many places, too many kids. he is right, it is what it is. a pandemic that is eating us alive. not a hoax, not disappearing. a pandemic that we are handling worse than too many other places, because it is what it is and more importantly, he is who he is. >> we are continuing to monitor and monitor in particular hotspots across the south-southwest and the west. and we're seeing indications that our strong mitigation efforts are working, very well, actually. the recent rise in cases has not been accompanied by a significant increase in deaths. >> he is tied to the script. because he has no independent grasp, other than what people are telling him.

now, the shame goes to the people who are writing these messages for him to read to you that they know are deceptive. they are not doing everything they can do to fight this pandemic. i thought the carnage was supposed to stop with this administration. more crime according to him now. tougher economy. according to him now. and a pandemic that was not of trump's making, but is certainly out of control because of trump's inaction. the daily average of deaths has roughly doubled. 500 plus additional deaths a day. and the president says that's insignificant? he won't say when all americans will have access to the rapid covid test because he doesn't

know, and it's not his focus. we are looking at that very strongly. how do you look at something strongly? they're doing nothing. why does the u.k. have 90 minute test turnaround and capability and we don't. we are the richest country in the world with the greatest resources. that was his pitch. maga was about manufacturing at its best. i would argue it was a dog whistle to a culture war. he wants to fight about race and religion. it is every chance he gets a chance to make it that. at its best. it was about big back manufacturing. isn't this the perfect time to kick start companies? what's worse than that inaction, his insane pushing of states to

send our kids to schools that he knows are not safe. his kid's not going back to school like that, i guarantee you. that is what it is too. it is unsafe to send kids to places that can't space, can't trace cases they get, and can't even test in time. did you hear that a second grader just tested positive after attending classes on the first day of school. he and his classmates and teacher are quarantining for 14 days? how many of us are going to have to decide to keep our kids out of school? and then what. who's going to help for the cost of so many of you not being able to work. what's it going to do to our kids? how is it not going to result in imbalances in places where people have money where they put together these pods. families getting together, grouping -- who's excluded.

who has the money to pay for extra teachers because the schools can't do the work. in america? this is the time for government to work for us. this is why we have a federal government we must keep pressing for it to do what it can. that means we can only spend so much time complaining about the status quo. we only know what we show. what can we do. let's turn to a valuable mind, okay? former white house obama coordinator ron klain. not just theory, practice, they had to do this. let's start off with the president's great defense to what is being done. he says, we test more than

anyone else in the world. india has a billion and a half, they don't test as much as we have. is that the correct answer? and proof of purpose of this administration? well, it may be proof of a lack of purpose of the administration, the fact that we're six months into this and don't have a plan at all. the u.s. is about middle of the pack. we're pretty low in terms of per capita testing among well developed and wealthy nations the fact that the president wants to compare america's health care system to india. i don't think that's what most americans want to live with. we have people in this country attracting covid at record rates, dying at record rates. we're losing americans here right now at about the same pace we were losing americans in world war ii, we didn't hear fdr tell people it is what it is. >> listen to the president talking about why the numbers work in favor of the argument

that he's doing a good job. take a look at some of these charts, i'd love to. if you look at death per -- >> it's starting to go up again. >> well, right here, united states is lowest in numerous categories, we're lower than the world. >> lower than the world. >> we're lower than europe. >> in what? in what? >> take a look. right here. here's case death. >> you're doing death as a portion of cases. i'm doing death as a proportion of population. that's where the u.s. is really bad. >> you can't do that. >> why can't i do that? >> you have to go by where -- look, here is the united states. you have to go by the cases. >> all right, let's help people understand this. here's my simple explanation. you get into it from a policy

perspective. the interviewer is saying, as a percent of population, we have too many people dying. the president says, yeah, but not by percentage of cases. now, why is one answer better than the other? the simple explanation is, we have a great health care system. the fact that we're able to save people that may not be saved in other parts of the world because our clinicians our first responders are so good, does not excuse the fact that we have so many deaths as a function of our population. is that a fair assessment? >> it is. and there are more factors to it. the case mortality rate is higher in other countries. the bottom line is, how likely am i to die from covid. that's the bottom line. if i'm walking around today in america, what's my chance of dying from covid.

