mom was her best friend, her right hand, and her world. may they rest in peace. and may their memories be a blessing. i'm wolf blitzer. thank you very much for watching. i'll be back in one hour. cnn special coverage of the vice presidential debate starts right now. ♪ we are awaiting the start of the first and only vice presidential debate of 2020, as a nation in crisis faces more uncertainty, given president trump's covid-19 infection and the growing outbreak in the white house. it is debate night in america, and this is a special edition of "outfront." i'm erin burnett. concerns about president trump's health are raising the stakes. at the universityrsity of utah salt lake city. it's going to be a high pressure

debate. both vice president mike pence and senator kamala harris have to prove they have what it takes to fill that top job for the next four years, as running mates to the two oldest presidential nominees in american history. it's a stunning thing to think about this, how crucial this is. we expect the coronavirus and the trump administration's handling of it to be front and center during the face-off. it will be a 90-minute debate. the pandemic's impact obvious on the stage, as you see there. two plexiglass barriers have been put up to separate the candidates. the vice president's team challenged and even mocked those barriers before finally agreeing to them. all while more members of the trump/pence administration have been testing positive for covid-19. and i want to bring in anderson, who will be with me this hour. the debate commission has changed, enhanced the safety protocols since the president bill ill. now we know he was possibly infected with his debate with

joe biden. >> there will be more distance between the nominees. senator harris will be on the left, she will be 12 feet away from vice president pence. he will be seated at a desk to the right with those plexiglass barriers between them. the modmoderator will be 12 fee away, as well. everyone in the debate hall must test negative -- or must test negative for coronavirus. the commission is promising to remove anyone in the audience who refuses to wear a mask, as members oh of the trump family did last week. as for the debate itself, it will be broken into nine ten-minute segments. the first question of the night will go to vice president pence based on a coin toss. we're covering it all tonight. sara sidner will be watching the debate. david chalian will be watching who won after based on a cnn

poll. >> ryan nobles is first, so ryan, take us inside what you know about vice president pence's strategy tonight. >> reporter: well, erin, no doubt a week ago we saw a very combative and often -- a debate that was filled with personal attacks between president trump and vice president biden. aides to mike pence say the situation tonight is going to be a lot different. mike pence's debate style is much different than president trump. he has a lot of experience on the debate stage. he's known to be methodical and in control, and also very good at keeping on message. and frankly, his aides say he will do it in a much more polite tone than president trump did more than a week ago. now, that's not to be said that mike pence won't take the opportunities to draw very specific and stark distinctions with kamala harris. he will take those opportunities when given the chance. the big difference between me and president trump is that his aides say when he does so, he will do it with a smile. erin? >> a totally different style.

i want to go to kyung lah. obviously, senator harris with a very different strategy as well. what are you hearing from her camp? >> reporter: well, expect covid-19 to be a key line of attack from the senator. both from the pandemic response to what is happening in the economy. as far as the pandemic response, she says, an aide says nothing is going to change tonight on the debate stage as to what happened because of the lives of vice president pence and president trump and they lied to the american people how dangerous covid-19 is from the start. that 211,000 americans have died because of the failures of the administration, and she will specifically point to the fact that the head of the coronavirus task force is mike pence. on the economy, expect harris to talk about the high unemployment numbers, and that the stimulus talks were specifically pulled back by the president.

so constantly, erin, you're going to hear the senator talk about the failures of the administration when it comes to the pandemic. >> all right. thank you very much. i want to get the latest now on what we know and what we don't know about the president's covid-19 infection and the covid that has been spreading throughout the entire white house. our chief white house correspondent jim acosta joins me now. the president tried to put a spin on his illness a short while ago, saying how amazing he's feeling. but you are hearing something different. tell me. >> reporter: that's right, erin. you're right, the white house just released a video of the president produced by west wing staffers as the president claims he's feeling just fine. but sources tell cnn the president has had some trouble breathing since his return from walter reed medical center. i talked to one trump adviser who said the president is having difficulty catching his breath at times, although this adviser cautions it does not appear to

be serious at this point. yet in this white house produced video you're seeing on the other side of the screen, the president claims he's been cured of the coronavirus, pointing to the experimental medications he's been on like the antibody cocktail. the president claims in the video he asked his doctors for the treatment and it was a blessing from god that he caught the coronavirus. and here's more of what he had to say. >> so we have these drugs, eli lily and the others that are so good. but they are, in my opinion, remember this, they're going to say that they're therapeutic. and i guess they are therapeutic. it's a cure. for me, i walked in, i didn't feel good. a short 24 hours later, i was feeling great, i went to get out of the hospital. that's what i want for everybody. i want everybody to be given the same treatment as your president, because i feel great. i feel like perfect.

so i think this was a blessing from god that i caught it. >> reporter: one thing we should note as some of the president's medications he's been on are not available to most americans. the white house claims this was recorded today. though during the video, president trump says he got back from the hospital a day ago, and the president did not appear in front of reporters today. so we cannot independently verify when that video was produced or exactly how he's doing. ky tell you from talking to my sources, there are people here who are worried about the president overdoing it. that he's just trying to do too much right now and wondering how that's going to affect his health. as you saw, he claims he's been cured. erin? >> jim, thank you very much. of course, he's on a very powerful steroid and may have not given us information on his lungs and lung damage, which is crucial for president and for somebody that would like to be president for a second term and the oldest president elected in american history.

mia, this debate tonight, to just think we were all sitting here a week and a day ago, and wow. talk about a seismic change in what has happened. you're now 14 and counting people infected in the white house. the president of the united states spent three days in the hospital with coronavirus, which his own administration thinks he had at that debate. and that is now front and center tonight. >> it will be front and center visually. the distance, they're going to be apart 12 feet or so, and this is what biden and harris wanted this debate and this election to be about, covid. it just so happens that most americans are dealing with this virus and the fear of this virus in major ways every single day of their lives. you'll see her bringing the case to pence, who is the head of this task force. i think if you're pence, you want to try to make the case that they're too liberal and they wouldn't know what they're doing in the white house. >> it's always been the covid election. now it's the covid october, and

it's blaring red. so it's so important, and i hook for kamala harris to take the case to the president through pence. yeah, pence runs the task force, but she's going to make the case against a president who said that he down played the virus, and then he ultimately gets the virus. so do so many other people -- >> which he says is a blessing. >> now he says it's a blessing. so competence, compassion. i think that she's got the ability to drill down on this and take it -- i think in her world, it's always to take the case against the president and the proximate person there is the vice president. >> in the big picture tonight, there aren't many opportunities left for a reset. you look at the data, and the data suggests this is getting away from the president. 16 points in a national survey from cnn. my home state of pennsylvania, monmouth survey says that what was a four-point race is now 12 to biden's advantage. there are just 27 days to go

until the final day of voting. so this is that rare opportunity that presents a chance. and i wonder how much pressure vice president pence is under from the president to go hard and heavy tonight in this debate, which i don't think is pence's inclination. >> and the way the president has been acting the past couple of days. he is on some very serious steroids. the number of tweets, the fast and furious, the sort of live reaction from this president that we're going to see, that's going to be part of the conversation in how this is received. >> he's been incredibly erratic. if you're pence, you have to be the stabilizer. we saw this last go around with biden having been the stabilizer after obama didn't have a great debate. so pence, who has this mid western, cool, easy sensibility manner about him is what you'll see tonight, compared to harris, who can be the prosecutor. that's why people like her, because she brings the fire. >> i expect her to do it in a

