it is the top of the hour. i'm brianna keilar. we are hours away from the first presidential debate between president trump and former vice president joe biden, which you can watch here on cnn. any minute now the president is expected to leave the white house on his way to cleveland where tonight's showdown will take place. it's a city used to high-profile events but nothing like this during a pandemic. slue of changes have been implemented all in an effort to protect those who are involved here. here is what you can expect tonight. trump and biden will be standing on opposite sides of the stage. they won't shaek hands with each other or the moderate, chris wallace. there will be no opening statements. only a small number of ticketed guests will be allowed and everyone in attendance must undergo covid testing. there will be no post-debate spin room for candidates and

surrogates to claim victory and try to control the narrative. how has the president been preparing for the debate, kaitlin? >> reporter: maybe not as much as somebody would expect. the president has only done sporadic question and answer sessions, we're told, brianna, over the past several weeks. he was doing it sunday and yesterday. chris christi has been helping the president with his preparation leave the white house a few hours ago. before he leaves the white house he's getting in a last-minute session. before a debate like this, which the president even did in 2016 with chris christi playing hillary clinton, where you have someone stand in as your opponent. the president was pretty resistant to that idea even though advisers tried to get him to do so. they did those q & a sessions. the president seems to feel he's best when he's off the cuff and takes questions every day.

efeels that's the best preparati preparation. one thing he will be asked about tonight, brianna is that "new york times" investigation into the president's finances, something he he has not really responded to until initially after it broke and yesterday he deflected and did not take questions from reporters in the rose garden. this could be the one opportunity where the president and joe biden are on stage together and he is going to be asked about that, along with several other issues, of course, the handling of the coronavirus pandemic, the racial tensions in the country and that newly vacant supreme court seat that the president is trying to fill before the election. those are going to be the debates. of course, there is always a mixture of uncertainty when it comes to donald trump being on stage. one thing we've seen play out over the last several weeks is the president has tried to downplay really what to expect for joe biden. portraying him as unfit for office, weak, not a good candidate. not going to be a good debateer. that's something that aides have tried to flip the switch on in recent days because they're worried it will backfire on them

tonight if joe biden does show up and they've set a pretty low bar for him. as these two go head-to-head for 90 minutes in this room, brianna. >> two hours of preparation. it's pretty stunning. i feel like i use that word too much but, wow! >> yeah. two hours is not what people would expect. that's what he had done, based on our reporting, as of yesterday. they did another one yesterday and it's not clear how long they went for today. clearly, they felt like they needed to squeeze a few more sessions in. it's nowhere near compared to what we saw joe biden doing, where his campaign has been defending, which means you won't see the candidate anymore on a daily basis because they said he's preparing for donald trump. so it certainly is not the level of preparation that you would typically see from the president. we could see a stunt from the president, though. remember back in 2016 after the "access hollywood" tape published and the president then invited women who accused bill

clinton to the debate to throw hillary clinton off? there could be guests in attendance tonight. though it's not clear who those guests might be, brianna. >> we'll be watching. katilan live from cleveland for us. one thing that chris wallace won't be doing and that is fact checking biden or trump in real time and there will likely be plenty to fact check, right? biden is known to exaggerate and make gafs, president trump has told misleading statements and lies almost every day he has been in office according to a count by "the washington post." joining me now is the anchor of reliable sources "brian stelter and anchor of "s.e. cupp unfiltered," s.e. cupp herself. from laypeople getting ready to watch, they're curious about the fact checking. >> right. >> and they're surprised when i

tell them there will not be fact checking. calling balls and strikes, when it comes to people going over time not to tell misleading statements. >> moderator chris wallace says he wants to be as invisible as possible tonight. the blizzard of lice is about to begin. and as in a blizzard, it's going to reduce visibility. people are going to get numb. it's going to be up to joe biden to shovel the you know what. i mean, when truth islost, trum winning. it will be up to biden to push back in real time. because chris wallace is not expected to do so. debate commission says they don't want him to fact check. all the fact checks will happen after the debate. the problem with that, brianna, it will be true on cnn, nbc but i don't think viewers of fox news will hear a ton of fact checking after the debate. all these lies and smears are effective within fox and trump world. it's really disgusting the lies they're putting up about biden, saying that he might wear ai an ear piece.

