new garlique healthy blood pressure formula helps maintain healthy blood pressure with a custom blend of ingredients. i'm taking charge, with garlique. good evening. we've reported for months about how the president downplayed the coronavirus. said it would disappear, that it was under control. well, tonight, you will hear confirmation of all that reporting, and far more than that. you will hear the president admitting he downplayed the virus. he knew it was far more deadly than he let on, and he knew it far earlier than the public. people say lives have been lost but they haven't been lost. they're dead.

190,000 americans are dead. and the president lied to us, when it really mattered. when action could have been taken, based on the information the president had, that would have saved lives. and in case you're wondering how many lives, the number is simply heartbreaking. researchers at columbia university estimate that instituting social distancing, just one week sooner, would have prevented at least 36,000 deaths. two weeks sooner could have prevented 84% of all fatalities. in a moment, you will hear the president's own words, taken from many conversations of key moments, over many months, with "the washington post's" bob woodward. and yes, those conversations were recorded and you will hear them. everything you will hear him say tonight, he volunteered including his warning to woodward but not to the public, that covid was transmitted through the air, and far deadlier than the flu. he said it during what's come to be known as the lost month. when he could have mobilized the government and the public, and as you saw, saved lives. he could have but didn't.

february 7th is when he said that to woodward, the beginning of what was the lost month. and now, he is saying he was downplaying the threat to avoid a panic. that's what he is saying today, as if we've all simply forgotten those rallies he held at the time. and everything else he was saying about not wanting his numbers to go up. whatever the president's motivation, the fact is hearing the truth didn't panic the people of south korea, which has seen just 21,000 cases and only 344 deaths in the last six months. no one panicked in germany or in canada, two other countries that have done far better than we have. still, the president, now, says he did what he did, in service of the greater good. which is also what he told bob woodward, back in march. he didn't want to panic people. you'll hear it straight from the president, tonight, as well as his thoughts on, quote, my f'ing generals, as he calls them. also, the president talking about a secret nuclear weapons system that he claims we have been developing, and more. in all the pages of woodward's new book, "rage."

cnn special correspondent jimmy gangel will be joining us tonight with the truth. so, jimmy, what was the president telling bob woodward? talk about what he was telling him about the coronavirus in early february. >> so, this is february 7th, anderson, when, you know, we were thinking about the virus in china. this was very, very early on. and just to point out, the president agreed to this being taped. all of these 18 interviews were recorded. and what he says is he gives woodward striking detail about how much he knew but wasn't telling the public. here's part of the interview. >> and so, what was president xi saying yesterday? >> well, we were talking, mostly, about the -- the virus. and i think he's going to have it in good shape. but, you know, it's a very tricky situation. it's -- >> indeed, it is. >> it goes through air, bob.

that's always tougher than the touch. you know, the touch. you don't have to touch things, right? but the air, you just breathe the air. and that's how it's passed. and so, that's a very tricky one. that's a very delicate one. it's, also, more deadly than your, you know, your -- even your strenuous flus. you know, people don't realize we lose 20,000, 30,000 people a year here. who would ever think that, right? i mean, pretty amazing. and then, i say is that the same thing? this is more deadly. this is 5 -- you know, this is 5% versus 1% or less than 1%. so this is deadly stuff. >> so, anderson, so much of what he said there is striking because we did not know this, at the time. but i want to point to two things. first, that it was airborne. this coming from the president, who is still mocking people who wear masks.

and second, that he understands that it is so much more deadly than the normal flu because, during the same period of time, he's absolutely saying, oh, it's just another flu. so it's just a striking contrast to what he's saying, publicly. >> yeah, i mean, saying that it's -- acknowledging -- airborne and -- which was, you know, discussed, questioned, but not known, for sure, at the time. the president knew. and deadlier, far deadlier, than the flu. he was having rallies, indoor rallies, after this, with no social distancing. no masks. very different than what the president was saying publicly about the virus, at the time. >> right. absolutely. so just to remind people, to give it some context, we've put together some sound of exactly what the president was telling the public. when he was saying something quite different to bob woodward. here's that. >> i think the virus is going to be -- it's going to be fine.

