and here we go, the coverage you all have been waiting for. we know you stayed up late just to watch me, don lemon, and that guy, christopher cuomo. did i say your name right? >> it works. i think we should call the show tonight "men with pants." >> because this is the first time we've actually worn pants in six months. >> one of the upsides of the pandemic is we've only had to worry about our tops. now we've got a lot to worry about. >> jeans and sweat pants and shorts. >> fishing shorts for me. >> it's official now. this is official. it's the first debate. and, yeah, we have a lot to worry about. this is our special coverage of the presidential debate. 34 days to go until election day. can you believe it? 34 days. but, chris, what we saw tonight was not normal. this was not normal in the course of a presidential debate. >> one other time in this

administration we have been forced to say it exactly as it is because the vulgarity is not in the language, it's in the reality. when he said shithole countries, we said it because it was so offensive, so obscene. tonight was a shitshow. that's what it was. no offense, if any kids are up right now, even on the west coast, you should go to bed. that's much more of a problem than the language, but america lost tonight because you saw the president be all he knows how to be. there should be no surprise, don -- >> it wasn't about whether joe biden won or whether donald trump won or whatever, but this -- the -- the american people lost. when the president of the united states went on that debate stage, he showed us exactly who he is. we've known it all along. he has said all along. we've known -- when people show you who they are, believe them. this president is insulting, chris, he's a liar, he's a bully and he is a racist and it came out tonight. >> this is what it had to be. >> couldn't he condemn the proud boy? >> no. >> couldn't he condemn racism?

>> no. this is a base election for the trump campaign. i know this. for all of the enemy of the state, i've never had better access to an administration or a campaign than i do with the trump organization. and they wanted him to be aggressive. and, you know, you'll hear people say, oh, they didn't want him this aggressive. yes, they did. this is a base election and he gave the base what they needed -- >> did they want him to be that way or they just say we know he's gonna be that way, so we're gonna make it work? >> i'm telling you, it's a both. their theory of the case was this. we're gonna come out and hammer him, and we will show that he gets adeled. he can't keep up with the pace of donald trump and that donald trump is mighty and strong and joe is stuttering and weak. >> but i felt like watching -- listen, we are in the age where people do things -- i felt like i was watching a kid whose doctor had prescribed him too much adderall. >> yeah, should not be taking -- can't just reach into the medicine cabinet. >> am i wrong?

that's how i feel. he was overly aggressive. just -- it's like he was hopped up on -- i don't know what was going on. >> look, to me, i wish -- i wish i could see it that way because i think a lot of people share your observation. this is the only guy i know. >> yeah. >> when threatened, this is what he does. and what will you hear over on fox? apex predator. >> it was great. >> and this is what he has to do because that's how they see it. might makes right. >> when are people in a debate, when are they supposed to get along, when are they supposed to be cordial and that kind of thing, but when you're the president of the united states, you should have some decorum, right? >> right. >> and some respect from someone -- for someone who was a vice president. a senior statesman. and not to mention, i think being that aggressive with someone, who america actually really likes, republicans really like, republicans like joe biden, i don't think that that was good for the president to come off so aggressive with -- with joe biden. >> yes, but, again, i think

there's a built-in -- >> not to cut you off. >> what are you trump? >> not that i think joe biden was that strong, but i think the president's aggression and aggressiveness did not come off well. >> i know that biden was coached for a while to not respond in kind. which anyone who knows joe biden will tell you, that's not his natural -- if you -- if you give him one, you're gonna take one. there's no question about that. i don't care what his age is, i'm telling you right now, he gives as good as he gets in person, but he was coached directly not to do it. did that work for him tonight? that's up to you. is that what people wanted to feel? he believes or the theory of the case within his campaign is that within their voter group, they don't want a bully contest. they don't want an angry mail contest, get off my lawn contest with trump. so they were playing their own game, but tonight was really about trump showing all he can be, and the proof in the pudding that this was exactly what he

wanted to be. this is exactly who he is came in the biggest moment -- the biggest revelation i've ever seen in a presidential debate, okay? he was given a layup for everyone except david duke, okay? >> yeah. >> he was asked by the moderator to tell right-wing extremists to step down. he says, well, who, who, give me a name. like he doesn't know any white supremacists. you don't know any names? you need me to give you one? the kkk, the neo-nazis, and biden i think said the proud boys. okay? they say the proud boys. what do you say to them? listen to his answer. >> are you willing, tonight, to condemn white supremacists and militia groups -- >> sure. >> and to say that they need to stand down and not add to the violence in a number of these cities, as we saw in kenosha and as we've seen in portland. >> sure, i'm willing to do that.

>> go ahead, sir. >> i would say almost everything i see is from the left wing not from the right wing. >> so what are you saying? >> i'm willing to do anything. i want to see peace. >> than do it, sir. >> say it. >> what do you want to call them? give me a name. >> white supremacists. >> proud boys. >> proud boys, stand back and stand by, but i'll tell you what -- i'll tell you what, somebody's got to do something about antifa and the left because this is not a right-wing problem -- >> his own -- his own fbi director. >> this is a left-wing problem. >> go ahead. >> antifa's an idea not an organization. >> oh, you've got to be kidding me. >> his fbi director -- >> gentlemen -- no, no, we're done, sir. >> why on earth could he not condemn the proud boys? it is insulting, but, again, we didn't expect anything differently, but as you said, it was a layup. i almost thought when i was watching this that he was going

to say, okay, i condemn the proud boys. they shouldn't be out there. he says they need to stand down and stand back. not stop it. don't contribute -- don't contribute and -- or stand by, i should say. don't contribute to the violence. don't be a racist pig. yet the president of the united states, who is supposed to represent all people, people who look like me, chris, who get attacked by the proud boys -- they attack you, too. they just don't like you because -- >> being friends with you doesn't help, let me tell you. >> you and me being friends doesn't help. but was that insulting to you? because as someone -- think about me in that, right? i know you're insulted adds an american, but think about somebody who is african-american or our jewish brothers and sisters who the proud boys always talk you know what about. they hate us. how do you think that feels when you see the president of the

united states not able to condemn that consider. >> i think it hurts. i think it causes tremendous pain. and i think the biggest mistake this president has made is that he doesn't care about anybody else's pain. he cares about his own interests, his own success. and he ignores the pain, the toll of what he says on people. and i think you know who should be most insulted by what he said tonight is real republicans. you are not about racism. conservatism doesn't have to equal right-wing extremism. think about what he did to your party. he wants you guys to own what nationalists. they are the right and antifa and blm are the left. he equates them constantly. yeah, fine, i'll say it about -- they're wrong, but what about -- wait, why? what is the good aspect of white nationalism? what is the good aspect of the

proud boys or the kkk? pick any of the groups that are known as the number one domestic terror threat. here's the problem with your argument. antifa, whether you want to accept what biden -- which did come from the fbi director, wray, or not that antifa is an idea not an organization. he said that. you want to reject it? fine. there are good aspects to any organization that is part of what you want to describe as black lives matter. black lives matter is an idea. systematic inequality is real, whether he wants to admit it or not, and the idea that it's all bad can't be true in america. you can't believe that. that everything about people wanting systemic equality is bad. but everything about white nationalism is bad. everything about the proud boys, everything about the kkk is bad. >> no, there's one good thing. >> what? >> for him. >> what is it? they like him. >> they support him and they vote for him. let me say this because you brought this up.

the proud boys shield. >> online right away. >> the proud boys have been designated as a hate group by the southern poverty law center, that rank and file proud boys regularly spout white nationalist memes and maintain afillses with extremists. tell me about this. when did this pop up? >> right away when he said it. just like when he said that bs in charlottesville, the white nationalists loved it. just like in michigan the white nationalists getting in everybody's face. you should talk to these people, he said to the governor. they celebrated. that is pb, proud boys, stand back, stand by. >> he knows what he's doing. >> of course he does. why did he think about it? what's the calculation? hold on, i don't want to give any room here because it's got to be offset. i'm no worse than they are. >> i want to go deeper. >> please. >> why is he doing it if he doesn't think it works? >> he absolutely think it works for his base. it absolutely does.

