sacrifices that americans volunteered to make, to keep us all safe. this tuesday, in what's certainly not the best of times, those themes have taken on that much more weight. and, to a large extent, are converging tonight. the president is campaigning in north carolina. a state that's already started mail-in voting and is expecting possibly hundreds of thousands to take advantage of it. precisely, because of the coronavirus. but looking at the president's rally, tonight, you wouldn't know that. it is, as you can see, a potential virus superspreader event. he is, also, back to belittling people for wearing masks. in addition, to the president who sidelined dr. anthony fauci and other experts is reportedly now enamored with a new task force member. someone with no training in the field, protecting the most vulnerable people and otherwise letting the virus spread. and spread, it has. the projection that more than 400,000 lives will be lost by the end of the year, according to one widely-cited forecast.

and though, new cases have declined from their peak, they are still averaging just shy of 40,000 new cases a day. that is twice as high as after the last, big dip. as of tonight, more than 6.3 million americans have tested positive for covid. and just for perspective, this weekend marked exactly six months since kellyanne conway, no doctor, herself, but the president's departing senior adviser, expressed contempt for a reporter who asked what the administration was doing to keep the virus contained. >> it is being contained. and do you not think it's being contained in this country? >> i'm not a doctor. >> when she said that, there were just 215 cases in the country. again, as of tonight, it's more than 6.3 million. the number of pediatric cases has increased 16%, over two weeks, according to the american academy of pediatrics and children's hospital association. universities and colleges, as you know, have been getting hit especially hard. and again, as he has tonight in winston, salem, the president has been holding unprotected,

mass gatherings, often several times a week. about having a vaccine by election day. >> we're going to have us a vaccine, very soon. maybe, even before a very special date. you know what date i'm talking about. >> yeah. he is openly signaling he's more interested in a vaccine to keep himself in office, than anything else, which may have something to do with the pledge signed today by nine leading biopharmaceutical companies, suggesting they will not seek emergency approval authorization for any new vaccine, until after their safety and efficacy is proven in phase three trials. we just learned, this evening, astrazeneca suspended one of those trials because of an unexplained illness in one of the volunteers, which only underscores how far from normal the president's remarks have been. as was his advocacy, of course, of hydroxychloroquine, as he was pushing the fda commissioner to convalescent plasma in the way the commissioner would later have to apologize for because it was so inaccurate.

praising the likes of the demon sperm doctor. pushing a cure, now rejected. so, yeah, dangling a vaccine in front of americans while all but admitting he is trying to get their votes with it is, pretty much, par for the course. so is ignoring his task force who said this, today, about having a vaccine by election day. >> i think that's unlikely. i mean, the only way you can see that scenario come true is if that there are so many infections in the clinical trial sites, that you get a efficacy answer, sooner than you would have projected. like i said, it's not impossible, judy. but it's unlikely that we'll have a definitive answer, at that time. more likely, by the end of the year. >> which again, the president is openly is suggesting is too late for him, personally, politically. and keeping him honest. doesn't the fact that he is

saying this cynical part, out loud, also speak to how he views the people that he is sworn to serve? how he views all of us? it's as though he is confessing to seeing them as suckers, which also is not normal but also not surprising. suckers and losers is how the president reportedly referred to american service members buried at a cemetery in france. he declined to visit two years ago. suckers is what he reportedly called american men and women, many poor and minorities, who served in vietnam. losers is what he reportedly called the captured and the killed. jeffrey goldberg in the atlantic published the first account of this. citing four sources with direct knowledge of what the president said. since then, numerous outlets including cnn, associated press, and "washington post," and yes, fox news, have confirmed many pieces of goldberg's reporting. why some would doubt the president said these things is, frankly, astonishing. he proudly stated, while running for president, that john mccain was a loser and not a war hero. also, saying he liked people who aren't captured and held as prisoners. there's been total silence from

any current or former military commander reported to trump. no denials ever said these things. john bolton has said he never heard the president say those things but, quote, i'm not saying he didn't say them later in the day or another time. asser for t as for the troops, there are plenty in north carolina. ft. bragg is there, among others. some were likely at the president's event tonight. some may have lost loved ones to covid or in combat offer r to suicide. whether or not they're willing to believe the man at the podium disparaged our troops, disparaged men and women who are just like them, who may determine the outcome of the election in north carolina. and perhaps, it may determine the outcome of the election, nationwide. first, tonight, the president's mass gathering. cnn's chief medical correspondent, c. sanjay gupta. so, sanjay, i mean, given all we know about the virus, how it spreads, is there any way to justify holding a campaign event

