welcome back to our town hall of coronavirus with facts and fears. we hope to answer your questions about the pandemic. >> i want to emphasize something i said from the beginning. we'll get through this. i know there is a lot of c coronavirus fatigue anymore.

not even this picture and this guy did not want to hear about it. >> he was mocking me for reading an actual newspaper. he was like who's this old man i am stuck with and why is he reading that. >> he's cute. >> 4.5 months. our team has put together a bunch of resources on cnn.com/impact on how you can help during the pandemic. you can find ideas where you can donate or find help for yourself orloved ones. sanjay, our town hall as always. i want to thank all of you with your questions and videos. if you did not get your questions answered, our conversations continue on cn

cnn/coronavirus. "sesame street" on saturday morning at 10:00 a.m. eastern on cnn. the news continues now with chris cuomo. >> thank you, anderson. welcome to primetime, i am chris cuomo. we know the president lied to you about the worst medical crisis in our generation. we know he encouraged to do things that were bad for your health, ignoring masks and going to crowded rallies and define governors who told you the truth about the need to socially distance and shutdown for a while. the question is why would he do that? early on when it was mostly blue states and minorities getting sick in the largest number of the biggest city, remember that? that seems to be a convenient for trump. after what you just heard on this tape, can you really say it

is not a legitimate question about whether he would do that or whether he would sacrifice people for his own benefit? really, did he already tell you he would do that in not so many words? i don't know about that fear that it was just abouts the b t states. he kept up with his own base. i argue to you that the facts made it clear. he did use supporters more dirty because he kept telling you especially to go where you can get sick and not wear a mask. talk about eating your own. he wantput the people counting him most in the worse position. so what's the real lesson? he not only won't admit his breach of duty, remember this is the man who told you christians

that he never had to ask god for forgiveness. not only did he do it before. not only did he refuse to admit it was wrong but he's continuing it tonight in michigan. this is what's happening with cases in michigan. do you see the chart? pretty simple picture. what did he do in michigan. take a look at the graph. take a look. oh, they're outside. sure. they're all sandwiched together. masks optional. he told them so many times that masks are weakness. yeah, it is your patriotic duty. once. the only one in that crowd in a safe distance from exposure for sure, guess who? trump. would he really hold a reckless event?

not a word from him about how h risky this is to not have a mask on. not one. you know what he told them? we are rounding the turn on the virus. put that graph up again. that's what he told them in michigan. we are rounding the turn. does this look like rounding the turn to you? do you see any curve other than up? the cdc says more than 25,000 of us could die in the next 23 days. does not have to be that. what if he went on like a mask tour. they give out masks, why not say wear them. i am not holding any rallies until the numbers come down. not doing it. wear those masks. let's get the numbers down in the red states than the blue states ever could. i am all over testing. i am sorry that kids are not back in school.

i am going to do everything to get them back in there. remember his rational. he can't tell you the truth about the virus or how to reduce your risk because that would cause panic and that's not leadership. >> america will prevail over the china virus. as franklin roosevelt said, "the only thing we have to fear is fear itself." keep calm and carry on. that's what i did. this whack job that wrote the book that said, well, they wanted me to come out and scream. no, no, no we did it just the right way. we have to be calm. we don't want to be lunatics. >> my brothers and storisters w lost people, who had sick people in their phfamilies or had this

did you think he did it right? 200,000 dead and he's giving himself a pat in the back? why did you give him so many hours of access? twice. he didn't say you knew things. you did. you said it in your loud, obvious voice. you told them it was worse than the flu and you knew the number were more and you told them it was a deadly thing. you told them you knew it was not just old people, it was kids. you said it. not woodward. that's the fact. fdr churchill, i used them last night as points of contrast. they did nothing alike what trump did. if they did what he did we would be all speaking german today. they said here is the truth. it is going to be bad. we have to get in the fight. we are going to bleed. of course they said it more

eloquently that's why they are great leaders and i am just someone repeating their thoughts. i have to be calm. that's leadership. this is what he thinks is non-panic causing leadership. listen. >> if biden wins, the mob wins and flag burners win. the left wants to get rid of me so they can come after you. >> here comes the crazy blacks and their white friends in the suburbs led by a monster named cory booker. that's not panic? the illegals coming for your women, selling drugs and killing.

