good evening. an unnerving moment at the white house today. shortly after president trump began his news conference, a secret service agent came up to the podium. and immediately, the president exited. here is the change. >> it looks like they're just about going to be topping records, hopefully soon. excuse me? >> what's happening? >> we'll talk in a bit with a reporter who was in the room. president trump, later, did resume his briefing. continued to portray the virus

as under control, which it clearly is not. he also spoke about the executive actions he signed at his new jersey golf club over the weekend. executive actions, which keeping him honest, don't really do anything because there are so many hurdles and caveats. unconstitutional slop is what republican senator ben sasse called the executive actions. in a statement, senator sasse said what the president trump is doing amounts to rewriting law. and that, that is the job of congress. there is also serious doubt whether any of it would be -- would work, as advertised. unemployment benefits, for instance. the executive order says that states are going to have to pay about a quarter of the up to $400 in added benefits, per person. most states don't have that kind of money, they say. and the system that would disperse the money doesn't, yet, exist. one unemployment expert told cnn that building the system could take months. treasury secretary steve mnuchin said it would happen. and when kayleigh mcenany was

asked today, she said i can't pinpoint a timeline, end quote. there is, also, what the executive order doesn't do. doesn't do anything to reinstate the previous moratorium on evictions, which lapsed in july. there is nothing for small businesses or state or local budgets or schools. tonight, we will talk to the aunt of two students who caught the disease in at atlanta area high school. the school that suspended, then -- suspended the suspension of a student for posting a picture that was shared widely online. showing few people wearing masks or social distancing. nine staff and students have contracted the virus now and in a moment, we will talk with a doctor with the american academy of pediatrics. their new report, a 90% increase in cases of children over a four-week period. president was asked about that today. here's what he said. >> does that give you any pause about schools reopening for in-person learning? >> no, because they may have --

as you recall, it may be a case, but it's also a case where there's a tiny -- it's a tiny fraction of death. tiny fraction. and they get better very quickly. >> believe that children are essentially immune? >> yeah, i think they're, for the most part, they do very well. i mean, they -- they don't get very sick. they don't catch it easily. they don't get very sick. and according to the people that i've spoken to, they don't transport it or trans -- it to other people, or certainly not very easily. >> that's not the first time the president has said that. and it's as untrue today, as every other time he said it. >> if you look at children, children are almost -- and i would almost say definitely -- but almost immune from this disease. and i have watched some doctors say they're totally immune. i don't know. i hate to use the word totally because the news will say, oh, he made the word totally and he

shouldn't have used that word. but the fact is that they are virtually immune from this problem. >> if you look at children, i mean, they're able to throw it off very easily and it's an amazing thing. the children obviously have a very strong immune system. maybe, even as strong as yours. they seem to be able to fight it off, and not have a problem. >> again, the children, whether it's immune system. i guess -- i have watching you one night, you said immune system. whatever it is, they're a lot stronger than we are because it just doesn't have an impact. doesn't have any, almost any, impact. >> they do they say don't transmit very easily. and a lot of people are saying they don't transmit and we are looking at that. they don't catch it easily. they don't bring it home easily. and if they do catch it, they get better, fast. >> we'll have more on the content of the president's briefing. first, we want to discuss what we mentioned at the top of the program, which provoked quick response from the white house security, both inside and out. here's the moment again from the

briefing room. >> it looks like they're just about going to be topping records, hopefully soon. excuse me? >> white house correspondent for reuters who was in the briefing room. can you just describe what -- what you saw? >> sure, anderson. actually, right before the -- the moment that you just played, my seat, the reuters seat in the briefing room, is right across from the doors. and i looked over and saw that a secret service agent had locked the door. which is very unusual, obviously. and then, shortly after that, you saw the agent come up or a separate agent come up to the president and interrupt him. he had been briefing for all of, maybe, two or three minutes. and obviously, seemed a little startled that the secret service agent would interrupt him while he's talking to journal ikts. journalists. and then, walked out with him in