way much more fluid than joe biden. one of president trump's mistakes was not letting biden talk. i think that could have hurt him. you know, look, everybody -- not everybody knows who these two folks are. we still have the issue of who is undecided or who is going to be watching tonight. people want to see them mix it up on the issue of the president getting covid and what's happening in the white house for sure. people already know that pence is going to be different than trump, and he's going to make some excuses for him or try to ignore the kind of things that trump says and try to reframe it. but he's the vice president, and unlike most republicans, he doesn't stand up to president trump. so i don't think that people will say this is a different administration now. >> i think that the clock is interesting to keep an eye on tonight from this perspective. these are short segments. >> ten minutes each. >> you know that in senator harris' eyes, every one of these segments somehow revolves around covid. so the objective for her will be to work that in as often as she can possibly do. i think it's do the advantage of

the vice president that theoretically, there's only one segment specifically dedicated to covid. >> there's another piece here. remember, pence knows how to go on the offense, as well. one of the things he wants to remind viewers of, kamala harris represents the extreme wing of the democratic party. that's the argument they will make. she's going to be on the defensive about that, and there's a lot of voters who may not have made up their mind who think yeah, she's the future of the democratic party. we have a very old potential president. she has to answer for that. >> yeah. go ahead. >> i was going to say, to that point, either person, trump or pence, i'm sorry or biden, are going to be the oldest president ever elected. people are looking at this debate in a way they have never looked before. either one of these people could be president. >> and president trump is ill right now. so that -- i think that magnifies how important this is. typically, in some ways, vice

presidential debates are forgettable. but because these two are seen also as the future of their party, particularly if you're kamala harris, i think people will be looking at it. also the history tonight, kamala harris, african-american woman, asian-american woman, trying to be the vice president. people are going to be looking at that. >> you want to be delicate, but the president has covid-19. joe biden, on his first day, will be older than ronald reagan was on his last day in office. sobering. >> very sobering. david, what role does the plexiglass play and the mask wearing? there's a theater to this, as well as the safety part. katie miller, spokesperson for the vice president, mocked the barriers, even though she herself had covid and her husband just got covid. mocked it, but now it's there for most of them. >> it's idiotic to mock it. you had the president's family mocking america by not wearing a mask when the cleveland clinic,

who i think has some authority on these matters, said everybody has to wear a mask. it's common sense. are any of us -- we're going to go by the precautions, we're going to follow the precautions. i think it's a reminder of how completely historic and unprecedented it is that they have physical barriers at a time of a pandemic. there is no escaping that the central question of this campaign is, how did they do in response to the pandemic? >> i think if you're kamala harris and you're joe biden, you hope it's a reminder of the failures of this administration, if you look at all the data, the polling, 65% of americans disapprove of the way this administration has handled the coronavirus. >> if i'm mike pence, i don't want it there. it's a constant reminder. it would seem the ventlation would be more important. if i'm pence, i'm not happy it's there. >> but also, that's how they felt i think when amy coney barrett was unveiled at the white house. that's when everybody got sick,

because they had a private gathering, inside the white house with no masks, and then went outside where they had no mask and look what happened. >> thank you all. and much more ahead on this special edition of "outfront." up next, should vice president pence be taking part in tonight's debate? because he's had close proximity to multiple people with covid-19 right now. our medical expert also weigh in. online last night ♪ ♪ and a yoga mat, to stay zen ♪ ♪ now, i'm gonna just buy a bike for him ♪ ♪ rakuten! cash ♪ back on the stuff all in my home. ♪ ♪ i shop on rakuten. ♪ rakuten! ♪ you know limu,g after all these years ♪ i shop on rakuten. it's the ones that got away that haunt me the most.

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as we await the start of the vice presidential debate, some health experts are questioning whether vice president mike pence should be participating. he attended president trump's supreme court announcement 11 days ago, sitting in front. the ceremony seen as one possible coronavirus super spreader event. at least eight people who were there tested positive, including the president, the first lady who sat across from the vice president. senator like lee who sat behind him. the cdc recommends someone in close contact with someone with covid-19 quarantine for 14 case. close contact is being within six feet of someone for 15 minutes. as you can see, the vice president has attended multiple events since september 26, often without social distancing or masks. let's talk about this with dr. sanjay gupta and cnn medical analysis dr. jonathan reiner. pence's doctor says he does not

need to quarantine, even though he attended the event where he was surrounded by numerous individuals that tested positive. the head of the cdc said he consults with a doctor and thinks it's okay for him to attend. what do you make of it and does the plexiglass help at all? >> well, so the first question, you know, the cdc guidelines apply to everyone, right? regardless. and i know what dr. redfield is saying, but you just read the guidelines, those are the guidelines that exist for a reason. it does appear that vice president pence had close contact. as you said, within six feet for longer than 15 minutes to people who were covid positive. in this particular case, we can see the video and see the images that you were showing, anderson. i think the last line, that it doesn't matter what the testing shows, because we know that people can test negative one day and test positive the next day. the vice president, unfortunately, was in the middle

oh of a super spreader event. i think for anybody else who said i was surrounded by people with covid for longer than 15 minutes, they were close to me, that would be concerning. you know, from a pure medical standpoint, it's very concerning that he's not quarantined. i don't know if they're considering him an essential worker, and therefore he doesn't need to be quarantined. but this that case, he needs to be wearing a mask all the time in public. so it is concerning. and anderson, just regarding the plexiglass, i think the confusion about this, that may be good for respiratory drop let sort of protection, which is good. but as we know, and now the cdc has on their website, took it down. now they have it back up. is that there is a concern about this virus spreading via aerosols. and if you just want to visualize it, think of it like smoke. smoke that can kind of linger in the air and travel further than six feet. that's the concern and why the plexiglass could be helpful but is not a panacea here.

>> both pence and the second lady karen pence have tested negative, that's what we are told. an administration official has said that. is that good enough? would you sit on a stage with vice president pence? >> absolutely not. he should be quarantining. so we're holding a debate in a quarantine. the cdc recommendations are unambiguous, very, very clear. and as you and sanjay said, if you've had a close contact with somebody who is known to be infected with the virus, you need to stay home for 14 days. those are the exact words. stay home for 14 days. and it doesn't matter what you've tested negative. so what is the explanation for forcing this debate to continue? there is no public health urgency that would be benefited by having this. to the contrary, only risk.

