public square." welcome to all of you in the united states and around the world. i'm fareed zakaria coming to you live from new york. today on the show, bolton's blockbuster. his new book tells us what he did as national security adviser. but what should he have done? how should he have reacted to donald trump? i'll have a frank conversation with president obama's national security adviser, tom donilon. then this week marked the 75th anniversary of the signing of the united nations charter. is the organization still stuck in 1945?

does it wield any real power in today's changed world? i'll talk to u.n. secretary-general antonio guterres. and the u.s. once pointed to italy as the worst case scenario it hoped to avoid on covid. now america is faring worse than italy was at the peak of the crisis. what in the world happened? but first, here's my take -- as the united states has faltered in its handling of the coronavirus pandemic, many experts have warned that china is using the situation to enhance its influence across the world. this is part of a familiar pattern in which the u.s. has worried that its competitors or adversaries were ten feet tall and growing. but, in fact, a striking feature of the recent international landscape has been china's strategic blunders. the most significant example is

china's recent incursion into india in the valley long under dispute by the to countries for reasons not entirely clear. chinese forces have reportedly taken 23 square miles of arid land, sparking a deadly skirmish. this has triggered a powerful backlash in india. new delhi has tried to maintain good relations with the united states and china. modry has met with xi jing ping many times and often talked about aligning with the u.s. with a foreign policy characterized at multialigned. no one is using that phrase now. media has erupted with anti-china sentiment and analysts are advocating a sharp shift in politics. retired foreign secretary wrote an op-ed arguing that china's neighbors had to stop accommodating beijing's aggressive moves and recognize they need a robust u.s. military presence to help them managing

the situation. he declared that in the post-covid age, enjoying the best of both worlds may no longer be an option. all considered, china's relations with its other neighbors. in the past few months chinese ships have sunk or harassed vip ships from vietnam, malaysia and vietnam in areas those countries consider their exclusive economic zones. china said it was simply patr patrolling its own waters but this kind of behavior has led to a remarkable strategic reversal in the philippines. under president duterte -- to maintain close military ties in the region. well, this month manila announced it would no longer be terminating that agreement in light of political and other developments in the region. all considered, australia, whose economy has benefitted

enormously from china's rice. canberra has sought relations with china. no more. they suspect china of mounting a string of cyber attacks against the country, though china denies it. reports also suggest beijing has intimidated chinese students studying there to remain loyal and it's used businessmen in the country as agents of influence. more recently after australia called for an inquiring into the origins of the coronavirus, china moved to restrict australian imports and discourage tourism there while state media said, australia was gum-stuck to the bottom of china's shoe. china's adopted a confrontational foreign policy in words as well as deeds. foreign ministry spokesman is now famous for his sharp, sometimes abusive language. in the wake of covid-19, he publicly floated a conspiracy theory that the disease might have been brought to china by the u.s. army.

the country's new breed of diplomats, the wolf warriors, as they're called, tend to be just as aggressive and confrontational believing offense is the best defense and heaping scorn on anyone who doubts the country's scandal. the leader who brought the country into a quasi alliance with the united states and initiated economic reforms that produced the chinese miracle had also countled that beijing should not push its weight around. hide your strength, he would say, paraphrasing a chinese proceed verb. in 2005 an adviser to presidnt hu jintao wrote china's peaceful rise to power expanding on the concept of china as a quiet, great power. these ideas might have sounded like good global citizenship but they were rooted in an acute understanding of china's geopolitical position. china is not rising in a vacuum but in a region with other major

countries such as japan and india and australia. every action beijing takes should be considered in relation to the reaction is causes in those nation's capitals. thanks to its actions over the past few years under president xi, china today finds itself in the same strategic situation as the soviet union did during the cold war. surrounded by countries that are growing increasingly hostile to it. go to cnn.com/fareed for a link to my washington post column. and let's get started. we now know all the juicy bits from john bolton's tell-all, but what is the big picture? how should we think about what we learned about president trump and american foreign policy? joining me now is the man who was national security adviser before bolton was, tom donilon.