and that statistic, the one that jonathan sveum was pushing, america has one of the worst numbers on planet earth. you are more likely as an american to die from covid than you are in almost any other country. >> new cases of covid today in paris, texas, than in paris france. newer cases of covid in the smallest state in the country than in the entire country of spain. >> it's not about cherry picking numbers that make us look good. it's just as many that make us look bad. this is about process and strategy of attack. we are testing in a way that is so ineffective. we're exposing the most vulnerable. and too many people getting caught by surprise. this president refuses to acknowledge that here's the proof.

>> here's one right here, the united states. we're last, meaning we're first. >> as of what? >> take a look again, it's cases. >> okay. and. >> we have cases because of the testing. >> you take a look at this other chart. look, this is our testing i believe, this is the testing, yeah. >> yeah, we do more tests. >> don't we get credit for that? >> and because we do more tests we have more cases. >> this matters, i can't tell you how many people say, will you stop say testing is the problem? we test more than anywhere else in the world, chris, he can't do better than best. what's the reality? >> the reality is, 80% of the tests are taking a week or longer to get results. that adds up to the testing total, it's pretty useless. if you've been walking around with covid for a week, you've infected a lot of other people

the fact that we're so slow makes the tests for all intents and purposes pretty useless. that's the first point. we still aren't testing anywhere near enough. because we're a country that's trying to get people back to work. the president talks about getting everyone back to school. kids are going back to school, we're not going to know if they have the disease or not. we are not going to know if they're exposed or not. we're not going to know if they're bringing it home. even when we test people, we don't have contact tracers to identify who that person is in contact with, so it can isolate cases and keep the disease from spreading. we're 8, 9 months into this in total. the president doesn't have a plan, he has charts and statistics and numbers. where is the plan to get this under control? >> he is insisting that we test too much. and again, i am all about testing, because i think it's all we have.

all we have is the ability to figure out who we need to remove from society so they can heal and not make anyone else sick. it's all we have until we come up with a vaccine. he has been pushing this to great political effect that the problem is actually how much we test. here it is. >> there are those that say, you can test too much. you do know that? >> who says that? >> oh, just -- read the manuals, wreeds the books. >> read the manuals? what manuals? >> read the books. >> he went into b.s. mode to justify it. ron, we only have a lot of cases, because we're so good at measuring how many people are sick in this country. these other countries stink compared to us, that's the only we have more cases. they have a ton more cases than we do, they're just not counting them as well as we are.

>> they had zero cases in spain yesterday. zero cases in france. zero. we had 70,000. even if we're picking up more because we're testing, 70,000 to zero is not because of testing. that's the first thing. forget the case counts. forget all these things. let's go to people who are dying, we're losing almost 1,000 americans a day, every single day. no matter how you count the tests and the cases and the rights. that's a death toll that is world war ii level death toll in the united states. for the president to say it is what it is, is not presidential leadership. >> it would be if he said, the pandemic is what it is, that's why we're going to do x. the second part, it's fine that you recognize it, yeah, that's what it is. that's what this thing does. great. let's be in awe of it, let's attack if. he doesn't do the second part. >> this other point i want to

make. this is one of his strong arguments why he's being unfairly treated here. >> i think we've done an incredible job, between the ventilators and stopping very infected people from china am coulding in, meaning, putting the ban on china. which frankly nobody wanted me to do, practically nobody, because it was early in january. then putting the ban on europe, not an easy thing to do. we would have probably lost hundreds of thousands of lives more had i not done that. banning china from coming in -- >> it was already in here. >> i'm sorry. >> it was already here. by the time you banned china -- >> nobody knew the extent. >> what is your read on it? he banned from china, a lot of people on the political left were against it, he did it, did he make the right move? did he make the right move with europe or is the issue timing? >> i think it's a bunch of things. 44 countries banned travel from