rudy giuliani says he has dem t dementia. politics ain't bean bag but there's still such a thing as ethics, morality and call me crazy but i think some people still care about ethics and morality. >> it ain't bean bag but it ain't sci-fi either. >> yeah. come on. >> s.e., two thirds of americans say they would like the moderator to fact check both men. if you're dealing with two candidates that operate more within norms, you would say it's very tricky for them to weigh in because it's like putting their foot on -- they're wading in favor of one candidate over another but i wonder if you think it's a mistake not to have fact checking. >> no. in addition to the problem you point out, it's a clumsy and clunky way to put on a debate. if i'm watching from home and both candidates are being

interrupted constantly by a moderator, who is doing a good job of pointing out that wasn't true and this wasn't true and then they each get a chance to respond, i don't think it's the best use of time. i think it's already asking a lot to have us tune in for as long as we are and as late as we are in the evening. and to brian's point, i think it's just more effective to have the candidates do it themselves. for biden to say, that's a lie, president trump, and here is why. it's a lie because your record is weak. you can't tell the truth or for trump to say that's a lie. joe biden's wrong about this and here's what i've done. i think that would go a lot farther for both candidates' voters and independents, undecideds and moderates than real-time fact checking from the moderator. >> brian, you touched on some of the baseless conspiracy theories that some of the president's supporters are throwing around. this is what rudy giuliani and

former white house dr. ronnie jackson have said on fox news. >> obviously something is going on with this man at this point. they keep him locked away for 90% of the time. when they have a little window where they think he might be able to put a few sentences together, they break him out, have him read from a monitor. it's reasonably to ask if he is being medicated because he looks more energetic than he has in the past few months. >> the man has dementia. maybe he's taking adderol or attention deficit disorder. >> that's why the president wants to do a drug test. >> that is your opinion. it will be interesting to see what happens tonight. >> no, no, it's not just my opinion. >> none of this is based in facts, in fact, right? ronny jackson himself has shown himself to have dramatic flare,

at best, and very undoctor-like conduct in some of his commentary, right? fox news correspondents pointed out to rudy giuliani, we're not doctors, but this is out there in the public. and like we're saying here, s.e., this is what brian said. it's not like on fox news, for instance, viewers are going to get any pushback on that either. >> it's also pretty rich, considering, you know, trump's, i think, pretty evident mental decline. he has trouble finishing sentencing, not going off on tangents, late-night twitter rants. it's a rich line of attack. it is a carbon copy of what trump did in 2016. and that lethal combination of conspiracy theories around hillary clinton and her health. and then some fumbles on her campaign's behalf really did cement a narrative that was not

true, which was that she had everything from parkinson's to ms to seizures to heart disease. by september of 2016, the polling on concern for her health had shifted nearly 20 points. august 2016, 26% of people thought she was in poor health. september 2016, 42% of people thought she was in poor health. it didn't have to be true to become true enough. and biden needs to take those conspiracy theories and these smears seriously, and combat them with transparency, openness and an availability to the media that we, i think, frankly haven't seen enough. >> all the excuses ahead of time so if trump has -- they could say biden was doping, getting answers through his ear piece. they're setting excuses ahead of time in case trump doesn't do

well. fox is feeding all these ideas ahead of time. i go back to ethics, brianna. asymmetric polarization. right-wing voters are moved further to the right, become %-p. the same thing is happening in these campaigns. there's asymmetric lying and asymmetric nastiness. lies and smears from trump's side are so much nastier and disgusting than anything from the biden campaign. the biden campaign is out there trying to respond to this nutiness in real time. they have to be transparent about this and know what they're up against. they're up against people who are shamelessly lying in front of millions of viewers. and, you know, look, brianna, we can check it, call it out. i'm glad that's what you do. that's the only option in this environment right now. >> you said nutiness. this is so wild we're talking about this. >> right. >> it's a presidential debate not the tour de france. this is so bizarre.

s.e. cupp, brian stelter, thanks to both of you for talking about this. the president trump used to claim he's the king of debt and his tax returns confirm just that. the big question for some of that debt is to who is it owed? experts and former officials are concerned that amount of debt could give foreign leaders leverage over an american president. the times report reveals he made $73 million overseas since taking office. susan hennechlt ssy is legal analyst for us, a former attorney for the national security agency, and she's a senior fellow at the brookings institute. so, susan, how does this likely existence of foreign debt and really debt, period, of this size offer ways that a foreign ent entity or government could flups the president? >> right. so we're really concerned any

