the evidence about 210,000 deaths, job loss, deficits that are sky high, and you'll see her do that and do it well. >> senator tim kaine. thank you. >> absolutely. >> that's it for us, the news continues. want to hand it over to chris for "cuomo primetime." >> ander zonk thank you. the white house cluster keeps claiming victims as more key members of our government go down and trump insists covid, no big deal. no big deal that now all but one member of the joint chiefs of staff are quarantining after exposure, that stephen miller tested positive, mastermind of trump's divisive policies. also a fourth press aide just tested positive. over two dozen have fallen to covid so far and gotten sick. and more are likely given the continued unmasked madness in that place.

the cases there are coming faster than anything we've seen come over this white house. the problem is, trump's reckl s recklessness has him closing key players just as the country needs him and his team most. instead of making it better for people, he seems intent on making it worse. ripping off his mask and letting his covid breath rip roar around the white house. does it make him look like a patriot in chief to ignore the only thing we have keeping us safe from a pandemic? he said he wanted to get back to work, so he gets out of the hospital but abandons negotiations on economic relief for millions al after the election. people are living week to week. millions are struggling to get by during the pandemic and he's still choosing just to risk it all. so why would he think a dangerous stunt like ripping off

his mask and, you know, doing this, would be the right message? shameful, but true. ripping that mask off was less dramatic than how he's ripping the scab off so many families' economic wounds. the economy is tanking. they need relief. shame on the republicans, shame on the democrats and shame on this president. most of those working are going to pay more in taxes to the federal government than our self-proclaimed billionaire potus, saving all that money, only paying $750 a year in the taxes. when he was asked about it in the debate -- i paid millions. what about those two years. i paid millions. >> no you didn't. he tells you he's the best dealmaker. where's the deal? despite being fresh from the

hospital, fresh from being treated he continues to say the flu is worse than covid. that's not true. there is now a warning on twitter about trump's disinformation again today. our president is lying to you about a pandemic. don't let it dominate. tell that to the people hooked up to ventilator right now fighting for their lives. the widow of a 41-year-old broadway star ill canned killed to tell you tonight. she wants to speak for all those victims and afflicted families who heard the president dismiss their pain. then we have another round of thunder dome tomorrow. another debate after that last debacle. it was literally and figuratively sickening. the place they're holding it, utah, 716 cases reported today. it's on the rise.

that's where the vp debate is going to be. mike pence, the head of the coronavirus task force insisted on making it less safe saying no plexiglas barrier. why? is this a cage match? they said they're not going allow that. at what point do they stop taking unnecessary risks? is pence going take the test, or is it going to be like trump? showed up too late. where are the results? how hard are they to come up with? do you think they'll tell you the truth? let's talk about the state of play. let's bring in dr. ashish jha and van jones. thank you both for joining us tonight. i'll take silence as accepted. dr. jha, the idea of saying, listen, i beat it. you can beat it. doesn't affect anybody. it's just like the flu.

you can be just like me. don't let it dominate you. public policy impact? >> where to begin, chris. look, this is not the flu. it's not the flu. we have known that really since march. it's killed 210,000 fellow americans and to keep it rating that is so deeply disappointing. i don't know why -- i really hoped somehow the president going through this would be an awakening. he would realize how serious this is and he would come back from it, warning the american people to be more careful and instead he's telling the american people to ignore it and act like it isn't there. and of course that's only going lead to more suffering and death if people listen to it. >> and the debate, is there a chance, doc, that this could be another bad situation where, you know, we saw from the last debate, people got sick? we saw the president's family refusing masks. how big is the risk here? or can it be managed?