>> what does that say about his base? >> trump's base includes bigots and racists. is it all? of course not. that's why the deplorable thing was such a huge mistake for hillary clinton. you have systemic inequality on the bases of class as well as color. many white working-class families are desperate. that desperation is real. >> that doesn't make you a bigot. >> absolutely doesn't. that's my point. all of trump's supporters are not bigots. >> it doesn't make you support bigots. like when he said very fine people on both sides. i heard the argument on fox. i'd like to see what both sides are saying here. well, donald trump didn't say very fine people on both sides. he -- that it meant that the white nationalists and neo nazis were fine people. he was saying the people who were arguing against the statues and the ones who are arguing for -- there were good people on that side. that's not what it says in context. if you have people who are marching at a rally that was put

together -- >> right. >> -- by white nationalists and neo-nazis, how on earth, how the hell are you a very fine person? that argument makes no sense. stop it. even in context when you play the entirety of what the president says, it does not make sense. it is not what he said. that is a bold-faced lie. he said very fine people on both sides and he was talking about neo-nazis, racists, white supremacists. >> right. and, look, i think it's a scary thing, but it's true. and i'm willing to hear anybody rebut it as a presumption. only time this president is measured is when he's talking about hate. it's the only time that there's any subtlety. >> and putin. >> to his comments. putin, you know, one of the most embarrassing moments as an american for me was being in helsinki seeing our president next to putin and say, well, he told me they didn't do it, and i

don't know why -- i don't know why he'd lie. >> were you like this? >> you know how bad it was? >> yeah. >> as i was slinking away back to my hotel to drink as much aquaveet as i could find. i had international journalists stopping me and either apologizing, like, comforting or saying, well, now you know how it is -- this guy in egypt stopped me and said, well, now you know how we felt under mubarak. that was a sad moment. the only time he's measured is when he talks about hate. you know, so, because if anything else, he's absolute, he's immediate, he's 100%. >> by the way, which is, again, as you said, and the fbi director said, and, remember, when i said it, do you remember how much crap people gave me? >> oh, sure. >> don lemon is a race baiter. he's a racist. he hates white people. none of which is true because i wouldn't be hanging out with your ugly behind. >> true. >> when i said that white -- that white nationalists were the number one terror threat or white supremacy, i should say,

white supremacist hate groups, the number one terror threat in this country, it is true. >> that's what the fbi says. >> then why -- >> that's what h.r. mcmaster said on my owe show the other night. >> why is the president uncomfortable with it? why won't he say it. >> that's a great question. remember david duke? i don't know the man. you know he's the head of the kkk, right? punitively, isn't that all you need to know. the fact that you don't know him personally, is that really the criteria? i don't know him personally either, but i tell you what, if he ever said something good about me and people said do you like he supports your work, i would say, no, i must be doing something wrong. >> there you go. >> that's what you're supposed to say when you're not a bigot. >> do you want to do some fact checking. i don't know if we have time. >> houw long's the show? >> we'll be on until your old show "new day." daniel dale is here. >> was there anything said tonight that was true? >> you're over here. this camera. >> honestly, there was from joe biden.

i would say that he was largely accurate though imperfect, but from the president, this was another average of just nonsense. avalanche of lying, let's put it bluntly. so dishonest, as usual, from donald trump. >> well, think the category that matters most to correct, especially now, because voting has already begun. the president has a consistent drumbeat that we should know by now is not in concert with any factual basis, which is that unsolicited ballots are new, mail-in ballots and are filled with fraud, and there are always problems with them. what do we know about how long unsolicited ballots have been part of the framework of our democracy and what are history is with problems in that regard? >> so, by unsolicited, he means states that send out ballot -- mail ballots to people who don't have to specifically make a request for that ballot. i don't have an exact time period for you, but what i can tell you is that before the

pandemic, for years, there were at least a few states -- i think roughly five -- that sent out ballots to all registered voters. now, those include reliably republican utah. in those states, there is no evidence of significant fraud. they've run these unsolicited ballot elections with no significant incidents of fraud whatsoever, chris. >> and i can add to your fact check. the president said tonight, you know, they found some in a waste basket. that is partially true. in pennsylvania, they had a third-party contractor who was confused, as many people have been. philadelphia has that two-envelope system. you put your vote in an envelope and you put that envelope in another secure envelope. the third-party contractor wasn't familiar with the work. he has new. he or she. and they disregarded nine ballots, seven were from trump. how do we know that? doj put out that information that seven of them were votes for donald trump. now, as we both know in their handbook, their guidelines are that they don't politicize

investigations, especially during an election, but they put out that information. he also says they found some in a stream. i can't find anything about a stream involved in any of this, except his stream of consciousness about fraud and these ballots. >> i think there was -- and i want to be tentative here because i don't know the whole story. i think there was a case in which some mail was found in a ditch, some of which may have included either absentee ballots or absentee ballot applications. i also haven't found anything about a river or a stream. we know president likes to make his stories more colorful. i'll add there is so much he said on the subject of voting that was exaggerated or either just wrong. he was talking about the situation in philly that became a thing in conservative media today. he's grossly inaccurately describing the situations at these elections offices. he again claimed that there was fraud in carolyn maloney's 12th district democratic primary in new york. there is no evidence of fraud. even her defeated opponent tweeted tonight, as he has in

the past to say, trump is lying about this. the issue is disqualified ballots for nonfraud reasons. no evidence of fraud at all. >> what would you call the whopper of the night? >> it's so hard to pick, chris. >> that's the job, brother. you wanted the job. >> i know. i know. i think one of the first ones was his insistence that joe biden -- he said you want to take away health insurance from 180 million people with private plans. if you, like, were alive during the democratic primary, you remember this was one of the biggest fights between biden and bernie sanders. sanders wanted single-payer medicare for all in which private insurance would be largely eliminated and biden said, no, what i want is to largely continue the current system. i want a public option in which people can voluntarily opt in, but if they want to keep their plan, they can. so he's just making up that this is biden's position. >> my choice is that he says he has a health care plan, and when chris wallace asked him, where is it? he said, you'll see. and when he said he paid millions of dollars in taxes instead of $750.

>> that's a good one. i forgot that. >> i guarantee you within the next three days someone's going to put out that portion of the tax return. >> how long has he been saying "you'll see," daniel? >> people have done articles about this. it's usually two weeks. that's his favorite timeframe. it's coming in two weeks. literally years now of the health care plan coming in two weeks. >> you'll see will still be accurate if there's ever a plan. at some point he'll be right, as long as they put out -- >> that was the right question to ask, daniel dale, what did he say that was true tonight? and daniel would have a much easier job to point out. maybe you wouldn't have anything to say? >> of course there was some stuff that was true. my brain is on falseness. you know i don't keep track of the true stuff. >> listen, daniel, you do an amazing job. it's not an easy job, especially around the clock at these events. appreciate you. thank you, brother. >> thank you. >> of all the things we said, guess what text i get from my mother? straighten your tie. she didn't say, i love what you said, you look great, tell chris

hi. she says straighten your tie. >> you know why? because everything else was perfect. >> there you go. i got to fix and straighten my tie. >> now you're at 100%. >> we got a lot to get to. i want you to help me out with this. i want to bring in folks who watched this very closely, cover it all the time. senior political analyst mark preston and jennifer granholm, white house reporter for "the washington post." good morning, good evening for the west coast, good evening for the east coast. how are you guys doing? >> all is well. >> mark, i'll say this. i don't know if you agree, but i say it's a new low in a presidency of new lows. >> yeah, no, i think you're right. and as don and chris will know, you know, we've spent a lot of time together, the three of us in prepping for debates. prepping on the other side. working with the moderators. working with you all in preparing for these. and what i think we saw tonight and it was very clear early on this wasn't a debate. so you can't judge this in terms of who won the debate.

it's who came out of this at the end of the night for that small sliver of undecided voters who are going to say to themselves, this is who i want to lead the country for the next four years? it's certainly what we saw tonight, it hardened both sides. people who love trump are going to think he did a great job. we know he didn't. people who love joe biden think he did a great job. i actually didn't think he did a great job, but the fact is trump was so over the top, so out of control, so lack of decency, seeing tonight, that it really helped joe biden immensely. >> listen, i don't disagree with you because i don't think that joe biden's performance was that strong. >> right. >> but i think that he spent way too much time responding to what donald trump said instead of to what chris wallace said. he should have just innored trump and kept on with his answers. i know that's sometimes very tough to do. but i think, jennifer, there was a collective -- could this man

just shut up? i'm saying is very nicely. i can't say that word. we said the s-show word, but i think people were saying, can he just shut the hell up and let the guy finish? what do you think, no? >> yes. when joe biden said, will you shut up, man? he spoke for the nation. and i, you know, to -- to your -- i actually thought that joe biden did a really good job tonight because can you imagine how difficult it is with this guy in your ear the whole time saying, no, no, jabber, jabber. you can't even, you know, you can't even communicate. the best part of joe biden's night was when he looked to the camera several times, broke that third wall, and said to people, you know, you are an american at the end. he said the whole thing, you are an american. you can control this. you vote. or when he said to people at the beginning when they were talking

about covid and he looked and he said to the people, he doesn't have a plan. >> jennifer, i don't disagree with you. i think that was -- that was probably his best moments. but i will have to say -- i do have to say, as someone who sits here -- and i have people yelling at me, you and toluse and mark and chris, i have producers in my ear, i have to keep focus and keep my concentration. >> you do it for a living. >> but if this guy, joe biden, has been doing this for 47 years. he's been on a debate stage. the former vice president, i should say. i should be respectful, you're right. the former vice president has been doing this for decades. he should not -- he should not fall for donald trump's bait. donald trump trying to throw him off his game. he should be steady? keep hier his focus and keep his concentration. >> nobody has debated anybody like donald trump. he is completely a rule and norm violator, intentionally.