he served under president obama from 2010 to 2013. welcome, tom. >> good morning, fareed. nice to be with you today. >> so, as a former national security adviser, when you read this book, what was the one thing that surprised you or struck you? >> well, it's an extraordinary book. the national security adviser, of course, is the person in the white house who in most cases spends the most hours a day with the president of the united states. it is the most administrations the first person the president sees in the morning when he comes into work and it's the last person he talks to at night. so, i've never seen anything like the report that we got out of ambassador bolton's book, particularly not about a president still in office. a number of things struck me. there's aubl a high level of dysfunction in the substance of the book, which is disturbing, obviously. one thing as national former security adviser i was struck by is the president's daily

briefings, which had relative to a story that broke overnight on russia. he reported, in fact, the president rarely read the pdb and did not meet on a daily batsz. maybe only once or twice a week with his advisers to discuss what was in the pdb. why is that important? this is the intelligence community and its premiere product, essentially bringing the world to the president on a daily basis. i've given this briefing probably 800 or 900 mornings in the white house. it's the way the president stays on top of the world. it's the way in which the intelligence community can bring strategic and tactical warning to the. the about something that might be emerging. this is a product that's been brought to every president since february of 1946 when harry truman received the first daily briefing. so, it's essential. i really don't think a president can do his job well without having this kind of flow. and when i mentioned strategic warning, things like war, terrorist attacks and, indeed, in this case, most relevantly, a pandemic. we know from reporting in "the

washington post" that it was the intelligence community brought this to the attention of the president at least a dozen times in january and february. if you miss one of these warnings, obviously the impact can be devastating for the country. we now have another example of where the president says he wasn't briefed on this russia stuff. >> let's start with that, to many. the report is the russians have been offering a bounty to afghan, to taliban warriors to kill american troops, coalition troops, but in particular american troops. what do you make of it and what should the president have done? >> yeah. number one is, of course, i don't know -- i've not been privy to the intelligence, but based on the reporting, it's been confirmed by a lot of news outlets, i raise two things. there's a process concerned like we were talking about with respect to whether the president was briefed or not. he tweeted yesterday that neither he nor the vice president were briefed on this.

that seems pretty extraordinary to me, fwin the sensitivity of this intelligence. it seems to be some sort of breakdown in process at the white house, which is pretty significant in that the president wouldn't have been aware of something like this. secondly -- >> maybe it's one of those -- maybist one of those briefings he never got. in other words, it was in the briefing but since -- he seems to take one out of every five, right? he does it once a week. >> well, it shows how dangerous it is not to consistently engage with the world. consistently engage in what your intelligence community, which is the best intelligence service in the world, is telling you. it shows you the danger here of not consistently engaging with the intelligence. but the substance is also important, i think, fareed on this. it really shows us where we are with russia. and i'd say three things about that in just 30 seconds here if i might. the united states and russia are actively hostile across the board. whether it be in europe and ukraine and libya. we now know in afghanistan, whether it be in terms of threats to our election. we are actively hostile with

russia. secondly, putin's not deterred. in my encounters with putin, it's very clear he sizes up his interlook tour and he makes costs and benefits to the steps he's going to take. in this case he hasn't been deterred. we've taken a number of steps, which are inexplicable given the intelligence and the overall state of the u.s./russia relations. this briefing, according to "the new york times," was presented in march but at the end of may the president canceled the g-7 meeting, decided to pull half our troops out of germany and, indeed, said he was going to invite president putin to the white house for a reconvened g-7 meeting in the fall, which is extraordinary given where we are. we had a process breakdown, obviously, and the substance is inexplicable to me. >> let me ask you about the other great power involved, china. trump is now clearly decided that he is going to run on an

anti-china platform. that that has become that -- that foreign policy has become part of his domestic re-election campaign. how dangerous is this in actual terms of foreign policy, war and peace? >> yeah. well, i mean, it's quite clear that the president made a pivot during the first part of this year from a really embracing president xi and his performance on covid and moved during the course of this election year to harsh criticism of the chinese with respect to the covid crisis and its other begirigins. it's clear coming out of this crisis that the united states and china will probably be in terms of its relationship at the lowest point in a decade since the 1970s when we established relations with china. i think we're heading on the current course towards a bifurcated world in most aspects of the relationship. it's going to be the most important challenge for the next

president, whoever he is, that we have to -- we have to face moving forward. it's -- there's really no challenge more important for the next president. >> let me ask quickly, tom, we have 30 seconds or so left. should bolton have resigned or testified in some way against the president? >> yeah, i think we had during the course of his tenure and after his tenure an impeachment inquiry. he should have participated in the impeachment inquiry, i think. nobody's as sensitive to me as i am to executive prerogatives and privileges, but clearly he had important things to say about the direct topic of the impeachment inquiry. he said he had additional things to say, which would have caused them to expand the inquiry. he clearly had in his own mind resolved the executive privilege and confidentiality issue because he had a book manuscript he was proceeding with.

