tv Cuomo Prime Time CNN June 24, 2020 6:00pm-7:00pm PDT
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mifaly who says that they're determined to see the men prosecuted, convicted, and appropriately sentenced. of course the family has waited a very long time for this. so many weeks for charges and now this. they say justice will come at the end of this trial with that sentence. >> victor blackwell, thank you. i'll hand it over to chris for "cuomo prime time." >> thanks very much, anderson, i appreciate it. welcome to "prime time." california, texas, and florida. the three most populous states in our country are now bursting with covid cases. thousands of new infections being reported every day. the crisis is getting worse in this country in at least 23 other states. turns out the virus didn't take a summer break, just as we were warned. now, you will not hear the president, and i argue, any republican leader within his earshot, say any of what i just told you. and it is all facts.
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but here's the truth that we have to now accept. masks matter. the resistance to masks is stupid politics. even worse, a symptom of a cancerous political culture that's making us even more sick than covid. denial is not a strategy for dealing with the pandemic you. know who said that? the governor of new york. one of the three states originally hit hardest, remember? new york, new jersey, connecticut, those epicenters. it went from oregon, washington, california, then here. but now those three states on the east coast are reporting the lowest numbers of infection rates. what did they get right that isn't happening in the states that are now in crisis? and those three states also have a big announcement all over the news today. new york, new jersey, and connecticut are jointly declaring restrictions for travelers. a 14-day quarantine for those
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coming from those three states to the eight states with the highest infection rates. this is going to be controversial. why is it the best way to keep numbers down? joining us now with answers is the governor of new york, my big brother, andrew cuomo. how you doin', gov? >> good thing you gave me credit for denial is not a life strategy, i was going to come right through that camera if you took credit for that line. >> i just expanded it to pandemic. so here is the question for you. what do you now know for sure, from your experience in your state, that you have to do in order to get cases down that isn't being done in these cases where they're going up? >> you're right, and we talked about this early on, and you had the right questions. you didn't have the answers, but
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you're not in the answer business, i am. there were two theories posed to this nation. the president said basically, don't worry about covid, the denial strategy. it was inconvenient, it got in the way of his economic story. so it was just the flu, it was going to disappear, don't worry about it, liberate the states, liberate new york, it's all about the economy. that was option "a." option "b" was the course we took in new york, that it's not a political issue. this is a virus. and there's no political strategy to deal with the virus. it's not democratic. it's not republican. and you have to use the science and you have to use data and you have to use metrics and you have to do the testing. and there is no choice between a public health strategy and an economic strategy. either you do both or you do neither. and i'm not going to sacrifice life for the economy. and it wouldn't work anyway. those were the two theories. we tested them, christopher. you have some states who followed the president's thinking. and you have new york, new
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jersey, connecticut, and some other states that did a science-based reopening. science-based reopening worked. you had to withstand the political pressure, you're right. but people stood up and they did it. and look what you see now. you see 27 states that are going up with the viral transmission. you see the dow jones going down. why? because if you didn't take care of the virus, you're not going to have the economy come back. now that you started this reopening, and people see the virus going up, it's shaking the economy even worse than if you had started more gradually but the market could have confidence in what you're doing. so new york took wa very different track. >> the two excuses offered up as a counter to the argument was, one, this was always going to happen, new york got hit first and then it was going to move around the country, that's all
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this is. and the only reason these cases are going up because we're testing so much and this is really just a false alarm put out by cuomo and others who want to hurt the president. it's just more testing. test less and you'll be fine. >> i got it. good. except it's factually bogus, right? you can say whatever you want to say, but it's bogus. first, on the testing argument, that's what they're saying. we're getting more cases because we're doing more testing. oh, really? then how come more people are walking into the hospital? what does it mean when you walk into the hospital except you are sick? forget the testing numbers. hospitalizations are going up. icu beds are going up. you have hospitals that are near capacity now. how do you explain that, but that more people are getting sick, right? so it makes no sense on its face. second, the argument about new york, we had a much worse hand than anybody else was dealt.
