more than 175,000 americans have now lost their lives to the coronavirus pandemic. we crossed that terrible milestone, just late today. at about the same time the university of washington's institute for health metrics and evaluation released, yet another, new forecast. this time, predicting a death toll of 310,000 people in this country, by december. the institute's director joins us, shortly, to talk about that. we begin, though, keeping 'em honest with the trump administration's defense against

allegations that a key institution for preserving the right to vote in a pandemic, the post office, is being systematically crippled, with the president's approval, by a major campaign donor of his, who happens to run it. by now, you've probably seen video like this of uprooted mailboxes and sorting machines being taken offline or, in some cases, also being taken apart. just last week, the postal service warned 46 states it can't guarantee that all mail-in ballots will arrive in time to be counted. and that's hard not to connect that potential effect, disenfranchising tens of millions of people, with the video above. those are just some of the things postmaster general louis dejoy has been overseeing in just his first months on the job. the changes have already slowed the delivery of prescription drugs, government disability payments, even live chicks to farmers. today, the postmaster general pledged the same would not happen to mail-in ballots. >> as we head into the election season, i want to ensure this

commit kwlee and ttee and the a public that the postal service is fully committed to deliver election mail on time. this is my number one priority between now and election day. >> that's from his opening statement and the words, certainly, sound reassuring. but for anyone worried about his commitment to what he now calls his sacred duty, he offered little reassurance. >> will you be bringing back any mail-sorting machines that have been removed, since you've become postmaster general? will any of those come back? >> there's no intention to do that. they're not needed, sir. >> so, you will not bring back any processors. >> they're not needed, sir. >> short time after he said that, i spoke with a postal workers union president in north carolina. so, are those needed? i assume removing them was -- the argument given was it was obsolete. they weren't necessary. >> oh, no, absolutely not. >> she said seven machines in her area were -- were removed. each, capable of handling

4.5 million pieces of mail a week. and as we reported, the postmaster was overseeing plans dating back to may, for removing the machines across the country. today, he committed to making no additional changes until after the election. yet, as we reported last week, the sorting machine removals were scheduled to be completed by late last month. the damage may already be done. as for other policy changes, cnn recently obtained internal postal service documents showing that plans were in the porks wor treating election mail differently this year. they've, since, been reversed which dejoy did mention in his testimony, while ignoring the fact that they were very much operational, until just a few weeks ago. he also wouldn't agree to disclose the basis for some of the key decisions he's made. >> we need transparency in the changes you've been making, and in everything that you've discussed here today. will you commit to providing this committee with any and all transcripts or minutes of all

closed, nonpublic, board of governor meetings from this year, by this sunday? can you commit to that, sir? >> no. ma'am, the policy changes that i -- >> yes or no, sir? >> the policy changes that i -- were not the ones that you identified in your -- >> so you didn't do any analysis to see how seniors would be impacted. okay. let's move on. you know, our deployed service members routinely cast their ballots by mail. >> the analysis we did showed we would improve to every constituent. >> i would like to see the analysis to our offices by this sunday. can you commit to that, sir? >> no, ma'am. >> can you commit to transparency, sir? that's all i'm asking. >> very transparent. >> that is senator jackie rosen of nevada who joins us in our next hour. here is oher republican colleage from utah. >> mr. dejoy, assuming as i do

that you've been truthful in your testimony today, i can imagine how frustrating it is to be accused of political motives in your management responsibility. at the same time, of course, you can certainly understand that there have been pretty good reasons that you or your colleagues are purposely acting to suppress voting or that you're going to purposely prevent ballots from being counted. >> those pretty good reasons include policy changes, some void, some reversed, and some partially carried out. but a lot less complicated than sorting capacity, postal worker overtime, or how ballots are prioritized. keeping them honest, the simple fact that dejoy is a mega donor to a president that does not like people voting by mail. doesn't want to give the post office money to help make it possible. that's not us saying it. it is the president, himself. >> they want three and a half billion dollars for something