i think he should have -- he should have participated, should have found a way to participate in the constitutionally convened process to look at the trump presidency and its conduct because, again, he had -- it's clear he had resolved whatever executive privilege issues might have been or confidentiality issues that might have been presented. i think it was his obligation to participate in the constitutionally convened process. >> tom donilon, a wealth of insight. thank you so much. >> thank you, fareed. next on "gps," friday was a big anniversary for the u.n. 75th anniversary of the signing of the charter. i will talk to the secretary-general of the united nations next.

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special fortieth anniversary presentation of a capitoly fourthfourth!s for a with your hosts john stamos and vanessa williams and performances from coast to coast. featuring: patti labelle, john fogerty, the temptations, andy grammer yolanda adams, renée fleming, trace adkins brian stokes mitchell, chrissy metz, mandy gonzalez, and a tribute to our frontline workers. it's the fortieth anniversary of a capitol fourth. saturday july fourth, eight- seven central. only on pbs.

75 years and two days ago, on june 26, 1945, the united nations' charter was signed in san francisco. today the u.n. has 193 member states, a freshly refurbished modernist headquarters in new york and an annual budget of $3 billion. but has it lived up to the hopes that the signers had for it three-quarters of a century ago, to maintain international peace, to develop friendly relations between nations and to achieve international cooperation. joining am he now is the secretary-general of the united nations, antonio guterres. mr. secretary-general, pleasure to have you on. >> great pleasure to be here with you. >> so, it seems we confront a sort of fascinating paradox. we confront a pandemic that is, by nature, global.

it respects no boundaries. and yet it has caused countries to turn even more inward. even the european union countries shut down their borders to one another, travel bans are in place and, of course, the countries like the u.s. and china having increasingly tense relations. how do we take a global crisis to create more global cooperation? >> i think we need to make sure that world leaders understand the fragility of our planet and the fragility of humankind today. we have microscopic virus. it's putting us on our knees. as you rightly said, the problem is for the moment, we have world leaders unable to come together, we have relationship between the three main powers as dysfunctional as ever, more dysfunctional than ever. we see the difficulty in making the council agree on what is

necessary to solve the most dramatic conflicts at the moment. and we have seen in response to covid-19, each country going its own way. not only in relation to the borders, but even in the strategy to fight the virus and strategies to open up and launch the recovery. so, i do believe this is a crucial moment. and the only way to defeat the covid, the only way to defeat climate change, the only way to put -- in cyberspace, the only way to protect ourselves against nuclear proliferation, the only way to advance our fragility is to work together. if not, the covid will go on from an area of the world to another. it came from china to europe to the west, now going south, then it come back a second wave. the global economy will open up and then close again, the borders, et cetera. in instead of a recovery that could take five years, with he may face a depression. this is so dramatic that people

need to understand that it is not relevant compared with the need to come together and address these challenges. that is what, in my position as secretary-general of the united nations, it's my duty to permanently tell leaders, time to stop with this division. time to come together because the problems are defeating us. >> in an interview with "the economist," you made an interesting point. you said in the last few decades, it had actually been easier to mobilize the world because of an era of american supremacy. and you pointed to the east timor crisis and they could look at other crisis. if the united states said it was engaged and willing to provide resources, particularly military resources, sort of everything fell into place. so, are we now -- is the reality now that we are in a kind of multipolar world in which other countries will simply not accept that kind of leadership? how would you characterize the

world today? >> i think we are not yet in an organized multipolar way. it would be good to have an organized multipolar world. we're in a world where power relations are unclear. i think it's very important to maintain and engage the united states in a world that will hopefully will become more multipolar in the future. again, multipolarity itself is not peace. europe before the first world war was multipolar. in the absence of multilateral forms of government the result was confrontation and war. so, we need a multipolar world, but we need more and more multilateral forms of governance. we need strategies. >> let me ask you about an awkward question for you, which is the leading power still, the country that founded the united nations, the united states, has an administration now that is actively undermining it.

