tv Anderson Cooper 360 CNN September 1, 2020 9:00pm-10:00pm PDT
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ckba. but listening to his remarks, would hardly know mr. blake existed. 1:15 hours into the visit before he spoke about it at all. then when asked about it. about mr. blake's mother. >> heard she was a fine woman, going to speak to her. but heard there were a lot of lawyers on the phone, i have enough lawyers in my life. >> michael cohen who helped pay off stormy daniels and -- who helped get him impeached. man mow paralyzed and shooting followed by demonstrations and shooting of two protesters alend allegedly by would-be vigilante. >> i know you didn't talk to the blake family but what would you
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say in terms of the pain they're going through and questions they have about what happened? >> i feel terribly for anyone that goes through that. that's why i was honored to meet the pastors. feel terribly for anybody. as you know, it's under investigation, big thing happening right now. i guess under local investigation. >> so never once, neither there nor during rest of the visit did the president utter jacob blake's name. not sure he ever has said it. not sure he knows it. what does that tell you about his views on the pain felt by so many african-americans? and when asked about race and policing, systemic racism, here's how the president responded. >> i don't believe that. i think the police do an incredible job, and i think you do have some bad apples. agree every once in a while you see something. and you do have the other situation too, under this tremendous pressure and don't handle it well.
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call it choking, and it happens. >> choking, interesting choice of words, horrifying when compares it to missing a golf putt as he also did. in point of fact, choking was inflicted on eric garner for selling cigarettes and for george floyd, that's the reason protesters chant i can't breathe. that's not front of mind for the president. what is is highlighting the violence in kenosha and portland, oregon, and inventing conspiracy theories about his opponent. >> take a look at what's going on and biden -- i don't like to mention biden, he's not controlling anything. >> who do you think is pulling biden's strings? former obama officials? >> people you've never heard of, in the dark shadows. >> that sounds like conspiracy theory, what is that? >> president on fox news. that sound you hear is cable
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news talking head who traffics in right-wing conspiracy theories trying to talk the leader of the free world off the ledge she can see he's out on. but she can't. >> people you haven't heard of, people that are on the streets, people that are controlling the streets. we had somebody get on a plane from a certain city this weekend and in the plane it was almost complete completely loaded with thugs wearing dark uniforms, black uniforms with gear and this and this. on a plane. >> where was this? >> i'll tell you some time, it's under investigation. came from a certain city coming to the republican national convention. seven people on the plane like this person and then a lot of people were on the plane to do big damage. >> planning for washington? >> yeah, this is all happening. >> but the money is coming from somewhere. >> money is coming from stupid
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rich people that have no idea if thing ever succeeded, which it won't, they will be thrown to the wolves like you've never seen before. >> told the story again today, this time flight wasn't going to washington but in the president's words from washington to wherever. and as you might imagine, offered no evidence to back it up, almost goes without saying that's not the point. point is gin up as much fear as possible, this is the conspiratorial cherry on top. >> in recent days our nation has been gripped by professional anarchists, violent mobs, arsonists, criminals, rioters, antifa and others. angry mobs trying to tear down statues of our founders, it deface sacred memorial and unleash a wave of violent crime in our cities. you had radical anarchists,
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horrible people, agitators, not protesters. there is violence and danger in democrat-run cities in america. smolder and ruins of minneapolis, violent anarchy of portland, blood-stained sidewalks of chicago. imagine the mayhem coming to your town and every single town in america. >> franklin roosevelt's famous words "only thing we have to fear is fear itself," president would answer only thing we have to fear is everything. this dark ominous language sounds familiar. remember the caravan? >> they've got a lot of rough people in those caravans, not angels. tough. criminals in some cases, many cases. these are tough people. last week i called up the united states military, we're not playing games, folks.