islam hates us, we must keep them out of the country. that's not panic and conducive? why does it matter more than anything else we have learned about this president? i will tell you why. it is right to say that those who support this president often do so despite how he is as a person. that there are bigger concerns, feelings of humiliation. there is a class structure in this country that's horrible for whites and blacks. there are unique problems of color, no questioning it. they are systematic, they happen everywhere. how we hire and learn and educate. it happens with whites, too. you have all these people looking down at you. it makes you angry.

they see not to respect you. it is not about trump for you. it is about him being angry of the same people you are. here is the thing. is he doing you right? is he the right agent for you? his wife said we deserve complete honesty with the president. she's right. he's never given you that. honesty with trump is as real as a a jakalobe. not only did he lied but he defid defides the best guidance. he's putting yourself at risk and your family. it matters because he kept those

around in power quiet. they made choices. the people around him that did not tell the truth and kept quiet, they should be exposed. i know it is a dangerous thing to say. believe me, i know the price. there is to reason to do this job otherwise. i would not be remembered as somebody who watched this and did not say anything about it. you deserve the truth especially if he's getting another term. he's got to do this job better than the way he's doing it right now. >> how will you be remembered? will you call these things out about why this matter? florida, did you think it is a coincidence that the governor was saying there is no covid there when there was and he hid the truth from people, hid the numbers from people there? and punish those who tried to reveal it? it sounds familiar, does it? same time and same game, dealoi

what the boss does. the man elected to fight it, what does he say to you? it is what it is. that question is very common where he and i grew up. broke my ankle, season is over. i am sad. it is what it is. can't do anything about it. the response to a pandemic is what you make it. you can do something about it. trump chose to lie to you and make less of it. not only was it bad, it was bad strategy. you can't lie about as virus and make it less contagious. on top of it he did not have the brains to tell you it is not a big deal, do everything you can. at least give him a chance. give himself a chance to be right. give you a chance, believe in you enough and care about you enough to at least give his supporters a chance to be safe.

instead of encouraging you to do the worse for yourself. wow. now major trump's zone have suffered. our kids, the people he must protect most are not in school or too many places. that's wrong. it is true partly because he failed to muster the testing and guidance. it is not what it is. he is who he is. he's a liar who would rather expose you to health risk than expose himself to political risks. i don't care who comes after me and about what. it is true time and time again. seven days out of seven and he's on tape doing it. he did it about what matters

most. is he trying to clear it up instead of owning it? of course. here is the new defense. >> they lied. what i said is we have to be calm. i don't want to jump up and down and start screaming "death, death" because that's not what it is about. you told one person that you knew it was bad and it was. in public you said it was not those things. what you did was, you were talking a friggin' reporter. w what did you think is going to happen? you said i know it is bad. then you told people in public it is not that bad. go to the places they're telling you now, go without a mask. i do not know how any of you can be okay with this. it is not okay. remember he does not believe the theory of his own case.

got to be calm. the black man is coming. got to be calm but islam hates us. got to be calm, don't vote by mail. it is going to be a fraud. illegal immigrants? we love them. they're going to rape you and kill you and sell you drugs. is that common? this is about life and death, not left and right. it can't be bad to make people panic but good to let them die. giving people information is not panic. trusting the american people enough to let them do something with the information that affects them, there is nothing wrong with that. he wants to blame biden.