that's why i think a lot of people voted for him. but nonetheless, if you are a debater, it is wildly hard to ignore the nut on your right, which is why when he said, "will you shut up, man?" everybody said thank you. >> toluse, just give me one second. mark, we do debate preps. do you think they had someone there interrupting him, joe biden, every time? they should have someone interrupting joe biden every single time someone asks him a question. and he -- >> me? >> go on. >> i'll talk about 25 seconds to answer this. look, i think that you're absolutely right and i do think the governor is absolutely right. where i think biden fell short, though, tonight -- and, again, this doesn't matter because trump was so horrific that it -- that it's not going to matter. the conversation is not about whether joe biden did a good job or a bad job. it's how bad of a job donald trump did.

and having said that, i think that joe biden could have brought a little more energy to stage tonight and he seemed to deliver that at the very end of his -- of his -- >> we spend -- i spend a lot of time criticizing donald trump, but i need to -- if we're going to do this and be fair, we need to say what joe biden -- i thought he could have been stronger on that particular part. keep your concentration. ignore trump. answer the moderator. trump is going to try to throw you off your game. just don't answer his question. keep on with your answer. toluse, let me bring you in. i want to talk to you about why this president, who is supposed to represent everybody, doesn't seem to represent people who look like me and you. can't even condemn a bigot, a racist, the proud boys. what is going on here? >> this should have been a really easy question for the president to answer, will you condemn white supremacists? will you condemn these armed militia groups that are going into to disrupt peaceful protests and the president,

really, essentially refused to do that. the said stand by, stand back and the proud boys took this as essentially an endorsement. the president using the broadest stage he could possibly have in front of the nation to say, you know, i'm standing with this group, that they should stand by, you know, for instruction. >> he didn't learn anything from charlottesville, very fine people on both sides? >> it's clear the president cannot denounce anyone who shows some affinity or affiliation with him. he thinks it's a personal attack on himself, personally, and the president had multiple times during the course of the night to denounce the white supremacy, systemic racism, instead, he said that, you know, the problem in the country is the fact that there are trainings that take on this systemic racism. that, you know, there's some sort of reversal and reverse racism, which is the actual problem. we've seen that over the course of the president's term. he actually thinks that it's reverse racism that's the actual problem in the country. not racism. >> i hate that because there is no such thing as reverse racism.

you know what reverse racism is? equality. if you're a reverse racist, that means that you are not a racist. so that whole reverse racism thing doesn't make any sense. if you're saying that a black person is racist against a white person, that is called racism, it's not called reverse racism. i want to talk about this poll, toluse. this is an instant poll from debate watchers. 60% democratic leaning audience. 60% said biden won. 28% said trump won. what do you think those numbers mean for their campaigns? >> if you look how the trump campaign is responding, it's clear he doesn't think he had a good night. attacking the moderator. saying the media was in the tank for biden. trying to spin some of his worse answers trying to make them sound more coherent. think they're going to look at the next debate and work with the format, more of a town hall-style format and probably not allow the president to be as disruptive as he was tonight, and they're gonna have to figure

out how to do that when you're answer questions from the american people and not a moderator. you can't be as combative as you are in this kind of setting. it didn't seem to work for him tonight, being so disruptive, and so sort of a kbrbully in trg to take over the debate. they're going to have to recast and figure out how to not only shape the race, which they're behind, according to all the polls, but also figure out how to get the president ready for a debate in which he's going to be talking to american people, talking directly to voters, answering questions from the constituents of people who are impacted by his policies. and he has shown that he is not sort of -- ill suited for being pressed about his record. he wants to say he's the best. done the greatest. when anyone challenges that, he gets his back up. >> but he does it and he makes it sound like it's true when it's actually not, and that is -- that's my whole point. about keeping focus, right? if you say something and you're emphatic enough about it, people are going to believe it, whether it's true or not. many people will. so president trump's strategy

was he interrupted every second. we talked about this. he attacked. he was belligerent. i want you to watch this moment and know what people got out of this. here it is. >> a lot of people died and a lot more are gonna die unless he gets a lot smarter a lot quicker. >> so -- >> mr. president? >> did you use the word smart? so you said you went to delaware state, but you forget the name of your college. you didn't go to delaware state. you graduated either the lowest or almost the lowest in your class. don't ever use the word smart with me. don't ever use that word. >> oh, give me a break, man. >> because you know what? there's nothing smart about you, joe. 47 years, you've done nothing. >> listen -- >> okay. let's bring in chris as well. chris and i talked about this in the -- as we were getting ready tonight. >> his nice, who is the ghost write gore his first book, says someone took his s.a.t.s. >> he didn't write the first book, by the way. >> he says he went to wharton. he went to fordham and had to transfer with his dad's

connections. >> university of pennsylvania. >> even with his dads connections he had to go to fordham first, great school, and then transfer. >> thighland. >> thighland. >> which is only the name of a strip club somewhere, not the same of a country. the yo-semite park where jews run free. i literally want to apologize to george w. bush for anything i ever said where i was insulting or drerisive of his intellectualism because now i realize we can do so much worse. that's what trump is, i'm bad you're worse. >> when he says you want to talk about smarts? he's projecting. my question is, mark preston, did that win him anything? did that gain him any support from independents or undecideds or women in the suburbs? >> i mean, look, some of those women happen to be part of the

proud boys movement and they were a little bit undecided then i think that they're on the president's side tonight. >> so let's hear from a woman in the suburbs. jennifer? >> yeah. no, that didn't do him any good. in fact, you talked about your mom writing you about straightening your tie. here's what my mom said to me. she said, and she's an older, white, former republican voter, and i say former because it's just this time. she said -- she couldn't even utter the word. such a disgrace. i hope nobody else but the united states watched this. i'm embarrassed. >> yeah. >> have you ever seen such a bully? >> yeah. >> he was horrible. but you got to give him this. on this answer, this was a classic donald trump distraction. because you notice what the question was about or what he was responding to was the 206,000 people who had died. >> yes. >> he did not want to get into that. so he immediately changes the subject to a personal attack. >> okay. so let me say, since you mentioned your mother, my mom --

because she'll tell me. she's mad at me. she says, don, biden was great. who in the world would be able to answer any questions with someone talking over you? biden was definitely presidential. trump was annoying and sounding like he was on drugs. >> anything about me? >> that's what she said. >> nothing about me? >> no. >> got to have coffee. >> sure there's nothing about in? >> there's nothing about you in there. >> check it again. >> are you still here? >> she did say sounding like they were on drugs, so maybe she was talking about you. but that's -- so that's what my mom said. my mom is my unofficial focus group. she is usually right on. she's sitting there. she watches news all day. she watches cnn all day. she has never been this political. she's never been this tuned in. and guess what? she is always 100%. so i'm wrong, mother. you're right about joe biden and his performance, and, yes -- >> she can feel that way, but i

don't think that biden took trump voters tonight. and i think trump -- look, if you go to fox news, they were loving what he did tonight. >> well, not everyone. >> they're saying he had a plan. >> not everyone. >> they weren't getting a lot of sound on fox, you know? >> it wasn't -- i don't think the anchors were -- i think it was the, you know, the people who drink the kool-aid all day. >> like i said, over on fox -- >> excuse me, yes, you're right. my bad. >> they were saying he did great, he had a plan and he executed. i think they believe it's a base election. if it's a base election, trump said everything he had to say to validate the anger that the base has towards the system, as personified by a lifer like joe biden. >> yeah, the president's been running on his base for the past 12 months, but that has only gotten him to 41%, 42%. >> is that enough? >> it doesn't seem like it's going to be enough. they say they're going to juice turnout, have a huge historic turnout, but if you look at the

vote, if you look at the numbers, there just aren't enough people you can pull out of the president's base to win a majority of the american public. there are moderate republicans, suburban moderates the president has lost and push agway with these kinds of performances that are so, you know, bellicose and so antagonistic and sort of keeps everyone's blood pressure running high that it makes it hard for him to win back some of the voters that he needs. there were voters who took a chance on him back in 2016 thinking that he would become more presidential, and it seems like he's lost them permanently. i don't think the base strategy is going to be enough, especially when biden is putting together a pretty strong coalition at this point. >> well, the people who thought he was going to become presidential, for me, who is undecided at this point? that's a whole another show. thank you guys. i appreciate it. great conversation. >> so, race mattered tonight. >> who is undecided? >> i haven't seen a poll that puts it above 10%. >> like, how much more? i don't want to be insulting. i think that people generally want to hear more.