the doors, sort of right behind here. he went into the oval office. stayed for a few minutes. and then, came back and continued the briefing. and at that point, he -- he actually seemed to enjoy sort of the -- the -- the live drama of it. and told us what had happened. at least, what he had been briefed on. that someone had been shot outside the white house grounds. but that -- and that, that person had been taken to the hospital. >> i mean, it seems like there was a big response from security forces on the ground at the white house. what is the protocol when something like this happens? >> well, number one, they sort of put everyone on lockdown. and so, the reporters here, were -- needed to stay inside the briefing room. others inside the white house complex, i'm sure would have had to stay where they were and were not allowed to leave. i didn't get a good look outside of what was happening. so i can't really tell you, in terms of the response there. but i can tell you that the secret service issued a statement saying there had been an officer-involved shooting at the corner of -- or at pennsylvania avenue and 17th.

that is roughly a block from where we are, right here. the president, during the briefing, had said that the -- pardon me -- that the shooting had occurred, basically, at the fence that goes around the complex of the white house. in any case, whether it was right at the fence or whether it was at that intersection, it was very close. and it was close enough to have the secret service concerned about the president's safety. >> i should point out. the secret service has just tweeted out that a secret service officer and a male suspect were both transferred to a local hospital. and they, also, went on to say that it -- they said, at no time, was the white house complex briefed or was the president in danger. >> the president also made a point of saying that it had not been breached. but it, nonetheless, was pretty unusual that the secret service decided that he wasn't -- that they weren't comfortable with him remaining at the podium. and that must be a decision that you make in the middle of a situation that is moving very

quickly. and that is dangerous. >> yeah. so was the press corps told to stay in the room? >> well, we weren't really told anything. but we weren't able to get out of the room because, as i said before, they locked the doors. and then, your reporters' instinct of course is to look outside the windows. and my photographer colleagues were taking pictures outside the windows. there were some people outside, already, when this happened. and -- and at least some of them heard the shooting and heard one or two gunshots. and were able to report on that. >> jeff, appreciate it, thanks very much, jeff. >> pleasure. >> more now on what president trump said after the briefing resumed. your chief political correspondent dana bash joins us and chief medical correspondent, dr. sanjay gupta. dana, the president brought up more tax cuts at these briefings. what are you learning? >> that the president is saying as many things as he can, that he thinks are palatable to

people who are even potentially considering voting for him for re-election. he talked about middle-class tax cuts. talked about capital-gains tax cuts. it was really unclear. i mean, he suggested that they are going to try to get those into any piece of legislation that has been stalled for many, many weeks. it's really hard to imagine that that will get in there. when there are really, really important issues that are directly related to the pandemic. this is classic donald trump. and it is, frankly, classic somebody who is up for re-election, just trying to figure out anything that will work because they're very below in the polls. i mean, the other thing that he said, anderson, is that he is thinking act doi thinking about doing an executive order to make pre-existing conditions are the law of the land. pre-existing conditions. making sure nobody loses insurance because of a pre-existing condition is the law of the land. it's called obamacare. and he even said, out loud,

anderson, when he was questioned about that, well, we're just going to do it to be doubly safe. it's a signal to the people. he's, again, saying, out loud, i'm just saying these things, that i am going to do these things, because i'm hoping that people will take it as evidence that i am trying to help them. never mind the reality of the fact in that case, it's already the law of the land. >> right. which they are trying to overturn in courts. >> and there's that. >> right. republicans, senator ben sasse, saying it's unconstitutional slop. is it even clear how this would work? i mean, obviously, despite criticizing obama for executive orders, this president has relied on executive orders to make it look like he is doing stuff. how would this work, exactly? >> we don't know. i mean, we really don't know the answer. i -- i interviewed larry kudlow, the president's chief economic adviser, yesterday morning. and he didn't seem to have any answers. other advisers, also, didn't have answers. and the reason is because they

