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-- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com hello. i'm chris cuomo. welcome to a second hour of "prime time." you know why we're here on a saturday night. our special coverage continues on the death of justice ruth bader ginsburg. a three letter force of nature in american history, the

notorious rbg. but of course she wasn't notorious, she was celebrated and famous. her life was not about notoriety. it was about adding value and representing the best of us, the best of diversity. now what? what does it mean for the laws of the land that we've lost justice ginsburg? her dying wish was don't do it until after the election. it won't be about her wishes. it's going to be about politics and power. what will it mean to you, the voters, in the election. you now know what this means. supposedly democratic coughers are filling up. another justice, 6-3 in all likelihood. that could be a generation of jurisprudence. trump is planning to name a nominee as soon as next week. one vulnerable republican senator has the guts to tell him to wait until after the election, senator susan collins, republican of maine.

>> i think we're going to start the process extremely soon, and we'll have a nominee very soon. >> [ inaudible question ] >> who said that? >> senator collins. >> well, i totally disagree with her. we have an obligation. we won and we have an obligation as the winners to pick who we want. i could see most likely it would be a woman. i think the choice will be next week, yes, i do. >> can't put this on trump, to be fair. obama was arguing the same thing. they elected me, i'm here, i'm supposed to do the job, doing this, figuring out a nominee, putting it to the senate. it's part of the job. i'm going to do it right up until the end. why wouldn't i? that was obama's argument then. it was mitch mcconnell who came up with this newfound principle of let's let the people decide. now they're trying to dress it up and say that's because obama was a democrat and we were republicans, so the people are giving a mixed mandate.

that's a bunch of bs. that was the president's job and it was the senate's job to hold the hearings. that's doing the job. so, don't dress it up. it's just about power, okay? democrats, what do they do? can they do anything? what does this mean for what they would do if they do get into power. joining us now, senate judiciary committee member senator blumenthal, welcome back to "prime time." happy rosh hashanah. it is the new year. it is a time of hoping for better going forward. senator, what do you make of this situation, and thank you for joining me as always. god bless the family. >> well, thank you so much for having me, chris, on this holiday and a happy, healthy sweet new year to you and everyone who's listening. here's what i make of this situation right now, chris. first of all, i'm still dealing with the grief and shock of

losing justice ginsburg, real giant, an icon, who broke barriers from the classroom to the courtroom. i arged three cases before her on the united states supreme court. three out of the four i argued as state attorney general for connecticut. and she was slight of stature, soft of voice, but she packed a powerful punch. her questions was so incisive and inciteful. so, we're honoring someone's legacy who really helped to expound and expand fundamental rights. and we should honor that legacy and remember her. but also part of her legacy was her wish. it was her dying request that no nominee be confirmed until after the election so the american people could have a voice. and i think that is not only her dying wish. it's a fundamental principle of democracy when we have only 45

days before the election. and that's very different from barack obama's eight or nine months before the election when justice scalia died. >> i understand the political argument. we'll see how it resonates. there's certainly no rule. and this is really just about a naked power play. can the democrats do anything to slow it down enough to push it until after the election, not to mention you've got a huge case coming up right after the election. you basically have a case that could decide the fate of the aca. i think november 10th they're supposed to hear arguments. do you think in the ways and the politics and the maneuvers between now and then you can buy that much time? >> that's really a key question, chris. and i'm so glad you mentioned the aca argument because it shows what is at stake, the future of health care in the united states.

this administration is seeking to decimate it. that argument involves the administration as the moving party, as the plaintiff trying to destroy american health care. and i think part of our strategy here is to take the case to the american people. i -- speaking for myself, i'm going to fight like hell because i believe the american people ought to have a say in the appointment of the justice who will have such a real impact on real people, not only health care but women's reproductive rights, voting rights, civil rights, civil liberties, gun rights, marriage equality. all of those causes championed by justice ginsburg and that's part of her legacy. >> i hear you on the argument. the counter is one you hear well as a litigator let alone a genius in the senate. yeah, they had an election and they have the president and they

have the composition of the senate and this is how it plays. see what happens now if they do this and we win the senate. there's these calls on the left. you know what? if we get the senate back as democrats, we democrats should blow up the filibuster for everything. and we should expand the supreme court so they can't do this anymore and write into law that you need 60 votes to undo this law that we're passing right now. what do you think of that? >> well, first of all, we had an election. my republican colleagues should be held accountable. the american people should hold them accountable. if they break their word, mitch mcconnell said so well that the american people should have a voice in the election year when the president is being elected. so did senator graham and senator grassley. the american people ought to hold them to their word. but also every one of my republican colleagues -- because every one of them can be a swing vote. and they will be held