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why? remember what they did to new york. because the federal government, back when this started, january, february, march, they were saying it's coming from china, it's coming from china, it's coming from china. no federal government. you were too slow. it left china. it went to europe. nobody even saw it get to europe. and then it came to new york from europe. january, february, march, 3 million people on flights from europe landing in jfk. they brought that virus here. it took off like fire through dry grass. they did the european travel ban march 16. it had already been here for months. our numbers went through the roof, not because it was endemic to new york or our water or our accent, but because it came from europe and our federal government missed it. we had to turn the curve. these other states, all they had to do was stop it from going up. in new york, it was already up,
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chris. we had to bend the curve. and god bless the people of new york, you're talking about masks now, we did that two months ago. new yorkers heard the facts, they believed in government, they believed in the state government, they rallied together, they were community, they were together, it was beautiful. >> you came on the show with a mask on, early on, do you remember that? >> that was to cover my nose, that was different. >> that would have been a hell of a mask. but you came on, even when people were saying, masks, very controversial. so now you have the three states coming together, new jersey, new york, connecticut. there's been a lot of sharing of information and of responsibility. and now the move is making all these headlines, quarantine. the eight states that you three governors believe are not doing what they need to do, you're not going to let them expose your states to risk. they're going to have to have a
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14-day quarantine if they come to you. now, why is that a good policy, in light of the fact that when people were threatening to do that to you guys early on, you didn't like it, you thought it was wrong and you said, i'm not going to close my borders. >> not to correct you on the facts, because it's your show and they're your facts. >> but? >> your opinion. but there are still facts. first, the federal government wanted to blockade new york, okay? federal blockade. hasn't been done since the civil war. they were talking about closing bridges and tunnels and saying you cannot leave new york or enter new york. that was illegal, unconstitutional, and i said that would start another civil war. states do have authority over their public health and they can quarantine. what we're saying in new york now, and also governor murphy in new jersey and governor lamont in connecticut, look, we fought like heck to get our infection rate down. we have the lowest infection
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rate, christopher, in the united states of america. we went from the highest infection rate in the country to the lowest transmission rate. >> and you don't think that's just time? >> new yorkers killed themselves to do that. >> because people say it's herd immunity. >> they would be wrong. there is no herd immunity. herd immunity is 50, 60, 70 infection rate. we never got near that, the highest infection rate was 2%. it will continue to increase, that's what you saw in new york in the whole first phase. we shot up to 18,000 cases over obvio 60 days. this thing communicates and transcripts like no one's business. if you don't get away from it, the only one that's tried herd immunity is sweden, and that was a big mistake. we got control of it. so we don't want to go backwards.
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we have to stay diligent and the local governments do the compliance, et cetera. two, we don't want people coming here, bringing the virus. all you need is one super spreader, new rochelle, one person infected hundreds. and a lot of people come to new york and the tri-state area from other places. we just want to make sure we don't import the virus, because we learned that lesson, been there, done that, when the federal government failed to tell us that the virus was coming from europe. >> how confident are you that the united states didn't have to be in the position it is of having the most cases, of being so far behind other countries that are frankly not as developed as the united states in terms of public health or resources, how confident are you that we did not have to be in the position we are in now? >> it's not a question of belief. it's not a question of politics, okay? otherwise you fall into their trap. it's science. it's science. look at the numbers in new york.
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how did you go from the highest infection rate in the country to one of the lowest infection rates in the country? how did you do that? on the numbers, mathematically, as a matter of science. you got control of it. we had two different messages and two different strategies. and you had half the country saying it's the flu, it's nothing, don't worry about it. today, stop testing. testing is the problem. i mean, how ludicrous. people are walking into the hospital. how can you say it's testing? it is denial. it's a failure of leadership. it's all political. the president wants to run on the economy. he thinks this is a problem for the economy. he actually created a problem for the economy, because the markets have no confidence that he is in control of this virus.