you know, in april, supposedly, it dies with the hotter weather. and that's a beautiful date to look forward to. >> we have it, very much, under control in this country. >> people are getting better. they're all getting better. there's a very good chance you're not going to die. in fact, we're very close to a vaccine. >> this is a flu. this is like a flu. of the 15 people, the original 15 as i call them, eight of them have returned to their homes. we're going down, not up. we're going very substantially down, not up. and again, when you have 15 people and the 15, within a couple of days, is going to be down to close to zero, that's a pretty good job we've done. >> it's going to disappear, one day. it's like a miracle. it will disappear. >> well, it hasn't disappeared. and woodward's book paints just a devastating portrait. he has so many details about a january 28th, top-secret briefing, where the president is told all of this. and he just describes it as a

betrayal of trust. >> in -- in march, the president told woodward he wanted to downplay the virus to the american people. >> right. so, first, we have february 7th. where he gives woodward all these details. then, on march 19th, in another interview that was recorded, he says two things that are pretty shocking. first, remember, he kept saying that young people wouldn't be affected by this. children, even in august, august 5th i think, he said children are immune. so he tells woodward something quite different. and then, in the second part of this, you hear him admitting that he is concealing this. here is the tape. >> now, it's starting out it's not just old people, bob. just today and yesterday, some startling facts came out. it's not just old -- older people. to plenty of young people. >> so give me a moment of

talking to somebody. going through this with fauci or somebody who kind of -- it caused a pivot in your mind because it's clear, just from what's in -- on the public record, that you went through a pivot on this. to, oh, my god, the gravity is almost inexplicable and unexplainable. >> well, i think, bob, really, to be honest with you. >> sure, i want you to be. >> i wanted to -- i wanted to always play it down. i still like playing it down. >> yes. >> because i don't want to create a panic. >> but i understand this wasn't just about panic, first of all. as you pointed out earlier, plenty of other countries dealt with this. nobody panicked. if you want to talk about panic, 190,000 americans dead. that's a much bigger thing. americans dealt with 9/11.

after pearl harbor. they dealt with world war ii. to say that this was about preventing panic or calming people down is -- is simply outrageous. >> it's no secret that the president and dr. fauci have often disagreed publicly when it comes to the virus. fauci has basically, it seems like, been sidelined. what does he tell about his views on the president? >> so, throughout the book, he's quoted. there is a lot of detail and direct quotes. and what he says -- what woodward reports fauci says about trump. that his leadership is rudderless. that his attention span is like a minus number. and that his sole purpose is to get re-elected. i should say that dr. fauci did an interview, today, in which he said he didn't recall this. i just want to remind people,

again, with their permission, bob woodward is known to record all of these interviews. these were very specific quotes in the book. >> jamie, stay with us. i want to bring in our chief medical correspondent, dr. sanjay gupta. also, dr. craig spencer, who served on the front lines during the very worst of the outbreak here. he is director of global health and emergency medicine at new york's columbia university medical center, as well as an ebola survivor. sanjay, president trump's decision to downplay the virus, for whatever reason. whether it was to avoid causing panic, as he is claiming. or if it was to avoid hurting his re-election chances. or that he was panicking and he didn't know what to do. i mean, it cost lives. as we referenced earlier and i saw you talking about this, earlier today. you know, if he had been honest with the american people. or if he had even just implemented mitigation efforts or encouraged governors to implement mitigation efforts, early on, lives could have been saved.

>> yeah. i mean, there's no question. i mean, that -- that's the striking -- there's a lot of striking things about what jamie has just reported. but that -- the idea that, you know, as you reference, there's countries around the world that didn't have anything we didn't have. they didn't have a vaccine or some sort of magic therapeutic. and they measured their death counts in the teens or hundreds, not the hundreds of thousands. let's show it again. because this is a model that came out of dr. spencer's home in university of columbia. if you had just done some of these mitigation techniques a week earlier, just a week earlier, and this was in may when this modeling was done. remember, the mitigation efforts went into place mid-march. if they had been the first week of march, 36,000 lives, at that point, could have been saved. just gives you an idea of how much of an impact earlier, sort of mar of, measures could have had. two weeks earlier, 84% of the deaths, according to this model, could have been prevented. you know, it is really remarkable to me to hear that --

