or surgery with a general anesthes anesthesia, the 25th amendment would be evoked. >> not for a are yroutine matte? >> never. >> hey, that visit continues. thanks for joining us. "ac 360" starts now. the president of the united states traveled to kenosha, wisconsin today where a white police officer shot a black man jacob blake seven times in the back yet listening to the remarks there, you would barely know mr. blake even existed. john berman in for anderson. it was a full hour and 15 minutes into his visit before he spoke of the incident at all only when asked about it. this is what the president said about mr. blake's mother. >> i guess she's a very fine woman. i was going to speak to her, but then i heard there were a lot of lawyers on the phone. i said i have enough lawyers in my life. >> enough lawyers in his life. there is michael cohen who helped him arrange the pay off to stormy daniels and rudy

giuliani who helped him get impeached but that is different by not being bothered by a mother whose son is paralyzed and the shooting is followed by nights of demonstrations in the killing of two protesters allegedly by a 17-year-old would be vigilante. the only other time the president referred to mr. blake at all was at a press conference a little more than an hour later again only when asked. >> what would you say to the blake family? i know you didn't get a chance to talk to them but what would you say with the pain they are going through and questions they have about what happened? >> well, i feel terribly for anybody that goes through that, that's why i was honored to meet the pastors. i feel terribly for anybody that goes through that. as you know, it's under investigation. it's a big thing happening now. it's under local investigation. >> so never once neater there nor during the rest of the visit did the president you are thor jacob blake's name, not once. i'm not sure he's ever said blake's name.

i'm not sure he knows it. what does that tell you about his views on the pain being felt by so many african americans and when asked about the larger issue of race and policing, specifically the question of system maic racism, here is how responded. >> i think that police do an incredible job and i think you do have bad apples. you agree every once in awhile you see something and you do have the other situation, too, where they are under tremendous pressure and they don't handle it well. they call it choking. it happens. >> choking. it's an interesting choice of words. horrifying when he compares it to missing a golf putt as he also did and point of fact choking is what was inflicted on eric garner selling loose cigarettes and george floyd by a police officer's knee on his neck. it's the reason you hear protester chanting i can't breathe. but safe to say that's not exactly front of mind for the president. what is highlighting and

magnifying the violence in kenosha and portland, oregon and inventing outrageous conspiracy theories about his opponent. >> take a look at what is going on and biden, well, biden is -- i don't even like to mention biden because he's not controlling anything. >> who do you think is pulling biden's strings? is it former obama people? >> you've never heard of, people in the dark shadows. people that -- >> what does that mean? that sounds like conspiracy theory. dark shadows. what is that? >> the president last night on fox news and that sound you hear is a cable news talking head who herself normally traffics in right wing conspiracy theories trying to talk the leader of the free world off the ledge that even she can see he's out on but she can't. >> people that you haven't heard of, they are people that are on the streets. they're people that are controlling the streets. we had somebody get on a plane from a certain city this weekend, and in the plane it was almost completely loaded with thugs wearing these dark uniforms, black uniforms with

gear and this and that. they're on a plane. >> where was this? >> i'll tell you sometime but it's under investigation right now. but they came from a certain city and this person was coming to the republican national convention. and there were like seven people on the plane like this person and then a lot of people were on the plane to do big damage. they were coming -- >> planning for washington? >> yeah, this is all happening. >> but the money is coming from somewhere. >> money is coming from some very stupid rich people that have no idea that if their thing ever succeeded, which it won't, they will be thrown to the wolves like you've never seen before. >> so he told the story again today this time the flight wasn't going to washington, it was in the president's words from washington to wherever and as you might imagine, he offered no evidence to back it up because it almost goes without saying that's not the point. the point is to gin up as much fear as possible. this is merely the conspirat conspiratorial cherry on top.