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and that's his economic problem now. >> and also time is poison, economically, and the longer this goes -- i know you know this with your own budget woes in new york state, you're losing revenue, people need help, time is a devil in this, and certainly we've extended this beyond where we've needed to. let me take a break. when we come back, i want to talk to you about the challenges going forward in terms of this feared second wave although now, as dr. fauci says, we're not done with the first wave, so how are we going to have a second wave. and also the challenges for your state and this country in dealing with this search for equal justice and equal opportunity, what will new york do, next. at t-mobile, we know that connection is more important than ever. for customers 55 and up, we want you to get the value and service you need to stay connected. that's why we have a plan built just for you.
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our bargain detergent couldn't keep up. with us... turns out it's mostly water. so, we switched back to tide. one wash, stains are gone. daughter: slurping don't pay for water. pay for clean. it's got to be tide. we're back now with the governor of new york, andrew cuomo, glad to have you, big brother. the idea of enforcing a quarantine from those eight states, how do you enforce something like this? >> when you land -- they're basically south and southwestern states. when you land in new york, you come to an airport, we know who you are, we know what flight you took, we'll do random checks. you could get pulled over by a police officer who will ask you questions. you could go to a meeting and somebody could ask you and call the department of health.
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there are a number of ways to enforce it. some states brought in the national guard to do it. we're not going to do anything like that. >> so this is going to be a little bit of an honor system and you're counting on team to do the right thing? >> it's an honor system, but if you violate it and an inspector calls you or shows up at your address and you're not there, you break the law. you'll have a mandatory quarantine and you'll pay a several thousand dollar simple penalty. it's going to be tough to enforce but you can only do what you do, i got you. another question, california early on was very aggressive. they did a lot of the things you did in new york. why are they still suffering? >> well, the -- california started with smaller numbers. we started with that large spike from europe. they started with smaller numbers. i don't know exactly why they're seeing the continued increase that they're seeing. the -- in california, it's
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slightly different. you have different counties with different strategies. los angeles is doing one thing, san francisco and the surrounding counties are doing something else. they're having different results, depending on the strategy. los angeles i think is driving the numbers right now. new york, we did it differently. we had one strategy, it applied all across the state. the local governments didn't make their own strategies, their own plans. i thought that was confusing. if you have one set of metrics that works then everybody should live with that set of metrics and that's what we did in new york. >> tale of two cities in this country, you have what trump says and you have what reality says, very often, on several different levels. so i would like your responses to them. when it comes to cuomo, the president says, don't give him so much credit, first of all, i did everything he wanted and that's why things went well for him in new york. fair? >> no. no. look, the president -- first of all, his posture with covid is fundamentally different than my
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posture with covid, right? he always saw it as an inconvenient intrusion. i saw it as one of the greatest public health threats in modern political history and i thought we ought to take it very seriously and address it head-on and stand up and tell the people the truth. that's exactly what i did, every day. i gave them the facts. and then i said, here are the facts, you tell me what you think, here's my opinion. but i just told the people the truth, and i believed they would do the right thing if they heard the truth, and they did. i think the president's strategy was different. he wanted to minimize. he was going to market, this is not what it appears to be, and it was distortive, it was not true, and it was counterproductive because denial is not a life strategy, and the virus is going to catch up with you. and it's catching up with 27 states right now. so we had a fundamentally different posture. the president did help new york, he sent the army corps of
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engineers to build the javits center, thank you very much. he sent 4,000 ventilators, thank you very much. the army corps of engineers helped us build alternative facilities, thank you very much. sent the u.s. navy ship "comfort," thank you very much, mr. president. nursing homes, people died who didn't have to, and the operators have been given immunity. what do you have to say about that? >> several states that are not correct, but that's okay, it's your show, you say whatever you want to say. the nursing homes were the most tragic situation. you had senior citizens, they were the most vulnerable to this covid virus. they were in a congregate setting. and we lost lives all across the country in nursing homes, there is no doubt, and we have to figure out how to do it better the next time because there will be a next time, either a second wave or another disease.