and this administration hasn't exactly covered itself with glory as it comes to candor in terms of the disclosure, either by the white house people or the white house medical unit, when it comes to the health of the president. frankly, i have no confidence in what i've heard from the white house medical unit or the white house. if i were biden's camp, i would have declined to do the debate tonight. but if the debate were going to go forward, i would have insisted that both parties be tested on site by neutral medical personnel to prove that testing is negative. we still don't have proof that the president himself was tested prior to the debate last week. i would insist that the vice president be tested on site. >> president trump is saying he will participate in next thursday's debate. biden says there shouldn't be a debate if the president is

positive for covid. we don't even know if the president has been lying about when he actually became positive. how can the biden team be 100% confident standing on a stage next to him? >> yeah. i mean, that -- i can completely understand that concern, because we don't have the data and they haven't been forthright about when the president's last negative test was. we keep asking this, they still don't provide an answer. and it's relevant and more and more things are hinging upon that very question, including the next debate. so we can show you when people generally are going to get out of the period of contagiousness. again, this is from cdc guidelines, and we talked to the viral dynamic experts about this today. roughly ten days after people have symptoms, that's when they should typically no longer be contagious. they should have at least 24

hours since their last fever, without using medications, such as fever reducing medications or steroids like dexamethasone, which the president is still taking. we don't know for sure, and obviously improving symptoms. but one of the things that, you know, should be done is as jonathan was mentioning, having negative tests and specifically a lot of people don't have access to these tests. given that they do and we thought they were taking them daily, that doesn't appear to be the case. but they should have two negative tests separated by a day. so if you meet those criteria, there's a good chance he's not contagious, but we don't know. there's not a lot of data they're given us here. >> doctor, just on those guidelines alone, it's impossible to know when the president -- i mean, if it's ten days after the first symptoms, we have no idea when the first symptoms actually were. i mean, we know hope hicks had symptoms on air force one

wednesday evening. we don't know -- for all we know, the president, you know, was positive the day of the debate on tuesday. >> right. we don't know. and it's even more complicated than that. the cdc also states that some patients with severe or critical disease may need to be isolated for 20 days. because they may shed virus. they may shed active virus, not just sort of viral remnants that can't cause an infection but real, active virus for up to 20 days. so think about the president. he was ill enough to require emergent transport to the hospital and treatment with a triple investigative regimen. so, i don't know, to me that sounds like severe disease. so to be on the safe side, i would isolate the president for 20 days. for 20 days. testing is difficult, because many patients, even if they

don't have -- our testing is so sensitive, that you can off pick up viral particles out for a period of time. but i would err on the side of safety. use the cdc guidelines and isolate the president for 20 days. >> i appreciate both of you. we'll be talking to you throughout the night. we'll see how coronavirus is shaping the political night. john king is at the magic wall for us. >> whether you're looking at the here and now, the data about the coronavirus today or going back through the eight-month journey we've all been on, the vice president is in a difficult position tonight, defending the president and his work as the head of the task force. let's look at where we are right now, 27 days to election day. look at this map. 24 states, almost half. nearly half of the 50 states trending in the wrong direction that's the orange and the red. more new infections today than in the data a week ago. not the direction you want to be going in, especially this close to the election. 24 states trending up, 23 holding steady. only three states, only three of the 50 states reporting fewer new infections now than a week

ago. that is not progress, especially as it gets cold and people head inside. this is very important. remember, we go back to the beginning here. we went up the hill in march. mostly on the west coast. washington state and new york and new england and the northeast. on the 16th of april, the white house announced the reopening guidelines. one week after that, one week after that, the vice president of the united states on the debate stage tonight said he was looking at the data, studying it closely. he believed by memorial day this would be behind us. all behind us by memorial day. that's right here. we were only averaging, only is a rough word to use, but we were averaging 18,000 new infections a day on memorial day. look what happened. the summer surge. people blew by the reopening guidelines. texas, florida, georgia, arizona, up we went. more than 70,000 new infections a day. yes, we have come down the hill, but just follow the red line. we're now heading back up at more than 40,000 new infections a day. so everyone was worried. a baseline of about 20,000 when

we had the summer surge. what happens if we get a winter surge and the baseline is twice that? that's what health experts worry about. the vice president said in april, by memorial day, he thought this would be behind us. no, 5.9 million cases, 78% of the new infections in the united states have happened after memorial day. 78%. 110,000 deaths since memorial day. that's 52. that's more than half of the deaths. 52% of the deaths in the united states. of course, we're still counting as we get closer to the election day. so what the vice president said back then was dead wrong. it just hasn't turned out that way. here's the problem in the here and now. the darker the blue, the deeper the color, the higher the coronavirus positivity rate, meaning people taking tests, the percentage coming back positive. 23% in idaho, 15% in wyoming. 20% in wisconsin. let's just zoom in on the dozen states that have double digit positivity right now. that means more coronavirus infections today, more risk for

more infections tomorrow. look at this map. battleground florida, wisconsin, nevada, three key states in the presidential race. here's another way to look at this map. only nevada, carried by hillary clinton four years ago, right now, the coronavirus is playing out, surging, cases increasing on donald trump's 2016 map. smaller states, not very popular states out here. that was trump country in 2016. right now, he said the virus would be gone in april. they are experiencing the coronavirus. this is a global crisis. the president and vice president say america is leading the world, but not in the way you want to lead the world. this is the united states versus the european union and this is japan. this is the seven-day moving average per 1 million residents. remember in the beginning, the united states and the european union went up the hill at the same time. the european union flattened the curve for a very long time.

yes, the european union right now, look at the czech republic, spain, the netherlands, they are having a surge. but they pushed the curve down, so as they deal with the surge, the numbers are lower. the united states never got the surve down. now we're dealing with this. so as the debate plays out tonight, if you say the united states is leading the world, anderson, this is not the race you want to be leading. and i want to come back to this map here. 27 days from the election day, it is indisputable. we are heading in the wrong direction. >> john king, thanks. as we count down to tonight's debate, how both candidates prepared for the big night and who they turned to for help.

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he's a smooth talker, she's a gifted prosecutor and debater. those are the lines i'm hearing from sources in opposing pence and harris camps as they try to set expectations for tonight. one thing we can count on, this will be very different from what we saw last week. for mike pence's debate prep in 2016, scott walker got really into kascharacter playing character. >> you need a hired president, not a you're fired president. >> reporter: walker used that line so much in preparing debates -- >> i laughed watching it, because he was like, boy, you keep repeating it. but it was because i kept using it. >> reporter: cnn is told the vice president is preparing the same way this time around. a small group of advisers doing 90-minute mock debates just like the real thing. with former florida attorney general pam bondi among others,

playing kamala harris. >> we're looking very much forward to the vice presidential debate. >> reporter: will debating kamala harris be harder than debating tim kaine? >> i think so. for two reasons, one because of her background as a prosecutor. i think that will make her effective. and two, i think the stakes are higher. >> reporter: harris is taking a particular approach. pete beaut guttigieg is playing pence to get her ready. is she coachable? >> she takes a ton of advice. she does like to have sort of a diverse, you know, group of viewpoints and a backgrounds that are giving her feedback. >> reporter: she recently got some blunt debate advice from the only woman ever at the top of the ticket. >> i think you should be prepared for the slights, the efforts to diminish you, you personally, you as a woman who

is about to be our next vice president. >> reporter: pence advisers are hoping he avoids cringe worthy moments like in 1984 when george w. bush was debating geraldine ferrero. >> i recent your patronizing attitude. >> she's historic on the ticket, that's a good thing for america. >> reporter: harris advisers see pence as skilled and smooth. >> reporter: there's a reason why people question the trustworthiness of hillary clinton. that's because they're paying attention. >> reporter: the senator certainly knows how to deliver a memorable line. >> that little girl was me. >> that was unbelievably effective. i thought it was where the whole world stopped for a moment. >> reporter: now pence aides are preparing him for harris to turn the conversation to coronavirus as much as possible. >> we're going to hear a lot about mike pence being the head of the coronavirus task force, aren't we?

