i'm wolf blitzer. stay with cnn for more breaking news on the coronavirus crisis. thanks very much for watching. "erin burnett outfront" starts right now. "outfront" next, trump's retreat, the president cancelling the convention in florida. tonight pushing schools across the country to reopen saying it's safe and they only get extra money if they open, plus record number of deaths in three states. the effect of coronavirus reaching critical mass. can states turn it around? and a new spike in unemployed americans who can be outhealth insurance in the middle of pandemic. let's go "outfront." and good evening. i'm erin burnett. "outfront" tonight, breaking news, a grim milestone and a president in retreat. the president tonight cancelling the august republican convention

in jacksonville florida as we learn more than 4 million americans have been infected with coronavirus. more than 144,000 americans have died in it. and the virus right now is spreading more and more quickly. just take a look at this time line. johns hopkins reported the first case of coronavirus in the united states on january 21st. it took another 99 days to reach 1 million cases on april 28th. another 43 days to hit 2 million cases. another 28 to hit 3 million. and now only 15 days to 4 million cases in the united states. and we have to say this point again to be very clear that this is not just due to more testing, as the president keeps saying. over the past six weeks there has been a 68% increase in testing. cases though have more than tripled. the increase there of 224%. so, the math, those are the facts. one of the biggest hotspots in this country tonight is florida where president trump was set to hold that big portion of his convention at the end of august. >> i looked at my team and i

said, the timing for this event is not right, just not right with what's happened recently, the flare up in florida. to have a big convention is not the right time. it's really something that for me -- i have to protect the american people. that's what i've always done. that's what i always will do. that's what i'm about. >> look, this is a shocking about-face, right? from the president who just weeks ago called the governor of north carolina backward and behind, his words, for saying, guess what, we can't have a convention here. it's not safe. here's what the president said. >> when we signed in jacksonville -- again, we wanted to be in north carolina. that almost worked out. but the governor didn't want to have people use the arena essentially. and sort of too bad for north carolina.

and then we went to florida. >> too bad for north carolina, he'll just move it to florida. again calling the governor of north carolina backward and behind for trying to protect lives. now, the president having to back down and retreat on his florida convention. while trump is in retreat on that jacksonville event, forced to cancel, he is still overall painting a picture that isn't accurate. >> a lot has no problems what so ever, most of the country, actually. >> that's not true. right now we've got 23 states seeing increase in cases. there are only five where cases are actually declining. and the president is not stopping his push to reopen schools, again saying that he will not give funding to any schools that do not open. >> every district should be actively making preparations to open. again, the children obviously have a very strong immune

system, maybe even as strong as yours. they seem to be able to fight it off. >> the truth is, children have not been getting as sick from this virus as adults and they have not been dying, but their teachers can get very sick. so can their parents. so can anyone older in their lives because according to a new report from the cdc tonight, 41% of adults in this country have at least one underlying medical condition that could put them at higher risk for severe outcomes for this virus. half of the counties in this country, nearly one in two adults have an underlying condition. so, it's not just for parents and teachers we need to worry about that could come into contact with those children. according to the kaiser family foundation, 3.3 million adults ages 65 and older, obviously the most vulnerable group of americans where your chance of death surges, live in a household with school age children. one of them of course is the president of the united states himself. and many school districts, going through all of that have come to the conclusion they can't safely

open now. so, currently only five states have ordered states to open for in-person instruction in full. every other state is planning for a hybrid situation or letting counties decide. los angeles is having no in-person classes this fall at all. kaitlan collins is live "outfront" the white house tonight. after saying the governor of north carolina is backward and all these negative things, and too bad for you north carolina, i'm going to florida. why did he do it so suddenly? >> this is within an 8-week period that the president went from moving the convention to north carolina because he was complaining the health precautions were too strict. now he's cancelling the one he moved to florida because he's saying the health risks there are too high. all within eight weeks, it goes to show what officials have been believing all along. we have been hearing from campaign officials they were getting too concerned about what