>> yeah, so, look, what we know now is that the president was probably infectious during that debate, and it is unacceptable that people show up to these things and don't follow the rules. there's a reason we have a set oaf rules. there's a reason the cleveland clinic set up the rules they have. it's how we protect everybody. you don't get to flout it because you're the president or first family. i don't think they have any credibility for setting rules. they have been a public health disaster. i think we should let the cleveland clinic set the rules for what is safe or the biden campaign should not show up if they're not going to have a safe debating environment. >> one of the big points is so many families are struggling and now you have compromise based on schooling. van, the president said, hey you don't have to tell me. i want to make a deal. it's pelosi. she's crazy. she just wanted to help the big

city bus not the workers. do you think you get to stink for no deal? >> first of all, the idea the president of the united states in the middle of this pandemic where you have people literally in lines for food -- food lines. people in cars for two, three hours just trying to get a little small box of food to take to their children, that he would just tweet out that i'm just not going to talk about anybody about this until after you elect me, that is literally insane. it's politically insane, because you had people hoping something would get done. he's now owning the failure. he's saying, i am going cause the thing to fail. but it's also incredibly cruel, because apparently what he's saying is, if you don't re-elect me, i'm not going to do anything in october, november, december, or january until somebody else is in here, so you're imposing four years of pain on the people. it's literally insane. people are starting -- there's

no rational explanation for what you're seeing out of this white house at this point. none at all. >> well, what about the democrats won't make a deal? >> well, the democrats have been moving forward. mnuchin and pelosi were getting closer to a deal. if pelosi doesn't do what she said you're going punish the country for four months? that's insane. the two sides have been far apart, but they were moving closer together. there's at least the spirit you can get something done. mnuchin was caught as offguard as anybody else. to pull the rug out from all the republicans, including mnuchin himself is insane. something is desperately wrong in that white house right now. >> ashish, what do you think of the idea of the president going back to rallies and open events, which is almost undoubtedly how he got sick in the first place? >> hard to know where he got infected but the cdc guidelines on this are clear. ten days after onset of symptoms

up to ten days, he is contagious. he should be going nowhere. he should not be taking joyrides, doing the kinds of things he's doing. that ten days puts him at the end of the weekend. after that, he can get out. he has not been careful and he has not followed guidelines. he's got start doing that to protect people around him and to protect himself. people can get reinfected. we're going to hope that doesn't happen and obviously there are plenty of people who have not got infected. fewer and fewer people around him not infected but there will still people around him not infected. >> two quick things -- ashish, do you think the messaging war is over? too many people heard from him, masks don't matter and they become a political statement? we're going to have a hard time until the virus just goes through enough bodies? >> no. so, look, 800 americans are dying every day. we can't give up on this messaging war. we have three or four tools --

testing, isolation, distancing, mask wearing. i'm going keep saying it until i'm blue in the face every single day. we've got to keep saying it because it's going save lives. >> van, the word out of the campaign is, we need to debate. pence is going to show things about kamala harris that will really expose her as a weakness for biden, and she is literally a heart beat away if they get in and it has to happen. they need it in the campaign. and pence is a radio host, former guy, great debater and he'll show that team at its best. >> uh. bring your popcorn. kamala harris is no joke. i don't know who they're talking about. i don't know who they think they're going to be able to roll over, run over. you're going to be dealing with a seasoned prosecutor, one of the toughest people in all of american politics. bring your popcorn, soda pop and

watch mike pence get taken to the woodshed. >> i sat next to you in two debates with where you spit chicken or pizza at me after kamala harris said something. we'll be watching. wish it weren't happening. thank you both. be healthy, be well, and thank you. >> thank you. you want to beat covid, you got to be strong like trump and everything's going to be okay, right? wrong. you can be really strong. you can be strong as i am, you can be twice as strong, and you still die. 210,000 people can't speak for themselves anymore. they weren't weak. a lot of them were old, but not all of them. just because you're old doesn't mean you have to die. there are loved ones like the broadway star of nick cordero, she can speak. >> it dominated his life, it dominated my life, it dominated my family's lives. have some empathy.

why are you bragging? have empathy to the americans that you are our leader. have empathy to the people who are suffering and grieving. >> we got to forget about the politics and remember that this is about people. that's what the pandemic is affecting. it's not about left and rit. it's about everybody else. amanda is with us. she lost her husband, who was such a rising star, strong and brave, and she has a message for families like hers and she wants you to hear it, next. >> announcer: "cuomo primetime" brought to you by bath fitter. visit bathfitter.com today. with a lifetime warranty. go from old to new. from worn to wow. the beautiful bath you've always wanted, done right, installed by one expert technician, all in one day. we've been creating moments like these for 35 years,

