had a fourth grandchild on the way. his family remembers his corny jokes and big smile. may they rest in peace. i'm jim acosta. thanks very much for watching. erin burnett "outfront" starts right now. outfront next trump dodge is when it comes to his debts refusing to say who he reportedly owes hundreds of millions of dollars to. why is he hiding this? plus members of the coronavirus task force doctors fauci, redfield, and birx all raising concern with the doctor who now has trump's ear. is he giving the president dangerous advice? another member of the task force is out front. just over 24 hours until the first presidential debate. one woman who faced off against donald trump joins me on what joe biden should expect. good evening i'm irnt "outfront" tonight. who does donald trump owe more than $300 million to? well, we don't know. that is a huge problem for all

americans. according to an incredibly detailed report in the "new york times" trump is on the hook for hundreds of millions of dollars in loans most of them all coming due over the next few years. those debts could pose a grave conflict of interest and a national security threat because just to be blunt they give unknown people power over trump. people who could get him to do things that are deeply, deeply wrong for america. that is actually why as a rule the federal government generally doesn't give security clearances to people who have the kind of debt relative to their worth that trump has. they just don't do it. you can't get a security clearance. but he's got it. he's the president. just a short time ago the president then dodged questions about the damning report. >> mr. president! >> mr. president! >> mr. president! who do you owe the millions of dollars? >> silence. look, this kind of thing is not

acceptable to be a secret if you're the president of the united states. trump of course has kept it one refusing to let us see his taxes. we simply do not know who the president of the united states owes hundreds of millions of dollars to. all we have to go on are comments like this reportedly from eric trump in 2014. he said we don't rely on american banks. we have all the funding we need out of russia. how much -- we just don't know how much of this influences how president trump is running the country. we did learn in this report that trump's businesses are getting money from autocratic regimes in turkey and the philippines. trump isn't just making money from other countries of course but off of us the people who do pay taxes. "the washington post" reporting earlier this year the trump organization is charging the secret service up to $650 a night to stay at his hotels while protecting the president. these new documents obtained by the "new york times" also reveal, this is why i emphasize those of us who pay taxes,

paying for people to stay at trump's properties because trump himself only paid $750 in federal taxes in 2016 and 2017. one night for one secret service agent in one of his hotels. it is also less than the average tax payment for a household earning $20,000 a year in this country. their average payment $1100. his $750. and trump has for years made it very clear of course that he is making way more than $20,000 a year. >> part of the beauty of me is i am very rich. i built a great company in a relatively short period of time with billions of dollars of net worth. >> yet trump has avoided paying taxes for years though he has claimed it is the patriotic thing to do. don't listen to me say that. here he is. >> the tea party are people that love this country and love to work and they love to pay taxes and they want to pay more and more and they want to get this

country going. >> clearly trump is not one of those people. how does a person who says he is worth billions, only pay $750 in taxes? did he completely lie about his net worth? is it fraud? the american people deserve to know the details because trump was elected in no small part because he told the american people and many of them believed him that he was an incredibly successful businessman and in fact they bought into the very specific premise that he was going to run this country like he ran his businesses. >> what i am far and away greater than an entertainer is a businessman and that is the kind of mind set this country needs to bring it back. being a businessman is much different than being a politician because i understand what's happening. >> i'm a great businessman. i maed a fortune and i want to put that same thinking for the country. >> well, that thinking, his income shows losses upon losses upon losses described as chronic

by the "new york times." and hundreds of millions of dollars in debt. no one wants that combination for this country. so now we know the truth and we also know that one of donald trump's tickets out of debt is the presidency itself. as i reported last year, despite claiming that he removed his name as the owner of more than 500 major assets he is still profiting off of the presidency. listen to this key exchange from my documentary "the trump family business." >> what he did was took all of these ownership stakes and transferred them to six different corporations and llcs so on paper trump can point to his 2017 disclosure and say i am no longer listed as an owner and he'd be right on paper. >> but not in reality because all six were traced back to the president's trust. >> which is made to benefit him. he can take money from it any time. >> money from it any time as the

sitting president of the united states. we'll go to cleveland where the president will be tomorrow along with the former vice president joe biden for their first debate. trump and his aides are denying the story but not providing any documents to back up their denials and of course the "new york times" has an incredible trove of very detailed information. nothing to back up the denials from the president though. >> yeah, instead they've just been making arguments calling this a last-minute political hit job before they take the debate stage tomorrow night. even the president himself has been contradictory in the way he has responded to this by saying this is illegally obtained information and also saying it is fake news. it really can't be both. either it is real or it's not and the president has not been successful in responding to this. you saw how he only answered a few questions yesterday. just as this extensive expose had been published in the "new york times" and today he refused to take questions from reporters on it. he is likely going to face some

