attorney general shapiro, appreciate your time. thank you so very much. >> good to be with you. thank you. >> you, too, sir. thanks very much to all of you for being with us. "ac 360" with anderson begins now. hey, good evening. thanks for joining us. the day after the debate debacle and the question tonight really is now what? 73 million people witnessed last night's so-called debate and it's pretty clear this is the way it's going to be from here until at election election day. the non-partisan debate commission in charge of these presidential debates every four years made a statement today saying last night's debate made clear additional structure should be added to the format of the remaining debates to ensure a more ordinarily discussion of the issues. they don't know what to do. they didn't put out any specifics. they aren't sure, you can't cut off the person's mic, you can still hear them off mic. they can try to construct additional structures but it's

not going to make a difference. donald trump is what he is. it's not going to change. his history of racism and his father's history of it, too. once or twice he made statements condemning something vague but we all know what he is doing and why he's doing it. it's just very clear. it's not the first time. it's a pattern. here is what he said in cleveland responding to this question from moderator chris wallace. >> are you willing tonight to condemn white supremists and militia groups and to say that they need to stand down like kenosha and portland. >> i would say almost everything i see is from the left wing, not right wing. i'm willing to do anything, i want to see peace. >> do it. say it. >> you want to call them -- what do you want to call them? >> white supremists. >> who do you want me to condemn. >> wipe supremacists.

proud boys, stand back and stand by. >> stand back and stand by. now, that's just not a condemnation. that's actually an instruction. stand by. stand by means keep your ar-15s. keep those tack tacktical vestse and the boots and camo so you can look like you're in the special forces when in fact, you weren't. stand by, we might need you to descend to polling places on election day. i might ask you to come to d.c., take over television stations, things they do in places that have a lot of coups. that was no condemnation of this group, the proud boys or any white supremist and m ma/accomplish smailitmilitia. the proud boys, this is the biggest thing since "call of duty." they are selling extra, extra large t-shirts with that printed on them and what did the president say today about this? he did what he always does.

i don't know who that is. >> i don't know who the proud boys are. you'll have to give me a definition. i have to say they have to stand down, let law enforcement do their work. >> wipe supremacist. >> i always denounced any form of any of that you have to denounce but i also -- joe biden has to say something about antifa. >> any form of any of that. he can't say -- talk about racism. he can't actually put four or five sentences off the top of his head together about the dangers of far right white supremacist supremacists. his homeland domestic sec tourry, the biggest threat there is. in other words, the president's inability to simply and flatly condemn the people that shouted

jews will not replace us in c r charlottesville, that has not changed. it appears it will be more of the same like last night was more of the same. he gets reelected more of the same and maybe that's what voters want and so be it. listen to what the president said back then and compare it to what he said today and last night. >> yes, i think there is blame on both sides. you look at -- you look at both sides. i think there is blame on both sides and i have no doubt about it and you don't have any doubt about it, either. and, and if you reported it accurately, you would say. >> they showed up in charlottesville -- >> excuse me. you had some very bad people in that group but you also had people that were very fine people on both sides. >> not then, not last night and not today could he condemn far

right hate groups and couldn't condemn the entire group. that quote you had some very bad people in that group and the bad neo neazis, not the good one. the bottom line, the president for whatever reason cannot simply and plainly condemn anyone if he thinks there is the slightest chance they might vote for him and that's what it boils down to because that's all he cares about there is no reason not to expect more for the rest of the campaign why he was asked about the bizarre qanon conspiracy theory based on anti say m semim tropes there is no reason to think the president will stop sewing doubt not giving what he said last night. >> will you urge your supporters to stay calm during this extended period, not to engage in any civil unrest and will you

pledge tonight that you will not declare victory until the election has been independently certified? president trump, you go first. >> i'm urging my supporters to go into the polls and watch very carefully. that's what has to happen. i'm urging them to do it. >> okay. yeah. so that's not stand by, go into the polls and watch because things are happening. big things are happening. that's the kind of language that raises questions nobody wants to think about and until this election, nobody had to. there was plenty more last night to tell us what the rest of the campaign is going to look like. if last night was a preview, there will be falsehoods on key issues and the pandemic that has now taken 207,000 lives and expect more blame shifting from the president. >> if we would have listened to you, the country would have been left wide open. millions of people would have died, not 200,000 and one person is too much. it's china's fault. it should have never happened.