did it very quickly. and it was largely a tactic to try to get the negotiations, which are completely at an impasse, to do it the right way, legislatively, to try to get them going again. having said that, this is something that the president said he was going to do, which is not just causing democrats to criticize him, as you suggested. also, republicans. the president, then, went back after ben sasse, who is a republican from nebraska. sasse put out a very lengthy tweet and i'll just read you part of the tweet that he said in his retort. he said no president, whether named obama or trump or biden or aoc has unilateral power to rewrite immigration law or to cut taxes or to raise taxes. this is because america doesn't have kings. this is probably the most consistent message that we have heard from any republican, since they were saying the same thing about president obama. but, so far, ben sasse is the only one to speak out as clearly

and as forcefully, to be that consistent, on the republican side. >> sanjay, the president continues to, you know, talk about children and this virus. now, nearly 180,000 kids have tested positive for covid, in the last four weeks. the president, just to be clear, he is now saying that kids don't transmit the virus. like everybody. they don't transmit the virus easily to adults or to their grandparents or to their loved ones. and they don't even get the virus, in a way that, like other people do. let alone, you know, obviously, we know that, in general, the way their bodies handle the virus is different. >> right. i mean, they -- they -- the one thing we can say is they do seem -- children do seem to be less likely to get sick from this virus. that is data we originally saw coming out of wuhan. and it has held up for the last six, seven months now.

but the other two points. they certainly can become infected and do become infected. you know, you're infected if you are carrying the virus. and they certainly can transmit the virus, and they do transmit the virus. we know -- you know, there's been a couple studies. people have been talking about these studies a lot lately but the south korea contact-tracing study, they traced contacts of over 50,000 people. and basically, trying to figure out how likely are different age groups to spread the virus? and what they said, starting that age 10, basically, you are starting to spread the virus like an adult. when i looked at this data closely and i talked to some sources in korea, you should also note that children under the age of 10, largely, didn't have many contacts. so, out of 50,000 contacts, for example, in that study, only 57 contacts were in children ages zero to nine. so i bring that up to say i think the jury is still out on younger kids. we know that they can carry a lot of virus in their nose and their mouths. anderson, i think they've just largely been at home, these younger kids, since middle of march. they are starting to be out and

about more and more now the last couple months with schools starting and things like that. but i think kids can get infected and spread the virus, which is a concern. >> to that point, the world health organization, said the pandemic starting to move into the younger population, globally. do we know what that is attributed to? i mean, i guess, logically, what you just said makes sense. as kids are no longer as isolated and they're going out there, they are more likely to, you know, spread and/or get the virus. and i guess, testing i guess, if it's more widespread, then, more kids are going to get tested. >> yeah. and to be clear on this, because this always gets confused, for whatever reason, the virus is out there. people are infected. testing is simply picking that up. testing doesn't cause people to become infected. i think most people understand that. but i think you're absolutely right. i mean, i could tell you, just from my own personal experience, and then talking to members from the american pediatrics association, it's been hard for kids to get tests. you know, mostly, tests have

been reserved for people who have some sort of symptoms. and again, kids are less likely to be symptomatic. that part is true. but now, i think, because they are going to school, sports things like that, they are trying to get more tests. that could be contributing to this increase. but also, i do think there's increased mobility, among even younger kids now. and that's really, i think, contributing to this. if you look at the numbers in the united states, you have had, as you mentioned, close to, you know, almost doubling of the number of children now confirmed to be infected over the last month. just over the last month. so, that also tells you something. again, they were largely at home for a period of time. and now, out and about. >> sanjay, thanks so much. dana bash, as well. still to come tonight, will there be a college football season? new reports suggest there may not be for the big teams. ramifications no matter what decisions school make. bob costas will be here to break it down for us. and later, joe biden's search, the top picks, and when the big announcement may come. more on that when we continue. in your family,