>> i imagine so. but it's in his title. if you get a big responsibility, it comes with accountability. >> he needs to be prepared to deal with that. even if the president or first lady hadn't gotten coronavirus, that's still the elephant in the room. the american people are thinking about that. i think the more he leans in and says here's what we've done. >> reporter: harris aides are preparing her for the vice president to call her radical. he's been practicing on the stunt. >> senator harris put their radical environmental agenda ahead of wisconsin dairy and ahead of wisconsin power. >> reporter: how should she respond to that? >> it's hard for them to throw out terms like socialism. it doesn't square with the experience and the issues that are most salient to folk's lives right now. >> sources on both sides note that the stakes are very high for each candidate, not just for what their performance means but for the men at the top of their tickets. but also for their own viability in the maybe not so distant

future. pence sources privately admit, win or lose now, he's almost surely going to eye a run for the gop nomination in 2024. if biden wins, there's talk because of his age, he will only serve one term, though biden of course has never said that publicly. erin? >> the stakes could not be higher. dana, thank you very much. anderson? >> yeah, there's going to be a lot to watch for. let's check in with our group. david, what are you thinking? >> he was referring to kamala harris as a skilled prosecutor. she doesn't want to be a prosecutor on the stage. she can tear people apart, we've seen it in senate hearings, but the tone is going to be important here. >> you don't see her being on the attack? >> it's a question of how, and i think they've been working on how that attack should come. because pence, you know, pence is the velvet hammer.

he cloaks his attack in warm words. so that's what happened with tim kaine four years ago. he hit him very, very hard. and pence was very, very smooth in the rebuttal. and she has added challenges, unfairly probably, because women get chosen -- i mean women get judged by a different barometer. >> i think mike pence now, i could be wrong in an hour, i think mike pence will probably being smart take note of the historic nature of kamala harris's candidacy and congratulate her on that. and then turn right away to say she's a stalking horse for the radical left and attack her that way. i think, you know, for mike pence to -- kamala harris is going to be talking covid, covid, covid. i can quite honestly, the president of the united states tonight, by talking about -- let me get this right -- how he may be cured, how catching the virus was a blessing from god. i'm going to make what i got available to everyone, even

though it's hardly available to anyone right now. all of that doesn't make mike pence's job any easier tonight. >> well, for sure, because mike pence has had literally one job his entire job was covid. and he blew it. so you don't have to be a skilled prosecutor to knock him on that. but pence does have some advantages. first of all, he was a radio guy. he's smooth. kamala is a courtroom person. those are different styles and they play different on television. also, pence has been here before. there is no substitute for just experience. he's done it before. this is her first time doing it. and his main job is going to scare people about her. so she's got to figure out a way to assert that she's not a scary person and defend herself and prosecute donald trump. she's got the tougher job, but at the same time, he's sit thing with a big dunce cap on his head. >> don't underestimate mike

pen pence. he knows the coronavirus task force. he's going to make a very strong case. you may not think it's convincing, but i think he's going to do a better job than donald trump has ever done. i happen to believe what the white house has done is not nearly as bad as the way they portrayed it. because i think they have done a lot of good things. they have communicated it poorly because donald trump isn't a good communicator. i think mike pence is. i think you're going to see probably the best case you will see for the administration ever put forward tonight for their covid response. number two, i agree with van, there's no question that this is going to be focused on the fact, fact that she's had the most liberal voting record of any united states senator. she's not a stalking horse for the left, she is the vanguard of the left. that's what he's going to make it out to be. >> doesn't this have to be about joe biden? you know, he can attack kamala harris and say, yeah, you're

left wing and he's an empty vessel. but he has to talk about joe biden's record and she has to defend joe biden's record. >> joe biden said he's the democratic party. but look who he chose. he's going to serve one term, maybe. and look who he chose to fill in. the most liberal member of the united states senate. >> isn't the backdrop for this, we have a president who is positive for covid-19 in the white house, who is walking around the white house and possibly infecting others? and has been -- and the white house and the president have been covering up when he became positive, when he last tested negative. and he's saying it's a blessing from god and is occurred. >> he said it's a blessing from god because he now knows of the treatment that can help people. not that he got covid. >> the fact that he didn't know that was a treatment before hand is pretty pathetic. only when it happens to him that he wakes up and pays attention? >> he knows how effective it was

because of the way he felt. >> this recalls the whole saga from the beginning, hydroxychloroquine, the miracle cure, and all the things that he did to minimize this when he obviously knew -- >> as i said, the messaging on the administration -- [ overlapping speakers ] >> this debate is happening on a night where there is a crime scene tape around the white house, essentially. it is a roped off covid zone. >> the other thing the president's illness does is it underscores the mortality of the guys at the top of the ticket. so we did a focus group in 2008 before the vice presidential debate. people said they were going to pay a lot of attention because they knew john mccain was 72 and had had cancer and they were worried about barack obama's safety if he became president, and they were thinking about these people as people who could be president. and i think you're going to see that tonight. >> when the vice presidential nominees take the stage tonight,

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we are back with our special debate coverage. vice president mike pence and senator kamala harris, with a unique opportunity tonight to sway anybody who is left undecided at their face-off tonight. of course, motivate their base. many americans, though, have already made up their minds, including millions who have already voted in this most unprecedented election. our pamela brown has new numbers. this is a crucial part of this election. what are you finding out? >> this is a company that provides analytics to democrats, and advocacy organizations. what we are seeing so far is this continued surge in early voting. there are more than 5.4 million votes cast in 31 states so far. you look at the breakdown by party. in 17 states so far, 54% democrats have cast their

ballots compared to 25% of republicans. but member, all preelection polling elections will more likely to vote republican. one data point is the breakdown of gender. so far, 55% of the vote who are thiez these early voters in the battleground state. if you look at florida, for example, here on the screen. the hispanic votes making 9% of the ballot so far. that's 6% of hispanics voting.

you look at north carolina, if we go to north carolina here, there is a significant increase among black voters who represent about 17% of those who already cast their ballots. just to put this in perspective for you, only 10% of the vote was made for black voters. we know there are key democratic and demographic. >> all right, do you have reporting on any issues? this is the big question the president keeps on trying to show so much doubt, any issues with early voting ballot? >> that's right, the issue we see had to do with human error. take a look at your screen here, 2% of the ballot that had been returned are waiting to be accepted with some being held while legal disputes are resolved. 357 ballots are on hold because they have incomplete witness information that's required. not every state allows for the

voters to fix the ballots for simple mistake. it is important for everyone voting by mail to follow instructions so that their ballots are not thrown out. go to our website, cnn.com/vote. erin. >> pamela. thank you so much. 5.4 million votes thus far. what do we read into it? >> there is such a big push for people to vote early. remember michelle obama did the democratic convention, get your ballots in tonight. there are people that don't want to go on election day. you worry about doing it right. i am filed in d.c., i am worried that i will screw it up and people will. there will be doubt that could be illegitimate that it is cast on this process so. that's what you take from it and in addition to that you have all these moments in time of huge news. the president getting covid and

at a time people are voting. we don't know what the impact of that is on motivation -- >> north carolina, you have this double digits increase of democrats voting early. you can end up on election day with a big win in a crucial stateme statement. >> same situation with my home state pennsylvania. we are the first time able to vote absentee. ballots received by 8:00 p.m. on election night can be counted through friday. so it is very possible that you can go to bed that night thinking the president has significant lead in pennsylvania, wake up and find out over the span of the next three days that it vanished. stuff happens. it is the nature of human factors. there will be stories about

ballots that were missed delivered. >> for sure. >> it is the nature of the way we run this by creating this artificial once a year largely by volunteers or people paid minimum wage and it goes away until the next year. you got to sign them or some of those votes are going to be tossed out. we have seen a lot of poor cases and by republicans to suppress the voting in some of these battlegrounds. democrats feeling good of the process of voting. >> what they hope is such a big win. >> you have pennsylvania where trump is waiting to say i won election day, why should we keep counting?