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because you look at what's marching up, that's an invasion. you have very tough criminal elements within the caravan. these are hardened criminals coming in. wouldn't be surprised. i don't know who but wouldn't be surprised. lot of people say yes. >> there's that shadowy presence again, which the president never exposes because only evidence just like this time is people say so, some guy told me. that wasn't first time either. 2011 talking about his allegations, bogus allegations that president obama was not born here. >> i have people that actually have been studying it and they cannot believe what they're finding. >> people now searching in hawaii? >> absolutely and they can't believe what they're finding. >> that was a lie. nobody found anything because he
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didn't send any people. instructive to hear it again, he's recycling the same material over and over. insert a new boogie man or boogie woman for that matter. doing it again now, only this time on top of a powder keg with the biggest boxes of matches he's ever had. joining us now, jacob blake's uncle justin blake. mr. blake, i appreciate you being with us, thank you so much for your time. can you tell us how jacob is doing this evening? >> thank you for having us on your program tonight. jacob is doing better. he's slowly but surely able to talk a little better. stay up a little longer. hold the hand of his father, our brother big jake and talk to his mother, communicate to julia. told her she was looking beautiful.
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and knew he must be doing better, weight lifted off her shoulders, life not further in danger. knew he had been looking better because of how she looked at the hotel. >> how much is he aware of everything going on in ken o'os? >> not much, he's stuck where he was shot. he asked why did they shoot me so many times. he's seeking to communicate more but hasn't moved past that bump in the road thus far. >> the president was in kenosha today, you heard some of what he had to say, how satisfied were with you his message? >> not satisfied at all. he's been a lying president, racially discriminating against minorities and racial things he's said have invoked and
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empowered police officers across the country to rain down heat on african-americans like our little nephew. we're taking the gloves off and standing strong, still asking people to be peaceful but put facts on the table and say things as they are. he went far outside of police duty shooting our nephew seven times in the back in front of his children three feet away with his gun, three children in the car. we need to look at ethics and morals and ask is this acceptable for anybody? especially a descendant of the people who built this country, made it what it is today. need to hand thl in 2020. >> he spoke about the violence.
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i don't think i've ever heard him say jacob's name. what does that matter to you? >> doesn't. would be all scripted. would give him power we refuse to give anybody. >> justin, can you still hear me? >> indictment, we need it soon, doesn't take this long to look at viewing of the video we have, world has seen, to say that was far beyond any policing that should be done on behalf of any citizen anywhere. and we're going to correct it in 2020. >> as i did say, president never mention add jacob blake's name. did when asked specific questions say about your family he feels terribly for anybody that is going through this. is that enough for you? >> no, it's not enough. we need people to stand up there in the office and take
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responsibility of things that happen under your watch. it's captain of ship. if it goes down, you can't say you aren't responsible. this is going on under his realm and being the president, and we need -- [ inaudible ] -- justice system. >> didn't mean to interrupt. >> can you hear me? >> it's going in and out but we're hearing almost everything. president promised more support and funding for police in kenosha. what do you think of that approach? >> funding needs to go in the african-american community so our children can have a chance to be successful. funding should go into education in communities like this. into giving businesses and entrepreneurs opportunity to rebuild and be functional in the
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communities. happens all over the united states, monies given out to all sorts. we're not believing anything other than the truth which we helped build this country. >> we lost you one more second, i think you can hear me again. lost you one second there. one of the things you said a moment ago was that gloves are going to come off now. what does that mean? because your family consistently has continued to say in no way do you want violence on the streets of kenosha. >> absolutely not. that means those running for office, those who consider themselves to be friends or family of the blakes in powerful positions need to move on it. it's no good to say we're friends but not doing something about it. legislative people, start writing bills, legislation, so
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when the new people get in d.c. they've got something to move on right away. we want legislation. say that to vice president biden and sister harris, we wish them well but not going to allow anybody -- going to keep everybody's feet to the fire to make things better right away for the african descendents who helped build this country. >> what happens next in legal case, do you know? >> blake family is pushing for indictment of the officer who took liberties to shoot our nephew unarmed seven times in the back. that looks like justice to get indictment, but not to us, we want to be convicted. him to go to jail so his grandmother, his mother, his father and brother can close this chapter in our life. >> you continue to say unarmed, that jacob wasn't carrying anything in his hand when the
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police shot him? i'm sorry, didn't hear your answer. >> no equivocation, his father and mother stands by the statement, and our legal team stands by that statement. >> all right. justin blake, appreciate your time and bearing with us through the technical difficulties. best to your family and to jacob during his recovery. next, man in charge of the president's campaign messaging, about the message he thinks he's send, and covid-19 breaking news on treatment that president has been touting heavily.