very tough questions on that tomorrow night because of course as you noted it is not just the questions about what he paid and whether or not that was legal. it is also about this portrayal he sold to american voters and so today he was lashing out at the "new york times" taking issue with the fact that now there are questions about whether or not he is as successful as he told people for many years. it is still very much a reason when i go to trump rallies that people say is the reason they voted for him. he also has questions he still has not answered about the specifics, about the years he paid nothing at all and the refund he got for $75 million when he did actually pay taxes and of course other things. the personal expenses he used, $70,000 on hair styling while he hosted "the apprentice" something marked as a tax deduction of course not really considered a business expense by most people but also what he paid his daughter in consulting fees when she was also an employee of the trump organization when she was being paid to consult. there are so many questions,

erin, and it is very likely and the team is preparing over at the white house for the president to face those questions tomorrow night. >> thank you very much. i want to go straight to nick ackerman, served as watergate prosecutor and former assistant u.s. attorney for the southern district of new york along with a congressman from texas who sits on the ways and means committee and our own abby phillip. >> you see here hundreds of millions in debt. chronic losses. you say compared to trump nixon was a, quote rookie amateur. wow. why? >> he really was. what nixon did was essentially back date one deed for a gift of papers to the united states government. he did that when congress had eliminated that deduction. he basically created a phony deed. it looks like trump has done a whole series of activities that could qualify as tax fraud not tax avoidance. this is a very important

distinction. the "new york times" headline read trump's tax avoidance but there is a key difference with tax fraud. tax avoidance is simply getting -- taking the tax code and getting the most deductions you can get under the code that's perfectly legal. tax fraud however is lying about what your income was, lying about what your deductions are, and there's a couple items that just stand out in that report from the "new york times" that really appear to go beyond tax avoidance. i mean the most glaring one is the one on the consulting fees. some 747,62 #it dollars that the "new york times" was able to tie in to payments that went to trump's daughter ivanka. there is no legitimate reason for her to get those consulting fees since she was being paid already as a trump employee.

the only possible reason for doing this was somehow to move money around so that it wouldn't be taxed to donald trump but would in effect go on ivanka trump's tax return who probably had certain losses that she could take against it so in the end the government gets zero dollars. all of this is -- >> when you lay this out, just a blunt question is, do you think trump could end up going to jail if he is not re-elected because of anything in here? >> no question about it and his daughter could, too. tax evasion is a five-year felony. it is a pretty serious crime and the more money that is stolen the longer you go to jail for. >> so you're saying if he loses, he, also ivanka trump and others in his family could be at risk? >> sure. absolutely. the only thing saving him at this point is the department of

justice's guideline that says you can't indict a sitting president. once he is no longer a sitting president, he is subject to being indicted. i think any decent prosecutor looking at this evidence will be able to put together a pretty viable tax case. that is exactly what the da's office is doing in new york at this point. this kind of shows you what they're looking at. >> i appreciate your time. thank you very much. i want to go straight to congressman lloyd doggett of texas now. you heard what nick had to say. five-year felony. he thinks there could be much here that could put the president in jail if not re-elected. do you think this is fraud? >> it is certainly very suspicious and we know that president nixon turned to the american people and said he wanted to show that he was not a crook and so he disclosed to the joint committee on taxation information that they explored and found that indeed he had under paid his taxes.

president trump has hidden everything. we now know from the great work the "new york times" did, the kind of work you did last year on the trump organization that trump hides everything. he secrets away his tax returns because he doesn't really believe in paying taxes. he lufs off as a free loader off the taxes that other people are paying. it is very, very appalling to see this happen whether it is criminal tax fraud, i'll leave that to the prosecutors and i think there are prosecutors looking at it in terms of the state in the state of new york and manhattan. but i am very concerned about the message this sends to americans out there struggling right now who know that a president who pays $750 as his total contribution for the operation of our government, our national security, our domestic security, other vital needs, that that is just flat wrong.