this was going to look like as you were seeing republican lawmaker after republican lawmaker saying they didn't feel comfortable going to that decision. and the president made a decision on the day a quinnipiac poll came out saying 76% of floridians did not think it was a good idea. the president is making this decision after he met with campaign aides. they were talking about this. they said they could still move forward with it if the president wanted to, erin, but he said cancelling is still an option and you can use it to show some sort of leadership, some kind of things like that. that's how they framed it because of course it comes about a week after democrats said they're down sizing theirs from a few thousand people to just a few hundred. but of course you could not help but notice in the briefing today that the president went from talking about how it was too risky to hold this convention but then continued on with his push for schools to reopen. he said yesterday he wanted them

to 100% reopen. of course they are different venues. they have very different risks. but it is going to raise questions with the white house going forward why the president doesn't think he should show a political convention where he thinks people should be at risk but he does think people should go to schools. >> kaitlan, thank you very much. i want to go now to dr. sanjay gupta and dr. jonathan reiner, director of the cardiac cath lab at george washington university and advised the medical team under george w. bush at the white house and of course gloria borger. the president retreats, calls governor cooper of north carolina backward and behind and too bad for you. now cancelling that convention in jacksonville. but still pushing to reopen schools and saying i've got $100 billion but i'm only going to give it to you if you reopen. these are two completely seemly diametrically opposed messages. are they? >> yeah, they are, and they're also at odds with what the

coronavirus task force has been saying. you know, when they talk about schools, i mean they've been very clear on this issue, the same guidance that they've been talking about with regard to florida. if you have a lot of viral spread in your community and the numbers are going up, going up in the community at least five days in a row. that is not the time to open schools. we do know as you mentioned, erin, we do know kids are less likely to get sick. but we say once you get to 10 years old, you're just as likely to spread as an adult. it may be true for kids younger. we just don't know that yet. so, it doesn't make sense right now. and again that's why we need the scientists talking about this directly to the american people. >> so, dr. reiner, i want to play more about what the president said about why he chose to cancel the convention in florida. >> to me, every time you test, you find a case, and you know, it gets reported in the news we found more cases. if instead of 50, we did 25, we

would have half the number of cases. i think it's overrated, but i'm totally willing to keep doing it. >> dr. reiner, he said he thought it was wrong people going to a hot spot. he continued and said we know when we chose it, it was not at all hot. it was free. all of a sudden it happened very quickly. that's not the case though, is it? >> no. the cases in florida have been rising for weeks. and the president has had a history in the last month of taking his show on the road to pandemic hotspots. at the end of last month, he held a large rally in tulsa as tulsa was recording its largest daily coronavirus cases. and the following week, he went to phoenix, arizona, when they were doing the same. so, the president has shown a disregard for the safety of the residents of those cities by holding these events as well as

his advanced team and security people by holding them in those venues. and at that time, he rescheduled his convention in jacksonville at a time where florida was becoming the world's epicenter. but the truth is there was no real chance that the convention could be held in florida. it could not happen. so, his people almost certainly told him that. and it was just time to cut it. >> and yet, gloria, he's making the announcement after weeks of saying it was going to happen and saying all those pejorative things about governor cooper of north carolina. yet, when he did it today, kaitlan mentioned the poll, quinnipiac poll, gop voters, 62% in florida said they didn't think it should happen. the polls were speaking loudly and clearly. but no one knew it was happening. florida leaders did not seem to know he was about to do this. >> what a shock. look, this is a president -- honestly, if you look at everything that's occurred over the last couple of days who's becoming less and less relevant, i would say almost irrelevant at this point. he's trying to look like a

leader, but he doesn't lead. he's following. you want to talk about the convention. he the fiasco in tulsa. he couldn't afford to have another tulsa. more and more member of congress are saying, wait, a minute, i'm not going to go. you had the sheriff of jacksonville saying, sorry, i don't think this is really safe. so, the president had no choice but to back off. but he wanted to make it seem like he was being a leader. he's also had a reversal on schools. he softened his stance on schools. we're not quite sure what it is at this point. but instead of saying absolutely no money will go to those school systems that refuse to open right now, he said maybe we'll send the money directly to the parents. and he's been rejected by republicans in congress on his move for a payroll tax cut because they don't think it would do any good. so, he's standing up there at the podium every day trying to appear in charge when, in fact, events are just moving him like