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we spoke to the uncle of the man barely mentioned in the passing by the prenz president during his visit to kenosha today, jacob blake and shot and paralyzed from the waist down, shot by a kenosha police officer. now joining us, tim murtaugh, trump 2020 director of communications, tim, so glad your here. thank you for joining us. i want to play something president trump said. >> in the plane, it was almost completely loaded with thugs wearing these dark uniforms with gear and this person was coming to the republican national convention, and there were like seven people on the plane like this person and then a lot of people were on the plane to do big damage. >> tim, what specifically is he talking about there?
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>> well, i don't have all the information that the president has access to, but we know that the people who have gone to these violent -- >> i'm sorry, i'm talking about the plane trip. coming to the convention, a political event. do you have any information about the people on the plane or the flight? >> i don't have access to the same information the president has but john, let me ask you a question about this. the people we saw harassing folks outside the white house in washington thursday night, those people knew the names of regular americans coming out of the white house. the national committee man -- >> tim, i'm sorry, you're a spokesperson for the president. >> he knew his name, how did that happen. >> i'm sorry i have to interrupt, asking you about something the president said twice. the president essentially described an airborne assault or at least an air transport assault on a convention, and you, as a senior spokesperson for the campaign says you have no information on it. how can it be that you have no
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information on it? >> well, i don't work for one of the law enforcement agencies of the federal government. >> this is a political event. >> someone is organizing these trips. someone is transporting these people from other states into these other cities. >> tim -- >> in kenosha. >> tim, can you give me -- >> 102 people arrested out of 175 -- >> can you give me -- >> came from a different state -- >> can you give me one piece of evidence -- >> i can give you -- >> that there was any flight carrying these people that the president is describing? >> john, why don't you explain to me how the protesters on the street knew the name of the national committee man from new hampshire? would you know him if you saw him? able to identify him by name and chase him down the street. >> i want to play -- how do they know the identities of the people they are assigned to harass? >> you're a spokesperson for the president -- >> if no one is organizing them, how do they know who they are? >> i'm talking about a flight -- >> there is not john legend.
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this is a regular american -- >> i'm talking about a flight the commander in chief mentioned not once but twice. let me play this again, listen. >> in the plane, it was completely loaded with thugs wearing these dark uniforms, black uniforms with gear and this and that. this person was coming to the republican national convention. and there were like seven people on the plane like this person and then a lot of people were on the plane to do big damage. the entire plane filled up with the looters, anarchists, rioters, people looking for trouble. this is a first-hand account from a plane going from washington to wherever. >> so the first version of the story he said the plane was going to washington. the second version today he said it was leaving d.c. which one is it, tim? >> john, again, i don't know who told the president that but it is undeniable that these people, these rioters are coming from other cities and other states.
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the mayor of minneapolis said that 80% of the people who are arrested in the minneapolis riots came from other places. 102 people who were arrested in kenosha, wisconsin out of 175 were not from kenosha. someone is organizing -- >> the president -- >> someone is sending them. >> the president wasn't talking about -- >> let me -- >> state lines. >> john -- >> the president of the united states twice has told a very specific story. albeit a contradictory story. i'll state once again he's the commander in chief. he controls the military. when he says something about this, when he presents the idea of again this airborne assault, whether it be coming to washington or leaving washington, it's important and all i want to know if it's in any way tethered to reality. did it happen? and i think what you're telling me -- >> it's absolutely tethered to reality. >> you have no -- >> these people are coming from other places. how do you suppose they travel? who is putting them in hotels? >> did he invent this story? >> how did he know -- [ overlapping speakers ]
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>> how do they have this information? >> you can't -- >> how do they have this information? >> listen -- >> you're talking about -- you're welcome to grill me, john. you're welcome to grill me. have you ever asked joe biden why hasn't denounced antifa. >> tim, you're not answering the question. >> why don't you ask the democrats -- >> you're not answering the question, tim. >> i have gone over this with you four or five times. >> i have to believe, tim -- it's pause you can't. >> other places. there are police arrest records for this. >> was there a flight, tim? can you point me to a flight the president talked about twice? >> how do you suppose they arrived in washington, john, if not from an airplane? how do you suppose 102 people arrested in wisconsin not from the area? >> let me ask you this. >> and 80% of the protesters arrested in minneapolis not from the area. >> you cannot confirm to me -- >> did they miracle themselves there? how do you -- >> tim, tim, tim, stop, stop,