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come on, no no n-n-n-no-no only discover has no annual fee on any card. more than 210,000 families in america are heartbroken because a loved one died of covid-19. every day that number ticks higher as do the millions of sick and struggling.

but still, the president says don't let it dominate you. don't be afraid, as if it is something sick people can control. as if we all get 24-hour care in a hospital. it's just the flu. no big deal. those words hurt. they're not just wrong. they're raw. so many who were sick and struggling and scared and coping with life-changing loss -- amanda kloots joins this new family, changed by covid. you know her, her husband, nick co cordero. they got a little boy with one of the best names ever, elvis. 94 days she watched as her husband fought like almost no other. he was somebody to her, his kid, his family, his fans. 41, prime of life, strong,

talented, sweet. he fought. he didn't let covid dominate. he had no choice. amanda kloots joins me now. thank you very much for taking the opportunity,er at this time. first things first, the legacy, how's elvis? >> he's a perfectly happy healthy little boy. i thank god for him every day. >> man, and you should. you know what? there will be a legacy for him to attach and understand of his father and i'm happy for this to be a part of it. you're hope, you're dealing with enough, and you hear the president's nonchalance, takes the mask off -- no big deal. i don't know what the big -- it's just like the flu. don't let it dominate you. don't be afraid. you can get through just like i did. how did those words hit you? >> chris, honestly it stopped me

in my tracks. i was sitting here, finishing dinner, and i saw the tweet first. and then i turned on the news and saw him speak live, and it broke my heart. it was like a gut punch bringing back all of the -- everything we went through. >> what do you think he doesn't understand? >> um -- sorry. the flippant comments -- don't be afraid? you know, we were afraid every single day. we were afraid for our lives. we were afraid for nick's life. and then, you know, you're afraid for the world. to tell somebody to not be

afraid of this disease that took a life, that took over 200,000 lives, took over 1 million lives, gosh, it just -- you know, it -- like a dagger in the heart. >> we were talking a little bit about your husband struggling. you said, you know, nick had great care. this isn't about him going without. he had everything he could, but that's the point, is it doesn't matter that you're a big beautiful broadway star with lungs the size of barrels and flexibility and strength for days and you're only 41. it can be anybody, anywhere, and then the whole family is affected. and to this president, it's something that he doesn't even really want to have measured. he doesn't even want us to know the numbers. what have you learned about how big the community is that you've become a part of through this misfortune? >> it's incredible. i mean, you know, the amount of

help and love and kindness and support that my family received that nick's family received from our community here in california to all of the people that have been following the story, it's just been incredible. and i truly couldn't have got through it without it, for sure. >> so now here's the problem -- we're still in it. >> yeah. >> you know, nick was a cautionary tale for people. i remember it rocked people. not just because of his stardom, because he's a somebody, but because of what he was. i mean, 41, a big gorgeous, strong, healthy person -- you're not supposed to struggle. 5 days, an epic fight, but it shook people and made them realize how random this thing can be. and i hear from people like you

all the time that the fact that this isn't at the top of the agenda of doing everything that can be done to get people in masks and socially distanced and tested, the fact that everything isn't being thrown at it is an insult. do you feel that? >> absolutely. i think that, you know, what he wrote in that tweet was such an insult, especially his words about, you know, don't let it dominate you. en you know, it not only has dominated the lives of the people we lost, it's dominated the families of those people. it dominated and it still does the hospital, the health heroes that were working every day to save my husband, the doctors and nurses. it dominated people who have lost their jobs and small businesses that have been closed and will not re-open. people don't have incomes.

they don't have anything right now. and it's dominated everything. so his comments that he wrote not only are so insulting to everyone who lost a loved one and is in the grieving position that i'm in at the moment, but it is even larger than that. it's insulting. he owes the world, he owes america an apology for what he said. that's how insulting it was. >> you're not going get one. the question is, why? do you think it's that he doesn't agree, or do you think his calculation is, this pandemic is bad for him, and he needs to put the message out that it's not a big deal and it doesn't really affect anybody and we're testing more than anybody. and look, he's fine, it's going to go away. >> i think he had a chance yesterday to come out and be a true leader, and a chance to