accountable in this election. inso far as the focus right now, mine is, on stopping this vote before the election and inaugural because we're going to have a new president, one way or the other. we're going to have a new senate because many of my colleagues are retiring. and i think it's a democratic principle. if they break their word, they risk breaking the senate -- there may be no rule here, but there are norms and principles. and the senate works because people keep their word. >> it's interesting, senator, i'm actually a little embarrassed. i didn't even think to bring up the argument of, well, will it hurt them in the election if people say you did one thing in 2016 and now you're doing another thing in 2020. i don't even know that voters have the wherewithal at this point to expect principle to be what guides even in the senate.

it seems to be all avarice and name calling. we've been taken so low. i wonder whether or not the american people have an expectation of anything better. what's your take on that? >> i really think the american people expect better. they deserve better. they're going to demand better. and part of it is that folks like you have been calling out the avarice and the word breaking that's happened. but i think this election's going to be about basic principles of decency and democracy. people are set up with what they see in donald trump, the self-enrichment and self-agrandizement and the way to protect the nation from the pandemic in the way that could have save tens of thousands of lives. i think that will be the focus of this election. the health crisis and economic crisis have caused such hardship

and heartbreak around the country. and for right now, the american people really deserve better. they deserve people in politics who abide by principle. that's part of justice ginsburg's legacy as well. >> so, the argument will be about principle because on the question of process, you're a little jammed on this one because mcconnell's in control and he sets the calendar. so, we'll see how it goes from here. we'll see where people seem to have their feelings lie. this is about make it as partisan as you have and it seems to be playing out exactly that way for this president and his party. we're watching and you're welcome to come on and argue your position. not saturday night, not with me, 9:00 p.m. on cnn, you're welcome any time. >> thanks so much, take care. you can make the decorum

argument. you said one thing, now you're saying another thing. the president and his wing men in the senate, i argue to you, only worry about one thing, like the late al davis said when he owned the raiders. remember? just win, baby. that kind of heels everything. do you get them another judge? is anybody really going to care how it happened? or could it backfire to the senators point? let's bring in the political a team here to discuss on saturday night next. ♪ ♪ for all the moments you've missed and all the moments you haven't "hi" love, can't wait -"got the ring!" -"yes!" and with jared it doesn't have to ♪ when i came to the u.s., my family was really poor.d. -"got the ring!" -"yes!" now, i've got fifty employees. when the pandemic hit, i was really scared about losing my business. but osmar, my financial advisor from northwestern mutual,

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the president says he might choose his supreme court nominee to fill the space obviously created by the passing of ruth bader ginsburg next week. and he says it will likely be a woman. just 45 days out from election day. if past is precedent, it doesn't seem likely a confirmation could happen when the average number

of days to confirmation by our current court is 79 days. but again, that is about custom, which means it can be changed. republicans are not, you know, new to throwing precedent out the window when it comes to the supreme court. cnn manu raju and dana bash are back with me. manu, from a mechanics perspective, how short can mcconnell make this? is the answer as short as he wants? >> it's as short as the republican senators will allow. if he has the votes to move ahead, they can very quickly get someone confirmed. and even if it typically takes two to three months to confirm someone and we're 45 days away from the election, it could happen within that time frame. but, again, it would require no more than three republican senators defecting. so, at the moment, one republican senator announced that she doesn't think they should move forward. that's susan collins of maine.

lisa murkowski of alaska, right before ginsburg died, she made clear she doesn't think it's time to go forward with the nomination process. where the other two republican senators that could break ranks. i tend to think in talking to republican sources that the more likely scenario is that they begin the confirmation process before the election. they go through the committee process. they maybe have a confirmation hearing. and then they'll try to push for a confirmation after the november elections in the lame duck session of congress between november and january when a new senate would get sworn into power and president trump could be on his way out, could be on the way to getting inaugurated for a second term. that, of course, creates all sorts of other complications because there could be people out of power voting to confirm someone who have a lifetime appointment. so, the calculus is complicated. but mitch mcconnell wants to confirm someone, is pushing to

confirm someone. if he has the votes, he'll do it as quickly as he can, chris. >> so, dana, unless republican senators say, i think we should slow off this and create this mess that manu just detailed, he can do this as quickly as he wants. then when comes the next argument? he did say something else in 2016. i think that's irrelevant. rbg said she would really like this -- everybody is going to say they respect her, this isn't going to be about her wishes. is there any currency that would change republicans' minds about filling this vacancy asap? >> democrats are hoping the answer to that is yes. i was just texting with a democratic senator who is engaged in this strategy. and the argument that i heard was that that is what they're going to say. well, you know, precedent is such that we should not do this right now. you set the precedent. but as we talked about last