like this? i mean, putting -- isn't it putting people's lives, potentially, at risk? >> i mean, you know, we are dealing with a highly contagious virus. the one thing that we're told is that this virus likes to jump. you know, host to host. and when you look at these images of the rallies. i mean, this is the sort of event you're -- you're trying to avoid. you know, we've gotten ahold of the task force recommendations for the various states, including north carolina. and if you look at the numbers, overall, north carolina would be in the red zone and that's based on the number of people per 100,000 who have contracted the virus. there is a mask mandate in place. if you are -- if you can't stay six feet away from somebody. obviously, not a lot of people wearing masks there. and you're not supposed to have any kind of event that's larger than 50 people in north carolina, right now. and that comes from the data, sort of trying to say, look, here's the viral spread. here is what we think is the level of concern. and that's how they arrive at these numbers. so, you know, you look at events

like this. frankly, any time you're aggregating people together, that's the risk. the virus likes to jump from host to host. that's -- that's what, you know, could potentially happen in situations like this. >> yeah, in terms of consequences, there is the very real possibility that every time the president does this, it could be a superspreader event that impacts -- has ripple effects, not only in that community but, from far and wide, where people go back to their homes. even -- it could affect people, even, who did not go to this event. >> absolutely. you know, people think of superspreaders as being individuals. but they're -- they are what you said, anderson. the superspreader is the event. it's the sort of -- the entire event and all the various ingredients that make a superspreader event. so, potentially, people in an area where the virus is known to spread. you go into an area like this. if you're in -- in a group of more than 50 people, there is a much higher likelihood you are going to come in contact with somebody who is carrying the

virus. again, that's where those numbers come from. you could, then, become infected, as we know. it is not likely you are going to have any symptoms for some time. couple of weeks, even. and during that time, you could potentially spread the virus. people come to these events, from all over the place. and then, they go back to their homes, to their communities, wherever. and that's -- that's the problem, here. you know, there was a wedding cnn reported on this wedding that took place in maine. there were 65 people at this reception. subsequent, because of that reception, there were 147 people, i believe, who became infected and three people died. and they were in various places, around the state. even, some outside the state. so that -- that -- that's the real concern. and i should point out, anderson, because every time we talk about this, people say, well, what about the protests? and things like that. yes, any time you aggregate people together, especially if they're not wearing masks, that -- you run the risk of having these superspreader-type events. we're in the middle of a pandemic.

we still are. and this is a very contagious virus that we are still dealing with. that hasn't changed. >> yeah. sanjay, appreciate it. going to talk to sanjay in just a bit about the breaking vaccine news because there is a lot of that tonight. want to get more perspective now on the president's rally and where he is going this week, and that is michigan. governor whitmer joins me now. he is holding a campaign event in your state this thursday. as you see the pictures from florida and also north carolina. no social distancing. many, not wearing masks. how does -- how do you avoid this happening in michigan? can you? >> well, it's distressing, to say the least. you know, we have been following the science here in michigan. we have a mask mandate. we've got gathering rules to ensure that we don't have superspreader events. and yet, we anticipate that he'll be descending on -- on this state. and perhaps, encouraging people to come maskless and -- and come together and in the ways that we've seen them happening across the country. and i think this is very distressing. we've pushed our curve down.

we've saved thousands of lives. we've gotten people back to work. and events like this threaten all that sacrifice that we've made. and i -- i would love to see the leader of our country embrace masks and encourage people to do the right thing. this is an economic crisis. this is a public health crisis, and we got to get serious about it and focus on getting this right. >> are you -- i mean, i don't -- how does it work? in -- in -- you know, in your state, does -- do you communicate with the trump campaign? or anyone in the white house about a visit like this? i know you said you have a mask mandate. i know, in michigan, if you are outdoors and it's not possible to stay six feet away, you have the mask mandate. is there anything to enforce a mask -- i mean, a mandate at these campaign events? >> well, the fact of the matter is we've been educating our public. people understand the science. they get it. the vast majority of people in this state are doing the right thing. i -- i don't doubt that there will be people who want to show up at that event, and will take the lead from the man, himself, and drop their guard.