biden is not the president. bob woodward? this is not about him. you said it on the tape. >> if what he thought what i said is bad, he should immediately right after i said it gone out to the authorities so they can prepare and let them know. >> do you believe this bs? you are going to put it on the reporter? are you kidding me? are you kidding me? you say something because your arrogance makes you think you can get away. you can go in the middle of fifth avenue and shoots somebody one of your own with a red hat on and it would be okay. it is on him? it is not on you. he should have told the officials. oh, they would have spoke up, how did that work out for fauci when he told people the obvious about wearing masks. remember what you said? fauci had been wrong about a lot

of things. then you have your boys go out there, their families are getting threats because of you. >> he should have told people. that's not your job. i thought you alone could fix everything. you alone certainly did make it worse. he didn't turn you in for your lies. was it okay to keep lying? 200,000 dead and you are telling people not to wear masks. you said nothing about it tonight? a curve is going like this, that's a curve? it is called a spike. up is where it is going. curve means two different directions. but, you know what, he does make one good point. where is everybody else? where are the voices out there who called themselves pro-life,

god's protected. that's what my faith teach us. the one elected to keep checks and balances on the president. country's first. party second. many gop senators, conservatives, moderate, they won't answer questions or any questions about the woodward tape. cornyn says he would not comment since he did not have any confidence in the recording. it is a tape. the president does not deny a tape. it is the media's fault. senator purdue and tillis defended trump along with mitch mcconnell. >> listen to this. >> i read the book, i took positive steps early on. he should be applauded and not

criticize criticized. >> you are wonder why we are in the worse shade of the world. that's the face of the response of the pandemic. more so than trump. you know trump is not up to the job himself. you know he's relying on the people around him. they knew. they knew what he knew. these were not top secret briefings. they knew what he knew and they knew when he knew it and now you know what the president knew and when he knew it. you know all of them didn't tell you the damn truth that it made people sick and allowed people to die. so how do we figure this out? s here is what we do. we listen. it is time to listen. we are just outside this election. we have former national security advisors and ambassadors, john

bolton. he left his job one year ago today. talk about an anniversary. he's the author of "the room where it happens" let's go to break and come back and get his take on what the woodward's tape reflects the reality of it. the context of it and what he makes of what it means for you going forward. next. one one-on-one brought to you by t-mobile, america's largest 5g network. # award-winning customer satisfaction... or insanely great value. now, with t-mobile for business, there's no compromise. network. support. value. choose. all. three. t-mobile for business. ready when you are.

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. the president blames woodward for his own yapping for his own recorded interview. trump was told about the coronavirus and told how bad it could be and what we needed to do and he lied about it. he certainly didn't yield the results promised. it lines up with another book by someone who was on the inside. that book is "the room where it happened: a white house memoir" the author is john bolton. well to "primetime." >> thanks for having me. glad to be here. >> what do you make of what the

president said to woodward and his refusal to acknowledge that he did anything wrong. >> this is a political problem for the president which is why he understands it to be. it is not a matter of truth or falsity here. it is a threat of his reelection. it explains the response to it. i think it is just absolutely striking how clear he is on these tapes to woodward of his appreciation for how dangerous the coronavirus was compares to what he was saying at the time what his senior advisors and cabinet officials were saying at the time. there is no way you can reconcile those things and that coming out of his own mouth, i think this could be nearly the point where the campaign ends. when i read your book, it gave me the ability to give the president a break because of how you detail his in curious nature that the man does not want to

read. i gave him the benefit of that inadequa inadequate, what i don't get is this part. why would he do his own people worse. why would he tell his own supporters not to wear a massk and go to places where he would be exposed to the virus when he knew he could get them. >> because i think he was driven by his own logic. my reaction of course i was out of the government at this point in january and february that he was resisting information he didn't want to hear. he didn't want to hear bad things about xi jinping or the exte extent of the disease of china and the impact of the u.s. economy. what you are saying is not a problem and you don't have to worry about it. you then can't tell people to wear masks or do social

distancing because it sounds like there is a problem. i think he could not figure out how to get out of that. what the woodward book does is make it much more serious. if he did know and he did it anyway, you simply can't reconcile that with the qualities of the character. >> i don't understand again you spend so much time around him and get a sense of what he does or does not do, why did he think it was a good bet to deny the pandemic. doing that will do more harm to the economy where as what is every first term president doing? a crisis. i did everything we could. reelect me. look, i think trump believes if he talks about a particular

