good evening. thanks for being with us. after a long weekend at walter reed medical center, the president of the united states returned to the white house, a little more than an hour ago. three days since he was taken to the hospital. four days since we learned of his illness. and we still do not know how serious his condition was and is. the president is infected with coronavirus, and he is highly contagious. yet, before going into a white house, the president took off his mask, and posed for a photo op, as the helicopter which brought him departed. he, then, turned around and, without his mask, walked inside. back into a white house, that's now already seen more covid infections in the last several days than the entire country of new zealand has. with his photo op, the president was trying to project strength. what he proved was his complete disregard for anyone else forced to be around him. and in case you thought the whole thing wasn't a public-relations stunt, once he was inside and most people were no longer watching, he came back outside with a camera crew to

walk back inside. that's right. they restaged what was already a completely staged event. and yes, still, no mask. tonight, there's still so much we do not know about the president's health. we don't know why he was given the kind of drug treatment generally reserved for only the most serious cases. including, one sometimes mood altering medicine, a steroid, that can make a person feel better than the underlying condition actually is. perhaps, just because he is the president and he could get it. but it is very rare that anybody would get this kind of treatment. we don't know if he is being -- what he's being watched for or medicated to prevent. serious complications, like blood clots, we don't know if he has had lung damage. that's one of the topics his doctors refuses to say anything about. we don't even have a hint as to when he actually contracted the virus. and that's important. we don't even know when his last negative test was. he was supposed to be tested every day. that's what they've always claimed. but they refuse to say when his

last negative test was. there's no reason, unless there is a reason, that they wouldn't say that. some of that is important because he's commander in chief and his wellbeing matters to everybody. but so much, also, matters to all the people that he has come in contact with. hundreds of them at the rose garden, two weekends ago. at his campaign rallies. thousands, really. or the debate in cleveland. where none of his family wore masks. it matters to all the people he came into contact with at bedminster on thursday, when, at the very least, he knew his senior adviser hope hicks had been infected and the white house chose to pull other people off that trip because they had been around hope hicks, as had president trump. but they still let him go. we had no answers to any of that when he left for the hospital, and none tonight, shortly after the president tweeted that he was leaving the hospital, white house physician sean conley spoke with reporters but said very little about any of that. >> pneumonia or any inflammation in his lungs at all? >> so, we -- we've done routine,

standard imaging. i'm just not at liberty to discuss. >> you're not telling us what those lung scans showed, just to be clear. >> so, there are hipaa rules and regulations that restrict me in sharing certain things for his safety and his -- and his own health and -- and reasons. >> his own reasons. he doesn't want people to know about what's going on with his lungs. as for hipaa, the medical privacy act, we'll be joined shortly by someone who helped write it, who simply says that's not the way it works. no answer from the doctor, either, to whether he is being treated for possible blood clots, which many patients get. >> is he on blood thinners? and also, has he been using -- have you been giving him tylenol, advil? >> that came up. i would like to say he has not been on any fever-reducing medications for over 72 hours. >> what about the blood thinners? >> yeah.

he's on a routine regimen of covid therapy. i'm not going to go into specifics specifics as to what he is and is not on. >> we have no insight, nor do we really know how long, as i said, the president's been infected. >> could you tell us, please, on testing, can you tell us when he had his last negative test? was it thursday? was it wednesday? do you remember when he had his last, negative test? >> i don't want to go backwards. >> when was his last negative test? and what was his viral load? >> everyone wants that. >> did he have any abnormal tests? or were any of his lab tests abnormal? >> again, hipaa kind of precludes me from going in too much depth. >> dr. conley never answered. no one in the white house will answer that question. when was his last, negative

test? remember, they said the president was being tested every single day. that was the reason why he could wander around without a mask. because he had been tested every day. that's what they were saying. he -- they said -- they told the committee on presidential debates, on the day of the debate, on tuesday when the president arrived late, that he had passed a test within the last 72 hours. there's no proof of that. where is the -- where -- if this guy's being tested every single day, if the president's being tested every single day. if the vice president's being tested every single day, there should be a record of it. why wouldn't they tell people and show people? make sure to let you know that jared kushner and ivanka trump just recently tested negative. it raises the specter that president could have been exposed for days before we learned of his positive test. remember, he traveled to new jersey for a fundraiser after hope hicks had tested positive. and the day before that, he was in minnesota for a rally before thousands of people, and flew back on the plane with hope hicks, in which she got ill. and isolated on the plane and

then left through a separate entrance -- exit. before that, he shared the debate stage with joe biden and promised that he'd been -- that he was negative. there's no evidence was ever presented of that. all they have to do is to answer the question, when was his last negative test? they won't do it. dr. conley also declined to explain the physical provisions for keeping others at the white house safe from the president's infection. he did, however, call the president, quote, a phenomenal patient. patient who tweeted today telli telling americans, quote, don't be afraid of covid. don't let covid dominate your life. might be the most disturbing and heartless and out-of-touch thing this man has ever said, and that is saying a lot. don't be afraid of covid. don't let covid dominate your life. he did not mention the more than 210,000 americans, as of tonight, who had no choice in the matter. 210,000 americans, who are dead, and didn't have the kind of medical care that that man has. didn't get this -- this kind of treatment. didn't have access to it.

