documentary sunday night at 9:00 eastern. john lewis, good trouble. our coverage continues now with kate bolduan. >> hello everyone. i'm kate bolduan. thank you for joining us this hour pap question so easy for an american president sew answer it is rarely asked. will you dmoit a peaceful transfer of power after the election if you lose? president trump given ample opportunity to answer this correctly yesterday. instead, here's what he did. >> will you dmoit making sure that there is a peaceful transferral of power after the election? >> we're going to have to see what happens. you know that. i've been complaining strongly about the ballots and the ballots are a disaster. >> but people are rioting. will you commit to making sure there's a peaceful -- >> get rid of the ballots and you'll have a very peaceful, there won't be a transfer, frankly. they'll be a continuation. >> the election is six weeks

away, you well know. this isn't just an example of spouting off on twitter, explained away or ignored. it's a question of the continuity of our democracy. asked about it today, here's what his press secretary said. >> the president will accept the results of a free and fair election. he will accept the results of a free and fair election. >> he will accept the results of a free and fair election. unfortunately i feel we're now to a place we have to question, what their actual definition of free and fair is. that's where we are. as for the republicans, here are the few republican lawmakers who so far are willing to talk about this on camera. >> there will be a very peaceful transition. the concern i have, though, too, i hope you asked this same question of hillary clinton who simply said out there, never concede the race. >> a peaceful transition of

power, and the rest is a threat to the joe biden has been explicit about. he loses the election he intends to challenge the election. >> the president speaks in very extreme manners occasionally. i didn't find what he said last night to be overly extreme, quite honestly. he's making the point we'll see what happens after the election. >> but there is more, it is not just what the president is saying. the president and his campaign are out waiting for election day to day action. his campaign lawyers already right now in court challenging and fighting election policies put in place in response to the pandemic nap would make it safer and easier, intended to make it safer and easier for americans. republican and democrat alike. to vote. add to that there's, of course, the president's push to confirm a supreme court justice before the election. a justice that could be on the bench and asked to decide the outcome of a contested presidential election. there is very clearly a lot

here, and a lot of important things here. let's start with the legal moves that the trump campaign is already undertaking ahead of the election. cnn kristen holmes is covering this for us. kristen where do things stand? >> reporter: kate, look, there's still an ongoing lawsuit in several of these key swing states. i want to break down exactly what they are and who they are coming from, because there is a trump campaign effort. start there. mostly what you talked about in terms of voter access. the lawsuit we saw brought on mail-in voting, drop boxes loosh looshwho can be a witness. saw it in particularly swing states. nevada was a big case, republicans really thought they could win that case. they did not win. democrats prevailed there. all about mail-in voting. but, again, those two that access -- democrats saying need more voter access because of the pandemic republicans saying two

things. one, uphold the laws now and, two, all of this access could somehow lead to widespread fraud, which, of course, we know is not true. keep that there. that's widespread fraud, ties together at the end. we see also going on here cases across the country brought by republicans or in republican legislatures that aren't necessarily the campaign but they are causing a lot of chaos within the system. for example, in wisconsin another swing state. republican attorneys we know supported a green party bid to be on the ballot there, which, of course, would cause a lot of confusion and it did, in fact, cause chaos within the state there. there was also another election on, in michigan. not an election. the legislature that tied up this ability for michigan to process votes absentee ballots ahead of election day and also going on in pennsylvania. a huge deal. pennsylvania, michigan. two of the most critical swing states will not be able to

actually process ballots until the election. all of this together, you have these accusations of widespread fraud and all of this chaos around the ballot, all of these legal fights, this is what election officials are worried ab's they are worried about the fact if you keep saying this and undermining the system, people won't go out and vote and it's going to cause a huge issue for our dog craemocracy. >> appreciate it. a lot to keep track of. thanks for doing it. with the president refusing to commit to a peaceful transfer of power and working to undermine mail-in voting, a real risk millions of americans will get to a place of, if they aren't ready, doubting the legitimacy of the election results. because of just what they're hearing and seeing. from the president. something that is, of the utmost concern of our next guest. trevor potter joins me former chair of the federal election commission, longtime republican election attorney who served as john mccain the jenel counsel during his presidential campaigns. now founder and president of the