>> you know, one of the things "the times" points out and as we were pointing out obviously he is still benefiting from all of these things he says he isn't but they actually go through trump properties, the hotel, his resort in florida, bank of america, paid $7 million in 2015-2016, trade association paid over a million dollars in 2017 and 2018, right? this is while he was running and then as sitting president. that was allowed to come in. what does that tell you, kra congressman? >> it tells me maybe that is why things are so sorry in washington right special treatm. they got special treatment. he is so dependent on foreigners coming in and staying at his hotel and you can tell from the data we now have as a result of this great "times" investigative reporting that is because he needs the money. he's getting money from turkey, getting money from the philippines right now, and among the few of his profitable

properties to make up for the losses he has here. that plus as you noted earlier this huge amount of debt. he calls himself the king of debt and certainly he is but he won't disclose which foreign entity he is in debt to. it is very troubling in terms of our national security. >> do you have any idea of where -- to whom he is so indebted? >> all we can do is look at the kind of evidence you presented and on more than one occasion trump's children have talked about russia. they've talked about their friends in saudi arabia. we know trump just bragged about protecting the killers in saudi arabia, the prince who dismembered a journalist. that is the kind of thinking involved here. i just believe he does, he is doing what he told the american people he would do. he is running our country like his business and may well run it into the ground.

we see these tens of thousands of families harmed from his mismanagement of the pandemic. i think they're seeing trump's business sense in operation and we're all suffering from it. >> congressman, i appreciate your time and i want to go to abby phillips. when you hear all this, the context is there is a debate tomorrow night. today when the president is facing questions from reporters like you he just walks away and doesn't answer it. not going to be able to do that tomorrow. how big a role do you think this will play in the debate? >> erin, he won't be able to walk away but i do think we have some sense of how he is going to answer any questions that come up about this. i think there will be questions about this. the president and his allies have already started trying to turn this back on joe biden by bringing up unrelated conversations about hunter biden, hunter biden's business dealings or what have you and it is going to be an effort to deflect which is typically what we see from president trump.

what will be interesting to see is whether he does what he did four years ago with hill hill which is to say, you know, it makes me smart to not pay taxes. will he own up to trying to avoid as much tax burden as possible and how will that play on the debate stage when joe biden is running against him in this frame of scranton vs. park avenue? it is not clear to me that naught american public knows exactly how little he did pay whether that argument will fly. >> of course if chris wallace, you know, who will do the moderating, right, excellent and incisive questioner asks a question about to whom the president is indebted i would imagine he'll try to dodge it but yet the question has taken on such importance. it is very difficult to just not give an answer to that isn't it? >> yeah. i do think the fact he has been so studious about keeping this information from the american public is what makes it such a pressing question. it is going to be hard for him

to explain why he is fighting so hard to keep this information away from the american people. why he doesn't choose to simply vindicate himself. if it is in fact all just fake news he could simply release the documents and put it to rest. but he refuses to do that. and that in and of itself just like four years ago seems to indicate there is something he is trying to hide. >> joe biden of course is going to try to attack trump with these in what ways are you hearing in. >> you're going to hear a lot about these people in every day america, middle america, places like scranton, pennsylvania, and the midwest who pay more taxes than president trump. it won't be hard to find those people because most americans, the average american pays 16 times more than president trump did in the two years that he was president and paid $750. so you're going to hear so much about that from joe biden but i also don't think he is going to dwell on this. i think they know this has been thoroughly litigated in the media for many years at this

point. >> all right. abby, thank you very much. next, trump today announcing plans to distribute 150 million rapid coronavirus tests. these are tests the administration announced back in august. trump's point man on testing is my guest outfront next. plus a new book by a former top trump campaign manager claims trump wanted ivanka and his running mate and even actually polled the idea. a number of senate democrats say they will not meet with the president's supreme court pick. is that a big mistake? now temperature balancing, so you can sleep better together. save up to $1,000 on the new sleep number 360 smart bed and adjustable base. plus, 0% interest for 24 months & free delivery. ends monday.