in some cases, could barely get treated, until they had to be on a ventilator. then, they'd be allowed in the hospital. they weren't rush today a hospital on a helicopter. they weren't given the top treatment, as the president should. he's the president of the united states. but if he is now using this as an example that he, now, knows what -- what covid is. he's -- he's -- now understands it, as he said earlier in a video. he doesn't understand what the -- what most americans go through. the virus chose those people's fate and, to a large extent, by his words and his actions, including taking off that mask, tonight, for the photo op, fine. he walks around. he walks into the white house, where there's people standing around and they have to be there. and they have to have a smile on their face even though, thankfully, they get to wear a mask because they work with them. and he doesn't care about them and they know that, tonight. and that's the one thing they know about him. nearly seven and a half million

people have now caught this virus. today, we learned white house press secretary kayleigh mcenany and two assistants have had it. kayleigh mcenany, who said back in april -- or back in, i guess it was early february, great thing about this president. he'll never let the coronavirus come to america. a virus like the coronavirus come here. campaign manager bill stepien, positive. coronavirus. the president's body man, chris christie, according to "new york times." two members of the housekeeping department in the residence have also tested positive. they didn't have direct contact with the family. as have three members of the press corps. and the white house will not tell them when the president last tested negative? how do you do contact tracing if you don't even know when the person tested negative and when the person tested positive? how do you -- how do you tell people? who do you even know who to contact? it's a mess and cnn's jim acosta is there for us. jim, the photo op, i was going to say was a surreal scene. it's not actually surreal. it's a scene we've seen in,

like, some of the stan countries when, you know, a dictator wants to, you know, have -- put on a big show. like something we used to see in the marcos regime. and then, the fact that he had to go and restage it is just incredible. i'm wondering what you are hearing from -- from the sources you talk to. >> yeah. this was not -- it was more like covita given the fact that the president is bringing the coronavirus back to the white house. but, you know, we just noticed this as we were reviewing the video of the president's return a short while ago. you can see him entering the white house from the truman balcony about 7:00 p.m. eastern time. he comes back out at around 7:08. and then, reshoots his reentry into the white house. we now know this was a white house videographer who was shooting this because, just a few minutes ago, anderson, the president tweeted out a video of his message returning to the white house. and it's even more surreal and absurd than what we just witnessed, about an hour ago. he says, at one point in this video, that i know now i'm

better. maybe, i'm immune. i don't know. but don't let it dominate your lives. get out there and be careful. he goes on to, at one point towards the end of the video, suggest that the coronavirus vaccine is going to be out momentarily. and so, once again, the president, as he has before he contracted the coronavirus, during his illness with coronavirus at the hospital, and now with his return to the white house, he is spreading misinformation. much like he's been spreading the virus around, it appears, over the last several days. >> yeah. i mean, he's still shedding virus. i mean, he's still highly infectious. >> that's right. >> the fact that he took off his mask for the photo op. then, walked into the white house. it's clear. i mean, to me, it seems like he's going to kind of -- you know, there were a couple different ways he could have handled this. some people thought, well, maybe he is going to have a kind of epiphany and realize, you know, and -- and from here on out, really encourage people to wear -- wear a mask. knowing that most people don't have access to the kind of

experimental treatments that -- that he got, unfortunately for them. good for him that he was able to get it. but he's doing sort of what bolsonaro in brazil decided to do, which is, he's going to basically say he's, you know, this shows him to be a superman. he defeated this. it's not a big deal. don't worry about it. just -- i mean, is he going to continue to walk around the white house without a mask? do we know? >> he's kind of a patient zero, anderson. i mean, you know, my understanding is, from talking to sources, he wants to go back to the way life was before he got the coronavirus. and it's just not possible for him. yes, he took the mask off as he went back into the white house. and he has scoffed at mask use. but it's just unthinkable that he would continue walking around the white house without wearing a mask. but that appears to be what he is planning on doing. as he was returning to the white house, this evening, there were other white house officials taking off their masks, who were just in close proximity.

anderson, they live inside a different reality over here at the white house. and that is what -- what is just so damn frustrating covering this presidency. because we have seen this from the very beginning of this administration. but it is now so critical because a deadly virus is circulating inside the west wing. i was just in the lower and upper press areas of the west wing, anderson, where the white house press staffers and communication staffers work every day. it is gone. it's empty. they're all gone. and that is because they've essentially had to flee the building because this is something of a hot zone. and so, you know, the president may be interested in going back to the oval office. he may be interested in getting back to business. but there aren't a whole lot of people here to help him get back to business because they have had to evacuate the building because of this deadly virus that's circulating around. it is -- it's just -- it's stunning. it is jaw-dropping and -- and -- and just the stupidity of what we are seeing, tonight, anderson. >> yeah. jim acosta, appreciate it. joining us now, cnn political