campaign legal center. trevor, thank you for taking the time. when you heard the president say this yesterday, what did you think? >> i thought two things. the first is that i think what we are seeing here and as your report just described is a extended, concerted effort to tamp down the vote. to suppress the vote by casting doubt as to whether the voters can really decide this election. and that's very troubling for a democracy. but that's something that the voters themselves can push back on. we are just starting the voting process now. it will be in-person early voting. it will be same-day election voting. it is absentee ballot, mail-in ballot. all of those are legal, valid ways of voting. we have a system in place that

will count those votes. so the first thing is to say, i do think what we're seeing here is an attempt at sort of classic voter suppression to have the voters feel unmotivated to worry their vote, it won't be counted, that the post office won't deliver it on time. all the things we've heard, and the way to fight back against that is to go ahead and vote. so that's point one. i think the second point here, which is really important to remember is that while we have a tradition in this country of the losers of an election conceding and wishing their opponent, the victor, well, that's not a constitutional requirement. and if president trump loses this election and wants to say he doesn't think it was fair or he thinks there were, as he said when he won last time, millions of illegal votes cast, he can say that, but it doesn't change the outcome. we have a system with an electoral college, with state

election officials, certifying results after a complete count in every state. those are then sent to congress. signed by the governors of the states. they are counted, transparently in public, by the new congress in january. so whether president trump likes the result or not, there is a system in place that he does not control to count those electoral college votes, and to determine the winner. and that is the electoral college voting, congress counting it in public. it does not depend on the president, "accepting" the results. it doesn't depend on a supreme court decision, in almost any case. the court does not have a constitutional role here. >> you, as a farmer chairman of the federal election commission, i was sitting here thinking, if you were still in the post, what would you be doing right now? i mean, what can the fec do?

>> well, i will say one of the problems we're facing, which is an example of a broken fec, is the commission has no quorum at the moment. >> right. >> and so legally, the fec is sidelined. it can't take any action, but it's largely a disclosure and campaign finance enforcement agency, and in this country, the power to count votes is a state power resides in the top election officials in every state, often the secretary of state, and then ultimately the governor to certify the electoral college results. so while the fec i think we're functioning would be out there pointing out that we have a really comprehensive system based in the states for running elections and counting returns, the fact it does haven't a quorum is a problem for other reasons, like enforcing the campaign finance law, but not a problem in this election

situation. because the state officials are the ones responsible. >> let me ask you about that, because this appears that it could be going further than just the idea of the president saying he rejects it's election results outright when they happen. i want to read for you what, some of what the "atlantic" reports. mark gelman in his reporting. according to sources in the republican party at the say the and national levels the trump campaign is discussing contingency plans to bypass election results and appoint loyal electors in battleground states where republicans hold the legislative majority with justification base and claims of rampant fraud trump would have state legislators to set aside the public vote and choose a slate of directors, directly. your take? if that's going on behind the scenes, i wonder what you think? >> yeah. that is, i think, the most shocking piece of a very good

"atlantic" article and a couple thoughts on that. one, i think it's really interesting that a top talking you have to say, why would they do that in september? >> right. >> first, sounds as if they think they're going to lose the vote counting and trying to find ways to delegitimize or question lawful ballots. that's pretty surprising, you know, a long way from the election at this stage. secondly, though, it's not actually correct constitutionally. they may be talking about that as a way of scaring people, but the reality is that state legislators after the fact cannot change the way that electors are chosen. the supreme court is clear going back to the florida case saying ledge sla legislators have the determination but every single