time there's any source of influence over the president or anyone in government being made not on behalf of the national interest of the united states but instead on personal and financial interests. these tax returns show, one, the extent to which despite promising not to have any new foreign deals in office, the president continues to have somebody stangs interest business in foreign countries and this giant number, $421 million of debt that is coming payable over the next four years. the question, the reason why the american people really need to understand who the president owes money to is because, of course, that is a source of leverage. that is a way that a foreign country, foreign bank, foreign company might be able to pressure the president of the united states in order to make decisions, important national decisions, national security decisions in order to obtain favorable treatment, to prevent banks or governments from foreclosing on that debt, essentially to personally enrich

himself. that's something we really, really are especially concerned about in the national security space. >> so, if we're looking at individual countries here, let's start with turkey, because the president made $13 million to license trump tower istanbul, one million of that since he entered the white house. as president, he has acquiesced to turkish president erdogan, so egregiously, this is according to people normally in the president's corner, he pulled troops in northern syria, endangering residents. what do you make of that one? >> those are the cases in which the president has made decisions that aren't just against the democrats, but are actually against the wishes of his own party. refusing, for example, to apply sanctions to turkey after turkish president erdogan purchased a russian missile

system. the president's own national security adviser, john bolton, after leaving the white house, suggested that he believed that the president was making that decision because of his business relationship, and his business relationships in turkey. those are significant national decisions. turkey is a place in which trump's policy and decision making has been at odds with republicans, congressional republicans. it really, really raises the question, what is motivating those decisions? donald trump has never articulated cogent policy arguments for that and now we have a really strong appearance of a conflict of interest and a strong suggestion that what might be animating him, in fact, is attempting to line his own personal pocketbook and that's a serious concern. >> russia, as you know, has been this constant source of suspicion. the times report didn't expose any new transactions with

russia, but the president did make $2.3 million from the miss universe pageant and we've seen him repeatedly take president putin's word over that of his own american intelligence officers. how do you assess this one? >> these particular tax returns don't provide a lot of new information about what the president's relationship with russia might look like. we do see the amount of money he made from that miss universe pageant. we know, of course, that the president continued to pursue business interests in moscow up through the election, lied about it, instructed other people to lie about it, including to congress, his former personal attorney actually went to jail in part for telling lies about those business interests, and it returns to the heart of the question. is the reason why donald trump has this otherwise inexplicable affection or refusal to be tough on russia when it's in the national interest to do so,

because he believes it benefits his personal, financial or business interests? in the absence of an easier answer, this is yet another reminder that this is the first president of the united states who has refused to divest from his personal business holdings, refused to engage in basic ethics and transparency rules, releasing the tax returns himself. his own conduct has created all of these really serious questions, and they're questions that the american public, they deserved an answer to four years ago, and they deserve an answer to now before november. >> yeah. susan hennessey, thanks for that. >> next, two nfl teams shut down their facilities after a coronavirus outbreak. also a senate candidate in maine used his opening statement at a debate to cut up a bunch of face masks which help stop the spread of coronavirus. what's that about? plus i'll be speaking to a political analyst who said we would be wrong to underestimate

president trump on the debate stage tonight even though he has only prepared for what appears to be a couple of hours. he will explain why just ahead.

sudden coronavirus outbreak has forced the tennessee titans and minnesota vikings to temporarily shut down their facilities. andy scholes is following this for us. what have you learned? >> three weeks into the nfl season, the nfl had not had to make any schedule changes yet due to the coronavirus. but that may soon change. three players and five staff members of the tennessee titans have tested positive for coronavirus. they're suspending in-person

practice today. the minnesota vikings are also suspending operations for today. infectious disease experts to evaluate close contacts, perform additional testing and monitor developments. all decisions will be made with health and safety as our primary consideration. and, brianna, as for now, vikings are scheduled to travel to houston to play the texans on sunday while the titans are scheduled to host the pittsburgh steelers. >> andy, thank you so much. joining me now is family medicine doctor dr. amy burrows. thank you for being with us. >> thank you. >> is the nfl doing enough to protect its players? >> i think that the nfl should be given credit for having a system in place to identify and test the players. i certainly think that this is definitely a move in the right direction. it's a far cry from where we started when sports returned to

