president of the united states is not disavowing the views. >> and she is a future republican star. i have to go. a federal review in the inspector general looking had in the postal service controversy, we will have that ahead. this isn't just a wifi upgrade.

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as the president talks about holding up funding for the postal service. according to the inspector general spokeswoman. an aide for elizabeth warren, the inspector general is investigating allegations. plus the top official from washington state where they'll be voting by mail mostly. long haulers who appear to get over the disease but then spend months still not feeling well. plus an examination of the friendship that biden and harris have. why begin with the fight over the funding for the postal office and the ramifications it may have. the president's story keeps shifting on the story of funding the post office. what is the latest? >> it has changed pretty much

every day this week. what is important to look at, the president made clear, he understands what the problem is. the u.s. postal service is in desperate need of money. it's more important and pressing now given the critical role that they are likely to play in the election if they are overwhelmingly having people vote by mail. and the president stated it plainly had this week, he said that he wanted to block funding, he realized that democrats wanted to expand mail-in voting and we know his feelings on mail-in voting. he was making it clear it was in political terms viewing it, to say he wouldn't veto coronavirus legislation if it included money for the post office. but he was complaining about a 3.5 billion amount the democrats wanted in order to make sure there are election resources ahead of a -- what's expected to be largely mail-in voting this fall. today he made it sound like he wants to use it as a bargaining chip. he said he would give democrats the 25 billion they're asking for for the postal service if he gets what he wants in this

legislation. now, he said that, we should remind people these talks have all but collapsed on capitol hill. there are no meetings happening right now, there are no discussions going on. the senate is not in session, none of that is moving anywhere at this moment. >> if it's just a negotiating tactic, there's also now, what we learned about a meeting or a talk with the postmaster general. >> yes. so this is interesting, because as you noted, this is the president's ally, a big gop donor who's been put in charge as the post mafrter general. this is the first person to have this position in two decades that didn't come up through the ranks. this is the first person who had no experience before. may 6th is when he was appointed to this job. the president said over the weekend he had not spoken with lewis de joy, they had a meeting in the white house just the week before that. we asked the white house what's up with this discrepancy, the president saying they didn't

meet. they said it was a congratulatory meeting. he got the job in may, so that doesn't make sense either. we should note it did come two days before lewis de joy had this meeting with nancy pelosi and chuck schumer on capitol hill, which was expects to be a tense meeting and did end up being a pretty tense sitdown between the two parties. >> congratulatory meeting before he gets the job. the president went into the city today to visit his brother. >> it's his younger brother robert, he's 72 years old, he's been sick for a few months, and we learned today he's in the hospital. the president described it basically as him being in this gravely ill condition. tonight he was saying things about paying his respects and going to see his younger brother. you don't often hear about robert trump but we did recently because he was one of the family members who led that unsuccessful bid to block mary

trump's tell-all book that came out. sold a ton of copies, angered the president. donald trump went to manhattan today visited him in the hospital. we don't know much more about his condition than that. >> certainly wish him well. these last developments involving president trump and the postmaster general have been building for weeks and months. >> after months of railing against mail-in ballots that he claims without evidence will hurt republicans. >> mail-in voting, it's going to be the greatest fraud in the history of elections. >> reporter: president trump admitting he wants to hold up funding for the postal service to gain political add van damage in november. >> they want $25 billion for the post office, but if they don't get those two items that meanings you can't have universal mail-in voting because they're not equipped to have it. >> reporter: in may, trump installed the postmaster general, and in the last two

weeks an avalanche of developments have raised questions over the agency and the risk that mail delays could have an effect on the election. earlier this month, trump met with de joy in an oval office that the white house said was about congratulating him about his appointment in may. tuesday he met with nancy pelosi and chuck schumer where democrats demanded an end to the cut backs. >> we are not going to stop fighting until state election systems and the post office, which is part of getting the mail there on time get the resources that they need. >> just days after that, de joy announced a major restructuring of top usps jobs that some democrats called a friday night massacre. trump later lying about speaking with de joy, despite meeting with him. >> i didn't speak to the postmaster general of the post office, i know this, he's a very

good businessman. >> over at usps, the warnings of trouble ahead are piling up. >> when you start making cuts, you're delaying the process, you're not speeding up the process. i'm a 31-year postal employee, i've never seen these type of cuts being put in place in order to make the service better. >> the postal service's top lawyer sending nearly all states, including battleground states like pennsylvania, north carolina and minnesota warnings that ballots may not be delivered in time to meet election deadlines. sending election officials scrambling to determine if and how they can change their deadlines. cnn is now learning that usps is removing hundreds of mail sorting machines across the country responsible for processing millions of pieces of mail ahead of an election that could see a historic mail-in voter turnout. all this prompting a rebuke from democrats and republicans alike.