white water. you know? and he can't seem to get his feet on the ground here because events are moving him. he is not leading. he just isn't. >> and sanjay, this is also happening as school districts which are -- i guess he would view it as defying him. that's not why they're doing it. school districts in completely red republican areas as well as democratic areas were not doing exactly what he wants, right? and they had said -- the trump administration said we're going to give more guidance. they've had guidance on schools, right? but they were going to give supplemental guidance after the president criticized the cdc guidance on opening the schools, said it was very tough. mike pence said it was too tough. now we have the cdc coming out with updates saying the best available evidence indicates that covid-19 poses relatively low risks to school aged children. obviously that is true, right, statistically. the concern is what it would do to others. when you think about this yourself, sanjay, as a doctor

with school-aged children, what's your feelings about sending them back to school? topic number one in our household and among friends. right now we won't. and that's because of our community. where we live, wie live in georgia in atlanta and the numbers have been going up. the issue, exactly as you framed it, erin. i think there is good evidence to suggest my kids are less likely to get sick from this. i still worry about it. i think every parent does. it can be very, very severe in certain cases and we've known kids who have gotten very sick. but the idea they can still spread the virus, they would still be contributing to the fact that the numbers have been going up steadily in our area is a real concern. i mean, you know, it's not an easy decision to make, but i think the data is very clear on this. so, we won't do it right now. people have asked me this in our community, and i tell the same thing to them. >> the president, you heard him

say, kids immune systems are stronger so they don't get sick from this. it's more of a difference, i believe, that their immune systems respond differently, adult immune systems tend to overrespond or overreact in a sense. is this relevant, though, when it comes to opening schools? or how relevant is it? as a parent, when you hear this conversation, that is what you hear. kids aren't going to get sick if we can just put plexiglass between the teachers and protect the teachers, the best thing to do is to send kids back. where do you fall on this? >> well, the kids might not get sick, but they very well might get infected and those children live in a home with parents who are vulnerable to get sick and ill and die and they may very well, as you said at the outset, be living with grandparents. so, many of their parents will have co-morbidities such as hypertension or diabetes or kidney disease that will significantly increase their risk. so, what the president doesn't

tell you is that it's actually not about the children. it's certainly not only about the children. it's about the community in which the children live. and that's where the risk is, spreading the virus to people who are really susceptible of a succumbing to this illness. >> will the president ever change his view on schools like he did in the convention? the convention was whiplash from backward and behind until we're done. >> i think we begin to see the cement cracking today because originally he was going to punish school districts that didn't open and ask every child to come back to school. and what we heard today this press conference is a softening of his position, and that is because member of congress are hearing from their constituents who are saying i'm afraid of sending my child back to school. i don't want my child to be a carrier of covid. and so i think the president originally thought this was going to be kind of a slam dunk

issue for him, and he has discovered, in fact, that parents are reacting differently from the way he thought at the outset. and so he had to soften his position. and republicans, i think, were the ones who said to him, you know, you just can't do this. >> all right. well, thank you all very much. and everyone, you should know sanjay will be back with cnn's global coronavirus town hall at 8:00 eastern. you don't want to miss that. bill gates on tonight with anderson and sanjay. california heading in the wrong direction. what's driving the cases and deaths to record highs? the president paints a rosie but severe picture of what the virus is doing in hospitals. and another million people have just filed for unemployment, but it is not just their paycheck that is going away. many of them are losing their health insurance too. >> i think nobody really knows what's going on and it's kind of like almost like a downward spiral. usaa is made for what's next