that will turn out to be fraudulent. that's election money, basically. now, they need that money in order to have the post office work so it can take all of these millions and millions of ballots. now, in the meantime, they aren't getting there. by the way, those are just two items. but if they don't get those two items, that means you can't have universal mail-in voting because they're not equipped to have it. >> all this now, cnn white house correspondent, jim acosta. jim, what is the take on the postmaster general? >> we can tell you this evening, the white house issued a veto threat. house democrats are going to try to pass and are likely to pass this bill tomorrow that would provide $25 billion to the u.s. postal service. the white house says the president would veto that legislation. in a statement they put out to reporters, the white house essentially accused democrats of overreacting to what they described as sensationalized media reports about these problems with the postal service. the other thing that we can report to you, anderson, is that just this evening, we were provided with talking points

that are being put out by the republican national committee and the trump campaign to their surrogates. essentially, accusing democrats of latching on to what they are calling a, quote, conspiracy theory about the postal service and the upcoming election. for his part, the president denied that he is trying to steal the election. earlier today, he used those words in a speech to conservative activists. but, anderson, to hear the president's team talk about democrats latching on to conspiracy theories is pretty much when the president has been spreading the conspiracy theory that there is going to be widespread voter fraud on election day because of mail-in balloting when he just hasn't offered any proof that would happen. >> and what about the president -- the vow by the president to send law enforcement to polling places? >> yeah. we've been trying to ask white house officials about this all day long. the only person that would offer up any kind of a comment was the white house counselor, kellyanne conway, who denied that this is, at all, voter intimidation. but when you hear the president talking about, you know, sending out police officers and

sheriff's deputies and so on to polling polices, th polling places, that obviously is going to be intimidating to some voters. the other thing that needs to be pointed out, anderson, in all of this is that the president, when he initially made those comments, was talking to fox in the middle of the democratic national convention. he's been triggered, all week long, by what was going on at the dnc. i've talked to a republican operative, close to the trump campaign, earlier today. who essentially said that joe biden's speech last night, you know, blew out of the water, the trump campaign line that joe biden is quote/unquote sleepy joe. and so, it's -- it's -- it's no surprise that the president would be throwing out that kind of red meat talking about sendi sending police officers and sheriff's deputies to polling places. but, at this point, the white house is not denying that the president may do just that. they're just saying it's not voter intimidation, even though it sounds like it, anderson. >> jim acosta. thanks very much. colorado secretary of state, jenna griswold is weighing in.

quoting now from her statement. sending law enforcement to polling locations is designed for voter intimidation, rather than election security. indistinguishable from tactics used against black voters in the jim crow south. when the president says he's going to send law enforcement officials to polling locations, why do you say that that's voter intimidation? >> well, that's exactly what happened during the jim crow south. local law enforcement were used to intimidate black voters and to try to scare them out of voting. we, also, saw that in the '80s. that's one of the things that the rnc was sued for. using, specifically, law enforcement, off duty, to try to intimidate black and latino voters. and i will tell you, anderson, this is a scary segment for our national history to be back here. and i'll, also, tell you that i will not allow the president to use law enforcement to intimidate voters here, in colorado. >> some legal experts have said that the president has no

authority to deploy local law enforcement officials to monitor elections. although, apparently, his campaign could hire off-duty police to work the polls, in some capacity. does that sound right to you? >> that's right. you know, the president does not have authority over sheriffs. and just to be perfectly clear, any type of voter intimidation is illegal. both, under state law and federal law. whether it's doj observers to federal -- other federal officials. if they are trying to intimidate voters, we will stop them. but i think this is part of a bigger pattern, anderson. not only does the president not like vote by mail. the president does not want americans to vote. he's forcing americans to risk their very lives to be pushed into crowded polling centers. and then, he is saying that if you do go vote in person and wait in those long lines that we see, in many states, not only will you be, potentially, intimidated. you'll, also, be in crowded places, during a pandemic. so, overall, it's just a shame

that the president is taking our nation in the wrong direction. and luckily, we have great states, like colorado, that can show the nation how we can vote during a pandemic, in respect of people's civil rights. >> i mean, i don't quite understand. if the president is -- is saying he wants -- he will send sheriffs and law enforcement to polling places on election day. i'm assuming, is this to allegedly prevent the phantom-voter fraud? which he has, continually, been saying exists and is widespread in this country, even though there is -- i mean, by every study that's been done, there's just no evidence of widespread voter fraud. >> well, he's saying it's for election security. so whatever that means. you know, there is a law that troops can be deployed if there centers. but i just think that's very unlikely, and this is just one more way that the president is really trying to undermine confidence in our elections.