show empathy to his country, to the people that have suffered, and, you know, he had a chance since having covid to even try to use the two days that he suffered in the hospital to relate to us, to relate to the world, to relate to the united states of america, and he didn't. and instead -- instead of showing empathy and heart he showed his bragging nature and how well he's doing and how great he's feeling after 20 years. he's never felt better. you know, i wish i could say that to my husband. even if nick would have survived, the complications that covid had on his body, he would have dealt with for the rest of his life, we would have dealt

with for the rest of his life. and, you know, it's just sad to me that he had a chance yesterday to really, after being diagnosed with covid and being in the hospital, he had a chance to be a human, and not political, not republican/democrat -- a human, a human being, that has been a part of this pandemic, and he chose to go the other way, and it was very upsetting and really horrible. and sad. >> you got a lot on your plate. you are not a politician. >> no. >> this is not an agenda driver for you. >> no. >> and i really appreciate you just coming out to speak to the pain, because you know a lot of people share your pain. and you want to speak for them. and let this president know and the others in leadership, people are hurting and they need help. and what is said matters. not as much as what's done, but

it matters. so i thank you for putting a fresh cut in our own wound so that other people can understand what's happening. and i'm very sorry to meet you under these conditions, but you know what? you're putting purpose to your pain, and there's a blessing in that, so thank you. >> thank you, chris. >> for giving me and the audience a chance to understand what is real. forget about left and right, just real. amanda kloots and elvis, we're just a call away. >> thank you. good luck. >> we'll be right back. t up to 60% off amazing hotels. and when you get a big deal... ...you feel like a big deal. ♪ priceline. every trip is a big deal. ♪ with this seal, this restaurant is committing to higher levels of cleanliness. ♪ ♪

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something really important about the vaccine -- you may remember last night there was a headline that the fda is being told, hey, don't put in anymore barriers to the vaccine coming out, because the fda had

suggested, hey, we may not be right-hand by the election. we have to make sure this is safe first. remember, the white house said, there will be no politics? new fda rules make it more difficult for them to speed up vaccines for approval before election day. just another political hit job. i thought, mr. president, there would be no politics played with the fda? i thought you had all your people say, no, no, no this is about the science, the medicine, the experts. how can it be a political hit job from your own guy? the guy at the head of the fda you just put in there months ago. this is on you. and it is about the truth and it is about safety that's what should dominate you. truth. and here is another dose of medicinal truth. you said kids had to go back to school. you said it is a must. i and so many others said, you're right. tell us how. help. you did nothing.

schools are not open in enough places. the hybrid, the at-home, it's a mess. ask any parents. the teachers are doing their damneddest. schools are too. it's broken. the president has been pressed here and elsewhere to do something about it. after months of saying, kid haves to get back, and doing nothing, how he says he has the answer. listen. >> we're announcing our plan to distribute 150 million abbott rapid point of care tests. >> he's reading that because he doesn't know what he's talking about, but it sounded good. even dr. fauci last night had to couch that number. >> the ultimately goal would be 150 million purchased and then i think there will be more after that. i'm going to be pushing for more. >> two problems. we haven't gotten any. they have been making this promise for months. then you have the math of it -- 150 million tests. holy cow.

do the math. there are more than 50 million kids in public schools alone. private, catholic, i know, we'll get to that, but the issues aren't is same. let's stick with the bulk in public. if you're testing those kids every other day, you get 150 million tests, they won't last you a week, and that's before we look at the private schools and parochial schools. you got 6 million kid there is as well. that's real. got to deal with it. you also have to teachers -- 3 million in the public schools. the faculty, the staff. their families count, too, right? they haven't been part of the discussion. why? so dr. fauci is pushing for more. that's good. but the basic problem is, what are you pushing for more? we haven't got any yet. it was back in march trump made

a show of the kinds of rapid tests we would have. he didn't do a damn thing about it until last month when they announced the 150 million tests. any day, any day, any day. the first batch, 6 preponderate 5 million were supposed to go out last week. can't find evidence of them in schools. blame shift. where are they? those sucky governors, they need figure out how to distribute them. i guess it's on them. it's only 6.5 million. and here's the big problem nobody's telling you. testing alone, that just counts cases. doesn't stop cases, right? they're not going to keep kids safe all by themselves. here's an example of the truth of this proposition. the white house, for months they told you they didn't need to spread out or wear masks because -- >> why won't you wear a mask? is it sort after a personal political statement? is it because the president would be disappoints in you if you don't? >> it's a personal decision.

