today, it was the president's spokesperson straight from the white house podium. offering up yet another vague response during a heated white house press briefing where kaley mackenaniy did try to condemn white supremacy during tuesday's debate but you have heard and seen the tape and the debate. let's be honest, if it was, why would republican law makers be telling the president he needs to clear it up? she decided not to answer that question today. in fact, now he's taking another step. launching into racist and xenophobic attacks in minnesota, this time at congresswoman omar, who came to the united states as an refugee. i'm quoting here, telling us how to run our country. do you hear the dog whistle in

coded language there? he also said this. >> the election of joe biden's plan to inundate your state with a historic flood of refugees. 700% refugees from the most dangerous places in the world, including yemen, syria, and your favorite country, somalia. might as well turn minnesota into a refugee camp. >> that claim is also without basis. and clearly designed to scare the people in the crowd to the polls. and now there's this. the president tweeting moments ago that he does not want the rule to change for the next debate because he thought it went so well. are you hearing any truth behind this tweet for the president? >> reporter: it was something in line with what we heard from the press secretary earlier, when

asked if the president would show up to the debate, not knowing what the changes were going to be. and of course the president is tweeting why would he consent to having the rules changes, given, he says, he won the last time. i'm not sure that's an assessment many people, even people who work for him and spourt him, would say. it's a split 50/50 between the president and joe biden. they both have to agree to what the standards will be. that's still to be determined whether the president will agree to what is proposed. we're going on 36 hours of this news psyccycle because the whit house put out a simple statement, according to many, about white supremacy and far-right extremists groups. and he was given opportunities

by three different reporters and she would not simply put out a statement saying they do unambiguously disavow those groups, even though it's not just critics saying he needs to do more, it's his own party. republicans have never been eager to criticize the president. so, when they are, it's notable. you're seeing it with the senate majority leader echoing what tim scott-loan black senator said he misspoke. today they said he did not misspeak about what the president said on inthe debate stage the other night. he isn't going to help win over inmoderate voters because they're too stubborn to put out a statement and pointing to things the president has said in the past that do not paint the full picture, given what he said

in the days following that. and now this news cycle goes on. >> beyond moderates, katelyn, as humans, if this is how long it's gone on and how many questions have gone on without direct answers, that's the answer at this point. another unscripted moment comes, how do you believe it after what we've seen from the debate stage till now? good to see you. thank you. it has been said and bears repeating what the president has said and is saying about white supremacy is in contradiction to his own law enforcement agency. christopher wray testified before congress that racially-motivated extremism remains the top threat in the united states. and in his words, white supremacist-type ideology certainly is the biggest chunk of that.

yet, again, here's the president tuesday. >> stand back, stand by. tell you what, somebody's got to do something about antifa and the left because this is not a right wing problem -- >> the fbi director said -- >> and. >> go ahead. >> antifa is an idea not an organization. >> you've got to be kidding. an idea. >> his fbi director said. >> you know what? he's wrong. >> at the end he says, "well, then, he's wrong." the president saying his fbi director testifying under oath is wrong. that's not all -- take voter fraud. listen. >> there's fraud. they found them in creeks. they found some with the name "trump." happened to have the name trump in a wastepaper basket. sent all over the place. they sent two in a democrat area, sent out 1,000 ballots, everybody got two ballots. this is going to be a fraud like you've never seen.

>> except the fbi director christopher wray testing once again under oath said this about voter fraud -- "we have not seen historically any kind of coordinated national voter fraud effort in a major election, whether by mail or otherwise." that was six days ago, by the way, from the director of the fbi. joining me right now is myles taylor, former chief of staff for the department of homeland security in the trump administration and a cnn contributor now. myles, thank you for being here. a pattern we've seen with the president. seen it all along, but especially of recent with director wray. wray was -- already fbi director, you guys worked at the same time when at dhs. how do you reconcile these two things? you hear the fbi director under oath and then you hear what the president has too say? . >> kate-o

