contracting the virus. he was 72 years old. our thoughts go out to every family that has been impacted by this virus. the news continues now. i want to hand it over to chris for "cuomo prime time." chris? >> thank you, anderson. this is "cuomo prime time." sadly today was not the day this president decided to create a national response to a pandemic that is holding this country back and literally making us sick. we just shattered our previous single-day record of coronavirus cases. more than 55,000 infections reported just today. and trump just trying to play you once again. this time about schools. saying the tough talk. he's going to crank up pressure to get all schools open this fall. >> we're very much going to put pressure on governors and everybody else to open the schools, to get them open, and it's very important. it's very important for our country.

it's very important for the well-being of the student and the parents. it's going to be a much better climate than it is right now. we're on the right side of things. debra, i think we can say that. a lot of work has been done. we understand what we're doing very, very well. >> it's just not true. let's start with what matters most. where's the plan? i'm going to put pressure on the governors. what about putting pressure on yourself? you are the biggest branch of government. you have the most resources. you have the most experts. why aren't you doing this? if you're going to talk the talk, walk the walk. don't put it on the states. and we're on the right side? he says we're at 130 dead. don't forget the thousand. 130,000 dead. two facts, a key model now shows more than 208,000 of us will be dead by november. however, if 95% of the

populations that are at risk, okay, if they wear masks, and history will never forgive this president for discouraging mask use until so late. but if we do it where we need to do it, that mortality number could drop to around 160,000 or so. that's, you know, 40,000-plus lives that could be saved. also, we have to understand the tricks people play with numbers. death rates are going down. but why? one, we're getting better treating the worst cases. thank god. and we have seen more young people getting the virus. now, that's good for death toll because they don't get hit as hard in general. but they can be just as contagious, and often they are asymptomatic so they don't know they have it. but when they give to old aunt betty or someone with diabetes or somebody else because they don't think there's anything wrong, they can be very

dangerous as spreaders. to be clear the pandemic is doing anything but abating. the spread is increasing in large part because we have no national plan. you don't have to take it from me. i'm just an echo. fauci, other experts. in fact, all the experts in the government -- the head of the cdc picked by trump, they're all saying it. and mark my words, they will be silenced, even fauci. but there will be no plan. but don't fear. truth will never be silenced. we'll always know the numbers, and we'll always tell you the realities. trump says open the schools, and everybody should applaud. who doesn't want that? everybody wants the schools open. but talk is cheap. we need a plan. silence. except their back door plan to screw more immigrants. he has no plan to get schools open, but if they don't reopen, his guys say, then people who have student visas, they should stay home. boy, they thought about that.

they don't think about how to reopen the schools, though. why? because the plan is to deny, lie and divide. he did the same thing when it came to reopening, remember? he said i will insist. what did he say, state issue, testing for everyone, hooray, and then what, state issue. ppe, we're going to have the best ppe. we're going to have the best ppe. he didn't get any -- he got one place in maine making ppe here. we all want our kids in school, we all want to reopen, and work as we want and buy and sell and create commerce and make memories. life is so short, but it all requires a plan. without one with something like schools you get where florida is. a state now hobbled by record cases ordering public schools to reopen late next month despite the governor refusing to even release the county by county hospitalization rates. give me one good reason of

hiding the metric of case growth. one good reason. and trump plans to go and celebrate him this friday. oh, you're doing great. celebrate the wrong way. that talk is toxic, and here is the antiseptic truth. we are five months into this pandemic. record hospitalizations, only metric that matters. why? because if you're sick you're sick. 31 states with skyrocketing cases. nearly 3 million sick in this country alone. let's hone in on making the right choices a former cdc director, tom frieden. doc, what don't people get about this no national plan criticism because it seems to wash over people. >> i think it's really challenging. you're right. we don't have a plan. we don't have clear leadership. there isn't someone directly in charge. chris, at my organization we

