it would be hard to find a more cig is cant moment with potential to affect so many americans. the death of ruth bader ginsburg has left a void in those she inspired and those who admired her determination.

tonight the seat is on the bench speak s s to that void. and to the larger than life marge she left on history. it's unfortunate we can't dedicate the program to that, but the court is one of three branches. the decision they make are front and center. the president has already said he expects to name a successor this week, a woman and most certainly a very different justice than ruth bader ginsburg with the affordable care act to to consider and a contested election. any or all of that will affect millions of lives for decades to come. and people will be voting, no doubt w that in mind. they may also be considering the actions of republican senators who publicly opposed even holding hearings on president obama's merrick garland. but that was then. there's also the larger media context. the sad fact that the country is

about to pass 200,000 deaths from covid-19. the president speaks in the past tense about the pandemic. it is unfortunate ly all too present. which is why we can't simply look back on someone who inspired so many to aim higher, not the least of whom her daughter. >> in her high school yearbook in 1973,the listing for jane beginsburg under ambition was to see her mother appointed to the supreme court. fds the next, if necessary, jane will appoint her. >> she spoke back then to decades of millions of leading sandraday o'connor's and her service on the court. here she is talking with pbs. >> i wish that the spirit that

prevailed in 1993 when i was nominated, i wish that that could be restored. 1993, the vote on me was 96-3. >> it's very different now. >> yes, but there was a true bipartisan spirit prevailing. democrats and republicans worked together. they got things done. >> moments ago, chuck schumer spoke to reporters. he spoke of the wrish that she not be replaced until a new president is sworn in. he spoke to the stakes of a vote as he sees them. >> if you care about all these rights, if you don't want big powerf, powerful, wealthy special interest to turn the clock back 100 years even, our fervent wish is that you call your senator and say, abide by the wishes of

this saintly, brilliant, caring woman and let the weight, let's have an election, let's see the results and then let us choose somebody on the supreme court. >> so he's letting down a gauntlet for senators in tight races. what do we know where senators stand on filling the vacancy? >> most are falling in line behind the president, behind mitch mcconnell, despite the past positions over the merrick garland nomination. but there are a handful of senators not saying which they will come down. and ultimately, will require four senators to break ranks to punt this nomination until after the election between november 3rd and january when a new senate convenes or altogether to say the next president, the winner of the election should be the person actually making that choice. we don't have four senators yet.

we have two senators who have so far broken rank. susan collins of maine. she said in a statement on saturday that given how close things are to the elections, i do not believe the senate should move forward on a nominee prior to the election. i asked her office whether she's an automatic no vote before election or in that main session of congress. she has not said. her office is not responding to those questions. lisa murkowski put out a similar statement making clear she does not think they should move forward before the election. she said the same standard must apply they applied back over the garland nomination barack obama made in 2016. i also asked her office what about the lame duck session. what if joe biden wins. does she believe trump should have the nominee confirmed in that lame duck session. her office would not comment at this time on that topic. there are other senators we're looking at closely too.

gardener of colorado, he's in a difficult race in colorado. in 2016 he said the next president a ought to choose the nominee. they have not responded to us, but he did take questions from voters in colorado and he was asked that same question. will you standby that same standard. he also sidestepped that question by saying it's time to pray for ruth bader ginsburg's family. let's worry about politics later. there's also senators chuck grassley of iowa, he's the one who refuse d to have a hearing n garland in july. i asked him what happens if there's a vacancy now. my position is if i were chairman, i couldn't move forward with it. i asked his office over the weekend, does he still standby that position now that ruth bader ginsburg has passed away. they are saying he has no comment at the moment. the last person we are looking at closely is mitt romney.