>> now is not the time to be cutting back services. i do disagree with the president very strongly on that issue. but postal service is absolutely essential. >> what we've never seen before is a president say i'm going to try to actively try to kneecap the postal service to encourage voting. and i'll be explicit about the reason i do it. >> the restructuring resulted in unintended consequences. in other words, delayed mail all over the country. and with all this happening, more states are turning primarily to mail-in voting for the general election. the latest, new jersey. and in pennsylvania, state officials say they're willing to accept ballots that have been postmarked by election day, a change in their position prompted by concerns over mail delivery delays. >> abby phillip joins us now. the president continues to say there are cases of vote by mail fraud. what proof is there?

>> the republican party which has brought this suit in pennsylvania to try to curtail some of the changes that are being made, they have until midnight to come up with some proof that there is fraud in mail-in ballots and there is fraud in these drop boxes that are used to collect mail-in ballots without going through the postal service. this is a key case, one of the cases that's going on in battleground states across the country. and the republican party here is trying to push back on the notion that mail-in voting is safe and secure. they are pointing to the use of ballot drop boxes saying that those drop boxes are ripe for fraud. the democrats said you can't just make those claims without providing evidence. the federal district court judge agreed and has given the republican party until today to come up with that explanation.

so we will find out soon if they're able to come up with evidence of fraud. we should note that all over the country, especially those states where they've been voting by mail for years, in has been no evidence of widespread fraud with any of those aspects of mail-in voting, either the ballots or the drop boxes used to collect them. >> the president lied about millions of illegal undocumented workers casting ballots in california, for hillary clinton and that's why he didn't win the popular vote. begin, he just -- this is just made up. abby phillip, thank you very much. i want to bring in kim wyman from washington state. thank you for being with us. this letter to the postal service, warns the ballots will not get back to the elections office in time. how concerning is it? >> it was very concerning. we convened a meeting with our representatives here in washington and our county

election officials. and we had a long talk about specifics and we walked through our mail times in washington, i think is going to be just fine with our existing mail setup. >> do you -- what is the setup in washington? i mean, is it absentee ballots. universal mail-in ballots, what is the system. >> in washington state, we've been mailing ballots in all elections since 2011. we mail out our ballots 18 days before election day. we do it under nonprofit bulk rate, which guaranteed a three to ten day window of time for those ballots to be transported. we are comfortable that our voters, even if it's at the upper end of that service delivery time will receive them in plenty of time to vote. >> you send a ballot to every household? >> yes. >> how often does russia and iran and north korea send fake ballots in to washington to upset the elections in washington?

or how wide spread is your voter fraud in washington? >> so far we haven't had foreign interference in our vote by mail ballots. in 2018, we compared our voter history to other states. we did find 142 cases of double voting or people voting on behalf of deceased family members, we're getting ready to prosecute them. that was out of 3.2 million ballots cast. >> there were 142 cases where somebody double voted or tried to vote for a dead relative? >> that's correct. washington governor jay inzly said the president is try to sabotage mail-in voting by degrading the u.s. mail from doing its job. how do you see -- when you hear the president's rhetoric. how do you interpret that? >> well, i always get worried when people try to politicize

administrative processes like running elections, like delivering mail. we have to be careful because the average voter starts to lose confidence in our election process, and that's the bedrock of our democracy, it concerns me, and we just really try to combat that with the facts. we spend a lot of time sharing with our voters what are the facts and give them the tools they need to be able to vote. >> it's a pleasure to talk to you. it's a pleasure to talk to someone who's interested in the facts. it's getting rarer and rarer. a few weeks ago, you invited the president and attorney general to washington to see how it's done in your state. why do you think it has worked there for so long? >> i think it was the ramp up we had. we spent decades building to this moment. we started in the early '90s allowing any voter to be a permanent absentee voter. we had the closest governor's