>> in recent days, our nation has been gripped by professional anarchists, violent mobs, arsonists, looters, criminals, rioters, antifa and others. angry mobs are trying to tear down statutes of our founders to face our most sacred memorials and unleash a wave of violence, crime in our cities. you had radical an anarchists. you had horrible people. you had protesters. there is violence and danger in the streets of many democrat-run cities throughout america. think of the ruins in minneapolis. the violent anarchy of portland. the bloodstained sidewalks of chicago and imagine the mayhem coming to your town and every single town in america. >> so franklin roosevelt's

famous words the only thing we have to fear is fear itself the president might answer the only thing we have to fear is everything and you'll be forgiven if all this dark ominous language sounds familiar. remember the caravcaravan? >> they got a lot of rough people in those caravans. they are not angles. very tough. dr criminals in some cases. these are tough people. the united states military. because you look at what is going on. you had very tough criminal elements within the caravan. these are hardened individuals coming in. wouldn't be surprised, yeah, i wouldn't be surprised. i don't know who. but i wouldn't be surprised. a lot of people say yes. >> there is that shadowy presence the president doesn't

expose because people say so or some guy told me and no, that wasn't the first time, either. here he is in 2011 talking about allegations, bogus allegations that president obama was not born here. >> i have people that actually have been studying and it they cannot believe what they're finding. >> you have people down there searching in hie. >> absolutely and they cannot believe what they're finding. >> that was a lie. nobody found anything because he didn't send any people but it's instructive to hear it again because the closer you look, the clearer you see he's recycling the same material over and over you insert a new name, new bogeyman. he was doing this as a private citizen and candidate and as president and doing it again now, only this time he's doing it on top of a power keg with the biggest boxes of matches he's ever had. joining us now is jacob blake's uncle, justin blake. mr. blake, i appreciate you

being with us. thank you for your time. first of all, can you tell us how jacob is doing this evening? >> thank you for having us on your program tonight. jacob is doing better. he's slowly but surely able to talk a little better, able to stay up a little longer, hold the hand of his father, our brother jake, big jake and talk to his mother julie and communicate with her. he told her the other night she was looking beautiful and we know little jake was doing better. the weight is lifted off shoulders, his life isn't any further in danger so that she looked good and we knew our nephew had to be doing better because of the way she looked at the hotel. >> that's good news. how much is he aware of everything going on in kenosha? >> not very much. he's sort of stuck at the spot where he got shot. he asks his father, our brother big jake the other night, why did they shoot me so many times? so he's still sort of stuck in

that. speaking of communicating more but sort of haven't moved past that little bump in the road thus far. >> so the president was in kenosha today as you well know. you had -- you heard i'm sure some of what he had to say. how sat 'tis ti sat sat 'tisfie with his message? >> not satfied at all. he's a lying president, racial things he said invoked and empowered police officers all over the country to reign down hate upon african americans like our little brother, our little nephew, i'm sorry. at this point we're taking the gloves off but standing strong. we're asking people to be peaceful but put the facts on the table. it would take stevie wonder to realize policing was not done on behalf of kenosha's people, he went far outside police duty shooting our nephew seven times

in the back in front of his children three feet away with a gun with three children in the car. so we need to be looking at our ethics, our morals and asking ourself is this acceptable for anybody? especially a person that's a des descendent of the people that built this country and made it the richest country of the day. we deserve better in 2020. >> the president spoke about his support for police? he talked about the violence there. what he did not do is mention jacob's name at all. i don't think i've ever heard him say jacob's name. what does that matter to you? >> it doesn't because that would be off script and i would give him the power that we refuse to give anybody. we're -- >> justin, can you still hear me? >> an indictment and we need it soon. it doesn't take this long to look at the viewing of the video that we have that the world has seen to say that was far beyond

any policing that should be done on behalf of any citizen anywhere. we're going to correct it in 2020. >> so as i did say the president never mentioned jacob blake's name. he did when asked specific questions say about your family he feels terribly for anybody that is going through this. is that enough for you? >> no, it's not enough. we need people to stand up in office and take responsibility of things that happen under your watch. it like being the captain of a ship. if it goes down, you can't say you are responsible. this has gone on under his realm and being the president and we need -- justice -- >> sorry, didn't mean to interrupt you. the connection is going in and out but we are hearing almost everything you're saying there. one thing the president did do

today is promise more support and more funding for the police in kenosha. what do you think of that approach? >> let me tell you where funding needs to go. funding needs to go in the african american community so our children can have a chance to be successful. funding should go into education in communities like this. funding should go into giving businesses and entrepreneurs an opportunity to rebuild and be functional and supportive in their own community. it happens all over the united states. moneys are given out to all types of organizations to people other than african americans. the may triricks are falling. the truth is we helped build this country. >> we've lost you there for one more second, justin. i think you can hear me again, justin. we did lose you for one more second there. one thing you said to me a moment ago is that the gloves are going to come off now.