china before we did. 40,000 people came here from china after he put the ban in place. he said it was in january, early in january that interview. it actually took effect in february. that's just another lie, another mistake. most of the cases we had on the east coast came from europe, not from china. and he didn't act on that until the middle of march, when the disease was already here in large numbers. all these travel restrictions were smart things to go, they should have been done on time, more completely. when he imposed the travel restriction on china, i said it wasn't a travel ban it was a travel band aid. the real question isn't about the travel restrictions, what did he do with the time the travel restrictions bought? did he get testing running? did he get tracing running? did he get equipment to our health care workers? we probably lost 1,000 health

care workers in america due to covid because they weren't protected. did he do this? that's the shame here. he squandered with inaction. >> here's his defense. >> nobody knew what this thing was all about. this has never happened before. 1917 but it was totally different -- it was a flu in that case. other than 1917 there's never been anything like this. >> you guys all missed it, fauci, birx, all the big brains said it's not going to be a problem here, when it came here, they said, no, we're going to be okay. he's no different than anyone else. >> that's a lie also. the senior infectious respiratory disease expert at the centers for disease control told reporters that the pan dem irk was coming, it was inover itable, she warned her own family to prepare for a major disruption of u.s. life.

the day after she did that, the president preventsed her from speaking to the press again. people in his own administration told him it was here, told him it was about to explode, and he did everything he could to suppress the truth, the facts, and to tell people it was going to go away. right? it waernts just that they didn't see it coming, he was telling us, oh, it's 15 cases going down to 5. it's going to go away, like a miracle. it's going to go way come easter. time and again he was wrong, what's more, after it came and it raged, he stood there in may and june and said, everyone should reopen everything right away. after we learned the painful lessons of new york and new jersey. and we didn't share those lessons with florida and texas. instead, he egged them on to open as quickly and recklessly

as possible. >> and now he's doing it with schools. i tell you what, schools are different. i'm a parent, i have three kids in different states of school, and i'm telling you, families are not going to send their kids to schools if they're afraid of them getting sick and bringing it home. this is going to be a problem, it's different than business. it's going to be a time for act or you're going to see a lot of rogue actors doing it their own way. i look forward to using you much on this show to help you understand where we are and where you need to be. >> what happens when government doesn't do what you need it to do. you start doing things on your own. for better and worse. my next guests are defying orders to keep their businesses shut down because of covid. they've already been arrested for reopening their gym in new jersey and they're not giving up their fight even under the

threat of their losing -- that's them breaking into their own place. they're not breaking into someone els. they will make the case for why they are in the right next. re ao help you focus on your health. because it's always time for care. that selling carsarvana, 100% online wouldn't work. but we went to work. building an experience that lets you shop over 17,000 cars from home. creating a coast to coast network to deliver your car as soon as tomorrow. recruiting an army of customer advocates to make your experience incredible. and putting you in control of the whole thing with powerful technology. that's why we've become the nation's fastest growing retailer. because our customers love it. see for yourself, at carvana.com. yea, that look of pure terror... ...no, no, the smile... ...and that second right before the first tear comes... ...what?! pizza on a bagel-we can all agree with that.

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two new jersey gym owners were arrested and charged with defying the states covid restrictions last week. but that didn't stop them from doing this. >> just to be clear, they're not breaking into somebody else's place. this is their place. they're kicking in the plywood barricade at the front door of their gym because they want customers to get in. they say at the gym, they have done what they were supposed to do to make it safe the way other businesses that they are similar to in their own estimation did. and that yet they are not

allowed to open, all right? this is a court battle, they could go to jail. now you have the state ag's office there in jersey recommending a fine of up to 10 grand a day. this has become more about business. i want these men to make the case, they're representative of what's happening across this country. ian and frank ared owners of atyllis gym, and they're here now. how are you, fellas? >> good, chris, how are you? the best case they have on you is this is about health. it's not about not liking exercise or not liking you. it's about keeping safe and you should respect that and you're not. your response, one at a time. >> i would say that actually when this first started they asked for two weeks. when we first opened up, we gave them two months. at two months they had no plan, plain and simple, they had no