the general public. i have to commend them on doing at least this to protect the players. >> some stadiums have opened up to fans. there's so many fans out there who -- they would just love to go, right? they've been stuck inside. they want to go see their team play. what would your advice be to people who do want to go? >> so i think that, you know, if they're going to allow fans, we should still be operating at minimal capacity, like a tenth of capacity, where you can really social distance the fans. i know the fans want to go back. i certainly want to go back, but i do think that because there's soma symptomatic individuals out there that it's possible to be transferring this person-to-person without you even knowing it. so i think that we're still a little ways away from really when we should be doing that. so i still think we should be social distancing. >> i'm sure as a family medicine physician you are keeping your eye trained on schools that are reopening. there's a former member of the task force who admitted to cnn

that she saw pressure put on the cdc this past summer to downplay coronavirus risks to children as the president was pushing to reopen schools. this is what olivia troy said. >> in terms of the manipulation, the data, it was people within the white house specifically tasking more junior level staff to try to find alternate data, data that fit the narrative that they wanted, which was it only effects people above the age of 75 and it doesn't affect younger school children. it was all part of the narrative of we need to open up these schools, we need to open them up now. >> i've been speak with teachers, dr. burrowes. when they heard this report, they were floored. they felt they could trust the cdc. they felt like they could kind of read in between the lines to see what they needed to know from the government. this has shaken a lot of them. so, just set the record straight for us. what are the risks to children?

>> so, before i say on that, the cdc is the nation's health protection agency to save lives and to protect the people from health threats, okay? they're supposed to be above reproach. if that, in fact, is correct, then the cdc is doing the citizens a disservice and the cdc has always been the preeminent scientific institution and they should not be allowing themselves to be used as a puppet by politicians. i want to say that first. as to my opinion on children returning to schools, i think a lot of parents are sending their children to school sick, which should not be allowed. there should still be testing of children so we know the risk of child to child as well as the risk of the children giving it to the teachers. i still think we should be doing virtual schools nationwide and then when we have the students in schools that they should be operating, again, on a revolving

schedule so there's minimal capacity. >> and when it comes to, look, a lot of schools are not testing. do they need to be taking temperatures? i know that won't catch a lot of kids, but it could catch some. so is that something that should be done? >> i believe that, yes. you know, in my health care field, every building we walk into as providers, we get a temperature check, at least that. so i do believe they should be checking the children's temperature just to be sure. >> yeah. there are schools that are not doing that. it's wild. it's sort of like defies belief. i want to ask your opinion of something we've seen from a candidate who is running for senate in maine and was debating on monday night, and one of the independent candidates actually opened up with this. >> i respect everybody who wants to wear a mask. i respect businesses who want to wear a mask, but businesses and people should make the choices. as i said in my opening, what we have here is way too much government overreach.

and so again, symbolically, i want to cut these masks right in front of our viewers. i want to be the first senate capped date and your first senator in the united states to say i protest government telling us what we have to wear and telling us what our businesses are necessary and what are unnecessary. >> what's your reaction to that stunt? >> so i think it's stupidity. that's my reaction to that stunt. i think that when you're in a position of power, you want to do what you can to protect the community. just so everybody is clear, the people wearing the masks are the good guys. they're the ones who are trying to protect people from them, right? and that type of political posturing shows me that that person doesn't have any respect for other people around him, right, or respect for the general public. i have one word for that and it's stupidity. >> i don't think he should be trusted with scissors, to be frank. dr. adrian burrowes, thank you

very much. i'll speak to tallahassee police wiabout a party they bro up with more than 1,000 people near the campus. amy coney barrett on capitol hill with republican senators and there were awkward moments when reporters asked her about her confirmation. (ringing)

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judge amy coney barrett's nomination to the supreme court weeks before the election has galvannized voters on both sides. vice president mike pence being one of several officials accompanying her. >> we look forward to a vote in the senate in the near future, to fill the seat on the supreme court of the united states, because the american people deserve a justice like judge amy coney barrett and the american people deserve nine justices on the supreme court of the united states. so, thank you, leader, for the warm welcome today. we look forward to working with you. >> leader mcconnell if judge coney barrett is confirmed should she recuse herself from any election-related cases? >> that's it. let's go. thank you. >> minority leader chuck schumer

clinging to hope that he can schumer pledging that dems will keep fighting. a delay as you know likely. first debate between joe biden and donald trump. you can see it here on cnn. this face-off is hours away now. and it could be a defining moment in the race for president. ryan lizza is with us. he is a senior political analyst here at cnn. ryan, sources tell cnn that trump has largely resisted doing formal debate prep. the formulation is around two hours. that's wild. that's what it takes to make dinner. but you actually say that trump -- a fancy dinner, but still. you say trump is being underestimated going into tonight's debate. tell us why you say that. >> i think so. you know, i spent the last couple of weeks watching all of the republican primary debates