what does that mean because your family consistently says and says in no way do you want to see any violence in the streets in kenosha. >> absolutely not. what that means is those running for office, those who consider themselves to be friends or family of the blakes that are in powerful positions need to move on it. it's no longer to say we're friends but you're not doing something about it. so that means our legislative people to start writing bills, to start writing legislation so when the new people get in town in d.c., they have something to move on right away. we want legislation. we say that to vice president biden and sister harris, we wish them well but we're not going to allow anybody, we're going to keep everybody's feet to the fire to make things better right away with african descendants that helped build this country and every city around the country and nation. >> what happens next in the legal case here? do you know? >> well, the blake family is

pushing for an indictment of the officer that took liberties to shoot our nephew unarmed seven times in the back. that looks like justice to get an indictment but not to us, we want to be convicted. we want him to go to jail so his grandmother, his mother, his father, our brother can go forward and close this chapter in our life. >> you continue to say unarmed, jacob wasn't carrying anything in his hand when the police shot him? i'm sorry, i didn't hear your answer. >> with no e kwquivocation, his mother stands by that statement, his father stands by that statement, and our legal team stand by the statement. >> we appreciate you bearing with us through the technical difficulties. our best to your family and jacob. we'll ask the man in charge of president's campaign messaging about the message he thinks his boss is sending and

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we spoke to the uncle of the man barely mentioned in the pasting by the president in kenosha today, jacob blake and shot and paralyzed from t wahe waist town. trump 2020 director of

communications, tim, so glad your here. thank you for joining us. i want to play something president trump said. >> in the plane, it was almost completely loaded with thugs wearing these dark uniforms with gear and this person was coming to the republican national convention, and there were like seven people on the plane like this person and then a lot of people were on the plane to do big damage. >> tim, what specifically is he talking about there? >> well, i don't have all the information that the president has access to, but we know that the people who have gone to these violent -- >> i'm sorry, i'm talking about the plane trip. do you have information -- >> i don't have access to the same information the president has but john, let me ask you a question about this. the people we saw harassing folks outside the white house in

washington thursday night, those people knew the names of regular americans coming out of the white house. the national committee man -- >> tim, i'm sorry, you're a spokesperson for the president. >> how did these -- >> i'm sorry, that's enough. i'm asking you a question about something the president said twice. the president essentially described an airborne assault or at least an air transport assault on a convention, and you, as a senior spokesperson for the campaign says you have no information on it. how can it be that you have no information on it? >> well, i don't work for one of the law enforcement agencies of the federal government. >> this is a political event. >> someone is organizing these trips. someone is transporting these people from other states into these other cities. >> tim -- >> in kenosha. >> tim, can you give me -- >> out of 175 -- >> can you give me -- >> came from a different state -- >> can you give me one piece of evidence -- >> i can give you -- >> that there was any flight

carrying these people that the president is describing? >> john, why don't you explain to me how the protesters on the street knew the name of the national committee man from new hampshi hampshire? would you know him if you saw him? >> if you saw him on the street and chase him down the street? would you know that person? how do these people know the identities of the people they are assigned to harass? >> you're a spokesperson for the president -- >> if no one is organizing them, how do they know who they are? >> i'm talking about a flight -- >> there is not john legend. this is a regular american -- >> i'm talking about a flight the commander in chief organized. let me play this again, listen. >> in the plane, it was completely loaded with thugs wearing these dark uniforms, black uniforms with gear and this and that. this person was coming to the republican national convention. and there were like seven people on the plane like this person and then a lot of people were on

the plane to do big damage. the entire plane filled up with the lootde looters, an ark exis people looking for trouble. this is a first-hand account from a plane going from washington to wherever. >> so the first version of the story he said the plane was going to washington. the second version today he said it was leaving d.c. which one is it, tim? >> john, again, i don't know who told the president that but it is undeniable that these people, these rioters are coming from other cities and other states. the mayor of minneapolis said that 80% of the people who are arrested in the minneapolis riots came from other places. 102 people who were arrested in kenosha, wisconsin out of 175 were not from kenosha. someone is organizing -- >> the president -- >> someone is sending them. >> the president wasn't talking about -- >> let me -- >> john -- >> the president of the united states twice has told a very specific story. albeit a contradictory story. i'll state once again he's the commander in chief.