those tapes, now. and hear that he -- he knew this. you know, when you are looking at these viruses, there's two things you want to know. are they very contagious? are they very lethal? lot of people, in the very beginning, weren't sure. he, on february 7th, definitively knew it and even gave a number to bob woodward. it's five times more lethal than the flu. >> and, dr. spencer, it's not just the president of the united states was downplaying the virus. it's that we know, also, we have seen it, with our own eyes. he has pressured the fda, the cdc, other institutions, to go along with downplaying the virus. downgrading the guidelines. cdc downgrading the guidelines on how schools should reopen. not putting out guidelines, or having guidelines held back. having to change guidelines because the president was threatening them. the fda. the head of the fda having to apologize for misleading information, that he gave, you know, at -- at the behest of the president. about -- you know, about plasma

therapy. i mean, you were on the front lines in new york, battling the virus at its peak, when as many as 800 people were dying a day in new york, you were out there trying to save lives. what do you make of what you have heard from the president, now? >> to be honest, anderson, i'm furious because you want to talk about panic and wanting to reduce panic? i think of the panic of every single family i called on face time to let them know their family member was dying or had died. and i think about that multiplied by 190,000 times, already, around this country. as a frontline provider, i am furious because many of those deaths didn't need to happen if we took the right steps, early on, and got prepared like we needed to. and the president clearly knew we needed to. as a public health professional, i'm furious because this is just another instance, from the outset, where the president has undermined public health professionals, has contradicted our messaging. there's always that, since the beginning, people didn't know where to go to get trusted truth on coronavirus. how to protect themselves, how to protect their family. it created a situation where

people were just misled, given misinformation, and quite honestly, as a public health person, as a public health professional, the lies and the mistruths that are coming from the president's mouth and the president's twitter feed on a near-daily basis are almost impossible for us, public health professionals, to keep up with and correct. >> i think that's such an important point you make. the panic in, you know, a person's voice when they know that their husband or their child or their grandparent or their best friend has been -- >> indescribable. >> -- is dead. that is panic that doesn't go away. that's not -- i mean, it's not as if -- that's just -- sanjay -- >> it's not just the families, too, it's the providers. it's everybody. it's not just individuals that are grieving. it's a whole country that is grieving. we have -- you know, we have 25% of the world's cases and deaths. we're supposed to be the best and most prepared country in the world. and we have failed on this, from day one, because of the president's apparent misdirection in trying to prevent panic. we have created more panic than was necessary, if we just took

this serious, from day one. >> sanjay, i want to play an exchange that you had with president trump, back in february, about the virus. >> the flu in comparison to coronavirus. flu has a fatality ratio of about .1%. this has a fatality ratio somewhere between 2 and 3%. >> we think. we don't know exactly. and the flu is higher than that. the flu is much higher than that. >> there's more people who get the flu but this is spreading and it's going to spread, maybe, within communities. does that worry you? because that seems to be -- >> no. no, because we're ready for it. it is what it is. we're ready for it. we're really prepared. >> it is what it is. by the way, it is what it is. you only say it is what it is when something is -- there's nothing you can do about it. it is what it is. the president of the united states could have done something about it. he just chose not to. he chose to downplay it. so, for him to repeatedly say it

is what it is, is particularly galling when he is the president of the united states. i'm wondering, when you look at exchange, sanjay, now, what do you think? >> i mean, it has nagged at me, since that day, anderson. february 26th. when i -- i kept thinking to myself, does -- does he not know? because he just said to me that the flu is much worse. that was on february 26th. you just heard the tape, from february 7th, where he clearly conceded this -- this coronavir coronavirus was far more lethal than the flu. and he, again, even gave a number. five times more lethal than the flu. i mean, that -- that really -- it went from this idea that, look, maybe, was he not being briefed? he just didn't care so he wasn't even listening to what people were telling him. that's not the case. he knew. and at that time and -- and -- and many times since then, he has lied about this. he knows the truth. he lied about this. and as you know, anderson, i don't say that lightly. but that is -- that is definitely the case, here. and i should point out, as well, we are talking about this a

little bit like it's in the rear view mirror. we're still in the middle of this, right? we're sort of analyzing this. it's not over, by any means. these -- these bad decisions, these bad policies, are still ongoing. and people that are alive today, that don't really think that this is a big deal, are not going to be alive by the end of the year because of this. so this -- this absolutely needs to be -- this needs to be fixed. >> you know, jamie, after that interview with woodward, in which the president acknowledged the coronavirus is airborne, way worse than the flu. he held six more rallies. with tens of thousands of people, indoors. thousands of people indoors. tens of thousands. with no masks or social distancing. and -- and i mean, just look at his campaign event yesterday. he continues to -- to mock mask wearing, and put people's lives at risk. he's made mask wearing a political statement, which is the worst thing you can possibly do in the midst of a pandemic. >> it's inexplicable.