race in the country's history, we realized you couldn't do a polling place and vote by mail election well. by 2011 all of our counties were moving -- have moved to that, and we're doing vote by mail elections. >> i should know this, i apologize that i don't. in terms of turnout, responses, how does washington compare to other states that don't have this widespread mail-in voting? >> we are usually in the top six to ten states for turnout across the country in any given election. you look at our presidential primary and the primary we just had a week ago, we had some of the highest turnout in the country. it definitely raises all votes, it doesn't favor one party or the other. it makes it easier for voters to participate, and it results in high turnout. >> you sound like a very

rational state. i may move to washington. >> outstanding, we would welcome you. >> i should be so lucky to move to washington. thank you for all you do. >> thank you. still ahead, the latest on the coronavirus. health officials preparing for human challenge trials. they're creating a coronavirus strarn. we'll talk about the ethics of that and explain how it may work or not. also, covid long haulers, people who live with the ravages of the disease even after it appears they've recovered. the wife of a man who spent months in the hospital is going to join us when we continue. audible is my road-trip companion.

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once again the daily death toll in the u.s. has topped 1,000, it's at 1,208 to be exact. there's news from dr. fauci that the u.s. is creating a coronavirus strain. it's part of what he called a possible plan d that would involve human challenge trials. the strarn is something they would probably not use, but for a far out contingency. joining us now is a former professor at harvard medical school, author of a covid back to school guide. professor, are you surprised the nih is this far along in potential preparation for human challenge trials?

>> i'm not surprised. there have been a drum beat from some quarters for some time. the head of the n.i.h. discussed that himself. i have read about this, and i consider it to be unnecessary, uninformative and unethical. it's not something we should do. >> i think you may have talked about this, a while, months ago, it's been discussed for a while. can you just quickly explain to people what a human challenge trial is? because it's a way of circumventing the long standard way of trying a vaccine. >> that's one view of it. but basically it's treating people like laboratory animals. to do it properly, you'd have to do what you do for the monkey trials, one group gets infectsed with the live virus that can

cause disease and the other without a vaccine. and the other group is vaccinated and gets infected with the same virus. that's how you do it in lab animals. are we really ready to infect people with live virus that can kill them, that can cause as you're about to hear long term damage in young people? first of all, it's unnecessary. you only do anything like that if you don't have a raging infection. you just mentioned how many people are infected every day, there's about 55,000 americans and 275,000 people worldwide infectsed yesterday. isn't that enough to do a vaccine trial? if that weren't enough, it's not informative because you'll only be using healthy young people, not the people that need the vaccine, which is the older people, you're not going to know how it works. it takes a long time to get the answer anyway. finally, is it really ethical to give people a deadly disease when you don't know if the vaccine works? or to give people who aren't

vaccinated a deadly disease that might kill them and there's no treatment? there are people who have done these kinds of things, but with weakened strains or if you have a treatment that can cure you if the vaccine doesn't work. none of those things exist here. again, i would repeat, i believe it's unnecessary, uninformative and unethical. we should not do it. fauci is saying plan d, saying it would be absolutely farout contingency were his words. there's data for other covid 19 vaccines has shown in nonhuman primate trials, some of the animals did get some levels of coronavirus infection. how risky would a human trial actually become? i mean, to your point given all we don't know about it yet? >> well, it's very risky.

first of all, there is none of the vaccines that i have seen that gave complete protection. all of the animals were infected at least transiently. most of them had raging infections in their nasal pharanyx. vaccines don't always protect from infection. the flu virus doesn't protect you from infection, nor does the polio virus. it protects you from having the virus going to your brain. the flu vaccine protects you from getting all the terrible symptoms associated with the flu. but in this case, we have no animal model to know how sick you'll get. we don't have animals that get very sick. >> how optimistic are you about what's been coming out of this operation warp speed?

>> you know, countries all over the world are moving at warp speed. and i would say it looks promising. these vaccines are doing what people wanted them to do, they're giving people good immune reactions, producing neutralizing antibodies. the big question isn't about do these vaccines create antibodies. the real question is about the natural history of this family of coronaviruses. these viruses have somehow learned to fool our immune system, so even after you get it, they can come back every year. the same virus. the same person. this virus looks very similar to those cold viruses. it looks similar. it can kill you, but it looks like from what we're seeing from the early immunology, it can come back. we have never faced a vaccine trial like that. that is the question. we're in an unknown territory. we may be lucky, but we'll have

to be lucky. and i desperately hope we are. but we can't guarantee it. >> thank you, i always appreciate talking to you. >> my pleasure, thank you. the suffering doesn't stop for some victims of coronavirus, ahead one man's seemingly endless battle to recover. and the team investigating the lingering toll of the disease. we'll hear more and more about this in the coming months. i'll talk with the wife of one of those long haulers who spent nearly three months in the hospital. that's next. i can't wiat to share at&t's big 5g news... (shouting through the glass) at&t has nationwide 5g?