work with countries all over the world. the first thing we say is have an infinite management system. have one person in charge reporting to the head of state. come up with a plan, and then report publicly on the website, on the dashboard of the key indicators every week so that everyone's on the same page. so we know are we getting better, are we getting worse. how long is it taking tests to come back, what proportion of contacts are being connected with within four days of an indexed patient being diagnosed? how many people are getting disease when they're already quarantined? what's happening with our outbreaks? the u.s. is an outlier here. we're a laggard, and it always hasn't been this way. the u.s. has been a leader in the past. so i think you're absolutely right. we need a strategy, we need a plan, we need accountability, and we need to recognize we're not going to get out of this for a long time. as this is going on there are hundreds of thousands of people being infected.

if you think about how long someone stays infectious could be a week, ten days. so if you're talking about hundreds of thousands of people infected, you're talking about more than a million people infectious today in the united states walking around somewhere. and that's going to take a long time to recede. >> the counter is -- >> and it's going to take longer if we don't deny it. >> these doctors and scientists they get all worked up over possibilities, but the reality is death numbers are going down here. it's got to be good. we have to be on the right side of things if that's true. what is the truth? >> it's certainly great there are fewer deaths now than there were before. the problem is that you have to look at what's really going to happen. what's really going to happen with all the infected people, yes, it's mostly many young adults where the increase is, but they're not going to stay just with young adults. it's going to infect other people.

there are vulnerable people at ages of 20 to 60. we've seen this past week some tragic deaths of young people, didn't have prior illnesses as far as they knew, and this is not a benign illness. yes, for most people they're going to be fine, but some people are going to be really sick and some people are going to die. the death rate is going to lag with increase in cases. because it's the first wave of this wave, it's going to lag by a month, two, maybe even three. but the deaths will come. we have to take this so seriously. we have to recognize that every case needs to be attended to so it doesn't spread, so we can stop this and get back to schools and work and economic growth and health care. >> so, schools, you know, we're in the middle of the summer but fall is going to come. in fact, it comes early, the school season and even before september in some states like florida. now, what is the trick to reopening schools?

>> actually, chris, we're releasing a brief on this tomorrow, but i'll give you a preview. >> thank you. >> we agree that the question isn't whether to open schools but how. and that means, first, the single most important thing that can be done to get a school open is for the whole community to get together and control covid. so it's not exploding in that community. because if you have exploding covid in a community you're not going to be able to open the schools. it's not going to happen. could you open schools today -- >> but they're going to put pressure, though. didn't you hear him? the president said i'm going to put pressure on you, frieden. >> how did that work out for texas and arizona and florida? one step forward, two, three, four steps back. the only way to do this is to make sure we do it smart, do it right. protecting students, protecting staff, in addition to getting the virus under better control in the community protecting students and staff, protecting the vulnerable, doing what we can to reduce the risk, recognizing it's not going to be

zero. risk isn't going to be zero, but that doesn't mean we have to close. nor does it mean we have to charge forward and open. we can't put people in harm's way knowingly. that's not an ethical thing to do, and it wouldn't work even if we tried. people would refuse to go. so what if means is keeping vulnerable students and staff out, means making schools as safe as possible. it means being creative, continuing teleschool where it's possible for high school kids, for example. except where you have very low case numbers. it means figuring out how to increase distance in schools. it means masking everyone in the school. it means making sure that teachers don't congregate among themselves. we are seeing outbreaks in schools in some places. >> right. >> so it's not without risk to open schools, but it's also not without risk to close them because really bad things happen. >> absolutely. >> in education, health and

social outcomes. >> i'll tell you i'm no scientist but i am a parent. and this remote schooling thing is not one size fits all, it's going to create big, big imbalances in this society. so we have to figure out different ways to help communities get back to some semblance of normal, but you're right, the key is how. tough talk, not enough. dr. frieden, thank you. >> thank you. >> all right. if conditions are what they are today in florida, the superintendent of florida's miami-dade county says he won't allow that new order to reopen schools next month to take effect. but how would they even know what's safe when the state won't give out hospitalization numbers county by county? have you heard what florida's teachers are saying about this? you will next. ♪