plan, we did. we actually wanted to prove that we could open up safe. they say liquor stores are essential, home depot and lowe's is essential, i disagree with that. we're all essential. everybody's essential. and bottom line is, this isn't about opening up a gym. they have violated everyone's constitutional rights. we all have the right to make a living. we all have a right to actually do what we want to do as americans. we are promised liberty. and they have actually put such oppressive restrictions on us, that it's just unacceptable to us. >> and they say, they agree with you, and you have the right, obviously, but you have to balance that right with the risk to people who will be come in there, be breathing all over each other, in too tight a space. gym is different, people are getting exercised.

it's about keeping people safe. counter? >> i would argue that the gym is a place to keep people safe, this is a place where people come to build their immune systems, the strength of their body on the outside and inside. this is a place where we have soldiers that have served our country where they deal with their ptsd. we have recovering drug addicts who use this as an outlet. this is a place that creates health and fosters health. >> how do you keep someone from being sick. i come in and i'm sick. everyone knows i'm a fitness guy. >> you would not be allowed in. when you go to a home depot, a lowe's, a liquor store, they don't do anything but require masks and stay six feet apart from each other. you come into our gym, you stand in front of a biometric scanner

that takes your temperature. you take a pen and put it in a dirty pen so we can disinfect it. your hand on a bottle of disinfectant that is proven to kill the coronavirus at 45 seconds. we have an air scrubber in here, a mobil decontamination unit that circulates 10,000 cubic feet of air per minute through a uv light that provides 99.9% chemical free and virus free air. the science says that the masks don't work, plain and simple. it is a safe place to be. it is not a confined space. we have 25 foot ceilings in our gym. they have taken all gichls and considered them as one. they are not all equal. i agree. >> well, the state says that

too, frankly. look, i don't agree with you about masks, but that's not what we're talking about here. they say, well, no, that's not right. we've allowed outdoor drills. we're allowing one on one indoor martial arts, yoga instruction. i'll allow you to do whatever you want outside as long as you can follow certain rules. >> our governor has allowed outdoor fighting. you can full contact fight outside. you're an athlete, you are one of the tough guys out there, if we're sparring outside and i punch you in the stomach and i knock your mouthpiece out you spit in my piece. governor murphy says you can't get covid that way. >> somehow walking into a facility that's highly regulated that has a 15 point safety protocol that goes far beyond any business in the state, you can get covid because there's dumbbells in here?

it's very inconsistent. >> so here's my concern. i think you have a good case, i'll be honest. i don't think there's malice on the part of the state, obviously, but sometimes they go too far. here's the problem. you lose here because they are the regulatory authority. and what do you do about $10,000 a day, and what do you do if they want to lock you up because they have the law on their side of keeping people safe during a pandemic? >> first of all, executive orders are not laws. we'll fight this to the end. and you actually -- we listened to your part that came on before this, and you seem like you're a big numbers guy. i would like to put some numbers out there for you. are you aware that actually, when this first started there are 2.1 people in the united states in long term care facilities that represent 0.6% of the population, but on july 17th, that percent of the

population represented 53.3% of all the deaths that occurred in the united states from covid. >> yes. >> that's because the governors are not doing their job. in new jersey alone. from june -- on june 1st, the percentage of deaths of total deaths in new jersey in long term care facilities was 42.3%. you would think they have control of it, because they don't let anyone into the facilities since march 13th. when you go back and you think they go down, so from june 1st, the actual total number, percentage of deaths was 42.3%. fast forward to june 23rd. the percentage of total deaths in -- in new jersey, the percentage of deaths from long term care facilities rose to 49.7%. and i brought to the media's attention that for 23 straight