they stopped it from going in but it was china's fault. >> nothing new. none of it is. everything donald trump says and is that defines him was on display last night. it comes with its own answer and how much worse? cnn political analyst maggie haberman is "the new york times" white house correspondent and been covering donald trump since long before he entered politics. she tweeted about last night but it might as well just be about today and all the days ahead quoting now from her tweet, people close to him are blunt that the president knows he's losing and is scared of it so he did when he does when afraid or anxious and try to impose his will on the night. prospeerspective from dana bash traveling with the president outside pittsburgh and abby phillip. so dana, you have now reporting about how the president and his team are feeling about the debate. >> reporter: well, i'm told from a source familiar with the president's thinking that in

private conversations, he's insisting that he did well, that he had a great night, and when it is suggested to him strongly that he did not have a great night, that he was too aggressive and interrupted too much, that he is surprised to hear that push back. what i'm told is that the sort of feeling is that once the president digests his steady diet of cable news that he, you know, he always does, it is going to hit him likely in the next day or so that he did in fact, interrupt too much, that he did, in fact, have a bad night like everybody around him believes that he did. >> but wait, do they really believe that -- i'm sorry. i'm sorry to interrupt. all the mouthpieces flooding the air waves, peter navarro and the others, they have all been parroting the style and substance of what the president said.

>> that's true. but the analogy that was given to me was remember when the -- how can you forget? when the president suggested injecting or digesting bleach would help with coronavirus and he couldn't believe that people actually thought that was a big deal. after a day or two, he got that that was a big embarrassment. that is the analogy. whether or not he'll get there, you're right. it's obviously a very open question but despite what people who are paid, you know, to be around him say on tv, i am told that there are people who are very blunt with him behind the scenes, never mind again what he is hearing from people who are very complementary of him. he sees one thing that's interesting they want him to to take rest.

maybe next week at some point. they hope by then he will absorb it all. look, anderson, big hope given the fact they did work hard with him behind the scenes before last night's debate. >> you know, the president had a chance to try to clean up if you can, you know, his stand by proud boys comment and take sop responsibility for his behavior last night. instead, he did what he always does, which is try to muddy the water further. i kept wondering today -- i mean, is part of this a strategy to discuss and depress everybody but his supporters and maybe get a peel off a certain percentage of voter whose are feeling dirty after watching this thing last night and disgusted they stay home and not vote? >> you know, it's an interesting question because i do think that a lot of president trump's political strategy just in general, not just in this campaign or in this political moment is about sort of beating

the public down, beating down the entire system so that everybody wants to just wash their hands of what is going on. whether he intends to do that or not, i think that is actually the effect but, you know, the president is not willing ever really to just as you pointed out earlier, even say the words white supremacissupremacist. he doesn't want to say the words. it dates back years going to the campaign. you know, i think he doesn't like being wrong and he doesn't like admitting that he made a mistake and so you're going to see him trying to stand his ground for as long as possible and then perhaps we might see him change his tactic but i'll tell you, you know, one of the problems with where the president is he's trying to project a persona of strength against joe biden who he says is weak and in his mind, strength means dominating the conversation and means being

aggressive in the way he was last night and i'm not sure he understands how to modulate that in a way that doesn't continue to hurt him. >> i mean, it's not just -- i mean, dana, does it hurt him? again, among his supporters -- >> yes. >> you think it does hurt him? >> yes. >> well, among his supporters, the people supporting him, probably not. those people he doesn't need to reach out to despite evidence to the contrary if you look at his actions not only over this campaign but the past four years, he's done very little with few exceptions to reach out beyond his base. it's one of the things that have a lot of people scratching their heads who really like him. at a place where i am right now, i'm in pennsylvania. the president, his campaign believes he really needs to win this state and he really needs to win people who are not so sure if he's the right guy right now and in large part because they don't like his character.