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fact one, all of us want to open schools, and we want to do it safely. fact two, the hard part of this is how do we make it safe? trump has nothing for you on how. >> so we're going to be putting a lot of pressure on open your schools in the fall. >> how about putting pressure on himself for a change to do his

job as a self-described war-time president? come up with a plan. it didn't work with reopening. it didn't work with testing. it didn't work with ppe. you have to do more than talk. without a smart plan on schools you get florida mandating all brick and mortar, you know, obviously physically built schools, open five days a week starting next month. this from one of the worst hot spots in the country where the governor still won't reveal county by county hospitalization numbers. he gave some of the most tiresome answers i've ever heard to a direct question today on that because he doesn't have a good answer. you know who agrees, frederick ingram, president of florida's largest teachers union, and tracy merlin, an elementary teacher. these were the people that were setting up to go in there with the kids, right?

the parents were not going to be in there with all these kids we don't know every day. we've got to make it safe for them, so let's discuss the issues. frederick, tracy, thank you very much for being with me. so, in terms of the state of play in your state, where is the union's head in terms of your concerns about going back to school? >> so, chris, thank you for having me, and i appreciate being on your show. but let me tell you what we have here in the state of florida. we have 7,347 new cases today. we have 63 deaths, covid-related deaths, and we also have 50,000-plus over the last seven days. we're not going forward. we're going backwards, and we have a governor who has tethered himself to the president of the united states. who is uniquely defined by his secretary of education, betsey devos. we've been given no guidance, no regulations that makes sense to reopen our schools, and in the middle of a pandemic we're being told we have to reopen schools come hell or high-water, brick

and mortar being one of those options. and so what we want from our governor is to lead. we don't want him to follow this president nor betsy devos because there is zero credibility there. >> tracy, the good news is they'll tell you mostly they're younger people like you getting sick, and you don't get so sick so the death rate is going down. so don't worry, you'll be fine. >> well, first off, chris, it is an honor and i'm humbled to be here. i'm used to having an audience of my 20 second graders in a classroom, so this certainly is a way to amplify teachers voices, and we need that right now because for so long teachers have been left out of decision-making tactics. what i will say is we are in florida. we are the land of the unfunded mandate. there are things coming out of tallahassee that are expected to take place in our classrooms, in our counties, in our schools and there's no money behind it. we can't work off of empty words. we need to have specific plans

in place so that i am not exposing myself to this pandemic. when i started teaching we were worried about kids passing notes in school. we were worried about kids chewing gum. now we're dealing with pandemics walking into our classroom and shooters. this is very harsh reality for teachers across the country. and, unfortunately, without the leadership that is needed we're not getting the money. we're not getting the specifics. and there is no guarantee that we're going to be safe. my whole path ever since marjory stoneman douglas, which is about 20 minutes from where i live, has been about the students' safety. and i don't think as a nurturer, as a maternal teacher that i can guarantee that my children are safe without the proper things in place. this morning when i was looking on social media, teachers were posting about where can i get a living will? not what are we going to do for science this year or social studies? who is the person i can reach

out to for a living will? that is completely unacceptable. the other thing that i wanted to share with you is that we are teachers who teach science. my job in my classroom is to look at my students and see what needs do they have, how can i improve what they're learning, take that information and come up with a customized individualized plan for the children so they can make their learning games. we are giving a one-stop approach how to deal with this problem and it's simply not working. there are so many variables that have not been addressed but the main thing is the funding and the safety. i'm also a mom. i don't want my daughter coming home with any of that. i've been home since march because that's what we were told to do, to go home, to stay safe, get some fresh air and exercise. let's start with a mask ordinance. perhaps some of the scientific things we're hearing about could help to make our community heal. what about getting rid of testing? i'm sorry, chris, i have a lot to say. >> listen, i love it. you're used to talking to the