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let me ask a question here. all right. as you have so far not confirmed any specific flight either coming to or leaving washington the president mentioned, let me point out to you that this mirrors this conspiracy theory circulating online since june, a police department in idaho even looked into it, this idea people are being moved around the country in flights wearing all kinds of black t-shirts. is it possible the president read this and he's just regurgitating and getting details wrong? is that possible? >> look, rand paul told a similar story and member of congress has called for congressional hearings have been called into look into who is funding outrageous riots by the way joe biden has not identified as left wing riots because that's what they are. he's too weak to stand up today left wing of his party and denounce these riots for what they are because he's absolutely in the control of the anti police wing of today's democrat party. >> none of that --
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none of that addresses -- >> without a question of doubt, john -- >> none of that addresses -- >> outside of the areas where these riots occur. >> tim, you've got no proof. >> we know it, absolutely and you know it. your network has reported about the arrests in kenosha from outside the kenosha area. your own reporting shows that. >> call us when you have information about these flights that the president has mentioned twice because as of now -- >> call me when you will admit these are left wing rioters coming from outside the region where riots are occurring. >> appreciate it, tim. perspective from political analyst and white house correspondent maggie haberman and cnn senior political commentator david axelrod and bakari sellers, who is the author of "my vanishing country, a memoir, a country you can reach on any number of flights in and out of washington no doubt." maggie haberman, i want to press tim on that because it's one of these things now that the president has mentioned twice. and, you know, he's done this
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for years and people may toss it off this is what the president does, it's what the president does. it seems as we sit here tonight, the president invented out of thin air this story of this flight coming in and out and we've got no details here. so what do you make of it all? >> right. look, john, officials at the white house say the president has been briefed on concerns, emphasis on concerns that there might be folks who are being paid to agitate and create unrest around the protests. that's not new. we heard bill barr, the attorney general say something about that lately. what is new this elaborate story about a plane and people boarding it down to the number of people boarding it and suddenly everybody realized they are looters and rioters and changed directions. the president has a history of making up stories of manufacturing incidents and events that have happened. this may be one of them, may not be. it's incumbent upon the white house to say what he's talking
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about as he's the president and when he's talking about a moment of deep strife in this country. >> you know, again, it's this conspiracy he's created that depicts this airborne transport of demonstrators around the country if he's going to say it, he should come forward with proof. david, there are moments when the president of the united states, again, the commander in chief talks like a spam email or a facebook post that you might see from some crazy aunt or uncle. we all have them. i'm not speaking specifically of any of my relatives, as far as you know. but some of these posts work. so do people hear this? >> look, i think a portion of the public hears it and receives it. his base hears it and receives it. you know, the thing that's interesting to me about that conversation other than his inability to answer your question was his continuing reference to out of state people coming into these cities to be disruptive and there was no
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mention of the 17-year-old kid from illinois, kyle rittenhouse whose mother drove him apparently over to kenosha where he with his semiautomatic weapon killed two people and is now indicted for murder. the president of the united states more than having the responsibility to tell the truth really has the responsibility not to foment violence in a way that leads to the loss of life and, you know, i think joe biden was pretty clear yesterday whether he mentioned antifa or not he was very, very strongly condemning violence and he told people if you think you're bringing about change by doing this, you're wrong. but we haven't heard that from the president. we didn't hear it yesterday. he defended this young man and made a self-defense argument for this young man. he didn't attack or rebuke, i should say, his supporters in portland who drove in in a caravan and stirred things up the other night.