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breaking news, president trump saying his administration has everything states need to fight coronavirus. that comes amid a grim milestone. california, tennessee and florida hitting single day highs for deaths from coronavirus. nick watt is "outfront." >> reporter: 173 people reported dead today in florida, an all-time high for that state. >> one person is getting exposed or sick, and they're infecting every single member of their

household. >> reporter: today we passed 4 million confirmed covid-19 cases across this country. >> there's no end in sight in the sense there's no plan to control the virus at a national level. it's not going to go away by itself. >> reporter: we're now six months in and the president still thinks testing is overrated. >> if instead of 50, we did 25, we would have half the number of cases. i personally think it's overrated but i'm totally willing to keep do it. >> does he realize a case is a case whether it's framed by a case or not and a known case can be contained. that's largely why we test. >> finding and tracing those very early individuals is really critical. >> reporter: so says dr. deborah birx who's worried about these states, las vegas, st. louis, baltimore. >> that went from 5 to 5 1/2 and

going to wait and see what happens, wait another three or four or five days they'll start to see dramatic increase in cases. >> reporter: in all of oregon, bars and restaurants close at 10:00 p.m. anchorage, alaska, re-introducing the restrictions on the size of gatherings. if the united states had collectively waited longer, opened more slowly, and then kept oured case counts like europe or canada and experienced a relatively normal summer. instead, baseball's opening day is today, late july, with no fans and no spitting. last year, opening day was late march. dr. anthony fauci threw out the first pitch at the nationals. who'd have ever thought the mild mannered 79-year-old immunologist would be on that mound. sign of our times.

>> you know, a new death record is not the only troubling signs as you go through some of these states. but for california specifically, it's not the only problem tonight. >> reporter: no, erin. listen, for the last couple of days we have also seen more than 12,000 infections. so, right now, californians are dying and being infected at record rates. and the epicenter here is los angeles where clearly they are having some problems with reopened businesses not following the rules. 17,000 complaints apparently since march. so, next month, they are going to start fining businesses. and for repeat offenders, erin, they'll close them down for 30 days. >> nick, thank you very much. next, the concerning rise of cases in several states as nick talks about texas and arizona on that list. we're going to speak to doctors in those states on the frontlines with patients overwhelming their hospitals as we speak. and another million people out of work in the united states, little or no money more housing,

food and something right now so crucial. >> i feel like sadly, health insurance will probably be on the last priority. it's pretty inspiring the way families

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breaking news, president trump down playing concerns of cities and states across the country where coronavirus cases are surging. >> we're continuing to surge testing to current hotspots such as miami and phoenix to detect those with the virus and take steps to stop from spreading it further. the country is in very good shape other than if you look south and west, some problems. it'll all work out. >> it'll all work out. but the problem is one of his own top health experts today admitted the administration is concerned about the outbreaks in states including arizona and texas. and "outfront" now, we have two doctors who are on the frontlines in those states, a pulmonologist at mccown medical center in texas, and an er doctor in phoenix, arizona.

i appreciate both of you very much. dr. doctor, last time we spoke, you said virtually everyone was testing positive. what is it like now in the er? >> things a thanks for having m back. the positive rates are ridiculous. today the state's positivity rate was 24%, and his response was that's not bad. so, you can imagine how bad it is if 24% seems good. last weekend was 30%, way above the threshold. when the patients are sick or come to the er, almost every time i test a patient, it is still positive. over the course of the last month i've been talking about this, i've had two negative tests which is far too few. that means a lot of patients in our community don't have covid and a lot of them don't even know they have it. >> earlier this week, i know you said it's a tsunami, what we're

seeing right now. that was the word that you used. what are you seeing tonight? what is the case tonight? >> yes, it's exactly like that. it feels like it's a tsunami, so overwhelming. we're seeing more and more cases in the emergency department. we're seeing more and more cases in the intensive care units. and the city is also a problem. these patients are coming in really, really sick. and sadly, the mortality rate is also increasing. >> the mortality rate is increasing. so, when you hear -- i guess let me play something else specifically because you talked about the positivity rate. president trump said today about your state. here he is. >> arizona is doing very well. it's heading down. numbers are heading down, i think very quickly. the governor's done a great job. >> so, based on what you told me, you know, that your positivity rate that you're seeing, what would you say about arizona doing very well? i mean, is there a significant