one of the things that woodward asked trump, in the book, is what do you think the most important job of being president is? and trump says, at first, he's not sure what to answer. and then, when he finally does, he said, well, it's to keep america safe and prosperous. he clearly has -- he clearly knew a lot about this. he didn't keep america safe. he continues down that road, with these inconsistent messages, with, you know, mocking masks. but i just want to point out the word -- the second thing he said is to make america prosperous. and when i first heard the tape, and he said he didn't want panic, what i really thought was that he was panicked about the economy and getting re-elected. >> right. which is -- i mean, he has repeatedly said, early on, remember, when he went to cdc i

think it was, and he said the thing about, you know, anybody wants a test can get one. he talked about my numbers. meaning, his -- his -- as if the number of people infected in the country were a barometer on him. and he didn't want his numbers to go up. dr. spencer, thank you for everything you've done and continue to do and for being with us tonight. sanjay, as well. sanjay, i'll see you tomorrow night for our next edition of our cnn town hall, coronavirus facts and fears. jamie gangel, we'll come back to you in our next segment. i want to turn now to cnn's jim acosta at the white house. jim, talk about the president's explanation for downplaying the virus, even when he knew it was airborne and how deadly it was. >> you were talking about it a few moments ago, anderson, the president was asked about these excerpts, earlier today. and he said, at one point, that he wanted to be a cheerleader. that he didn't want to create panic. anderson, he hasn't been a cheerleader. he's been a misleader. i mean, not giving people the

opportunity to prepare to deal with this virus is essentially what this president is guilty of, tonight. and in the name of not wanting people to panic. you know, anderson, you mentioned some of the things, just a few moments ago. the rallies. the masks. and so on. remember, during the spring, the president was urging his supporters to, essentially, storm state houses across the country and demand that their states be reopened. the president did that, with the full knowledge that this virus was worse than the flu. more deadly than the flu. he was saying, to bob woodward, as jamie gangel's been reporting, that this virus is not only dangerous for elderly people but for younger americans. and yet, the president has been advocating children to go back to the classroom. and so, the president tried to put up this excuse today that he didn't want people to panic that's been echoed by trump advisers, people inside the white house i have spoken to all day long. but that just glosses over months and months of lies, anderson. >> yeah. you know, winston churchill, you know, the dawn of -- the

beginning of world war ii didn't say, oh, there's no way the germans are going to come. there's no way they're going to -- you know, not going to -- there's no way they are going to fly planes over and bomb us. there's no way. you know, don't worry about this. it's just going to end. leaders, true leaders, rise to the occasion and are hospital with peopl honest with people. and you know what? american citizens can handle the truth. it's stunning to me that anybody would accept a president saying, oh, we just didn't want to panic people. yeah. you don't want to scream lies in a crowded theater which, essentially, frankly, this president has done, many times, in front of a large auditorium. but honesty and telling the truth. you know whethat? americans have been through tough times, before, and rise to the occasion. >> and, anderson, it's so much worse than that because he lulled half of this country into a false sense of security. he told his own supporters, millions of trump supporters around the country that the

scientists aren't to be trusted. remember, dr. fauci has said on repeated occasions, dr. anthony fauci who is on the task force, said on repeated occasions, he and his family have received death threats. they're being harassed because there are so many people whipped up in this -- in this mode of hostility again public health experts and scientists in this country. he's -- he's brought people out to rallies and had them sign waivers, essentially signing their good health away, to coax them into rallies so he can run his re-election campaign the way he sees fit. and, anderson, he is subjecting these people, time and again, to the coronavirus. we had a rally, for all intents and purposes, on the south lawn of the white house, for his republican national convention speech on the south lawn of the white house. as you remember, anderson, people were sitting shoulder to shoulder. even though the president, privately, was saying to bob woodward, he knew that this was a deadly virus. >> and six indoor rallies. correct me if i'm wrong. after saying to bob woodward that it's airborne and far deadlier. >> and that's just in the early