you know, colorado. we vote by mail. we send a ballot to every voter. we, also, have in-person, early voting, same-day voter registration, polling locations across the state. hundreds of drop boxes. and things go really well. we have clean elections. we have accessible elections. and we're the gold standard of the nation. so i would just tell president trump, if he tries anything in colorado, i'm not going to let him. we're going to have a great election in november. >> dejoy said the postal service is fully capable and committed to delivering election mail on time. are you satisfied with that? i mean, do you believe that? because letters had gone out across the country to states saying that there might be delays. >> well, anderson, i want to share with you, i grew up in a small town up in the mountains of rural colorado. literally, in a cabin with an

outhouse outside. so i just know how much rural america values the post office. we use it for everything. whether it's packages to medicine, the post office needs to work. you know, i thought it was good that the postmaster general said that he would stop trying to attack the post office. but i tend to agree with senator romney. that we need assurances, in writing, to make sure that we can have confidence in november and the post office. you know, in colorado, our colorado election model has features that will enable us to withstand a slowdown. so we send out ballots three weeks before election day. we actually ask coloradans to stop returning them eight days before election day. and there's hundreds of drop boxes across the state. >> secretary griswold, i appreciate your time. thanks very much. >> thank you. >> up next, new covid modeling of more than 300,000 dead by december and how kids going back to class factor in. and how the striking, grim projections could be reversed.

later, anthony scaramucci joins us to his reaction that bannon's now facing federal felony charges.

♪ ["good job" by alicia keys] ♪ you're the engine that makes all things go ♪ ♪ and you're always in disguise, my hero ♪

♪ i see your light in the dark ♪ ♪ smile in my face when we all know it's hard ♪ ♪ you're doing a good job a good job ♪ ♪ you're doing a good job ♪ don't get too down ♪ the world needs you now ♪ know that you matter two pieces of breaking news could not be less welcome or more sad. we have now passed 175,000 deaths in this country. now, forecasting 310,000 fatalities by early december. up 15,000 from the last projection.

third breaking item, not surprising. public health officials in nebraska and minnesota and south dakota reporting cases connected to last week's massive sturgis motorcycle rally. joining us, now, is ihme director, dr. chris murray, and chief medical correspondent, dr. sanjay gupta. dr. murray, i mean, just a staggering number. the projection that you're now having that it's a rise by 15,000 deaths. that's just in the last two weeks. what -- what accounts for that? >> well, i think what is accounting for that, anderson, is that, in some states -- california's a good example -- cases peaked, they've come down. but deaths haven't. they've remained pretty steady. we are seeing upswings in places like kentucky, minnesota,

indiana. there's more happening around covid, than we sort of expected for this time of the year. and that's playing out into these forecasts, as we go into the fall, when we expect transmission to go up for -- for a variety of reasons. >> dr. murray. you know, there's 133 days left in the year. and that's -- so you're basically saying a thousand people dying a day, on average, for the rest of the year. so plateauing, sort of where we are now sounds like. but also, when i read the report, it also makes this assumption that, in states that have death rates that rise above 8 per million people, that those states will impose mandates. mitigation mandates, again. that's sort of where florida is, right now. we're just looking at this data earlier. i mean, do you think that's really going to happen? are -- are states like florida going to impose these -- these mandates again, do you think? and if they don't, does that mean your models are going to go even higher? >> well, that's part of the reason that the numbers are up