>> ai'll say this. christopher wray is one of the most honest i've ever worked with. if he says it, you can believe it. our fbi has extraordinary integrity. not to make it personal, in both cases white supremacy and voter fraud, the president not only ignoreded fbi, he ignoreds u.s. the department of homeland security. both instances we said to the president on white supremacy the threat was serious, was growing and was primarily from violent racially moat valuated extremist groups. just what wrist wray said in his testimony in the past few days. we've been telling donald trump this information for year, sharing this with his white house for years and they've been in denial for years. in 2017, 2018, white house was desperate to contact an end-to-end systemic assessment of voter fraud.

we pushed back at the white house saying that's a very inappropriate thing for the department of homeland security to take on. it's not something we do. we've seen from dhs officials since then including that cybersecurity and infrastructure security believes the integrity of the vote is solid and i haven't heard any top officials from department of homeland security question the ballot system, mail-in system, like the president has. he's fallen fon russian propaganda over the information provided by his own law enforcement and intelligence officials. >> end of the day, is there anything director wray or the fbi can do about it? when you give the information, the best you can, and be then the president, you know, takes his microphone? >> well, this is the really frightening thing about it is, i spent years working with christopher wray's team at the fbi and our folks with the department of homeland security trying to design a bullet-proof system to fight back against

interference and most worried ak the russians coming back in 2018 and 2020 and other players like the chinese and iranians getting in the game. we built, and they're continuing to build out a very sophisticated structure to push back against the disinformation, punish the bad guys. a whole system. the problem is, when the president of the united states is the one spreading that disinformation, when the president is the one meddling in the election, what are they left to do? they can't countermessage their boss, sanction the president, all of these tool, we vo-of-wouvo-of would have to punish a foreign adversary they can't dough, again, it's their boss'sthe president has put our whole apparatus responsible for protecting elections in an almost impossible position. that's where republicans have to step forward and hold the president accountable and draw red lines tell him it's unacceptable to behave in this kind of rhetoric and behavior. >> what seems like a bratant

political move, something that is being considered, because cnn has new reporting about this move by the department of homeland security and what they are considering right now. putting up billboards, calling attention to immigrants who have committed crimes and released by local authorities. billboards put up by dhs aimed at sanctuary cities and it really seems, a really un -- would be an unprecedented move and seems pretty blatantly political. what do you think of this? >> kate, i'm going to tell you. i'm getting very frustrated with this and made a promise to a lot of people when i came out against the president the only name on my list for the better part of this period to the election was going to be donald trump's. he's the one on the ballot. the department of homeland security leadership, i say to you stop letting your agency get politicized. this president happen consistenty exploited dhs, an agency built to stop another 9/11. not to help a president's

re-election effort. he's consistently used it to benefit himself electorally and politically. it's wrong. not what they should be doing and the largest law enforcement agency should be seen at non-partisan. reports in the past days, kates, the department might launch major immigration raids in u.s. cities partly to coincide with the president's re-election. inappropriate. not what they should do and dhs leadership should step up and prevent their department from being abused by him in the white house. >> one month to go. myles, thank you very much. good to see you. >> thanks, kate, likewise. still ahead for us, warnings from wisconsin. the state very much in the midst of a covid surge, yet the particular ed is still full speed ahead with campaign rallies planned there this weekend.

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right now confirmed cases of coronavirus are rising in at least 27 states. that includes wisconsin, where they're facing the highest number of hospitalizations yet along with the highest number of deaths yet from covid. the number of people needing hospital care in the state has doubled in the last two weeks. seeing those numbers, the white house task force has called on the entire state of wisconsin to practice maximum social distancing, that's now they put it. local officials are sournding the alarm understandably, but still that's not stopping president trump going against science and his own tank force yet began planning to hold two rallies in wisconsin this weekend. in green bay, where one mp the rallies will be held, omar is joining me. what are you hearing there? >> reporter: kate, just heard