they don't like his personality. they don't like his tweets. what you saw on stage last night was his tweets come to life and i'll tell you one person who is familiar with his debate prep, said they prepared him to be aggressive but not jason from friday the 13th and that's the perception of how his performance was. these are people who like him. >> abby, one thought that moderate republicans in tough reelection races might forcibly condemn the president's spectacle. look no further than saucusan collins who said she thinks there is fault on both sides. again, wow. susan collins, yet again, you know, all this expectation about, you know, really open minded -- fault on both sides. i mean, come on. >> we got to be real about whee we are as a country. we are in a hyper partisan moment and she's not an exception to that. susan collins is trying to fight for her survival by walking a

tight rope in her state. i think that's what you're seeing. she's trying to sort of kind of be sort of quote unquote even handed about this in a way that's not -- does not gel with reality. you're going to see a lot of republicans sort of saying well, it would be nice if he said the right thing last night but they won't go out of their way to condemn, to actually condemn what the president said and did last night. that is what we're going to see in the coming days and perhaps for the future debates that are probably going to look not too dissimilar from last night. >> seems like in the past, there were politicians that thought there was something more important than political survival from time to time like human decency and, you know, actually having morals and virtues and nld sstanding up fot you believe in. that seems increasingly rare. dana bash, abby phillip, thank you. the mother of heather heyer, she joins us with her thoughts.

heather heyer was killed in charlottesville by white extremists. also, an expert on extremists groups and message that the president is sending. later, what other countries saw when they tuned in and what that means for america's role in the world. susan rice joins us. still fresh... unstopables in-wash scent booster. downy unstopables.

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language to shrug it off. >> i don't know who the proud boys are. you have to give me a definition. i don't know who they are. i have to say they have to stand down and let law enforcement do their work. >> does it ring a bell? answer four years ago when asked by jay tapper whether he would condone david duke. listen. >> just so you understand, i don't know anything about david duke, okay? i don't know anything about what you're even talking about with white supremacy or white supreme cy ests. did he endorse me or what's going on? i don't know anything about david duke or white supremacists. >> for a guy that watches television nonstop, i know nothing and in 2000 he certainly knew david duke and said the reform party includes a klansman mr. david duke. this is not company i wish to

keep. in a moment, we'll speak with susan bro whose daughter heather heyer was murdered. that terrible moment and the president's reaction to it that moved him to run this time but first sara sidner on the move the president can't bring himself to condemn or remember. >> let's go with a [ bleep ] antifa chain. let's start it. rea ready. [ bleep ] antifa. [ bleep ] antifa. >> reporter: the proud boys are known for holding rallies, armed to the teeth, tack tackle gear black and yellow and this is wholly for self-defense but that is not how a new york jury saw it in 2019. two proud boys were convicted for attempted gang assault and riot for this beating that unfolded in manhattan between proud boys wearing the red hats and antifa members in all black. >> we're fierily but peaceful. >> reporter: they say they believe in law and order but

apparently not in this case. >> we're definitely not going to apologize for fighting back when somebody throws a glass bottle of urine at you. i'm sorry. >> reporter: they say they are not a hate group and members have sued over being described there way. but the anti defamation league says that's exactly what they are. >> the proud boys unequivocally are a hate group. they style themselves as a quote prowestern fraternity. but their rhetoric frequently invokes anti-semitism, xenophobia, particularly targeting immigrants, anti muslim bias and homophobia and transphobia. >> reporter: when the president didn't condemn it and said this. >> proud boys, stand back and stand by but i'll tell you what, somebody has to do something about antifa and the left.

>> reporter: those who track hate were beyond alarmed. the proud boys celebrated. what does stand back and stand by mean to you as a leader of the proud boys? >> the organization does not see that as an endorsement in any way. >> reporter: he plays it down but the chat rooms hype it up. memes pop up, his exact words used as a rallying cry with this added, f it, let's go back to portla portland. another one reads standing by, sir. >> i was the one that said that. >> reporter: so the president mentions your name. >> yeah. >> reporter: is this going to be used as a recruiting tool? >> i mean, any media is used -- i wouldn't say that it was like recruiting tool. any time we're in the media -- >> reporter: you're putting it -- he thrown boasts about the proud boys mentions on twitter after the debate. >> apparently, americans think that proud boys are more important than coronavirus at this moment. >> reporter: the adl says there are many serious consequences to the president's inability to plainly state that he condemns