from our last release. because we had thought that some of these states, like florida, would have put mandates back in place even earlier in the month, and they have not. the reason we, still, base our, you know, best forecast on that idea is when we look across the u.s., across the world, that's about the threshold where people have put the mandates back in place. now, you know, it really depends what our leaders do. and clearly, things can be worse. we have a worse scenario in what we release and that's many, many more deaths. and in fact, by the time december rolls around, if we don't do anything, at all, the daily death toll in the u.s. would be much higher than the sort of 2,000 deaths a day we would expect by december. it could be as high as 6,000 deaths a day. so it really depends what we do, both as individuals and what governments do. >> so you're saying if -- if we don't do anything, in addition

to what's already being done, there could be 6,000 deaths a day? or is that -- can you explain that? >> sure. that's assuming that -- that not only we do nothing but that governments decide to sort of go for relaxing the mandates, progressively, between now and december. it's sort of a worst-case scenario. it's not what we think will happen, which is why our forecast is the 310,000. but it just gives you an idea of how bad things can get as we roll into the fall. and unfortunately, in some parts of the world, not yet in the u.s., we are seeing real resistance to -- to sort of reacting when things start to get bad. >> well, i mean, you -- you see mask use is at 55%, now. but that getting it up to 95% would save 69,000 lives by december 1st. how would we get to 95%? i mean, getting the population in the united states to 95%. i mean, rationally, you think,

well, of course, 95% of the people. if they could save 69,000 lives. of course, people would just put on a mask and it's not that big a deal. but it, clearly, for a lot of people, it is. >> it -- it -- it is. it's not really understandable but how do we get there is the more important point. and i think there's two parts, anderson. one is we need state governors to take action, like arkansas has just done. where they are putting in place mask mandates. we need those mandates to have some teeth so there's -- you know, there's a fine if you are caught without a mask. we know that -- that'll help a lot. we, also, need our, you know, political leaders, our business leaders, our community leaders, to really take up the charge. and i think the combination of those two could make us look like most of latin america, where mask use is really high. most of southeast asia, where mask use is really high. so it's possible. and it just will take a concerted effort. but the impact is extraordinary.

it's, really, quite extraordinary what it could achieve. >> yeah. 69,000 lives. that's -- that's, you know, that's -- sanjay, just people traveling. what more are you learning about connections to the sturgis rally in south dakota? >> well, you know, keep in mind, this rally just ended five days ago. it was a ten-day rally in south dakota. and they -- they tracked the number of vehicles that came in. it was over 400,000 vehicles that came in. so a lot of people were there. what we're hearing is that there's already been at least 26 people who have been confirmed to have been infected in three different states, including south dakota, including nebraska and minnesota. and again, it's just five days since the rally ended. you well know it can take a long time to get tested, to get test results back. so they expect these numbers to go up. what we're hearing, you know, is it was obviously a lot of people out there, clustered together. most of the event was outside. but what happens at these events is that there's also lots of indoor events around that, as well.

so they start to do contact tracing. they find people who are infected and who likely spread this. so this is a concern, anderson. i mean, you can have significant, what are called, superspreading events at things like this. people come from all over the country. they go back to their communities. and that causes a problem. it's tough to contact trace when you have this much viral spread in the country but that's what they're trying to do after, you know, 400,000 people show up in one place. >> it's also got to be tough to contact trace when you are talking to folks who, a, are intentionally not wearing masks. and also, are kind of brushing by each other in outdoor spaces and are interacting with a lot of people, you know, milling around. so that's got to be tough. sanjay, thank you. dr. murray, thank you, as always. really appreciate it. as dr. murray mentioned, return to classrooms and colleges, will be a key factor driving the numbers. want to talk with arnie duncan. secretary duncan, i'm wondering

what you think of the decision to declare teachers essential workers. legally and technically, though, is it a move based on politics to try to force schools to reopen? >> well, frankly, it means nothing. as you know, president trump has lost all credibility on this issue of fighting the virus a long, long time ago. he's made himself irrelevant. you know, my real concern is that, yes, teachers are absolutely essential workers. i'm really worried they are going to be looking for essential services, themselves, soon. and what people aren't talking about is the real budget hit that so many k to 12 districts across the country are going to face this school year. and when teachers and custodians and lunchroom workers are always, by far, the biggest line item in any school's budget. if those budget hits happen, school districts are going to lay people off, unfortunately, if the federal government doesn't step up. and what the white house has to do, what it should have done months ago, is make a $200 billion investment in our schools across the country so