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>> no, because they may have, as you would call it a case, it may be a case. but it's also a case, where there's a tiny -- it's a tiny fraction of death. tiny fraction. and they get better, very quickly. >> still believe that children are, essentially, immune? >> yeah, i think they're -- for the most part, they do very well. i mean, they don't get very sick. they don't catch it easily. they don't get very sick. and according to the people that i've spoken to, they don't transport it to other people or, certainly, not very easily. >> dr. sean o'leary, his organization helped produce that report. also with us is dr. pete evr ho, dean of the national school of tropical medicine at baylor college of medicine. dr. o'leary, thank you for being with us. do we know why there is this

increase among kids over the last four weeks? >> yeah, good question. i think it's probably a combination of factors. remember, one, early in the pandemic, we were really only testing people that had severe illness or being hospitalized. people in long-term care facilities. so now, as testing capacity has increased somewhat -- of course, it varies by region -- more children are able to get tested. so i think that's one thing. i also think there probably is some element of more children are actually getting infected than they were before, with increased activity, et cetera. getting, you know, out and about more often. and, you know, the other thing i would point out is that what we are seeing in children, really just reflects what we are seeing in the rest of the country. when you see a lot more infections in the general population, you are going to see a lot more infections in children and that's what we are seeing. >> dr. hotez, the president said today that kids don't get very sick. he's repeatedly said that kids are virtually immune. and he is now saying they're not

transmitting it. they don't really -- they have a hard time transmitting it to -- to adults. how concerning -- i mean, we talk talked about this with sanjay. but just factually, it's just not the case. >> yeah. >> sorry, that was for dr. hotez. >> oh, sorry. >> it's all right. >> well, what i'll just say is, first off, congratulate dr. o'leary, american academy of pediatrics, putting out some very important documents about covid-19 in children. they're really important and i'd like to just congratulate dr. o'leary and his team on getting this out. yeah, i think they are responsible for quite a bit of of transmission in the community. we know this. we heard it from sanjay. the south korea study, kids over the age of 10. but now, we know even the little kids, they have lots of virus in their upper airway and their mouth and their nose. and even if they're not releasing as much virus particles, they're still accounting for some transmission. and the point is, anderson, we know what happens when we open up schools in communities where

the virus is either accelerating or even if it's at a plateau, but at a very high level. this is true across the south, now. we've seen what happens in georgia when we open up schools. there's lots of new cases. and then, the risk, of course, is to the older teachers. those with underlying conditions. hospital staff. bus drivers. and teachers will get sick. and this has happened in georgia now. it will happen in florida, when florida schools open. it will happen in texas and other states where you have a lot of transmission. and it -- it will fail. it will fail, catastrophically. and so, we still have come back to this problem, over and over again, where the white house will not lead a containment strategy, especially for the states where there is lots of transmission. and simply won't happen, we cannot open schools safely and keep teachers safe. >> dr. o'leary, the president's also saying that kids don't get the virus as easily as -- as the rest of us.

i understand that kids -- i mean, what we do know and sanjay reiterated this earlier -- is that, you know, kids may have it and be asymptomatic or are more likely to be asymptomatic. that's known. they respond divinely to tffere virus. but the idea that, do kids get it? can one say it's harder for kids to become infected, in the first place? >> yeah. we're -- i think that science is still being worked out, to be honest. it appears, perhaps from some studies, that younger kids may be less likely. he mentioned the south korea study. and if you look at it, the number of children in that study that were infected was relatively small. right? so, i think the science is still being worked out. the one thing i do want to point out, though, is that we -- it's not fair to say that this virus is completely benign in children. we've had 90 deaths in children in the u.s., already, in just a few months, right? every year, we worry about influenza in children.