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and if it is a disease that preys on the old and the weak, it's going to go to the nursing homes and the rehab centers. new york is one of the best cases in the nation for the number of deaths in nursing homes. "the new york times" did a report and said we were 35th out of 50 states. we did a report in the state that we're going to issue that says we're 37 out of 50 states. so comparative to the other states, we did well, because it is a national crisis. but it's false hope. we lost a tremendous amount of senior citizens. in this state, 38% of the deaths were senior citizens. now, we knew that the vulnerable population was senior citizens. but we still have to find out how to do a better job if this virus comes back in a second
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wave. >> and giving the operators immunity? >> the operators have very strict laws in this state. and if they violated the law, they're going to be held fully accountable. we have an ongoing investigation now with the department of health and the attorney general to make sure every operator was following the law during this crisis. >> so in terms of what we need to do going forward, you've made a good case of what works in new york, could work all over the country in terms of masks and calling on communities and being straight, telling them the cases, and not playing with testing and contact tracing as a bad thing. more information is never bad. how do those translate into the other virus that is attacking our country right now, which is division? the idea the systematic racism and systematic inequality for the black community is something you've addressed early on here.
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do you believe there is any real chance for change on a national scale? >> oh, yeah. look, let's make sure we have the formula right, okay? if you want to take covid and extrapolate to mr. floyd's murder, the formula for covid was, tell the people the truth, have a credible source that tells them the truth or develop credibility, and tell them the truth, and then social action. the way we're battling covid is, here are the facts, i'll give them to you every morning, but then social action, we have to do something. testing, tracing, stay home, masks, social distancing, disinfect the trains. on mr. floyd's murder, you have a galvanized public. in a way i've never seen it galvanized before, and i say thank god. i've said from day one, i stand with the protesters. why did it take so long, 30 years ago, rodney king, amadou
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diallo brutalized, eric garner. i don't know. it's here now. it's a precious opportunity, if you have the social action. people want change. they don't know how to make it happen and they don't exactly know what the change is. what we're doing in new york, because i want new york to lead the nation on this, chris, we have 500 police departments in the state of new york. i sent them all notice, you have nine months to come up with a plan that reinvents your police department as a collaborative. local electeds, community activists, everybody sit at the table and reinvent the police department so there's trust and respect from the community to the police and vice-versa. take this moment, which is beautiful, and this is when change happens, but you need the vehicle to have the actual social action. and that's what we're going to do. take all these phrases, defund the police, demilitarize the police, escalation, more
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visibility, more transparency, civilian review. okay. what does that mean? and let's do it community by community, because the new york city police department is different from the albany police department. every community has to come up with the police department it wants. the police were not sent down from heaven. they're not in the new testament. the police department is whatever police department the people want because they pay for it. you know, we have it a little backwards now. the police are this way and that's the way it's going to be. no. it's going to be the way the people want it to be. they are public servants. so sit down, community, and put everyone at the table, work through these tough issues. but then design the police department you want. but you actually have to do it so we can capitalize the moment and actually have change rather than just a lot of energy. >> but you know that the minority communities can't do it for themselves because they
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don't have the power. so how do you get the powerful to align with the interests of the unpowerful? how do you get the haves to work with the have-nots? as you've been telling me my whole life, the policing is a function of high crime. high crime is a function of high poverty. high poverty is a function of low opportunity. so you come back to those type of things, it becomes as much about class as it does about race in some ways. of course you have unique problems with the policing culture. how do you get the haves on board with the have-nots? >> look, you have a moment here. i say -- first thing, you need a process. i say in nine months, every local government with every police department, 500 in new york, sit at the table, give me a plan in nine months as a collaborative. >> or else? >> or else you get no funding from the state, which is a big or else. so they're going to have to do it. and then i say, don't just give them a plan, you have to pass a