days, more people died out of the 70,000 residents in new jersey that live in long term care facilities than the 9 million people that he calls the knuckle heads. we're not doing what we're supposed to do. and then that day, on june 23rd, he actually -- would always admit how many people died in long term care facilities, how many people died in the general population. on june 23rd, 57 total deaths in new jersey. blessed souls that he says, god help them. 50 of them died in long term care facilities, 7 out of the other 9 million people in general population. >> frank, i don't think it's just about -- >> you know what, there's a task force. there's a task force. the actual u.s. army has a jtf-57 covid 19 task force that was disassembled on june 24th. that task forces job was inside the long term care facilities in

the state of new jersey to document all new cases and all of the deaths. the state of new jersey has not updated any of their deaths in long term care facilities since they disassembled that on june 24th. >> frank, i think it's a -- >> look it up, that's the fact. >> i'm not questioning you. >> you're a numbers guy. that's a fact. >> the bottom line -- >> i hear you. >> we're being blamed. >> i'm not blaming you the way you're suggesting. let me balance it out. >> not you -- >> we're being villainized as small businesses in general, that we're responsible for the spread, but over 50% of the deaths are coming from places that are supposed to be under a governor's -- >> i understand, and there's no question -- frank, give me a chance, give me a chance. >> we have had 15,009 visits to our facility, zero cases. we will have the rapid -- you said something about the rapid test. i will have 250 rapid tests

available to be administered by a nurse on thursday. >> rapid tests are great. >> who else does that? >> i don't know. i think you guys have a good case. i get their general suspicion of cases where you're going to be congested. rapid service turnaround is important. what you're saying about long term care facilities, i'm not questioning it. we did the wrong job by the most vulnerable people. the oldest and the most fragile will die the most in a situation like this, doesn't mean you did it the right way. >> you're knocking trump because of the total numbers. you're knocking trump because of the total numbers. 63.3% of the deaths -- 53.3% of the deers. bottom line, that's a stat that nobody's talking about. >> watch your mouth, we're on television. >> sorry, sir.

>> don't worry about it, i get the passion. one, death isn't the only metric. i'm not blaming the president for the pandemic, i'm not blaming the president when people die, except there's a lot more they could be doing. if the government would be doing what you're doing in your gym, we would be in a different place. if they were killing themselves to figure out the best way to test, we would be in a different place. i'm not blaming you for that kind of stuff. it's not about the president. >> we're being blamed by the governor for being reckless, when we're doing more than what he does in long term care facilities. it's out of control. it's all that happens is conclusionary statements with no science and data to back up that our gym or any small business for that matter is more responsible for the deaths and spread of covid. >> all i'll say -- i don't think death is the right metric, it's about -- obviously death matters

most. >> cases aren't the right metric? what is the right metric. >> healthy people are not dying. >> that's not true. >> i lost my mother from this. >> and i'm very sorry -- >> she got it in the hospital. you're barking up the wrong tree. >> she got it in the hospital. >> frank -- >> my mother got it in the hospital, where they're supposed to protect. >> i'm very sorry about that, and i'm sorry she got it, she succumbed to that one. >> for that. >> death isn't the only way to measure the risk. i'm sorry about you losing your mother. i'm sure you can understand that. i don't want to blame anyone. >> the metrics are changing -- >> getting sick is what they're worried about, not that you're going to kill people. >> no, they're worried about deaths. bottom line is, it's like the flu, if you take death 0.6% of the population, that is responsible for 53.3% of the deaths. this is a mild flu. >> no, there are a lot more

cases, frank. there are a lot more cases and people are getting more sick, and different people are getting sick than get sick with the flu. and we're getting a lot of weird aftereffects with this. we have to take it seriously. that doesn't change the fact that you guys may be doing the right thing. >> it is important to take very seriously. what needs to happen, government needs to start working with the people in order to resume life while taking things seriously. >> i agree. >> when we open back up in may, we opened very publicly for a reason, because there was no plan present and we decided that we were going to put forth a model to work with government. to this day, we've had no outreach from government, even though our plan has been proven to be pretty effective. is it mr., no? you would have thought by now the new jersey government would reach out and say, let me send a health official down there, and let's talk about this, and let's get back on track. >> i don't disagree with that either. >> no. shut up and listen to my executive orders.