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cruelty of coronavirus doesn't go away for some people, dr. anthony fauci calls the problem very disturbing, he says experts are seeing more people who appear to recover from the

viral part only to start feeling sluggish weeks later. side effects do not stop there. dr. sanjay gupta ravaging the battle months in. >> four months later, my stomach is not what it used to be. >> i've been treated as covid for 97 days. i'm pretty much in the throws of it. >> they are known as long haulers, diagnosed with covid 19 but months later, still experiencing symptoms. >> everything from blood clots, seizures, tremors. i have a lot of neuropathy. i don't have control of the left side of my face. and some issues with memory loss. >> 50-year-old michael regan had always been on the go. rock climbing, running, scuba diving. and then just like that, everything changed.

>> when did you first feel sick? >> well, on march 22nd which was a sunday i woke up in the morning. i was unable to catch my breath. i went into the bathroom and coughed up blood. >> regan ended up the same day at lenox hill hospital in new york city. at the time in the spring, it was the epicenter of the u.s. coronavirus pandemic. >> i remember seeing stretchers come in with lots of people, people gasping for breath. >> his symptoms dire. >> my blood pressure was out of control. it was 200 over 100 and something. my heart rate got as high as 200 beats a minute and i was gasping for air. >> fortunately after five days, he began breathing more easily with the help of medications. he never went on a ventilator. but he spent the next two months in and out of the hospital. >> we realize that the patients don't fall into the black and

white, some patients are sick and then they get healthy again. and some patients are sick and then they die. >> dr. chen is medical director of the center for post covid care for the mt. sinai health system. a first of its kind in the country focusing on recovery. for the first several months, doctors have been just trying to figure out this disease. but now the long term effects are also proving equally mysterious. >> if you have shortness of breath, we're looking do see something on a cat scan or pulmonary function testing to see there's specific organ damage. the reason we break this down, we need to look at it physically to see what the virus actually does to your organs physically. >> the cdc estimates 35% of adults are not book to normal two to three weeks after testing positive. still experiencing difficulties

breathing, nerve pain or even memory loss and brain fog. a study of 143 italian patients, found that 87% of them reported having at least one lingering effect 60 days after the onset of their first symptom. >> is there some way of predicting who is more likely to have these persistent symptoms? >> i would presume that if you had a pre-existing condition that the infection with the virus can worsen that condition. again we're also seeing patients who are previously healthy, but their symptoms have also persisted throughout their illness and beyond. >> it's truly a medical mystery that dr. chen and michael regan hope is solved. >> when i was in the throws of fighting covid, i was only focused on breathing. i was scared to go to sleep because i would stop breathing. it wasn't until i was generally doing better that i noticed a lot of the other symptoms. i know other people must feel

the same. >> dr. sanjay gupta, cnn reporting. >> stacy berlin's husband is one of the long haulers, he spent 89 days in the hospital, six weeks in rehab. he just came home. stacy joins me now. first of all, how is your husband doing. and your kids? i mean, everybody, how are you doing? >> that question can be answered daily differently. every day is a new challenge. it's been a long road. unknown road, but he's home and he's a miracle. and he's doing great. when i say great, because he's home, mentally he's fantastic. his body needs a lot of healing still and a lot of recovery. as you mentioned, he was 89 days in the hospital. 76 of those on a ventilator. >> wow! >> we don't know long term

effects. he came home with lots of stuff. he has oxygen, he has a chest tube. he's got a wound vac. he needs therapy, ot, pt. we don't know long term what this looks like for us or my family. it's been a really scary time for us. >> and i know that's why you were willing to talk about this, because -- i think it's so important that you are, because you and i were talking good we went on air. you see people on television who come out and look great and seem to be resuming their normal lives. and yet that is not everybody's story. and we're hearing more and more people now like with your husband. i mean, do you know how long the road ahead is? >> we do not know. it's unknown, just like this