that they could open up, safely. and that, you know, staff would have the ppe they need. additional bus drivers they need. whatever it might be. there's been no investment. so declarations of whatever coming from the white house are absolutely meaningless. >> well, vice president pence said, this morning, on cnn that teachers being declared essential means they'll be prioritized for ppe and support. -- said tcould be used, in his words, to threaten and bully teachers into classrooms. >> what the white house needs to do is invest in education. when local property taxes are going down, sales taxes are going down, the only backstop there, anderson, is the federal government. in 2009, we had such a tough economy as we came in with -- with president obama. we put $100 billion behind k to 12 education. there's obviously a much, much harder time. this white house has done almost nothing to ensure that children have a chance to go to a

physical school, and that the adults who care so much about them are safe. >> it seems like the administration is all for local school districts making their own decisions, in normal times. and then, in a time like this, the federal government, you know, mandating that the schools be open. or that they have essential worker designation. >> they can't mandate anything. these are just words. it's him just another attempt to bully. we have seen this in so many different aspects of how he operates. they have no ability to mandate anything. and again, people see through it and it just adds more chaos to a system that's already struggling. repeating myself, they need to invest in public education now to give our children a chance to go back to physical school, safely. >> so when -- you talk about budgets being cut. that's because of -- of the tax basis shrinking. that's how schools are funded. >> exactly. the vast majority, usually 90% of funding for local education, comes at the -- at the city, the

local, and the state level. 10% comes at a federal level. when those local budgets get crushed, as we know that's happening now, the only backstop is the federal government. again, that's what we did in 2009. the federal government has to step up, now, and do that. this is another point, smaller point, but critically important. all summer, while schools were physically closed and at the end of the school year, march, april, and may. school districts across the contra country fed tens of millions of meals to children and their families. they're safety nets. there were unbelievable food distribution centers. and we had weekly calls with schools every single week since march. we need usda right now, secretary perdue, to provide waivers across the country so they can continue to feed kids. without those waivers, kids who have been hungry, many more families losing jobs. those families, food secure --

food insecure in a way they haven't been. usda just has to step up and give school districts the flexibility to take care of their kids and families now. >> secretary duncan, appreciate your time. thank you. >> thank you so much. >> got breaking news. joe biden and kamala harris give their first joint interview. straight ahead, what they had to say and what we know about the landscape of the gop convention that begins on monday.

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the big events are back and xfinity is your home for the return of live sports. there's more breaking news tonight. in their first joint interview with abc news, former vice president joe biden and vice presidential candidate kamala harris. biden accused the trump

administration of being ridden with, quote, incompetence. harris was asked to respond to a series of insults hurled her way by president trump. >> president trump has referred to you as nasty, a sort of mad woman, a disaster, the meanest, most horrible, most disrespectful of anybody in the u.s. senate. how do you define what you hear from the president? >> listen. i really -- i -- i think that there is so much about what comes out of donald trump's mouth that is designed to distract the american people from what he is doing, every day, that is about neglect, negligence, and harm to the american people. >> and incompetence. >> absolutely. absolutely. >> the idea that he would say something like that. no president, no president, has ever said anything like that. no president has ever used those words. no president has said people coming out of fields with torches and spewing anti-semitic

bile and they say they're good people on both sides. no president of the united states has ever said anything like that, ever. >> meantime, the republican national convention gets underway on monday. with very little, so far, being made public about the shape of the presentations. we do know the delegates will vote to renominate trump on the convention's first day. we also know vice president pence, first lady melania trump, and former u.n. ambassador nikki haley will be among the speakers. beyond that, not so much. cnn correspondent, dana bash, and political correspondent abby phillip. dana, democrats, arguably, you know, there was obviously some awkward moments and stuff. but overall, itse was an effecte convention, i think you could say. high-profile speakers. pretty cohesive themes. are you surprised we don't know more about what the rnc will entail? >> let me say, so effective that i got a text from a top democratic official saying they