and there are, roughly, around 100 deaths in children from influenza every year. but when we look at, you know, just the short segment, the short -- the small percentage, overall, of children that have been infected across the u.s. this is not -- we -- we can't say that it's completely benign in children. yes, it's much less -- it's much less severe than it is in adults, particularly older adults. but we all have to take this virus seriously, including taking care of our children. >> and to that point, does it -- do we know that -- that kids -- i mean, is it fully known, sort of any potential long-term effects that kids may have? i mean, obviously, we're all learning about this virus, as we go. and, you know, kids haven't had it, as long as -- i mean, you know, it's only been around for six months. so, is it safe to say that, if they get it, there's not going to be some follow-on effect down the road that we don't know about? >> well, i mean, i think as you pointed out, we are all learning

about this virus, every day. and we were already surprised by this multi-inflammatory syndrome in children. where kids, you know, get very, very sick and that seems to happen two to four weeks after a covid infection. i think, you know, you've probably heard about the covid long haulers. the adults that have long-term symptoms. we -- we don't really know if that's the case in children. there have been some anecdotal reports of children that have lingering symptoms but i think there is still a lot to work out in that arena. >> dr. sean o'leary and peter hotez. thanks so much. appreciate it. sober milestone was just reached. global cases of coronavirus has now reached 20 million, globally. according to johns hopkins university, 20 million cases worldwide. with that as a backdrop, president trump weighing in on reports college football could be cancelled. that the top five conferences, known as the power five, are discussing postponing the season. no decision has been reached. pressure against cancelling the

season is coming, not only from the president and members of congress but, some players as well. joining us now, hall of fame broadcaster, cnn contributor, bob costas. how big a deal would it be if college football gets cancelled, altogether? >> well, as we mentioned before, it isn't just the interest in college football and the revenue it brings to support what are often gargantuan, almost grotesquely overblown football programs with the salaries of staff and facilities and all the rest. it seems to have departed from a real student athlete model, in too many cases. but what can be said for college football and basketball is they support lesser -- i don't mean lesser in terms of importance but lesser in terms of revenue and general interest -- they support ten is anis, soccer, lacrosse, and whatever else. when that revenue goes, there will be a ripple effect on the other programs within these universities. i know that, as you mentioned, a

number of players want to play. and some 1,000 or more around the country put out some sort of list of demands, without which, they would not return to play. which included a 50/50 split of the revenue. that's just not going to happen. i know that there are many people who have said for years, hey, these athletes aren't compensated. but in a true, student athlete model, if sanity prevailed, the scholarship could be well worth over half a million dollars over the course of four years or more in some situations. if these are student athletes and programs don't put such demands on them that they are constantly practicing, constant constant constantly traveling. if you got back to something that was more proportionate, then the scholarship would have more meaning. but meanwhile, these players did say we want to play. including, trevor lawrence, the great quarterback for clemson.

but the bottom line is that these conferences have now decided, the power five expected, in the next few days, to join the ivy league and the mid-american conference and the mountain west. they've decided that it just is not practical. you just can't do it. there's too many needles to thread. the size of the rosters is too large. if they're going to interact with other students on campus, there's bound to be infection spreading, back and forth. and if you're going to isolate them, the way pro athletes can be isolated in a bubble, like the nba and nhl, then aren't you just declaring this has nothing to do with education? has nothing to do with these kids being on campus? they're here to engigenerate revenues. isn't that what you are basically saying? >> ben sasse, jim jordan, some have spoke about a need for football. you know, obviously, people love football. it's incredibly important to america. i guess, question is how does the need measure up to a global pandemic?

>> and especially, if you are talking about football. well, for that matter, basketball, outside a bubble, the nba appears to be successful because they're in a bubble. but playing basketball, you are breathing on each other. you're in close quarters, you're sweating on each other. but for the moment, that's not the issue. foot football is the issue. try to think of an activity that would be less conducive to containing a pandemic than playing football. the size of the rosters. constant, close contact on every play. and a huddle between every play, on both sides of the ball. 22 players at a time. offense and defense. let's get in a huddle, and talk to each other in a huddle. >> travel. i mean, traveling teams is a huge task. >> yeah. now, most of the conferences, when they intended to play and they put out somewhat condensed schedules, they wanted to play only within their conferences. so they cut down on out-of-conference games and

that's more far-flung travel. it's just impossible to manage. we have seen that, even in baseball. where the players are tested, regularly. where they have all kinds of protocols. where you are talking about a smaller number of players, in total. and yet, there have been outbreaks on the miami marlins and on the st. louis cardinals, that has disrupted the season. college football is far more far flung and would be much more difficult to control. >> bob costas, great to have you as always. thanks, bob. >> up next, i will talk with the aunt of two high school students who tests positive for y coronavirus. they attend the georgia school now seen in this infamous photo. we'll be right back. shishito. burrito. raw kitfo. fried shiso.