>> oh, they absolutely want to hear more. >> undecided voters are already leaning in a certain direction? >> you have dissatisfied voters is what you have. >> yeah. >> i think, you know, the best you can hope for is people who say, look, i'm going to vote for trump and some saying i'm going to vote for biden. i don't think there are as many nose-holders for biden as for trump, but you are not going to get those people's votes by exposing what a bad guy trump is. biden has to finesse it and offer them something that they believe in more. >> did you see there is an internet meme that went viral that said -- this guy said, welcome to the restaurant. we have two things on the menu tonight. we've got rat poison and we've got a tuna melt. and then the customer says, unfortunately, in these covid times, that's all we have, right? and then the customer says, i'm not really a big fan of tuna. so i feel when people say they're undecided, what more do

you need to hear? we've had four years or five years of someone who is saying i don't like -- he's not a hero because he was captured. very fine people on both sides. shithole countries. paying a porn star. while his wife was pregnant. all of these things. taking away health care. and you want to know -- you're deciding between a tasty tuna melt and rat poison? >> i'm telling you that this is the -- >> come on -- >> i hear you, but what i'm saying is they know who he is, so what does that tell you about their desperation, their frustration, their disaffection, their level of humiliation that the still think he is better than what they'll get from an insider. >> yeah, i'm not so sure about that. probably the same as our producer telling us. >> we got to take a break. race was a big part of this and it matters for the analysis.

we haven't spoken yet. they said it in the segment. the words role reversal came out of the president's mouth tonight in a very interesting way. he wasn't thinking when he said it, but i think it was the most true thing he told you tonight. i'm going to put into context what he called "role reversal" tonight, i think it tells you more about where he is on race than anything else. lot more analysis to be done, and i guarantee it's the first time you've seen me and lemon on tv with pants on. >> so, my mom says -- >> people out there need men. >> but why didn't you do it over the last 25 years? >> because you weren't president screwing things up. >> you were a senator -- >> you're the worst president that america has ever had. you should go out and vote. you're in voting now. vote and let your senators know how strong -- >> are you going to pack the court? >> vote now. >> are you going to pack the court? >> make sure you, in fact, let people know -- >> he doesn't want to answer the question. >> i'm not going to answer the question. >> why wouldn't you answer that question? >> the question is --

>> the supreme court justice -- the radical left -- >> will you shut up, man? (♪ ) keeping your oysters growing while keeping your business growing has you swamped. (♪ )

you need to hire i need indeed indeed you do. the moment you sponsor a job on indeed you get a shortlist of quality candidates from a resume data base so you can start hiring right away. claim your seventy-five-dollar credit when you post your first job at indeed.com/promo more dangerous and corrupt president than trump. he's harming our basic values, giving rise to hate, and he's selling out america to big corporations.

i'm working to protect immigrants, women, communities of color, and lgbtq people. and i'm making corporations like pg&e and insurance companies play by our rules. we need experienced leadership to wipe away trump's stain on america for good. all right. we're back with our coverage of

the first presidential debate between president trump and vp, former vp joe biden. it was so bad the big question of the night is, should there be another one? why? well, you couldn't get a word in. the president controlled the entire thing bell to bell. he did not respect the rules. he didn't respect the moderator. he didn't respect who he was. and most of all, he didn't respect you enough to make arguments for you and to let them be compared to the other guy. he didn't want to debate and he got what he wanted. there was no meaningful debate. was there enough in that to see what you wanted? maybe. especially when it comes to probably the most explosive issue in our midst. with the pandemic, unless you aren't willfully paying attention to reality, we know what's going on. we know we're in worse shape than we should be, especially with our kids in school. we got to get to a better place. but race. tonight, the president answered the question that just a few people still have. maybe that both sides thing in

charlottesville, maybe it wasn't so bad. tonight he was asked to condemn white supremacists again. by name, the proud boys. tell them, tell them not to do anything. tell them to get out of here. tell them to stand down. he said, well, i say to them, uh, stand back and, uh, stand by. stand back and stand by? does that sound like you don't belong amongst us? not to the proud boys. you know how we know? they went nuts on social media, celebrating. they put out those words as a rallying cry. stand back, stand by. pb, proud boys. that's their -- there it is. look at their shield. a message that excited bigots. here to discuss, cnn political commentators mike shields and karen finney. good to have you both. karen, you saw who the president is on this. you can come up with your own explanation of why he is this

way, but does it matter or is it baked in? >> i think it does matter, and i'll tell you why. you know, chris, i've spent a bit of time speaking to swing voters, and particularly white suburban women who are kind of on the fence. some of whom voted for trump in the past and are thinking about whether or not they're going to do it again. the thing that they keep saying is, you know, i wanted him to shake things up, but not like this. i cannot imagine if they watched what happened tonight, the guy they saw on the screen is the one they're going to trust to get us through this crisis right now when it comes to covid, when it comes to unifying the country and bringing us together to deal with this moment of racial reckoning. they know he's the one who made it worse. it was interesting he brought up prold. portland. so i think it matters for those voters who are still on the fence trying to decide can i take four more years of this guy? even for the ones who like him. >> one step side ways to what this issue brings out about our

entire cultural dynamic. during our last election, i would have karen all the time and get sideways with who she was representing in the primary. i would call her finney and people said we got combative. it was always with decency. mike shields, we have disagreed in the past. i also respect you, where you're coming from. you always debate with decency, i think that matters more than ever because we've forgotten it. are we going to agree with me? my job is to be a prick, but i want you to know i respect where both of you are coming from, including where we are tonight. so now the piece of sound that gave birth to these concerns about the president on race most recently had to do with what was seen as his position after charlottesville with this piece of sound. >> neo-nazis started this. they showed up in charlottesville. >> excuse me. excuse me. you had some very bad people in that group, but you also had

people that were very fine people, on both sides. you had people in that group -- excuse me. excuse me. i saw the same pictures as you did. you had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down of, to them, a very, very important statue and the renaming of a park from robert e. lee to another name. >> right. and, of course, we start with the factual premise that the idea that it would be good people who want to keep up the confederate general, which is obviously an insult to everybody who doesn't like slavery, but mike shields, are you among those who believe the president wasn't given the benefit of context there? that he wasn't saying that there were good people and bad people among the neo-nazis? >> you know, look, one of the reasons why i was so disappointed with his answer tonight is because there have been fact checks and there has been a lot of explaining about what he meant after charlottesville, that he was not trying to say that the white

nationalists were the good guys, that he was talking about people that believe in heritage, and that sort of gets undone when he gives the answer that he gave tonight. >> mm-hmm. >> so, in fact, when he was asked that question, i was excited. i was like, finally, we can put that charlottesville thing behind us and he can say the right thing. i've heard him denounce white supremacists. i'm really looking forward to his answer so i can come on and talk how he denounced white supremacists. he botched it, in my opinion. >> did he botch it or is this the answer he had to give? >> i don't think it's the answer he has to give. >> mike, what does heritage mean? >> right. >> what does that word mean? >> well, look, i'm not -- i'm not defending the heritage folks. i'm saying that is who he was talking about, not the white supremacists. he was making a distinction -- >> if you're not defending them, are you saying they're not good people because you're not defending them? who would be marching in a rally that was put together by racists and white supremacists and

bigots? what good person on that side? and what does heritage mean? america's all of our heritage. it's my heritage, too. i'm an american. my family helped build this country so i don't know what you mean by heritage. that word, i think, sounds to me like code for a bigot. >> hold on. mike, explain it. >> don, look, i'm not trying to argue with you on that. >> your defense was he was talking about -- >> i'm not defending it. >> as if those are fine people. and so i'm asking you to explain what heritage means, what is so good about heritage, your word, that the president feels that he has to defend them and that you can say it is okay and others for -- for the president to defend the people who talk about heritage? >> sure. don, i think that there is a difference between a neo-nazi white supremacist proud boy, open racist. they are despicable people. they have no place in our

political discourse. i certainly don't want them in the republican party. i think there is room in the country how do we preserve statues, our history, talk about it, even the district history we have rather than have people tear down statues, but have a conversation how to handle that. that's a different conversation than flat-out proud boy neo-nazis that should always be denounced, white supremacy should be denounced and never be a part of our political discourse. >> well, here's what we know now, any benefit that the president would have gotten for what he said out of charlottesville, which i have always believed the answer is none to that because we knew exactly what he was doing. he was creating a false equivalency and he was equivocating because he didn't want to condemn it, just like he was with david duke should be cleared up. because once again tonight he was given a layup and he refused it. i tell you what, the sound bite of the night for me was when he was talking about sensitivity training. he was saying it's terrible what hair doing.

it's like a role reversal. ain't that a pain in the ass. really sucks for black people to be put in the position of what it's like to be black. that role reversal really sucks, huh? but it doesn't think there is anything like systemic inequality. that's what me said tonight, mike. listen, we're out of time on this. >> karen didn't get in. i'm sorry. >> karen will get in more. give you the last word. go ahead. >> look, the bottom line, i have to say, for people like me in this election, your president could not denounce white supremacy. nothing else past that should matter. it all matters -- i guess what i mean to say. but your president is fomenting white supremacist violence. so that's not taking care of you in covid. that's not taking care of this economy. that is not trying to heal this country. that is also not acknowledging the very real pain that black people and brown people in this country face. and as don said, our people built this country on our damn backs, and our president, we deserve better.