someone who has been at odds for this president. someone who voted to remove this president from office. he has has not commented yet on the process. his office says he will not have comment. tomorrow that will change when those senators come back to washington. reporters like myself will be asking for those specific questions. we'll see where senators come down. but it's so significant. obviously, the new nominee could change direction of the court for years to come. before or after the election could determine a number of things the affordable care act is coming before the court right after the elections. one of the dissputs that go on the supreme court. so a highly significant decision that could affect their lives in coming weeks. >> the stakes could not be higher. coming up next, to the white house we go. john harwood, what more do we know about the timeline when the president might announce his pick. >> some conservative advisers

thaugt the smart play would be to delay this nomination to keep conservative voters hungry beginning into the november election. and also diminish, take some of the edge off of the zeal of democrats once a specific name is out there. but restraint is not in donald trump's repertory. he indicated over the weekend he's going to put out this nomination within a few days, perhaps as early as this week. he said it's going to be a woman. and some of the names are pretty obvious. ames membership barret was the runner up to the last choice. she's a conservative catholic. long-time professor at notre dame law school. she's now on the appeals court. barbara lagoa, also on the appeals court. and then allison jones rushing, she's also a district court judge from north carolina operating in the fourth district circuit. those are among the leading names we're hearing.

>> john, appreciate it. before we get to our next guest, we want to play another moment from the call to resist any rush to confirmation. they said that was too close to an election. >> we're not close to an election. we're in an election. and to try to decide this at this late moment is despicable and wrong and against democracy. it's shove iing the wishes of t hard right and the republicans who go along with them down america's throat. >> joining us is adam schiff who are led the impeachment case against the president not so long ago. what's your reaction to what chuck shooichumer said? any lever democrat cans pull to slow down the process? he's talking about people making calls to senators or congress

people. >> i think he's exactly right. people are in the mitdst of voting right now in a presidential election. that needs to come first. but the supreme court is going to decide whether we have the affordable care act. that argument is going to be heard right after the election. so this election may very well determine whether millions of people lose their health care during a pandemic. that's now claimed 200,000 american lives. that will also decide whether to overturn roe v. wade and allow regulation of air and water to address climate change. the stakes could not be higher. for that reason, if the republicans ignore their own rules and stack the court, then i think senator shoouker needs to con template how do you unstack the court. it's wise for him to make sure he leaves nothing off the table. >> shoouker has said everything is on the table if a trump nominee is confirmed this

election year. >> if they rush through this and ignore their own senate rules, mcconnell's own rule in an effort to stack the court, then i do think that senator schumer will need to consider, how do we unstack the court after the election. so i think it's something he should definitely open. i don't know he or i or anyone else needs to be certain at this point because really the maximum pressure needs to be brought to bare not to violate the senate rules that mitch mcconnell established. not to allow that kind of hypocrisy. i think this will really motivate people frankly to go to the polls because they know their health care during a pandemic is at risk if republicans are able to stack

the court this way. >> it does seem extremely unlikely that not one, but two more republicans would vote with the democrats to stop the nominee from getting confirm ed. it isn't just the reality of politics that elections have consequenc consequences. because clearly the hypocrisy doesn't matter to anybody who is already switched their positions. >> i think the hypocrisy is matters to the american people and whether they can keep their health care. so i think that they will pay a very high price if they betray their own word and do so right in the eve of an election. but nonetheless, if they betray their word and pay a penalty at the polls but the damage is done because they stacked the court, then senator schumer will need to figure out how do we need to unstack the court because what mitch mcconnell is doing is now

violating his own press didn't to the debt ri meant of the country and he will need to figure out what's the response. because there will have to be one. >> speaker pelosi was asked about the possibility the house could impeach president trump as way of stalling and preventing the senate from acting on the nomination. pelosi said we have our options. do you have a position on that? is have you discussed any options with the speaker? would that actually slow things town or stop the process. >> i think that's one of the paramount questions, which is there are a lot of tools that we have. which ones would be efficacious. we haven't had a chance to discuss this yet. we will be back in session tomorrow. that will be at the top of the horde of business because one of the things that i think is really driving support for joe biden at the polls is the fact

that the president has done such a terrible job handling the p pandemic. so many lives have been lost. health care is on the ballot. and now with the supreme court seat up in the air, with the argument on the affordable care act, days after the election, nothing is more motivating to voters and to all of us in the house than protecting the health and well being of the american people. it this will be front and center tomorrow. >> you wrote about an encounter with ruth bader ginsburg. can you talk about what happened. >> i say i almost ended my career that night because it was rainy and dark and rushing into the capital. and i was half way through the door when ruth bader ginsburg was on her way out. i almost knocked her down. i stopped myself before i collided with her.