and could subject themselves to covid-19. but the fact of the matter is we've got joe biden coming into town tomorrow. i know that they are scrupulously following the science. they want to keep their supporters and the general public safe. and whether you're going to one event on wednesday, or the other on thursday, i'm going to do everything i can to keep the people of this state safe. whether they're supportive of all the measures we've taken or not, my job's to protect the people of this state. >> and what happens the next time president trump wants to come to michigan, hold an event? he is the president. you know, there -- there's no -- nothing to stop somebody. can other people hold huge events, like this? >> well, let me just give you a quick example. there's a state legislator here, in michigan, who apparently according to reports, attended an anti-mask event, maskless. and got covid-19, himself. meant that the state senate couldn't even meet until a certain amount of time had passed. and so, this is still very real. it is still very present in my

state. it is still very present across the country. we still, six months in, don't have a national strategy around testing or ppe or mask wearing. and that's why the nation's governors, like my friend mike dewine, just to the south of me in ohio, and me and all the the rest of us to lead the way here. and that's why we got to keep following the science, and doing what we need to do to protect our people, until we have a president who is going to come up with a national strategy. >> how do you see the -- the race in -- in michigan? >> well, i -- i've always said the race -- the -- the road to the white house goes right through the state of michigan. that, i believe this race is tightening up. we've seen polling to that effect. and i'm not surprised by it. i think that's precisely why you see both of the candidates here in this state, this week. and why i would anticipate seeing them many more times between now and election day. michigan is a state of voters, who are -- are hurting. we need to have leadership, who is focused on getting us back to work. and keeping us safe, in the

process. and so, i think the big question people are going to ask is, are you better off, today, than you were four years ago? and for the working class in this state and across the country, the answer is unequivocally, no, and i think that's why this is a year we are going to make a big change. but no one should take michigan for granted i know how hard we're working. >> governor whitmer, appreciate your time. thank you. >> thank you. >> just ahead, sanjay gupta's back along with researcher william haseltine to talk about the president's vaccine claims. the facts and the breaking news that one big vaccine trial is now on hold. >> senator tammy duckworth joins me talking about the many reports now on the president's showing contempt for the troops. ♪ go go go ♪

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president spoke tonight about the growing number of reports starting with jeffrey goldberg's account in the atlantic for his alleged contempt for the troops. >> they make this stuff up. they make it up. they make stuff. it's called disinformation. they give a phony deal out. they did it two days ago with the military because nobody loves the military more than me. >> we have new reporting just ahead tonight on how rattled the president is by the atlantic piece. first, though, we are joined by senator tammy duckworth, democrat of illinois, who lost both legs in iraq. she signed an open letter along with dozens of other current and former members of the military. that calls for a presidential apology, while adding that none

would suffice. so, senator duckworth, you signed this open letter. and the very notion of doing something he will never meet, committing to a cause is beyond his comprehension. i'm astonished people would doubt the quotes attributed to the atlantic article and cnn and associated press and "washington post" and even fox news, now. i mean, he labels people losers and suckers all the time. he's disparaged mccain, his genera generals, constantly. >> right. so, even if you didn't address the issues with what was said in the atlantic article, he has said many other things that have really undermined the morale of our military men and women. and not to mention, things that he's done, personally, to include not showing up at that world war ii ceremony, himself, when other members of his own administration were there. not to mention, the fact that he has pardoned special operators

who committed war crimes. so even if you set aside the atlantic article, which of course nobody disbelieves because this is very consistent with who donald trump is. he's done a number of other things that are very consistent, that shows that he is not fit to be commander in chief. >> right. by the way, those special operators charged with war crimes. the people testifying against them were the -- many of the -- the service members serving under them or with them. it wasn't as if this was some politically correct group of, you know, attorneys, just suing a special operator. this was people in the person's own unit, often. i want to read part of jeffrey goldberg's article. it says in a 2018 white house planning meeting for such an event, trump asked his staff not to include wounded veterans on grounds that spectators would feel uncomfortable in the presence of amputees. quote, nobody wants to see that, he said. end quote. again, i mean, the president's denied the recording in tportin article. do you think he can even remotely comprehend what you and other wounded veterans have --

have been through? i mean, somebody, obviously, who has gone to great lengths not to serve. and, you know, the very idea of service of that sort is -- i mean, it's like speaking a foreign language to him. >> it is like a foreign language to him. as -- as sully said, the man does not recognize courage because he's a coward. he has never done anything that was a service, in something greater than himself. he is a transactional, narcissistic, egotistical human being, who thinks only about himself, first, and foremost. and what is in it for him. so he can never understand the sacrifices of the men and women and their families, who serve in our nation's military. and why they are willing to serve for a cause greater than themselves because he's never done that and he never will. >> right. and -- and -- i mean, i -- i'm always stunned by, you know, on the one hand, he says no one's been better for the military and cares more about the military. but the same token, again, he has publicly, constantly, said,

