that are running this business, i don't need them. i spent about three and a half years dreaming up the honest company and really found my purpose in building this company. >> well, her company, the honest company became a billion-dollar company. hear hour discussion with al bb and others tomorrow night at 10:00 p.m. eastern. good evening. more than 170,000 americans lost their lives and 5.6 million have been infected. we crossed that terrible milestone just late today at about the same time the university of washington's institute for health met tricks and evaluation released yet another new forecast. this time predicting a death toll of 310,000 people in this country by december. the institute director joins us to talk about that keeping them

honest about allegations, the post office is simaticly crippled with the president's approval by a major campaign don donor. you've probably seen video being taken offline or being taken apart. just last week the postal service warned 46 states it can't guarantee that all mail in ballots will arrive in time to be counted. and it's hard not to connect that potential effect, disinfran changing tens of millions of people with the video above and those are just some of the things postmaster general dejoy has been overseeing in his first months on the job. the changes slowed the delivery of prescription drugs and live chicks s ts to farmers. governmental affairs committee, the postmaster general pledged the same would not happen to mail in ballots. >> as we head into the election season, i want to assure this

committee and the american public that the postal service is fully capable and committed to delivering the nation's election mail securely and on time. this duty is my priority between now and election day. >> that's from his opening statement. the words sound reassuring but for anyone worried about his commitment to sacred duty, he offered little assurance. >> will you bring back any mail sorting machines that have been removed since you've becompost master general? >> there is no intention to do that. not needed. >> you will not bring back any process processers? >> they are not needed, sir. >> we spoke with the union president in north carolina. so are those needed? i assume removing them was the argument given was that it was obsolete. they weren't necessary. >> oh, no, absolutely not.

>> that was me. she said switch machines in her area were removed each capable of handing 4.5 million pieces of mail a week. as we reported, the postmaster was overseeing plans dating back to may for removing machines across the country. today he committed to making no additional changes until after the election but as we reported, the sorting machine removals were scheduled to be completed by late last month. the damage may be done. for policy changes, kr,cnn obtad documents showing plans were in the works for treating election mail differently and since reversed what dejoy did mention in his testimony while ignoring the fact that they were operational and wouldn't agree to disclose the basis for some key decisions he's made. >> we need transparency and the changes you've been making and in everything that you've

discussed here today will you commit to providing this committee with any and all transcripts or minutes of all closed, non-public word of governor meetings from this year by this sunday. can you commit to that, sir? >> no. ma'am, with policy changes that i -- >> yes or no, sir? >> the policy changes that i brought upon were not the ones that you identified in your -- >> so you didn't do any analysis how seniors would be impacted. okay, let's move on. our deployed service members routinely cast ballots by mail. >> senator, the announcement this week should show we would improve service to every constituent. >> i would like to see the analysis to our offices by this sunday. can you commit to that, sir? >> no, ma'am. >> can you commit to transparency, sir? that's all i'm asking. >> we're very transparent.

>> well thanks is senator jackie rosen of nevada that joins us in our next hour. here is her republican colleague from utah. >> assuming as i do you've been truthful in your testimony today, i can imagine how frustrating it is to be accused of political motives in your management responsibility. at the same time, you can certainly understand there have been pretty good reasons for people to think that you or your colleagues are purposely acting to suppress voting or you're going to purposely prevent ballots from being counted. >> there is pretty good reasons including policy changes, some reversed and some partially carried out but perhaps the key reason why lewis dejoy is under suspici suspicion, keeping them honest suspicion flows from the fact dejoy is a mega donor to a president that doesn't like people voting by mail and doesn't want to give the post office money to make it possible. it not us saying it but the

president himself. >> they want $3.5 million for something that will turn out to be fraudulent that's election money basically. now, they need that money to have the post office work to take all of these millions and millions of ballots. in the meantime, they aren't getting there. by the way, those are two items. if they don't get those two items, you can't have universal mail in voting because they aren't equipped to have it. >> more on this from cnn chief white house correspondent jim acosta. what is it about democrats taking on the postmaster general? >> the white house issued a veto threat to house democrats are going to try to pass and they are likely to pass and veto that legislation in a statement put out to reporters, the white house accused democrats of over