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tonight dr. anthony fauci sounding the alarm on rising cases of coronavirus as we head into flu season. >> there are states starting to show uptick in cases and even some increase in hospitalizations in some states. i hope not but we very well might start seeing increases in deaths. >> all right. that sober warning coming as dr. fauci and cdc director dr. robert redfield raised concerns about a controversial doctor who is growing increasingly influential in the white house. i'll speak to a member of the coronavirus task force heading up a testing effort but first alexander field is out front. >> it honestly looks like business as usual. >> reporter: pre-covid florida in a post covid world packed bars and restaurants all weekend in south florida just days after the republican governor ron desantis dropped virtually all coronavirus restrictions. >> i think it is going to have a

huge impact. >> reporter: no more fines for people who refuse to wear a mask. the state's new daily case count has been well below the july peak for more than a month but the positivity rate remains over 10%. across the country new cases are on the rise in 21 states. in just the last few days at least seven states saw the highest weekly averages for new cases. with wisconsin recording its highest single day increase over the weekend. >> one of the biggest challenges we have is that some people just don't believe that this is a serious disease even to this day. >> in new york more than a thousand new cases on saturday, the most since june. a major cluster in brooklyn and queens forcing the city to decide whether to bring back restrictions in impacted neighborhoods. >> it is very targeted and focused in those clusters. >> all this as the nation's top infectious disease expert dr. fauci says the white house is pivoting away from daily coronavirus task force meetings and as the new task force member

and top adviser to the president dr. scott atlas was reportedly criticized by another top official. nbc news reporting the cdc director robert redfield was overheard on the phone speaking about dr. atlas on a commercial flight saying, quote, everything he says is false, and going on to suggest that atlas has provided the president misleading data. the cdc has responded with a statement saying redfield and atlas had differing positions on those issues and agree on many others. dr. fauci weighed in with this. >> well, most are working together. i think what the outlier is -- you know what the outlier is. >> reporter: the cdc has issued a statement saying the difference in opinion between atlas and redfield centers on three different issues -- masks, efficacy, youth infection, and herd immunity. the white house is responding tonight by saying the president consults with a number of different experts who sometimes disagree and he uses all of the information available to set policy. beyond that the white house statement continues by insisting

that everyone recommends the use of a mask including the president when social distance is not possible. >> thank you very much. i want to go now to admiral, the assistant secretary for health of the department of health and human services and has been heading up the testing effort in this country. admiral, i appreciate you taking the time. i know you have a testing announcement a hundred million tests to states and you were earmarking that for schools and 50 million to protect vulnerable communities a lot going to nursing homes. i know the administration first announced in august that the rapid test would be distributed and now we're learning it has begun this week. why did it take so long or is this always, was this always the plan? >> thank you for having me on. this was a real step forward in our testing. this doesn't happen overnight. this took planning for months to get this by now.

the difference between august and now is that they had to be assembled. the day after the authorization was issued by the fda we signed the contract. that doesn't happen overnight but is with weeks of planning to purchase 150 million. the first ones off the shelf went to disaster victims in oregon, texas, louisiana, as well as nursing homes in the areas of high community spread. assisted living, home health care agencies as well as hbcu's historical black colleges and universities and the tribes. so now that the production is up, we're able to start distributing to the states this week, 6.5 million to governors to use as they deem fit. hopefully for schools and other critical infrastructure. >> so on that front on schools, there are approximately, call it 56 million k-12 students in the united states and a lot aren't in school right now but to get them in school competently, obviously you can burn through a hundred million tests really fast. one of the nation's top testing experts who of course i know you know well and william hazeltine

credited for his groundbreaking work on hiv/aids spoke out about the testing plan you announced today. here is what they said. >> we need a lot more if we want to be able to test schools, colleges, work places, so i see this as a step forward but not where we need to be. >> it is inadequate even at its present level. it has to be ten times, 20 times that level to begin to make a real difference in putting a cap on this pandemic. >> ten, 20 times. step forward but not where we need to be. do you agree or do you think they're wrong? >> so, look. we'll continue to develop the ecosystem and have more and more tests. we are doing that. we have used every authority under the government. we've used all the technical assistance we can. right now we have 50 million of these a month. i absolutely disagree with the conclusion that these can't make a significant difference because they can. i was on the governor's call

today. every governor that spoke said this was a game changer. just imagine your children in school. if somebody sniffles in the classroom do they have covid or don't they? get a test within 15 minutes right here with high sensitivity. if they have covid you can diagnose, isolate, and do contact tracing. if they don't you don't send them home for days and parents worrying about whether they're exposed because you know right then and there. that is the way we help keep schools open. we'll continue to increase testing but to say these won't make a significant difference is just not true and is not the case at all. this is a step forward, a game changer. >> when you say 150 million -- going to ramp up to 10 million a week, when does it become a lot bigger per week? when do you start getting to i don't know what your number is but when do you start getting bigger numbers, 50 million a week or is that not yet on the horizon? >> 50 million a week is not yet on the horizon. we have pushed all capability throughout the country to be