elementary kids. you just had to bring it down a few iq points for me and i'm picking up everything you're saying. it's perfect. they'll come to the union and say you'll get your plans, you'll get your plans, but we have to reopen the schools because people can't go back to work. fred, you know that. we're all going to have to figure this out, and the president is pressuring us to do it, so we'll have to do it. we're going to have to do it. what's the response of the union? >> so, i will say this. i'm a high school band director. i love my kids. we want to back in school, in front of the classroom, teaching our kids. we don't do this for money. we do this because we love our kids, but we need to do this safely. this is life or death. this is about somebody dying. >> what's the average age of the teacher? >> the average age of a teacher between 35 and 45 in the state of florida. in the state of florida. >> all right, so you start getting -- at the top end of that you start getting a little more risk but basically a healthy population.

>> yeah, but, chris, listen, let me just add this. what if you have a healthy teacher in school taking care of elderly parents? what if you have a teacher that is in school that has a sick child at home? and what if you have a pregnant teacher, you know, somebody with some underlying issues, they could have anything. so we're not answering those questions. >> nope. >> listen, there's high anxiety, people are angry because this is one size fits all kind of strategy, and we need leadership. we need guidance, and we need to have our voices at the table. you can't come up with a plan in tallahassee and think that's going to be the best fit for everybody. and, in fact, our nation is waiting on guidance and we're not getting that anywhere in our federal government, anywhere in our state governments, and our public schools we know are the cornerstones of our democracy. >> right. >> and if we want hope for our kids, then we better attune to our public schools and get this right. our kids are depending on us to get this right. >> a lot of your kids are depending on this to eat. you know, tracy, you know, we

ignore this reality very often, but you have a huge population of public school kids. they need those meals. you know, the one or two that they get a day in that school may be their best bet at nutrition all day long. and the remote schooling thing not only does it not address the feeding issue, tracy, but as a parent that ain't one size fits all either. >> absolutely. >> it has been hard for us to have kids, even at these great elite schools that they go to up here in new york city, we got crushed with this zoom teaching thing. very hard for families. >> i agree with you, chris. and here's what i would say. broward county did a great job having meals disseminated to students who needed them. there were pick-ups that were available for the students. but i want to address the parents role during the online learning for just a moment. as a parent because i do have a daughter, it was okay with me if she didn't catch every concept because i knew she was alive and i knew she was healthy. it was more important for me to make sure that we kept her busy, that we tried to support her in

any way that we could instead of sending her into basically another epicenter. and so what we have right now is we do have a balance. but as a classroom teacher -- and i know there are so many fabulous teachers out there listening -- think about all those times a child has been sick and a parent hasn't been able to come and pick them up. think about the times they've forgotten their lunch at home or they needed something and it hasn't come back in. we have so many questions about what does this look like. you know, if god forbid somebody has it in a classroom, what does that look like? we can't even get a substitute teacher not during a pandemic. so now you have a population that is relying on teachers, and i hate to say this, but if the teachers get sick there's not even going to be an online learning opportunity for your children. >> right. right. >> so as much as you were frustrated with having to wear a hat of being the educator at home, it gave a perspective about what the teachers do.

and so if we need to be kept around to help ensure that our next generation of kids come out with the knowledge that they need to be successful adults, the first thing we have to look at is how do you have a safe classroom? when we look at the hierarchy of needs, the second element of the pyramid is safety. >> mazlos's hierarchy of need, that's what i'm talking about. we're going to end the interview on that. that's very tall grass for this show, but you are right. maslow's pyramid of needs, you have to be safe, you have to have security, and have to have education. obviously that's going to be the building block for everything. we've got to get it right. teachers matter too much and we haven't done enough for you for too long. frederick ingram, good luck to you. thank you for representing the union. and tracy, thank you very much in being the heart and soul of teachers who mean everything to our kids all over this country. god bless you both. we'll stay on the story. >> chris, thank you. >> thank you. >> we are not disposable.