state in the country said we will defer to the voters of this state to select electors and th election for the legislature to change that method. that would, in fact, violate federal law. there is an electoral count act dating back well over 100 years to when their last was a contested election, and that act says that the state has to use the system in place under its laws to select electors, and it then sets out that it's the governor, not legislators, who certify the results and send them to congress. so -- we're really in a situation here where there are, i think, you know, scaring people, and not explaining that this is a highly hypothetical situation and one as i say that we are very unlikely to see, given our history. >> but look at 2020 and what

kind of a unprecedented year it's been, though, trevor, on so many fronts. the president went on yesterday. where the president was yesterday and focused in on and what he's been obsessed with for quite some time unfounded claims of mail-in voting fraud. voting by mail as we know is not new and not kroempcontroversial. you've written and talked about this. do you think, though, he is doing real harm in the fear he is trying to stroke clearly with this? >> yeah. it's clearly making people concerned about voting by mail. first of all, the issue of, will it be counted? of course, every state has a system in place for counting it. secondly, for questioning the legitimacy. that's really a p.r. gambit, because legally a vote cast on an absentee ballot by mail is just as legitimate as one cast

in person, and both have the same security safeguards. both of them require the voter be identified. they produce an i.d. or a -- a birth date or a social security number or a signature, or a range of ways in which the election officials can ensure this ballot is from a lawful voter. so the suggestion that they're going to be millions of votes from foreign countries and so forth ignores the way the system actually works. but i do think it has the effect of telling people, gosh. if i can vote in person or if i can vote early, i will avoid all of that. even though both systems are equally valid and equally legal. i do think that there is a point here people need to understand and that sn this some states vo entirely by mail for years. hawaii, utah, and those states will be fine, vote by mail.

their votes counted. they have an efficient system. other states that are not used to having lots of absentee ballots, and in fact normally have a very small number and i think the risk for states like pennsylvania, new york, is that they will be slow in counting, because they don't have an efficient system for counting the paper ballots that come in by mail. and that's where there is a concern, i think that if it take as long time to count, and if it looks as if republicans following the president's instructions are going to try to vote on election day, and democrats are more likely to vote absentee by mail, which is what we're seeing in some polling, that on election night, trump will be ahead in those states, and he's already flagged that he's going to say, ah, you should stop counting the ballots now because i'm ahead. that's like saying half way through the baseball game we're going to call it and say the team that's a run ahead wins when you've still got half the inning left. and that legally cannot happen.

those other ballots are lawful and will be counted but it will take a while in some of those states and we're seeing from the trump campaign is that they are going to try to challenge ballots if they can as they are being counted, but there's a system in place for dealing with that, and you know, the sorts of things we're talking about, that "the atlantic" article talked about are only even hypothetically going to come in to play, if this election is really close and comes down to a couple of swing states and then there will be a back and forth legally in court transapparently over whether some of the ballots that came in by mail did not have a signature on them or were not mailed on time. issues like that. >> we're going to end that with the system we've watched so often, very like lly tested in some way another as we're six weeks out. trevor potter, appreciate it.

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more than 20 states across the report reporting a spike now in coronavirus cases. this uptick comes as president trump is again attacking the fda after reporting that the fda is considering imposing tougher standards for his vaccine

approval. standards that make it more likely that the release of a vaccine would push past election day. here's the president's reaction. >> -- for me extremely political. why would they do this? come back with great results. i think you will have those great results. why would we delay it? we're going to look at it. take a look at it and ultimately approve it. >> joining me, cnn's elizabeth cohen. dr. sanjay gupta was actually, just had the opportunity to ask dr. anthony fauci about this. what did he say? >> you know, before we get to that i want to answer the question that president trump asked in that sound bite just now where he says, why would they do this? delay a vaccine? the reason why scientists at the fda are thinking of taking these steps is so the vaccine will be safe. it's really an easy answer. now, my colleague dr. sanjay gupta sat down with tony fauci