hour, for the most part, republicans are going to look at this and say it doesn't really matter what we said before. we're willing to take the hit. we're willing to be accused of being hypocritical because they have to be respectful of, they believe for the most part, the base in their states. even those in purple states -- susan collins is making a very specific calculation that she has a brand that is separate from the president and that's why she feels that she can do this. for the most part, republicans, especially those on the ballot, chris, are looking at the base and understanding that their base is trump's base. and the minute that they make them angry, they're almost -- they're dead people walking because it's not as if democrats are going to vote for them. that is a separate argument then just decency what is right and what is wrong, which is something that can be addressed.

but that's not where we are so close to an election. >> yeah, to me sh did again, i don't mean to sound this cynical, but, you know, it's like style points right now. you know, these people voted for republicans because they're hoping for change, especially on the court. you know, listen to the president. i think he made basically the dispositive argument for the republican posture on this just moments ago. >> you may agree, you may not disagree with her, but she was an inspiration. so article ii of our constitution says the president shall nominate justices of the supreme court. [ cheers and applause ] i don't think it can be any more clear. it says the president is supposed to fill the seat, right? and that's what we're going to do. we're going to fill the seat. i will be putting forth a nominee next week.

it will be a woman. >> next week, will be a woman. i want to be very clear, we edited that. he did not go from speaking about ruth bader ginsburg to immediately talking about article 2. he was not disrespectful like that, like he comes off in that. that was a quick edit. he gave rbg her due, then made the turn to i'm president now, this is my power. same exact argument obama made. problem was the senator in charge back then didn't want obama to be able to do his job. and now he does want trump to be able to do his job. end of story. >> end of story. mitch mcconnell made clear he was going to schedule a vote before the end of the year. he and trump had a phone call that discussed potential replacements to the court and mitch mcconnell has been dead set that he and his words will leave no vacancy unfilled. and that goes from the supreme

court on down to the federal district courts. that's really been what the senate has done since president trump has taken office. there's been very few major legislative accomplishments, week after week, typically confirming nominees, typically judicial nominees. and mitch mcconnell is very clear that he wants to get this done. that could reshape the court for so many years to come. what he's also telling his colleagues, chris, is to make sure you don't lock yourself into a position that could undercut you in the days ahead. don't say how you will come out and don't say what you will do. let's talk about it when you come to washington. and a lot of republicans senators are listening to them. one of them, chuck grassley, the former judiciary committee chairman told me in july we should not move forward with the supreme court vacancy if one were to arise. he said that to me in late july. now his office is not saying if he still stands by that sentiment. and other senators who are split

too, mitt romney of utah, their office is not saying where romney is on this issue, there's going to be a lot of questions where senators like that, veteran senators, others who are critical of the president, where would they come down. but at the moment the republicans believe ultimately they've come down with the president. >> real quick, chris -- >> last word to you, dana. >> yeah, we cannot forget how much this is already shifting the dynamic in all of the races, but especially the presidential race. you know, this time or a little bit earlier yesterday, the whole focus was on covid. the whole focus was on it being a referendum on the president and his leadership or from the democrats' point of view. and maybe some objective observer's point of view, his fumbling of covid along the way. and now the republicans, even those who, you know, don't really love the president, more

traditional republicans, not trump republicans, are absolutely going to be looking at this in a completely different way because it doesn't get more traditional and important to each side than the supreme court. >> you know, interestingly, they both benefit from the same dynamic, biden and trump. trump has to appoint somebody or his party will go crazy. and maybe biden's best chance of getting the rank and file and those on the fence out for him is if all of a sudden the supreme court is 6-3 conservative. and the only chance of reversing it before it can have been impact, like a generational one, is to get a different party in power right away. very interesting. manu raju, thank you. dana bash, my best to you and the family. >> thank you, chris, thank you. >> all right. special guest tonight to help us look at the special bond between justice ginsburg and her

ideological opposite on the high court, the late justice antonin scalia. his son, christopher, will join me to take us inside a friendship like few we see in washington. it used to be like that. you could be friends when you disagreed. next. new advil dual action with acetaminophen fights pain in two ways. advil targets pain at the source... ...while acetaminophen blocks pain signals. the future of pain relief is here. new advil dual action. we'll look back and remember the moment that things, for one strange time in our lives, got very quiet. some lost work and invented new ways to get by. others were busier than ever, and found strength they never knew they had. we sheltered with the people who matter most, sometimes finding how far apart we'd drifted.