from state health officials who specifically pointed to their seven-day average of coronavirus cases saying that it is now more than three times what it was just a month ago, and this is coming off the heels of the deadliest day we have seen for coronavirus in wisconsin since this pandemic began, and wednesday they set a record for hospitalizations, just days after setting a record for cases in a single day. now, it is part of why when you look back at the numbers, say, in mid-june for example. we actually saw a relatively steady increase, but from the beginning of september until now, an absolute spike in the white house coronavirus spastic force, cited wisconsin for having one of the fastest rates of spread in the midwest, regional the fastest spreading in the country, according to johns hopkins and specifically the northeast part of state, one hospital we visited earlier today has now resorted to putting beds in the hallway just

to keep up with the pace of patients they've had coming in and the effects of this frightening trend have extended even outside of emergency departments. >> the first shutdown was, was hard, but, of course, with the ppe we applied very early and got it actually very quickly. that helped to get through that. laid off pretty much everybody except just me and my husband mostly here and our general manager dog food that whole time. coming back, it was actually a better commit than we expected, like all summer. now just in the tlaft two, three weeks again we've seen a definite dramatic slowdown with numbers rising. we'll see how it goes and really hoping and praying we don't have to shut down again. >> that hope is entirely dependent on the people here and the county points to covid fatigue, increased social activity and an inability to enforce the state-wide mask mandate currently in place as

factors in the rise in numbers that we've seen. kate? >> glad you're there, omar, on the ground. thank you. appreciate it. joining me now for more is dr. jorge rodriguez and internal medicine doctor and viral specialist. good to see you again doctor. first, your reaction to what we're hearing. what omar is hearing on the ground and the fact the particular ed is still planning to hold two campaign rallies in wisconsin this weekend? >> well, first of all, wisconsin is very personal to me because we have family in sheboygan and already alerting them. i want to recommend everybody to do, not to listen to what the president is saying. it's that simple for me. and not to take what he is doing as what you should do. we know that the white house is a different agenda. we know they're not always for fear of, they say, scaring people, not telling people exactly how serious this is. we are on the verge of a perfect collision of winter, of the flu, and of covid, and if you look at

the map of the united states, all of the northern states have increased cases. maybe it's the weather. we're expecting that to be a factor. so what i've saying is, do not let yourself be collateral damage. every state in the united states is going to probably see a surge over the next month to two months. masking we know work. distancing has to happen all the time. even when restrictions are decreased, that means that, yes, we can maybe be more free where we go, but still have to abide for our own good with masks and with distancing, and with washing our hands. it's really that simple. >> yeah. it is. yes. maybe folks are xauftdxaufrt ex it's going to get worse, not better. takes me to the white house and new reporting into cnn that, the learning that masks actually arrived to the would us in

february. sent over, but staffers were told by senior officials essentially not to wear them. i want to read a quote from one person in this piece. if you had the whole west wing running around wears masks, it wasn't a good look, one administration official recalled of the directive that came down from senior staff and lawyers. look, as you've mentioned, we've known the president, known about the president's concern over optics and was driving, the driving force of his response, but this reporting, i can tell you, takes it to a whole new level. what's your reaction to it? >> well, i read that this morning, actually, before this, and i thought it was very obscene, to the honest, because think was happening already and the national security people in february if not in late january were recommending that every wear masks. you know, it's not a good look, wearing a ventilator mask. that's not a good look. so to give people a false sense

of security is not only insulting to the american people, because i think we can handle "anything" as long as we know exactly what the truth is, and what we can do about it. and it's also putting people in harm's way. the optics, want tack opices? opices in the debate the other night at case western reserve, one of the medical meccas of this country, where they were enforcing masks but if you look at the trump posse, if you will, there was nobody wearing a mask. that tells people, right? first of all, it's weaponized. that tells people that it's okay not to wear a mask. you know what? it is not. and if you're lucky enough to not have this hit home, unfortunately, they're predicting at least another 200,000 deaths by end of the year. we're all going to be touched by it. >> yeah. i was going to say. what also is not good optics as more than 200,000 people dead from coronavirus. many lives could have been saved had masks been worn earlier.