he controls the military. when he says something about this, when he presents the idea of again this airborne assault, whether it be coming to washington or leaving washington, it's important and all i want to know if it's in any way tethered to reality. did it happen? and i think what you're telling me -- >> it's absolutely tethered to reality. >> you have no -- >> these people are coming from other places. how do you suppose they travel? who is putting them in hotels? >> did he invent this story? >> how did he know -- [ overlapping speakers ] >> how do they have this information? >> you can't -- >> how do they have this information? >> listen -- >> you're talking about -- you're welcome to grill me, john. you're welcome to grill me. have you ever asked joe biden why hasn't denounced antifa. >> tim, you're not answering the question. >> why don't you ask the democrats -- >> you're not answering the question, tim.

>> i have gone over this with you four or five times. >> i have to believe, tim -- >> other places. there are police arrest records for this. >> was there a flight, tim? can you point me to a flight the president talked about twice? >> how do you suppose they arrived in washington, john, if not from an airplane? how do you suppose 102 people arrested in wisconsin not from the area? 80% of the protesters arrested in minneapolis not from the area. >> you cannot confirm to me -- >> did they miracle themselves there? how do you -- >> tim, tim, tim, stop, stop, let me ask a question here. all right. as you have so far not confirmed any specific flight either coming to or leaving washington the president mentioned, let me point out to you that this mirrors this conspiracy theory circulating ocnline since june,a police department looked into this idea people are being moved around the country in flights wearing all kinds of black t-shirts. is it possible the president read this and he's just

regurgitating and getting details wrong? is that possible? >> look, larand paul told a similar story and congressional hearings have been called into look into who is funding outrageous riots by the way joe biden has not identified as left wing riots because that's what they are. he's too weak to stand up today left wing of his party and denounce these riots for what they are because he's absolutely in the control of the anti police wing of today's democrat party. >> none of that -- >> without a question of doubt, john -- >> none of that addresses -- >> outside of the areas where these riots occur. >> tim, you've got no proof. >> we know it, absolutely and you know it. your network has reported about the arrests in kenosha from outside the cakenosha area. >> call us when you have information about these flights that the president has mentioned twice because as of now -- >> call me when you will admit these are left wing rioters coming from outside the region when riots are occurring.

>> appreciate it, tim. perspective from political analyst and white house correspondent maggie haberman and cnn senior political commm n commentator and bakari sellers who is the author of "my vanishing country, a memoir, a country you can reach on any number of flights in and out of washington no doubt." maggie haberman, i want to press tim on that because it's one of these things now that the president has mentioned twice. and, you know, he's done this for years and people may toss it off this is what the president does, it's what the president does. it seems as we sit here tonight, the president invented out of thin air this story of this flight coming in and out and we've got no details here. so what do you make of it all? >> right. look, john, officials at the white house say the president has been briefed on concerns, emphasis on concerns that there might be folks who are being paid to agitate and create

unrest around the protests. that's not new. we heard bill bar and the attorney general say something publicly. what is new this elaborate story about a plane and people boarding it down to the number of people boarding it and suddenly everybody realized they are looters and rioters and changed directions. the president has a history of making up stories of manufacturing incidents and events happening. this may be one of them, may not be. it's incumbent upon the white house to say what he's talking about as he's the president and when he's talking about a moment of deep strife in this country. >> you know, again, it's this conspiracy is created that depicts this airborne transport of demonstrators around the country if he's going to say it, he should come forward with brief. david, there are moments when the president of the united states, again, the commander in chief talks like a spam email or a facebook post that you might see from some crazy aunt or