white supremacists. >> i've always denounced any form, any form, any form of any of that. >> reporter: the president was asked to do it again after the debate but again never uttered the words wipe supremacists. >> stop asking for explanations and take him at his word. he believes these people are his allies and giving them a call to arms. >> reporter: taildataylor knows terror that can bring. she was targeted in a neo-nazi trailing campaign for being new york city's first black female president. >> for a hate crime survivor and cyber harassment, i know how dangerous this rhetoric is and causes real harm and real damage and real violence in our communities. >> reporter: sara sidner, cnn, los angeles. my next guest knows that same terror with heartache and loss and so does kathleen, assistant professor of history

at chicago and author of bringing the war home, the white power movement. susan, thank you for joining us. it's good to see you again. i'm sorry it's under these circumstances. it been just over three years since heather was killed by white supremists in charlottesville and when president trump said what he said, what did you think? >> well, i was taking a break from working on scoholarship applications i'm going to download when i'm done here and washing dishes and gasps and thought well, okay, not surprised and went back to work. this is not exactly new news, it's surprising how open he's being about it but it's not news. >> kathleen, you know, what do you make of first of all, the proud boys saying we don't see this as an endorsement. they are certainly online selling t-shirts with the slogan

on it. >> i think it would be a mistake to think about this as a problem only about the proud boys. certainly, the p boys are galvanizing this moment for their own purposes as we see in many different places online but this is about a broader situation, not just the proud boys ranging to people who are e chatters to people all of those people heard a green light in the president's remarks. all of those people have been called to stand by. that's not the same thing as stand down and the results, i think, could be catastrophic. >> and we should point out that the president may claim not to really know anything about this but his homeland security folks have pinpointed this far right extremism as the biggest domestic threat. isn't that right? >> that's absolutely right. we have a whistle blower from

trump's own dhs, elizabeth newman speaking with an enormous amount of authority about the danger that this poses to our nation. this is the same movement that carried out the oklahoma city bombing, which is the largest domestic casualty on american soil between pearl harbor and 9/11. most people don't realize this is the work of a social movement. they have this narrative about lo lone wolves and bad actors that e clouds our ability to respond to this and words like this make it more difficult to do that really important public work of coming to terms with this legacy of violence. >> susan, i mean, three years ago, did you ever think that three years on this would still be if not -- this would be as big if not a bigger threat than it may have been, you know, prior to charlottesville. >> no, honestly, i didn't. i really thought that people

would be motivated to act and i've since learned through watching a number of cycles that people get all excited for about half a minute and then they lose interest. and that's why we are where we are. people are not taking action. people are just getting emotional and then they let it go by the wayside. they don't really intend to do anything or can't figure out what to do to make a difference. >> kathleen, there does seem to be groups like this, i mean, throughout u.s. history, you know, whether it's the kkk, you know, prior to world war ii there was an american movement and madison square garden if my memory is correct from history, what makes it different now? is it just -- i mean, obviously the internet and connectiveness that allows these people to kind of communicate together and spread misinformation and hate?

>> yes, this is a place where what seems new to us actually has a complex recent history. this movement came together including some of the activists that were in those earlier waves including clansmen, neo-nazis and part of the militia movement and acted in our nation since then. largely unconfronted and facing only piecemeal kinds of prosecution and public opposition. those groups have waged violence on americans countless times. the record, the casualty count is overwhelming and my heart goes out to -- >> do you know what you mean by you say it's overwhelming? >> so, thinking about, say, the casualty count by domestic terror groups since 1994 including the oklahoma city bombing, we're talking about some people. that number is lower than, say, the death toll from a pandemic

but that's 900 people. that's families that lose her loved ones, that's communities intimidated by this act of violence and far out strips the threat posed by the radical left. >> susan, to voters out there who may be undecided who to vote for in november, what is your message is to them. >> when you -- >> or the people who are thinking about just staying home, i mean, regardless of who they will vote for. >> oh my goodness. do not stay home. vote. when you vote, realize that you are voting for the policies that that person stands for, the judges that they put in place, the executive orders that they write. i mean, you're not just voting for one individual on one issue, you're voting for a way of life that's going to affect not only your life but the lives of your children, your grandchildren and your great grandchildren. you have to take it all into account. don't wait until november the

3rd. go vote. i voted friday. my husband and i went friday and voted in person. you can do it. go vote. go vote. go vote. >> susan, appreciate your time tonight and again, i'm sorry for your loss and i appreciate all the work you're doing. you have scholarships in heat r heather's name. >> i do. thank you. please remember that most of the victims of white supremacy are not white. most of the victims of white supremacy are people of color and i'm actually one of the rare cases. they do exist, but most of the victims are people of color, and unfortunately, that's why people are refusing to step up and act. everybody get up and get busy. >> susan bro, thank you. kathleen, appreciate it. thank you very much. if last night's debate caused heart burn here in the quite, what did foreign governments think? i'll talk next with susan rice about that and her concerns about president trump's messaging going forward. riasis.