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law, which means you have to work with the legislative body in that government. all the energy that's now generated, all the community activism, all those protesters, within nine months that energy is still going to be there. and i want to see a legislature in any local government pass a new plan redesigning their police department if the community activists and that energy isn't part of the process and isn't satisfied. it's not going to happen. >> me having you on the show is an unusual thing. we've never really done it, but this was an unusual time. and they were unusual needs. you stepped up in an unusual way that really was created by a vacuum of power on the federal level. you're not the only one, there are other governors, you've been very good and collaborative with hogan in maryland and whitmer and dewine and the ones in the northeast region. but these unusual times have demonstrated some unusual characteristics in people. and of course i won't always be able to keep having you on the show. it will never be seen as fair in
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people's eyes, and we both get that, that's okay, you have plenty of people to talk to. but i want you to know that june is a big month for us, right? we got mom and pop's anniversary on the 5th, pop's birthday on the 15th. this is what he always wanted. he was proud when you became governor, because of what he knew you would do. remember that whole talk he gave us about, i'm not proud, i don't believe in pride, pride is deadly sin, all that. what he wanted to see is what you do with the opportunity. and everything that he ever said mattered to him about public service, is what you demonstrated right here and right now, during this period, when your state needed it most. and i hear it all the time. not everybody likes you, not everybody likes me, everybody seems to like pop now, that's the benefit of being out for a while. i hope you recognize what even i'm able to recognize, being spawned from the same wolfpack. i hope you are able to appreciate what you did in your state and what it means for the rest of the country now and what
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it will always mean to those who love and care about you the most. i'm wowed by what you did, and more importantly, i'm wowed by how you did it. this was very hard. i know it's not over. but obviously i love you as a brother, obviously i'll never be objective, obviously i think you're the best politician in the country. but i hope you feel good about what you did for your people because i know they appreciate it. nothing's perfect, you'll have your critics. >> thank you. >> but i've never seen anything like what you did and that's why i'm so happy to have had you on the show. and i hope you know that. >> yeah. look. we're not very -- we're not big on sweet talk. but that was pretty sweet. that's what dad was all about, making a difference. that was sweet, i wonder who wrote it. what dad was all about -- you just stole my line. what dad was all about was making a difference. and he would say, who cares what they say, right? he lost his last election, people forget that. who cares what they say, it's what you know, it's what you did
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is right. what i did here was right. and whatever, you know, was a political no-win, as you said from day one, you have people on both sides, you can't make everybody happy, so you just do what's right. i'm comfortable with what i did. i think the facts bear it out. i think the numbers bear it out. i think we saved tens of thousands of lives. and you do what is right. you get up every night and tell the truth whether they like it or not, this is the truth the way you see it and that's all you can do. i hope he would be proud of me. he talked to me a lot through this, by the way, 111 days, i did a briefing every day, i couldn't sleep at night, i would close my eyes and i would say, what would pop say, and he spoke to me. and he helped me tremendously to get through it. but what you do is the same thing. you're doing the right thing. and that's all we can do. love you. go to work. >> i love you very much. i appreciate you being on. i'll see you soon.
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>> thank you, brother, same. >> unusual times, right? he's my big brother, i love him, of course i'm not objective, but let's call it straight. look at the state. look at the numbers. look at new jersey. look at connecticut. look how they came together. yeah, he's my brother. there's no question, i can cry about it in a second. but the results are there for all to see. was it perfect? no. you tell me what is. but look at the state our country is in. and if you don't think this is going to be reflected in what happens in november, then you haven't been paying attention. we got new poll numbers for you. and this isn't about president trump being worried or not. this is about the state of what this country is demanding, okay? there are people who are going to be worried on the republican side. polls are just a snapshot of a moment in time. let's see where we are right now, next. did you know libertyl customizes your car insurance so you only pay for what you need? i should get a quote. do it. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪
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they're just a suggestion. trends are relevant. looking at specific states, relevant. but also how they're playing within the parties will manifest in message. so that matters. to that point, several high profile republican senators are acknowledging that they feel the same way they're seeing in the polls right now about trump's reelection campaign. as lindsey graham put it, it's been a bad couple of weeks. new evidence from key midwestern states. remember, states, not just national popularity, because it's about the electoral college. joe biden, former vp, leading trump by 8 in wisconsin, up from 3 last month. ohio, numbers are tight. well within the margin of error. biden leading. important. why? because trump beat clinton by 8 points there. florida, they're going to be in the election also. they're going to be big, right?