reacting to what they described as sensationalized 34media reports. the other thing is that just this evening we were provided with talking points that are being put out by their committee and trump campaign to sure jets to a conspiracy theory. he used a speech but anderson, to hear the president's team talk about democrats latching on conspiracy theorys is rich when the president is spreading there will be wide spread voter fraud on election day because of mail in balloting when he just hasn't offered proof that would happen. >> what about the vow by the president to send law enforcement to polling places? >> yeah, we've been trying to ask white house officials about this all day long. the only person that would offer up any kind of a comment was the white house counsel or kellyanne

conway who denied that this is at all a voter intimidation but when you hear the president talking about you know sending out police officers and sheriff's deputies and so on to polling places, that obviously is going to be intimidating to some voters that will show up at polling places in masks and so on worried about covid-19. the other thing that needs to be pointed out, anderson, the president when he initially made the comments was talking to fox in the middle of the democratic national convention. he's been triggered all week long by what is going on at the dnc. i talked to a republican operative close to the trump campaign today that said that joe biden's speech last night blew out of the water the trump campaign line that joe biden is quote unquote sleepy joe and so it's no surprise that the president would be throwing out that kind of red meat talking about sending police officers and deputies to polling places. the white house is not denying the president may do that.

they are saying it's not voter intimidation, even though it sounds like it. >> jim, thanks very much. colorado secretary of state is weighing in on the talk about law enforcement quoting from her statement, sending law enforcement to polling locations is designed for voter intimidation rather than e l election security. when the president says he's going to a law enforcement polling location, why do you say that's voter intaintimidation? >> that's what happened during the jim crow south. local law enforce 789mecement w to scare black voters and we saw that in the '80s. that's what the rnc was used for using law enforcement off duty to try to intimidate black and latino voters and i'll tell you, anderson, this is a scary segment for the national history

to be back here and also tell you that i will not allow the president to use law enforcement to intimidate voters here in colorado. >> legal experts said the president has no authority to deploy local law enforcement officials to monitor elections but the campaign could hire off duty police to work the polls. does that sound right to you? >> that's right. the president does not have authority over sheriffs and just to be perfectly clear, any type of voter intimidation is ig llll whether doj observers to federal officials. if they are trying to intimidate voters, we will stop them. but i think this is part of a bigger pattern, anderson. not only does the president not like vote by mail, the president does not want americans to vote. he's forcing americans to risk their very lives to be pushed into crowded polling centers and then he's saying if you do go vote in person and wait in those

long lines we see in many states, not only will you be potentially intimidated, you'll also be in crowded places during a pandemic. so overall, it's just a shame that the president is taking our nation in the wrong direction and luckily, we have great states like colorado that can show the nation how we can vote during a pandemic in respect of people's civil rights. >> i mean, i don't quite understand that the president is saying he will send sheriffs and law enforcement to polling places on election day, i assume is this to allegedly prevent the phantom voter fraud which he has continually been saying exists and is wide spread in this country even though by every study that's been done, there is just no evidence of wide spread voter fraud. >> well, he's saying it's for election security. so whatever that means. you know, there is a law that troops can be deployed if there

are armed emmiey -- enemies at polling sundcenters. you know, colorado we vote by mail and send a ballot to every voter and also have in person early voting, same-day voter registration, polling locations across the state, hundreds of drop boxes and things go really well. we have clean elections. we have accessible elections. and we're the gold standard of the nation. i would tell president trump if he tries anything in colorado, i'm not going to let him. we'll have a great election in november. >> the postmaster general said the postal service is quote fully capable and committed to delivering the election mail securely and on time. given every colorado voter receives a mail in ballot, are you satisfied? do you believe that? letters had gone out across the country to states saying that there might be delays.

>> i grew up in a small town and america and the post office and use it for everything whether packages to medicine. the post office needs to work. i thought it was good but the postmaster general said he would stop trying to attack the post office but i tend to agree with senator romney that we need assurances in writing to make sure that we can have confidence in november and the post office. you know, in colorado, our colorado election model has features that will enable us to with stan withstand a slowdown. we actually ask coloradoens to stop returning them eight days bh before election day and there is hundreds of drop boxes across the state. >> apriest dwrat your time.

thank you very much. we have the covid modelling of 300,000 dead by december and how kids going back to class factor in and the striking grim projections could be reversed. later anthony joins us bannon is facing federal felony charges. plus an immediate cooling sensation for your throat. feel the clarity, and live claritin clear.