analyst, "new york times" white house correspondent, maggie haberman. cnn chief medical correspondent, dr. sanjay gupta. also, thomas frieden, and cnn political analyst, gloria borger. sanjay, is there any -- i mean, how contagious is he right now? i know we don't know when he tested positive. i know we don't know when he last tested negative. so we don't know where he is in the arc of this virus. but is there any medical justification for him going back to the white house and taking off his mask? >> no. there -- there really is not. you know, it's -- it's tough to know how contagious he is because we don't have some of those basic facts, as you point out. we don't know where he is in his disease course. but, you know, i mean, he has a contagious, deadly disease. he should be in isolation. i think most people know that, by now. and he hasn't been in isolation. he went on this car ride last night or yesterday evening. obviously, another short car ride. then, a helicopter ride. and walked inside without his

mask on. so that -- that area that he's walked inside, there were people around him. that area. i mean, first of all, those people may be at increased risk. remember, they are wearing masks, mostly, to protect him. he's already got the disease. he's not wearing a mask, even though he has the disease, to protect them. and then, the area that he walks inside, that will likely have to be decontaminated. so, this is -- this is really reckless. you know, anderson. >> is it -- sanjay, is it legal? i mean, if somebody walked into a -- a costco, who was covid positive, and wandered around, intentionally, without a mask. i mean, is that allowed? i mean, is that legal? >> no. well, i -- i don't know the legality of it. i mean, that's an interesting question. i mean, we're dealing with this, now, for the first time really, this -- this sort of thing. but -- but i mean, obviously, even -- everyone is told that they have to wear masks if they go indoors, into these public places. and that's regardless, irrespective of whether or not you have a positive covid diagnosis. everyone has to behave like they

have the virus. i don't know what the enforcement is. i think it's different, in different states. although, to your point, maybe, if it's clear the person has covid and then knowingly exposed people. i'm sure that may be a different issue. he has it. i mean, this isn't conjecture or, you know, sort of just trying to be safe. he has the -- the virus. we know that. and he -- so, again, we don't know how contagious he is, at this point in his illness. but clearly, he's putting those other people at risk. and -- and that entire space that he just walked into would now need to be disinfected. >> maggie, what are you hearing from -- from people you hear from in the white house about what is going on inside that building? >> look. you have a president, who, as jim correctly said in the segment before this, wants to come back. wants to act as if nothing has changed. wants to show strength. wants to show people that he has beat this virus. he has not yet beat this virus. he is doing better, as we understand it. and sanjay can speak to this much better than i can but he is

on a pretty extensive course of drugs and that is helping, i think, probably mask some of the symptoms he might be having, otherwise, without them. he is not healthy, as far as we know. we have no reason to believe that he is not contagious and if he isn't, they haven't told us that. he wants to pretend this doesn't exist. it's the exact same thing that we saw him do since march. and all i kept thinking watching this video, anderson. and to be clear, by the way, people in the white house, to answer your question, are freaking out. they are really, really worried about lack of precautions. there's been almost no notification from the white house chief of staff, mark meadows, to staffers about what they should do. it's only now, in month whatever this is, seven or so, of the pandemic, that they are allowing even the possibility of west wing staff to telework, which most companies have been doing for months. this is a president who wants to pretend that none of this is happening. if you are someone who lost a parent or didn't get to visit a parent or cancelled your wedding. ilkd go do i could go down the list. and you see the president of the

united states take his mask off, knowing he is potentially infecting other people, i don't know why he thinks that is a political positive. >> dr. frieden, the president said don't be afraid of covid. don't let it dominate your life. i certainly understand, you know, don't let it dominate your life. you know, he wants to get people back to work. but he wants people not to be afraid of covid. fear is not a bad thing. doesn't mean it paralyzes you. but there is a reason the body feels fear. it's to protect yourself and to protect other people. there are more than 210,000 americans dead from this disease. is there any other reading of that tweet, other than beyond irresponsible? >> well, as you say, anderson, it's one thing to say don't let it dominate your life and that's a reasonable approach. and you think about fear. let me just give you one set of numbers to think about. when the president was diagnosed, on last thursday, another 40,000 americans were

diagnosed on that same day. and by our best estimates, about 200,000 americans became infected on that day. of those 200,000, about a thousand will die from this. and of those who get the infection from others, they may feel fine. but they may pass it to those who, then, die from it. anyone who underestimates this virus is putting themselves at risk. they are putting their family at risk. and they're putting those for whom they have responsibility at risk. >> gloria, you know, dr. frieden raises a really good point. in -- in the three nights that he was at walter reed, i don't have the actual death toll how many americans died of covid-19. but none of them were receiving the -- the experimental treatments with a team of doctors like this president has had assembled. and again, he's the president of the united states. he should get the best health care. but so should everybody else.