>> the most important presidential debate tonight. the two candidates on the ticket and never mind the crisis and the current president having covid. 5.4 million people have already voted. what does tonight do? >> we can't forget this is the time most people are taking the measure of these candidates. they are going to learn about something they don't know. we know all about them and most folks do not. again with this unprecedented background of this pandemic. we'll see them have a spirited and i suspect a debate that's a lot easier to follow than the chaos we saw a week ago with the president and former president. >> with kamala harris you have someone with a lot of women in particular are excited about, asian americans. >> people want to tune into see

this historic moment. >> i believe she will bring a few one-liner like she did with joe biden. who did she took down? she took down biden. >> you are right. i think that's going to be a big topic as well and we'll see. >> i want to under line something that vice president pence in addition to being a good debater is a very good politician. he does know the administration's response to covid-19 better and more fluently thatten tfluen fluently than the president of the united states. he's going to make that case if there is progress on finding the vaccines and therapeutics. he's going to say this

administration is credited for that. he's going to make that case. >> he's not flashy and he's work man like. he's a former talk radio host. if you answer telephone for a living in that manner, you are good at speaking on your feet. there is a kind of warmth that comes through on television. if are kamala harris, you got to worry about beating that stereotypes of black women, she does not want to be too aggressive but she has to be prosecuting the case. >> they keep on saying the case is close. here is this historic figure of kamala harris and who by the way is the future of the democratic party as she sits here tonight as the running mate presidential vice president and nominee down the road at least at this juncture. boy, that's a lot to learn about

somebody if you don't know about them. >> it is an exciting debate to watch. regardless of where you stand on the issues, seeing this debate and seeing her there is a moment of history in this country. thank you all very much. all of you, our coverage of the debate in america continues right now. we are about an hour away from the most important vice presidential debate in the u.s. president trump infected with the virus that killed 211,000 so far. vice president mike pence and senator kamala harris engaging their first faceoff at an uncertain moment during the

pandem pandemic. salt lake city, they are qualified feet away from the presidency. the pandemic is having an impact on the debate even before the candidates are asked of covid-19. you see the barriers are on stage are barriers of that. more aides and allies testing positive at the white house. i am joined by wolf blitzer. >> president trump may have already been infected during his debate with joe biden last week. right now the status is up in the air. senator harris will be seated 12-feet away from her opponent instead of 7-feet originally planned. viewers will see her on the left

of the tv screen and they'll see vice president seated to the right with the clear barriers between them. 12-feet away from the candidates as well. the debate commission says every one in the hall must test negative in order to be allowed in including those on stage and limited. the commissioner will remove anyone in the audience who refuses to wear a mask during the debate as members of the trump's family did last week. 90-minute segment and vice president pence will get the first question based on the coin toss. we'll cover every moment with daniel dale fact-checking the candidates and we'll have the first word on who won from our cnn's instant polls. we are getting late word from our candidate mission tonight.

what do we expect tonight? >> she's not here. she's connecting the pain with americans suffering there this pandemic. she's a woman of color making history by taking on this debate stage. focusing on that, gender is a powerful tool, being a woman taking a softer approach and kelkti kekike connecting emotionally to people at home. it is something she deploys effectively when she was running for president. she was able to take politics and turn it into kitchen table issues. saying if you need to buy tires for a family. gender race optics, an issue

especially when considered she's the first woman of color to hit the debate stage in a general election. they say it is not new territory for the senator. >> thank you, let's go to brian noble right now. >> mike pence is prepared for attacks that'll come from kamala harris related to the fact that president trump tested positive for coronavirus but also the overall administration response of the pandemic and while he's prepared to defend the administration's response and his own personal role of the head of the coronavirus task force. he's ready to return fire. expect mike pence to remind voters, something that the trump

administration argues in full social siized medicine and they talk about kamala harris's connection to the far left element of the democratic party. they believe this is a broad vulnerability for the biden/harris ticket and it is something that vice president plans to hone in tonight in a big way. wolf. >> brian. thank you. jeff zeleny is working his sources. this is one of the last best opportunities to reset and potentially change the nar tirae of this race. for months the republicans trying to brand joe biden as the pl political left. if you talk to democratic operatives and every city across the country, they say that's one of their biggest challenges, simply the identity of this

democratic party. republicans tonight know the stakes are incredibly high. wolf, i talked to a senior republican senator a shore time ago, this is how he frames it tonight. if we don't stop the bleeding tonight, it could be grim for the republican party. that's what the stakes are. not just for the presidency but also for the control of the senate. the vice president has been preparing for this for mock debate sessions. he's trying to tie her to some of those positions she held during the primary. wolf, there is no question. the most important person in the audience is watching from home right behind me here, president trump. he has made the vice president's job so much more difficult because of his conduct over coronavirus for the last week. the question will any of this will breakthrough, certainly

coronavirus and the president catching of it and the white house's handling of it is front and center now. >> jeff zeleny, thank you. as the candidates prepare to take the stage here. the stakes are really amazing. what's going on now? >> absolutely. as if the plexiglass is enough of a reminder. they actually have it operated in the white house, the oval office and the west wing are a hot zone. the white house refused to answer time after time when did the president last tested negative. when did heit? because if he had it and went to

the gold star event two sundays ago and went to new jersey and ohio then that's the ultimate reckless behavior. we don't know the answer to that. we need to know as american citizens but most importantly the people who he was in contact with. when he thinks he could have gotten coronavirus. what about the people this time last week we were talking about his debate prep. almost all of the people in that room, inside that room has covid. they all got tested before him. so it is really an open question whether they got it from the president. >> this all raises a big question. can anyone, any of us or any people in the biden campaign trust what this white house is saying about their testing

regiment and who it has been exposed to. that's why it matters for tonight's debate in which vice president mike pence says repeatedly he does not have to kwaquarantine and he given us letters from his doctor that he was not exposed but he was at that rose garden event, we know that. if you are in the biden campaign right now and i have spoken to people around that campaign today. there is a lot of nervousness over there. it is still a system. they have to expect people who say they are negative are in fact negative. i am not sure of what happened there. >> and they actually took the test. >> first of all, their health experts have said even vice president pence tested negative which he says he has, kamala harris should not page it and

susan paige should not risk it. they should not go into a room where there is air circulating where pence is exhaling and that's a. at this point in the crisis, four years in the administration, you have to ask yourself, do you believer th th? do you believe the white house when you say vice president pence tested negative, would you bet your life on it? >> no. >> since we are watching a debate with one of our friends and colleagues moderating there, we certainly hope so. and if there is a lesson learned that mike pence is not donald trump and despite the fact that he's been serving by his side for four years. the other question is whether we can rely on what the vice president is saying but the fact that the tests are accurate. stephen miller also at the debate prep room got five negative tests until just last night based on what they told us.

just last night so it is not unlike unlikely improbable that we can see same thing with the president. >> health experts are saying you can test negative and still have the virus. the way this starts to impact tonight's debate is going to be the whole argument that the pence/trump campaign has been making it is all under control, we got testing and therapeutics. speaking to someone close to harris, this could not have been served up better for what she's trying to accomplish tonight. we are living in a moment which everything that the pence campaign have said about the virus is put to the test based on the outbreak at the white house and you are going to see the biden campaign trying to take advantage of it. >> it is not said often to stephen miller's credit, he

isolated himself. that's not what vice president pence had been doing. wolf. >> still ahead, the white house is going through an extreme as it struggles to protect staffers from a contagious president. daniel is warming up by breaking down the president's newest claims about the pandemic. we'll be right back. ♪ ♪ ♪