i said hello to her. i stepped around her. i watched her disappear into the night. us i looked a at couple colleagues in the entryway. they said you do realize you almost ended your career. i said, yes, i do. and it would have been deserved if i knocked her down. that should be the end of my career. thank goodness i didn't. >> how will you remember her? >> years ago i form ed a house caucus on the ju dish to try to improve relations between the congress and the courts and invited her to come speak with us. she was gracious enough to come. and she was this small diminutive person with a giant brain and giant personality and intellect. she left such an incredible mark on our society for the better. i love how she became this icon.

rbg, i just love it. no one could have deserved that kind of identiconic status than did because she was such a trailblazer. so i think all of us have a fond place in our heart for her. she's certainly a blessed memory. >> i appreciate your time. thank you. >> thanks, anderson. coming up next, what joe biden said about what should happen next and later bob woodward. the president talking about the court. ♪ this feeling watch me while i break the ceiling ♪ ♪ yeah i do it right cuz i'm a diamond... ♪ did you know that you can shop online with a virtual consultant? ask about special financing with the diamond credit card.

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vicks vapopatch. easy to wear with soothing vicks vapors for her, for you, for the whole family. trusted soothing vapors, from vicks the supreme court has yet to formally announce memorial plans for ruth bader ginsburg. he will likely appoint a woman this week and mitch mcconnell says he will push the nomination forward. senator minority leader schumer calls that despicable. justice ginsburg's confirmation took just 50 days.

the election is just 44 days away. but votes are already being cast in a number of states. joe biden spoke on the subject today as well as what's at stake. jessica dean joins us with more. the former vice president is bring iing up the fate of the affordable care act as a reason sont sort of front and center to be concerned about the vacancy. >> that's right. and they are making defending the affordable care act and its protections for preexisting conditions a key part of this fargument surrounding the vacancy. a campaign aid telling us they believe this is a motivating factor for voters. and look back at 2018 when house democrats regained control of the house. that was their message. it was all about health care. that was a winning play for them back in 2018. we did hear the former vice president talk about preexisting conditions and about the affordable care act today here at the constitution center in philadelphia. this is something we expect him

to come back to again and again. and it dove tails to the broader theme and argument of the biden campaign, which is to continue to hit president trump and his administration on their response to covid-19. biden making the argument that you cannot take away health care for millions of americans during a global unprecedented pandemic. >> is vice president biden going to release a list of potential replacements for the seat? >> president trump calling on him to do that. he's said before and he said again today he's not going to do that. he kind of laid out the reasons why he doesn't want to do that. he it could influence the person's decision making as a judge. certain secondly, that person could be exposed to a number of political attacks. they wouldn't be able to defend themselves because at earliest, if joe biden win, they wouldn't get a hearing until 2021 any way. he said most importantly for him, he wants to consult

democrats and republicans in the senate before he makes his decision. before he makes his pick. going back on tradition, really trying to make a mark of unity and restoring tradition to this process. also important to note he has said multiple times and again said today he does intend to nominate the first african-american woman to the bench. >> what is the vice president biden saying about that? >> it was interesting to hear him talk about that today. he reminded everyone back in 2016 as you all have talked about all day long, back in 2016 senate republicans refused to take a vote on merrick garland. that's when there was months before voting. biden making the argument today as you just said early voting is underway in state ace cross america. he says that's a bell that

cannot be unrung. he went back to the statement that we heard from him friday when he gave his first remarks on the passing of justice ginsburg. he believes the american people should choose the next president and that that president should then choose the next supreme court justice. we'll see, of course, how that all plays out. >> jessica dean, thank you. joining us is chief legal analyst jeffrey toobin. i want to get right to what lindsey graham said in 2016. he said i want you to use my words against me. let's play the sound. >> you want you to use my words against me. if there's a republican president and vacancy occurs in the last year of the first term, you can say lindsey graham said let's let the next president