improvement in any way? >> well, i'm not sure which numbers he's talking about. our high temperature today was only 97 degrees and that's the best temperature we've had in many weeks, first time we didn't hit triple digits in a while. but in terms of covid numbers, our positivity rate is super high. last time i was on we were number one in the country for the percent of tests come back positive. today i'm on your show again and we're number one in the country for the percentage of tests that come back positive. i had a patient just a couple days ago waiting hours and hours in the er because it's very hard to get a bed. i'm sure other doctors will tell you the same. and hours and hours in, she was quite sick. she decided she wanted to go home. we said, listen, you're pretty sick, you should stay. she said, listen, i think i'm going to die. i want to die at home, not in the hospital. i don't know what seems like a glimmer of hope from that statement if people are losing

hope if they're waiting hours if the er. i'm not sure where you can say phoenix is getting better. there are some numbers that maybe give us very cautious optimism, but the most important ones still look bad. it is widespread. >> because you're seeing more people, they're coming in extremely sick, that you're seeing mortality go up. there have been some talk that mortality may be improving nm soft icus, maybe just because people have now -- doctors like yourself have more kind of a standard of care that you didn't have a few months ago. is any of that true? or just when you're getting overwhelming, you're seeing these numbers inevitably go up? >> well, the number of hospitalizations are increasing is because you have patients that are really getting sick enough to get in the hospital. a segment of those are critically ill. and sadly even though we try with all the current literature on all the protocols we have, we still have a high mortality

rate. in our neck of the woods, we're seeing numbers of daily deaths above ten a day when two months ago we only have 12 deaths in that period of time. now daily we're getting closer to 40. >> it's tragic. when we look at these numbers, 4 million confirmed cases today -- those are only cases we know about. but we know the deaths are close to 150,000 now. the president's former fda commissioner is offering just this mathematical, talking about this prediction for 2020. here he is. >> we could have upwards of 300,000 if we continue on the current trajectory. right now we have close to 1,000 casualties a day. if we don't change that trajectory, you could do the math and see where we are towards the end of the year. >> that gets you to 300,000 plus. i'm not asking you to forecast exactly, but given what you see where you are, what you see across the country, do you believe that that is a real possibility at this time?

>> yeah, you know, a couple of months ago my residents were telling me the numbers. they were better at it than i was at that time. they were saying the projections are about 100 something thousand but it could be 200,000 to 300,000 depending how things go. now it's looking at at least 300,000. the ironic thing is we could have prevented it. we knew the metrics we needed to take. it was distancing, staying home, wearing masks if you needed to be around people. we're just shooting for that metric and almost like we're trying to surpass it. it makes no sense to me that we have a solution and we're not dog it. it's as if we're watching the death counts go up and just don't care. it's really appalling. >> when you are not at work, when you're out and about in your community, what is the one thing that you see people doing that when you think about people dieing in your hospital that you would want them to know, that you would want them to change right now about how they're still behaving. >> absolutely.

that's the most disturbing part. you are in the hospital the whole day and you drive home and turn to the side of the highway and see the restaurants being full of people. it's lack of empathy. my colleague is saying simple measures while the masks, the social distancing, it's not up for debate. we know it. it's very frustrating. these huge numbers we're mentioning 150,000 to 300,000, it comes out easy of the mouth to talk about these numbers, but these are real people with history. that's what's behind it. >> thank you both. next more than 1 million workers in this country now just filing for unemployment. these are the new claims. their job-based health insurance is going away too for many of them. and a federal judge orders michael cohen's time in prison, calling it retaliation. you start with the network j.d. power has named the most awarded for network quality 25 times in a row.