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justices antonin scalia and ruth bader ginsburg were ideological opposites. you saw that on the bench. but they shared a remarkable

friendship. it was a connection that she would say pre-dated their time on the high court. >> among my favorite scalia stories, when president clinton was mulling over his first nomination to the supreme court, justice scalia was asked, if you were stranded on a desert island with your new court colleague, who would you prefer, larry tribe or mario cuomo. scalia answered quickly and distinctly, ruth bader ginsburg. within days, the president chose me. >> and what a great choice, it was. even my father said that. he called ruth bader ginsburg the upgrade. justice scalia's son christopher joins me now. welcome. i haven't said it directly to you, sorry for your father's passing. he meant a lot to the italian-american community.

he was a giant for what people of the ethnicity were able to achieve. my best to you and the family. what do you make of this relationship? what do you want people to know? >> well, you know, as you said, they were friends for a very long time, and it wasn't just they who were friends. their spouses were friends with each other. so, it was -- they -- i don't -- people think it's mysterious, but as you said shlg, it lasted very long time. it was because they had so many things in common. despite their many differences. they were born in new york around the same time, different borrows, but i think they were familiar to each other just from that. they loved opera. they even made cameos in operas together. they liked to drink wine. they liked fine food. very often cooked by her husband, mr. ginsburg, marty ginsburg. he was basically a gourmet chef. so, they were just able to really appreciate the many things they had in common.

and they didn't compromise their beliefs to make sure they were able to stay friends. they still held on to their beliefs. and when they disagreed with each other and their opinions, as they often did, they really let each other have it. but that didn't get in the way of the wonderful bond they had. >> when he would explain to you, as his son, you would say you don't agree with her about anything. i don't know how you guys are friends. what would he say to you? >> well, you know, i took the relationship for granted because they had already been friends by the time he was on the supreme court. so, i just took it for granted. but i can share a story that one of his former clerks told recently. this former clerk is now a federal judge, jeff sutton. and he was visiting my father shortly before my father passed away. it happened to be justice

ginsburg's birthday. my father said i have to go. i have to go down the hall and give ruth these roses. he had given her two dozen roses. he kind of teased her and said what are you doing that for? what was the last time she was on a 5-4 opinion with you that ever mattered. she was teasing, of course, but my father said in reply, some things are more important than votes. i think what he meant, again, was that the friendship transcended the professional, the ideological differences. it wasn't their opinions -- they didn't think their differences of opinion didn't matter. they argued with each others' ideas often and forcefully. but it's that friendship that endured beyond that. and i think that's -- that was just clear to me. he never had to lecture me about that and pull me aside and explain it to me. it was evident from the amount of how they lived their lives

and how they spent their time together. >> that's because they were people of profound principle. you can respect that in somebody even if you don't agree with their positions. and they were politicians. they weren't done as a deal. they weren't done because this is what i need to do to stay as judge. they were there. it was principle. and that's something that overtime you learn is something that you can actually love about somebody, that they just arrive at different conclusions. and this is a tax/don't tax. people don't understand that being a textualist like your father was, organically means something as jurisprudence. it means something different to lawyers than being fiscally conservative as a politician. >> yeah. >> again, not politicians, but what a sad legacy for both of them to be caught up in the mash nations of how they would be replaced. of course, as god would have it,

you know, they're both gone. so, we can't worry about how they feel about things that they're not here to see. but so sad that two people known for integrity and getting along even though they didn't line up are both attached to this process. what do you make of that? >> well, i really -- my heart goes out to her family, in particular rk particular, her children and grandchildren. my condolences to them. if their experience is anything like mine was when my father passed away, it's surreal because you're kind of trying to work through this deep personal loss. meanwhile, there's this enormous political debate going on that you care very much about. i cared what happened. i cared about who replaced my father. i'm sure her family cares very much about who replaces her. but they need to kind of deal through or work through the more personal grief first.

and it's just a very surreal situation to see that going on. and unfortunately, a lot of people will be talking about her like she was just a seat. and she was much more than that. she was a flesh and blood person with many people who loved her. >> i will try to keep that squarely in focus at all times, i promise you that. i did the same when it was your father. christopher scalia, again, i'm sorry for your family's loss. thank you so much for talking about who we just lost now in justice ginsburg and what she meant to you and your family. i appreciate it. >> thanks a lot, chris. good talking to you. >> be well. we'll be right back.