whoever it might be, make that nomination and you can use my words against me and you'd be absolutely right. we're setting a precedent here today. republicans are. in the last year, at least of a lame duck eight year term, i would say it's going to be a four-year term, you're not going to fill a van can sit of the supreme court based on what we're doing here today. that's going to be the new rule. >> this year he backtracks. the kavanaugh confirmation process changed things for him. he says he's going to fill the vacancy. i understand the politics of it, but do you agree it's hypocritical that it's a reversal? >> for some people, for lindsey graham, it's pretty clear he made that statement and he's reversing himself. now he gives the kavanaugh process the reason. i don't think that was ever joe biden's position or mitch

mcconnell's position. they put forth that position. i think their position was that the nomination approval process is a two-step process that involves two branches of government. and when they are divided, then it is the prerogative of the senate to consider or not consider that nomination. what he's saying here when you have republicans who control the senate and the white house, there's the prerogative to go forward. by what lindsey said, he's going back on what he said. >> mcconnell said that let the voters decide. >> what rick said is a word salad. they are trying to confirm a supreme court justice for one reason. because they can.

this is obviously a much more egregious example of what they said they were opposed to four years ago. that's what's happening now except it's much closer to the election. to pretent this isn't an act of hypocrisy by mitch mcconnell and every republican who is going forward with this nomination is just an absurd joke. >> if the democrats controlled the senate, they would have confirmed merrick garland because they were aligned. the only reason b it's

contentious is there's two different parties and branches. by definition, it's not word salad. that's it the reality of why it was contentious. >> but the constitution says nothing about how the confirmation process is different whether it's a democrat or a republican. a >> this is not a constitutional question. i agree with you. it's not a constitutional question. but it's the prerogative of the party in control to make that decision and the democrats would have confirmed garland in a heartbeat. because elections have consequences. >> obviously, the months are very different in the garland case. that was early on in 2016. and obviously, this is now the election is already underway. there's voting going on in state states. susan collins, not terribly shocking they are opposing confirmation right now. i guess it goes further than

murkowski did on that. are there other republicans that might join them? >> perhaps. there's certainly a lot of pressure on gardener. we talked about it earlier in the hour. republican from colorado unct, f the most vulnerable up for reelection in 40 plus days in a purple state. then mitt romney is working to hear from him because he has a history of kind of going against the grain. and institutions rather than the party and president. if you put the numbers aside my understanding is regardless, the president is planning, he said this publicly, to second up a nomination very soon and the senate judiciary committee is likely to start the process very soon because the hope since we

are so close to an election among republicans is to hold the hearings. because the feeling is that that will continue to shine a spotlight, a bright spotlight on this issue, help motivate the republican base. that is something that wasn't necessarily happening when it was on covid. that's why on the other side of the aisle, you are hearing people like aoc, chuck schumer and every democrat who comes before a camera or on social media saying we need to do this. use this as a motivator. let's think about health care. so both sides are using it as a the motivator. i would not be surprised if this process starts in ab aggressive way before the senate and the election. >> do you think it motivates

both sides equally? >> i can tell you donald trump wouldn't be president today if scalia's vacancy were not still there. that's how he won. and so the real question is whether i agree they are going to move forward on the president. the president has the right. the question is whether the senate will confirm. the question really is will they be before or after the election. number one, when do you have the votes to win and number two, what do you think helps you most on election day? having won and have that nominee in place, or motivating people to elect donald trump so that nominee will be confirmed. that's the open political questions, as far as i see it.

>> but the latter is very, very tricky. it's very risky for mitch mcconnell, whose whole public life and agenda has been ab the courts, the courts, the courts because if they roll the dice and thsay there's a vote -- >> he has to have 50 votes. >> he might not have that after the election. >> he might not have 50 votes before or after. we don't know. that's the calculous he has to look at. >> jeff, is there any political penalty for hypocrisy? probably not in this day in age. >> let's see. i'm prepare odd to reserve judgment on that. i would like to see gardener explain to his constituents in colorado how he said this should be no vote for merrick garland in 2016, but they should jam through someone in october of 2020. it's a complete joke to think that there's any meaningful distinction between the two

situations. i think the voters, they understand hypocrisy is. whether it's a voting issue or not i certainly don't understand. i don't pretend to have an opinion about that. but the idea that these republican senator, especially in swing states, hare going to e able to make a distinction between the two situations, i think that's extremely unlikely. >> thank you all very much. we're going to continue the conversation in a moment with the man who interviewed the president 19 times this year for his new book. bob woodward will join us. the president on mitch mcconnell and lindsey graham and judicial apointments. when the food you love doesn't love you back, stay smooth and fight heartburn fast with tums smoothies. ♪ tum tum-tum tum tums at kay, we believe that nothing should get in the way of love.