don't know that they'll ever go back to the way it traditionally has been done because they packed so much in, given this kind of format. it's not a surprise that we don't know that much about the republicans' convention because it's been such a mess. and that is an understatement because the president refused to kind of admit the reality that joe biden and his campaign saw coming, months ago, which is why they had a very long runway to plan what they planned. up until, what, last month, i think maybe even more recently, the president was still insisting that there would be a live portion of his convention in jacksonville, florida. and so, that got scrapped. and now, they're kind of scrambling to come up with the rest of the program. so we will see and hear more and we know, from our reporting, that the president, not surprisingly, given his reality tv background, is -- has a very heavy hand in trying to produce

this. >> yeah. i mean, amanda, how do you expect republicans to frame their convention? not just thematically, but also in terms of what it will look like? president trump, reportedly, doesn't want a lot of taped pieces. you know, doing many, many hours of live television. it ain't easy. and, you know, some taped pieces are a nice thing to fall back on, every now and then, at the very least. >> yeah. i've watched a lot of his rallies by himself and his supporters, over the spring and summer. and they do like big, thematic montages, which really play up the footage of the theme of american carnage. fear and how donald trump is the hero that will come in and save us. so i would expect to see some footage like that. the kind of stuff you see on fox news. cities burning. riots. things that get republican voters really scared. and i am so curious to see how the politics of fear plays in this environment because so many people are scared. and there was a turning point in donald trump's re-election this

spring. and, that is, when the protests broke out in the wake of the murder of george floyd. and people were scared by what was happening in the cities. but they were even more frightened by donald trump's reaction to that. when he tear gassed peaceful protestors and marched with his men through lafayette park, that put the fear in the hearts of a lot of republicans. people who worked for him. and so, you saw a dropoff in support for trump there. and i think he is going to keep hammering that theme because he can't get away from the politics of fear. but i am so curious to see how people who are ready to give donald trump one more chance to make the case react if that's the presentation. >> and, abby, i mean, it's not as if there's a lot of policy positions that the president is just dying to talk about. i mean, when he was asked -- he's been asked twice now about what his plans are for a second term, in terms of policies. and he -- he really didn't have answers. there's no healthcare proposals. there's no healthcare plan.

though, he's been, you know, promising that for -- for years. there's -- you know, it's not as if they're going to be going deep into the weeds on policy. >> yeah. the healthcare plan is always two weeks away from something. and it's probably not coming. it's been that, plus tax cuts. i remember the lead-up to 2018, he promised tax cuts just as a sort of rhetorical device. he does the same thing now. it's emblematic of what a lot of people close to the president, who have come out and now oppose him, kind of say about him. the theme is that he is someone who wants to win, above all else. and that's the rationale that he's given, virtually every time he's been asked about what he's really running on. and i don't know that that's sufficient, at this point. the trouble for president trump is he had hoped to run on the economy. he can't really do that anymore. and so, it's put them in a really tough spot, where they are now running against something. they're running against this

idea of carnage in the streets. against this caricature of joe biden as a puppet of the left. and the problem with all of that is that he is the incumbent. and he is the guy that has to make a case for four more years because joe biden's the one running against him. so it's -- it's difficult for the president. and as you noted, anderson, he's not a policy, so i don't expect to hear much of that. but as amanda pointed out, it's going to be a lot of this theme of america's going down the drain. but, again, he is the one in charge of the america we're living in right now. >> yeah. it's not as if he is running against somebody who's the president. he is the president and has been the president for the last three years. the idea that his message is going to be america's gone to hell in a hand basket. there's carnage in the streets that i have been overseeing and lae leading in the last three years.

