah, thank you, michael. >> thank you for doing that for us. thank you, we're very happy. >> yes. >> see you soon. still to come, your best and worst tweets and facebook comments. and we'll give you the final results of the survey question@smerconish.com. do businesses have an obligation to support black lives matter? s right when you need them, with curbside pickup at petsmart. just order online, drive up, check-in, and pick up. johnson & johnson scientists are working 24/7mask to develop a covid-19 vaccine. the clock never stops and neither do we.

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do businesses have an obligation to support black lives matter? what did you say? here are the results. we had nearly 13,000 vote. 55% saying agreeing with don peebles who was my lead guest saying 55%, yes, they do have that kind of an obligation. he was careful to distinguish black lives matter from a political cause like taking a position in the say biden or trump camp. what came in, katherine, what do we have on that issue or anything else? smerconish, it's extortion now. support them or get your business destroyed. it's obvious bigotry. i don't think anyone was threatening starbucks with getting their business destroyed. there was a social media reaction definitely that caused them to reevaluate their position. they put it in the category of support of the lgbtq community. i know a lot of critics online say it was a purely political move to protect the bottom line.

what else do we have? smerconish, you're going to let that guy say the n word like five times on cnn air? education takes place in a lot of domains in life. where did you find this guy? sounds like a racial apologist. adam, i found him at the harvard law school. he's one of the most esteemed, widely published academics on exactly this subject. you know, there was a -- we call them in the business full screen that i never got to where he explained in a dear -- put it up on the screen, katherine, if you have it. he explained in a dear colleague letter why he thinks it's acceptable to enunciate for pedagogical, meaning teaching purposes, that racial epithet. drive home the audience the pervasiveness of anti-black prejudice and more specifically the way in which this troublesome word has been an integral part of the sound track of american racism.

my point is this, nothing could be more opposite a gratuitous use of the word than what you heard from professor randall kennedy. i didn't know he was going to say it and i bristled when he did. but i think that was a large part of the reason why he did because if he doesn't say it, he doesn't think it's got the same sting and he wants that word removed. coming up, the sesame street crew is back for a new family town hall about covid-19 and staying safe this summer. have a great weekend. see you next week. powerful sunscreen? yes. neutrogena® ultra sheer. superior protection helps prevent early skin aging and skin cancer with a clean feel.

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my son sawyer, we took a break from homework. he made this during arts and crafts time. >> i love the colors, ms. erica. >> he did a great job. does it look like anyone you know? >> elmo! >> it is elmo. >> oh, i drew in narwal. his name is max. max the narwal. >> that is great, abby. i love his green hat. >> oh, yeah. my friend likes green. it's a seaweed hat. it's one of my favorite animals. along with cows. ♪ >> hey, everyone. >> oh, hi dr. .