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he is not helping. he is stirring up conflict because he thinks it's in his political interest and i must say, and this is not a criticism of you because i think you have to follow the story but he, you know, we are 30 minutes in or something and we haven't yet gotten to the coronavirus, and that's the story he doesn't want to talk about. so he is revving up his base. he is diverting the story, and i think he's getting what he wants out of it, whether it leads him to where he wants to go, which is reelection is a different question, but this is a deliberate strategy, and it's very much in keeping with what we've seen from him last four years. >> it's a fair criticism. it's something -- i was on tv all morning long and we pointed out coronavirus cases are actually rising in the midwest, the president was in the midwest today but that wasn't what he was there for. so there is obviously a clear
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juxtaposition there, he didn't want to address that or be seen addressing it in any way. we had justin blake, the uncle of jacob blake on and you saw what happened in kenosha today. what is your big take away from day's events? >> the president doesn't want to talk about coronavirus. he also doesn't want to talk about the problem we have with individuals like jacob blake unarmed individuals who come into contact with law enforcement who do not deserve to be paralyzed or do not deserve to have lethal force used on them. you know, that's first and foremost. i think people often times forget why we are here. i talk to people often and i'm like, you know, if you don't want protests, stop shooting people in the back seven times. that's the way to nix this. if you don't want protests, don't put a knee in the back of george floyd's neck. for 8:46. we can nix all of this. more importantly, if you want to
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come down on the side of law enforcement, which i do. i'm speaking to the largest law enforcement agency in south carolina and happy to do it on how we heal our communities but i'll point out which they agree with, you have to condemn kyle rittenhouse. there is no way around that. you have a young man and while he's talking about an airplane that brought in people in all black that nobody can point to, the united states senators that are going along with this, you know, fantasy that people are talking about, you can condemn this man, this 17-year-old man. i'm not calling to call him a boy but you can condemn this man and his mother who drove him. you can start there. and look, i want to be clear and i do know that my twitter is going to blow up and everything else. i've never met anybody in antifa it's not something we have in south carolina but hell, i condemn them, too. violence does not do good for the movement period.
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that's what joe biden said. that's what democrats say. president can't say that. >> the blake family just told us earlier in the show. bakari sellers, david axelrod, maggie haberman, i do appreciate you being with us. >> be sure to tune in for an exclusive interview with bill barr with wolf blitzer tomorrow in the 5:00 p.m. hour of the situation room. straight ahead, we're talking about coronavirus. there is breaking news on that and the use of convalescent plasma. the national institutes of health released guidance by the president and head of the fda. we'll tell you what they had to say when "360" continues. ♪ take the good, with the bad ♪ live the life you want to have ♪ ♪ send it off, with a bang ♪ it's looking really good! ♪ [whistling]
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more news on convalescent plasma. national institutes of health now says it should not be considered for standard care for treatment of covid-19 until more study has been done. panel of experts says there's unsufficient data to recommend for or against its use. president and head of the fda vigorously promoted the treatment as breakthrough. doctor who was alarmed at the comment wrote a letter saying he should tell the truth or resign. he is the founder of the scripps research translation institute. doctor, i appreciate you being with us. what's the reaction to the nih raising this flag about convalescent plasma promoted by the president, the leader of the government and the fda, another branch of
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government? >> well, john, good to be with you. this is actually an extraordinary moment, i think, that just eight days ago there was this, as you said, as they said very historic press conference breakthrough and they claimed including commissioner hahn that there was this 35% reduction of mortality, which was completely unfounded not based on any randomized trial based on a subgroup of subgroup of subgroup analysis. data torture. so today, to also ratify that was off base. the nih issued a statement that there are no data as you said, john, to support the use of convalescent plasma, whether it's yes or no, we need randomized trials.
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there is no data to show whether it will work to what magnitude. the commissioner really went out of bound and that's why i wrote that open letter. >> to be clear, this is the point we need to stress in terms of the breaking news, the call is coming from inside the house as the nih saying, i think, if i'm not misinterpreting that the fda is wrong and the president is wrong. >> here you have different government agencies at odds. remember at the press conference also included secretary azar of hhs. three of them, president trump and stephen hahn. so those are representing the white house, hhs which oversees cdc and nih coming out and tony fauci came out before the press conference a couple days before to say the data is insufficient.