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welcome back, standby for the vice presidential debate. we are live in salt lake city. tonight's debate is the most important vice presidential debate. it is a good chance that president trump will be watching tonight, he's some where in the white house. unclear of where he may be. let's go back to jim acosta, the president returned back to office even though he's contagious. >> a new video released, he's calling a blessing pointing to the medication he's been on for days. sources to the president say he

continues to have problems breathing sometimes. some aides are fearful of being sick because of the president having coronavirus on the white house ground. the president trump is not wearing mask and not social distancing and not getting it. >> i feel great. i feel like perfect. >> reporter: the white house released a video tonight trump saying it was a blessing that he caught covid. >> i caught it and it was a blessing. it was my suggestion, let me take it. the it was incredible how it works. >> reporter: he claims it was a cure. >> now they call it therapeutic. it was not therapeutic, it makes me better. i call it a curer. >> reporter: with the marines

standing outside, president trump returning to the oval office today with two close aides near by. a advisers claimed white house staffers will be protected from the commander-in-chief. >> obviously with the president he continues to work. we got a number of safety protocols with full ppe and masks and goggles for any direct interactions with the president. >> reporter: physicians outside the oval office so-called in the isola isolated cart, medical gowns and respiratory masks and plastic goggles. >> we continue to have a number of areas where we have disinfected for hard surfaces. >> reporter: it has been two days since mr. trump returned

from walter reed hospital taking his mask off the balcony. >> how, i now i am better and m am immune. >> reporter: advisers saying he had trouble breathing sometimes. there are now only approximately 8 to 10 employees rotating in shifts. >> he still has the virus but it does not mean that we can't interwagner act h interact with him in a safe way. >> reporter: cnn has learned that if president is not tested everyday. white house officials using the term regularly. white house outbreak includes 20 people and three journalists tested positive for coronavirus and administration officials are looking into a debate prep

session event nominating amy conen barrett. other military leader like general mark millie tested positive. >> we have been checking on staffs and following necessary contact and tracing procedures. >> reporter: military aides to the president tested positive. there are other workers at the white house who are also at risk, from landscapers to janua janitors are all vulnerable. >> and the president i am told wants to get back on the campaign trail, yes, hold rallies or some kind of rally type event in the coming days. one adviser told me there is no way the president is going back

to the hospital, anderson, unless it is an emergency. this adviser says the only way the president returns to walter reed is if he's on a stretcher. >> the white house continues to refuse to say when the president last tested negative, is that correct? >> that's right, one admission we got was the president was not being tested on a daily basis prior to his positive test results last thursday. >> they admitted that. >> reporter: it does not help us pinpoint when he caught the virus but they are now saying that he was not tested everyday. that's right anderson. >> jim acosta. misleading information about coronavirus. daniel dale is joining us. getting ready for tonight's debate, i am assuming you had a

lot of coffee. what have you been hearing? >> we have been spoken to the president in tweets and prerecorded videos. he claims from the video that the regeneron he took himself is a "cure" for covid-19. that's false, there is no cure for covid-19. this antibody cocktail may proof to be effective but it is not a cure. anderson, his grammar was a little vague. he admitted to bob woodward that the coronavirus is more lethal than the flu. we had more than 211,000 deaths confirmed than the estimated flu deaths for the last five flu seasons combined. trump said in the tweet, the

number of flu deaths are sometimes over 100,000. we have not hit 100,000 through deaths since 1968 according to the cdc's estimate. trump also promised that vaccines are coming momentarily. that's an exaggeration. we know according to all of the credible experts, it won't be distributed to most americans until some point in 2021, not immediately. we have a debate tieonight. we'll hear from two candidates who don't lie nearly as president trump does. i hardly have time to catch a breath keeping up with the dishonesty with the debate. i expect tonight to be a little more chill. that does not mean vice president pence or kamala harris is going to be perfect.

pence has a history of paraphrasing what trump says. harris has sometimes inaccurately describes her own record in the criminal justice system and district attorney and in the senate. she's sometimes inaccurate about president trump's record. so in some way i expect this debate to be easier on the fact-checkers than the last one. i will certainly have some work to do after the debate. >> anderson. >> thank you, daniel. >> i don't even know what to ask. >> i want to take a moment to sort of say how bizarre this whole thing is now. we have two vice president candidates who have to talk to each other through plexiglass

and a president of the united states eager to get back out on the campaign trail having just contracted covid and people who want to talk to him have to wear yellow gowns and goggles to see him >> what else? >> this is the contest which we have a vice presidential debate. i don't see any other way that it is going to be dominated by covid. what pence's message has to be is don't worry, we got it under control. here we are. you have donald trump saying maybe i am cured or the other day don't let covid dominate your life. this is -- >> what's the single worst thing you have heard from a president saying something like that when you have people grieving people

that they cannot even attend funerals for. trump is blowing this. pence is trying to come out to save him because trump is fallen down. there was a moment trump could have gotten the country on his side. he does not have that capacity. what you are going to have tonight is pence is going to go out there trying to rescue this president. >> that's the problem. i am not a doctor. the president says he feels fine. i am qualified to judge campaigns. he's in deep distress. he blew himself up last week on the debate. republicans, we are hoping that mike pence can do what the president didn't and make the case of what the president did not make and he won't get off the stage. the fact he released a video

hours before this debate guaranteeing that this would be front and center, you know, it is tragic for the country. it is suicidal politically for him. >> we walk into this debate and all this commentary and anybody that's paying attention with the expectation that kamala harris is going to clean up. how could she not? how could mike pence do anything other than just, you know, pick up a gun and shoot himself in the head because it is over. >> that's not going to happen. >> expectations right now is how could it not be a huge win for kamala harris. >> it is a track for kamala harris. the question is can mike pence do anything to change the trajectory of the campaign when

the president is taking himself down. >> the answer is mike pence knows this issue better than donald trump and better communicating this issue. he'll lay out what he's been doing. >> kamala harris has done deb e debates with den othten other d. kamala harris is a woman and a woman who's suffering like nobody can believe in this country. single moms are trapped now. they can keep their kids home, they can't feed them, they can't go to work. i think the vice president, if she chooses to be relatable, i

don't think she will -- don't be a prosecutor tonight. pence is tough. don't under estimate him. you be that mother and that woman who understands for this country right now, a working mom, teachers who are mostly women who are crushed by this. >> she has to be more like joe biden. she got to have that empathy that you see at the top of the ticket to trickle down. >> we have president trump's difficult path. also, undecided voters will give us a sense of what they are looking for in tonight's debate. # robinhood believes now is the time to do money.

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proposition 16 takes on discrimination. some women make as little as 42% of what a man makes. voting yes on prop 16 helps us fix that. it's supported by leaders like kamala harris and opposed by those who have always opposed equality. we either fall from grace or we rise. together. proposition 16 provides equal opportunities, levelling the playing field for all of us. vote yes on prop 16.