>> sure. >> and, you know, that -- his experience is -- is different than every other covid patient out there. >> well, let me just parse a little bit from his video that he did tonight. because it's sort of stunning to me, and i think it speaks to your point. he said i stood out front. i led. nobody that's a leader would not do what i did. i know there's a risk. there is a danger. that's okay. and now, i'm better and, maybe, i'm immune. is he talking about the risk he took in taking the regeneron drug? is he talking about the risk he took in -- in the other drugs he's on? is he talking about the risk he took in going back to the white house and infecting other people? >> no, see, i -- no, no. i think what he is doing is he's taking a cue from one of the folks on fox who i think it was the first one to kind of push this idea and i think they fully embraced it now. >> he is a leader. >> yeah. that he -- he has willingly

sacrificed himself over the last several months, because he needed to lead and protect us all from this. and he has taken this upon himself when, in fact, as maggie's reporting shows, i mean, that is -- maggie, is that -- does that seem to be, maggie, the -- the -- the message they are trying to project now? >> there is a couple different messages they're trying to project, anderson. some of them, frankly, are in conflict with one another. but one of them is, indeed. you know, i was vulnerable because i'm the president. i can't go hide in the basement. that's their line about joe biden and they are also using it here. i had to go show that i was around. and look. there is something to that, right? as the president of the united states, he can't -- he can't be out of sight. that's very different because it's always a black or white with him. there's never any in between. and so, it can't be, you know, maybe he didn't have to have amy coney barrett large event both outdoors and indoors last weekend that seems to be at the epicenter of this. that, maybe, he could have encouraged people to wear masks. he paints it in all-or-nothing

terms, and he is hoping his supporters will grab onto that. one other thing, anderson, that they are trying to paint this as is as if this is another long line of fights which the president has been successful. one was against impeachment. one was against, you know, the media. that's not most people's experience with the coronavirus or -- or everyone's experience with the coronavirus. >> and one more thing, anderson. i spoke -- i spoke with somebody who talked to the president this morning. >> uh-huh. >> and he said to me, look, the president sees himself as a war -- and he -- he will defeat covid. and he is going to take that message to the american people. what i did for myself, i'm going to do for you and that's how i'm going to bring you the vaccine. >> everyone, stick around. we are going to pick this up shortly. next. one of the people who helped write the hipaa legislation dr. conley kept falling back on today. we'll talk to her. later, former white house chief of staff on a west wing in crisis under siege from the

coronavirus, leon panetta joins us. and dr. celine gounder. we'll be right back. new projects means new project managers. you need to hire. i need indeed. indeed you do. the moment you sponsor a job on indeed you get a short list of quality candidates from our resume database. claim your seventy five dollar credit, when you post your first job at indeed.com/home. it's so good to see you. you too! so really, how are you? oh well, look! that's what we're both taking right now, fanapt. you know it's really been helping me manage my schizophrenia. i used to hear these terrible voices. loser! you're such a failure. you're so embarrassing. i used to feel like everyone was staring at me.

but we're doing much better now, right? yeah. fanapt is approved for the treatment of schizophrenia in adults. in clinical trials, fanapt significantly improved symptoms of schizophrenia compared to placebo. fanapt may change your heart rhythm which could elevate risk of sudden death. your doctor will consider this when deciding among treatments and may prescribe another medication first or may instruct you to take a smaller dosage of fanapt. the good thing to know, is we're not alone. call 8557 fanapt beautiful. but when i started cobra kai, the lack of control over my business made me a little intense. but now i practice a different philosophy. quickbooks helps me get paid,

manage cash flow, and run payroll. and now i'm back on top... with koala kai. hey! more mercy. save over 30 hours a month with intuit quickbooks. the easy way to a happier business.

president returned from walter reed tonight and went back inside the white house, but only after he took off his mask, posted a propaganda video as well on twitter. yet, for all that, he and his doctors left us largely in the dark about the severity of his condition, which continues. or when he caught it. which matters to all the people he's come in contact with, which makes this so unnerving. >> last negative test was.

>> any abnormal test? were any of his lab tests abnormal? >> again, hipaa kind of precludes me from going into too much depth and things i'm not at liberty or doesn't wish to be discussed. at some future point, maybe. but today, sorry. >> he's basically saying the president doesn't want him to discuss when his last negative test was. that's what he just indicated. hipaa, he said. the patient doesn't want it discussed. our next guest knows, firsthand, all about hipaa. former hhs vsecretary, donna shalala, joins us now. you helped brigwrite it. i am wondering what you make of dr. conley's invocation, repeatedly, of hipaa in order to not give out information. >> well, the translation of what he said and he -- i was responsible for the regulations that implemented the privacy act in hipaa. what he was really saying is my

patient, donald trump, has not given me permission to be transparent, to tell you, to answer your questions about his condition. it's not hipaa that stood in the way. hipaa simply says you have to have permission from the patient to reveal the information. so, if you're a nurse or a doctor or a pharmacist or you run a hospital or an insurance -- health insurance company, you can't reveal an individual's health situation, without their permission. so, what he should have said is that the president won't let me say this. >> right. which he did, i mean, he said it kind of in passing and a parenthetical part of a larger sentence. but i mean, your point is -- is such an excellent one. i mean, it certainly confirms what i was -- thought watching him and some of the things he was saying. he invokes hipaa, meaning mr. trump doesn't want me to say, when discussing the president's ct scans on his lungs. which, certainly, then raises