from 2015 and '16 and the three general debates against hillary clinton, and i have to say watching them, especially knowing that it all ends, that he wins the nomination and wins the presidency, he was a much more sophisticated and savvy debater than i think he is given credit for. he dominated the republican primary debates in 2015. now, he said a lot of things that were false. he lied. the tone of a lot of his attacks was personal. he did a lot of things that were just completely outside of the norms of traditional political debate. but he really was able to keep himself as the center of attention in those republican debates, which helped keep him in the news and helped keep him as the polling leader, really, through the entire primary. fast forward to the general election. very different dynamic. it's one on one rather than one

on nine in the republican primaries. he comes into those fall debates with hillary clinton. it's worth watching them again. he's not quite as manic and filled with grievance and throwing out as much sort of trumpy stuff as he has been, frankly, in the last year. and, you know, you talk to hillary clinton's top aide, who played trump against hillary, and he told me a story about how he launched a series of attacks in debate prep against hillary clinton on immigration, on job creation and on some of these other populist issues that he owned in the fall and she sat down in debate prep and said wow, he's right, these are really hard attacks to counter. and he was a much better debater than, frankly, i personally remember, rewatching them. he was able to come into those

debates -- he was still trump but a debate version of trump that i think if he puts on over the next three debates, he will -- he may exceed expectations. >> but how -- this report has come out in "the new york times" where it shows for many years he paid nothing in taxes and in 2016, 2017 he paid next to nothing in taxes. he has 200,000 covid deaths to answer for. no one thought this country was going to get away without some deaths, but a lot of those were preventable. he has record high unemployment in addition to that damaging information out of "the times qus report. does that change this debate? >> that changes everything. that's the reason why this is so much different, of course, than 2016, is that in 2016, it was very easy for him to run as a populist outsider against the establishment and hillary clinton was a good target for that. now he has a record and

objectively a poor record when it comes to covid. i'm more skeptical about how much, frankly, the tax issue will matter, but we'll see how biden uses that against him. but the economic record and the record on coronavirus, which is probably the most important thing right now, that is very difficult for him to kind of bob and weave and explain away in the way that he did when he was frequently pressed on his vulnerabilities in 2016. and, frankly, joe biden has been more of an elusive target for him than hillary clinton. no doubt about it. there are some major differences. >> i know we will all be watching and i'm curious after the fact what you're going to say about it, ryan lizza. thank you for being with us today. our live coverage will start at 7:00 eastern right here on cnn. you can also see the debate here on cnn after that. still ahead, president trump's commerce secretary says he plans to ignore a court order and end

the 2020 census count next week instead of the end of the year. more than a thousand people gathered at an off-campus party. i'll talk to the head of the police department that had to break this up next. with the ww app, our weight loss program is easier. it doesn't feel like work. it does feel really easy. and you have all of the tools you need to be successful. with hundreds of zeropoint foods, i've lost 91 pounds. the personalized recipes allow us to make something quick, healthy, and that we know we'll enjoy. i feel better, i'm healthier. it's just incredible. myww your weight loss and wellness, all in one app. join today and get a free ww cookbook bundle! plus you could win an all-new amazon halo band!

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this just in. florida is reporting a big spike in coronavirus infections in the last 24 hours. 3,000 new cases. many college kid, despite those numbers, are still having parties. one near tallahassee that got so extreme police had to break up this party that included more than 1,000 people. i want to bring in alicia turner, public information officer for the tallahassee police department. thank you for being with us. can you tell us what happened here? >> what we know is that our officers first received a call for service just before midnight. once they arrived, you're talking about 700-plus vehicles, over 1,000 people and ultimately

it took hours to clear the scene. we also needed help from the leon county sheriff's office with their helicopter to get in and help safely disperse the crowd. >> how do you deter something like this when, obviously, people are just flauting regulations and the law? >> i mean, right now we're just asking for voluntary compliance. we know that people have been cooped up. we know people enjoy socializing and kind of want to get back to normal but right now that's just not something we can do. we're asking for people in the public to try to do what they can to remain safe. >> okay. alicia, i want to thank you so much. this is kind of astounding that folks are doing this, but we appreciate the work that you're doing. thank you for being on. the biden campaign launching a big attack against facebook for its role in spreading disinformation and conspiracy theories. we'll have that next. - [narrator] ordering chipotle for the family?