does that make sense? >> all he has to do is make 51% of the public think that joe biden or the democrats or aoc is scarier than he is. and so, what i assume his people are doing, right now. they saw that they could depict joe biden as an old grandpa eating ice cream in the basement every night, who got wheeled out to give one crappy speech because he killed it. he did an amazing job. and so, they are figuring out to try and readjust their target. i would expect they come hard at kamala harris just to see if they can knock her off her game. they're going to double down on the squad, on aoc, and try to make the democratic party seem like the far-left, bernie sanders wing that was actually rejected in the primaries. and see what kind of infighting they can stir up over there and try to just start a fight that they can get into because that is how donald trump campaigns. >> yeah. i mean, dana, it's -- the -- the oldest, you know, republican trope against democrats, they're

socialists. i imagine, also, that we'll be hearing that these two are socialists. they're -- you know, they're wolves in sheep's clothing. and that's who is really going to be calling the shots as soon as they're in power. >> that's exactly right. you know, what amanda said is so important and amanda knows because she is a communicator for the -- what used to be the more traditional republican party. but if -- for any incumbent president, democrat or republican, what you try to do is say you may not like me. but the guy that is trying to get in here is worse. and that is the job of the incumbent. tr to try to deflect from the role and the policies and everything that -- that he has been doing, for the past four years. and make it about the person who is coming in. and that is absolutely what we are going to see. i don't expect him to lay out a ten-point plan or maybe even a five-point plan of what he would do in a second term.

he is going to say they're in the radical left. they can't -- they can't control their own cities. look at what's happening to democratic-run cities. so on and so forth. it is going to be as much about joe biden and scare tactics, as -- more of that, than anything else. >> also, abby, race. i mean, already, he is talking about suburban how usewives. i mean, i don't know who uses, you know, that idea and his vision for suburban housewives. and, you know, should be afraid because cory booker, of all people, is going to be running a housing program to get low-income housing to, you know, scare housewives. i mean, it's -- it's so clear what he's doing. and i think we're going to just hear more and more of that, as this thing progresses. sorry, abby. >> i mean, i will just note, quickly, that today it was notable to me that president trump described the democratic convention as calling america racist. that was one of the only

descriptors he used really to point out. i thought that was remarkable because, clearly, race is on his mind and i bet it's going to be part of the narrative that we see painted next week at the convention. >> probably not so subtly. thank you, everyone. quick programming note. this week, 100 years ago, the united states ratified the 19th amendment granting women the legal right to vote. tomorrow night, join cnn's erin burnett as she talks with jessica alba, and many others about gender equality in america. new cnn special report. women represented, the 100 year battle for equality. debuts at 10:00 p.m. eastern. up next, steve bannon, high-profile adviser, president trump, free on bail tonight after being arrested on fraud charges. ahead, his reaction. i'll talk to anthony scaramucci about the man he knew at the white house.

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day after he was arrested on federal charges of fraud linked to a private fundraising effort to pay for a border wall, steve bannon talks about what he called a political hit job. bannon was architect of president trump's 2016 campaign. later, served as white house strategist before he was fired. bannon said he was innocent and also said, quote, i am in this for the long haul. i'm in this for the fight. joining me now, another presidential aide. although, by his own admission, his time was short. anthony scaramucci lasted, i think, 11 days.

during that brief period, he told the new yorker in an interview, he had little love for bannon. scaramucci left shortly thereafter. it's good to see you, anthony. thanks for being with us. so you certainly -- >> it's good to be here. >> -- you've got a history with steve bannon. i'm just wondering, what you make, first of all, of these charges against him. and if true, what it means? >> well, i want to start out with obviously we have the presumption of innocence in our country. and so, we have to go with that, for right now. but just want to talk about his character. he is a nefarious guy. and there's a ma lilevolence to him. his white nationalist agenda, divide the country, and all this anti-immigration, which i think thank god has become unfashionable. one of the reasons why vice president biden is going to win the election. that soup, if you will, is a very bad, toxic soup. and so, one of the things i'm