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president trump's desire for a supreme court fight could not have been more apparent when the first revelations of bob woodward's book was released. after the first recordings of the president, when he edadmitt to down playing the threat of the the coronavirus, the white house quickly added a news conference. it would be the only public event is for the president that day. the topic more potential supreme court nominees his voters could expect if given another opportunity. joining us with what we haven't heard before is bob woodward. thank you for being with us. so bob, during your interviews with president trump for your book, you spoke with them about the judiciary and the supreme court. i want to start playing a part of the the conversation you had with him back on january 22nd. >> i just signed by 187th federal judge. it's a record.

187 judges in less than 3 years, bob. and two supreme court justices. hasn't been done before. the only that has a better percentage is george washington. >> what i get out i will have more than 50% of the federal judges. and lindsey graham said there were a couple judges that he himself didn't care for and rejected them. are you aware of that? >> and other senators too. >> does he have, that's his committee. >> lindsey and other people don't like him, wh they don't like him. they came out with a couple bad decisions. >> it's interesting. lindsey graham is worry ied tha

the judiciary is going to become too partisan. do you agree with that? >> it's very partisan right now. >> it's always a party vote. >> it doesn't sound like he's concerned at all. pz. >> no, it is winning and what he wants to do. what's interesting in these conversations with him about judges and the supreme court, he clearly is engaged. had he realizes or believes it may be a winning issue for him. instead of talking about the virus, now we're talking about the supreme court nominee. jared kushner, the president's son-in-law, who is a senior adviser in the white house, in the book i quote kushner say in

tallahassee theory behind all of this. and that is controversy elevates message. if you have a controversy, it will elevate your message. we're certainly going to have a controversy. the message here from the president's side is going to be he's tough. he's looking out for his base. he's going to get conservative republic new justice, which conceivably, the people who are being talked about now are age 48, 52. if they get through and join the supreme court, they could be on the supreme court. if they live this long for 35 years, this is a remaking not just of the supreme court. it's a remaking of america. >> it also, in a way, the idea

that donald trump's legacy, perhaps his only legacy as president would be the number of people he put on the supreme court. >> no, he's going to have much more of a legacy, particularly with a virus, which as we now know he's mishandled. he's not protected the people, which his job one for a president. >> you also spoke to the president about his federal judge appointments. the first we're going to play is from a conversation from december of 2019. the second is from may. i'm going to play that now. >> the bigest thing in the whole world is judges. if i have ten ambassadors, and a junction can take long. which is probably right. it should be. he will absolutely ask me, please, let's get the judge

approved. the democrats put up road blocks at every single stop. but we don't need vacancies. on people vacancies, we don't need thousands of people going to the state department. thousands and thousands of people. it's so tick ridiculous. they will say he doesn't have as many. i don't want them. >> i understand that. >> you want a serious, real history. so when this comes out, people say, ah, okay. >> that's the truth. >> exactly. same here. and. >> people have any idea what i do. if you look at the list, i'm going to be up to 280 judges very soon. nobody has ever had that. nobody's ever had that. you know what i did? you have the judges. a lot of them go on senior

leave. we convinced many of them to go on senior leave. and more importantly, obama gave us 142 judges. it's never happened. if you were a president, you would never have that golden nugget. >> is did you ever get the sense from the president he expected to get a third supreme court vacancy on his watch? >> specifically, what he's talking about there, which is really important, that when obama was president in the last period when republicans took over the senate, mcconnell meticulously and aggressively blocked all of obama's appointments. there were 142. that's about right. so when trump started as president in 2017, as the president puts it, not

necessarily artfully, they are golden nuggets. he can fill those vacancies right away and there's an emotional engagement on this issue, which he has that i didn't see in lots of other matters. >> president trump's appointed two supreme court justices so far. you asked him about gorsuch and roberts in ruling against his administration. i want to play that. >> what do you think of your justice gorsuch who kind of led the charge against you on lgbtq issues? >> it's the way he felt. it's the way he felt. >> and that's okay with you? >> when you say against me sglsh well, it was against your administration. >> but this is the way he felt.