>> mike did say that that was wrong. that part. but the whole heritage -- >> mike is not a bigot. mike is in a tough spot. mike was open -- mike was open to seeing the president clear something up. >> thank you, chris. >> he wasn't given -- he was given the context last night. but mike shields and real republicans didn't get what they wanted to hear from their president. >> people say they want to have a conversation about the statues and heritage, should know who the statue is about, be educated about that. when it was erected, why it was erected and how much jim crow had a to do with it. because most of those statues were erected because people were upset after reconstruction with the progress that black people were making in this country. so they erected status to remind

people of color of their place. nothing to do with heritage. confederate flag has nothing to do with heritage, it's traitors and treasonous people. for people to argue about this is our heritage -- those did not go up after the civil war. way after that. >> my point is that -- >> hang on, i'll let you finish. when people are discussing heritage, should know what it means. code to many people just as confederate flag was for racism. for white people's heritage, not for people of color's heritage in this country. go ahead, mike. >> i agree -- >> i've got to get the break in and then let you respond, sorry about that. >> we'll take a break, come right back. that shot doesn't work, too compelling. giving you side eye on tv. >> not trying to take over your segment but when people say -- you know me, you got it. >> give me knuckles.

i got the antibodies. let's take a break. good talk. let's have more. ♪ dy-na-na-na, na-na, na-na,eh ♪ ♪ dy-na-na-na, na-na, na-na, ♪ ♪ eh dy-na-na-na, na-na, na-na, ♪ ♪ eh light it up, dynamite ♪ shining through the city with a little funk and soul ♪ ♪ so i'ma light it up like dynamite ♪ ♪ 'cause, ah-ah, ♪ ♪ shining through the city with a little funk and soul ♪ ♪ i'm a light it up like dynamite, whoa ♪ ♪ shining through the city with whether it's bribesoul ♪ ...or an overdue makeover. get all your pet essentials right when you need them, with curbside pickup at petsmart. and enjoy 15% off when you buy online and pickup in store. seaonly abreva cany to help sget rid of it in... ...as little as 2 1/2 days when used at the first sign. abreva starts to work immediately to block the virus and protect healthy cells.

abreva acts on it. so you can too. yourthey customizeres your car insurance. so you only pay for what you need. wow. that will save me lots of money. this game's boring. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ so are we. prudential helps 1 in 7 americans with their financial needs. that's over 25 million people. with over 90 years of investment experience, our thousands of financial professionals can help with secure video chat or on the phone. we make it easy for you with online tools, e-signatures, and no-medical-exam life insurance.

plan for better days. go to prudential.com or talk to an advisor. the unfair money bail system. he, accused of rape. while he, accused of stealing $5. the stanford rapist could afford bail;

got out the same day. the senior citizen could not; forced to wait in jail nearly a year. voting yes on prop 25 ends this failed system, replacing it with one based on public safety. because the size of your wallet shouldn't determine whether or not you're in jail. vote yes on prop 25 to end money bail. all right. let's finish this point. it's good, intelligent conversation to have. mike, don's pointing out the word, not to speak for him, nobody speaks better for him than he does, but reason the word heritage doesn't fit, suggests valued history, inheritag inheritance, something of

esteem. even robert e. lee said he thought it was bad idea to celebrate figures of the confederacy. what do you believe is defensible for anybody in the situation in. >> i'll be quick, i know we're out of time. but agree with don because people got to realize the schools changing their names were renamed in '50s, not 1800s and that was defiance against civil rights. lot of people are ignorant, i make distinction between ignorant and people with hate in their heart. ignorant people we have to talk back and forth. people with hate in their hearts, reject and shove them out. >> move conversations with this. >> given i'm related to robert e. lee on mother's side and slaves on my father's side, that's why we have to be bhohon

about what happened. and when the president says sensitivity or racial bias training is teaching people ugly things to hate their country, that's why it is so dangerous and as we think about the next four years, who people want to vote for, these things matter just as much as economic policy and covid policy. it matters if our president doesn't believe we should be honest about our history. >> thank you all, we'll be right back, appreciate the conversation. with a lifetime warranty. go from old to new. from worn to wow. the beautiful bath you've always wanted, done right, installed by one expert technician, all in one day. we've been creating moments like these for 35 years, and we're here to help you get started. book your free virtual or in-home

design consultation today. want conservative judges on i'the court.vative, this may make you feel better, but i really don't care. if an opening comes in the last year of president trump's term and the primary process has started we'll wait to the next election. i want you to use my words against me. you're on the record. yeah, hold the tape. lindsey must go and the lincoln project are responsible for the content of this ad. keeping your oysters growing while keeping your business growing has you swamped. (♪ )

you need to hire i need indeed indeed you do. the moment you sponsor a job on indeed you get a shortlist of quality candidates from a resume data base so you can start hiring right away. claim your seventy-five-dollar credit when you post your first job at indeed.com/promo whether it's bribes ...or an overdue makeover. get all your pet essentials right when you need them, with curbside pickup at petsmart. and enjoy 15% off when you buy online and pickup in store.

and here we are. 2:00 a.m. >> is that it? >> primetime. alaska. >> that's right. some people can see russia from

their windows, that's who's watching. >> we've got the first presidential debate behind us of the 2020 election. absolutely chaotic and combative 90 minutes plus clash between the president and former vice president. this is cnn's ticontinuing post debate coverage. i'm don lemon along with -- >> that guy. usually say the debate to end all debates. it's because it's good. this may be last we see because it was terrible. there was no winner. they'll show you polls, who knows what that means. but you lost tonight, by the president's design. did what he wanted. doesn't want debate. >> did you get anything out of it? >> well, i checked the box that it's over. exactly how i thought it would go. shocked that anybody is surprised that the president was

anything but the only thing he knows how to be. and biden, the bar is low for joe biden. what did you want from him? don't want him like trump. what do you want from joe biden? seem like he's not going to stroke out because that's what you're hearing from the right, not good, no acute, off 100 steps. clearly wasn't true tonight. if you wanted him to be like don and me, parry and riposte, step by step. that's not who he is. and who coached him. they have a different theory of the case. people that are equals are clear idea. people on biden's team wanted him to ignore trump, he didn't do it enough but that was the plan. this is what trump wanted it to be, strong for his base, tough on biden, ignoring all rules because everything but him is wrong. now, there was a moment of the

night ignored by many but should give it attention. >> before you go there. i didn't say was that all joe biden really had to do was stand there and be a decent person. >> yes. >> i think he accomplished that tonight. >> pretty low bar. >> rest is nit-picky debate, could have done this, shouldn't have let trump interrupt him. that's opinion. but he had to be decent human being because we know -- >> for a lot of people, even real republicans, real party people about partisan ideals that the party captures, biden had to show he's sharp enough and they don't have any concerns. did he remove all the concerns? i doubt it? >> i think his stuttering, something he's working on entire life, people confuse with mental

acuity. >> sometimes. >> friends that are stutters get caught up in their words. i don't know if you realize it, sometimes we wear these earpieces, sometimes you hear yourself one or two seconds later. very similar. if you try to do that, it's tough to hear yourself and hold your concentration. similar to what happens with stutterer. doesn't mean not smart or sharp just that that is how the mechanism is working. >> they have a different cycling mechanism. irony is stutterers have a faster mental processing rate. speech -- is trying to catch up. >> thinking accelerated, not decelebra decelerated. stigma that's untrue. rest of it is biden struggles from time to time, neither are perfect, right? this is a choice of the least unsatisfying choice for many of you. can talk about it north night.

tonight is about the two people you have. this thing that happened tonight you have to look at, going to hear about trump saying that he wouldn't condemn the proud boys definitively. told to tell them to stand down and not get involved in the election process. i'll say stand back, stand by. not what he was asked to say, so soft but proud boys loved it and put out a celebration shield with his words on it. something else he said, sensitivity training is terrible, that's why i canceled it, making people feel terrible. it was role reversal. listen to this. >> i ended it because it's racist, because a lot of people were complaining they were asked to do things that were absolutely insane, that it was a radical revolution taking place in our military, in our schools, all over the place. and you know it, and so does

everybody else. >> what does radical -- what is radical about racial sensitivity training sir? >> if you were a certain person, you had no status in life, sort of reversal. pay people hundreds of thousands of dollars to teach very bad ideas and very sick ideas, teaching people to hate our country. i'm not going to do that, not going to allow that to happen. we have to go back to the core values of this country. they were teaching people that our country is a horrible place, it's a racist place and they were teaching people to hate our country. i'm not going to allow that to happen. >> vice president biden? >> nobody's doing that. he's the racist. here's the deal. >> you don't know. >> i know a lot more about this. >> let him finish. >> there is racial insensitivity, people have to be made aware of what other people feel like, what insults them, what is demeaning to them.