. as we get closer to our vice presidential debate. let's take a look at where it stands right now. >> the vice president prepares to debate tonight, a lot of pressure not only from president trump but from republicans. we are changing our outlook tonight, our path 270. we have joe biden above 270. it takes 270 electoral votes.

we have joe biden at 290. states that are solid blue. how do we get to 290? biden not only with a lead but a healthy lead. nebraska, congressional district, nebraska does electoral votes by c.d.s. we have this one as lean red for iowa. look at the state of the race with 27 days to go. a lopsided advantage for joe biden. people are saying i remember, we wre went through this in 2016. rule nothing out. look at the toss up states left. ohio, north carolina and florida, they are still on the map. look at the recent polling from these states.

here we go. let's bring it out and look at it here. ohio, a competitive race perhaps, an advantage for ebide. in georgia, a toss up but advantage fine. in florida, the poll shows increasingly that donald trump has to win. north carolina, a tough race here. all the toss ups say biden is competitive. what do the democrats think 27 days out? they are dreaming. joe biden has more money and on the campaign trail. democrats think it is possible. they could sweep. it won't be just him taking the white house or the senate without a doubt. this is the democratic dream they also think they get this electoral voting. can the president come back? yes, he can. it is important as you think about this race. people say 2016, this is not

2016. let's take a look at the polling. one thing to look at, yes, hillary clinton was up eight points nationally the last campaign. she won by about one or two if you look at the national polls. joe biden is up by a bigger margin. bigger biden lead. you see this race is simply not 2016. joe biden does well, better than hillary clinton. trump at 32% nationally among women. joe biden is more than 30 points ahead of that. that's a 47-point advantage. college graduate. 35 points. look at non-college graduate. joe biden is a little ahead in our national polls. this is a constituency that hillary clinton did not do well with and joe biden is doing

well. senior citizens, look at that lopsided joe biden leads. can trump win? yes, ohio, perfectly conceivable. perfectly conceivable, he comes back in a state like iowa. north carolina voted for him last time. you can see trump winning there. you can see trump winning georgia and florida. so many states where you are behind, you're short money from joe biden. if all that happens, joe biden is stilwell ahead. this is a challenge in the final 27 days. trump will have to flip pennsylvania or get arizona back. can he win? yes, he can win. this is not 2016. you look at this map and the recent trends right now is lopsid lopsided. it puts a lot of pressure on the president tonight and raises big

question when can the president get back on the trail. >> thank you, john king. david, what are you looking for tonight? >> well, watching jon, taking you through the sort of biden collection of what biden has against trump. what i did was look at our national polls to say how does that translate to the issues that's most important to voters. that's fwoi that's going to be a road map for what you hear mike pence and kamala harris talking tonight. take a look from our most recent national polls this week at how the issue matrix splits between biden voters and trump voters. coronavirus, 66% of biden voters say it is extremely important in their vote and only 21% of trump's voters, healthcare.

25% say -- trump voters, race relations so expect kamala harris to lean in every time of coronavirus and healthcare and race relations is the topic of discussion. the flip side for mike pence is when the topic is the economy, when the topic is crime and safety. you see those are the issues most important to trump ownervo. look at supreme court nomination. it is equally important. so the amy coney barrett issue will come up. >> david, thank you. cnn put together a focus dprup group of undecided voters.

sarah sidner, what are you hearing from these undecided vote voters? >> reporter: a lot of things and a lot of different issues. this is an important debate to them. this is the first day of early voting starting today here in arizona. all right, let's get to these undecided voters here. we have ten people here who given us their time and they're going to give us their honest opinion. joseph, you are our undecided voter and so as everyone else here. >> yes. >> americans, many of them can't believe that anyone is undecided in this polarized time. why are you still undecided? >> i want to know what the candidates' plans are. it is crucial time, we need people willing to talk to each other and for trump, i want to see what his plans are to make

it happen. i want biden to tell me how he's going to be able to reach across the isle because -- i want to know how they can work together to make the country better and not just make it. >> you are looking for unity. >> yes. >> reporter: you are a first time voter, right? tell me why you are undecided. what makes you unsure? >> i want to see what both candidates have to offer. wi with. >> reporter: a lot of people are very much chosen who they're going vote for. all right, i think the next

thing we would like to ask folks is how important the vice president is during this particular debate. we would like to start with vanessa. >> four years ago i was in a different spot of my life. i am definitely -- i want to hear what they have to say. >> reporter: all right, let's go ahead and go over morgan. morgan, you work in healthcare, correct? how important that this is a historic election.

senator harris is a woman of color and a first time in a major presidential ticket. she's jamaican and indian decent is th . is that important to you? >> representation matters. of where we are at in our country of so much division, it would be incredible to see unity in presidential. >> reporter: the unity is a theme here. what do you think of the fact on this ballot and someone of color and a woman that we have not seen it before in our history in a major ticket. >> i think it is glareat. i think it is great. >> reporter: all right, i want to give you about exactly what's going to happen going forward. all of these lovely folks have

one of these. it is a cell phone that has our i.t. department fixed up. they can tell you what they think and how strongly they feel about vice president candidates, mike pence or kamala harris. they'll make their vote. we are strongly adprgreeing or disagreeing. some people will be in the middle. we'll have to wait and see. >> sarah sidner in phoenix for us. thank you, we are minutes away from this historic debate. >> that's right, wolf. i have to say this is the most important vice president debate history. who ever wins will be the oldest president in the united states and one of them has coronavirus. >> hopefully one of them. we should take a moment to

acknowledge the trailblazering manner with one of the nominees, first african-american, first woman on that stage ever. >> you know that tonight kamala harris is feeling that weight of history on her shoulders. not just because of what we just talked about but americans are going to be looking at this debate to see who the potential next generation of each of their parties could be but also looking to see whether these two people have what it takes to be in the chair so to speak. kamala harris understands the pressure of being a woman and a pressure of being a black woman in this political environment. i think her team is interested in seeing how mike pence feels with that. i am not sure if mike penc pence -- probably has not. he had no go in a toe to toe in

a political setting with that kind of biography. i think we are all looking to see. i don't know if i have an answer of how pence is going to handle it. >> scott walker who played tim kaine is involved in his debate prep right now. he's convinced that the president will acknowledge it and how important it is. the question though is after that moment how he moves around and maneuvers around him. i am told from people from around the harris debate prep, they are cognizant of the fact that she's a woman. yes, it is 2020. people. >> reporter: sometimes perceived differently by voters. she's who she is and she's confident. she's done very well so far. that's something they are thinking about when it comes to perception.

>> there is the whole angle and this is republicans talking point. kamala harris is not a moderate. that's their pitch. joe biden is the empty ease sell and the kamala harris of the world. when presented with the more progressive aspect of the party, joe biden tends to distance himself. that's not me. >> kamala harris to be honest, she could sell herself as more of a moderate, she tends to run forward and embrace. >> she has in the primary. this is the pickle that she's going to be in tonight. she took a lot of positions in order to stay in the game that put her far on the left and frankly were kind of different from her political identity prior to that moment. tonight pence is going to put her in a box on those issues.

i am going to say well, you had this position 8 or 10 months ago. how is this different sns. >> they're deadly ready for the radical left. which is it? am i too far to the left or too far to the right? >> we'll keep an eye on the debate hall. our dr. sanjay gupta is joining us right now. you can see live pictures at the debate stage right now. the seats are 12-feet, three inches apart, complexiplexiglas coronavirus tested negative for the virus. will that plexiglass do anything? >> well, it will help with basic

respiratory droplets which is a concern in terms of spreading coronavirus. but as you know, the cdc has on their website, there is also evident that this virus can spread aerosal. it can travel further than six feet. >> you look at these types of events, jake, we'll look back historically and say we are in the middle of the pandemic and the viral transmission is growing and we brought our vice president candidates together for a debate. >> virtual would be much safer and doing it outside would be safer. they're trying to make the best of the situation so the plexiglass offers a little bit of a protection.