i want people to go the way they feel. he felt he was doing the right thing. i do think it opens the spit gots for a lot of litigation. >> it's interesting. i don't know -- i wonder if it bothered him more than he was saying that it gorsuch didn't display loyalties. it's something that's important to this president. what he said there, what you'd want somebody to say. you want the justice to go with what they feel the law is. >> yes, but i think if you can play the next segment, which is maybe more interesting. >> i'll get to that. we'll take a quick break. >> yes, i'm sorry. >> we'll do that in just a second.

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back now with bob woodward. this time let's play this tape. >> i think he's doing exactly the balancing act that a chief justice -- i talked to lindsey graham about this a lot. as you know, he doesn't think it's a good thing you make the courts part of politics. you really want to get people in there who are good lawyers and can think and if you politicize the courts, particularly the supreme court, that's a bad thing for america. >> well sro betters doing that? >> i think he's been very careful. and i think he finds issues like

this issue, i'm pressing, but i think if you were on the supreme court, you would have voted for more freedom. >> that's very interesting. i will never get that vote. >> maybe you can appoint yourself. >> i am what's good for people. all people. so that's where i am. >> what do you make of that? >> well, i make of it that i was pressing him and i think he does believe in freedom for people. it's kind of one of his core believes. maybe the freedom gets a little out of hand. and maybe that opinion by gorsuch in the court written by the court really extended the civil rights act to lgbtq

people, and i have thought about it. so i asked if you were on the court, you would vote for that. and he said, well, that's interesting. and then i said maybe you can appoint yourself to the court, which technically he could do. then he said he stands for people for everyone. >> you also -- i'm raising this because we're about to cross this 200,000 americans killed by covid-19. we have new sound of you asking the on july 21st what grade he would give himself on the pandemic. >> so what grade do you give yourself on the virus for the last six or seven months? >> other than the public relations, which is impossible because it's a fake media. i know -- other than the fact

that i have been unable to -- >> so what's the grade, sir? >> i give ourselves an "a." but the grade is incomplete, and i'll tell you why. if we come up with the vaccine and the therapeutics, then i give myself an a-plus. >> that was july 21st. he's giving himself an a, but really wants an a-plus and thinks they are close on that. on that day over a thousand americans died from the virus. more than 140,000 dead at that point. now on the the cusp of 200,000. >> 140,000 dead and he would give himself an a. we know the record in his own words is he fail ed to protect the american people to use his knowledge. he failed to tell the truth. 142,000 people dead on that day he said that.

two months ago. it's one of the saddest utterances i have ever heard from a president of the united states, including some of the things that nixon said on his tapes. >> really, nixon said stuff on his tapes that were racist and shocking. >> shocking and criminal. but 142,000 people did not die. we've got to look at what the president's job is. and documented now, even people at the meeting on january 28th have confirmed that this is exactly what happened. he knew he was told that this was coming. the deputy national security

adviser had been a marine intelligence officer, as i said, it worked for "the wall street journal" for seven years. you couldn't design a person more informed. he had authoritative sources in china who laid this out and said to the president of the united states, not indirectly, but passionately and directly that a pandemic is coming to your country. this is the intelligence channel. the doctors like fauci and so forth really weren't in on this. i report that fauci heard exact ly this from matt and thought, oh, he is exaggerate iing. he's thinking and when the pandemic exploded, he said matt had it right. >> bob woodward, i appreciate b it. thank you for your time tonight. >> thank you.

>> ahead on this special sunday edition of "360" we'll talk to manu raji. we'll also drill down of the playbook joe biden faces in the coming weeks. it's an important time to save. with priceline, you can get up to 60% off amazing hotels. and when you get a big deal... ...you feel like a big deal. ♪ priceline. every trip is a big deal.

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