many people don't want to hurt other people's feelings, but it makes a big difference in the way a child is able to grow up and have a sense of self-esteem. little bit like how this guy and his friends look down on so many people, look down their nose on irish catholics like me who grew up in scranton, people who don't have money, people of a different faith, they look down on people who are a different color. we're all americans. only way we're going to bring this country together is bring everybody together. there is nothing we can't do if we do it together. >> never heard the president of the united states use that phrase once, never said how great we could be together. not once, president of the united states. language i was pointing out, reason that trump said he didn't like sensitivity training is because people were putting you in terrible positions, like a

reverse -- >> like some people had nothing. can we listen to it. we'll stop it. >> very telling. >> listen to it. >> i ended it because it's racist, because a lot of people were complaining that they were asked to do things that were absolutely insane, that it was a radical revolution that was taking place in our military, in our schools, all over the place. and you know it, and so does everybody else. >> what is radical about racial sensitivity training, sir? >> if you were a certain person, you had no status in life, sort of a reversal. if you look at the people, paying people hundreds of thousands of dollars to teach very bad ideas and frankly very sick ideas and really -- >> look. here's what he's talking about. >> certain person. >> coming from place of ignorance, once again something he doesn't know about, didn't read about, analyze.

but here's what someone told him, if you're certain kind of person, that means white. you were put in position to understand his experience and to him, that's degrading thing. don't make me pretend to be him that's racist. racist for the white person to understand the struggles of the black person. that's what he's saying, that's who he is. i thinks putting a white person in the position of what it would be like to be black is not fair to them but doesn't think anything unfair is happening to black people in this country. it's not going to get the attention because nuanced. but it's root of who he is. republicans saying other people put words in his mouth, bs. he doesn't believe in systemic inequality because he thinks it's bad for him to put that experience in the black

experience. >> you know how much i step in. you know, say it white man. >> certain kinds of people. black people weren't offended by sensitivity training. >> here's what i love about you. >> go on. >> and about our relationship. people won't say the you know what that we say because they're afraid or because they just don't get it, right? they don't get it. deep down people know it's wrong. you see the people out there who are the types that the president is talking about, with the flags, with the yelling at people -- see them with the trump flag higher than american flag, someone from military family, i'm like they shouldn't be doing that, american flag should have been front and center, high. when i see aggressive fu behavior they have? when wr does that come from?

never see the other side yelling in somebody's face biden! it's just that aggressive behavior that he encourages in people. just like what he did tonight. his performance on that stage. that you can bully people, that you can get into their face. he is changing the societal norms and way people think, what people think is right. how they should conduct themselves. how they should be able to treat you. what sort of power or control they should have over you. that is what he is doing to this country. and for all in that sound bite you had there, encapsulates who he is and what he is doing to this country. what they did, they put people in positions they should not have been in, unfair, and made them see the reverse.

>> by the way, prescription for getting rid of bigotry. >> that is a prescription -- the prescription for what we should do to understand that what donald trump did tonight is what my mother, your mother, almost every woman, probably your wife if she is in a corporate setting, when they sit in a board room, office or meeting and they're man planed or have the same idea as man and guys goes yeah, well, and when guy says it, he's right. guys should be put in position of how women feel. if donald trump gave you a headache, you thought he was bully, you saw something you wouldn't want your kid to be, that's how women feel in this country when they have to be in a position where a man who is a chauvinist or thinks he should be in the position because he's a man, exactly how they feel.

get off of me. stop talking over me. my ideas are just as important as you. i should be in this position as a woman. i deserve to have that -- as much power as you. that's what's happening. we as men should understand what that is like. >> or -- >> or you as white person should understand what it is like to be black. >> or be threatened by it because someone is telling you what they really want is to give you my position and that more diversity means less white guys. >> that's not what it is. >> and more people coming in means me getting less, more opportunity for you means less for me, more change and progress and different identities and being accepting of lifestyles means the ones i know are going to be swallowed up and it makes people scared and he's saying you're right to be scared. you got to fight. >> tell you something, you don't

have to give me anything that's for you, i just want the opportunity to get into the position so i can be me. you can keep your position. >> you're already there, buddy. >> that's what everybody wants. >> i think you're in the center -- >> i don't want your position as white guy. i want the position i'm in as black american so i that can contribute to the culture and the conversation. >> just want a chance to succeed or fail on your own merits. >> i'm with you but you're being reasonable, i'm trying to get people to not like you. if they're afraid of you, they'll vote for me. >> lot of moments tonight. joe biden slamming donald trump on the coronavirus response. you suffered with it, chris, he's saying president is fool on masks and social distancing. for his part, president trump mocked and belittled joe biden

and said said he's doing a great job. doctor, appreciate you being with us at this hour. president trump claiming did a phenomenal job with the virus. 200,000 americans have died, about fifth of the global deaths. would you classify the u.s. response as phenomenal? >> thanks for having me, don. hi chris. covid is third leading cause of death in the united states. only had it nine months. only heart disease and cancer kill more people this year in the united states than covid. how can anybody say that creating the third largest, greatest killer is doing a good job? no, high proportion of those -- unknowable percent of those deaths could have been avoided if the president and trump administration had acted

earlier. we know from some modeling at columbia university if they had acted one week earlier, might have saved 30,000 lives. two weeks earlier, closer to 50,000. that's just modeling, it's hard to predict these things. but no, it's the opposite of a great job. one of the worst jobs ever been done in any pandemic or epidemic in the united states. >> let's do fact checking. joe biden mocked the president for his comments on injecting bleach and disinfectants. the vice president tonight, watch this. >> by the way, maybe inject bleach in your arm to take care of it. >> that was said sarcastically, you know that. >> here's -- >> that was said sarcastically. this is the original comment. >> i said supposing you brought the light inside the body, which you can do through the skin or

some other way and i think he said you're going to test that too. sounds interesting. then i see the disinfectant, where it knocks it out in a minute, one minute, and is there a way to do something like that by injection inside or or almost a cleaning. because it gets in the lungs -- >> amazing, should have seen dr. birx's response wants to go into the wall there and disappear. >> that was the day you came over to my house with the flashlight and started shining it in my mouth and tried to get me to take the cleaners under the kitchen sink, the president said it, must be right. >> give us your response, you're on camera by the way. >> i wish i was joking. >> it's part of a larger problem. when he said i know this stuff, i take to it naturally.

uncle was teacher at mit. he's such a solipsist, narcissist. he doesn't want to listen to expert opinion, people who have spent their life studying. oleander, disinfectant or light inside the body -- >> hydroxychloroquine. >> that may be a little different because it does have a role in medicine to stop malaria, but this is all snake oil. that he is peddling snake oil he is greatest tragedy of all. we have wonderful ways of dealing with the coronavirus. masks are one, social distancing is another. because he's peddling snake oil for long period of time, not using things we can use, we're required to do extraordinary things like close down the country. wouldn't have been necessary if we had acted earlier. >> notice the president didn't say anything tonight about testing. >> no. >> of course.

>> nothing about kids in schools. >> of course. >> we screwed our kids. >> doctor, thank you, see you soon. >> thank you for having me, thanks for what you're doing. >> i appreciate that. >> thanks for setting people straight. we're screwing our kids in schools. >> you've got three. >> knew since march, could have gotten them the tests. couple of days ago, 150 million tests. >> in a month. >> had a plan similar to that they canceled. but even that haven't figured out right kinds of testing because not putting minds to it. didn't give resources that states needed to give to the schools to allow them to have right air circulation. it's aerosolized. to have the spacing, staffing and protection. he could win this election if he had owned schools. families across the country, rich, poor, black, white, all screwed with our kids. >> 150,000 tests a month, you

need -- dr. reiner saying i think 150,000 tests per day. if you want the rapid tests, you want to be able to test people quickly. kids going into schools. people going into offices and restaurants, all kinds of businesses. 150,000 rapid tests a month is drop in the bucket. sure, we'll take it but drop in the bucket. and let me finish this. he could have won with that if he had owned it if you said. also could have won with george floyd if he had said you know what -- >> everybody thought this was wrong. >> everybody thought it was wrong, need to deal with that. no doubt, president trump, trump 2020 just those two things. >> not his home boys the proud boys, not all the people poisoned to believe if you worry about inequities and justice and

unfair policing you hate the cops. that's the narrative he went with, he's a divider. >> and showed up in tonight's debate. it was a mess. are all the lives part of the president's strategy, big question. we'll talk about it next. >> rhetorical question. ♪ woo! - go ♪ go go go ♪ go go go go on a real vacation. visit go rving.com or your nearest rv dealer.

verizon knows how to build unlimited right. start with america's most awarded network. offer the best in entertainment and plans to mix and match starting at $35. with the stunning iphone 11. now get two for just $5 per month. one for you and another to share. only at verizon.