able to get 50 million of these a month. this is not the last technology we're investing in. right now 50 million of these a month in most cases these are doubled or tripled in testing capacity and this is a significant advancement. you'll see new things coming but no question this is what people have been looking for. a simple $5 a test point of care. it is state-of-the-art, highly sophisticated. it is going to yield results for our school children, our infrastructure, and vulnerable in hbcus, the tribes, and elderly americans. >> this all comes as there is an incredible focus on the corona task force itself. i know you have focused on your role. the cdc director robert redfield overheard today in public talking about dr. scott atlas the newer member of the white house coronavirus task force who has a lot of time with the president. redfield was saying, quote, everything he says is false of dr. atlas and today dr. fauci hinted that atlas is a, quote,

outlier. that was the word he used in the task force. we reported dr. birx has concerns about his views as well specifically on masks. several of your colleagues have very serious concerns about him and his influence on the president. do you share that concern? >> so, erin, all of the scientists and doctors on the task force, we do work together. we agree on the great majority of things. but whether it is dr. atlas and dr. birx or me and dr. fauci or dr. redfield, there is some disagreement. there is a diversity of opinions. i think that is very important because science is not black and white. things are not 100% or zero percent. there's often shades of gray and it is very important we have an open and honest debate. the vice president uses a phrase all the time iron sharpens iron and we have a lot of iron getting sharpened and that is a very good thing. everybody on the task force contributes. there is a wide diversity of opinion. we all work on all the issues and we're just here to give vice

president and the president the best possible advice and he will take the advice that he sees fit for policy. >> and this is the reason i ask this question. i understand what you're saying. shades of gray and disagreement and that is part of the scientific method and the process. i get that. there are some things in which in this whole discussion there are not areas of gray and one of the basic ones is use of masks. you've made your view on masks clear. dr. atlas's point of view on it is different. i had an exchange with him on that exact topic. it happened to be we were talking while the president was live walking out without a mask at a rally in minnesota. very people there wearing masks. i wanted to play part of the exchange for you. >> the president sets the policy and i have agreed with his policy which is wear masks when you cannot social distance. >> they're not doing that there. >> yeah. but, you know, we don't put them in prison for not wearing a mask. i'm sorry.

i don't think he is going to be willing to do that. >> but he is holding a rally with them there. the bottom line is you do not think he needs to lead by example or stop holding these rallies, which go against his own policy. you think that is okay. >> i think the president does lead by ex-am plchlt i think he articulates the policy. i think he treats people like adults and uses common sense and i am completely comfortable with the president's policy. >> admiral, just to state the obvious the president does not lead by example when it comes to wearing mask. are you on the same page as dr. atlas on the mask issue? >> so i think i've been very clear. the surgeon general has been very clear. you've pointed out the statistics of cases growing in some states. we are not out of this yet. probably as many as 80% or 90% of americans can still be affected, infected with this virus and wearing a mask just like this one is one of the most important public health measures you can do.

you need to wear a mask when you can't physically distance because it will protect others from getting infected from you and it does provide a degree of protection to yourself. you have to wash your hands. i just want to emphasize and i appreciate you giving me the opportunity to say again that we can save thousands and thousands of lives just by wearing a mask when we can't physically distance. >> admiral, one quick question before we go as a parent. you obviously are an icu pediatrician. people may not know that. dr. fauci said we're not going to know young children's' role in getting or spreading this until december. do you have a sense right now children under 10, due think, they spread it as much as others or not sure? >> so, you know, there's evidence on both ways. there was a meta analysis published in one of the journals just today that looked at 32 different studies.

the overwhelming majority of the evidence says children don't really -- children under 10 or 12 are much less likely to get and spread the virus. that doesn't mean they can't because they can. so you would never make a decision based on that because they are less likely to spread the virus doesn't mean they shouldn't be protected and we shouldn't do all the things we're doing like providing testing to the schools to make sure everyone is as safe as possible. the evidence is emerging once you are adolescent you are more like an adult. once you are under 10, 11, 12 you are more like a child which is a different category of spreading and being able to get infected from other people. >> i appreciate your time. thank you very much. >> thank you so much. >> i want to go straight to dr. sanjay gupta. sanjay, loud and clear on masks. loud and clear.