i'm tested regularly. >> ha. how did that age? it's not a personal decision. your personal decision ends when it starts to affect my person. this white house bent their lives on rapid testing as a panacea and that mask worse a weakness. they weren't even using the tests correctly. we were told the white house was testing everyone who got near the president and the president. where are his negative tests from a week before thursday? silence. but look at this. even worse, the fda's emergency authorization for the tests, called abbott i.d. now, said it was designed to be used within the first seven days of symptoms. what does that mean? it's not built to test people who feel fine, known as asymptomatic. when you're asymptomatic, those tests miss as many as 1 in 3

cases. asymptomatic misses 1 in 3 cases. now the white house cluster starting to make a little bit more sense? the ones we're talking about for the schools are also made by abbott. different model called the bynax now, but is it a different quality? once again, according to the fda, they are also only authorized for use after you show symptoms. so this is your big answer? not enough tests that don't catch enough cases? look, off-label usage isn't necessarily a bad thing. we certainly need to be thinking outside the box. we got no tools in the box as it is. rapid tests are a critical piece for schools and it should have been done months ago, but you're still going to need masks and social distancing.

this doesn't fix the mess, and it's going to take a lot more than 150 million. those are the facts. we have to do better. we'll be right back. 20 years ago, i was an hourly associate cart pusher. the different positions i've had taught me how to be there for others. ♪ i started out as a cashier. i mean, the sky's the limit with walmart. it's all up to you. ♪ ♪

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all but one member of the joint chiefs of staff are now self-quarantining. puts the pentagon on some uncertain footing as the senate and the white house are also in uncertain territory. let's talk risk assessment with president trump's former national security adviser john bolton, author of "the room where it happened." ambassador, thank you for joining us. >> glad to be with you. >> what's your level of concern about the diminished white house as you have now about a dozen plus being affected by activities there? what does that do to the functioning day-to-day?

>> well, i think as the number of people and the level of the people are affected, even with advanced telecommunications it makes a big difference in the west wing when that many people are knocked out. i have to say, it am looks like it's going to continue to get worse. so, there should have been a much higher level of seriousness about this from the get go and unfortunately they're now going to pay the conventions and so are the rest of us. >> and the president being hospitalized, going back out, his team member going down -- is this just about day-to-day efficiency? we see a deal for the families seems to be gone in congress, but what about keeping us safe, national security issues? >> well, i think the president has mishandled the coronavirus pandemic from the get go, going back to january if not before. and i think now obviously we're caught literally one month from

the election, and that's the only thing on the president's mind. so i do think we are more vulnerable now to interference from our adversaries abroad than i would have expected. i would have thought they would be nor cautious even in an election period, but this disarray in the white house, i've never seen anything like it. i don't think there's a parallel historically even going back to the spanish flu in 1918. as i say, i think the odds are it's only going to get worse. >> the white house is actually a case cluster. i don't know how you could get a more negative metaphor for your effectiveness at dealing with it. now we hear a bunch of joint chiefs are quarantining because of exposure. but isn't our military apparatus at the top level just a huge network of personnel? does it matter they're in quarantine? it's suboptimal, but does that

make us unsafe? >> no, i don't think so, these are people trained and planned to literally make their decisions under fire, which could include biological weapons. it's inconvenient, but i think the worst part of the joint chiefs putting themselves in quarantine was how seriously they are taking it. this is the responsible way to act. and if the white house had done this -- and we know from any number of reports for months and months it was considered bad form to wear a mask. if the white house had taken it as seriously as the pentagon, i don't think we would be in this disarray. >> it still is. he just ripped off his mask in defiance and saying something that's demonstrably false that covid is no worse than the flu. here's something i'd love your take on -- if an outside force