threat or crisis in ways that he thinks benefit him that he can get away with it endlessly. i saw this situation after situation. don't talk about north korea's ballistic missile test. they won't be in the news and therefore they won't be a threat. how you characterize foreign leaders of the same approach. he didn't understand that coronavirus was not reading the memo. the disease was not subject to that same kind of treatment. once that logic bribes him down a particular path, it is hard to correct from that point. >> and in terms of how you saw this extended, the idea that you had witnessed this president not wanting things discussed and that's it. you want to keep your job, you have to stay there. for instance, the other story of the headlines from the

whistleblower. wolf told me no more briefings of congress and you got a taper of what you said about russia intelligence to what the president want to hes to hear. do you believe it could have happened? >> i think people are self sensoring to a certain sextent. that's a problem. >> you can perceive intelligence from the intelligence community, disagree with the implications of what the policy is or the priorities in terms of gathering new intelligence. >> these are legitimate subject to discuss. this is a trump characteristic. it carries over as well of what he said publicly. he made an interesting remark

about coronavirus. not just he did not want to cause panic, he wanted to keep people's spirit up. i think that's telling aspect of his character but it is not what a president is. he's a leader, not a cheerleader. the american people are not children, they are adults. the way a leader reacts, you tell them the truth. if you don't think the american people can't take the truth, you are saying we have a serious problem in our system of government. you mentioned it at the beginning, roosevelt, churchill, really great people. >> cheerleader is a function of what he wants to cheer on. i don't know what he's cheering for. in terms of this kind of displacement, when it came to

the saudi arabia situation and muhammad base, trump was bragging of saving. you said trump would defend saudi arabia for personal reasons of distraction, how so? >> the time that trump made the statement supporting saudi arabia happens to coincide with a lot of press reporting with ivanka trump use of personal e-mail. as he often does, he hopes that his statement would cancel that out. he was right about it by diverting people's attention to mbs. there is a legitimate argument of american interests dealing with saudi arabia. that was at the top of his agenda though. >> when i was talking about the nsc, the national security council, you said in the book, the nsc saw the threat of covid.

i don't want people confused. yeah, the nsc you understand saw the threat. it was not they missed it. >> that's exactly right. it has been reported in a number of sources and "the new york times" did a long tiktok on the government's reaction on dough v covid-19. the first page of woodward's book talks about this. people knew what was going on. the problem was not failure to understand this was a threat. the problem was it is in the oval office. the president's did n did not w deal with it. >> once they figure out they were wrong, they wanted to make a shift. now we see it on the tape.

woodward says jongeneral mattis says the president is dangerous unsafe. and coates says, he does not know the difference between the truth or a lie. you said in your own book, and treasury secretary mnuchin, you were all worried. worried about what? >> worry about the way a president conducted foreign affairs in many cases. sbe interfering in prosecutions and investigations in this country. it was hard for people and remains hard for people and the administration to know how to handle the president in these cases. everyone had a different take on it. there is never been an

administration in contemporary history where so many came hoping to support the country. the country suffers when it happens. here is a countriticism. why did you wait? if you saw these things in the office and especially you, you have been at the highest level so many times. if you knew it was dangerous, why save it for a book? why not say it when you were there and step down? >> the question is how long you stay in a job like this is complex. i felt that i could prevent worse things from happening. i could call it rationalization, it may well be. i finally left when i could not stands it anymore. why did i put i in a book? because i felt it would take 500 pages to detail.