if you dare defy them, you will be punished and financially -- >> and obviously, that's not how the administration of justice should work. and you should have the chance to make your case. i don't think it should have to go that far. i don't want to see you guys wind up in court to do this. you're with a howing yourselves to be politicized on this. i didn't mention the president. >> i am the least political person -- >> you brought it up. that isn't on me. if you get seen as a political actor you're going to get treated as a political combat an the. >> that's okay. that's okay with me, because if people didn't know me for my entire life, i never had a political bone in my body. i thought blue states were bordered by water and red states weren't, that simple. bottom line is. >> that's true. >> that is true, everybody that knows me. >> i hear you, but frank, look. >> i made my house into glass and you haven't found anything

to come after me with. bottom line -- >> i'm covering because i think it's indicative of what's happening in a lot of places in the country. i'm going to stay on your story. you're welcome back here to let me know what the next iteration is. it's not about red or blue for me, it's about people who get healthy and live their lives. you have an opportunity here when you want it. i'm so sorry you lost your mom, frank. >> ian smith and frank trumbetti. to be honest, if they want to make it political we can in just this one way. if we had the rapid testing in this country that they have in the u.k., i don't think they have the problem at their gym that they have in jersey. why? because we would have a different cultural reality about how quickly we can detect whether or not somebody has this and we have to move them out of the population. 90 minutes. it would fix a lot of things and keep us safer than we are today.

william schaffner, scientist, doctor, what does he think? next.

those guys are characters but they represent something that's happening with a lot of businesses around this country. let's bring in dr. william schaffner back with us tonight. i have to tell you, i agree with the one size shouldn't fit all. and i agree that a little bit of the preliminary, let's shut everything down wound up catching the good and the bad in terms of its effect. and reopening, i understand the frustration of people saying, i can kickbox outside, but i can't have anybody inside even though they're not going to be touching each other. i can do yoga or i can do one on one training, but i can't have people 15 feet apart with no one up on them.

i get their frustrations. >> i think they're frustration is understandable and emblematic of so many people as individuals that are going out not wearing masks, not obeying social distancing. they don't really understand it, and sure, there are inconsistencies. because one size does not fit all. but in emergent matters we have one size. and that's the way we have to implement large scale public health interventions in order to interrupt the transmission of this virus. >> understood, health has to come first. the problem for the state is, they've made exceptions to the rules and changes within that same genre of business, and then it starts to get a little bit more imbalanced. when you think about a gym, bough go to a gym, and if not why? >> i wouldn't go to a gym. but then i haven't gone hardly

anywhere except briefly to the supermarket and i go to my office, but i'm totally enclosed while i'm there. i'm away from everyone else. so my contact with other people has been really marginal and very very rare. now for several months. >> those guys say. you're better off in their gym than a supermarket. everyone's touching the food. you don't know who is sick and who season. the ventilation system isn't as good. the people working there don't clean the same way they do, because they have to. how much does it matter how a place approaches its protocols? >> of course it matters, it matters a great deal. it sounds as though these fellows have a good case. i'm no attorney, but their constitutional case sounds terribly weak, but i get where they're coming from as human beings and as people who are trying to run their operation in

the best possible way. i'll take exactly what they say at face value. they're in a difficult situation. it sounds to me as though the health department hasn't had a reasonable conversation with them either. >> right. and also, look, they told us early on, i don't know if this is still true, you can tell me this now. that you don't get it through sweat. this virus doesn't transmit through sweat? do we still believe that? >> i don't know anything particular about sweat, but that's something that can be taken care of in a circumstance like that by disinfection and good hand hygiene. we still think this virus is transmitted through close personal contact over a prolonged period of time indoors. that's the major way it's transmitted. we think now also that inanimate surfaces play a role. probably not as important as we thought initially. and we're talking about airborne

transmission that is transmission at a distance. probably also happens on occasion. not very important. it's still close in contact in a prolonged period of time in an enclosed space is where most of the transmission occurs. that's the highway of transmission. others are side streets. >> the overriding factor you've mentioned many times, it deserves to be repeated. if we had better, quick or what we call rapid testing and turnaround of results we would be in a different place, with our schools, our gyms, businesses, reality, we would know in almost realtime who we have to take care of and who we don't. and that would flee up a lot of activity that now we don't know enough to be safe with. dr. schaffner, thank you. we have to continue talking sense. it's the only way we'll get where we need to be. thank you, doctor, we'll be