uncle. we all have them. i'm not speaking specifically of any of my relatives, as far as you know. but some of these posts work. so do people hear this? >> look, i think a portion of the public hears it and receives it. his base hears it and receives it. you know, the thing that's interesting to me about that conversation other than his inability to answer your question was his continuing reference to out of state people coming into these cities to be disruptive and there was no mention of the 17-year-old kid from illinois, kyle rittenhouse whose mother drove him apparently over to kenosha where he with his semiautomatic weapon killed two people and is now indicted for murder. the president of the united states more than having the responsibility to tell the truth really has the responsibility not to foment violence in a way that leads to the loss of life

and, you know, i think joe biden was pretty clear yesterday whether he mentioned antifa or not he was very, very strongly condemning violence and he told people if you think you're bringing about change by doing this, you're wrong. but we haven't heard that from the president. we didn't hear it yesterday. he defended this young man and made a self-defense argument for this young man. he didn't attack or rebuke, i should say, his supporters in portland who drove in in a caravan and stirred things up the other night. he is not helping. he is stirring up conflict because he thinks it's in his political interest and i must say, and this is not a criticism of you because i think you have to follow the story but he, you know, we are 30 minutes in or something and we haven't yet gotten to the coronavirus, and that's the story he doesn't want to talk about. so he is revving up his base. he is diverting the story, and i

think he's getting what he wants out of it, whether it leads him to where he wants to go, which is reelection is a different question, but this is adele lib r -- deliberate strategy. >> it's a fair criticism. it's something -- i was on tv all morning long and we pointed out coronavirus cases are actually rising in the midwest, the president was in the midwest today but that wasn't what he was there for. so there is obviously a clear position there he doesn't want to address that or be seen addressing it in any way. we had justin blake, the uncle of jacob blake on and you saw what happened in cakenosha toda. what is your big take away from today's vents? >> the president doesn't want to talk about coronavirus. he also doesn't want to talk about the problem we have with individuals like jacob blake unarmed individuals who come into contact with law enforcement who do not deserve

to be paralyzed or do not deserve to have lethal force used on them. you know, that's first and foremost. i think people often times forget why we are here. i talk to people often and i'm like, you know, if you don't want protests, stop shooting peep in the ba people in the back seven times. that's the way to nix this. if you don't want protests, don't put a knee in the back of george floyd's neck. we can nix all of this. more importantly, if you want to come down on the side of law enforcement, which i do. i'm speaking to the largest law enforcement agency in south carolina and happy to do it on how we heal our communities but i'll point out which they agree with, you have to condemn kyle rittenhouse. there is no way around that. you have a young man and while he's talking about an airplane that brought in people in all black that nobody can point to, the united states senators that

are going along with this, you know, fantasy that people are talking about, you can condemn this man, this 17-year-old man. i'm not calling to call him a boy but you can condemn this man and his mother who drove him. you can start there. and look, i want to be clear and i do know that my twitter is going to blow up and everything else. i've never met anybody in antifa is something we have in south carolina but hell, i condemn them, too. violence does not do good for the movement period. that's what joe biden said. that's what democrats say. president can't say that. >> the blake family just told us earlier in the show. bakari sellers, david axelrod, appreciate you being with us. >> be sure to tune in for an exclusive interview with bill barr with wolf blitzer tomorrow in the 5:00 p.m. hour of the situation room. straight ahead, we're talking about coronavirus. there is breaking news on that and the use of convalescent

plasma the national institute of health released guidance by the president and head of the fda. we'll tell you what they had to say when "360" continues. ta-da!

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more news on convalesce snt

plasma. they promo one doctor who i was alarmed at the comment wrote a letter saying he should tell the truth or resign. he is the founder of the research translation institute. doctor, i appreciate you being with us. what's the reaction to the nih raising this flag about convalescent plasma promoted by the leader of the government and the fda, another branch of government? >> well, john, good to be with you. this is actually an extraordinary moment, i think, that just eight days ago there was this, as you said, as they said very historic press conference breakthrough and they claimed including commissioner hann there was a 35% reduction of mortality, which was compl e completely unfounded not based on any randomized trial based on

a subgroup of subgroup of subgroup and torture. so today, to also ratify that was off base. the nih issued a statement that there are no data as you said, john, to support these and whether it will work to what magnitude. the cokocommissioner really went of bound and that's why i wrote that open letter. >> to be clear, this is the point we need to stress in terms of the breaking news, the call is coming from inside the house as the nih saying, i think, if i'm not misinterpreting that the fda is wrong and the president is wrong. >> here you have different government lagencies at odds.