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covid, it's not just bad weeks, that's senator graham trying to play it down because he's all about being nice to trump. we'll see what happens if trump loses, what song he'll sing then. it's not a couple of bad weeks. it's ignoring a pandemic and having so many lives lost where it didn't need to happen. it's abobiabout ignoring masks this country. he's ignored them both. florida is in the spotlight, there are cases popping up all over the place. it's being ignored there. miami's mayor is here. he knows this is serious. he's like me, she's a survivor. let's talk about the reality, next. the gillette skinguard it has a guard between the blades that helps protect skin. the gillette skinguard.
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you're going to hear the governor of florida who refuses to come on this show along with all the other high elected officials at the state level. they'll say we have our ups, we have our downs. they're not telling you the truth. there's single record high number of cases in florida, 1,500 more than the record they set last week.
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hospitalizations are up. icu visits are up. ventilations are all up in the past two weeks in the most populous county, miami-dade. but the governor says he's not going to order mask wearing. you tell me this isn't about stupid politics. you tell me this isn't about desantis being an acolyte of trump. he won't come on and make the case. what does that tell you? miami mayor francis suarez announced a city-wide mask mandate this week. he knows what the virus is like all too well. you're looking well, though, mayor, welcome back to "prime time." >> thank you so much, chris, i appreciate it. >> i know you and i are still figuring out why we're not completely right and that there's going to be a story to tell with this virus that you and i are trying to figure out ourselves. we'll put that into the conversation some day. right now, the governor says, masks, well, you know, tough to enforce, may not be the best use of resources. all the experts are saying masks
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are the best use of resources. your take? >> we implemented a mask rule in public this week because like you said, we saw, you know, a record number of cases the last few days in miami-dade county. to put the numbers in context, when we ordered -- put into effect a stay-at-home order, the high water mark was 533 cases, wo chris. we had 900 cases, which was twice the high water mark in march when we issued the stay-at-home order, which was incredibly effective. if we don't want to go backwards, we have to mandate masks. we're going to ask for a civil fine if you're not wearing the mask in public, a fine of up to $250 for failure to follow the law. >> look, you're a republican. you're doing right by your community, period. i shouldn't even have mentioned the first part. the "r" is irrelevant.
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but it does seem that we are seeing politics be played here by your governor and other republican governors. you have not seen a democratic governor take the same posture that you've seen of someone like governor did he tesantis and it familiar echo to the president. are you worried that your governor is playing politics? >> look, it's an apolitical issue. it's an issue that has to be driven by the epidemiologists. we have biostatisticians. we confer with the department of health every monday and after we look at the numbers, after we look at the trends, that's when we make decisions. it was after this week's monday meeting with, by the way, 15 mayors joined me in having a press conference, where many of those cities also joined the city of miami, implementing a mask in public rule. we owe is to our residents, at your brother said, to be
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transparent with them. and we owe it to our residents to give them the best options that we have available to try to stem the tide of spread of covid in our community. as you also said accurately, in miami-dade county, hospitalizations are up, ventilators are up, icus are up. thankfully deaths are not up. we know that deaths are a lagging statistic that sometimes lag four to five weeks after a spike in cases. we're also hopeful because it seems like the majority of the increase in cases is in 18 to 35 year old range. we're hoping that's not something that bleeds into the older population which is of course more vulnerable. >> i'm with you on that. we had these girls on -- "girls," we had young women on who were in jacksonville. they had gone out, again, the governor and the messaging was, you don't really need a mask, you'll be okay. they go out, all 16 of them get covid and seven of the people
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working in the bar. the concern with the younger people, you're right, they're not getting as sick, and many can actually be asymptomatic. but they are more likely to spread it to people who don't handle it as well. and then you have a real problem. what's your message to people tonight? >> my message to them is to follow the rules. to please, please do everything you can to wear masks in public in the city of miami. it is difficult to police, there's no doubt about it. just like it was difficult to police when we had a stay-at-home order, we weren't literally able to knock on every single door to make sure people were at home. the reason we put these recommendations in place is for our own safety and the safety of others. my recommendation and message is to please wear a mask when you're in public so we can do everything we can to make sure we reverse these numbers and go from a situation where we've had record numbers to getting things back under control and continuing to hopefully open our economy safely. >> mr. mayor, you are always offered a platform on this show, not just because you're a republican and i need voices
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from both sides, not just because we are covid cousins, because we both lived through it, but because you have been straight about what's going on in your community and you have not dealt with the politics at all and i respect that and i'm sure your community does as well. i don't usually have better looking men on the show, which is why i like having andrew on, but in your case i have to make an exception. mayor suarez, god bless, best to you and your family. >> god bless. coming up, the ahmaud arbery murder investigation in georgia. of course george floyd matters, of course rayshard brooks matter, they all matter, we forget the names, there are so many of these cases. but in the new indictments, there is a step that's been taken by a community that is rare, and they reveal things that we must review, next. read. a digital foundation from vmware helps you redefine what's possible... now.