today talking to him about this fda, about the expectations that the fda may put forward these standards that could delay a vaccine, but for safety. >> so the fda says want to wait two months. seems reasonable, but the president, i learned just yesterday, has the authority to not necessarily approve those particular guidelines. that seems like a real injection of politics into this process. is it not? >> the issue is that the scientists and the fda have put this forth as what they're proposing for the criteria for eua. under normal circumstances that decision is theirs. the secretary approves it. that's it. something that comes from without, that is not a scientific consideration, would be troublesome. i have to tell you. but, remember, there is some degree of flexibility. the 60-day proposal that they put forth was based on what you

just said accurately. that modeling most of the issues you're worried about will occur in that period of time. the thing that could modify that and modify it within the scientific realm of being scientifically justifiable, is that if the vaccine is so overwhelmingly effective, that you would say, the risk/benefit of having adverse events override the benefit of getting a 98% effective vaccine earlier rather than waiting 60 days, that's something that even we scientists, we say you know, we should really take a look at that. you might want to shorten that. but to get rid of completely any further waiting for safety, i think most scientists would say, no. you really got to be careful. >> so let's unpack a little bit

about what dr. fauci just said. let's say that in a month there is data that shows one of the vaccines now in phase three clinic the trials looks effective, like it actually prevents covid-19. the fda, what the fda is expected to do is say to these folks, hey, wait a second. we want you to wait two months past a certain point in the your trial before you can ask us for per in addition to put it on the market. if that ends up happening there is just really no way that we will have a vaccine by election day. the smamath doesn't add up. i heard dr. fauci say there are reasons to support that measure. increases safety. if you spend another two months giving people, giving study subjects the vaccine, you get more data to see, look, it's safe. people aren't reacting badly to it. he put out one kacaveat. if the data is so great, 98% effective vaccine, maybe we don't want to wait the 60 days.

i have yet to speak with anyone who thinks that's going to be the case. that we're going to get overwhelmingly excellent efficacy data for a vaccine soon. that just seems highly, highly unli important point to make. the twoaccines front-runners by far in these clinical trials, they both use a technology that is new. it's never been used in a vaccines that on the market in the u.s. before. so that's exciting in many ways, because it might work fabulously, but there are safety concerns. this is not a vaccine technology that's been used on millions and millions of people. so you want to take extra special care when something is new. kate? >> elizabeth, thank you so much. joining me now, someone moo knows a lot about vaccines, a vaccine expert and member of the fda expert advisory committee, the group of advisers the fda is consulting when it comes to vaccines. great to see you, doctor, again. what the president said

yesterday, i just wanted to get your reaction to it. >> i don't think he can do what he says he wants to do. the fact of the matter is, data safety monitoring board is a group that has been charged with this. we are going to hold this vaccine and these vaccines to the same safety standards and the same efficacy standards we hold for any vaccine. makes sense. most will be given to people young, healthy, unlikely to die from this virus. i don't see how he can perturb that system. only they know who's gotten the vaccine or the placebo only they know who's gotten sick and hasn't. when donald trump says the data looks really good. studies look really good, he can't possibly know that unless he's on the daily monitoring board, which he's not. it's an unpurchase tushable system. dr. fauci said could be stopped early with overwhelming evidence its effective, but that -- >> doctor, jumping to the white

house. president trump is speaking. >> -- talking about health care. we have a lot of good things happening with respect to health care. and very positive on pre-existing conditions. very positive on the fact that we got rid of the individual mandate, which was the single most unpopular thing having to do with obamacare. the obamacare disaster. and, but we have a lot of incredible things, positive things, and very good things and money-saving things on health care and then we're going to pla. we have a big rally, and it will be something. i hear there's a tremendous number of people. so we're not totally surprised by that, but that's okay. a tremendous number of people. jennifer, go ahead. >> [ inaudible ]. >> there working to see if they can make a deal, and if they make a deal they'll have to bring it to me and i'll either approve it or not. to me, safety is the predominant