president trump came to the u.n. and said the future does not belong to globalists, it belongs to nationalists. he has withdrawn the united states from the world health organization. he's gutted the world trade organizations' arbitration process. can the world survive an american administration that is trying to, you know, dismantle some of these structures of international cooperation? >> i think we need to be able to combine two things. one is 12 -- an america re-engaged in world affairs, but the second is for the international organizations like the u.n. to understand they also need to reform themselves. and i believe that if you combine those things, a clear will of reform. i mean, we were founded 75 years ago. the world has changed. there are many aspects in which we are dysfunctional. we need to correct those aspects. i think if we are totally determined to it, it will be

good to bring back the united states into a more engaged attitude to international organizations. if it looks at regional organizations, it's true we are now working together but it's based on the goodwill of leaders. we need to have a much more institutional framework in which organizations work together because we cannot distinguish peace, economy, social aspects, everything is interlinked. we need an exclusive multilateralism. >> do you think china wants an open, reformed united nations that promotes genuine human rights, even values even democratic values? can the u.n. system work with a china that becomes the second most powerful country in the world, perhaps even the largest economy in the world? >> i think that as the united states is essential, china is essential in a world order that needs to combine the efforts of

all countries. i will recall you that the paris agreement was only possible because of the american/chinese agreement in relation to change at the time. i truly believe there must be a functional relationship between the united states and china. a functional relationship among different powers in order to be able to make the world be effective in addressing the challenges of today. having said so, the human rights dimension is a core dimension of the united nations. and china will also have to accept that. and it's fair to recognize that china is done a lot to economic rights. taking out of poverty hundreds of millions of people is an important achievement in this regard. on the other hand, in civil and political rights, china has a long way to go. >> mr. secretary-general, honored to have you on, sir. thank you. >> thank you very much. it was a pleasure. next on "gps" -- there are just over 3,000 hours until the 2020 election here in america.

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we've all seen that poll that came out this week. donald trump is 14 points behind joe biden. it's a "new york times" poll. and i have that newspaper's nate cohn to help us understand it and all the rest. nate, so let me ask you the question that everybody is asking asking, why is this poll different from any other poll? what make this is one feel

different than "the hill" which showed hillary clinton ahead four years ago? >> there's no comparison between these that had hillary clinton up four years ago. she was up by four points in the national poll. as you said, joe biden is up by 14 points. he's up by smaller amounts in the critical battleground states. if the polls were just as young wrong as they were four years ago, joe biden would still be elected president and comfortab comfortably. it is materially different. >> the polls that went wrong the last time, as you pointed out to me before, were the state polls. the national poll was roughly correct. we have state-by-state polls now. the mistake that was made the last time around, and i know this because we've talked about it on this program before, was that the state-by-state polls did not account for enough

non-college educated whites and the undecided vote was three times as large as normal, and that broke differently than people expected. so, those two issues, college educated versus non-college educated and the large number of undecideds. do you think you factored those in the poll this time? >> the poll certainly factors the educational factors. only 33% have a college degree. that's 15 points lower than the average state poll of 2016. it's in line with what the national poll showed last time and what our national survey shows this time. at least as far as our polls are concerned, i'm not remotely worried there are too few white college educated voters. they make up a majority of the respondents in the rust belt states and joe biden is still ahead. the undecideds are a different question. they do appear to lean republican in a way they didn't so obviously lean republican four years ago.

they're likelier to say they voted for president trump last time. they're likelier to say they considered themselves a republican. but they're undecided for a republic reason. they disapprove of the president's performance. i don't think that makes the poll wrong and it's possible they could return to the. the in the final account. for now, they're not undecided because they're shy about their support for the president. they're undecided because they're dissatisfied with the president. >> so, let's talk about that point. you said they might come back. historically how accurate are polls about this far out? >> they're not particularly accurate. you know, on average i think there's an eight percentage point error between polls taken this far out and the final surveys ahead -- and the final election result. now, i'll point out that error has declined significantly over time. we don't have errors that are so significant over the last 20 years or so, in part because american politics has become more polarized. while in contrast in the '60s and '70s or even in the 1988