remember at the press conference and secretary azar and steven hann, so those are representing the white house, overseas, the cdc and nih coming skpe ing out fauci came out before the press conference a couple days before to say the data is insufficient. they went ahead with it with absolute knowledge there was not consensus and that the data was from a preprint, hadn't even been peer reviewed and an extraordinary strain of trying to use data from a study that does not warrant any remote definition of a break through. >> and then the problem of math, bod math, inaccurate math, dishonest math.

i want to play part of it, listen. >> what that means is and if the data continue to pan out, 100 people who are sick with covid-19, 35 would have been saved because of the administration of plasma. >> so you wrote after that every part of that statement was incorrect in a blatant misrepresentation of data. how shocked were you to hear that from the fda commissioner he participated in that? >> right, well his apology was half butt. he didn't get to the point here that there was no 35% reduction and he said of sick people, sick with covid. about 1 out of 100 people would die from covid. you can't save 35 lives out of one and beyond that, the point being, if you took that data from the mayo clinic study and

extrapolate to a perspective well conducted trial, the most would be three to four people's lives saved of those who otherwise would die. this is completely wrong. he's never made that correction. the other thing -- john, there is many other errors like this. this is not a singular event in his months of tenure as fda commissioner. >> very quickly, what concerns do you have about the use, wide use of convalescent plasma. >> buy-- biologically, pooled plasma, the chances you make a difference are very low because they don't contain neutralizing andy bodies at high levels. we don't know if this will work. it's also a precursor to an even bigger decision, which is of course the issue of a vaccine and premature release of the

vaccine. >> and obviously, credibility is of paramount importance there. in the closing of your letter that you just sent, you write you have one last chance, dr. hann for saving any credibility and preserving trust in the fda at this juncture. you need to organize a press conference and tell the truth. do you have any reasonable expectation that will actually happen? >> i don't think it will happen although i do think he could reclaim credibility and we could get on a plane of knowing there is independence of the fda, that the agency is not beholding to the president for political motives. so if he did come and say look, i made a monstrous error, i want to correct it fully, and now i'm independent, we could perhaps move forward and have some trust. right now we don't have the trust. >> doctor, appreciate your time tonight. i love reading what you write on twitter. it is an education. thank you for the work you're

doing. >> thanks so much, john. still ahead, a look at the new white house scientific advisor who appears to have the president's ear and is reportedly pushing a controversial response to end the coronavirus pandemic by letting it spread and later, a new book says vice president pence was told to prepare for the powers of the presidency after the president's surprise hospital visit last winter. the responses by the president and now the vice president have only fueled that speculation. dr. sanjay gupta joins us for the stories when "360" continues. ...do your sneezes turn heads? try zyrtec... ...it starts working hard at hour one... and works twice as hard when you take it again the next day. zyrtec muddle no more.

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one of the president's scientific advisors is talking about herd immunity so most of the population would acquire immunity. under the concept, the death toll would be higher than the most dire predictions today. dr. scott atlas said he's quote

never advocated that strategy. this is what our dr. sanjay gupta discovered otherwise. here is his keeping them honest repo report. >> we use the word herd. once you get to a certain number it's going to go away. it doesn't have to be. yeah, a lot of people are not going to want to do it. >> that was president trump talking about the concept of achieving herd immunity by allowing masses of people to become infected which if adopted could kill 1.5 to 2 million americans according to experts and overwhelm the hospital system and would take at least four years to achieve if a million people became infected every week. why is the president saying this? many point to dr. scott atlas' influen influence. he's the president's latest medical advisor, former neurologist and had the president's ears but dr. atlas

strongly denied pushing this idea. >> there has never been herd immunity advance to the president or task force. >> that sounds definitive except here is dr. atlas himself in march as part of a hoover institute event. >> it's important for people to understand medical science to know that natural human immunity of populations is sometimes called herd immunity, it's very important that that develops. that's how viruses are eradic e eradicat eradicated. >> in april he wrote an op ed titled the data is in. stop the panic, and end the total isolation. saying that infected people without severe illness are the immediately available vehicle for establishing wide spread ill h immunity and spoke with steve dees. >> those not at risk to die or have a serious hospital requiring illness, we should be