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jump in the back seat, jim. act like my kids. how much longer? -exactly how they sound. it's got massaging seats too, right? oh yeahhhhh. -oh yeahhhhh. visit the mercedes-benz summer event or shop online at participating dealers. get 0% apr financing up to 36 months on select new and certified pre-owned models. two pieces of breaking news and couldn't be less sad. we passed 175,000 deaths a

modelling for evaluation now forecasting 310,000 fa stalitie by december, up 15,000. not surprising public health officials in nebraska, minnesota and south dakota reporting cases connected to last week's massive sturgis rally. dr. murray, sanjay, i want to ask about sturgis in a minute but first, dr. murray, a staggering number. the projection that you're now having it a rise by 15,000 deaths, that's just in the last two weeks. what accounts for that? >> well, i think what is accounting for that, anderson, is that in some states, california is a good example, cases peaked, coming down but deaths haven't. we're not completely sure. they are staying pretty steady.

we're seeing upswings in transmission in places like kentucky and minnesota, indiana. so it's sort of general pattern. there is more happening around covid than we expected for this time of the year and that's playing out into these forecast as we go into the full when we expect transmission to go up for a variety of reasons. >> dr. murray, there is 133 days left in the year so you're saying 1,000 meal dying a day on average for the rest of the year. so plateauing sort of where we are now sounds like but also when i read the report, it also makes the assumption in states that have death rates that rise above eight per million people, those states will impose mitigation mandates. that's where florida is right now. we're looking at this data earlier. do you think that's going to happen? are states like florida going to

impose mandates again do you think and if they don't, does that mean the models will go higher? >> well, that's part of the reason that the numbers are up from our last release because we had thought that some of these states like florida would have put machine dandates back in pl earlier in the month and they have not. the reason we still base our best forecast on that idea is when you look across the u.s., across the world, that's about the threshold people put mandates back in place. now, you know, it really depends what our leaders do and clearly things can be worse. we have a worse scenario in what we release and that's many, many more deaths and in fact, by the time december rolls around if we don't do anything at all, the daily death toll in the u.s. will be much higher than 2,000 deaths a day we would expect by

december could be 6,000. depends what we do as individuals and what government does. >> you're saying if we don't do anything in addition to what's already being done there could be 6,000 deaths a day or is that -- can you explain that? >> sure, that's assuming that not only we do nothing but that governments decide to sort of go for relaxing the mandates progressively between now and december. sort of a worst-case scenarisce >> okay. >> it not what we think will happen. just gives you an idea how bad things can get as we roll into the fall and unfortunately in some parts of the world, not yet in the u.s., we are seeing real resistance to sort of reacting when things start to get bad. >> well, you say mask use is at 55% now. that getting it up to 95% would say 6 9,000 lives by december

1st. getting the population in the quite to 95%, rationally you think of course, 95% of the people if they could save 69,000 lives, of course, people would just put on a mask and it not that big a deal but clearly for a lot of people, it is. >> it is. it not really understandable but how do we get there is the more important point. there is two parts, anderson. one is we need state governors to take action like arkansas has just done where you're putting in place mask mandates. we need those mandates to have some teeth so there is a fine if you're caught without a mask. we know that will help a lot. but we also need our political leader, business leaders, community leaders to really take up the charge. i think the combination of those two could make us look like most

of latin america where mask use is high and most of southeast asia where mask use is high. it possible but will take a concerted effort but the em eim is extraordinary what itcould achieve. >> yeah, 69,000 lives. sanjay, just people traveling, the more -- what more are you learning about infections connected to the sturgis rally in south dakota? >> keep in mind this rally ended five days ago. it was a ten-day rally in south dakota and they tracked the number of vehicles that came in. it was over 400,000 vehicles that came in. a lot of people were there. what we're hearing is there has been at least 26 people who have been confirmed to have been infected in three different states including south dakota, including nebraska and minnesota and again, just five days since the rally ended. you know that you can take a long time to get tested, to get test results back so we expect numbers to go up.