thank you. all right. hires a description you don't want offered of you. a sociopath with no concept of working for anything. a complete fraud who would mock their own ailing father and screw their own family. that is how trump is described by a psychologist who has observed him for decades. what does a psychologists know? oh, yeah, she's also his niece. mary trump said she had to write everything she knows down because she is scared about what her uncle is doing and may do. what's in the book? cnn has it next. you can't predict the future. but a resilient business can be ready for it. a digital foundation from vmware helps you redefine what's possible... now. from the hospital shifting to remote patient care in just 48 hours... to the university moving hundreds of apps quickly to the cloud... or the city government going digital to keep critical services running. you are creating the future--

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the scathing new tell-all from president trump's niece is now set for release next week. but guess what? cnn already has a copy. mary trump's book is called "too

much and never enough: how my family created the world's most dangerous man." in it she accuses donald trump's father of creating a toxic family dynamic. offers her view as a clinical psychologist on why she believes the president is a sociopath who sees cheating as normal behavior. she even alleges the president cheated on his s.a.t.s. white house denies that. she writes, quote, unfortunately even though maryanne, his sister, had been doing his take his test and donald worried that his grade point average which put him far from the top of his class would scuttle his efforts to get accepted. to hedge his bets he enlisted joe shapiro, a smart kid with a reputation for being a good test taker, to take his sats for him. donald who never lacked for funds paid his buddy well. while mary trump isn't publicly

commenting because of her restraining order, the white house as i said denied the allegation today calling it completely false. of course, what's their basis on it? trump. the book's publication next tuesday comes two weeks earlier than planned based on high demand now that a court has cleared the way for its release. it is quite a damning portrait by someone who knows our wartime president very, very well. it certainly does at a minimum tell you maybe why he can so easily tell you something like coronavirus would magically disappear. you're not tethered to the truth it's easy to say. i'll tell you what is disappearing. icu beds in states like arizona. we have the mayor of phoenix here to let you and others across this country know how they got in such dire straits next. t-mobile and sprint have merged.

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arizona's maricopa county is now in mea culpa mode. see the red? apologizing to its citizens for getting crushed by covid-19. let me show you the state map. see the red? the state hit another horrible milestone today with a record 117 new deaths in a single day. but look at this. maricopa county, most cases in the entire state by far. icu beds there are filling up so fast experts worry hospitals are days away from having to use crisis standards of care. unbelievable in the united states of america. can't happen. but how do we stop it? joining us now is mayor kate gallego of phoenix, the largest city, of course, in maricopa county, not to mention the

state. mayor, i know how busy you are. thank you for coming to prime time. >> thanks for having me. >> so what do you now know was wrong, and what do you need to make it right? >> arizona was one of the last states to go to stay at home and our governor was one of the first to lift the order. when he lifted the order we went straight to crowded nightclubs. we had advertisements with beautiful people saying reclaim your freedom. our young people want out and they are responsible for our largest growth in our cases. it's my own demographic, 20 to 44. right now we are asking for help from our federal government. there's a huge shortage of testing in phoenix. people have had to wait up to 13 hours in a car while it is hot. we are predicting highs that could be 117 degrees this weekend. imagine sitting in a car while you're aching and sick already waiting for a test. i've been asking fema to come in and do a testing surge. the health and human services department is doing one in

baton rouge. i've invited them to phoenix. we need a federal partner. >> and in terms of how to get out of this -- in maricopa county i think it was on june 20th the county effectively put in a required face covering rule. so given the lag of this you should be getting close in a week or so to seeing if that made any change. >> we know that face coverings slow the spread of covid-19 and that was important. my city council and i implemented one for the city before the county did and we know it will make a difference. but i have been concerned with people in my community who traveled to parts of arizona where there isn't a face mask requirement. i hope people will take this seriously because we can save lives together. >> why arizona and others places reopened too soon. they haven't seen the kind of concentration that you and of course texas is dealing with as well.