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an audience of tens of millions watched the debate and a large international viewership and their views were not particularly kind. about the state of america democracy and president trump declining to reject white supremacists groups and the german marshall fund in berlin says there is a consensus in berlin this is getting out of hand. joining me is susan rice, she's the author of "tough love, my story of the things worth fighting for."

before we get to overall impressions of the debate, do you ever imagine seeing a sitting president of the united states not repudiating whether it's this proud boys group or just white supremacy and neo nazis without couching it, without saying stand down but stand back but stand by. did you ever expect that in this country? >> well, good evening, anderson. the answer to your question is absolutely not. i mean, it's an extra ordinaord disgrace the president of the united states to get on national television before a global audience and be absolutely unwilling to renounce white supremacy. he had the opportunity. it was teed up for him. he refused to do it. there is a reason he refused to

do it, it's not because he got confused or didn't know who the proud boys are. he did it because he doesn't want to condemn them because he knows they support him. >> yeah. >> and he is aligned ideologically with their views. we have, i hate to say this, we have a racist in chief in the white house. and that is basically the platform on when he's running. so to repeat who share those views, the white supremacist view would be a disadvantage to them to denounce them, which is why he won't. >> i kept thinking throughout today, a lot of people i talked to on all sides have been depressed and grossed out and just feel sickened by what they witnessed. and i kept coming back to thinking i know other people have thought this before me but if this is just a strategy, part of a strategy, i mean, it is who

he is but also that he wants to, you know, excite his base but beat down everybody else in america a percentage of people won't go to vote because they are sick of the whole thing and don't want to think about it. >> last night president trump's performance was sickening. it was just so bold and so, blatant that it couldn't be denied. but this is who donald trump is. it's not who his supporters are. i want to be clear about that. this is a segment and i hope a small segment, extreme segment of those dedicated to ihim but one he's determined to court at all costs. the fact that we have less than

unequivocal condemnations of his performance and refusal to condemn white supremacy for many in his party is also deeply disturbing. >> it's also for a president who is obsessed with people not laughing at him and constantly saying countries were laughing at us when obama was president or bush was president, the idea of, you know, vladimir putin watching the debate last night and watching all that's been going on, or erdogan in turkey or whomever it is, they're laughing and if they're not laughing, they are at least ecstatic over the state of american democracy now. >> let's be clear how the rest of the world reacted. our friends and allies, i believe, did a collective face plant of just shame and embarrassment and despair. vladimir putin is doing the happy dance in the kremlin tonight because leaving aside the white supremacy comments or lack of comments about white supremacy. what donald trump did in his

unhinged ranting and raving was to discredit civil discourse, disparg the american people to whom he didn't even give the dignity of serious responses and to get up and say before the american people yet again that he will not respect the results of this election unless he himself is the winner, which is the idea of democracy. vladimir putin is dog the hapin happy dance and in beijing, state media is crowing that the debate was chaotic, disorderly and shows democracy is a form of government that should be discredited and discarded and their form is in fact correct. this was a disaster for u.s. global leadership and a disaster delivered by donald trump, yet again, and, you know, when we think about the prospect of two

more of these things, i pray, i hope that somehow they can be made to be different. donald trump is not going to change but perhaps the format and the rules and the moderation can change. >> yeah, i mean, somebody evas that moderated these debates, i don't know that can happen. maybe they have a secret i've never heard of. it not something our system is built to accomplish, frankly. >> maybe -- >> sorry, go ahead. >> maybe a trap door under his seat. >> do you worry about democracy itself? i mean, about -- i mean, i -- until i started going to wars overseas, i used to think things are pretty set in stone and the foundations of democracy is strong and now i don't think so. i mean, i certainly felt seeing stuff overseas but never thought i would see that and start to feel that here. >> well, i think we're in a

fragile moment. i believe our democracy will endure. i think we learned some things from the trump era. we learned so much of what we have come to rely on is the guardrails of our democracy or more norms than rules and laws and when you have an authoritarian minded president and his party in congress refuses to hold him accountable, then one of the critical checks and balances is lost and the laws that he violates are not being enforced and many of the rules he's breaking are actually norm. so we got to get back to a good look at how we fix those holes in our democracy. >> am basketball tore ribassado dr. sanjay gupta has a look at experts that have to approve a vaccine before it's released