dr. rodriguez, thank you. and turn now from the health aspect of the pandemic to also the massive economcast of the pandemic. job losses this week, astonishing. new numbers out today show 837,000 more americans filed for unemployment benefits for the first time. this, last week. last night two airlines, american and united, announced they're laying off a combined 32,000 employees after stimulus talks in congress failed again. here's cnn aviation correspondent pete muntean. >> reporter: kate, reality for the tens of are thousands of airline employees is setting in but they've been given a little glimmer of hope. they lobbies congress all summer for mother $25 billion to avoid this october 1st furlough clip by another six months. interesting, airlines are saying if congress gets its act together within the next few days, airlines could reverse the furlough process bringing tens of thousands of employees back

from the unemployment line. these are the new numbers from airlines overnight. american airlines, furloughing 19,000 people effective today. united airlines, more than 13,000. the total along with other smaller and regional airlines, more than 50,000 people will be furloughed industry-wide effective today. they are pilots, mechanics, date agents and flight attendants and givingen also hope because of statements from airlines. united says that we can reverse the furlough process if the c.a.r.e.s. act is extended with the next few days. you knonoknow, it's hard to wrar head around the number of losses. number of furloughs at american airlines alone could nearly fill capital arena here in washington, d.c. could pan out to be the worst single day of job losses in the entire history of aviation. >> awful. thank you very much. up next for us -- go into the fold and watch very

carefully. comments like that from the president, no less, have minnesota secretary of state afraid of what might happen on election day. he joins us next. so what's going on? i'm a talking dog. the other issue. oh...i'm scratching like crazy. you've got some allergic itch with skin inflammation. apoquel can work on that itch in as little as 4 hours, whether it's a new or chronic problem. and apoquel's treated over 8 million dogs. nice. and...the talking dog thing? is it bothering you? no...itching like a dog is bothering me. until dogs can speak for themselves, you have to. when allergic itch is a problem, ask for apoquel. apoquel is for the control of itch associated with allergic dermatitis and the control of atopic dermatitis in dogs. do not use apoquel in dogs less than 12 months old

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this just in to cnn. texas governor greg abbott just announced he is making moves to limit election drop boxes in the state. down to one per county. for the upcoming election. the move significantly impacts, impacts obviously every county in the state but especially impacting harris county. one of the state's largest counties, largest by population and one of the largest counties in the country. also, it's massive in size. and a democrat stronghold. taking the number of boxes in that county from 11 down to 1. the governor says done in the name of election security and allow poll watchers to monitor the drop locations but it could, understandably, very much limit access for voters. this as president trump continues to stoke fear in the security and integrity of the upcoming election raising the

question, is what we're seeing from the president voter intimidation from the president of the united states? here's cnn pamela brown. >> go in to the polls and watch very carefully. >> reporter: president trump's call for supporters to stake out polling places has state officials scrambling to respond to the potential for election day intimidation and possibly violence. the massachusetts' attorney general is trying to calm her voters and warn about intimidation. >> we're not going to let donald trump undermine our election. it's a crime. >> reporter: while 11 governors united to condemn the president's message as a threat to democracy writing, there is absolutely no excuse for promoting the intimidation or harassment of voters. >> in philadelphia, they went in to watch. they're called poll watchers. a very safe, very nice thing. they were thrown out. weren't allowed to watch. you know why? because bad things happen in philadelphia. bad things. >> reporter: but it wasn't a bad