virus is unknown. you don't know what long term effects they'll have, we don't know if he'll be 100% one day. it's day to day, we take it one day at a time. we have to continue going to doctors. you know, we still had -- like i said, a long road ahead of him. and we're hopeful that he will return to his normalself, whatever the new normal will be. hopefully, if not 100%, 90%. >> i know you -- you weren't obviously able to be in the hospital, you had to manage all of this over the phone, which is its own nightmare. because you -- i assume you never really know who you're going to get, what doctors, what nurses, things like that. and your husband was in and out of it, i understand he doesn't remember even a lot. he doesn't remember how sick he was. so you're the one who really went through this, the emotional roller coaster of this? >> absolutely. he was in isolation for

basically the whole time, the four months he was gone. i had no contact with him. everything was done through the phone. the phone was my lifeline. there wasn't consistency from day to day, i didn't know who i was going to speak to. i didn't know what i was going do hear on the other end. i was glad when i got an update that he was still here, still -- vitals were okay, but from day to day it was a roller coaster ride. didn't know what i'd wake up to in the morning. it was quite scary. not being able to be with him. the doctor's learning on him as they went along, so to speak. he was a guinea pig, and thankfully, they pushed him along, and he was a fighter and he got to this point. it's very draining on a family to have to go through something like this. no human contact, i had no --

just to have a lifeline, i was at the mercy of them. i had to advocate for him over the phone and get daily calls. >> what do you want people to know? there's people walking around without masks. i imagine it infuriates you, given all you have gone through and have gone through. and will be going through. what do you want to say to people. >> i want to tell them that my husband had no pre-existing conditions. he was active, he was a father of two, he works this could happen to anyone. this is not the flu. this is something to be taken serious. i would not wish this on anyone. any family to have to go through what we're going through. i don't know for how long. wear a mask, this is serious business here. and don't be selfish. you need to protect your family, other neighbors, whoever. please please wear your mask and wash your hands.

>> stacy, i'm -- i really appreciate you talking tonight. and i -- please give my best to your husband and your whole family. we wish you the best on this road. you're incredibly strong and thank you. >> thank you for hearing my story. putting masks to the test. face masks come in a lot of different styles and materials. the question we all want to know is which one works best. ...steering life at 10 and 2. you're prepared for this. and so are we. soon you'll get back to skipping the counter without missing a beat. back to choosing any car in the aisle. back to being the boss of you. go national. go like a pro. today's discussion will be around sliced meat.

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putting masks to the test. face masks come in a lot of different styles and materials. the question we all want to know is which one works best. we share new research with duke university and guidance from a top medical group. all masks are not equal. randi kaye looks closer. >> 3, 2, 1. >> inside this lab at florida atlantic university, two engineering professors are putting face masks to the test. to see which are best at stopping the spread of coronavirus droplets. to find out, they filled this mannequins mouth of water and glycerin. to simulate talking or coughing.

then a green laser captures the droplets that escape. we tested a handful of popular masks, including this one. people like the valve because it let's them breathe easier. the professors found the valve also allows potentially dangerous droplets to escape. >> what it does, it just basically let's out all the droplets through the exhalation valve. >> another popular mask faired poorly too. watch what happens when the mannequin talked wearing this single layer gator. >> it's surprising because it seems to let everything through without any stoppage. >> we also tested the gator for a heavy cough. remember, this is a single layer. it barely filtered the droplets.

let's turn out the lights and simulate a cough. the droplets travel straightforward as far as three feet. >> next up, a single layer bandanna made of 100% cotton. >> what you see there is that this cotton one layer mask performed a little better than the gator. you still get some leakage coming through. it felters some of the droplets but some escape through with a single layer. they don't go very far, but probably about six inches from the face when you're just talking. >> the droplets travel about two feet and can accumulate over time in a room where people are gathered. this double layer mask made of quilting cotton also spread respiratory droplets when the mannequin talked and coughed, not as badly as the gator and the bandanna. >> it doesn't go very far, probably 2 to 3 inches from the

face. so significantly better than the other masks. >> the double layer is in line with new cdc guidance, suggesting two layers make all the difference. what about those blue many people wear? they did well but there is room for improvement. when the mannequin talked, hardly any droplets were expelled. but when it coughed, quite a bit leaked out the top. though, still, not much went through the mask. so, the professors were impressed with the filtration. remember, without any mask, if someone coughs, simulated virus droplets can travel as far as 12 feet. well beyond the six-foot social distancing guidelines. so, even if a mask isn't perfect, the professors say, wear one. >> which mask do you think is the best mask?