questions, well, why doesn't the president want you to know anything about his lungs? cause they're fine going into, you know, some details on oxygen levels when they were -- once he was in the hospital. he wouldn't talk about how low oxygen levels were when he was at the white house, which led to them, you know, rushing him over to -- to the hospital in a helicopter. so he certainly -- it looks like he's cherry picking which medical facts to share. but it's clearly the president cherry picking what medical facts he wants conley to share. >> it's all on the president. the president doesn't understand the people in this country need to know. it's both a national security risk. i mean, the people in this country are -- we're all very strong. we got through a couple of world wars, a depression, recessions. we can take it. we need to know the details, and every time the doctor gets out and the other doctors get out, they leave unanswered questions. but it's because the president

has not given them permission to reveal all of the information. he does not want to be transparent. >> yeah. >> who's surprised? >> that is such an important point. i'm so glad you -- we had the person who knows all about it. congresswoman shalala, thank you so much. i got to go back with our medical and political team. things are moving very fast. sanjay, i mean, it's so telling that it's clearly donald trump doesn't want this information out. why would the lungs be of concern? and -- and -- and i mean, the bigger question, i guess, is why would the president not want somebody to know the last time he actually tested negative? because that seems pretty damning. >> we're talking about a respiratory virus, here, that, you know, we know is -- it acts in -- on all sorts of different organ systems in the body. but, you know, you do think of the lungs as being one of those primary organ systems. and he, also, had these periods of time where he dropped his -- his blood oxygenation. so there was clearly some -- some impact on his lungs.

getting a chest x-ray. even a chest ct. i'm sure it's been done. and, in fact, the doctor sort of intimated that it had been done and even had findings. they just wouldn't say what those findings were. they say it's consistent with his clinical course. well, what is his clinical course? is he -- is it more severe? is it milder? the fact that they won't say, you know, is very suspicious because if it was fine or even mild, presumably, they would have said something. and they -- they sort of answered the same thing about other things as well, including whether or not he is on blood thinners, which would also give some indication of how significant this disease is. with regard to the last test, anderson, you sort of brought it up before. i mean, it was interesting. when you look at the debate protocols going back to tuesday, now. they only required an fda-authorized test, within 72 hours. basically, you had to just submit whether it was negative. cleveland clinic, which was overseeing those debate protocols didn't need to see the

test. they just needed to have your word on it and it needed to be within 72 hours. >> that's incredible to me. that's incredible to me. >> i'm really surprised. yeah. i'm really surprised because we've talked, so many times, about the fact that as we start to think about opening up the public again, the idea of having daily tests would be important. and everyone kept thinking that people at the white house were getting tested daily. i think it's becoming increasingly clear they weren't. got complacent with this whole thing and stopped testing. >> maggie, i did a town hall with vice president biden, i guess, a week or so before the debate. i had to get a covid test and prove it that day. the idea that it's -- the committee on presidential debates was fine with a 72-hour window. from a medical standpoint. maggie, do we know for a fact that the white house was actually testing the president every single day? because isn't that what they were saying all along? >> we don't know, anderson, to be clear. i don't have the reporting on what the commission of presidential debates. i don't know that to be true.

72 hours out. that seems strange to me. so, i can't speak to that. in terms of the president being tested every day, we just have the honor system. right? which is they tell us what they are going to say and this is not a white house that has a lot of credibility, by its own -- by its own hand. so, they told -- have told us, previously, he was being tested every day. at one point, kayleigh mcenany said he was tested more than once, on some days. something the president did not like. we don't know when that last negative test was. and that could be for one of two reasons. it could be because they don't want to say because they weren't testing every day. or they don't want to say because the positive test was before we've been told, at this point. and i think those are unanswered questions that hopefully we can learn, at some point. >> and -- and, gloria, if either of those are true, that they weren't testing every day and, therefore, they -- we don't know. it's impossible to know when he did turn positive because he hadn't been tested for so long. or he -- he was lying about it,

longer than he was lying about it to sean hannity on thursday night. that would be incredibly damning. even more damning than what we already know. >> well, remember, chris wallace said that the president got there late on the debate night. and i don't know whether they were testing people on debate night or whatever. but we know that the president did not get tested there. look. the timeline, as sanjay has been saying over and over and over again, is important here because we have to know when the president got sick, in order to know who else might get sick. because you have to do the contact tracing. and that is really not able to occur in any real and verifiable way because the white house has decided to hide it. now, you know, in the old days, you know, if you have something to hide, you know, you hide it. and i think, in this -- in this particular case, if you don't have something to hide, you don't hide it. and in this case, he is hiding it. so, you have to say, why?