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they went ahead with it with absolute knowledge there was not consensus and that the data was from a preprint, hadn't even been peer reviewed and an extraordinary strain of trying to use data from a study that does not warrant any remote definition of a break through. >> and then the problem of math, bad math, inaccurate math, dishonest math. i want to play part of it, listen. >> what that means is and if the data continue to pan out, 100 people who are sick with covid-19, 35 would have been saved because of the administration of plasma. >> so you wrote after that every part of that statement was incorrect in a blatant misrepresentation of data. it was just bad math that dr. hahn had to apologize for. how shocked were you to hear that from the fda commissioner he participated in that?
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>> right, well his apology was half assed. all he did was say i mixed up absolute and relative. he didn't get to the point here that there was no 35% reduction and he said of sick people, sick with covid. about 1 out of 100 people would die from covid. you can't save 35 lives out of one and beyond that, the point being, if you took that data from the mayo clinic study and extrapolated to a randomized, well conducted trial, the most would be three to four people's lives saved of those who otherwise would die. this is completely wrong. he's never made that correction. the other thing -- john, there is many other errors like this. this is not a singular event in his months of tenure as fda commissioner. >> very quickly, what concerns do you have about the use, wide use of convalescent plasma.
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well, biologically, when we make antibodies if you suffered infection, they mostly don't do anything. not neutralized. so when you give pooled plasma, the chances you make a difference are very low because they don't contain neutralizing antibodies at high levels. we don't know if this will work. some risks are inherent with this. it's also a precursor to an even bigger decision, which is of course the issue of a vaccine and premature release of the vaccine. >> and obviously, credibility is of paramount importance there. in the closing of your letter that you just sent, you write you have one last chance, dr. hahn for saving any credibility and preserving trust in the fda in this critical juncture of the pandemic. you need to organize a press conference and tell the truth. do you have any reasonable expectation that will actually happen? >> i don't think it will happen although i do think he could reclaim credibility and we could
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get on a plane of knowing there is independence of the fda, that he is not subservient, and the agency is not beholden to the president for political motives. so if he did come and say look, i made a monstrous error, i want to correct it fully, and now i'm independent, we could perhaps move forward and have some trust. right now we don't have the trust. >> dr. top ol, i appreciate your time tonight, i love reading what you write on twitter. it is an education. thank you for the work you're doing. >> thanks so much, john. still ahead, a look at the new white house scientific advisor who appears to have the president's ear and is reportedly pushing a controversial response to end the coronavirus pandemic by letting it spread. and later, a new book says vice president pence was told to prepare for the powers of the presidency after the president's surprise hospital visit last winter. the responses by the president and now the vice president have only fueled that speculation. dr. sanjay gupta joins us for the stories when "360" continues. when the world gets complicated,
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about herd immunity, letting covid-19 run pretty much unchecked to most of the population would acquire immunity. under the concept, the death toll would be higher than the most dire predictions today. dr. scott atlas said he's quote never advocated that strategy. this is what our dr. sanjay gupta discovered otherwise. here is his keeping them honest report. >> we use the word herd. once you get to a certain number it's going to go away. it doesn't have to be. yeah, a lot of people are not going to want to do it. >> that was president trump talking about the concept of achieving herd immunity by allowing masses of people to become infected which if adopted could kill 1.5 to 2 million americans according to experts and overwhelm the hospital system and would take at least four years to achieve if a million people became infected every week. why is the president saying this? many point to dr. scott atlas'
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influence. he's the president's latest medical advisor, former neuroradiologist who also lately has had the president's ear. but dr. atlas strongly denied pushing this idea. >> there has never been herd immunity advocacy from me to the president or task force. >> that sounds definitive except here is dr. atlas himself in march as part of a hoover institute event. >> it's important for people to understand medical science to know that natural human immunity of populations is sometimes called herd immunity, it's very important that that develops. that's how viruses are eradicated. >> in april he wrote an op ed published in "the hill," titled "the data is in, stop the panic and end the total isolation,"
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saying that infected people without severe illness are the immediately available vehicle for establishing widespread immunity and spoke with steve dees. >> those not at risk to die or have a serious hospital we should be fine with letting them get infected, generating immunity on their own, and the more immunity in the community, the better we can eradicate the threat of the virus. >> reporter: and again to another hoover institute briefing in may. >> by doing total isolation, continuing it, we are preventing the development of population-based immunity, which is the most immediately available way to get rid of this threat. >> reporter: at least four instances of dr. atlas advocating for herd immunity through mass infection, which makes his denials like this harder and harder to believe. >> i mean, whole thing is an overt lie, but this is washington.