expose our vice president and president and other key players to a virus, we would be at the brink of war. yet here, it is the president's own recklessness that achieved the same thing. how do you make sense of that? >> well, there is no way to make sense of it, other than it's the president's obsession with his own image and what he wants to project. and this feeling that if he acts the way he wants to world to be, the world will be that way. it's a form op mind control, is the only way i can put it. unfortunately, the coronavirus didn't get the memo, and the president's recklessness -- and there's example of it after example of it including that joyride at walter reed over the weekend -- now is putting a lot of his staffers at risk. more importantly it sends a signal to people all over the country that somehow this is not serious. and you know, it contradicts

what trump himself has said. he can't keep on a straight line here, and i think the pressure of being four weeks away from the election is now showing very clearly. >> of the some point, if we don't get pandemic under control, if there isn't a more aggressive move by the federal government on testing at what point does it become a threat to national security that we are just being too vulnerable for too long? >> well, i think we have been vulnerable for too long already. i think if we had acted early and dispositively, this would look a lot different than it does now. i personally think the real answer is the vaccine, and i think in that sense, the federal government has tried to move quickly and safely at the same time. i think when we get the vaccine, this changes dramatically. the white house itself, the experience there shows testing is not enough. they were testing all the time. it didn't stop the virus.

>> maybe they were testing. >> well, they say they were. >> we ask for the president's test results from last week. no idea where they are. it would be pretty easy to produce if they have them. ambassador boll to the, thank you so much. author of "the room where it happened." all right, we'll be right back. i'll be eating chicken tikka masala with garlic naan. [doorbell chimes] cheers. i win again, patrick. that's siiir patrick. oooooow. sir. we'll look back and remember the moment that things, for one strange time in our lives, got very quiet. some lost work and invented new ways to get by. others were busier than ever, and found strength they never knew they had. we sheltered with the people who matter most,

sometimes finding how far apart we'd drifted. we worried over loved ones, over money, over our planet. and over take-out. and we found a voice one the noise out there had kept quiet. when the world starts spinning again, let's remember this time where none of us felt secure, and fight for a future where everyone can. because when the world seems like it's standing still... that's the perfect time for us to change it. who've got their eczema under control. with less eczema, you can show more skin. so roll up those sleeves. and help heal your skin from within with dupixent.

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so, what about joe biden? fair question. look, can't ignore the president pushing us deeper into a pandemic as he walks infected through a white house case cluster, but biden is making a pandemic push of his own, and it is worth your getting a sense of the very different message he is putting out from captain contagious in chief. >> reporter: joe biden, near the site of one of the civil war's bloodiest battles, pressing his case for unity for today's divided nation. >> we must seek not to have our fists clenched by arms open.

we have to seek not to tear each other apart, but seek to come together. >> reporter: biden traveling to gettysburg, pennsylvania, invoking the word of president abraham lincoln. >> today once again we are a house divided. but that, my friends, can no longer be. >> reporter: the former vice president with a push for bipartisanship and overcoming racial divisions. and issuing a call to action. >> we must vote. we will vote. no matter how many obstacles are thrown in our way, because once america votes, america will be heard. >> reporter: with the coronavirus crisis still raging across the country, biden saying leaders should follow the science. >> wearing a mask is not a political statement. it's a scientific recommendation. we can't undo what has been done. we can't go back. we can do so much better. >> reporter: biden's trip took him to the critical battleground state of pennsylvania, while

president trump is sidelined from the campaign trail with coronavirus. but just four weeks until election day, a new cnn election poll shows biden with his widest lead yet over the president nationwide. the democratic nominee ahead of trump with likely voters by 16 points. biden's advantage fueled by support from older voters, a group trump won by 7 points in 2017, but now backing biden by 21 points. and the former vice president seeing an even bigger advantage among women work two-thirds of female voters favoring biden over trump. today, one of the democratic party's most revere woman taking aim at the current president. >> they're spoking fears about black and brown americans, lying about how minorities will destroy the suburbs. what the president is doing is once again patently false, morally wrong, and yes, it is racist. >> reporter: in a 24-minute

video, michelle obama making her closing argument for the election with her own pitch for unity. >> let's be very real -- america is divided right now, and a lot of people are being sold lies from those who want to get rich or stay in power and sometimes both. as i said before, we must all empathize with those who might not look like us or vote with us. >> reporter: the former first lady urging undecided voters to vote their conscious. >> we cannot longer pretend that we don't know exactly who and what the president stands for. search your hearts. and your conscious. and then vote for joe biden like your lives depend on it. >> reporter: joe biden didn't mention president trump by name once in that speech in gettysburg, but sohortly after e was quick to criticize the president for canceling those