weeks of the pandemic. remember, there was that interim period where he didn't have rallies. and then, there was the rally in tulsa and these airport hangar rallies since then. so tens of thousands of people have been exposed at his own events. >> jim acosta. appreciate it. gloria borger. cnn political analyst, carl bernstein, also the legendary other half of woodward and bernstein. also, cnn's abby phillip. gloria, the president's justification, downplaying the virus, didn't want to create panic. fear. and, you know, he added, today, the last thing he wants to do is -- is show fear. fear is the trump campaign strategy. i mean, that is -- that is -- you know, he told woodward, himself, the last book, that real power is fear. that was the title of the last book. >> yeah. and he is running on fear in this campaign. talking about the mobs in major urban areas. >> so provoking fear and stirring fear is fine when it's his ends. >> of course, totally.

and i don't buy the argument, oh, i didn't want to create panic. this was a president -- it was very revealing to me, today, when he had his little press conference. and he said leadership is about confidence. and what he really meant, i think, if you read between the lines, is he didn't want to appear to be weak. the worst thing you could tell donald trump is you're weak. and he didn't want blame because what he was thinking about was they're going to blame me. and i've got to get re-elected. and i don't want to shut down the economy. and i don't want to do the things that, perhaps, science is telling me that i ought to do. so i'm going to look like i'm in control, even though it could cost people lives. i mean, it is transactional, to the nth degree, and it is outrageous for a president of the united states, who as jamie was saying before, says he wants to keep the country safe and prosperous. but you can't keep the country prosperous, unless you keep the country safe. and that is what he totally abdicated his responsibility,

here. >> carl, certainly, a lot of people wondering why the president would talk to bob woodward. you know, woodward had already come out with a book the white house quibbled with. and -- and yet, and i guess some within the white house suggested the president shouldn't do it. are you surprised that -- that woodward got the president to commit to 18 on-the-record interviews? and what do you make of the significance of what we heard, so far? >> not surprised because trump regretted not talking to woodward. or he said he regretted not talking to bob, after the last book. and trump is always thinking that he can charm anyone. well, he's not going to charm bob woodward. he's not going to charm a great reporter, who is going to check everything out, and who is going to talk to dozens and dozens of the president's aides, and find out what the real truth is. but let's just take a deep breath here about what we just heard on those tapes. these are the ultimate smoking-gun tapes in our history. we have listened to the

president of the united states commit, probably, the greatest felony by any president in our history. he sits there, in realtime, talking and covering up his absolute dereliction, in which he ignores the national security of the united states. ignores the health and safety of the people of this country. in which he, knowingly, covers up what can cause tens of thousands of deaths. there's never been a stunning moment captured on tape by a leader. these aren't the watergate tapes. this is something we've never had in our history. we've never had a president with this kind of attitude about the health and safety of the american people. willing, for his own re-election efforts, to just throw away lives. this is the ultimate felony. by a president of the united states. >> abby, it's interesting, you

know. what carl said is -- is interesting. if you think about, if this had been a foreign invasion coming, as the president has said it was. if this had been a hurricane coming, and the president had said, you know, at the time, to bob woodward, well, i don't want to -- i don't want to panic anybody about this hurricane. so i'm just going to say it's a category 1 or a tropical storm, and not really, you know, has the potential to really grow. no, we don't do that. we -- people are informed about what the potential is. and -- and people, again, rise to the occasion. do you think it makes any difference? i mean, so many times, this president's faced controversy, without real, political consequences. do you think it's going to be any different, this time? >> well, anderson, you know, as you're saying that, the sad part about what you just said is that we've actually had an example of the president trying to, you know, literally, sharpie his way into a different version of a hurricane map. >> i had forgotten about that. >> and this is a real thing that has actually happened, where the

president creates his own reality. the one that he thinks fits his re-election prospects or his political prospects, best. and this is just another version of that involving the coronavirus. the consequences of which, 190,000 people have lost their lives. but as far as whether this matters, i mean, you know, speaking to people around the president's campaign, in his campaign, you know, they kind of basically chocked this up to another bad news cycle. one of many, by the way, that he's had in several weeks. and that, after a couple of days, a couple of weeks, this is going to all blow away. this is the pattern that they are used to. since -- going back to 2016, that there is a cycle of controversy. and the president is able to either right de it out or anoth controversy comes their way. what's different, though, about this is that this is a crisis that is going to be with the american people for a long time. this is a once in a hundred year event in this country. it will be written about in the