race between michael dukakis and george h.w. bush, there are huge swings in the race that i don't think we have real reason to expect. i won't tell you the race can't change considerably over the next four months. the race changed over the four prior months. i see no reason to be confident the polls we see now will be the same as they are in october. >> yeah, things have polarized so much that there is less movement toward the end. what's the part of the poll that when you particularly to the internal demographics that struck you the most? >> i was most surprised by the extent of the president's losses among white voters. it's such a -- in many ways this moment feels like it's very much about race. the coronavirus is disproportionately affected communities of color, and in particular african-americans. obviously race and criminal justice involving non-white americans. the change in the president's support is overwhelmingly

concentrated among white voters, even though it would not seem to be a moment that disproportionately affects them. >> the white backlash hasn't happened. if anything, it's the opposite. let me ask you one final question. florida, he's down nine points in florida in this poll. would it be fair to say if the president loses florida, essentially it's impossible for him to win the electoral college? he would literally have to run the table to win? >> he would have to run the table. and it's -- given that florida is so representative of the country, it's hard to imagine how the president could lose in the state of florida and still be doing well in the midwest. there are plenty of midwestern white voters who have basically relocated to florida. and, you know, the president's fallen behind in florida for a reason that would affect him even more in the midwest. he's doing quite poorly among older white voters. and it's obvious why that would hurt him in florida but it's also fairly obvious why that would hurt him in the midwest. >> nate cohn, always a pleasure

to have you on. you make this make sense in a really engaging way. thank you. >> thank you for having me. next on "gps," where once america was pleased to have not as big a covid crisis as italy, today cases are growing in the united states much faster than they were in italy at its peak of its crisis. what in the world is going on? when we come back. place. but when you have the chase mobile app, your bank can be virtually any place. so, when you get a check... you can deposit it from here. and you can see your transactions and check your balance from here. you can detect suspicious activity on your account from here. and you can pay your friends back from here. so when someone asks you, "where's your bank?" you can tell them: here's my bank. or here's my bank. or, here's my bank. because if you download and use the chase mobile app, your bank is virtually any place. so visit chase.com/mobile.

eu officials tell cnn that they will likely block most u.s. travelers from coming to their certifica territory. it is a stunning turn-around from mid-march when president trump banned european travelers from coming to the u.s. europe was then seen as being at having an out of control outbreak. now that risk is right here in america. how did this happen? joining me now is holly jarman from the university of michigan school of public health. holly, we've all seen versions of the chart, right, where the

european cases, eu cases going down, down, clearly flattened the curve, more than flattened. in the u.s. case, the curve never quite flattened and is now rising again. what do you think fundamentally explains those two lines, the european line and the american line? >> well, i think there's a couple of reasons behind what we see here in terms of the very different experiences between the u.s. and european countries when it comes to the first wave of covid-19. first of all, political leadership really matters. especially the ability of central governments to bring everyone together and to coordinate responses. i mean, even across regions of their own countries but also coordinating responses between the different systems we think are important for dealing with a pandemic. so, health care, public health and also systems of social support for people. >> so, you said a number of

things. let me piece those out. the first one you talked about is centralization. we understand the u.s. has a crazy quilt patchwork of central, state, local, thousands and thousands of different authorities. the second you said was about health care and public health. i want to drill down. the u.s. is supposed to have a great public health system. johns hopkins ranked it the best in the world. we think of the cdc and the nih as being these jewels. is what you're saying, that the american system is very well geared for, you know, maybe individual health care for an individual person, particularly someone who can pay for it, but it doesn't have a kind of integrated system the way a state-run or even a state paid system would have? >> yes. so, our public health system in the united states, as you say, is very fragmented. we have all the fragmentation that comes from having lots and

lots of local governments with state public health functions and state public health functions. and fragmentations from the health care system with lots of private provisions. in a number of european countries, public health functions and things that the health care system does are better integrated. and so i think you need to look at both the health care system and the public health system together. our public health system in the u.s. not only is it separate from health care, but it's been consistently underfunded. >> do you think the kind of inequality plays a role here, by which i mean the american system, american society is more unequal? of course, we famously do not have universal health care. what that means, obviously, there are very poor people who maybe didn't get tested, didn't -- were worried about whether they could afford a test, whether they could afford the care. s and so a system that leaves