thing. under state law poll watchers are not allowed in early voting locations. earlier that day, a false narrative began when a trump campaign staffer claimed pennsylvania democrats were scheming against the president asking in a tweet, what are they hiding? >> no one's being turned away, because there are poll watchers in these satellite offices. that is complete propaganda. >> reporter: the rnc claims to dispatch tens of thousands of election monitors across country, which both parties are entitled to do. language in facebook ads directing supporters to a campaign website called army for trump is raising concerns. >> we need every able-bodied man, woman, to join the army for trump's election security operation. >> reporter: as is this ad warning supporters, democrats are trying to tip the scales and to fight back. this is playing out as a federal court in montana is serving up a win to the state's democratic governor. republicans in the trump

campaign sued to stop an expansion of mail-in voting there on the basis of widespread fraud. the judge called that a "fiction." >> the president's allegations of fraud now have to be proven in court. and i know from my years of looking for this, that that group is not going to exist. >> reporter: and the trump campaign today is defending the president's comments about poll watchers saying they're critical to ensure fairness of any election saying all of donald trump's poll watchers will be trained properly to make sure all of are the rules are applied equally. also they claim they want all the watchers to be registered but bottom line here, kate, that is not what the president said, and the concern is that he is calling people to take it upon themselves to go to the polls and perhaps cause disruptions or voter intimidation, and that's why you're seeing so many state officials speaking out in the wake of the president's comments, kate. >> that's exactly right. pam, thank you so much for putting that together.

really appreciate it. joining me now is the democratic secretary of state of minnesota, steve simon who is the official in charge of overseeing elections there. thank you for being here, mr. secretary. just heard as pamela laid out well, and you heard the president during the debate calling on his supporters to go to the polls and in his words "watch carefully" even calling themselves and army for trump. al you told axios, i want to quote you, struck me, you were afraid of what this means saying i fear his supporters will take it upon themselves to mobilize large numbers to go to the polls as poll watchers. why is think so troubling now? >> the polling place is supposed to be an oasis of calm for voters where they can exercise their right to vote calmly and thoughtfully. fortunately in minnesota we have laws designed to protect that, but i worry about what happens outside the building. make no mistake in minnesota at least, throngs are people will not be allowed in the pomming

place. polling place. we have specific laws on that. what if the trump campaign mobilizing and the biden campaign mobilizes to send watchers to watch the watchers. i don't want that. i want word out in minnesota how clear the law is about limitation whose has access to the polling place. >> absolutely. i wonder if that happens, what do you do? also what do voters in minnesota, this is where we should focus a lot of our attention now. what do voters in minnesota need to know about what you're talking about? their rights when they go to polls in terms of what poll watchers can and can't do, and what they, what rights they have as voters when they go in to cast their ballot? >> well, voters have a right to be left alone. they have a right to be left in peace and not be intimidated or interfered with. our law is clear. we call them challenges in our law. under our law in minnesota, each major political party is only allowed one, a maximum of one.

not two or ten. one, in each polling place. they must be designated as a person in writing by a party unit and wungs thonce they get . strict limitations. can't come within six feet of a voter or tabulation equipment. can't speak to a voter. make a challenge to a voter's eligible, has to be based on personal knowledge. that's the exact wording of the law. can't be based on a hunch, a feeling, or a question. based on something the challenger knows or believes to be true about a particular voter. so a challenger could say, hey, i know her. she's not 18. lives on my block and is only 17. or hey, i know him, he's from sweden. not the united states. that's okay. but you can't say, hey, she looks funny. or, hey, i heard him speaking a language other than english. you can't do that in minnesota. so i have every confidence we will enforce that law. i can tell you that. so there will enbe one allowed. i'm more worried what's outside of the polling place to those

disappointed supporters of any candidate show up thinking they're allowed access and finding out they won't be. >> yeah. absolutely right. it's also important that they can't, you can't speak directly to the voters. those poll watchers. an important aspect. should bring comfort to people voting the first time or confused. all part of the process. i have to ask you, mr. secretary. the president held a rally in minnesota last night and he launched into a xenophobic attack on the minnesota congresswoman, democratic congresswom wowoman ilan omar. >> reading reports two years how corrupt and crooked she is. let's get with it. how the hell -- then tells us how to run our country. can you believe it? how the hell did minnesota elect