a lot of people out there clustered together and results on lots of indoor events as well. they start to do testing and find people infected and likely spread this. this is the concern, anderson. you can have significant what are called super spreading events at things like this, people come from all over the country. they go back to their communities and that causes a problem. it tough to contact trace when you have this much viral spread in the country. 400,000 people in one place. >> it is tough to contract trace when you talk to folks who are intentionally not wearing masks and are also brushing by each other in outdoor spaces and are interacting with a lot of people milling around. so that's got to be tough. sanjay, thank you. dr. murray, thank you. as always, appreciate it. the return to classrooms and colleges will be a key factor in driving numbers. want to talk with duncan who

served as secretary of administration. i'm wondering what you make of the white house decision to clear teachers of essential workers. they are essential to american life in a broad sense and legally and technically, is it a move based on politics to force schools to reopen? >> frankly, it means nothing. president trump has lost all credibility on this issue of fighting the virus a long, long time ago. he's made himself irrelevant. declare nobody is paying attention. my real concern is yes, teachers are absolutely essential workers. i'm worried they will look for essential services themselves soon and what people aren't talking about is the real budget hit that so many k to 12 districts across the country will face this school year and when teachers and custodians and lunchroom workers are by for the biggest line item in any butt g -- budget, if those happen

school districts will lay off if the federal government doesn't step up. what the white house has to do is make a $2 billion investment across the country so they can open up safely and staff would have the ppe they need, additional bus drivers, whatever it might be. there is no investment. decoloration,s of whatever coming from the white house are absolutely meaningless. >> vice president pence said this morning that teachers being declared essential means they will be prioritized for ppe and support and the critical work designation could be used to in his words, threaten, bullry a ye rooms. >> they need to invest in public education. when states are crunched and local property taxes are going down, sales taxes are going down, the only backstop there, anderson is the federal government. in 2009 we had such a tough economy as we came in with president obama, we put $100

billion behind k to 12 education. this is obviously a much, much harder time this white house has done almost nothing to ensure that children have a chance to go to a physical school and adults who care so much about them are safe. >> seems like administration is all for local school districts making their own decisions in normal times and then in a time like this, it's the federal government, you know, mandating that the schools be open or that they have essential worker designation. >> they can't mandate anything. these are words. it another temp to bully. we've seen this in so many different aspects how we operate. they have no ability to mandate anything and again, people see through it and it just adds more chaos to a system that's already struggling. repeating myself, they need to invest in public education now to give our children a chance to go back to physical school safely. >> so when you talk about budgets being cut, that's because of the tax basis

shrinking, that's how schools are funded? >> exactly. the vast majority, usually 90% of funding for local education comes at the city, the local and state level. 10% comes at the federal level. when those local budgets get crushed, the only backstop is the federal government. again, that's what we did in 2009. the federal government has to step up now and do that. this is another point, smaller point but critically important all summer while schools are physically closed and at the end of the school year, march and april and may, school districts across the country fed tens of millions of meals to children to their siblings and families. schools aren't just places of education but social safety nets and unbelievable food distribution centers with week recalls with school leaders across the country every week since march. we need the usda to provide waivers to school districts so they can continue to feed kids as we go into september without

those wavers, kids, many of whom have been hungry, many more families losing jobs, most families are insecure in a way they haven't been. the usda has to step up and give school districts the flexibility to take care of kids and families now. >> appreciate your time. thank you. >> thank you so much. got breaking news, joe biden and kamala harris give their first joint interview. straight ahead what they had to say and what we know about the landscape of the gop convention that begins on monday. feel the clarity of non-drowsy claritin. and 24-hour relief from symptoms caused by over 200 indoor and outdoor allergens. like those from buddy. and for kids, try children's claritin. the only brand that provides 24-hour non-drowsy allergy relief.

webut you can't lose sight of your own well-being especially if you have a serious chronic medical condition. at aetna, we're always here to help you focus on your health. because it's always time for care. wow. jim could you ipop the hood for us?? there she is. -turbocharged, right? yes it is. jim, could you uh kick the tires? oh yes. can you change the color inside the car? oh sure. how about blue? that's more cyan but. jump in the back seat, jim. act like my kids. how much longer? -exactly how they sound. it's got massaging seats too, right? oh yeahhhhh. -oh yeahhhhh. visit the mercedes-benz summer event or shop online at participating dealers. get 0% apr financing up to 36 months on select new and certified pre-owned models.