people out in an epidemic or pandemic is a huge problem because if they get infected, you know, it's going to coarse through the whole system. >> yes. we have to be clear that europe has some of the same structural inequality that we have in the united states. but i think some of the systems that are designed to tackle inequality have been used effectively by governments during the pandemic. so, in germany they were able to move government employees from other duties to help do contact tracing and reach out to people who have been exposed to the virus. some governments, like in spain and italy, took a little bit more control of private health provisions to help expand the capacity in their health care systems. in some countries, i think ireland and france and estonia, actually, suspended some user charges and co-pays people have to pay to use health care. and other countries including

portugal, france, belgium helped publicly finance health systems including in some places residents who are not residence of those places. europe has a lot of problem with inequality but some of the systems they have to tackle social inequality are a bit more robust than they have been and are in the united states. and i think they were used more effectively by governments in some cases. >> you make a very interesting point about paid sick leave. in europe, in general, if you were sick, you were much more willing to stay home, which had the effect of not infecting people, because you knew you would still get paid. in the u.s. people are reluctant to stay home because they lose wages. >> i think, so. i think this is a really important component of policy we don't talk about very much. we don't just have to test people who might have been exposed to covid-19. we don't just have to do contact tracing. we don't just have to isolate people. we have to actually support

those people to stay and be -- to stay in isolation. thing like paid sick leave and basic rights for employees are really important. some european countries try to put in place or bolster the facilities that they already had to protect employees, the idea that you provide people with health care, social support, income replacement, and uphold their rights as employees is a really important part of making any kind of advice from the government or lockdown and advice on physical distancing or lockdown much more effective. >> holly jarman, pleasure to have you on. thank you. next on "gps," donald trump has shown again this week that he thinks the way to make america great again is to keep immigrants out. when we come back, i will show you with facts why he's wrong. want a daily dose of fareed and his team? now you can get it with fareed's

global briefing. the newsletter that gives you the best insight and analysis on global affairs. go to cnn.com/fareed to sign up. but a resilient business can be ready for it. a digital foundation from vmware helps you redefine what's possible... now. from the hospital shifting to remote patient care in just 48 hours... to the university moving hundreds of apps quickly to the cloud... or the city government going digital to keep critical services running. you are creating the future-- on the fly. and we are helping you do it. vmware. realize what's possible. they will, but with accident forgiveness allstate won't raise your rates just because of an accident. cut! is that good?

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and now for the last look -- >> we will make america great again! >> make america great again may be trump's trademark, but there's one area where america is already undoubtedly great. high tech. yet ironically, it is the industry that trump is now disrupting, threatening to make america's greatest companies uncompetitive by denying them their most violation resource -- human capital. this week he put a freeze on visas that allow tech companies to recruit highly talented workers from abroad. trump claims he's putting americans first by reserving jobs for those who lost employment as a result of the covid-19 crisis. but this is nonsense. first, there have been no tech jobs lost. while the u.s. unemployment rate overall spiked to a stunning 14.7% in april, census data analyzed by the national foundation for american policy actually found that the

unemployment rate in the tech sector has declined since the pandemic began. despite all of those jobless people in america, there were still over 120,000 openings in the tech sector in april. the tech industry remains in a constant, almost desperate need for enough highly skilled workers to keep it going. and we know that the american tech industry has been built by immigrants. first or second generation immigrants have either led or founded more than half of america's leading tech companies, including google, amazon, oracle and apple. currently both google and microsoft are run by immigrants and the senior ranks of all the big tech companies are filled with the world's smartest people to whom america gave a chance. it's no surprise, then, that trump's proclamation drew the ire of the likes of google, amazon, tesla. the truth is these companies will have to go where the talent

is. as cisco's ceo said, this may be a canadian jobs creation act. can you go to toronto and hire people there and work quite effective effectively. that is the risk we run if we start eliminating these visa programs. the real winner will not be canada, but china and india. they produce hundreds of thousands of engineers every year. the best have tended to come to study in america and stay here. now, they will go back home and start those companies over there, keeping the innovation, profits and jobs far from the united states. what donald trump is really doing is making china great again. thanks to all of you for being part of my program this week. i will see you next week. don't forget, if you miss a show, go to cnn.com/fareed for a link to my itunes podcast.

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new york and this is "reliable sources" our weekly look at the story behind the story. coming up, kirsten powers, nick clegg and many others. the campaign being organized on social media. we have a top facebook executive, nick clegg, standing by. he'll join me for an exclusive interview. later this hour, two journalism legends, pbs's bill moyers on threats to america and former "good morning america" host joan

lunden.