factor and we'll see if they can do that, but they're moving along. let's see what happens. if they make a deal, fine. if not, that's okay, too. >> mr. president are the elections being contested if you win? >> careful of the ballots. that's a whole scam. they found, i understand, eight ballots in a, a wastepaper basket in some location. they found it was reported in one of the newspapers that they found a lot of ballots in a river. they have throw them out if they have the name trump on it, i guess, but they had ballots. >> no names on it. >> okay. still found them in a river with a name on them or not. the other ones had the trump name on it, and were thrown into a wastepaper basket. we want to make sure the election is honest and i'm not sure that it can be. i don't know that it can be with this whole situation, unsolicit the ballots, unsolicited millions sent to everybody and

we'll see. if you remember, hillary clinton just a week ago or so told joe biden, do not accept the results of the election under any circumstances. but you don't ask her that question. you only ask me the question. yeah. go ahead. >> you didn't answer my question. answer my question -- [ inaudible ]. >> say it? >> do you plan to meet with -- [ inaudible ]. >> i don't want to make a comment on that, but we're going to make our decision on saturday but i won't comment on that. i will say this, i think saturday afternoon, 5:00, it's going to be a very important day in the history of our country. i think it's going to be a very monumental, very good choice. >> and breonna taylor, what do you think of -- >> breonna taylor -- [ inaudible ]. >> i'm getting, getting very close to a final -- >> [ inaudible ]. the federal government -- would have -- [ inaudible ].

>> well, we're doing, we have numerous companies. johnson & johnson, pfizer, moderna, others, too. they're great companies. best in the world. so i think you're putting the people of new york at grace risk and he's done that, look at the nursing homes. 11,000 people died. needlessly. so when you look at that, it's very sad. so we'll see. we'll have to see. these are great companies. being done by the, really, probably some of the greatest companies in the world, when you think, with pfizer, johnson & johnson, et cetera. i think that they are getting very close. as you know, they're in final testing right now. phase three, but final. they've given shots to everybody, to a lot, thousands and thousands of people. and so far it looks very good and it looks like it could happen fairly quickly. >> what do you say to the family of breonna taylor, sir?

>> i think it's a sad thing and i give my regards to the family of breonna and i also think it's so sad what's happening with everything about that case. including law enforcement. so many people suffering. so many people needlessly suffering but with respect to breonna we give our regards to the family. >> and what about -- [ inaudible ]. >> what do you -- [ inaudible ]. >> investigating all the -- [ inaudible ] -- also china globally. >> well, an honor to be nominated for nobel prizes. an honor and we'll see what's happening. i know china now and india are having difficulty, and very substantial difficulty, and hopefully they'll be able to work that out. if we can help we'd love to

help. >> how do you feel about the -- going on outside the supreme court? "throw you out" and uphold her wish? >> just a political chant. we could hardly hear it. somebody said there was some chanting, but they were right next to the media. but we really couldn't, couldn't hardly hear too much. we heard a sound, but it wasn't very strong. >> sir, what are you -- [ inaudible ] -- >> well, i think that peaceful protests, number one, it's fine to do that, in a peaceful manner. but when it gets, when it gets less than peaceful as you see all over then it's unacceptable, and that's where law and order is necessary, and that's where law enforcement is very important. jennifer, go ahead. >> you didn't answer my question. >> jennifer, go ahead. >> and -- [ inaudible ] -- are

you -- >> we're speaking with a lot of people about that. i'm doing very well in maine. you've seen the numbers. what i've done for maine is what nobody's done. i've freed up 5,000 square miles of ocean that was taken away by president obama, and for the lobster, the people that go out and get us those great lobsters that we all like so much, i freed that whole business up and the fishermen, too. we freed it up. so it's -- i think i've done more for maine than just about anybody, certainly in many, many years. so i'm doing very well in maine. i don't know. i haven't seen polls, but i hope she does well. thank you, polls on susan. >> dr. redfield said -- [ inaudible ] -- >> all right. president trump right there. let me bring in cnn's kaitlan collins, listening along with us. kaitlan, just on the breaking news and top news of the day, the president did not, again, take an opportunity to answer the question of the peaceful