you know, that his generals just want to go to war. you know, he -- he's -- he loved his generals, until he actually met those generals, and they started advising him. and he, then, came to not like any of them. and now, has disparaged general mattis. disparages kelly. mcmaster. you know, the president, again, just took a swipe at the late senator john mccain, yesterday, and referred to himself, you know, saying he would probably be a better warrior than anybody if they went to war. i mean, this is -- you know, maybe -- you know, he -- he wore a uniform at a military academy that was a high school that he got -- that he went to because he was a problem student. i mean, the idea that, you know, he used bone spurs to avoid, you know, active duty in vietnam. >> it's why i call him cadet bone spurs. the highest rank he ever reached in the military was ka decadet. and he used bone spurs, a lie about bone spurs, in order to draft dodge. and frankly, he's not fit to be

commander in chief of our nation's military for another minute. and why he disparages those generals is because, for the first time, he actually had people who would stand up to him. and he loves them until they stand up to him and say, no, sir. i mean, that's what you are supposed to do as a military leader. you put the welfare and wellbeing of your troops ahead of everything. you watch out for them. you put them first. because, someday, you may have to ask the unthinkable, which is to ask them cross a line of departure and engage our nation's enemies. and in order to be able to do that, you must value them, above all else. and care for them, above all else. this is something the president has never done. by the way, when he said he's better for the troops than any other president, yet another in a series of long lies he's made -- he's said as president of the united states. he has not been better for the troops. in fact, many things he is taking credit for were taken by caucus. two real veterans. two real war heroes.

>> the president said over the weekend that soldiers, quote, in love with him and that, quote, the top people in the pentagon probably aren't because they want to do nothing but fight wars so that all those wonderful companies that make the bombs and make the planes and make everything else stay happy. end quote. i mean, the idea that it's soldiers who want to fight all the wars. and, you know, the people who are serving in endless wars, the people who are taking multiple tour, after tour after tour, they are not the ones making the decisions. it is the president making the decisions. it's ironic that, you know, he is considering -- you know, he likes to boast about beefing up military hardware and selling arms overseas. and yet, it's -- suddenly, now, it's the military industrial complex. >> right. and remember, this is the president who -- who picked a lobbyist for a defense company,

wraith y raytheon. but bottom line, he is the one who appointed a defense industry lobbyist to be his secretary of defense. at the same time, by the way, "military times" just had a poll just last week that showed that, for the first time, the majority of the troops, if they are asked today to vote, would not vote for donald trump. >> senator duckworth, appreciate your time. thank you. >> coming up next, former presidential candidate, howard dean. the story is personal for him, as well. he lost a brother in vietnam. we'll be right back. (vo) verizon knows how to build unlimited right. start with america's most awarded network. i'm on my phone 24/7. (vo) then, for the first time ever, include disney+, hulu, and espn+. we're a big soccer family. "handmaid's tale." i love "frozen." (vo) then give families plans to mix and match so you only pay for what you need. you get so much more, and it's a great network. (vo) with plans starting at just $35. plus, get up to $1,000 off our best phones when you switch. the network more people rely on gives you more. that's verizon.

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♪ the big events are back. xfinity is your home for the return of live sports. acosta at the white house. got some breaking news from the

fallout from this atlantic article that quoted multiple sources. jim, what are you learning tonight about what trump advisers are saying tonight about the story? >> yeah, anderson, what these advisers are saying and i talked to three different advisers this evening. they are saying unless some of these sources that are mentioned in the atlantic story. you know, the -- the story that was very damaging to the president, initially. describing him as using crude terms to talk about american war dead, over in france, in 2018. that, unless these sources come forward, that there's not going to be much impact. that the story is going to lose some of its punch. i talked to one adviser earlier this evening, who said, you know, if these sources were going to come forward, they would have done so by now. and another adviser said if you had somebody like retired general john kelly, retired general james mattis, not saying they are the sources in the story but if a name like that, a marquee name were to come out