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at least 826 students and 42 staff members in a very large georgia school district north of atlanta have been quarantined after possible exposure to covid-19. the district is reporting 38 positive cases, among its students. 12 cases among its staff. now, this, as ripple effects continue from the viral photo that appeared last week from another georgia school. a student who took that picture and posted on social media, was suspended. then, reinstated, not long after. that school, north paulding high school, is closed for a few days for deep cleaning. both were diagnosed with coronavirus. angie, thanks so much for being with us. how are your nephews doing? >> they're actually doing pretty well. they're getting better. >> good. and i know your older nephew had symptoms, i think after the first day of school, which was just last monday. do you know where he might have come in contact with the virus?

>> we believe that he came in contact on the football field. playing football. >> i see. >> for the high school. >> okay. is that something he was doing over the summer, too? i guess, for -- i guess, there were practices. >> yeah. yeah. they started practicing in july. >> okay. >> so, i guess, a few of the players had tested positive. but he was -- he was fine. he didn't show any symptoms, or didn't mention any symptoms, until after school on monday. >> and -- and, you know, obviously, the pictures of the hallway at north paulding. you know, went viral. i am wondering, when you saw those, what'd you think? >> oh, i was -- i was pretty mad. i was shocked. i thought that they would have had a -- a -- a plan in place for the kids returning to school. and it was anything but. it was just like a regular school day. >> the -- when writing to north paulding parents to let them know that there'd be no in-person classes today or

tomorrow, the superintendent said the health and wellbeing of our students and staff continues to be our highest priority. do you -- you're smiling with that. i -- my sense is you don't really see that. >> no, i don't. i don't. i don't really think they had a plan in place, at all. and it's -- it's very disappointing. to see that because i really feel like -- i felt -- i felt, to begin with, that the kids started school back, in person, too soon, as it was. i think a lot of parents trusted the school system. that they would have a plan in place, and quite obviously, they did not. >> and i understand, you know, within your extended family, there are some family members who -- who may be more vulnerable to -- to -- to a virus like this. and have -- is it -- have they been exposed, do you know? or did the kids have contact with them? >> so, my husband has multiple

myeloma, which is bone marrow cancer. and yes, my younger nephew was here sunday to pick up a pair of sneakers i had gotten him for school. and of course, we didn't know that he was ill. we stayed outside, socially distanced. we didn't hug. we didn't touch. he then went over to my mom's house, who is also a cancer patient. he did wear a mask in the how is. he did not wear one outside. but, you know, she hadn't seen her grand children in six months and she just really wanted to see her grandchild. and it was the last birthday. little party for him before school started. so it kind of put us all into a little bit of a panic, when we found out that he was positive. my husband and i were tested today. we feel fine. my mom feels fine. my dad feels fine. no one that was around him that day, like his father was around him. he feels fine. so, we all feel fine.