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>> i mean, in his own words, sanjay, that is remarkable to hear him in his own words advocating for what he calls population immunity, which is the same thing as herd immunity. on top of all that now, there is this new information coming in that people may, may be getting infected a second time after getting infected once and then getting better. >> right. >> how would that affect the concept of herd immunity? >> yeah, i mean, this is a great point. i mean, even -- even the basic concept of herd immunity counts in this idea that once you get infected, you're going to have protection for a while. as you know, there's been a couple of recent reports, john, saying maybe -- maybe you get immunity for a few months after the infection. we still don't know. we're learning as we go along, given the newness of this deed, but the point is it doesn't seem to last certainly forever, maybe not even longer than a year or so, so you wouldn't even have persistent herd immunity if people became infected. i just want to say quickly, as
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well, herd immunity in and of itself is not a bad thing, but it should be achieved through the vaccine, not through mass infection, john. >> measles, right? >> exactly. >> is ultimately what herd immunity is. i get it. all right, sanjay, stick around. we want to discuss a remarkable story with you. responses now from president trump and victor mike pence to stories that have renewed concerns of president trump's health and put a spotlight on a visit to walter reed last november. the details when we return.
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and vice president tonight to new reporting about the state of president trump's health only fueling speculation about the reason for a still unexplained visit by trump to walter reed medical center last november. according to a new book from "new york times" michael schmitt, vice president pence was put on standby to temporarily assume the powers potentially of the presidency in case the president needed to be anne in anne . >> as far as being on stand by, i don't recall being told to be on standby. i was informed that the president had a doctor's appointment and i don't want to -- >> i just want to -- >> i must say -- i got to tell you, part of this job is you're always on standby, is you're vice president of the united states. >> just so we're clear, the vice president was asked about a
quote
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story that says he was put on standby to assume the powers of the presidency in case the president needed anesthesia. his response was, quote, i don't recall. it comes after this tweet by the president today. quote, it never ends. now they're trying to say that your favorite president, me, went to walter reed medical center having suffered a series of mini strokes. never happened to this candidate. fake news. perhaps they're referring to another candidate from another party. now, curiously the book, which cnn has obtained, does not mention mini strokes or any other specific reason for the visit. the words aren't there. with us again, dr. sanjay gupta. now, sanjay, i want to leave vice president pence's remarks out of it because maybe we should be worried about his memory today, but you've been looking into the president's visit to walter reed for a while. what can you tell us about how unusual it was? >> well, you know, i've covered, you know, four different administrations and done a lot of reporting about how they care for the president in the white house. there was several things that were unusual.
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first of all, it was a largely unannounced visit to walter reed. typically the entire hospital staff knows. there are worards that are cleared. specialen special entrances. it's the president. there was no hospital-wide alert that went out. the big issue when they got in the motor cade cade, dr. connol into the vehicle with the president. that typically doesn't happen. i talked to several other white house doctors about that. there is a real significant, strategic protocol on this where the doctor is another vehicle, they can come administer aid to the president and then, you know, the whole idea that it was a saturday, you know, wasn't something that we were alerted about. had been alerted about in the past about presidential visits to the hospital. there was no notification of the press either. so this was all fairly unusual. they said it was a staged physical. they're going to do part of the physical now, just some routine labs. well, the white house medical unit has quite a bit of
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capacity. they can do a fair amount of that. so we still don't know what he had done at the hospital. the visit was around over an hour, but we don't know what was done there. >> so the vice president specifically did not deny he was put on standby. he says he couldn't recall it. only put on standby if there was a concern the president would be incapacitated. what medical procedures would the president have that would incapacitate him? >> well, you know, i mean, if the president needs to be sedated, under any kind of anesthesia, that's what they're talking about. the idea of invoking the 25th amendment has come up before when president reagan was shot, george w. bush invoked it twice when he was sedated for colonoscopies. those are the things that come to mind. if somebody is in an abnormal heart rhythm. some certain tests may require see sedation. though are the types of things. i will say again the visit was ju
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