♪ this is the feeling of total protection now that we protect your identity, mobile phone, auto, home and life you've never been in better hands allstate click or call for a quote today

breaking news, a chaotic first presidential debate if that's what you want to call it. why? no fair exchange of ideas, didn't learn anything, just commented into your mind who donald trump is and who joe biden isn't. lot of lies and insults, mostly from the president. not exclusively but disproportionately from the president. what do the better minds think? s.e. cupp and april ryan, white house correspondent and former democratic mayor of

north carolina, mitch landreau. s.e., was the way the president came out tonight part of strategy? >> yeah, a losing strategy, strategy that acknowledged i'm not doing great in the polls, probably not going to change hearts and minds in the debate to just punch joe biden and see how much he can stand. he delivered a maga fever dream. taking on simultaneously the media in chris wallace, the establishment in democrats and joe biden. interrupting, bullying, baiting, taunting, blowing it up. that is an organism for his bas. not making any efforts to grow it even incrementally was probably losing strategy in the

end for donald trump. >> april ryan, joe biden's reaction? >> i believe joe biden -- i believe joe biden did well compared to what we were expecting. joe biden stood on the points, he was focused. donald trump is the one we need to focus on, this is the president of the united states who cheated and who showed he was racist. and i don't understand why we are so surprised about that piece as we've seen how he cheated on the 2016 presidential election, that's not a surprise. it shouldn't be a surprise that we saw his racism tonight. look at portland, charlottesville, kenosha. and i remember asking in 2017, mr. president, are you a racist. and all of the trump supporters and even fox news, state-run tv, came after me.

and look, 3 1/2 years later, mainstream america and all the world are seeing what black america saw. i'm not worrying about joe biden but this president of the united states. >> president has set it up, mr. mayor, joe biden has a low bar, just has to prove he's not as much of an ass as the president in settings like this. but president got what he wanted. didn't want debate, didn't care about chris wallace or the rules, wanted to beat up on joe biden to make him look weak. what moves the needle for you? >> i thought tonight was a disgrace. i'm sorry that my five children had to watch that or that is in the pantheon of political commentary for the united states of america. maya angelou said when someone shows you who you are, believe them. when he denied he knew david duke, talked about false equivalency in charlottesville and inability to tell the proud

boys to stand down and stand by, coupled with his expression of core values indicates that president of the united states is a racist and it's disqualifying. core value for america, we hold these truths to be self-evident, all men are created equal, the idea upon which the entire country rests. if he doesn't understand that, know that, believe it, he can't be president of the united states. i think he demonstrated tonight what bull conner looked like, what leandra perez looked like back in the day, full-throated approval. took off the fig leaf that anybody could pretend he had and his supporters have nowhere to go. republicans come on tonight shaking their heads. we know when his lips are moving he's lying but never been so

blatantly and overtly out there on this issue. no there's nowhere for them to go. joe biden, i disagree with most people, he showed up every day, every month, everybody saying he was going to fall down. took everything that trump threw at him and looked strong to me, smart. could have handled some of the questions better but looked much more presidential and i think the country will give him a chance to help heal the country and restore the soul of what we know the country should be. >> more presidential compared to who, low bar. almost all my republican friends are like you, it's about values, not what the president is about. something you've had to struggle with. but hasn't turned out to be much because you have clear a voice as anybody i've ever heard how

you feel. but play for you exchange what a key demographic of suburban women got to hear tonight and what it may mean. play sound. >> wouldn't know a suburb unless you took a wrong turn. >> i know suburbs. >> wait a minute. >> i was raised in the suburbs, this is not 1950, all the dog whistles and racism don't work anymore, suburbs are by and large integrated. people driving to soccer practice, black, white and hispanic as any time in the past. really the threat to the suburbs and safety is failure to deal with covid. they're dying in the suburbs. failure to deal with the environment, they're being flooded and burned out because of his failure to do anything. >> other than the general proposition i hear from my 17-year-old why do men have so

much power? what do you think women voters heard that would mean anything to them other than the general proposition that men need to be divested of all control until they control themselves? >> i think all the moments you would imagine, that included, going after biden's kids, i don't know many women wouldn't recoil at that and other moments on covid, they repulse women, we are repulsed. but i think it's actually bigger than that. there's a particular kind of embarrassment that women feel when we watch men, you guys, failing, behaving badly, very obviously. we know we're not responsible for it. in fact you're behaving badly in spite of our best efforts, and yet we still feel like it reflects badly on us. and i think a lot of women

watched this debate and have watched trump last four years and are embarrassed and galled, galled that despite our best efforts we're still not running the show, right? and not only that, this is the guy that y'all men, men who elected trump, have decided is your representative? the guy who represents your tribe? who thinks i should be in the kitchen, would grab me by the genitals because he can, i guy that can barely put together a sentence, a guy that half the country -- called shithole countries? this is your guy? it's embarrassing and galling and this is when you're getting when you see flight of suburban white women who have traditionally supported the republican party leaving.

we're not just offended like our delicate sensibilities offended by him. we're galled this is the best you guys got. >> s.e., amen sister, preach. as chris and i were talking about earlier, putting yourself in someone else's shoes. i was watching tonight, not going to watch as guy because i know they're get him, he got him. women were sitting at home. talking to producers, when i came in, i said you're a mom, how do you feel watching this? that is not behavior, i would not want my child to act that way. if this election hinges on women in the suburbs, white, black, hispanic, they're thinking of kids bullied by someone like donald trump. not how i would raise my kid.

church ladies not how i want anyone to act. for everybody saying this was great, got him, he's on point, punching joe biden. women and people who are going to be moved and shake this election, his side is already baked in, and people for joe biden pretty much already baked in. it's that small sliver in the middle who i think will be turned off by this and s.e. hit the nail on the head. >> got to go to break. appreciate all of you, sorry it's so late and this is so short but it all matters a lot. thanks to all of you. miss you all too. >> bye homeboy. see you mayor. louisiana. new orleans. >> from jersey? >> baton rouge. >> we're going to go to break right now. what you didn't get to hear enough of tonight, heard a little bit from biden, nobody is telling you what's good about us and how things are going to get better.

isn't that sad this is where we've gotten? joe biden was trying to urge you to vote. >> said we need to come together. >> said a little bit. but would think would be all of it. saying today on the -- >> amber waves of grain. >> everybody needs to listen to bruce springsteen, wrote songs about hard times in context of being in a great place and we've forgotten that. did talk about voting though and what needs to happen at polls. president of the united states, who is entrusted with protecting our democracy, was sitting next to him saying it's going to be a fraud, it's going to be terrible. now, does that make sense? what moved the needle on that tonight ♪ even if we're just dancing in the dark ♪ 20 years ago, i was an hourly associate cart pusher. the different positions i've had taught me how to be there for others. ♪ i started out as a cashier.

i mean, the sky's the limit with walmart. it's all up to you. ♪ ♪ it's our sharpest ever, and while some other companies would charge more for something new, we don't. because why be like everyone else? harry's. not the same.

it's not just a sandwich, far from it. it's a reason to come together. it's a taste of something good. a taste we all could use right now. so let's make the most of it. and make every sandwich count. with oscar mayer deli fresh

ms. williams: we've been working hard... ms. robinson: ...to make learning fun again. ms. duncan: and making sure our students can succeed. ms. zamora: we're with you every step of the way. ms. robinson: i know it's a challenging time. ms. zamora: no one wants to be back in the classroom more than teachers. ms. williams: we have missed you so much. mr. hardesty: but we all have to be safe. ms. robinson: because we're all in this together. narrator: making our school buildings safer. ms. robinson: working together, we can make it a great year. narrator: because the california teachers association knows quality public schools

make a better california for all of us. so this president, president trump, doubling down on his attacks on the integrity of the election while joe biden is pledging to accept the results even if he loses. >> as far as the ballots are concerned, it's a disaster. they're sending millions of ballots all over the country. there's fraud. found them in creeks and found them just happened to have name trump in a waste paper basket. being sent all over the place.

going to be a fraud. take a look at west virginia, mailmen selling the ballots. sold, dumped in rivers. horrible thing for the country. 80 million -- >> i have a final question -- >> you know it can't be done. >> already there's been fraud. >> i will accept it and he will too, you know why? once the winner is declared after all the votes are counted, that will be the end of it. that will be the end of it. if it's me, fine. if it's not me, i'll support the outcome and i'll be a president not just for the democrats, i'll be a president for democrats and republicans. >> this has been a hot topic last week or so, president saying it's a fraud, i don't know if i'm going to accept -- we're going to have peaceful transition of power. cnn senior political adviser ron is here, from the "atlantic" the

president double down, he had disband his own voter fraud commission. there is no evidence of significant fraud in mail-in voting of any kind. what he is doing is so dangerous right now. that he is willing to destabilize the entire country because he's losing and thinks the only way he can win, ron, is by cheating and giving the american people misinformation. >> yeah. you're right. there is no history, no evidence of significant voter fraud in mail voting or any other kind -- >> how ballots, 300, 400 million people in the country, 7 or 9 in pennsylvania. >> 138 million people voted in 2016, quarter by mail. and estimates are 150 million people are going to vote in 2020. i do think that all of these attacks on mail means that probably not as many people are

going to vote by mail as we thought in march when the pandemic hit. thought might be half of all votes. could be less or a third. but this is part of the larger pattern of the president trying to undermine small "d" democratic institutions if he thinks will give his party advantage. census is being manipulated first time in american history, to the postal service. congressional republicans going to stand up for rule of law and democracy? made vague, of course peaceful transition of power. until they stand up, most since abraham lincoln in 1860. >> you dropped out but i got the gist of what you were saying.