transfer of power. he seems to be continuing to try to sow doubt in this election. >> reporter: yeah. asked only a legitimate election, if he wins. that election. the president's response, not an answer, yes or no. instead talked about being careful with ballots and referenced and unusual statement from the justice department earlier today talking how there were nine ballots voted for prpt discarded in pennsylvania. of course, a state where over 6 million people voted in 2016. the president referenced that and repeatedly tried to make the case there will be widespread voter fraud come november and trying to use that for a defense of the comments he made. a stunning comment we have not heard from any other u.s. president in modern history saying he would not commit to being a peaceful of transition of power, something that caused a ton of backlash today and led the senate a few moments ago to pass a resolution reafarming support for a peaceful transition of power should he lose to joe biden in november.

as you see lawmakers, kate, have to go back and forth all day long whether or not they want to condemn the president's comments. most republicans doing so without naming the president himself. so not answering directly that question there, instead trying to turn it around from what he said last night. though, of course, you know, this is what the president said. the question for the white house all day, what do they define as a free and fair election? we've seen how the president repeatedly tried to say that if joe biden wins, it means the election was rigged. today his fbi director chris wray testifying on capitol hill asked about these allegations you heard from the president and he said he has seen no evidence ofly in coordinated attempts to have widespread voter fraud happen in november that's from the fbi director, his job to look into all of this and it remains to be seen how much longer the president will push them and whether it will hurt him politically, but it comes, i mention, he is going to north

carolina, supposed to unveil what they claim is his replacement health care plan. really it's just several executive orders. not any kind of legislation that they'd like to see. capitol hill bringing to a vote anytime soon. just an executive orders, and, of course, the big thing they've said that the president is committed to protecting pre-existing conditions, even as they are going to court right now to try to dismantle the affordable care act which by law protects pre-existing conditions. just had a call with the health and human services secretary alex azar a few moments ago. actually he was on air force one waiting for the president to get there, and when asked, how is this really going to carry as much weight and something passed into law is going to? how can an executive order compare? he said an underlining of their policy that they want to protect pre-existing conditions. of course that is not going to be covering people you know if he gets a supreme court nominee confirmed and they overturn the

affordable care act and left without pre-existing conditions protected by the law, so many questions for those people going to be affected by that, kate. >> kaitlan, thank you. so much. i appreciate that. get back to dr. paul offette. sorry. the president, seems to happen, doctor, whenever you come on. the president also asked about the process of getting a vaccine for covid. he said a vaccine should be here soon. i just wanted to get back to you on kind of the topic at hand. looks like it could happen very quickly, how he said it, but the president continues to, yesterday, accusing the fda of injecting politics into this process by putting, talking about putting in place this more stricter standards, stricter rules, if you will, to get approval for any vaccine. i just want you to speak to that. so many people are out there concerned about, as you have been, about the injection of politics into vaccine approval. >> it's ironic.

isn't it? nobody's done more to inject politics into science based agencies than president trump. did it with the national weather service now done it with the fda twice with regard to hydroxychloroquine and convalescent plasma and now trying to do it with vaccines. i'm telling you, i just don't think it's going to happen. it can happen. talking hydroxychloroquine and convalescent plasma you give it to people who are sick. most people getting these vaccines are healthy, young people and eventually children. we can't mess around with this. we have two ways out of this pandemic. one, hygienic measures, wearing masks. social distancing, he's already sewn disdain for that and why there is more trouble frankly than almost any other country because we're so bad at that and second is vaccines. if he messes around with that and takes an already skittish and skeptical american public and makes them even more skeptical, because frankly they don't trust him on the science we've lost in our opportunity to