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tonight with abc news. former vice president joe biden and kamala harris, not surprisingly assailed president trump and called the trump administration of being ridden with quote incompetence. harris was asked to rerespondspa series of insults. >> president trump referred to you as nasty, a mad woman, a disaster, the meanest most horrible, most disrespectful of anybody in the u.s. senate. [ laughter ] >> how do you define what you hear from the president? >> listen, i think so much comes out of donald trump's moth to district the american people about negligent, harm -- >> and incompetence. >> absolutely. >> the idea he would say something like that, no president, no president has ever said anything like that.

no president has ever used those words. no president said people coming out of fields were tortious and met by people that oppose them and someone dies and he says there are good people on both sides. no president of the quite has ev -- united states has ever said anything like that, ever. >> the republican convention gets underway monday with little being made public about the same of the presentation. the delegates will vote to renominate president trump on the first day and vice president pence, first lady melania trump and nikki haley will be among speakers. beyond that, not so much. perspective from amanda c carpenter and dana bash and abby phillip. dana, do you have any more sense of what to expect next week? democrats arguably, you know, for there was obviously some awkward moments but overall was an effective convention. i think you can say there were high-profile speakers, pretty

c cohesive themes. >> so effective that i got a text from a top democratic official. they don't even know they will go back to the way it traditionally has been done because they packed so much in given this kind of format. it's not a surprise that we don't know that much about the republicans convention because it been such a mess and that is an under statement because the president refused to kind of admit the reality that joe biden and his campaign saw coming months ago which is why they had a long runway to plan what they planned up until what last month i think maybe more recently, there would be a live portion of his convention in jacksonville, florida and so that got them scrambling to come up with the rest of the program. we will see and hear more and we

know from our reporting that the president, not surprisingly given his reality tv background is very heavy hand in trying to produce this. >> yeah, i mean, amanda, how do you expect republicans to frame their convention, not just mathematically but what it will look like. president trump reportedly doesn't want a lot of taped pieces doing many, many hours -- it ain't easy. it's something to fall back on every now and then. >> i saw a lot of rallies by him and supporters that play up the footage of the theme of american carnage, fear and how donald trump is the hero that will come in and save us. i expect to see some footage like that, the stuff you see on fox news, cities burning, riots, things that get republican

voters really scared and i'm so curious to see how the politics of fear play because so many people are scared and there was a turning point in donald trump's reelection this spring and that is when the protests broke out in the wake of the murder of george floyd and people were scared by what was happening in the cities but they were even more frightened by donald trump's reaction to that. when he tear gassed peaceful protesters and marched with his money through lafayette park, that put the fear in the hearts of a lot of republicans. people who worked for him. you saw a drop off in support for trump there and i think he's going to keep hammering that theme because he can't get away from the politics of fear but i'm so curious to see how people who are ready to give donald trump one more chance to make the case react if that's the presentation. >> abby, it's not as if there is a lot of policy positions that the president which is dying to talk about. when he was asked twice now

about, you know, what his plans are for a second term in terms of policies and he really didn't have answers. there is no health care proposals. there is no health care plan, though he's been promising that for years. there is, you know, it's not as if there are going to be going deep into the weeds on policy. >> yeah, the health care plan is always two weeks away from something and it probably not coming. it's been that plus tax cuts. i remember the lead to 2018 he promised tax cuts as sort of a rhetorical device. he does the same now. it a symbol of what a lot of people close to the president who have come out and now oppose him kind of say about him. the theme is that he is someone who wants to win above all else and that's the rational that he's given virtually every time he's been asked about what he's really running on. and i don't know that that's sufficient at this point. the trouble for president trump