his dad was tested as well today. his mother has tested. and my mom gets a test on wednesday. >> do you know how long it'll take for you -- for y'all to get results? >> they're saying three to four days. so we'll see. >> good. >> it's been taking quite a while in georgia but i have great hopes they are true to their word and it will be three to four days. >> yeah. i'm wondering if you have any -- i mean, obviously, look. these are discussions that parents across the country are having. and, you know, within families, people are having. and having disagreements. what -- do you have a message for -- for, you know, parents and students around the country? >> i do. i mean, i just -- i just think people need to take this virus a little bit more seriously than they've been taking it. when you hear 97,000 children have tested positive in the month of july. when you see the death rate, you

see over 5 million cases, in just the united states. the virus is here. it's alive. and simply, put on a mask. just wear a mask. let's work together and get rid of this. we all want normalcy, and we're not going to get it if we don't help ourselves. it's very frustrating. uh-huh. >> amen to that. angie franks, thank you so much. i really appreciate it. i wish your mom the best and everybody the best. >> thank you so much. >> all right. you take care. >> thanks. >> former vice president joe biden is expected to announce his running mate, anytime, over the next several days ahead of next week's democratic national convention. we will get the latest from our chief washington correspondent next. [ heavy breathing ] allergies with nasal congestion overwhelming you?

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we know joe biden's narrowed down his list of potential running mates. we know the announcement of his pick is expected some time this week. want to get the latest anyway from cnn washington correspond. jeff zeleny. >> two of the final contenders to be joe biden's running mate just happened to be alongside him at the last primary. california senator cam kamala hs and michigan governor gretchen whitmer. his decision is coming any day now, ahead of next week's democratic convention. >> every one of the women i've -- we've interviewed is qualified. and i've narrowed it down.

you'll find out, shortly. >> aides tell cnn he is narrowing it down from a list of at least 11 women, who have you understand gone extensive vetting. people close to the search believe harris, whitmer, and former obama national security adviser, susan rice, are among those he is most seriously considering. with senators elizabeth warren, tammy duckworth, and congresswoman karen bass, also, in the mix. the choice will be historic. marking only the third time a woman will be a running mate. a promise he made. >> he faces pressure from several black leaders who have employed biden to choose a black woman. those pleas have been heard but the decision is up to biden. >> all of the letters. all of the calls. all the statements are being considered, very heartfeltly and i believe he is going to make the right decision. >> harris has long been seen as one of the strongest potential

candidates on biden's list but he met, face to face, last week with whitmer, cnn has learned, as well as at least a handful of other contenders. whitmer's handling of the coronavirus crisis in michigan impressed biden, people familiar say, and the two have grown close. she's been in office less than two years. a point we asked her about, earlier this year. >> i never had the call to washington, d.c. but the fact that there is even a conversation about what the future of our country looks like, and that i'm included in a conversation that has some phenomenal women leaders across this country. is truly an honor. >> friends of biden say he is intent on finding a governing partner, who can help tackle the tremendous challenges awaiting whoever wins the election. >> the best vice president america's ever had, mr. joe biden. >> it's biden's own time as vice president that's guiding and complicating his search. friends say he is looking for a loyal partner, in hopes of building a rapport as strong as the one he forged with president obama. yet, the dynamic of the race and

biden's running mate is different. she will be the history-making choice. a point biden also acknowledges. >> look. i view myself as a bridge, not as anything else. there is an entire generation of leaders you saw stand behind me. they are the future of this country. >> jeff zeleny, cnn, washington. >> there is now an open letter to biden from dozens of public figures in the black community urging him to pick a black woman as vice president. they argue failing to select a black woman means biden will lose the election. want to put that w. kamau bell who is united shades of america and gloria borger, political analyst. kamau, what message do you think it sends in this climate that we are in if biden does indeed choose a black woman? >> i mean, since joe biden started running for president, the country has changed twice. once, with covid. and once, with the killing of george floyd. and everything in history is pushing towards a woman being

his partner on the ticket. and i just think that it seems like joe biden may be overthinking this. but that's -- that's what history is pushing towards. >> gloria, as jeff mentioned, as jeff zeleny mentioned, this partly comes down to loyalty for biden. you covered him for a long time. how important a factor do you think that is? >> uh-huh. very important. but first of all, let me say. joe biden overthinks is? >> this is the way he operates and this is the way he decides. i think loyalty is really important to him. he believes he was incredibly loyal to barack obama. you did not hear when he disagreed with obama. he didn't take it to media. he dntd take it to the capitol hill. the first thing he is thinking about now is do no harm.