and speak against the president, then it would have some impact. but at this point, they believe the president's going to be able to weather the storm. unless, of course, there's some other shoe to drop. i will say, anderson, there is a recognition inside trump world that this was damaging to the president. one adviser likened this atlantic story to the access hollywood video that came out in 2016. >> yeah. i mean, earlier today, there was also reporting that the president, himself, was rattled by -- by what came out in the atlantic. >> absolutely. and that's what we are hearing from our sources. you know, the president was definitely stressed out about this. and saw this as potentially damaging, among veterans and military voters. that is a key voting block for the president. we see the president talking to those kinds of voters all the time. and when i was at the press conference, the labor day press conference with the president, yesterday, i mean, you could see the disgust written all over his face. he obviously was in a mood to lash out over the story. now, that is where the president gets into trouble. as we saw yesterday, he kind of overstepped in his disgust.

you know, being registered about that atlantic story. and went on to trash his generals at the pentagon, saying they are only interested in -- in starting wars so they can sell -- so defense contractors can sell bombs and planes, and so on. but, at this point, when you talk to people inside trump world, yes, they can see that, initially, this story was damaging. they feel as though that these generals, if they're the sources, if they're, indeed, the sources behind this story, that they essentially need to put up or shut up. or else, they don't see very much lasting damage from this t atlantic story, anderson. >> we'll see. jim acosta, appreciate it. thanks very much. joining me now, former democratic presidential candidate and former vermont governor, howard dean. also, cnn political correspondent, abby phillip. governor dean, i want to read something you tweeted after the piece was published. my brother was captured and executed by the north vietnamese on december 14th, 1974.

captured and killed in laos during the war. it's obviously very personal for you. were you surprised, though, by the reports of what this president is alleged to have said, given all the public comments he -- he has made, on record? >> i wasn't surprised. let me just say. i almost never use bad language on twitter. but like i came to appreciate what was going on over there, because i went to laos around 2000, and spent a week with a joint task force. sifting sides of mountains for teeth and dog tags of people, american soldiers, who crashed into the mountains and were obliterated. so this wasn't just about my brother. it was also about all the american soldiers of every color and race and so forth and so on who were over there trying to find -- find the remains of these people. and for trump to spit all over them, just made me furious. it just disgusted me. and i'm pretty disgusted at trump, anyway.

this is about as low as you can possibly go. those people sacrificed for america. trump does nothing but collect taxpayers' money for his own benefit. >> abby, you know, jim acosta was just saying that people, you know, some people, trump advisers, people in trump world, you know, are trying to push the idea that this story would -- will lose impact, unless some of the sources go public. i actually think, you know, you could look at general kelly's silence, general mattis's silence, as, you know, honorable people, caught between not wanting to, you know, publicly divulge things that the president, you know, said to them, one on one. and -- and yet, not wanting to publicly deny something he did say. >> yeah. their silence actually speaks volumes. and it probably explains a lot of why president trump is so angry about this story. is that he knows that there are a lot of people out there, who are not coming to his defense. so that really is getting under his skin. but, you know, while the

president's advisers might think that people coming on the record is the only thing that will make the story stick. i'm not sure that's the case. i think the reason they believe this isn't going to stick is because, in the past, president trump has said things just like this, on the record. he said it about john mccain. and then, he was elected president of the united states. he got through charlottesville. the access hollywood tape that jim just mentioned. he was elected president of the united states. so the lesson that he takes away and that his advisers take away is that nothing will penetrate that. but the fact that the president is so rattled by this. it really does tell you that there is a fear, somewhere in there, that this could hurt him enough that he might actually lose. and there's really nothing, anderson, that he fears more than losing. >> governor dean, do you believe it -- it -- it really endangers the president? i mean, to abby's point. you know, i went back, just today, looking at when -- when trump made those comments during the campaign about john mccain

for the first time. saying he is not a war hero. i like people who don't get captured. you know, people were writing, oh, he's just lost it. this is devastating for him. and it had -- didn't seem to have any impact on it. >> this is worse. and the reason it's worse is that there are literally millions of people who have been in the position of some of the people he was talking about. and to call soldiers, who are giving their lives to the united states of america, losers. think how many veterans there are in this country. think what they went through and what they sacrificed. >> but hasn't he weakened trust in, i mean, all the reporting institutions? all the, you know, i mean, hasn't he been effective in, basically, inoculating himself just by saying, well, you know, this is all just fake. this is misinformation. this is what they do. >> i don't think so. and i'll tell you my theory about all this. the reason i thought bernie sanders was going to be the nominee after his very strong start. the reason i think the democratic voters voted for joe biden is they're tired of the