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tonight another 1.4 million americans filing for first time unemployment benefits. since mid-march, that stunning

number 52.6 million people filing unemployment benefits. now many of them are also facing the loss of their health insurance. phil mattingly is "outfront." >> very optimistic and smile, it'll all be okay. >> reporter: despite a furlough, ashley managed to stay positive in the first few months of the pandemic. >> unemployment and everything, that's what made it a little bit easier to be like, okay, i can stay at home and be okay. >> reporter: but the pittsburgh restaurant group where she worked just days ago decided it had to make cuts. >> there's so much uncertainty and i think nobody knows what's going on. it's a downward spiral. >> reporter: now ashley has joined nearly 18 million americans as unemployed and those job losses have laid bare a significant hold for individuals. >> larly a time like this when people are losing their jobs at unprecedented level, they're losing their health insurance coverage at a time we're facing

a health crisis in the country and many people have a need more than ever for health insurance coverage. >> reporter: about half the u.s. population received health insurance through their employer in 2018. now as many as 26.8 million people could become uninsured due to those job losses according to the kaiser family foundation. and while the group estimates likely 20 million would likely qualify for obamacare subsidies or medicaid, that leaves over 5 million people paying their own way all as federal benefit is about to expire. >> that was my saving grace. >> reporter: as ashley confronts the need to get insurance on her own, she faces reality. >> it was between the food and the house and car payment,

health insurance is last priority. >> reporter: it's a decision millions may be forced to make with jarring repercussions. >> i just don't know if i could afford that now. and that's really saying something too because i felt like i was finally blessed to be in a position where i felt comfortable. >> paf >> reporter: ashley had a job, health insurance. she closed on her new home days before the restaurant shut down. the uncertainty has taken it's toll. >> i don't want to lose everything i've worked hard to get and realize how hard it would be to get it back again. >> reporter: and erin, it's the domino effect, whether it's for individuals losing jobs and losing health insurance, all businesses as well as across the board economically over the course of the last four months that you've seen play out in spades. that's why lawmakers have an urgent need to pass the package. it could be a trillion, maybe $2 trillion, but they're right now at the negotiations before

you even get into the starting game. republicans haven't even agreed on their own proposal. that proposal was expected to come out today. now it's expected to come out monday. the crucial deadline, july 31st, that's coming next week. right now it looks like it's almost certainly going to lapse. >> thank you very much, phil. and next, a federal judge's blistering message for the justice department as he orders michael cohen released from prison. and the president can't stop defending his mental fitness. the doctor that created that cognitive test that trump took and keeps talking about, he's "outfront" to tell you about it. we are the thrivers. women with metastatic breast cancer. our time for more time... has come. living longer is possible - and proven in postmenopausal women taking kisqali plus fulvestrant.

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new tonight a federal judge slamming the justice department and ruling cohen sent released. "outfront" now jeffrey toobin, chief legal analyst and former federal prosecutor. pretty amazing that you get this judge saying this was a

retaliation for writing a tell all book. can this order from the judge be seen as anything but a stunning rebuke to the president and his attorney general bill barr? >> a total rebuke. the judge said i've been a judge for 21 years. i've released a lot of people from prison. i have never seen an order like this. and, you know, first of all, writing books is protected by the first amendment. and second, why this prisoner out of all prisoners is subject to this? the only conclusion he could draw, and i think it's a correct conclusion, is that this was an attempt to silence someone who is now a critic of the president. >> so, cohen's book, look, this is the latest in a string of books the president has recently tried to fail to block from publication. there was his niece, mary trump, there was john bolton's book. was what happened today a surprise to you at all or did you think this was going to end this way?