>> it is good that you wrote the book. >> do you regret not saying it on a show like this. could not have taken you that long to figure out that you should not be there anymore. >> well, you know i could have left after 30 days, too. i would have had more opportunity to make that point. i felt and i believe and there are other people who were in the government, tried to do the right thing for the country. which is what we all owe our real loyalty to, the constitution and not the individual in the office. and i think, look, different people are in different situations. i don't criticize any of the others. i had disagreements with people like mattis. if i had a better answer for you, i would be happy to give

it. you try to make the contribution you can and prevent bad things from happening. >> a group of people have no reason to concern or coordinate their answer, there are so many of you who had high positions, look, i was afraid of what would happen. i also wanted people to know and they had the same struggle you say you have. there is only one thing required for your book to be healthy and it is an open mind. the book has done very well rega regardless. john bolton, sir, thank you very much for coming on the show. we'll see you again. >> thanks for having me. i appreciate it. >> be well. >> all right, so now what is the effect of what the president admitted on the tape? as i pointed out, you saw echo effect, other officials had to stay quiet and could not tell you the truth because he did not wa want to.

you saw other governors would echo him like what happened in texas until it got burned and what happened in georgia and florida. they're still getting burned. how about the governors who rely on him to their own debtriment. >> that governor is phil murphy of new jersey, what his base is and what does it mean and where are we today, next.

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i know when you hear the number of cases, millions and 200,000 dead, it becomes haze and fog. the perspective is that it did not have to be like this. the cdc is projecting we could

lose more than 25,000 additional americans over the next three weeks. how many fewer would we lose? everybody was on the same page. instead of what we saw at trauma trump's rally. stu studies have shown earlier action would have saved tens and thousands of lives. you know who believes it? governor murphy. >> welcome back to "primetime." >> thank you for having me. >> trump told woodward he knew about the transmission. he knew it was not just old people, it was young people and it was going to be bad. it was deadly stuff. do you remember him telling you

that? my reaction was we are in a whole different mindset. we move aggressively early and your brother connecticut and other states. the common thread to those actions. we remain interested in the facts, the data, any data that we can get. secondly that data informed our policies. thirdly we shot straight with our people even if they did not want to hear. we build up a bridge with trust with folks. as a result of all of that. we crushed the curve. we brought it right to close to the ground as you can do. and that was standing that, when i hear the february 7th antidote, i am asking the question, do you think you could have saved more lives.

the answer i have to believe is yes. we memoir allize folks. i speak to folks who lost loved ones every. i think that should weigh on us. >> substantiated for people who push back. you had your own reason. it was not his job. >> well, i think it is his job in fairness. the leader of the country has to shoot straight with our entire position. as you know we got our own experts and we speak to experts around the world all the time. the federal government sits on the cdc and the nih and greens and data and experts.

they can play a role that no one else can play. we can find a lot of the answers ourselves. we did and we moved aggressively before knowing the full insight of what the federal government knew and knows is a dimension that i wish we had. >> the time to act is now. going into the fall, we know what the concern is. people get sick and all kinds of stuff. a lot of it will prevent covid. we still don't have any kinds of testings of your population and let alone your school population. what are your concerns heading into fall? >> we talk about the february 7th, conversation like it was an event that happened and it is over. i just want to say on september 10th, the president can still bend the curve in the right

direction. mandating a national mask policy is the best example that i can think of. we do that for three or four weeks. this is not over and we are still playing the game. we are still in the event. listen, we have built up ass muh testing capacity. we can all use more and we are back to school and we are combination of both hybrid and some in-person and some remote. our principals and safety and high quality education equity. i am poknocking on wood here. i have toured a couple of in-person schools. s the really impressed. we can face a second wave in the

fall. we need to government to be robust. >> you want accurate data. if you get masks in the places where you have community spread and you amp up accurate testing and subsidize it in a place that needs it. you should not have a second wave. you should be able to get kids in school and we should be able to control it and some spikes in some areas that are understandable. governor phil murphy of new jersey. we'll be here to make the case of what's happening and what you need as always. >> thank you, chris, for having me. >> all right, god bless. where are we? as we count down the weeks of the election. let's bring in "the wizard of oz." he was to show you where we may hit. >> next. my derm just let me in on her little anti-aging secret-