now, it leads to an ugly suspicion. well, you know where those states are, right? they're on the border. maricopa county, that is illegal central if you look at the language of the fringe right. those are the people that are making you sick, all the people that shouldn't be here. what's your response? >> if you look at what epidemiologists are telling us, it is tracked to young people going out, large gatherings. when arizona opened we went to phase three right away, so that was crowded nightclubs. situations where you're very likely to have a high level of transmission. we also had a huge problem with people who just assumed this would follow the patterns of the seasonal flu. we see rapid declines in the summer for flu, and people thought nothing is as tough as the arizona heat, but it turns out covid-19 is pretty tough. >> so what do you say to the federal government?

they watch the show all the time. what do you need? i know you reached out to fema. they're refusing to build a new test center but they will increase capacity in other ways. you say it's not enough. what do you need, and what happen physical you don't get it? >> we need medical professionals, we need testing kids, we need supplies immediately. our hospital is already in dire straits and they tell us in the next two weeks it is going to get to an unbearable level of crisis. this is the united states of america. we can do better. >> does your governor agree? >> we had a good conversation with the governor's head of testing yesterday. i've been encouraging the governor to request that surge testing. he has not yet done so, but i'm optimistic that he will see people suffering just as i have and partner with us. testing is a solvable problem five months in. we can do better. >> mayor, you have this platform as you need it going forward to make the case what's happening

in your community. we're a phone call away. >> thank you for helping us raise awareness. >> god bless and stay healthy. >> you, too. >> all right. big questions we're dealing with in this society. the pandemic, systemic racism, the declaration of independence states we hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal. but that's not the reality in america in too many different ways as we all know or should know. or should no. so let's turn to this virus, racism, and let's tackle these truths. with angela rye next.

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whether they want to or not, americans are facing a lot of hard truths about our country, aren't we? particularly over the nation's ugly ties to slavery. on one level you've got republicans saying, you know, the democrats they're the ones who started all this slavey stuff. we were always on the right side back in the day.

does that make it okay today that republicans are so quiet about trump ignoring blm, seeming to plead the case for confederate monuments? some say get rid of all the statues, all the founding fathers, get rid of all of them. you really think you're going to get a buy-in with the majority in this country and replace them with indigenous peoples and other few heroes we choose today? well, it is true most of the founding fathers, certainly too many, had connections to enslaving people. or is all this monument talk a distraction from real changes that we need to on the table? all good fodder for conversation for a new segment called "these truths" birthed by friend of the show angela rye. good to be with you. >> good to be with you, chris. >> so, the founding fathers, trump in his july fourth speech

accused protesters who tear down statues of wanting to wipe out history. context. >> well, i dare not ever try to explain context for a donald trump speech. what i can tell you for sure is that history has already been whited out. what we know is that erasure has existed for indigenous people, for black people and for all people of color, and i can tell you for certain in my history books -- thank god for my parents who taught me from the very beginning about the power of my blackness and the importance of -- and our mark in history dating before the transatlantic slave trade. and so we talk about whiting out history, what has already happened is that there has been significant erasure from the beginning of time. so when you talk about these monuments and who american history has chosen to lift up as

our heroes, what is the truth, chris, is that some of these people are history makers but they're no heroes of mine, right? and because they're history makers the question is do they belong in a book, do they belong in a museum or should they be celebrated, commemorated and memorialized in a statue, and i think there's a big difference there. >> i hear you. but this is also going to be a very formative principle of how you get a majority for change in this country. rushmore where he gave his speech. you know, you know who's on mount rushmore. the suggestion of hey they all have to come down, forget about washington and jefferson, teddy roosevelt, forget about lincoln they've all got to go. they're all wrong for one reason. even lincoln he did the emancipation proclamation but he didn't think blacks were equal socially. didn't want them around the house that way. they've all got to go. do you think you're going to get buy-in from america for any kind of formative change if you start there? >> that's the question. so often whether we're talking