is that he had hoped to run on the economy. he can't really do that anymore and so it put them in a really tough spot where they are running against something. running against this idea of carnage in the streets, against this char acacter of joe biden a puppet for the left. the problem is he's the income be -- incumbent and has to make a case because joe biden is running against him. so it's difficult for the president as you've noted, he's not a policy wonk. i don't expect to hear much but as amanda pointed out, it going to be a lot on this theme of america is going down the drain but again, he's the one in charge of the america that we're living in right now. >> it's not as if he's running against somebody who is the president. he is the president and he's been the president for the last three years. the idea that his message is going to be america is going to hell in a hand basket and

carnage in the streets i've been overseeing and leading for the last three years. aman amanda, does that make sense? >> well, in the way that donald trump campaigns, yes. it not rooted in reality and all he has to do is make 51% of the public think that joe biden or the democrats or aoc is scarier than he is. so what i assume his people are doing right now they saw they could depict joe biden as an old grandpa eating ice cream in the basement every night that gets wheeled out to give a crappy speech because he killed it and did an amazing job. they are trying to figure out how to readjust their target. i expect they will come hard at kamala harris to knock her off her game and back down, double down on the squad and try to make the democratic party seem like the far left bernie sanders wing that was actually rejected in the primaries and see what kind of insight they can stir up over there and try to start a

fight that they can get into because that is how donald trump campaigns. >> yeah, dana, it's -- the oldest, you know, republican trope against democrats, their socialists i imagine also that we'll be hearing. those two are socialist and wolves in sheep's clothing, that they're to the progressive wing of the party and that's who is really going to be calling the shots as soon as they are in power. >> that's right. what american said is important and amanda knows because she's a communicator for the traditional republican party. for any incumbent president, what you try to do is say you may not like me but the guy trying to get in here is worse. that is the job of the incokucut to try to deflect from the role and the policies and everything that he has been doing for the past four years and make it

about the person who is coming in and that is absolutely what we're going to see. i don't expect him to layout a ten-point plan or maybe a five-point plan of what he would do in the second term. he's going to say they're on the radical left. they can't control their own cities. look at what is happening to democratic-run cities so on and so forth. it will be as much as joe biden and scare tactics, more of that than anything else. >> the race, already he's talking about suburban housewives, i know he uses that idea and his vision for suburban housewives and, you know, should be afraid because cory booker of all people is going to be running housing program to get low income housing to scare housewives. it's so clear what he's doing and i think we're going to hear more and more of that as this thing progresses. we got to -- sorry, abby. >> i will just note quickly that

today it was notable to me that president trump i've described the democratic convention as calling air mmerica racist. that's the only description he used to point out that's the image of america he thought democrats were putting forward. i thought that was remarkable. clearly, race is on his mind and i bet it will be part of the narrative that we see painted next week at the convention. >> yeah. playing out so suddenly. a quick programming note, 100 years ago the united states ratified the 19th amendment granting women the legal right to vote. tomorrow night join erin burnett as she talks with jessica al ba and many others. the 100-year battle for equality. up next, steve bannon free on bail after being arrested on fraud charges. ahead, his reaction. i'll talk with another former aid to the president about the ban he knew at the white house. feel the cool rush of claritin cool mint chewables.

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- [narrator] food delivery just got more rewarding, now that grubhub gives you rewards when you order. did you order tacos? again? boom, rewarded. (chewing) (dog barks) ordering dinner for the family? voila, rewarded, with a side of quiet. (baby mumbling) grubhub rewards you. get a free delivery perk when you order. - [group] grubhub. (upbeat music) the day after he was arrested on charges of federal fraud, steve bannon talked about a political hit job. he was the principle architect of the 2016 campaign and served as a political strategist before

he bannon said i'm in this for the long haul. i'm in in for the fight. his type was short anthony scaramucci lasted, i think, 11 days during that brief period that he had little love for bannon. he left shortly thereafter. thanks for being with us. you certainly have a history -- >> good to be here. >> you got a history with steve bannon. what do you make of these charges against him and the -- if true, what it means. >> well, i want to start out with obviously we have the presumption of innocence in our country so we have to go with that for right now but we should talk about his character. he's a thguy with his white nationalist agenda or what he wants to do is divide and conquer the country and all of this anti immigration, which i think is thank god is sort of