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young americans experience the breathtaking beaut of the grand canyon. old faithful burst into the sky. when they gaze upon yose mite towering trees. their lv of country grows stronger and know every american has a duty to preserve the wondero wonderous inheritance. >> you know, it's that park where only jewish people are. historian joining me now. personal favorite of mine. welcome to "prime time." >> i'm glad to be with you. >> you and i should take a trip sometime to the yo smite park.

and visit. it's not about the ignorance of not understanding the word. he would later say nothing like this since roosevelt. this president loves to compare himself to the greats. but that's not his job. it's yours. what do you see? >> i think that's true. it's no the sitting president's responsibility or should it be a contest between him and the other presidents. it's true the great act is a good thing to do to make the deteriorating parks get repaired and give jobs. if you want to compare, roosevelt set aside 200 million of the parks in the first place. that made grand canyon safe from the protection of mining interest. the important thing is he stimulated a movement. part of a movement. that was the legacy he left. and almost all the changes that have taken place in the society that really matter are when

there's an outside movement. civil rights movement under lbj was part of. the antislavery movement part of lincoln. the women's movement and gay rights movement. when they connect to people in power something happens. that's what we should be looking for. that's the moment a possible movement with the black lives matter and we need leadership. we can compare i think mr. trump to fdr. that's the really important comparison that so far he hasn't made. >> right. about seeing the challenge and what you do with it in the moment. the great american out doors act was not just a bipartisan bill. it was introduced by john lewis. a man he's gone out of his way to disparage. he didn't come to my inauguration and i'm not going to his funeral. the idea of embracing bigger movement. he spoke about that in a way. play it. >> i did more for the black

community than anybody with a possible exception of lincoln. whether you like it or not. >> you believe you did more than johnson who passed the civil rights act? how? >> i got prison reform done. well. >> he passed lt civil rights act. >> how has it worked out? >> help me with that. >> well. how has it worked out. the south was legally desegregated. allowing millions of americaning to vote. johnson is the first in the speech and civil rights work to say the heros of the acts were the people in the civil rights movement. and when he embraced it and asked for civil rights and asked for voting rights it was because it was not just good for black americans and northern or southern. it was good for all of america

to do this thing. when lincoln was called a liberator because of the emancipation. he said no, don't call me that. it was the antislavery movement and the union soldiers. i was an instrument. he was far more. he gave voice and leadership at that time. to what had to be done. it's that connection between the outside -- john lewis is that outside movement. to not be able to say he was a great man. when we understood what he did on the bridge that produced the great speech that johnson gave. and embraced the civil rights movement. we shall over come. it's incomprehensible to not understand what he was and represented. >> it will be interesting how people like you and others define what trump did in the moment of this pandemic. every president who has a crisis on their watch becomes defined on how they handle it.

we have never seen someone deny the existence of a crisis and push an attitude of inaction. it will be interesting to see how it is remembered. thank you for your perspective. you're always welcome. >> glad to be with you. >> we'll be right back. when you shop with wayfair, you spend less and get way more. so you can bring your vision to life and save in more ways than one. for small prices, you can build big dreams. spend less, get way more. shop everything home at wayfair today. she always wanted her smile to shine. now, she uses a capful of therabreath healthy smile oral rinse to give her the healthy, sparkly smile she always wanted. (crowd cheering)

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i'm chris cuomo welcome to "prime time." we are two hours this week. i'm in for d. lemon. this president went from everything is all under control to this is all going to disappear. to 156,000 plus dead. it is what it is. >> right now it's under control. >> how? 1,000 people are dying a day. >> that's true. it is what it is. >> it is. it is what it is. it is a pandemic that you are not doing enough about on purpose. inaction on