stimulus negotiations. biden argued the president turned his back on the very americans who need that relief. biden adding, worse yet, he never even really tried to get a deal for these americans. chris? >> arlette saenz. thank you very much. let's bring in two great minds in the state of play four weeks out from the election. the wizard of odds, harry entin and harry bump. come on the show more and i'll give you a nickname, too. let's look at the numbers. four weeks away from election day. 57% of likely voters biden. 41%, trump. now, let's look at this numerically and then analytically. harry, the numbers, you point to two key demographic groups that show a shift in this race from 2016. lay it out. >> yeah, it's too simple groups, right? it's voters 65 and older and it's white women. and if you look at those groups, trump won both of those groups back in 2016 in the final polls

and right now, what do we see in we see that in fact among women overall, biden has this huge advantage and among white women specifically what you see is that joe biden -- last time around, donald trump won that group. now you see joe biden up with that group by 12 points in average polls and senior citizens trump won it last time and biden is ahead with that group. two massive shifts. >> those are the numbers. philip you take it on. people say i've heard this before. clinton was up 15. why is this any different? your answer? >> if this poll result holds and other polls match, this things a the blowout. so it's worth taking things with a grain of salt. in 2016, yes, hillary clinton won the national popular vote, lost in swing states. but her lead went up and down, up and down over the course of the entire year. biden's has been rock steady.

for example, there's no point in the last 150 days of the campaign where biden and trump were tied where as in each of the previous of elections there were days when they were tied. biden's low point in the polling average has never been less than five points above donald trump's high point. the two are different. they're spaced apart, and that's the sort of thing you want the see if you're joe biden's campaign. that means people are locked in to where they are voting. >> in the last race we did see the president moving in the last four weeks. what was that about then, and could that happen now? >> no, i don't think -- sure, it could happen now, but there were a lot more undecided voters, a lot more third party voters than going ton right now. trump just need to win the undecides, he has to take voters away from joe biden in order to do so. very different than four years ago. last thing i'll note is biden has been winning not just the

last 150 days. he has been leading the last three years. he's just had a continuous lead. that's unlike what we saw in 2016. >> philip, you take an interesting look at this demographic. other than pissing off older people by painting joe's age as a function of him being one step from the grave and another footen a banana peel the president constantly in his campaign, radical left, buyen's going to be coopted, culture war. why would 65 and older be resonating bet werter with bide than trump? >> it's an interesting question. i'm not sure we know. both sides are locked in, there aren't a lot of swing voters moving back and forth. it will be fascinating. the key demo i like to look at here is the voters who dislike both candidates. voters who dislike both

candidates in 2016 went for trump. now consistently they're backing biden by 20-plus points which shows president trump is not getting the benefit of the doubt from people like four years ago. >> well, he is the president so he has a record attached to him, even they ough he seems to be making it more biden's fault than his own. i don't know how that works. looking at the election map, even if this stinks and it's a tight race, you say the electoral map tells a story that's good for biden at this point. >> yeah, look, joe biden is ahead in more than enough states to get 270 electoral votes. you point out the polls were wrong last time around, but given the policy right now, joe biden could still be over 270 electoral votes. even if the polls are off, joe biden is clearly ahead. >> i don't trust it, bump. it just doesn't feel like that in the country.

every time the president goes out, he packs the house, even though he's making people sick. the flags are all over the place. the intensity online. i don't know. what am i missing? president trump has done a good job of building the sense that he has a base. the real test is if you look at what we're starting to see, people lining up for early voting, lining up in big cities, people are egoto have go out and vote -- that's the sort of thing we'll watch over time and so far, indicating it's a big turnout election. >> got to watch. you don't have to be a pro to know the last four weeks will matter the most. great to see you both. looking well. god bless. that's all for us. best part, cnn tonight with d. lemon. >> there are a couple things that are different. >> do tell. >> joe biden is not hillary clinton. people -- you know, this isn't e