history books. indeed, this is the first version of the history books. and i don't think that it's something that's just going to blow away. this is what the election is going to be about. and i think this one really is going to stick. >> gloria, president trump had two campaign events yesterday. bringing together hundreds of people, without masks, not social distancing. we know he holds rallies. he loves them. he feels like that was part of why he won in 2016. i don't know if that's an excuse or if he just really loves to perform and, you know, be able to tell the same stories he's told before and have people laugh. do you think in light of what he said on the woodward tape. well, i don't need to ask you this question, is he going to continue to do it? >> of course, he is. don't forget. look, anderson, this is a president who recently, maybe even last week, was retweeting conspiracy theories about the death toll from coronavirus. that it really wasn't as large as it is. so he -- what -- what's stunning is that i think, in some bizarre way, he was trying to impress

bob woodward with what he knew. but by doing that, he set himself up because it's very easy, if you go over the timeline, as you've been doing and jamie's been doing, that he was saying one thing to bob woodward. to tell him, oh, i know all this stuff. and on the other hand, lying to the american public. lying to the public. and saying, oh, it's just the flu. it's nothing. it's nothing else. and it's -- it's so striking because, of course, he will continue it. whether it'll make a difference in the election, we don't know, at this point. but this is people's lives and their livelihoods, here, that he's playing with. and i think it may be accepted differently by the american public. >> you know, carl, when former fbi director comey, james comey, was testifying before the senate intelligence committee back in 2017, he was asked about trump's tweets. suggesting that comey should hope there aren't tapes of their conversations. comey responded saying, oh, lordy, i hope there are tapes.

the woodward tapes don't give the president much room to deny anything. he's now reshaping this as he didn't want to have panic. i mean, what do you think he is going to do in the short-term, to get through this news cycle? >> don't know. he's going to be on hannity at 9:00 tonight. so that's his usual default is to go to fox news and spin out something. but i think, this time, we are also talking about something that is shocking, even to republicans in congress. what happened with richard nixon was that, finally, the republican leadership, after hearing the smoking-gun tapes, went down to the white house. marched down to the white house, including barry goldwater, the 1964 nominee of his party to be president. and told the president he must resign because of his -- the crimes he had committed. i'm not going to suggest the republicans are about to do that, now. >> yeah. i don't see lindsey graham doing that. >> no. but they have to confront this because this is something unique. that no president has -- has

allowed the loss of life, for his own narrow purposes, as what we have here. and the other element of this that we always have to consider. what would a competent, real leader have done? honest leader, in this instance. a few days, he gets this information, state of the union address is a few days off. what would roosevelt have done? he would have gone before the congress and said we have a national emergency. we must come together, as a people, fight this national emergency. take the steps for health and welfare. and instead, we have the most devastating coverup. happily, it's recorded, this coverup, on these devastating things. >> carl bernstein, abby phillip, gloria borger, thank you. coming up next, the president's boast about a secret weapon that he says china and russia have not heard about. well, they, maybe, kind of, have now. and later, joe biden's reaction to all this as we continue.

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back, now, with more on the new bob woodward book "rage." in addition to the controversy, there are also new disclosures about what seems to be one of the nation's most closely guarded secrets, at least according to the president. a new, nuclear weapon. a secret it appears, no longer, if that's, in fact, true. and the president's own over-the-top opinion of some of his generals. cnn's jamie gangel joins us, again, with that. so the president went as far as discussing a secret nuclear weapon system with bob woodward.