circus. and they just want somebody to not be polarizing. they want somebody to -- to just be a normal human being again. and they're sick of trump's ridiculous self, being in love with himself. they just can't stand it, anymore. and when you take that out on the group of people that's probably sacrificed more for the united states of america than any other group of people, you're a loser. and that is what trump is. trump is a loser and he's going to lose. the only way trump wins is to cheat. i don't think it's going to work. you know, i do a lot of work in eastern european democracies. and what we tell people is the only way you can be cheating, which goes on a fair amount in former soviet republics, is just to have a huge turnout. that's what we are going to do is have a huge turnout and i don't think trump's cheating is going to overcome that. >> abby, it's also remarkable, the president, suddenly, now discussing the military

industrial complex. and saying that, you know, his generals just -- you know, they want to wage wars in order to boost profits of defense manufacturing companies. his secretary of defense is former lobbyist for raytheon. the idea that this is something that president trump is concerned about. i mean, he talks about weapon sales to saudi arabia. and they do back flips in order to sell weapons to a whole variety of places. >> sometimes, it's because they really don't make any sense. his comments about the military wanting to buy bombs and weapons because they want to go to -- they want to go to foreign wars all the time that he is trying to stop. don't jive with his own comments. even today, just tonight, at his rally in north carolina, he was bragging, in a military state, about building up the military. about securing billions of dollars in funding for those very same planes and bombs. the president was lashing out in a moment of frustration and anger. but the way that he did it, to

try to almost draw a wedge between military brass and rank and file is counterproductive to him. it only reinforces the narrative that the president is at war with the -- the very government of the united states, itself. that can't be helpful to him. i think his advicers knsers kno and that's why you saw the chief of staff, mark meadows, trying to walk this back, somehow. trying to claim the president is somehow concerned about the military industrial complex, by all accounts, he's been pretty supportive of the last four years. >> and governor, reported this year, you know, a swing state possibly. there are a lot of states reportedly in play that the president won in 2016. do you think he can keep them? states like north carolina, georgia, florida? >> it's too early to tell. i'm pretty optimistic. you know, i saw a shocking number the other day, which showed that he was ahead by one point. biden was ahead by one point in texas. we now find, today, 43 to 43 for

the united states senate in alaska. so the republicans are in a lot of trouble. and i think the reason they are in trouble is because they have put loyalty to trump, over loyalty to their country. just as trump -- to criticize the veterans. i can't imagine somebody saying something like that. there will be hardliners. i've got a whole bunch of them on twitter saying you don't really believe those stories. i've been fact checked by the atlantic. they'd call my grandmother if they had any doubts. and she's been dead for about 35 years. i mean, these -- these guys do not fiddle around with fact checking. so, yeah, those stories are absolutely true. and i think there's a percentage of trump followers who are going to say, enough is enough, i can't do it, anymore. >> governor howard dean, appreciate it. abby phillip as well. thank you so much. joe biden sits down with cnn's jake tapper for an exclusive interview later this week. don't miss the lead with jake tapper. that's thursday, 4:00 p.m. eastern, for the biden interview. up next, we have breaking news as the u.s. coronavirus

death toll approaches 190,000, a major drug manufacturer has put a hold on its vaccine trials. the reason, when we continue. i'm hector. i'm a delivery operations manager in san diego, california. we've had a ton of obstacles in finding ways

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some more breaking news. as we reported at the top of the program, drugmaker astrazeneca has temporarily halted vaccine trials because of an unexpected illness in one volunteer. it's standard precaution, all the company's trials are on hold. as the death toll approaches 190,000. as for when a vaccine might be available in the u.s., i want to again play a portion of that interview dr. fauci gave to pbs's judy woodruff. >> i think that's unlikely. i mean, the only way you can see that scenario come true is if that there are so many infections in the clinical trial sites, that you get a efficacy answer, sooner than you would have projected. like i said, it's not impossible, judy. but it's unlikely that we'll have a definitive answer, at that time. more likely, by the end of the year. >> dr. sanjay gupta's back with