about our cable news or the debates that exist in the halls of congress, we start at the argument without starting at the same foundational principle just around education. and so if we start from the same educational point which could very well be did you know did you know george washington was not only a slave owner but believed he was worthy of the very teeth that were in his slaves mouth. is that someone you want to commemorate on the dollar bill with a statue, with a holiday and on mount rushmore? >> yes, is what you'll get from 85% of americans. what he did was wrong but he was the father of the country and you have to see your history of where people were then. they were highly imperfect. this is an experiment. if you hold everybody to that kind of standard you'll have nobody. and then i don't think you'll have any buy-in on something that as we both know very well

the minority of this country cannot change what's wrong by itself. you need the majority to buy in. that's a big obstacle to getting white americans but non-white americans also to say we have to remake all our heroes in america. >> i do believe that should be the charge. i believe if right now we're in a society that has just for example talking about r. kelly. he has been cancelled given this new term that exists on social media because of his predatory relationship with under age women. rightfully so. you know who else had a predatory relationship with under age women? thomas jefferson. the question is should we be celebrating and commemorating people who were that treacherous to whole groups of humans and i would argue no. at 41 of the 56 signers of the declaration of independence can talk about these truths they hold as self-evident and then go to life, liberty and pursuit of

happiness. but there's a large footnote. i wasn't considered human to them. so much so that a dredd scott decision said so. we had to wait several years after the declaration for the emancipation proclamation to be signed. maybe it is people will say there's still my founding fathers. that alone the patriotic sentiment that exists in has to be reframed. why aren't there any black women heroes on mount rushmore? we can't even get harriet tubman on the $20 bill after it being agreed to in the obama administration. we're not talking about the indigenous people whose land was stolen from them right beneath their feet. sitting bull should be on the mount rushmore. frederick douglas who shaped the way --

>> the line is these are great presidents. >> i think -- yeah i hear you. what i would say is maybe they were great presidents to someone. who we really should be commemorating are the people behind the great presidents. the people who pushed them to their limits and had them reframe thinking. that's what i believe this is about. and the truth of the matter is this country is built on a lot that's not good. we're in this time allowing us to reset and think about what's right, what's true and what's forward. there's so much we were taught in history books that is not accurate. and i don't think we should hold up heroes or deem them heroes because it makes us feel better. >> i think where you wind up as long we don't let ourselves be consumed by this -- you're right we have to have the right

practice. i think if you do addition by substraction i think you're going to have problems. i think if you add to our collective history and who was positive and who wasn't, and change the education and make it more fulsome and transparent about people flaws and all that's a good sign. but we will continue this conversation because the idea of these truths is what we're playing with and the conversations we'll keep having on the show is what is true and what isn't. a lot of it is perspective. >> it is. and i would just tell you some aspects of what we're talking about in truth means it may hurt a little bit but it's still right. and if it's right how do you pursue the fullness of the righteousness of this situation? and the part of it is until we do some policy shifts, engaging in major policy change to go along with this symbolism also very meaningful we're going to

be right here talking about the substraction and addition. >> we can't stay where we are. things cannot stay the way they are. how do we move forward? that's a tough question. these conversations will help. i know there are people out there who aren't going to like what angela says. that's on her. i know you're not going to like what i say. i'm going to test this proposition because that's how we have the conversation. you should apply the same to what's said and zurndiscerned ie segment. god bless and take care. we've got to expose the ameri can'ts also. there are things we cannot do if we want to get to a better place. it's pretty inspiring the way families

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happening in this country, exposing what's wrong, trying to shine a light on what's right. in california this is just wrong. district attorney office has charged two residents with three misdemeanor counts including a hate crime. here's why. they got a permit to paint black lives matter there. they got a permit. they did it legally. these people came in and painted over it illegally. and why? because they said there is no such thing as racism. it ended with the emancipation proclamation. >> yeah, and they said not in our town. this will not happen in my town, they said. and, you know, i played this last night and the thing that got me, chris, is they were painting over black lives matter letters in black, which you will still be able to see because they were painting over the black letters so they were actually in a weird way helping with the art there, black lives matter, black