why is the white house not telling us an easy answer? which would be, okay, he was last tested on x and this is -- and this is why. it's -- it's crazy. >> dr. frieden, "the new york times" is reporting tonight that the white house, specifically white house chief of staff mark meadows, is blocking new fda guidelines on the emergency release of a vaccine that would almost guarantee no vaccine could be authorized before the election. the fda basically put out these guidelines or wants for responsible, you know, study of -- of any protocols. there would be this -- two months would be allowed for the people who are taking part in the trials, to see how they are, two months afterward. just to make sure this thing is safe. the white house doesn't want that two-month period, according to "the new york times." does that, other than they want to get it out before the election for political reasons, is there any reason the white house should even be involved in these decisions of -- of how the

vaccine is actually studied and what guidelines are? >> what we're seeing, anderson, is a white house that keeps overruling science. and it comes back to haunt them. if you say we're going to test, without recognizing testing's just one part of safety. if you say we're not going to isolate, you're going to have people spreading it. you're not going to quarantine, you are going to have a cluster. and in this case, what you are doing is potentially undermining confidence in the vaccine. we all want a vaccine out there, as soon and safely as possible. but a vaccine is not going to be a magical ending to this -- to this pandemic. we're going to have to have a comprehensive approach. and even if, and when, we have a safe and effective vaccine, it's not going to work unless it's trusted. and it's not going to be trusted unless it follows all of the procedures, with no corners cut and if people don't take it, it won't protect us. >> but, dr. frieden, you're the former head of the cdc. i mean, can the white house just put the kibosh on what the fda

wants to do to make sure this is safe? >> apparently, yes. this president and this fda. the risk, here, is that, if people don't trust the vaccine, they won't get it and will spread it more. what we're seeing is we have reel too la real tools to fight this pandemic. whether it's testing, contact tracing, isolation, masks, distancing, handwashing. all these tools work and what we are seeing is this administration blunting or breaking each of these tools, in succession. and the next one, and the most important one, is the vaccine because if people don't take it, then it's not going to be able to protect us and help us get back to a new normal, quickly. >> we're out of time. but, sanjay, i just have to ask you what you think of this because for weeks now, we have been saying, people have been saying, well, look. everybody guarantees this the way this vaccine's going to be released. you know, it goes through this commit kwl committee and they don't meet until such and such a date. seems like the white house can

get their way on this. >> yeah. i mean, they might be able to. there is still a couple escape hatches, if you will. there is another committee that can still decide that they're going to basically follow the guidelines that the fda sort of telegraphed. as you point out, they didn't get those guidelines approved. this is basically saying we want to wait two months to ensure it's safe. seemed like a pretty logical thing and maybe this other committee will sort of step up and still sort of make those guidelines happen. >> all right. everyone, thank you very much. once back in the white house, where exactly will president trump work? how much danger might he be putting his staff and those around him in? will he be wandering around without a mask? i'll talk with a former white house chief of staff about what goes on behind those doors, tonight, when we continue. no uh uh, no way come on, no no n-n-n-no-no only discover has no annual fee on any card. it's our sharpest ever,

and while some other companies would charge more for something new, we don't. because why be like everyone else? harry's. not the same. with priceline, you can get up to 60% off amazing hotels. and when you get a big deal... ...you feel like a big deal. ♪ priceline. every trip is a big deal. now you can trade stocks and etfs... introducing...stocks by the slice from fidelity for any amount you choose... instead of buying by the share. and fidelity allows you to trade fractional shares of stocks and etf's for as little as one dollar. that's more choice and more flexibility than you'll find at schwab all with no commissions, no account fees and no minimums. stocks by the slice from fidelity. get your slice today.

inflammation in your eye might be to blame.ck, looks like a great day for achy, burning eyes over-the-counter eye drops typically work by lubricating your eyes and may provide temporary relief. ha! these drops probably won't touch me. xiidra works differently, targeting inflammation that can cause dry eye disease. what is that? xiidra, noooo! it can provide lasting relief. xiidra is the only fda approved treatment specifically for the signs and symptoms of dry eye disease. one drop in each eye, twice a day.

don't use if you're allergic to xiidra. common side effects include eye irritation, discomfort or blurred vision when applied to the eye, and unusual taste sensation. don't touch container tip to your eye or any surface. after using xiidra, wait 15 minutes before reinserting contacts. got any room in your eye? talk to an eye doctor about twice-daily xiidra. i prefer you didn't! xiidra. not today, dry eye.

with president trump now back at the white house, a person familiar with the plans tells cnn temporary offices have been set up for him next to the white house medical suite. that suite includes examination room, as well as office of dr. sean conley. the expectation is that this new workspace will help isolate the president away from the west wing, where staffers, including his press secretary, have faced a fresh outbreak. joining me now, someone who knows a great deal working in the white house. leon panetta. also, want to welcome dr. celine gounder. medical analyst and infectious disease specialist. you and i have been talking since the beginning about the setup of this white house, how this white house is run. what do you make of how this white house has handled these past few days and last week, really? >> i -- i -- i think -- i think

the chaos that we've seen, in the last four years, has been repeated over these last few days because i saw a white house that was not -- not in charge. nobody was in charge. they were having briefings, hit and miss with regards to the president's situation. the staff, i don't think has been fully informed about what steps they ought to take, in order to protect themselves. i think the chief of staff should've set up a command headquarters at -- at walter reed. i just think that there is a sense that the president, who has a covid-19 virus, that is impacting not just on his health care. it's impacting on the country. it is a national security issue. and i'm afraid that none of the white house was treating it as a national security issue. >> dr. gounder, with the