us. i want to welcome will kwliam haseltine. former professor of public health. author of a covid back to school guide. frankly, even end of the year is -- is incredibly accelerated schedule. >> yeah. i mean, that -- that -- that's the thing is, even all things considered, that would be an accelerated schedule. i think the point that dr. fauci was making, here, was that, ultimately, you know, you're going to have two groups of people. you are going to have people who receive the vaccine. you're going to have people who receive the placebo. and you have got to show there's a significant difference between the two groups. so let's just say there's 10,000 people, in each group. and if the rate of infection is one per 10,000, roughly, which is what it is in this country, per day. within a few days, maybe you'd have three infections in the placebo group and none in the vaccinated group. would that be enough to say this thing definitively works? i mean, that's the sort of numbers they're going to have to

be dealing with. what fauci was saying, he said this to me before, is suddenly, if you had a significant number of infections in the placebo group and none in the vaccinated group. then, maybe, that would be enough of a signal. but he doesn't anticipate that happening. and that's just one of the reasons why it could take a lot longer to actually get this vaccine authorized. >> and, sanjay, a source in the white house specifically mentioned you by name according to "the washington post." saying they would share data with you about the vaccine, ahead of time. do you think that's a good idea? >> well, i mean -- >> i know you're not going to turn down. >> transparency is a good idea. you know, i'd probably call bill haseltine and ask him what he thought, for sure. but i think the idea that they're -- they're wanting to have more transparency with this and if they are saying, hey, look. journalists, you know, come in. people on the outside come in. new england journal of medicine editor, come in and look at this. i mean, i think it does, you know, give me some more confidence that, you know, that

transparency would be there. so i would, certainly, take that opportunity. and report on it and, you know, i think it's a pandemic. everybody in the world needs to know about this data. >> professor haseltine, nine vaccine makers, now, have issued a joint pledge, today, vowing not to cut safety corners in order to get a vab seccine out faster. is that reassuring to you? because the other night, you said you absolutely would not get a vaccine in november. does that influence your decision? even if it's this fall? >> let me say a couple of things. first, the news that there was a serious adverse reaction, that halted the trial of one of the most promising vaccines, one that we've heard a lot about, is exactly why you have to take things carefully with vaccines. they're not toys. if you have one out of a thousand adverse reactions, and you give the vaccine to a billion people. you have a million people with those reactions. this isn't the only vaccine that's had serious, adverse reactions. one of them, there were four out of 30 that had severe adverse

reactions. that's one step worse than one that started -- stopped this whole trial. a rush to a vaccine, without due caution, is a very dangerous thing. what about the pledge? i read that pledge, carefully, and i see a major hedge in that. it's what they didn't say. you didn't see the ceo of these major pharmaceutical companies saying we will assure the public that the vaccine that we deliver you is as safe as any vaccine we have ever made. they didn't say that. they didn't use their own credibility. they said we will assure you that we will follow what the fda or some similar organization tells us. that's a big, big difference. they're not guaranteeing their quality assurance. they are telling you to trust the fda. well, we've seen that there's

certain cases, in which you may doubt what the fda is doing. so, that was a major hedge. so, the short answer to your question is, no, it doesn't change my mind. >> sanjay, i mean, what -- what about professor haseltine's point and, also, i mean, the fact is, you know, the fda has been -- i'm trying to use -- figure out the best way to describe it. but, at the very least, you know, the good work that they have done, in the past, suddenly now, gets called into question. or, you know, their word, moving forward, gets called into question. same with the cdc because of what's happened just over the last couple of months. and things like the cdc, you know, kowtowing to president trump on guidelines and the fda. you know, the head of the fda had to come out and apologize and reverse himself on something he claimed under pressure from trump. >> yeah. i mean, that's really -- it's very worrisome. i mean, there's no question

about it. i can't believe i even have to say that because, you know, these are some institutions that, for a long time, we've had a lot of respect for the cdc and the fda. and to be fair, there is a lot of people within these institutions, who are and i talk to them on a regular basis and they're incredibly frustrated as well, but i think to your point, you can't take these things in a bubble. the fda creating an emergency use authorization for hydroxychloroquine was a mistake. i mean, they rescinded it, but they did do it in the first place, and that obviously gives a lot of people pause. they exaggerated, as you pointed out, the data around convalescent serum and had to be called out on that. that was a concern as well. the cdc most recently coming out and saying no need to test asymptomatic people. i think what we do right now, independent sort of review of this material is more important for that very reason, anderson. >> according to the american academy of pediatrics, more than