>> and it does appear to be true. woodward then went to other sources, and confirmed it. but just to put it in perspective, we have audio from that interview, which we're going to play. i think it's both knowiworth kn is the very first interview that the president does with bob woodward. i think he was trying to impress him, perhaps. but let's just put it in this perspective. the president wasn't willing to level with the american public about covid. but he was willing to tell bob woodward about a new, secret, nuclear weapons system, that he really shouldn't have been telling him about. here is the interview. >> that i have built a -- i have built a weapon system, weapons system, that nobody's ever had in this country before. we have stuff that you haven't even seen or heard about. we have stuff that putin and xi have never heard about, before.

there's nobody. what we have is incredible. >> and, to your point, anderson, they've, now, heard about it. >> yeah. and -- and -- i mean, if he is willing just to tell bob woodward that, to suck up to bob woodward in their first meeting, who knows what he said to kim jong un and vladimir putin, when no one else was in the room and he wanted to impress them. >> you know, it's an interesting point because these 18 interviews happened, two were in the oval office. one was at mar-a-lago. but the rest were phone calls from the residence, late at night. sometimes, trump would unexpectedly call woodward at night. normally, the white house, in a normal white house, tape records interviews with reporters. i have a feeling that the white house does not know a lot of what president trump said in these interviews to bob woodward. >> woodward, also, reports on what an aide to general mattis heard the president say in the

oval office about military generals. >> so, just to stress, this aide is named. he's on the record. he's -- he was working for general mattis. he was at a meeting in the oval office about a trade deal. and just to tell you, what he said he heard was he goes to general mattis, and he says the president said my f'ing generals are a bunch of -- you can read it up on the screen. they care more about their alliances than they do about trade deals. >> i'm assuming that word is not patsies. >> no, exactly. just -- just -- general mattis, then-defense secretary mattis, he wasn't born yesterday. he says to his aide. he listens to the story and he said, would you mind writing me an e-mail about that? so he memorializes it, in realtime. knowing bob woodward, he may, very well, have a copy of that e-mail.

>> there were some brutal assessments of trump's presidency from -- probably many of the most brutal were from many of his former, top national security officials. former defense secretary, jails mattis, james mattis, we talked about. dan coats. talk to me about what they said about woodward. >> general mattis is quoted by woodward saying that trump is dangerous, unfit, has no moral compass. also, an interesting story about defense secretary mattis, at the time. he was so worried that the united states might get into a hot war with north korea. woodward recounts these extraordinary scenes, where mattis is going to the national cathedral, repeatedly, to pray because he's so worried that he may be put in a position of

shooting and killing millions of people. and at the same time, he's actually sleeping in clothes, in shorts and t-shirt, so that he can get up in the middle of the night, in case there's a launch. it -- it -- it's just extraordinary. dan coats. then, the top intelligence official, director of national intelligence. one of the most shocking things that woodward writes about is that dan coats held suspicions that russia had something on president trump. and i just want to read a quick part of this. woodward writes, coates continues to harbor the secret belief, one that had grown, rather than lessened. although, unsupported by intelligence proof, that putin had something on trump. how else to explain the president's behavior?

coats could say no other explanation. and -- and woodward writes that coats found it remarkable that the top national intelligence official felt this way. >> yeah. jamie gangel, thanks for all the reporting. it's just -- it's really stunning. joining us, now, retired lieutenant general james clapper. currently serves as cnn national security analyst. director clapper, the fact that the president is bragging to bob woodward about a secret nuclear -- i guess, top-secret or even higher -- nuclear weapons program. just from a national security perspective, does that concern you? >> of course, anderson. it's pretty egregious because if the -- whoever he was talking to, you know, if he ever mentioned it to the russians or the chinese, they, for sure, are

going to intensify their intelligence-collection efforts to find out what he is talking about, if they don't already know about it. and of course, as usual, he's taken credit for military capabilities that, at least were begun, long before he arrived. so this is, you know, really reprehensible, on several levels. >> you know, i'm wondering, also, your reaction to the president's broadside against his generals. jamie put up the quote of what he -- he had said and was told to mattis. and also, that they care more alliances -- more about alliances than trade deals. you know, obviously, it comes amid, you know, the most recent controversies. the quotes that "the atlantic" has reported the president said about service members who have died, as well as generals. and now, the president talked about the military industrial complex, when his own defense

secretary comes from raytheon, was a lobbyist. >> well, this is just more stunning reinforcement of the president's real disdain for the military. and this is part of a long pattern that preceded the shocking "atlantic" article and the allegations in that, about his remarks about -- about soldiers who had given -- paid the ultimate price. so now, we have, yet, more reinforcement with the bob woodward book. and by the way, to me, the -- the -- having been on the receiving end of bob woodward interviews for two or three of his books, i can attest to what a skilled interrogator he is. and his ability, his innate talent, to get people to say things. and then, allow it to be recorded is just incredible to me. so this, you know, kind of makes