president back at the white house, walking in without a mask. we don't know if he's willing to wear a mask most of the time when he's there. i mean, should he be in the white house? >> well, anderson. i think the president still has not learned, despite having said he's gone to covid/coronavirus school, now, having acquired the virus himself. he, still, has not learned the most basic lesson of this pandemic, which is wear a mask. it'll protect you. it'll protect others. and so, it has me very concerned, you know, back when i was assistant commissioner of health and new york city, when we had a patient with an infectious disease that is airborne, like tuberculosis, i would sign court orders to require them to be hospitalized on the special pathogens unit at bellevue. unfortunately, we can't do that, in this case. but, you know, he is presenting a very real threat to others in his working and living environment. >> secretary panetta, i mean, you are familiar with inside the white house. you know, it's a busy, cramped work environment. i think that surprises,

probably, a lot of people who haven't been there. do you see a way for the president to remain apart from his political staff? i mean, this idea of him sort of being in the basement near the medical facilities? does that seem like it can work? >> i'm -- i'm not sure what they're thinking. you know, the problem is we have a president of the united states who has covid-19 virus. he still is contagious. he's taking heavy medications. he is taking steroids. i mean, he -- he really ought to be in an isolated situation. and he should be at the hospital, very frankly. but in the white -- in the white house, there is an office upstairs where he can isolate himself. i'm not sure i understand why they want to move him to a downstairs office in the white house. that would only expose more people to the possibility of a

virus. the west wing is, as you've said, very close quarters. staff has very small offices. the hallways are very tight. and as we know, right now, the white house is a center for coronavirus. it's a hot spot. and -- and -- and almost 20 members of the staff, already, have gotten coronavirus. it is a dangerous situation. >> dr. gounder, we don't even know, i mean, would the white house have been, like, deep cleaned? i mean, you know, in -- in offices, when somebody has tested positive in a working environment, in -- in a company that has resources, they do extensive cleaning to make sure, you know, every surface has been cleaned. the air, you know, goes through filters. is that something that should happen to the white house? even contact tracing. we don't even know if they're really doing that. >> well, and honestly, i think the contact-tracing question is even more crucial. yes, you typically will do some

sort of deep cleaning. but as we have learned over time, surfaces contribute to transmission much less than droplets, as well as aerosol transmission through the air. but i would be very concerned about contact tracing, about ongoing testing. are people in the white house being honest about the fact that they've been diagnosed? that they are carrying coronavirus? we've heard about a senior aide being instructed by the president not to reveal that. this is the very basics of contact tracing. you need to know who has it. you need to identify who they have been in contact with, test them, isolate everybody who has it. quarantine everybody who's been exposed. and it really doesn't seem like those very basic, public health measures are being implemented right now. >> secretary panetta, mark meadows is in your former role as chief of staff. he -- he's -- according to "the new york times" and the ap, he gave, as an anonymous way to a reporter to the pool, far more negative information about the president's condition than his own doctor was willing to give.

i mean, do -- is it -- do you understand why he would do that, like right after the doctor gives a rosy assessment that he would, on background, you know, go off the record with reporters? he happened to do it on camera, and so it was clear it was him. according to "the times" and the ap. >> well, i'd like to think it was to his credit because he was concerned about the president's real condition. and when you heard the briefings and they didn't present a very full picture about just exactly what was happening with the president, he decided to brief the press, himself. so, i -- i'd like to believe it was an instance where his own conscience said i've got to tell the american people the truth. and that, frankly, is what should have been happening this whole period. >> although, i will say, he went back on record once he was revealed by "the times" and the ap, he went back on record with a much rosier assessment.

so, leon panetta, we appreciate you being with us. dr. gounder, as well. programming note. with only weeks until the election trkit's time for mike pence and kamala harris to face off. airs wednesday night on cnn with special coverage starting at 7:00 eastern. as we reported at the very top of the program, coronavirus death toll has now passed 210,000 people in this country. coming up. i'll talk with a woman whose husband, jonathan, died because of the pandemic. we've talked to her before. we spoke earlier this year, and i want to talk with her again, especially after president trump's statement that covid is nothing to be afraid of and don't let it dominate your life. that's next.

co-el hoe i searched and found sofi and applied for a personal loan.

i paid off my credit cards and felt a weight come off my shoulders. thank you sofi for a great experience and for helping me get my money right. ♪

traffic and air pollution will be even worse after the pandemic. that's why we support measure rr to keep caltrain running. which is at risk of shutdown because of the crisis. to keep millions of cars off our roads, to reduce air pollution and fight climate change. and measure rr helps essential workers like me get to work and keep our communities healthy. relieve traffic. reduce pollution. rescue caltrain. [all] yes on measure rr. taking california for a ride. companies like uber, lyft, doordash.