i agree which does not stand for the test of time. >> audience have to take a coronavirus test and wear a mask. that will requires people to have a sense of honor and a lot of members of trump's family either refused to have masks on or took them off as soon as they got there. is there a risk for the people in the audience? >> of course, there is a risk. we are in a pandemic. at our hospital, we have not had a meeting with more than a handful of people since march. as dr. gupta just mentioned, we know greater clarity that this virus is transmitted and not just by droplets but also

areosal. so there is no reason we have an audience in that room. they should meet electronically. in 1960, the third debate, richard nixon was in california and j.f.k. was in new york. moderators was in chicago. this was 60 years ago. it should have been done now. the vice president is under quarantine now. he should be home, locked at home for another seven days. there is no reason to have anyone there. >> st. johns yeanjay, the harri says it is the clinic's job. to be frank, they did not do it last time. i wonder if you trust that the commission on presidential

debates and the cleveland clinic based on what you saw a week ago are up to the challenge of saying no. we have to do it >> it's interesting. i'm concerned about this, and i'll tell you why. we reached out to the cleveland clinic about their protocols, and they said they're taking the cues from the commission of presidential debates. the commission said they're relying on the medical advice of the cleveland clinic. so there's a lot of this going on. but what are the protocols with regard to the testing, they said, you have to show that you've had a negative test within the last 72 hours. and you have to sign an affidavit. you don't have to show the test, they're not reviewing the test. there's not that honor system. 72 hours is sort of a strange time frame.

we know you can test negative three days ago, and test positive a day or two days later. in this case, they did take pcr tests yesterday, but the cleveland clinic recommendations are only three days. and the type of test. they said you can take any fda authorized tests, not just the pcr tests but the antigen tests. it's a porous system, and you get the idea it's more designed to check some boxes, not really catch people. this is the medical protocol, we've reached out to cleveland clinic to have them better explain to us why they would choose this system. they haven't gotten back to us on this, but this is the system they've got in place. it's not going to catch everybody, by any means. >> and this is also a problem, because the trump administration, the trump white house, are being opaque about

the president's current health situation. they're still refusing to say when the president last tested negative. this is important because he theoretically contracted the virus on september 26th, the saturday when they had that event inside and outside the white house for their new supreme court nominee. after that date, he had an event with gold star families, tuesday, went to ohio, wednesday, to minnesota, thursday, to new jersey. we have no idea when he tested positive, and for some reason, the white house refuses to say when he last tested negative. >> right. i have no confidence that he acquired it saturday the 26th. he may have acquired it earlier. if you look at the president's clinical presentation, he got really sick on thursday. typically, patients get really sick about a week after they

develop symptoms. he was certainly infected and infectious two days earlier at the debate. there's another interesting point. the president met with the rnc chairperson ronna mcdaniel on friday, september 25th. we need to know from dr. conley, because he knows the date of the president's last test. just tell us when the president last tested negative. it's very important. it's important from a public health perspective. >> i've never seen anything like this, and i just have to say, i was told today by an official in the office of the governor of minnesota that the white house has yet to reach out to the department of health in minnesota. anderson? >> jake, remarkable.

david, should the next debate take place? >> well, the question is, if it does take place, should it take place as planned, a town hall meeting with citizens asking questions of the candidates? even if the president is somehow cleared to appear, should it go to a more remote debate? that seems like the wise thing to do. >> so tonight, in the final minutes up to this, it seems like there's a lot -- both sides can make obviously a lot of mistakes. what do you think vice president pence has to do? >> vice president pence has to say that kamala harris is, kamala, is a stocking horse for radical leftists in this country. and that joe biden is just going to do whatever they tell him. and i think she's got to say, covid, covid, covid. >> we saw a shot of karen pence

and kamala harris' husband at the debate hall. >> she's got to say, you guys mismanaged this, you lied to us, more than 200,000 people are dead. and this would not have happened under a biden administration. and she has to be able to defend joe biden. because pence is going to attack joe biden, attack his 47 years in public service, and she has to be the greatest defender of biden. >> they're now introducing the moderator. ben? >> i wanted to state something that may be obvious, but it's worth saying. this is a moment of great pride for a lot of people, a lot of women of color, asian people, black folks in front of the tv tonight. kamala harris, the african-american community has rallied behind her because she went to a black college, she's a member of a greek letter organization, there's a massive support system locked in place

behind her. people are very proud of her. people saying she's too liberal, we're proud of the fact that she's standing up for people, fighting for climate solutions, and they're proud of her walking out to make history tonight. >> i agree with gloria, he has to make the case that kamala harris is not a stocking horse. she is the vanguard, the likely successor, people are looking at both these presidents as older men. this is a serious -- many times, i wish maybe it was these two instead of the two at the head. you may get your wish in this case. >> yeah. >> and i think people are looking at this more seriously. mike pence has to show he's in command, and tone will be very important for him. he's going to go after her on her record. he has to do it in a way that

doesn't turn people off. >> they both have that challenge. >> that's a big thing. and secondly, for kamala harris, there's a reason, as the front-runner in the democratic party, that she didn't make it to iowa. she has to reverse course as someone who had very uneven debates going into iowa. and that's why she failed. can she execute and deliver a compo composed, confident message, or will she do what she did before, she was all over the place. you just didn't know what she thought. that's a real issue for her. >> we're going to have someone on the stage who represents the emerging american majority in politics, and a white, evangelical, former radio talk show host from the center of the country, from rural america. it's striking to see the two of them sitting next to each other. and that's one of the subtexts,

because they do represent the future. >> they both have to manage this tone stuff. if a black woman comes on too strong, she's angry. pence could come off as sexist. but she's going to be able to manage it, she's done it over and over again. >> and how many times have we heard mike pence say we stand on his broad shoulders. we stand on his shoulders. he's got to defend the president. >> no, if he goes out there and defends donald trump like he has for the last four years, you can mail this in. look -- >> but doesn't he have to defend him? >> mike pence is running for president tonight. because the question is, not, you know, whether these guys are potentially be the president. it's when they'll be the president, right? >> when they're going to run. >> these are older men who are

not well. if i were mike, that's what i would be thinking. i'm running for president, and i have to be my own guy. if he's out there apologizing for trump, that won't help donald trump. >> that's tough. he's the running mate. >> i understand that. but he's got to make the case that donald trump didn't effectively make on covid, and he has to prosecute the case on kamala harris being for stacking the court. for eliminating private health insurance. those are big issues he can handle. >> we're seconds away. let's go back to jake. >> we're hoping that coronavirus is only figuratively present in the debate hall this evening. and not literally present. but it certainly is going to be a major subject. the smog of it all, and the administration's mishandling of it, both when it comes to the national response, and the fact that the white house is a hot

spot. >> i'm happy that it seems everybody is wearing their masks their their seats. but those atmospherics are going to really frame this debate. the job for the pence side is going to be, how do you get the attention off of covid and on to some other things? >> with plexiglass right there. >> we're already seeing pence signaling, he's going to be aiming for something that could be a weakness for kamala harris. foreign policy, he's nshe's not experienced as he's become. >> talking to sources in both camps, of course coronavirus is the other kind of entity on the stage there, unfortunately. and things have changed a lot since the president and his wife and so many other people in the white house have gotten covid. but when it comes to the substance of what t