>> i think, you know, it usually is the case that the bureau of prisons has a lot of control over people who are released from prison prematurely. they can insist on house arrest. they can insist on, you know, no communication with certain people. but this was such an outrageous and obvious restriction on his constitutional rights for no good reason. i mean, there is no public safety involved. this was solely based on the idea that the president shouldn't be criticized. so, for that reason, it did seem like a pretty obvious call for the judge, and it turned out that it was. >> they tried to say because he was captured by the "new york post" having dinner with friends that this was all a violation. that was the original cover for why they had to send back, but it didn't add up. >> but there was no restriction on his ability to have dinner with friends. that was -- there was no basis for that. and, you know, a lot of people

dislike michael cohen on the left, on the right. but the point is the law has to apply to everyone equally. and if you're going to release someone from prison, you have to allow them to have the same rights as everyone else and everyone else has >> so what we'll be seeing that cohen book? >> we will be seeing that cone book and people can buy it if they want. >> thank you very much, jeffrey toobin. >> all righty, erin. next, trump touting his performance on a cognitive test, that he keeps positioning as an iq test. so who gets this test? what you'll find out about the people who will get this test is important. because the map behind the test is my guest, next. ♪ but bristol myers squibb is working to change things.

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defending his mental fitness on national television. >> i took it at walter reed medical center in front of doctors, and they were very surprised. they said that's an unbelievable thing. rarely does anybody do what you just did. you couldn't answer many of the questions and i answered all 35 questions correctly. if you repeat them out of order, it's okay, but, you know, it's not as good. but when you go back about 25 minutes later, go back to that question. and repeat them, can you do them? and you do, person, woman, man, camera, tv. they say that's amazing. how did you do that? i do it because i have like a good memory, because i'm cognitively there. >> trump touting the results as another reason why he should be re-elected.

up now, a neurologist that created the test the president took. i appreciate your time. the white house has not released these details, but the president said he aced your test and keeps talking about it like it's an iq exam. help us understand what is on the test. >> yes, this test is meant to assess cognitive functions, meaning that we are assessing which cognitive domains would be effective. so we look at memory, concentration, attention, executive functions, perception. so all these skills are assessed to determine somebody's cognition is okay. >> so just to kind of understand would a healthy person who does not have any suspected cognitive or memory or concentration issues need to take this test? >> the test is toment to assess

when a family is concerned about a person's performance. so we do this screening to assess their cognition. so it's not meant to be done for somebody who is not concerned about it. >> so this is important for everyone to understand. people have been sharing some portions of the test. the president talked about it. a question ask if they've be been -- or can recognize the drawing of a lion. how would you describe it? >> the test has been developed and it has to be hard enough to pick up subtle deficits that are signs of alzheimer's. so it could be somewhat hard for somebody who is normal, especially certain questions are harder than others.

especially the five-word recall. most patients do not get the five words. most normal people don't get it after five or ten minutes. most of them get 3.7 words. so it's not that easy to go through the whole testing. >> why take it multiple times? would that be to see if you're seeing a decline in memory? this is a gauge for alzheimer's? >> we usually take it once a year, every two years if you have a concern. if there's any decline with time, after a certain age, there could be some decline because it's more common after 70 to have cognitive disorders, so it's not uncommon to have the test repeated every two years if the person or the family is concerned. >> when asked about the ease of some of the questions, the

president talked about the difficulty of some portions of the test. here's how he described it. >> yes, the first few questions are easy. but i'll bet you couldn't even answer the last five questions. they get very hard. >> is that fair, the last five questions are hard and a fully normal person would have trouble with them? >> actually, i think he's referring to the five-word question, because it is challenging. some people get only two out of five, three out of five. it's not everyone can get five out of five or 30 out of 30 like i mentioned before. only 10% of normal individuals get 30 out of 30. >> wow. doctor, i appreciate your time. thank you, sir. >> you're welcome. thank you, erin. >> thanks to all of you for joining us.

cnn's global town hall with dr. sanjay gupta and anderson starts now. >> welcome. i'm anderson cooper in new york. >> and i'm dr. sanjay gupta. this is our 18th cnn go elobal n hall. it's being seen international. >> we start off tonight in a very bad place. the experts warned it could come to this and sadly, it has. cases today crosses the 4 million mark in this country. not long ago it was 15 people. and the president was saying it would soon be zero. instead tonight, it is 4 million plus. >> and the pace of growth is also accelerating. it took 99 days to reach to a million cases, 43 days to go from 1