obviously could have been an awkward moment but he had his mask there and wanted to make a point there. >> it is so interesting to watch this as a scientist and the person who is trying to talk about the medical reporting part of this because everyone is bending themselves into pretzels not to criticize each other and at least try and present this united front. clearly as you pointed out there are significant differences. the admiral is very clear on masks as every other person on the task force except for dr. atlas. i mean, what president trump has done if it were the clinical world is he has gone doctor shopping. people go doctor shopping because they want to find a doctor who will give them the medicine or treatment no one else will or recommends. tell them what they want to hear. whether dr. atlas realizes it or not that is the -- i'm sure he is a smart guy. the role is he is carving out that space where he is basically telling his patient what the patient wants to hear >> i do find it extremely

interesting that the admiral, you know, he didn't -- he slammed him without directly doing it. he was very gracious about it but he made it very clear he disagreed. now we have debra birx, the reporting she is distressed b his role. he was called an outlier by dr. fauci. robert redfield saying, quote, everything he says is false. these are stunning things to be saying about someone who was a stanford radiologist. what is your reaction? >> my reaction is you have the world's best, not just the country but the world's best infectious disease doctors at your disposal who from the start could have helped shape this pandemic into a different trajectory but were not listened to. that is why we're a he in the mess we're in and now this one doctor who again it makes no benefit to disparage him.

i am sure he as very smart guy but these are the world's best infectious disease doctors. this is not like going and getting a second opinion should i get my knee replaced or not, take the biotic or not? they are taking very, very risky decisions, not even their risk. this isn't about the president's health but the health of the nation. my reaction is seething outrage. you have the world's best doctors and yes there may be a variety of different opinions on smaller things but the big issues, masks, herd immunity, there is no -- there is a consensus on this. we're not hearing that. >> no, no. again, that is not where there is any nuance or shades of gray. right? those are where there are answers right and wrong. thank you very much. i appreciate it. dr. sanjay gupta. next one former candidate who has debated trump knows biden needs to be ready for anything. >> i think women all over this

country heard very clearly what mr. trump said. >> i think she's got a beautiful face and i think she's a beautiful woman. >> undecided voters react to the "new york times" story on trump's taxes. >> i'm struggling. i'm struggling this year. ♪ ♪ "hmm's and ahh's" heard in-call. ♪

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more dangerous and corrupt president than trump. he's harming our basic values, giving rise to hate, and he's selling out america to big corporations. i'm working to protect immigrants, women, communities of color, and lgbtq people. and i'm making corporations like pg&e and insurance companies play by our rules. we need experienced leadership to wipe away trump's stain

on america for good. tonight vice president ivanka trump. "the washington post" reporting a new book by the former deputy campaign manager for trump rick gates claims that president trump wanted ivanka as his running mate in 2016 and actually even polled the idea twice. according to "the post" the book quotes trump as saying she's bright, she's smart, she's beautiful, and the people would love her. outfront now, former republican presidential candidate in 2016, she has endorsed joe biden for president. i really appreciate your time. what is your reaction to this claim that trump considered his daughter as vice president and it wasn't just a light silly thing but a serious thing. it was something he polled and thought would be a good idea.

>> well, i'm struck that it is surprising news. it's laughable news. but honestly i think given the jobs he has given his children in the white house, jobs for which they are not particularly qualified, i don't think this is a big stretch honestly. >> a sort of an incredible thing to say. when you think about just what that would mean for nepotism. >> just for a moment, i mean, jared kushner is in charge of mid east peace and the covid response. he is not qualified for that job. that is the definition of nepotism. ivanka trump i'm sure she is a very lovely woman but her as a stand-in for working women when she has lived in the lap of luxury and had full-time care for her children ever since she gave birth, i'm sorry. she is not qualified to talk about the struggles of working

women. clearly, qualifications are not why he has them in these very important white house jobs. >> so he paid her, we understand, or she received -- sorry let me be clear -- she appears to have received about $750,000 in, quote-unquote, consulting fees from her father. and he deducted that from his taxes according to documents obtained by the "new york times." that would enable him to pay, un, less in taxes just to put that in english. former watergate prosecutor nick ackerman at the top of this program said there is, quote, no question that donald trump or ivanka trump could go to jail for tax evasion for this adding it is a five-year felony. note that she was already being paid by the trump organization to do the job for which he then paid her a consulting fee and then deducted it. do you think that he could really be in trouble over this? >> well, i think if he's committed tax fraud, absolutely. clearly, the state of new york is investigating business fraud of some kind.