her? what the hell is wrong with you people? >> take this completely separate, secretary, from the, from his -- his claims of voter fraud and everything he's saying about that. i just wanted to know when you hear that if you would like to respond to the president as it happened in minnesota last night? >> yes. i sure would. he said that joe biden would turn minnesota into a refugee camp. guess what? my great-grandparents fled from eastern europe and would be then what we would now call refugees. they were happy to come to a place that accepted then, find a better life, build a better world and found that in minnesota. if that is what he means by refugee camp, that's a good thing. it's really unfortunate, unhelpful and intolerable that the president would say somebody that like, blow the dog whistles that he blew. it's -- it has no place in minnesota. put it that way. >> secretary, thank you very

much cofor coming on. appreciate it. >> thank you. still ahead for us, i'm speaking to the author of a new study that tracked down the single largest source of misinformation when it comes to coronavirus, and that source, sadly, may not surprise you at this point.

the president of the united states was likely the largest driver of covid-19 misinformation in the first few moss of the pandemic.

that quote is the sobering assessment coming from a new study by researchers at cornell. an reviewing tens of millions of news accounts all in english, more than one-third of misinformation about covid involved president trump, is what they found. the co-author of the study joins us right now and is a visiting fellow at the cornell alliance for science. good to see you. thank you for being here. can you lay this out for us? we're talking about more than 38 million newses c s caaccounts a articles reviewed. what led you to believe president trump was the largest misinformation driver of information aaron covid? >> hi, kate. good to e with you. yes, that's correct. we started out really wanting to answer the question what this infodemic, the director of the world health organization called it. the misinformation out there and where were they coming from so

we did a huge search of the online and traditional news media across the entire world in the industry in which we found 38 million pieces as you said, dealing with coronavirus and covid generally. of them about 1.1 million were tagged at misinformation or covering misinformation-type topics. of that 38% about were somehow associated with president trump. so we did conclude that the president of the united states was the single largest driver of coronavirus misinformation. >> the period of time that you studied was from january 1st to see essentially end of nay. i remind viewers just a couple of the comments that your research found prompting big spikes in the misinformation conversation. before i play this as we're talking about misinformation i say again, these suggestions are not accurate. they are misinformation. >> then i see the disinfectant, knocks it out in a minute.

one minute. and is there a way we can do something like that? like injection inside or -- almost a cleaning, because you see it gets in the lungs and does a tremendous number on the lungs. interesting to check that. >> a lot of good things have come out about the hydroxy. a lot of good things have come out. what has been determined is it doesn't harm you. >> what did you see after these comments? >> well, so the press conferences just play where the president was making these suggestions using disinfectant and internally in the body to cure coronavirus, that, i think a press conference on the 23rd of april at the white house. that led to an enormous spike in m misinformation. in fact it dwarf ares all others throughout the whole epidemic. that's the single largest component of the entire

misinformation phenomenon was the president's comments particularly about that disinfectant issue. >> what are the real-life implications of this in the midst of an ongoing pandemic? >> well, i mean, in an ideal world you'd hope that the head of state would be prauv promulg information to save lives and ensure as few people as possible catch the virus and those who do catch it self-isolate and do all the things needed to keep the pandemic under control. now, obviously, we're not in that situation, and the extent of misinformation is deeply concerning. if you don't have accurate information reaching the general public, then people are not going to behave in ways which keeps the pandemic under control. potentially more people get sick or die. that's what's so important, and what the world health conversation was drawing

attention to the infodemic to start with. >> the fact misinformation was the biggest threats in the midst of this pandemic because of the severity of the implications of it. thank you. interesting work. thanks for coming on. coming up next for us, the moderator of that mess of a presidential debate is speaking out. what chris wallace just said about what happened tuesday night. from medicare. fraudsters, they're out to get your medicare number so they can bill fake claims in your good name. don't give them that chance. just calling to confirm your medicare number. do you have your card available? for example, if the caller says they're from medicare, watch out. it's probably a scam. don't give out your card number. and always check your claims statements for errors. report fraudulent charges to 1-800-medicare. guard your card. learn more at medicare.gov/fraud. i will send out an army to find you