the watergate tapes pale. >> you're clearly not from new york because in new york, we say -- but i won't go into that. so let me ask you. what do you make of the woodward reporting that former dni, dan coats, believes that putin has something on trump? although, i mean, he makes clear in the book, there is -- he doesn't have any intelligence on that. but it's just a -- a belief that remained with coats. >> well, i think this is also significant. because, to my knowledge, this is the first time dan has interviewed with any -- with anyone in the media to talk about his experience in the administration. and so, i -- i take whatever dan says with -- i take it very seriously. and -- and so, i think -- and, of course, this has been a concern from the outset. going back to 2016. why the deference to russia and to putin, specifically? and the president has never,

never once, putin directly and personally. his administration may have taken actions but he, himself, has never. so, this, clearly, is the obvious question, do they have something on him? >> director james clapper, appreciate it as always. just ahead, joe biden's harsh condemnation in reaction to the book. we've got an interview that will air in full with our jake tapper, tomorrow, when 360 continues. when the world gets complicated,

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shortly after the conversations between president trump and bob woodward aired, the entire interview is going to air tomorrow night at cnn. we want to play you the interview of the response. >> president trump understood the serious risk posted by the novel coronavirus. >> you just breathe the air and that's how it is pass ed. that's a very tricky and delicate one. it is deadly than your strenuous flu.

this is deadly stuff. >> the president spent much of february and march down playing the risk of the coronavirus saying it would disappear and the heat will make it go away, what's your response to this news to what he was telling bob woodward on february 7th? >> it is disgusting. we learned this on a day that we turn 190,000 americans dead and he knew this. he just gotten off the phone with xi jinping where he was praising xi jinping about transparency and nothing to worry about and it is going to go away like a miracle. >> the way that president trump explains it and he said it to woodward on march 19th as you take a listen. >> i want to always play it down. i still like playing it down. >> yes. >> because i don't want to create a panic. >> he said something similar this afternoon. he didn't want to create a panic so he down played it.

leadership is about confidence. >> yeah, that's why we have no confidence in his leadership. look, you saw what columbia medical school pointed out in march. had he acted one week earlier, we would have 31,000 people alive, two weeks earlier, 50,000 people alive. this caused people to die. what did he do the whole time? you breathe it and it is in the air and you won't put on a mask. why do you need social distancing for? it was all about making sure the stock market did not come down and his wealthy friends did not lose any money and he could say in fact anything that happened had nothing to do with him. he waved a white flag. he walked away and didn't do a damn thing. think about what he did not do, it is almost criminal.

>> james mattis said to trump, quote, "has no moral compass" trump is "unfit," woodward also said the code could not shake the suspicion that putin had something on trump. what do you make of this on his advisers? >> trump stunned everyone around him of how corrupt he is. he said to the american public that he did not get the briefing on how dangerous coronavirus was and he never read the report or didn't have anything to do with it. he saw the report and knew it in details. at least we know he can read. why in god's name did he move quicker and provide ppe and protective equipment for doctors

and first responders, why didn't he do that? okay, he says he didn't want to panic people, well, at least make sure people have the equipment they need as a caution. he didn't even do that. >> i have relatives all over the country and all over the political spectrum, how do you make the argument to a relative i have in texas who says yeah this virus is horrible but it is not trump's fault, it is china's fault. >> it is china's fault. if it is china's fault, why did trump praised china and why did he say how transparent xi jinping and the chinese are going to be. why did he insist the 44 people we had there and i insist they go in to have access to see what's happening and know the details. why did he not insist on that? the virus is not his fault but the deaths are his fault. he could have done something

about it. he said nothing. he didn't talk, he said there is no need for social distancing and don't bother wearing masks. he went so far to say it is an american freedom to maintain and wear a mask. look at what happened, 290,000 dead and climbing. what is he doing now? look at the schools are soon opening. i know you have young children. well, they're starting off school like the end of last year and at home. think of all the people who don't have all the resources to do that and think of a choice a single mom has to make, am i going to fgo to my $7 job or sty home with my kids. >> almost criminal the former president called it. you can watch the entire view

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