end this pandemic. this is really hard to watch but i think a lot of people are out there, only fda vaccine advisory committee, gotten to know those people, theron exactly who you want them to be. hard-working, great public health officials who try to stand between pharmaceutical companies and the american public making sure we don't get unsafe products or that are ineffective. the fact he's doing this is heartbreaking and side slides this is heartbreaking. we need a safer and effective vaccine. the fda is a group to give it to us. states aing, look, make our own decisions on this, it tells you they don't trust the fda. we're at that point in this country we don't trust the fda, then we have a problem. >> doctor, thankfully you are also around to offer advice and there's trust in you. thank you so much for sticking around. i appreciate it, dr. paul offette. back to the top story and bringing in lawrence tribe,

constitutional law photographer at harvard law school. professor, thank you for being here. you heard the president yesterday and being asked a question that should be very easy to answer about the peaceful transition of power, and the president given the opportunity again today just now on the south lawn of the white house did not gooubt the election that is under way right now. about this you wrote, and really it struck me, that those are not the words of an american president. those are the words of the first american dictator. >> i'm afraid that's right. which you listen to exactly what he said, he said, get rid of the ballots, and there won't be a transfer of power. frankly, there will be a continuation. now, your viewers need to think about that. there won't be a transfer. we have had a peaceful transfer of power ever since george

washington. even in the civil war. even in world war ii. the first time we have a president who basically says, heads i written. tails you lose. it's all rigged unless i am the winner. and the way i will prove that is i will call a halt to the counting of ballots, if i'm ahead in the eenvening and ai'm the next president. i'll have the military back me up. we are watching the destruction of our democracy. this is not just an election between the democrats and the republicansly inmore. it's not just between joe biden and donald trump. it's an election between democracy and dictatorship. and that has concrete consequences. he is setting it up so he will have a majority on the court. he is rushing an appointment. he's going to name someone on saturday and he's got a

guarantee already from the senate sight unseen. you bring her before us and we'll give her a thumbs up and says the reason he needs to do it before the election is so he has a court to back him up if he wants to steal the election. we are watching in destruction of something precious. something that we've had from 1787. it's been flawed. we've had slavery. we've had jim crow, but we've moved towards a more and more inclusive democracy, until now. and now we have someone who says, get rid of the ballots. people have died for the right to vote and this guy says, get rid of the ballots. i've never heard anything like it. >> professor, are there, are there no safeguards in place? >> well, there are some safeguards, if he tries to get rid of the ballots, we'll see him in court. if he tries to get state

legislatures simply circumvent their state election, we'll see him in court. there arell. we have to turn out in massive numbers. the biggest and best safeguard is to vote. to get everyone you know to vote. to vote early. to vote by mail if possible, but if not, if you'd rather vote in person, it's going to be perfectly safe. if you just do it right. wear a mask. distance, but don't let this dictator scare you away from voting. it is by having an overwhelming victory, even on election day, that we can get rid of all of these shenanigans, but if it's not overwhelming enough, the courts might just support the law, despite the fact that some of them have been appointed by this guy. i'm not ready to give up on the courts. we still have a possible, and is

there. we've got to use it, but the main thing we have to use is our ballot. our votes. >> i've seen some people today brushing this off, republicans chalking this up to trump being trump and just talking in extreme terms, but not seriously. >> i'm afraid he is serious. we've got to take him seriously. that's one thing you learn in the history of autocracy and authoritarians. when they tell you what they're going to do, believe them. and when this guy has said what he will do, exclude muslims, we should have believed him. he imposed a travel ban essentially a muslim ban. said we're going to separate kids at the border in order to inflict maximum pain and deter people from coming, some people didn't believe him. they didn't believe he would dare rip families apart. but he did. this guy has to be believed. we have to believe what he says.

we cannot afford just because he may be a moron and a joker, we can't afford to treat him that way. he is the president of the united states, what he says matters, and we cannot turn away. >> and it's not just the possibility of rejecting the results outright. i was talking to trevor poulter about this top of the show. it is the possibility of using the levers are power like state legislatures to swing the results. this gets to something most people don't know anything about. the rules of the road when it comes to electors and what's, and how and what is and what isn't spelled out in the constitution, professor. >> right. i've been trying in my twitter feed to spell things out and 280-word verse. the law, not entirely clear, but what is clear is that the president does not have the right to simply circumvent the popular election.