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the unfair money bail system. he, accused of rape. while he, accused of stealing $5. the stanford rapist could afford bail; got out the same day. the senior citizen could not; forced to wait in jail nearly a year. voting yes on prop 25 ends this failed system, replacing it with one based on public safety.

because the size of your wallet shouldn't determine whether or not you're in jail. vote yes on prop 25 to end money bail. traffic and air pollution will be even worse after the pandemic. that's why we support measure rr to keep caltrain running. which is at risk of shutdown because of the crisis. to keep millions of cars off our roads, to reduce air pollution and fight climate change. and measure rr helps essential workers like me get to work and keep our communities healthy. relieve traffic. reduce pollution. rescue caltrain. [all] yes on measure rr. disservice to the country that's how chris wallace is describing the off the rails debate between

president trump and joe biden. wallace speaking on fox news. he says it was frustrating. you can hear it in his voice. he's unequivocal who to blame. >> hundreds of hours went in to prepare a serious, substantive debate, on so many issues, biden's tax and spending plans. trump's environmental policies. i was really hoping for the debate america wanted to see, which was a serious change of views. i felt like i had gotten together all the ingredients, baked this beautiful, delicious, cake. frankly, the president put his foot in it. that was frustrating. >> maybe an understatement. joining me brian stelter, chief media correspondent and host of "reliable sources." brian, what else did wallace

say? >> he says it was trump's fault. he doesn't want to rewatch the debate. i don't think most people do. he didn't realize until about 40 minutes in how badly it was going. fundamentally that's the problem and a warning to future moder e moderators. you have to imagine how it's going to go. wallace had a failure of imagination what trump was going to do. how do you moderate a wrecking ball? you don't. wrecking balls aren't supposed to show up for presidential debates. the commission is talking about what changes to make. that's why the trump campaign is arguing against any possible changes. seems like they want to have two more debates like this one, and nobody else wants that. >> did wallace talk about that today, did you hear, brian, the potential changes? >> right. this idea about cutting off the microphone of interrupter. he's skeptical. he thinks it would be uncomfortable for the moderator to be empowered to make that

kind of decision. it would put the moderator in much less of a neutral position. he's skeptical. he opponents out if his microphone is cut off, biden would still be able to hear what he's saying. steve scully should use the town hall voters to ask questions as a shield, as a human shield, against this kind of behavior. look, it all cass down to this basic behavior, you can't moderate a wrecking ball. let's see what the commission comes up with. wallace has a lot of regrets and i can understand why. he's a veteran journalist at the pinnacle of his career. >> he is a pro. i do feel for him. hindsight is 2020. it's super easy to armchair quarterback something. you know, he was in the middle of it with all of that incoming. i agree on the lack of imagination and should anticipate trump was going to be a mess and try to hijack it.

>> what do you do? by the way, 73 million viewers on television. this was the third most watched debate in modern history. this was the biggest things since the super bowl. even though it was leak a car crash, it was a car crash people kept watching. that only increases anticipation next time. we have the vp debate next week but then the presidential debate. the commission has a lot on its hands how to handle the next one. >> thanks for bringing it to us. appreciate it. i'm kate bolduan. thanks for joining us. "the lead" picks up after the break. [ squawks ] 'cause you're not like everybody else. that's why liberty mutual customizes your car insurance, so yowhat?y pay for what you need. oh, i said... uh, this is my floor. nooo! only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪

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welcome to t"the lead." after the disastrous debate, hoping it will sink in with the boss he didn't do as well as he thought he did as many urge him to explicitly condemn white supremacist and the proud boys, a right group. for two consecutive days the president has been unwilling to give a declarative, definitive statement rejecting views and he's continued to rachet up bigoted rhetoric. last night he