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taken by this virus, and we're still watching politics interfere with basic questions. no wonder nobody can give you a straight answer about kids getting into school and one case shuts down a whole school and they don't know what the rice case, they can't contact trace. nothing seems to be getting better. i mean, how are we going to deal with really complicated problems related to this virus like long haller syndrome. i hope you know that phrase now because it's real. dr. larry brilliant is here. it's good to see you, doctor. does it apply? >> it does. and it's worth also remembering for ruth bader ginsburg in judaism, someone who dies on the eve of rosh hashanah is considered a saint. she was a saint before she died. it's worth thinking about that. >> wow, what a beautiful little bit of religious majesty

bestowed upon ruth bader ginsburg. rosh hashanah, jewish new year is upon us. to all my jewish brothers and sisters. what a great piece of insight. if somebody passes on the eve, they are considered basically a saint. beautiful, larry. appreciate it. cdc chaungs the guidelines about who has to be tested. do you see any virtue in the change? what is it in mind? >> virtue in the change, yes. this is really awful, isn't it, chris. cdc has forever been considered the gold standard, the rock on which epidemiology is based, the mecca that we all return to, we've all trained there one time or another in our careers. but to have politicians say, put in cdc's mouth write the text to go on the cdc website saying that people who are presymptomatic or asymptomatic -- we can't tell

the difference, obviously, if they haven't had symptoms yet. if they're presymptomatic or asymptomatic, they shouldn't be tested, which means we shouldn't know if they were positive, which means we wouldn't give them medical care. today with 200,000 who have died, how many more will have died because of that time when cdc changed its advice to not test people who might have been presymptomatic. it's astounding to me. it's a tragedy. >> their argument is, well, asymptomatic people can be contagious, but they're not as contagious as people with bad symptoms and all that. so, we have to be careful about who we test. we don't have an inexhaustible number of tests. so, let's focus on the people with the bad symptoms or if they're required to get the test, and that's the best way of using the resources we have. response. >> response is you can't tell the difference between someone who's asymptomatic and

presymptomatic at a given point in time. all you know is that they have been in contact with a highly infectious disease that is -- you know from your long haul experience -- is a terrible disease. and the only way to know whether they're incubating the disease and likely to have it is to afford them the benefit of that te test. and to not do it implies a carelessness that is astounding. >> dr. larry brilliant, heavy day, heavy days. i will stay on the science. i will stay on its application to. me, the big front right now is schools. i think we're not testing right and we could do better. i would love to have you come on my show. i'll ask you to come on. i hope you can. >> i will. thank you, chris. happy new year. >> all right, again, happy new year. these tough times just got tougher with the loss of ruth bader ginsburg, so let's hear less from us and more from the

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we can spend time trying to capture what ruth bader ginsburg meant to the court but a truly great person speaking best for themselves. listen. >> if you want to be a true professional, you'll do something outside yourself.

no doors should be closed to people spending hours of effort making dreams come true. we are a nation made strong by people like you. >> in my lifetime, i expect to see three, for last beginning to relegate to history books the days of the token, the one woman. the number of women who came forward as a result, made in the

hot hotel, the hollywood stars. >> i have had the great good fortune to share life with a partner who believed at age 18 on the job is as important as a man's. >> helps some time to be, i have thought of that advice not only at home. the supreme court of the united states. whether thoughtless or unkind word is spoken, acting in anger or annoyance, will not advance

one's ability to persuade to make life a little better, less fortunate. not just for one's self but for one's community. >> sad we've reach add place where such common statements of decency and the simple ambition of doing something for others makes rbg even more notable and almost unique. something that can't be replaced. we'll be right back.

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cnn's special coverage continues now. we're going to be taking you through the latest on covid, and of course, with the passing of ruth bader ginsburg means for her family, this country, and of course, for supreme court of the united states. d. lemon take it is coverage and cnn tonight. >> a giant, so many people obviously stunned by her. everyone knew she was stick and

didn't know how badly, how close to death she was. >> not just to survive but to thrive. her battle was truly remarkable, but now the rest of us are left with a battle about what this will mean for us as her family mourns, i think this country is going to be in a phase of mourning for the kind of politics that's going to unfold over the next 40 something days which is going to be as ugly as we've seen. nice coverage, appreciate it soon. i'm don lemon. looking live right now. here it is at the scene outside the supreme court. that's where crowds are paying tribute to the late justice ruth

bader ginsburg for the second night in a row and this is our breaking news now. the president telling a packed crowd in north carolina tonight that he'll have a supreme court nominee next week. >> i will be putting forth the nominee next week. it will be a woman. it will be a woman. >> that as senator susan collins dissents. given the proximity, i do not believe they should vote on the nominee prior to the election. the president, no surprise, does not agree. >> we have an obligation.