he can try to get state legislatures to do it, but if you look at the rules of the road, they can't simply change the rules in the middle of the election, and certainly they can't suddenly go rogue and say, well, you know, we're republicans and our democratic governor can't veto what we're doing. we're just going to show up and in a rump session and name trump. that's perhaps what they'll try to do, but that is not legal, and i've been working on developing a legal argument that even a conservative court should buy, and ultimate there's nothing conservative about ripping up the voting system, ripping up democracy. that's radical. that's not conservative. that's what fascists do, it's what the kremlin would like him to do. that's the way putin got re-elected. putin may well be calling the shots. trump is following the putin playbook. and when nancy pelosi said, confronting the president, mr. president, all roads lead to moscow whether through moscow

mitch or something else. she knew what she was talking about. this guy is a putin -- asset, and a very minimum, we don't know what putin has on him, but he does exactly what putin wants. what putin wants now is to have a lackey in office for another four years so that he can rip up nato, rip up our alliances, weaken the united states, turn us against one another, fundamentally destroy democracy. that's what putin wants. not what i want and it's not what even trump followers ought to want. >> well, i will say, the way you laid it out, professor, i'm -- quite nervous what we'll see in the next six weeks and what then can come after that. but what the constitution says and adherence to is of utmost importance. thank you for coming up. >> thank you, kate. >> really appreciate it. still ahead for us -- two officers shot in louisville overnight after protests break

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violence spilling out onto the streets of louisville after the grand jury's decision not charging anyone with the killing of breonna taylor. one officer was charged in the case but only charged with wanton endangerment for firing indiscriminately and risking the lives of breonna's neighbors. some protests turned violent, two police officers were shot. where do things go from here. on the ground in louisville for us, brin, what are you hearing? >> the 26-year-old lorenzo johnson in custody charged with two charges of assault of police officers and wanton endangerment. they are still recovering, one released from the hospital. johnson is expected to go before

a judge tomorrow. what we're hearing on the streets. primarily these protest vs bes been peaceful, they have been for months, they want answers. especially you can imagine how that's multiplied for the family of breonna taylor. they haven't gotten answers and feel like they have been robbed of justice. i want you to listen to taylor's family attorney and what they are now calling for as we move forward. >> the family is demanding that daniel cameron release the transcript of the grand jury proceedings so the family and the community can see if there was any evidence presented on behalf of breonna taylor or if her life didn't matter in those proceedings. >> and that's something also kentucky's governor has called for, to release that information so people can understand what evidence exactly the grand jury considered before coming down with that indictment against the

one officer in this case. of course there's other investigations still ongoing at this point, kate, and tonight we're fully expecting another night of protests. the mayor of this city saying, please, let it be peaceful. breonna taylor's family saying please let it be peaceful. we're see curfew tonight and tomorrow night. >> brynn, thank you so much for being there. you can see the memorial behind brynn, breonna taylor, an innocent life lost in this. thank you so much. continue to stay with us, we're covering breaking news. president trump from the south lawn of the white house continuing to sow doubt -- try to sow doubt in the election. i give to shriners hospitals for children

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moments ago president trump sowing more doubt about the election after he made an alarming statement that has set off a wave of anxiety about the election and the future of the united states. president trump is refusing to commit to a peaceful transfer of power if he loses to joe biden in november, setting the stage to defy a core principle of american democracy dating back centuries. earlier this afternoon, white house press secretary mcenany attempting to clean up that statement. listen to what she said. >> the president will accept the results of a free and fair election, accept the will of the american people. >> she did not define what the white house considers free and fair and that is important. just listen to what the president said moments ago. the president said that he does not know if the ele