500,000 kids in the u.s. diagnosed with covid-19. 16 cases reported in the last two weeks. what do you expect the numbers to be two weeks from now? >> and they'll be still higher many weeks from now as kids go back to school. that's really an unfortunate situation. but it's something that's going to happen. >> sanjay, professor haseltine, as always, appreciate your time. the wildfires in california have burned through more than 2 million acres. that is a new record. shows no signs of letting up. report from the front lines ahead. ♪ oh, oh, oh, ozempic®! ♪

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that's for sure. my name is zach and i'm on biktarvy. biktarvy is a complete, one-pill, once-a-day treatment . . . . . . used for hiv in certain adults. it's not a cure but with one small . . . . . . pill, biktarvy fights hiv . . . . . . to help you get to and stay undetectable. that's when the amount of virus is so low it cannot be measured by a lab test. serious side effects can occur, including kidney problems and kidney failure. rare, life-threatening side effects include a build-up of lactic acid and liver problems. do not take biktarvy if you take dofetilide or rifampin. tell your doctor about all the medicines and supplements you take, if you are pregnant or breastfeeding . . . . . . or if you have kidney or liver problems, including hepatitis. if you have hepatitis b, do not stop taking biktarvy without talking to your doctor. common side effects were diarrhea, nausea, and headache. if you're living with hiv . . . . . . keep loving who you are. and ask your doctor if biktarvy is right for you.

troubling news from california tonight. since mid-august wildfires have torched a record breaking 2.3 million acres. it is not yet height fire season. dan simon is on the scene tonight. >> reporter: it all looks the same after a while. a burned down house, charred trees, but each pile of destruction represents another person, another family whose lives are being upended by california's historic wildfires. the new devastation hitting the sierra national forest in central california part of the growing creek fire. dozens of campers and hielkers were trapped in the forest.

>> there's fire on all sides all around us, all the roads. >> reporter: the only roads out were blocked by the intense flames. military helicopters were eventually able to rescue them. 25 major wildfires are currently burning across the state. including three at the top four largest in california history. a record 2.2 million acres have burned this year with fears that at worst is still to come. wildfire season usually peaks in obligation. >> holy -- >> just keep going. >> reporter: the fires this year have been mainly fueled by lightning strikes, in previous year downed power lines. in this newest round, you can add at least one oddity to the mix. a pyrotechnic device from a so-called gender reveal party. the unfortunate stunned forces evacuations in los angeles and torching more than 10,000 acres. >> after the fire began, family attempted suppression on their own.

they tried to use water bottles in 4-foot-high grass you're never going to capture a grass fire with that. >> and dan you're in central california, where it's the creek fire. authorities say, i mean, it's causing unprecedented disaster for that area. it's incredible how far this thing has spread. >> reporter: anderson, this fire is just devastating these small mountain towns here in central california. names like big creek and huntington lake and shaber lake where i am. you can see the damage behind me. this as was a 116-year-old general store called crestman's. it had been here since 1904. gone last night. we were here yesterday. the whole area pristine. now take a look at it. a smokey mess. this wildfire is destined to be one of the largest wildfires in state history. keep in mind, it's only just a few days old. at this point, we're talking 145,000 acres charred. it is 0% contained. i will say that today the

temperatures were cooler. it actually feels pretty nice out here, but this area is under a red flag warning. more wind expected tonight which, of course, could fuel more fires. anderson? >> those firefighters are heroic and got to be exhausted and still long days and weeks ahead. dan, appreciate it. thanks very much. reminder, don't miss "full circle," our digital news show that gives us a chance to dig into important topics, have in-depth conversations. streaming live this week wednesday and friday at 6:00 p.m. eastern. c cnn.com/fullcircle. watch it there and the cnn app any time ondemand. news continues. want to hand it over for chris cuomo for "prime time." i am chris cuomo. welcome to "prime time." and welcome back. labor day is gone. school is back in session. no, it isn't, right? not in too many places. a major failing by our leaders. i'm going to talk a lot about the election tonight. we're eight weeks out.

but let's just talk about what matters most, okay? our families. parents are burdened. and the people that we say we want to do the most and the best for, our kids, are getting screwed. and yet the failure to control cases, to push for rapid testing, that's the key, so we can best monitor cases in close to real time and then get resources where they're needed. still don't have it. eight weeks until the election, but eight months into this pandemic. now that matters. that matters, who lies, who doesn't lie, what are they promising, what are they not promising? who's worse? me or somebody on some other network. all of that is noise. that's politics. this matters. you know it in your own house. i know it in mine. and that failure, our president and his administration, and,