very proud of. you know, when i got to the white house, whatever my relationship is now with president trump, it was very clear that he wanted to get steve bannon out of the white house. he thought they were the two biggest leakers inside the white house. and let's go back three years ago, which, in fact, i made a mistake with a reporter, whenever it happened, i said something off color but i am wont sometimes to say those things but steve is just not a good guy so that doesn't necessarily mean he's guilty. i'm not saying he is. he's a very, very smart guy. the arrest has actually hurt the president because the president's only strategy now, anderson, to win the election and he's not going to win it but his only strategy is to gin up his base and get them into a fervor to increase their voter participation and obviously try to suppress the vote on the other side. that's the only strategy left so

steve's voice, even though him and president trump are on the outs, his voice is pretty important to that because he does have a following in that category. >> you said he's not a good guy. in what way? >> okay, well he, i don't think that that's the first time that he's taken advantage of people with their money. i think he has cycled through a series of relationships related to money. he's loaded with hypocrisy. one minute railing on the chinese but i guess he likes chinese people that are rich with yachts. constant intellectual hypocrisy with steve. he doesn't like going up against people with a intellectual razorness to their personality. he can't really debate them. facts brought up with vacuousness. a lot of hypocrisy and double dealing and look you straight in the face and tell you something and pick up the phone and

whisper to a reporter nonsense to get a negative story written about you. that's steve bannon. there's no team he's been able to keep together for any length of time because of that nonsense. steve bannon has been telling people he's talking to the president in recent months. the president, for those who have left his orbit. if he feels there's a need for them, certainly roger stone is one of his examples, someone he's clearly in on going contact with. >> i'm not in contact with either president trump or steve bannon. i would put my money on president trump on that one, i don't think he's talked to him

since he called him sloppy steve bannon in january and the michael wolff book came out. he was all over that book. and also "the devil's bargain" which was written prior to michael wolff's book, where steve was trying to make it like he was the maestro and president trump was his puppet. i think it's important that he appears more influential than he is. i think what happened yesterday, has put the fire out in the steve bannon fire, and i think it will put a dent on that whole white nationalist nonsensical agenda, it's going to hurt president trump as he's trying to rally that base into november. i'm thankful for that, because we have to sort of remove this nonsense from our government so that we don't completely threaten the institutions of our democracy. >> essentially this project, we

build the wall, chris kovac, the former secretary of kansas state, he was on the advisory board of this thing, donald trump jr. was out promoting this. the president said he didn't like it, doesn't know anything about it. but if it's true, it does just point to -- again, if it's true that they were siphoning some money off for themselves, it's just incredibly hypocritical. the idea that the guy who ran the president's -- helped run the president's campaign in the final months with kellyanne conway would be taking -- skimming money from americans who they are aggressively trying to get to donate money, it would be the height of hypocrisy and cynicism. >> yeah, but it would also fit a fact pattern of prior hypocritical things he's done. none of that would necessarily surprise me. i don't want to say he's guilty, because we have a judicial system and there's fairness in the law, let him have his day in

court. but you're asking me something different, i've been in business 32 years, less my 11 day fiasco in washington, i'm pretty good at reading people, pretty good at judging them. i have the fault of giving people the benefit of the doubt, but steve is the type of guy, super smart, a great writer, he wrote a lot of those speeches that president trump gave in 2016, he's a clever guy, but he's a malevolent guy. that always catches up to you. it catches up to you in the relationships, in the manifestation of your public life. you're watching this unwinding. of steve bannon right now, and i'll tell you right now, anderson, the country is better for that. we don't need this kind of divisive nonsense in the country. we have to heal this country and unify this country and at some point we're going to have to rebuild the republican party. the party has been hijacked by trumpism and it's sort of funny to watch it, none of these people believe what they're saying, but they're incredibly

malleable and incredibly intimidated by the president. we have a lot of things we have to do in the country. the first thing is, we have to send president trump home, wherever that is, mar-a-lago, trump tower, scotland, we have to make sure on january 21st, he's there so we can heal the country and restore the great institutions of our democracy. once we do that, whatever happens to steve bannon in court, it won't matter, he'll be in the ash heap of history alongside of president trump. >> anthony scaramucci, appreciate talking to you, thank you. >> good to be here. >> a lot more coming up on "360". we'll dig into the senate testimony from the postmaster general.