fine with letting them get infected, generating immunity on their own and the more immunity in the community, the better we can eradicate the threat of the virus. >> and again to another hoover of the virus. >> and again in may. >> by doing total isolation, continuing it, we are preventing the development of population based immunity. which is the immediately available way to get rid of this threat. >> at least four instances of dr. atlas advocate iing herd immunity. >> the whole thing is an overt lie. this is washington. i mean, in his own words, that's remarkable to hear him

advocating for population immuni immunity. on top of all that, there is this new information coming in that people may be getting infected a second time after getting infected once and then better. >> even the basic concept means once you get infected you'll have protection for a while. there's been recent reports saying you get immunity for a few months, we still don't know, we're learning as we go along. the point is, it doesn't team to last forever, not even a year or so, you wouldn't even have persistent herd immunity, if people became infected. herd immunity is not a bad thing, but it should be achieved through the vaccine, not through mass infection.

>> he's ils, is exactly what heard immunity is, i get it. sanjay, stick around, we want to talk about a new book and an unexplained visit to walter reed last november.

responses by the president and vice president about the new reporting of the state of president trump's health, for a still unexplained visadvisvisit president trump to walter reed last november. vice president pence was put on stand by to assume the powers of the presidency, in case the president needed to be anne anestitized. listen to what he said. >> there's nothing out of the ordinary or that day. i refer any other questions to the white house. >> but being on stand by. >> i don't recall being on stand by. i was told the president had a doctor's appointment. >> i just want to know -- >> i have to tell you, part of this job,you're always on stand

by, you're vice president of the united states. >> just so we're clear, the vice president was asked about a story that said he was put on stand by to assume the powers of the presidency, in case the president needed anesthesia. that comes after this tweet, it never ends, now they're trying to say that your favorite president went to walter reed medical center, having suffered a series of mini-strokes. never happened to this candidate. fake news. curiously, the book does not mention mini-strokes or any other specific reason for the visit. the words aren't there. with us again, dr. sanjay gupta. i want to leave vice president pence's remarks out of it, maybe we should be worried about his memory today. you've been looking into the visit for a while, what can you tell us about how unusual it was. >> i've covered four different

administrations. and done a lot of reporting on how they care for the president. it was a largely unannounced visit to walter reed. typically the entire hospital staff knows. it's the president, we don't know. who new if anyone, presumably some people knew, but no hospital wide alert went out. when they got in the motorcade to go to the hospital. dr. conley got in the vehicle to the president. that typically doesn't happen, i talked to several other doctors about that, there's a strategic protocol on this, where the doctor is in another vehicle in case something happens to the president, they're out of that zone, they can administer aid to the president. it was a saturday, it wasn't something we had been alerted about. we had been alerted in the past. there was no notification of the press either. this was all fairly unusual, it was a staged physical, they're

going to do part of the physical now, routine labs. the white house medical unit has a fair amount of capacity. we don't know what he had done at the hospital. we don't know what was done there. >> the vice president specifically did not deny that he was put on stand by. he said he couldn't recall it. you would only be put on stand by if there was a concern the president was incapacitated? what concerns -- what medical procedures would incapacity tate him? >> if he needed to be sedated, that's what they're talking about. the idea of invoking the 25th amendment has come up before. george w. bush invoked it twice when he was sedated for col colonosco colonoscopies. those things come to mind. for a colonoscopy, a cardioaversion. obviously, any kind of invasive procedure would require that.

those are the types of things, the visit was just over an hour, so typically not long enough to have had that, did something occur and resolve? we still don't know, it's still a big mystery. >> we certainly don't, the way the president and vice president are addressing it, doesn't aswathe the concerns. thank you very much. the news continues. >> i tell you this, having had to go through convalescent care with my father, you don't ask for one of those acuity tests, the clinician offers it. based on his or her thoughts about the patient. remember that. he can brag about how well he did on the test. it's only offered to people by clinicians who have questions about the acuity of the patient. good to see you. i am chris cuomo, welcome to prime time, as we know, this president was urged not to go to kenosha today. why? we know why. thece