breaking state employment laws for years. now these multi-billion-dollar companies wrote deceptive prop 22 to buy themselves a new law. to deny drivers the rights they deserve. no sick leave. no workers' comp. no unemployment benefits. vote no on the deceptive uber, lyft, doordash prop 22. one ride california doesn't want to take. with the total coronavirus death tolls topping 210,000 people in this country and the total cases approaching 7.5 million in this country as we've reported, president trump took off his mask and walked into the white house tonight without a mask on. and as we referenced at the top of the program before he left the hospital, he tweeted to his followers, it wasn't actually all that bad. leaving the walter reed medical

center at 6:30 p.m., he wrote, feeling really good. don't be afraid of covid. don't let it dominate your life. wee have developed some really great drugs and knowledgement i feel better than i did 20 years ago. he's jacked up on steroids and a lot of other experimental treatments that most people will never have access to. the president sent out on a video on his twitter account to reinforce this message after he returned to the white house. we're not going to air it on this program. it is pure propaganda, and it's dangerous. the combination of videos and social media messaging makes it all the more remarkable because of the untold lives affected and untold heartache the pandemic has caused across this nation. among those in this nation, i want you to meet katie coelho. her husband jonathan died of covid-19 back in april. he managed to send her an emotional good-bye note on his cell phone. earlier this year i talked to katie about her loss, about the impact coronavirus had on her and her family. now with the president's tweet and his stage managed return to

the white house, katie joins me again. thank you so much for being with us. before we get into this whole mishegoss with the president, how are you doing? how are your kids? >> my kids are fantastic. they're so funny and resilient. my daughter is the crazy side of my husband, and my son is very much the sweet, loving side. they're great. i take it minute by minute. it's been a lot harder lately. this definitely doesn't help any of us grieve. but, you know, i've got two remarkable kids, and that's really what keeps me going. >> yeah. well, as you said, i remember when you and i first talked, which was shortly after jonathan died. i remember you saying -- i don't want to misquote you, but i think it was "we make good kids". >> yeah, we make good babies. >> that's what it was. >> we definitely -- you know, i'm maybe a little biased, but they're pretty much perfect. >> yeah. >> they keep me on my toes, but they're awesome.

>> i'm an outsider, and they seem pretty perfect to me. >> thank you. >> what is it like to -- i mean your life has been -- you know, your old life has in some ways been destroyed. you're in this new life and finding your way in the darkness of that. to be doing that at the same time that you have the president saying these things about don't be afraid of covid, you know, and not wearing a mask, going back -- i mean i don't want to get political and, you know, i don't want to push you to say anything, but just what is it like as a mom going through what you're going through to have all this stuff swirling around? >> no, and i've really tried to not look at this as a political thing. i've always tried to look at this as a human being thing. the covid in general being such a hot topic and being something that everyone feels that they can have an opinion about or

that they can just voice the downplaying of it, it definitely makes things harder. but when it came out that president trump had tested positive, i automatically thought, this is going to be really bad for all of the victims' families because his inability to be empathetic or to feel anything for anyone else has really just always been prevalent. but i knew if he got covid, that he was definitely going to downplay it even more so than he has been, and he was going to allow the gates to open where people can continue to lash out at us and continue to say horrible things to us. and the video that he just tweeted and the things that he's been saying are just disrespectful. i mean we deserve better. my husband deserved better.

210,000 people deserved better. >> and you've had people say horrible things to you? >> oh, absolutely disgusting things. i -- i am surprised if i go at least a week without somebody saying something horrible. i've been called very -- i've been called almost every swear word in the book, saying that i'm part of the propaganda and i'm left-wing and i'm this and i'm that. and my feeling is if that's what people want to say about me, then at least i'm challenging them and i'm giving a face and a voice to people like my husband, who deserved to have a voice and to be here. and it doesn't take much. for president trump to sit there and say that he's a leader and he's leading us through covid, what does he have to lose by showing sympathy? what does he have to lose by saying, i'm sorry this happened to your kids' dad and your husband?

what does he have to lose? he doesn't have anything, and he is just pushing through, and nobody is looking at him thinking that he is strong and brave. he's weak because my husband fought covid. my husband wanted to come home, and he deserved it. and this man is using this as a political propaganda to divide the nation when we're already so broken. it's -- there's nothing good that comes out of what he's saying. he could have done so much good with coming out and saying, covid is scary, and i'm sorry to all of these families, but we're going to get through this as a nation and as a country. and he -- he chose not to. and, again, it opens the door that people just feel that they can attack us, and it's awful. >> yeah. it was an opportunity for him to say, you know what? wear a mask. i didn't push it enough before, but now let's do this.

we're all in this together. it's the patriotic thing to do. katie coelho, i'm -- i'm so impressed by your strength, and i appreciate you talking with us tonight. >> thank you. thank you for talking about jonathan. it's awesome. we appreciate it. >> i love talking with you about him every time. so katie, thank you so much. >> thank you. thank you. >> the news continues right now. i want to hand it over to chris for "cuomo prime time." chris. >> and that is the reality. and that is what matters. you don't matter. i don't matter. the insiders don't matter. the lawmakers don't matter. that is what and who matters, my brother. that is who is hearing the message. that is who needs to be respected. that's what's being forgotten in all this. he lies, he doesn't lie. the timeline makes sense. it doesn't make sense. he was getting tested. he's not getting tested. they're all b.s. that's us. that's our frame of reference. and then you have people like her, and you have families like her all