this moment where the president seemingly encouraged his supporters to intimidate people at the polls. >> yes. >> here it is. >> i'm encouraging my supporters to go into the polls and watch very carefully because that's what has to happen. i'm urging them to do it. as you know today there was a big problem. in philadelphia went in to watch, poll watchers, very safe, nice thing. they were thrown out, not allowed to watch. you know why? bad things happen in philadelphia. i'm urging my people, i hope it's fair election. i'm 100% on board but see tens of thousands of ballots manipulated, couldn't go along with that. >> what does that mean? >> means fraudulent election. >> what will you do? >> they're not equipped to handle it. >> couple of things there. that was lot of word salad.

as joe biden would say, number one, lot of word salad, number two, used to live in philadelphia, it goes blue, and he is -- number three, speaking about poll watchers as if people are never heard of it. shocking thing to hear from the president of the united states, all that he just said there. >> especially in context of earlier in the debate talking about proud boys and telling them to stand by, basically. then urging his voters to be active in trying to intimidate, supporters to try to intimidate people on election day. attorney general of nevada tonight tweeted -- he wasn't talking about poll watching, he was talking about voter intimidation. this is illegal in nevada, believe me when i say it, you do it, you will be prosecuted. president is trying to sow chaos on election day, hoping for

violent couldn't frontationfron people won't show up to vote. facing that we're seeing historic turnout -- threat he's posing on election day, tonight another example of that. presidential debates are another small "d" democratic institution that has to figure out if it's going to respond to and adapt to a president willing to trash democratic norms if he thinks it will benefit him or his party. that was embarrassment tonight. i've seen every presidential debate, covering or going back to the tape. not only by far the worst but quite revealing of what a second trump term would look like. many of the things he said about going further in trying to undermine democratic institutions, he gave you a preview of what he might do if he doesn't have to face the voters again. one thing democrats are probably hoping that joe biden would have

been stronger condemning some of the things. when he said i'm going to respect the results of the election, does that extend to simply saying if a trump appoint appointed supreme court tells wisconsin to stop counting you're going along with it? supreme court is going to decide whether or not to hear case to overturn a ruling by pennsylvania supreme court allowed ballots to be counted a few days after the election. how far will the court go in intervening and republicans in countenancing that and joe biden fighting it further than al gore in 2000. it may not come to that but may have been a point where democrats wanted to hear more g indignation from biden, not going to let it wash over him

but use every means available to ensure a full and fair count. >> just explained one reason they're rushing to fill late justice ginsburg's seat. thanks ron, i appreciate it. >> thanks for having me. >> chris, don't you think the president of the united states should be encouraging as many americans to vote as possible and giving people confidence? >> yes. yes, and once again we've never heard the steward of your democracy say these people are not set up to handle this, talking about voting system. >> or post office because removed boxes. >> put your boy in there who systematically tried to undermine it. said this was going to happen before i got here. please. ben ginsberg, a republican election lawyer, decades of experience monitoring elections and trying to root out fraud. good to see you councillor as always. set the record straight for us. idea of unsolicited absentee

ballots rife with fraud, recipe for disaster and something new, context please? >> simply not accurate. states have been there are a couple of states who put it in sort of a quick fashion for this cycle. the target state, the battleground state, new jersey also. again, simply no evidence, though, this is actually going to cause fraud and a problem. >> pennsylvania is proof it doesn't work -- true or false? >> well, false. they don't have unsolicited ballots. in pennsylvania people have to send in an application and it comes back. there were some counting problems. one of the things we need to remember as this plays forward is that there are 10,500 jurisdictions. it's a system largely fueled by volunteers. there are going to be mistakes,

but mistakes do not equal fraud. and trying to conflate that, which seems to be the core of the president's sort of very weak argument is what gets you into trouble and really is not accurate. >> these people are not setup to handle this kind of voting. i assume he's referring to the system, but is there any context in which you believe that's true? >> i think what he was referring to is -- >> did we lose the counselor? he's shocked -- oh, he's back. you're back. go ahead. continue counselor. >> there will be some instances where there are places that get overwhelmed by the number of absentee ballots that come in. that's really what happened in new york with those elections. the carol maloney election took weeks to solve, but there were

no allegations of fraud. it was simply a system overload. so he's right to be worried there are some jurisdictions who have not done enough to be certain that they're ready for this onslaught of ballots. but seeing the problems that occurred during the primaries, a number of jurisdictions have taken steps to be able to make that better. there's funding from private sources that republicans are also trying to stop from getting in to improve certain big cities like philadelphia. >> you worry that the president is chilling his own vote, that because he's telling people not to do there are people with legitimate concerns about coronavirus that now won't vote by absentee if they were going to vote for him because he's telling them it doesn't work? >> it's a mystifying strategy. in many elections in which i've worked republicans have had

incredible absentee ballot programs. the president saying don't go out and vote can be a huge mistake because there are people as you point out may not go out to vote. he, in fact, is suppressing his own vote. there's bad weather on election day or there's an outbreak of the coronavirus, you know, a smart political campaign would want to have its absentee ballots in the bank, right? those are voters who you don't have to turn out during what might happen an election day. >> as we get closer once we get more judicial guidance about how they feel about postmarks and what that means in terms of the eligibility of ballots, i'd love to have you back on, counselor, to go through the implications of that. thank you very much, sir, especially for the hour. >> thanks. >> mask up, get out there, vote. >> sure. and if you don't want to, use an absentee ballot. most states that's enough.

i'm worried about covid especially. some states are modifying. some states are still in transition where i don't want to go because of covid isn't enough. >> get out there early and then you won't have the lines, and then you can mask up and feel safer about it. beat the rush as they say. >> well said. well said, d. lemon. how are people around the globe viewing this country after tonight's debate? cnn's chief international diplomatic editor says it's likely escalating concerns. what concerns? why? next. we're all finding ways to keep moving. but how do we make sure the direction we're headed is forward? at fidelity, you'll get the planning and advice to prepare you for the future, without sacrificing the things that are important to you today. we'll help you plan for healthcare costs,

taxes and any other uncertainties along the way. because with fidelity, you can feel confident that the only direction you're moving is forward. omnipod delivers insulin through a discreet waterproof pod... to help simplify life. no more daily injections. it's game-changing. and the wireless controller helps deliver the right amount of insulin. plus take your insulin anywhere with a small tubeless pod. covered by most insurance plans. get started with a benefits check today. go to omnipod.com for risk information and instructions for use. consult your healthcare provider before starting on omnipod. simplify diabetes. simplify life. omnipod. tonight, try pure zzzs all night. simplify life. unlike other sleep aids, our extended release melatonin helps you sleep longer. and longer. zzzquil pure zzzs all night. fall asleep. stay asleep.

[yawn] you. look. stunning. want the truth to why i wake up feeling... [growls softly] ...so darn awesome? [makes playful sound] i take care of my skin. not this skin. that skin. and when you've got incontinence, you sure need to. tena intimates pads lock liquid in, and are now 100% breathable to care for your intimate skin. are you still here? kind to skin. protects like tena. it's got our sharpest five german blades ever and unlike some other companies, we don't raise the price when we make you something new. harry's. not the same.

well, tonight's debate now in the history books which is a shame considering it belongs in the dumpster. so what must people in other countries be thinking after watching the display? joining me now cnn's chief international diplomatic editor, mr. nick robertson. good to see you there in london. i should say good morning to you. over and over again tonight americans -- here in the u.s. americans expressed dismay that the rest of the world saw. what's the reaction overseas sph. >> sure, one official described

the debate as bad entertainment, not something we want to hear. he said french commentators are calling it particularly violent with no one -- no clear winner in the outcome. british here describing it in the same way, ill-tempered, bad mannered, a brawl, less focus on who was the victor in it. although here in the u.k. people tend to think biden came out ahead. but more concern about what happens to the process here. the united states is a beacon of democracy, and i think for the world today waking up over here looking and reviewing what happened in the debate, that beacon of democracy seems to be shrouded. and that's a concern because democratic countries that are allies of the united states look to the united states to set the standard. and if as we heard tonight there's going to be disruption during the election, dispute

about the outcome, that turns the focus more inward and makes it more dangerous world for the united states allies. i'm not trying to overplay this at all, but the united states is a country that the rest of europe and many other democracies around the world look to set the standard. we live in an era of rising autocrats and rising populists. this is not a good trend. >> and that is not hyperbole. thank you. i appreciate that. i'm so glad we had this time here together. >> born in the usa. they are songs of desperation and troubles, and people see them as anthems of patriotism. why? because you can give a message that things are bad, that we live in a place that is capable of greatness. we didn't see it tonight. not from biden, not enough and certainly not from the president because that's not his message. imagine how people would respond to someone who's