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the unfair money bail system. he, accused of rape. while he, accused of stealing $5. the stanford rapist could afford bail; got out the same day. the senior citizen could not; forced to wait in jail nearly a year. voting yes on prop 25 ends this failed system, replacing it with one based on public safety. because the size of your wallet shouldn't determine whether or not you're in jail. vote yes on prop 25 to end money bail. [horns honking] ms. robinson: we're ready! ms. zamora: ¡estamos listos! ms. duncan: we're ready! ms. williams: we have missed you so much. ms. zamora: we're with you every step of the way. narrator: making our school buildings safer. ms. williams: no one wants to be back in the classroom more than teachers. mr. hardesty: but we all have to be safe. ms. robinson: we take great pride in making sure all of our students achieve. ms. duncan: remember to wear your mask.

ms. robinson: wash your hands. ms. zamora: and stay safe. narrator: because the california teachers association knows quality public schools make a better california for all of us. disinformation. in the past few weeks, don junior has posted baseless theories of a rigged election and an army. >> their plan is to add millions of fraudulent ballots that can cancel your vote and overturn the election. we cannot get that happen.

we need every able-bodied man and woman to join army for trump's election. >> keep in mind, historically, something like that has been used to suppress the vote it's of people of color. it's well documented. facebook and twitter put labels on that video directing viewers to real and accurate information about voting. but neither social media companies say it violated their election integrity rules enough to be removed. elliot williams say former federal prosecutor and cnn legal analyst. ellio elliott, the biden campaign sent this letter. a month before the election. is there anything much they can do to stop getting facebook to allowings in t s misleading pos >> yeah, the thing they can do is shame facebook into acting. because in the public, the one thing both sides seem united on is that facebook is doing things wrong. look, one of the central legal questions of our day is going to

be what is facebook. is it a news platform? is it a social connection platform? is it a texting app? is it a political tool? and all of those things have different standards for what the platform should be allowed to get away with. the problem is on facebook, not up like tv like we're on right now, there's no obligation for equal time or even for fact-checking. so, that can put information out there and not really have a legal obligation to check it or correct it. and that's sort of what the biden campaign is touching on here. >> and when you look at a specific thing, i mean, this goes back to the early '80s, b gubernatorial race where there was this sorted of election sq. what it ended up so, having it expired, the campaign, donald junior, can do stuff like this. but we know what this is about, this is about a racist attempt

to suppress votes, elliot. >> well, we're going back to history and first denying and suppressing the vote of black people. look, if you look at what facebook's own standards are, it's they claim to not allow misinformation about methods of voting, whether votes would be counted and the logistics of voting. and some of these videos being put up by the trump campaign seem to hit all of those things, and seem to be clearly -- even if they're not breaking the law which seems to be facebook standards. it's clearly not good conduct. it's clearly suppressive conduct. so the question is, what do you do about it? and again, facebook's message seems to be, well, they're not going to make it a crime. all politicians line, we'll sort of wash our hands and move on. >> yeah. i want to ask you about the census while i have you because the commerce secretary wilbur ross just an nunsed that the

tru announced that the trump administration is planning on concluding the census on act 25th and this would defy a federal court order which says the census count has to continue beyond that. how do you expect the courts are going to handle this? how will they respond to wilbur ross? >> yeah, this particular court has made clear she's quite frustrated with the answers she's been getting. frankly, she's asked for a briefly by 10:00 p.m. pacific tonight as to how they came to that conclusion in the first place. look, there might be some plausible explanation behind why and how the census department landed on that october 5th date. the problem is given all of the shenanigans they've engaged in over who gets counted, how people get counted, it's just hard to credit them and take them seriously and that's what seems to be frustration from the judge. i'll tell you, it's not a nice place to be to have a federal judge annoyed with the answers you're giving. and the lawyer for of the government said the requirement

was outrageous. and she said, well, look, what you've done is violated the administrative procedures act and not given an explanation for why you did what you did. >> just, if you close that census early, shoo who do you t gets let out? >> it's clearly black and brown communities, and namely, communities that don't speak english well. well documented and historical. and again, there may be a substantive justification -- again, they use the term target date. what's that mean, completion date or whatever. there might be a reason for it. who knows. it's hard to believe it. >> we're seeing a pattern. elliot williams, thank you so much. just as joe biden and kamala harris are releasing their tax returns ahead of tonight's debate, what do they reveal?

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