he doesn't want to hurt his campaign in any way and he wants somebody who he has a comfort level with. his comfort level with barack obama grew over the years. they served in the senate together but grew closer over the years, so i think he understands that this isn't necessarily going to be a best friend at the beginning, but he wants it to be somebody that he can really govern with. >> what's also interesting, he's made clear that -- he talks about himself as a bridge early on there was some sort of rumblings he may consider, announcing he would only serve one term. which would make him lame duck in the beginning and wiser heads prevailed on that. a lot of this is about the future of the democratic party, i guess, the other side of this, joe biden may not necessarily want a vice president who starts focusing on 2024. >> i know, i think he's thinking too much about what his relationship was like with barack and not what the country needs right now. but what the country needs right know is a vice president that speaks to black people.

oes especially younger black people and progressor black people. when there is a problem are diverse in the black community, joe biden isn't connecting with the younger black audience or the progressive white audience. >> if that is the case, you want a vice president who can campaign and reach out to audiences you may not be able to reach out to various voters in states that you may not have as great a following in, how does that play into this calculous? >> well, i think it plays into it in a large way. don't forget this isn't a traditional campaign, you're not out there on the campaign trail going around the country with tens of thousands of supporters at your rallies. this is someone who has to speak of a different language from joe biden i think in some ways, joe biden talks about reaching across the aisle, very often talks about the old days and how

it used to work in the old days. >> malarkey, i tell you. >> i think he needs somebody who can, as kamala is saying, who can talk to younger people. and who can say, this is what joe and i want to do for this country. and he also understands that it was black voters and black women in particular who helped him win in south carolina, which catapulted him to the nomination, and i don't think that joe biden is going to forget that looking at a general election. >> when you say you think he's overthinking it, do you think it's not as important as he's making it to be? how do you mean that? >> i mean, i'm not running for president, but i would pick a black woman, because clearly that's the way the wind is blowing. when you hear he had a meeting with gretchen whitmeyer, not only is it weird, because we

heard black women, and also she's not that popular with the black people in her state. to me it says, what are you seeing in her that you're not seeing in black women candidates? >> gloria, we remember vice president biden, senator harris had on bussing and school desegregation. the biden campaign says he doesn't hold grudges, he's a human being and human beings have feelings and for better or for worse. is it known whether that relationship has been repaired? >> it's really hard to know about joe biden personally, i can tell you from my own reporting that there are people in that campaign who are still smarting over that, in which she said to biden, i know you're not a racist, comma but -- when they were talking about bussing and segregation in wilmington. not only did he like kamala harris, he knew she was a close friend of his now deceased

friend beau biden. he's a big boy, he's been in politics an awfully long time. biden is not someone who holds a grudge, will people who work with him hold a grudge? yeah, maybe. but they want to win above all else. if they think harris can help him do it, she'll be the vice presidential nominee. >> she did not -- the fact that she was a prosecutor has not engendered her well with the black lives matter -- some in the black lives matter movement. it's a complex decision for him, just because somebody -- he may think, you know, i need a -- i want a black woman, everybody comes with their own baggage in one form or another. >> i'm not here to tell him who to pick. it should be about which black woman, it's not just any black

woman. it's about picking the right black woman. in the middle of this moment in the country where we're turning over how we think about structural institutionalized racism, you want someone who can speak to that. who gives this country the best chance to recover from donald trump? >> right, and -- >> w. kamau bell. >> one more thing, it's a shotgun marriage. and so biden needs somebody he is comfortable with. >> yeah. >> and that person has to be comfortable with him in front of the entire country. >> all right, thanks very much. be sure to catch united shades of america sunday at 10:00 p.m. another programming note, don't miss full circle. it's our digital news show. you can catch it streaming live monday, tuesday and thursday. you can watch it there any time, and on the cnn app at any time on demand and you get alerts about every episode.

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