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breaking news from the fda tonight. dr. steven hanh says his agency will stand by their guidelines on vaccine development before granting any vaccine for public use. important because president trump himself added fuel to the fire when he said he might over rule the agency if they want to strengthen the guidance on any coronavirus vaccine before it became approved. >> mr. president, the fda is reportedly considering stricter guidelines for the emergency authorization of a covid vaccine. are you okay with that? >> i tell you what, we're looking at that. that has to be approved by the white house. we may or may not approve it. it sounds like a political move. >> it has to go before a little known group of experts until now hasn't let the general public in on who they are or what they do.

dr. sanjay gupta joins us with his exclusive report on the group and the work they do. >> if and when a vaccine is made available, may not be up to the president alone or even the fda for that matter. because there is a small secretive group that sees the vaccine data before anyone else. >> this all gets decided by a group called a data and safety monitoring board. >> the dsmb is a group of experts in all sorts of areas like statistics, ethics, vaccine development. they are the only ones to get a few quote unblinded looks at the data as it starts to come in. >> they know who got the vaccine, who got the placebo. they figure out if it's time to say this is working. that's not a political decision. >> they can advice the companies to apply for fda review or they might bring a trial to a halt. and right now, they have one of the most monumental tasks in the world. >> we want to know they are

fully independent and have no prior relationships with the company so they're not conflicted in any way. >> the members of the board do go through a fairly exhaustive vetting process but these are perhaps the biggest questions. can the dsmb be trusted? do they have financial or political conflicts? can they be pressured? >> what they don't want is their members of their committee beiig swayed by outside people. >> typically, their names remain confidential but susan who serves on covid-19 dsmbs agreed to talk to us. how would you characterize the power of this board? >> i don't think you feel powerful. you feel responsible. you know that everybody is trusting you with these data. >> when you look at data, there is always a perception among lay people it's totally objective. is it really that objective? >> of course.

there is some degree of subjectivity. it's a judgment call. that's the way these committees work. >> i don't see any reason why it should be delayed further. >> the fda basically said that it's very reasonable to wait and observe for two months before authorizing anything. the president has said, you know, they may not approve those guidelines. so what happens then? what's the role of the dsmb and situation like this? >> we've certainly never been in a situation where the national leadership has seemed to be so involved, directly involved in these processes. what will happen, i don't know. >> it was a dsmb that made the call to pause the astrazeneca trial when a previously healthy 37-year-old woman developed a neurological condition in the u.k. and it was a critical decision. >> even an adverse event that p ha happens in one in 10,000 people or one in 20,000 people, that would be a lot of people that would have a serious adverse

event. >> the country's top doctors assure they won't be cutting any corners on safety. but for now, it's in the hands of ellen berg and members of the dmsb. >> we're in uncharted territory. who >> i think we're in unchartered territory here, who knows what the administration is going to do. >> seven former fda commissioners condemn the agency. one of the commissioners also testified on capitol hill today. while politics is not disrupting the process, they are undermining politics. do you think politics can stay out of the vaccine approval process? >> you know, after doing this piece and talking to lots of people over the last several months, i think so. but there's clearly a lot of pressure, and you heard susan characterize it saying, she's been doing this a long time.

this is unchartered territory, because you have this other organization that is removed from the fda, removed from obviously the executive branch of government, and they're doing their own work largely confidential as you heard, i think it does offer a layer of protection that's important and as you pointed out as well, steven hahn saying, the fda is not going to be pressured. >> we'll look at live pictures from the president's rally in minnesota. there have been no problems. is that accurate? he seemed to indicate no one has gotten sick. he had an indoor rally back in tulsa in june. herman cain ended up dying from coronavirus the next month. what do you make of the president saying they've had no problems. >> well, first of all, because we still have so many new viral infections every day in this country, contact tracing is

something -- we used to talk about it all the time. it's incredibly hard to do. about half the country, half the people who get infected at any given point in time, don't have any idea where they contracted it as a result. that's part of the problem. there's no question, the virus is the virus, you look at those images of the rallies, it's better that it's outside. the virus disburses much more easily outside. you're closely clustered, you're there for long durations. if you walk by someone, that's one thing. you're sitting next to people for long periods of time, longer than 15 minutes will be considered long duration, and very few masks out there, while we may not know, because the contact tracing is so challenging. there's no question those could be super spreader events. what voters in crucial swing states had to say. we'll find out.