we don't know exactly what. what is revealed in these tax returns are not only the opportunity for tax fraud as the previous guest commented on, but at the very least, what's revealed is he's a terrible businessman. his businesses have endured loss after loss after loss. he's been through bankruptcy after bankruptcy. it also reveals that he's in a high degree of financial distress and that this financial distress has been going on for sometime. and that's not surprising either but it is revealing the depth and the length of that financial distress and the terrible way he has managed these businesses. it reminds me i was asked in 2015 the one word i would use to describe donald trump and my answer was, entertainer. and the journalist said not a businessman? i said, no. this is a failed businessman. and i think we see that now with

these tax returns. >> so when you ran against him in the republican primary he attacked your career as a business woman, right? that was his thing right that he was going to run the country like he ran his business. here is some of what he said about you. >> she ran hewlett-packard into the ground. she did a terrible, terrible, terrible job at hewlett-packard. she can't run any of my companies. that i can tell you. >> and now we see he's in massive debt. and chronic losses. >> yes. see here's the thing. in business there are numbers. there's data. it's publicly reported. if you relead a public company. so my results were clear and i'm proud to run on them and to stand on them. he has hidden his results all this time. and now we know why. because numbers don't lie unless you're a liar and a cheat which it may turn out he is. but when you look at these tax

returns, remember that these tax returns are how he is presenting his business to the irs. so this is arguably the best face he can put on it. and his business is a failure. >> quickly before we go, the debate is tomorrow. you obviously have been on the debate stage with him before. he attacked your appearance in a "rolling stone" interview. it came up at the debate. here is part of the exchange. >> i think women all over this country heard very clearly what mr. trump said. [ applause ] >> i think she's got a beautiful face, and i think she's a beautiful woman. >> moments like that you can't prepare for. it just happens. what do you say to joe biden? because no doubt the president will try to do the same to him tomorrow. >> he has to stay in control. trump insults or he ingratiates. joe biden has to stay in control. he cannot respond to everything donald trump says. he must respond to what he

chooses to respond to and put his message out to the american people, which is, this is what a president looks like. this is what a president sounds like. that is joe biden. and this is what a president acts like. >> all right. carly fiorina, thank you very much. i appreciate your time. >> thanks, erin. so how are voters reacting to the bombshell report in the "new york times" that president trump paid zero federal income taxes for years, chronic losses, hundreds of millions of dollars of debt? martin savidge is out front. >> reporter: at the marietta diner in suburban atlanta the bombshell of trump's tax returns isn't on the menu but it is on the minds of voters. >> that's just a matter of how he runs his business. >> reporter: the latest polling in georgia before the news broke showed the race between trump and joe biden a dead heat. could the revelation trump only paid $750 in federal income taxes in 2016 and 2017 tilt the balance in biden's favor?

>> would that make an impact on your judgment of the man? >> the man is not perfect. i know that. i'm not perfect. but i think he's accomplished a whole lot. >> reporter: one look at ira pence tells you who he supports. and he thinks trump's tax news is a good thing. >> i just think that's wonderful. i work very hard at trying to pay as little taxes as legal. >> reporter: and this waitress, linda trumpani doesn't believe the news at all. >> here we go again. first of all from the "new york times." >> at a nearby booth nancy furera is furious >> i was shocked. >> reporter: originally from kenya she is a software engineer who worked three jobs to get through college and points out trump often depicts immigrants as the ones cheating the system. >> we have a lot of immigrants in this country that work very hard for such little money for

such -- and they pay their taxes. >> reporter: trump's campaign communications director calls the "new york times" reporting on the president's tax returns completely inaccurate. retired business teacher lemuriel adams says trump's tax returns prove he is no financial genius. >> i worry about that because of our young people. i don't know what they women in 2020 is not what it was for years ago. kathryn is staying the course unphased by reports trump lost tens of millions of dollars in bad business deals. doesn't this prove he's not the successful businessman he's claimed to be? >> you can look at it that way. i don't think that would be a measure that he's not a successful businessman. >> deanna sloan is something remarkably rare among georgia voters, undecided. the polling suggestions undecided voters to be in the

single digits. >> i'm struggling this year. >> sloan says tuesday's presidential debate could be the deciding factor. as for trump's taxes. >> it doesn't appear that this is necessarily a deal breaker for you. >> no. i wish i could say that it was but it's not. >> you know, it's interesting, erin, of the many people we talked to for this story, almost no one was surprised by the information contained in the reporting of trump's tax returns. his supporters say it's fake news or insignificant. those who are opposed to the president say well, they already suspected he had financial difficulties, after all, he's fought so hard to keep the tax returns from going public. erin. >> martin, thank you very much. next, we got just about 24 hours until the first presidential debate. the trump campaign coming out with a warning to his allies. do not under estimate joe biden. hey allergy muddlers... achoo! ...do your sneezes turn heads?