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we're going to cover trump and biden, a lot. probably, close to daily. i mean, we're coming right up to the election. what about biden versus clinton? hillary clinton losing four years ago, surprised a hell of a lot of people, right? so the wizard of odds wants to look at the numbers behind why trump versus clinton is not trump versus biden. hello, my brother, harry enten. what do you have for us today? no secret. biden is in better shape, than clinton. tell us why. >> yeah. i mean, it starts off, really, just by looking at the national polls. look at where we are, right now, compared to four years ago, on this date. what you see is that biden's lead, nationally, is not only more than double what clinton's lead was, at this point. but biden is over 50%.

clint clinton never got anywhere close to that. when you look at the polls and you're honest with yourself, there's only one conclusion to reach, christopher, and that is that joe biden is in significantly better position than hillary clinton was four years ago, at this point. >> swing states, please. >> yeah. i know, this is your thing all the time, right? the swing state. here's the key nugget. right? look at these key swing michigan. minnesota. pennsylvania. wisconsin. and look at where joe biden is. he is up, in all of them. and i know we had this discussion on tuesday night. oh, the race is closing. look at where we are, right now, compared to a month ago in those states. all of those polling averages are within a point of where we were last month. and in all of those key states, joe biden has a five-point lead or better. >> if you take the moe into consideration, is it more than a three to four-point race, anywhere? >> i mean, look. if you look at those swing

states and you take into account the margin of error, of course, it might be closer than these averages indicate. but that is the reason why we take an average, right, chris? it helps to shrink that margin of error, and gives us more confidence in these results. there have been a ton of polls conducted in these states, specifically in pennsylvania and wisconsin. and the fact is, in the trulipo that i trust most often, joe biden's never trailed in any of these states, at least over the last six months. >> i mean, florida matters. look. if you are joe biden, you want to win in the state of florida, right? if you win in florida, donald trump pretty much has no map to win. but we have a slide up here, if we can just flash forward to it. that shows the electoral map. and this gives you a really good indication. if you just give joe biden, in the states where whis lead was t least five points in august to september, that is enough to win and that is without florida. florida's great for joe biden. but he doesn't need it to the

same extent that donald trump does. >> what this past week shows us is we are a lot farther away than just the days count. this is about moments, transition, the debate a little bit. but there's a lot that can happen that will change these numbers, one way or the other. harry enten will be along for the ride. thank you very much. and we'll be right back. >> i'll be riding shotgun with you. >> yay. we'll be back. with sofi it's possible to get them paid off and start new. ♪ to show up... ...for the sweet.

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let's bring in d. lemon. i watched him wrestling with his tie, like it was a python. >> are you kidding me? >> still, wrestling with it. >> you're like three minutes early. >> well, i owed you some time. >> you did that on purpose. what did i do to you? >> only good things. only good things. >> what did i do to you? >> only good things. believe me, the less they see that tie, the better. >> man. >> i don't fake the funk. all right? i paid a lot of money for this. as long as it stays in place. so, john bolton is on tonight. >> i was just going to say. i saw. that was a great interview. >> and i chase him a little bit because i don't like that these guys didn't say anything, when

they were in office. and it seems gratuitous and opportunistic just because there's the book coming out. however, i will -- i will push back on myself, while you're getting your tie straight. >> i'm good now. >> i've heard it, from too many of those guys, for it to just be about self-interest. there is something, apparently, to the notion that, whether it was mattis or mcmaster or coats or bolton, that, look, man, we couldn't just leave. you know, once you're aware of how reckless this guy is, as bolton says, they wouldn't leave him in the room alone with kim jong un. they wouldn't even think about it. that you can't leave. it's too dangerous to leave this guy. and i can't really say anything because he'll go nuts. it's all he cares about. and then, i really have no ability to help this. >> yeah. i see -- look. i hate to be -- >> both sides. >> i hate that. i see how one could feel that way. but there are certain times and certain situations, in your life,