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the unfair money bail system. he, accused of rape. while he, accused of stealing $5. the stanford rapist could afford bail; got out the same day. the senior citizen could not; forced to wait in jail nearly a year. voting yes on prop 25 ends this failed system, replacing it with one based on public safety. because the size of your wallet shouldn't determine whether or not you're in jail. vote yes on prop 25 to end money bail. vote yes on prop 25 they do one of the most deven in normal times.s, our frontline health care workers.

and when these heroes lack the resources they need, that risky job gets ten times harder. prop fifteen makes corporations pay their fair share. to invest in our communities, in our clinics, in the essential workers who treat everyone- rich, poor, and in-between. whether it's this pandemic or the next health crisis, vote yes on prop fifteen. for all of us. we started with at the top of the broadcast, after the debate last night, we're wondering where do we go now. choices on election day oar before could make a difference. randi kaye spoke with a group of undecided voters. one said they were republican, four others considered themselves independents.

one of them is a registered republican to vote in primaries, so the question is, were any of them swayed to pick a candidate after the showdown? randy's report here. >> these five undecided voters from michigan, wisconsin, pennsylvania and florida were hoping the first presidential debate would help them choose a candidate. >> it was kind of disrespectful, it was hard to watch. >> it was a hot mess. it felt like two children fighting. >> it was just cringe worthy from the moment it started. >> our group found some moments worse than others. when trump refused to condemn a far right white group. how did you feel in that moment. >> there's only one answer, you condemn it. >> erica deangelo who voted for trump in 2016 had a different view. >> i think he did condemn the white supremacist groups and used similar language to what

the moderator used. >> on the issue on taxes, most in our group don't care what the president paid. >> as long as he didn't break any laws, i'm fine with that. >> no everyone was satisfied with the president's explanation. >> if he paid millions of dollars in taxes, why didn't that show up? >> so is the president's tax bill an issue for you? is that a hangup for you in voting for him? >> that's a hangup, sure. >> do you feel as though donald trump did a good job defending his handling of the pandemic? >> he's not going to talk me into believing he did everything he could, he's already proven he didn't. >> a vaccine is just weeks away, do you buy that? >> no. >> not at all. >> i felt like biden had a nice theoretical response to things, but he didn't give any tangible things that he would or could do for the pandemic. >> everyone in our group was turned off by trump's behavior. >> trump was your candidate in 2016, how do you think he did? >> he just ran over joe and was

totally rude, so disrespectful. >> some were disappointed with biden telling a sitting president to shut up. this michigan voter liked how biden connected with people who lost someone to covid, talking about the empty chair at the table. >> that was a good moment for him to make it personal. he did a little bit of that with his son. it's good to see him defend his son. those are the moments where joe biden shined. >> overall, the debate left this group hungry for policy. >> how are we helping small businesses get back up on their feet. no one's talking about that. >> in the end, these undecided voters are still undecided. >> are you more confused than ever? >> yes. >> i hate to say this, but it makes me not want to vote. >> i've considered not voting after watching this debate. but ultimately i'm going to vote. my ballot is waiting for me. >> if you asked me who i was

voting for today? i'd probably write in a candidate. >> i'm going to be undecided until the day before i walk into the voting poll. >> that's what we talked about earlier, getting people not to vote. depressing people, sick of it so much they don't want to vote. i want to hand it over to anderson for prime time. >> tonight my opinion, not a night to talk about who won. the only clear outcome is that you lost. partisans can spend their time comparing who was worse and why? who was better, just focus on what's obvious? trump won't debate. he refuses to be tested. he will not make a case to you, he intentionally wants you to quit on this process if you're not for him. he doesn't want you to hear anyone else to compare plans, or to do any kind of fair comparison. bottom line, he does not