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and raise property taxes w$11 billion a year? small businesses get saddled with big tax bills they can't pay. they're forced to cut jobs. or, pass on higher costs to consumers. that means we pay more for everything like gas, food, utilities and health care. and the cost of living in california

gets even more expensive. now is the wrong time to raise taxes on californians. vote no on prop. 15. in the tubbs fire. the flames, the ash, it was terrifying. thousands of family homes are destroyed in wildfires. families are forced to move and higher property taxes are a huge problem. prop 19 limits taxes on wildfire victims so families can move without a tax penalty. nineteen will help rebuild lives. vote 'yes' on 19. you're looking inside the hall in cleveland where president trump and joe biden will face-off tomorrow in the first of three presidential debates. the trump campaign raising

expectations for biden's debate performance. they want to set the bar high telling congressional allies do not under estimate his abilities in a debate. this may be where he shines and they are trying to set the stage for of course he should. he has 47 years of practice. chris coons has been advising the former vice president as he gets ready for the crucial debate. single digit in georgia like much across the country. they are in really important places. president trump is showing himself to be an unpredictable debater. carly f c >> erin, great to be on with you. as we know, donald trump had a decade as a successful reality tv star and a master of spectacle of distraction of the personal attack of the eighth grade bullying jab and of

dramatically changing the subjects. so what i expect tomorrow night is that joe is going to have to carry and fend off a series of offensive and baseless personal attacks and keep reminding us what is at stake. this debate is not about donald trump and the ways he is alarming and unconventional and distressing to listen to or have as president but it's really about us. it's about the american people and that joe biden has the experience, the compassion and the character to get us out of this pandemic and this terrible recession that unlike trump who divides us as a nation, joe has the spirit and the capability to bring us together as a country. >> so part of the topics will be the supreme court and on that front just a moment ago, your colleague on the senate judiciary committee, kamala harris, vice presidential candidate was asked if she would meet with judge amy coney barrett. here is what she said.

>> i'm sure that will happen. let's see how everything works out. >> all right. that seems like a basic thing. she'll meet with her. you're also going to meet with judge barrett. several democrats including minority leader chuck schumer say they won't. are they making a mistake? >> frankly, what they are trying to do is highlight unhow unacceptable this process is. i understand that. frankly, it's a tough choice but between giving some legitimate to something we shouldn't be doing, the highly partisan nomination with 36 days before an election where more than half the states are voting but i think to miss the opportunity to highlight for the american people the consequences of judge barrett's confirmation hearing would be a missed opportunity. >> so let me ask you one thing to this point. i understand your point about the timing, but yet, a harvard

law professor testified in favor of trump's impeachment last year and said he's known barrett for more than 20 years and she's more than qualified and it's better for the united states to have a brilliant and principle lawyer on the bench than a weaker candidate. that's barrett. what do you say to that? is it possible the timing is unfortunate? she's qualified, capable and deserves her spot. >> what i would say frankly is that this isn't about her qualifications. it's about the motivation of donald trump in picking her. there are two things that president trump said he needed her on this court to do, one is to decide any election related dispute in his favor and the other is to overturn the affordable care act. the affordable care act hangs by a thread. it was chief justice roberts that decided a 5-4 decision upholding the constitutionality eight years ago and judge

barrett criticized that decision. that's on the docket of the supreme court just a week after the election and erin, as you well know, justice ginsburg dedicated her life to equality and affordable care act dto not discrime nate against women. >> we'll have time as the hearings commence. thank you for your time tonight and thanks to all of you for yours. "ac 360" starts now. good evening. the wealthiest president ever does not want to talk about reporting that says he paid less in federal income taxes in his first year in office than perhaps any president on record and maybe less than most tax paying americans. tonight, we'll look at the legal and national security were cases and there are many but first, the simple striking facts starting with the president's odd silence. he had a chance to talk when he was in front of the microphone twice today but walked away on both