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than ten minutes to indict the three men charged killing ahmaud arbery. the young man has been gone for four months. remember, it took months for them to do a damn thing in the case and it only happened because of the video. that got put out. four separate prosecutors went through this case before we got here. let's take it up in cuomo's court. with laura coates. the time will work both ways. ten minutes. damming facts. strong case. bias jury. too much media exposure. can't be fair. how do you play it? >> first of all the idea it took many months for us to get to this point and it wasn't because covid-19 delayed the grand jury. it was because of the deliberate decision on the original prosecutor to say no, we're not going to purr sewer charges. the idea building bias is laughable. one of the very people who is a defendant now charged with the crimes is the one who provided
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the video that shows what happened to the 25 year-old jogging man ahmaud arbery. so you will have the issue when it comes to trial about whether or not you'll find a jury that can be unboyced and has never heard of the case. fat chance of that happening. it does say they kaept be objective about the evidence. at this early stage we're talking about enough to for probable cause and indictment. they have to prove the case with actual evidence that can go in and come into trial. >> right. and that's the beyond a reasonable doubt is the highest standard we have. we'll see if they have the proof to know by what they show. i don't know if you can tell how slick i was. i was looking up the definition of malice murder in georgia. vs. felony murder. as you have explained very well before on the show, felony murder is a speflk list of grave
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felonies that during the course of the felony, someone dies. now they also charged malice murder. which i saw as being the same as just intentional murder. there is one line that i think you'll find interesting. malice is implied when no considerable provocation appears which is a nod by the prosecutor that don't even try to argue justification. and two, where all the circumstances of the killin show an abandoned and malignant heart. even if it does line up statutorily as intentional murder. those words will speak loud to the community. >> they will. it is a signal that don't try the self-defense claim when you are talking about why there was a struggle that ensued. remember one of the things that came out in the hearing was that mr. ahmaud arbery ran until he couldn't run anymore. and then chose to fight. he was pursued by cars that were
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used in an offensive manner. he was trapped. falsely imprisoned with no legal authority to do so. we're not talking about an long list of cases where police officers are the subject of ire for the excessive force. we're talking about civilians with no even colorable law or claim they are acting under l.a. you have the set up. the main difference between the two a felony murder and malice is what your intent was. you don't have to have the intent for somebody to die. as long as you were doing something that was the wrong thing and somebody died you are accountable for the death. the intent is what people hang the hat on. they'll say hold on, i think a bad intent i think premed dated and hiring a hit man and a long period of time to take place to develop the intent. when reality it can form in an instant. it need not take long period of
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time. they may have more evidence that it happened quickly. it was intentional in addition to other charges. >> and don't have to prove motive. it sounds like hate crime or crime. they have to prove you have the intent in the moment. we which will the prosecution. the story we'll tell is going to be the story of what these men thought they knew about ahmaud arbery and why they thought they knew it. that is what it going to be part of the bigger narrative of what must change in the country. thank you for being back. >> thank you. >> we'll be right back. first to put others' lives before your own. and in an emergency, you need a network that puts you first. that connects you to technology to each other and to other agencies. built with and for first responders.
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