unfashionable, one of the reasons vice president biden is going to win the election, that's a toxic soup. one thing i'm very proud of, i got to the white house, whatever my relationship is now with president trump, it was very clear he wanteded to get steve bannon and reince priebus out of the white house. let go back three years ago, which in fact, they were. i made a mistake with a reporter, whenever it happened, i said something off color but i wanted sometimes to say those things but steve is just not a good guy so that doesn't necessarily mean he's guilty. i'm not saying he is. he's a very, very smart guy. the arrest has actually hurt the president because the president's only strategy now, anderson, to win the election and he's not going to win it but his only strategy is to gin up his base and get them into

increasing voter precipitation and try to suppress the vote on the other side. that's the only strategy left so steve's voice, even though him and president trump are on the outs, his voice is pretty important to that because he does have a following in that category. >> you said he's not a good guy. in what way? >> okay, well he, i don't think that that's the first time that he's taken advantage of people with money. he's loaded with hypocrisy. i guess he likes chinese people that are rich with yachts. it's constant with steve. he doesn't like going up against people with a laserness to their

personal new personalit personality. a lot of hypocrisy and double dealing and look you straight in the face and tell you something and pick up >> some nonsense about you -- try to get a negative story written about you. that's steve bannen. there's no team. that they're able to keep together for any length of time. >> you talked about those transactional relationships that president trump has. he hadn't been dealing with bannon at all. according to cnn, he had been telling people he and steve bannon had been communicating with each other in recent months. for those who have left his orbit. if he feels there's a need for them, certainly roger stone is

one of his examples, someone he's clearly in on going contact with. >>. >> i'm not in contact with either president trump or steve bannon. i would put my money on president trump. i don't think he's talked to him since 2018 and the michael wolfe book came out. also the devil's bargain which was written prior to michael wolfe's book, where steve was trying to make it like he was the maestro and president trump was his puppet. i think it's important that he appears more influential than he is. i think what happened yesterday, has put the fire out in the steve bannon fire, and i think it will put a dent on that whole white nationalist white sensical agenda, it's going to hurt president trump as he's trying to rally that base into

november. i'm thankful for that, because we have to sort of remove this nonsense from our government so that we don't completely threaten the institutions of our democracy. >> especially with the project, we build the wall, chris co vac the former secretary of kansas state, he was on the advisory board of this thing, donald trump jr. was out promoting this. the president said he didn't like it, doesn't know anything about it. but if it's true, it does just point to -- again, if it's true that they were siphoning some money off for themselves, it's just incredibly hypocritical. the idea that the guy who ran the president's -- helped run the president's campaign in the final months is -- would be taking -- skimming money from americans who they are aggressively trying to get to donate money, it would be the

height of hypocrisy and cynicism. >> yeah, but it would also fit a fact pattern of prior hypocritical things he's done. none of that would necessarily surprise me. i don't want to say he's guilty, because we have a judicial system and there's fairness in the law, let him have his day in court, you're asking me something different, i've been in business 32 years, less my 11 day fiasco in washington, i'm pretty good at reading people, pretty good at judging them. i have the fault of giving people the benefit of the doubt, steve is super smart, a great writer, he wrote a lot of those speeches that president trump gave in 2016, he's a clever guy, but he's a malevolent guy. that always catches up to you. it catches up to you in the relationships, in the manifestation of your public life. you're watching this unwinding. the country is better for that. we don't need this kind of

divisive nonsense in the country. we have to heal this country and unify this country and at some point we're going to have to rebuild the republican party. the party has been hijacked by trumpism and it's sort of funny to watch it, none of these people believe what they're saying, but they're incredibly malleable and incredibly intimidated by the president. we have a lot of things we have to do in the country. the first thing is, we have to send president trump home, wherever that is, mar-a-lago, trump tower, scotland, we have to make sure on january 21st, he's there so we can heal the country and restore the great institutions of our democracy. once we do that, whatever happens to steve bannon in court, it won't matter, he'll be in the ash heap of history alongside of president trump. >> appreciate talking to you, thank you. >> good to be here. >> a lot more coming up on 360. we'll dig into the senate testimony from the postmaster

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