>> okay. so, the -- i think, there are obviously no one mask that's the best. mask that's well-made, you know, a number of layers. maybe, two or more layers. which allows, you know, feels comfortable on the face. fits well. i think that would be a good mask. >> randi kaye, cnn, dania beach, florida. coming up. he lost a fierce battle with brain cancer. the spirit of joe biden's son. how bo biden helped bring the vice president and senator kamala harris together, years after he died. a reason 1 serum is sold every minute! revitalift hyaluronic acid serum. with our highest concentration of hyaluronic acid. visibly replumps skin. and reduces wrinkles. revitalift hyaluronic acid serum from l'oréal. here's a choice you don't have to make.ses are always making choices. the largest 5g network...

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on monday, after 27 candidates formed the most diverse group to ever seek the presidential nomination, the party will officially begin to unify. the mostly virtual democratic national convention will nominate joe biden, along with kamala harris. former first lady michelle obama and governor john kasich.

tuesday's list, president clinton and alexandria ocasio-cortez. and former president obama. and on thursday, more of joe biden's former 2020 rivals will appear as he accepts the democratic nomination for president. one name you are likely to hear through the week is that of bo biden. joe biden's son who died in 2015. senator harris talked about the relationship that they had during the announcement of her being picked to join the ticket. the memory of bo biden is something that clearly binds senator harris and former vice president biden. mj lee, tonight, takes a closer look. >> reporter: joe biden selecting kamala harris as his vice presidential running mate. a decision, he says, is all in the family. >> kamala, you've been an honorary biden, for quite some time. you know, i came, first, to know who kamala was, through our son, bo biden. they were friends. >> harris, once the attorney

general of california, served alongside biden's son bo. >> i would now like to introduce a great attorney general, the attorney general of the state of delaware, bo biden. >> rising political stars. just four years apart, harris and biden forged a close friendship as they tackled shared issues. >> there was a whole -- about how big banks had been involved in activities. >> bo biden lost his battle with brain cancer at the age of 46. harris attended his funeral service in wilmington, delaware. his death came in the middle of his father's vice-presidency. and joe biden, devastated by the loss of his son, announced months later, that he would not run for president in 2016. >> unfortunately, i believe we're out of time. the time necessary to mount a winning campaign for the nomination. >> four years later, biden and

harris, both on the campaign trail, as political rivals running for the white house. then, there was this key moment in the first democratic debate last year. when harris sharply criticized biden for his past work with segregationist senators. >> you know, there was a little girl in california, who was part of the second class to integrate her public schools. and she was bussed to school every day. and that little girl was me. >> it's a mischaracterization of my position across the board. i did not praise racists. >> reporter: biden, later, expressed surprise at the attack. >> i wasn't prepared for the person coming at me the way she came at -- she knew bo. she knows me. >> harris ended her presidential campaign in december. and, in march, endorsed biden with a tribute to his son. >> i got to know joe through bo. and bo showed courage, all the time, and conviction. and he spoke with so much love about the father who raised the

man that he was. i know joe. and that's why i'm supporting him. >> reporter: sources tell cnn harris spoke, at length, about her relationship with bo biden in her interview with joe biden's vice presidential selection committee. and it was that relationship that, clearly, impacted biden's decision. >> my campaign's always been a family affair. every campaign i've run. i know how much bo expected kamala and her work, and that mattered a lot to me, to be honest with you, as i made this decision. >> mj lee, cnn, new york. >> meanwhile, the republican convention begins a week from monday. but even with president trump trying to sow doubt about mail-in voting, there is an aspect of the last election that could come roaring back into view in 2020 electoral votes. john beerman is here. john, so what prompted you to do this? >> well, anderson, two times, in

the last five elections, two elections out of the last five, we have had a president who lost the popular vote but won the electoral college. and, on top of that, in this election, it could happen, by an even wider margin. donald trump lost the popular vote by about 3 million votes last time. depending how it goes, he could lose by about 5 million votes and it just seemed to me, that's something the american people would want to know more about. a fe nphenomenon like that. how does it keep happening? why does it keep happening? and there was a supreme court case, little bit of a separate issue but got to the idea of electors, themselves, and if they choose or have a choice at all who they vote for president. >> the question why we still have an electoral