and because it's a special election, if mark kelly wins, he could play a role in the nomination process for amy coney barrett to the supreme court. of course that assumes she's not confirmed by election day. erin? >> all right. miguel, thank you very much and thanks to all of you. anderson starts now. good evening. the president of the united states is certainly living up to the title bob woodward's book about him. the book, of course, is "rage" and the president's clearly in one. fading in the polls he's lashing out at perceived enemies demanding the attorney general bring charges against his opponent. his 2016 opponent and the last president, describing senator kamala harris as, quote, this monster. in addition, he continues to mislead the public about a pandemic that itself is raging once again and has now taken more than 212,000 lives in this country. but the president being the president isn't focussing on them or on their loved ones or any covid experience but his own. as a result he's floating dangerous results about ideas of

how survivable it is because it was survivable from him. he's hinting he contracted the virus from the families of fallen u.s. service members because of how much they love him. on top of that, according to "the new york times" maggie haberman, the president wants to begin campaigning as soon as monday because of how good he feels, potentially because he's been taking mood-altering steroids. the white house physician put out a statement clearing him for public engagements as early as saturday. is he infectious right now? unclear from the white house physician. he is as the marine guard outside indicates back in the oval office, putting people around him potentially and their families at risk by not following cdc guidelines and isolating himself. is he perhaps kidding himself about his status at the moment? listen. >> no, i don't think i'm contagious, but we have to wait. i don't think i'm contagious at all. >> in fact, unless he's superman or behave covid positive far earlier than he is letting on,

which is almost, well, which is actually entirely possible, it's almost certainly not true that he is not contagious. the cdc recommends at least ten days of isolation for anyone who has had covid and says it could be as long as 20 days if like the president they've been hospitalized and needed oxygen. the president is still treating his own experience as representative, and the lesson he's taking from it when he's not cracking jokes is that covid is nothing to worry about. >> i'm back because i'm a perfect physical specimen and i'm extremely young. and so i'm lucky in that way. look, what happens is if you're anywhere around the thing, you can catch it. people caught it. and i'm not just talking about this location, i'm talking about many other locations. now, what happens is you get better. that's what happens, you get better. >> unless you don't. 212,000 americans never got better. they're dead. and of the 7.6 million people who have been infected, many of them still haven't gotten

better. thousands are hospitalized around the country. some continue to suffer debilitating and painful symptoms for months after they've supposedly recovered from covid. hundreds are still dying every day right now and the latest estimate is deaths may reach 400,000 past the end of the year. but, look, the president is saying right now you get better. he had less to say about his own superspreader event at the rose garden two weeks ago or that so many of his senior adviser are infected as are his campaign manager, bodyguard, three senators, one university president and two military commanders. and, again, today neither he, his doctor nor his spokespeople had anything to say about when he actually last tested negative. they are covering that up for some reason. instead, the president today suggested he might have contracted covid from gold-star families at a reception the day after the rose garden ceremony. >> and they'd come up and they'd tell me a story about my son, sir, was in iraq or he was in afghanistan.

and, sir, he did this and he did that, and then he charged in order to save his friends. and, yes, sir, he was killed, but he saved his friends. he's so brave, sir. and i can't back up and say, give me room. i want room. give me 12 feet. stay 12 feet away when you talk -- they come within an inch of my face sometimes. they want to hug me and they want to kiss me. and they do. and, frankly, i'm not telling them to back up. i'm not doing it. but i did say it's like, you know, it's obviously dangerous. it's a dangerous thing, i guess if you go by the covid thing. >> now, in addition to the narcissism and the callousness of that, there is also the fact that if he had worn a mask in those moments and the people around him had been asked to wear masks, the risks would be reduced, as his own cdc guidelines point out. but when the president suggests he may have been infected by gold-star families. think about what else the president is suggesting there. suggesting that he was infected

on sunday evening, 48 hours before last tuesday's debate with vice president biden. if he was tested every day as the white house previously claimed, he might have actually known it. it would mean he's right, he had covid when he went to that rally on wednesday in minnesota. the same rally when hope hicks fell ill and had to isolate within air force one on the trip back. thursday when he went to his country club cl about no new jersey to meet some high-dollar donors. think of all the people that came in contact with him, hundreds of people. according to the "washington post" has the cdc been called in to help contact tracing in the white house. "new york times" journalist michael sheer who told us he thinks he contracted the coronavirus on the saturday of the rose garden event at the white house earlier that day or while traveling on air force one with the president. he says no contact tracers have reached out to him. but don't take our word for it. take mitch mcconnell's. that's right. that mitch mcconnell.

>> i actually haven't been to the white house because august 6th because my impression was their approach to how to handle this is different from my -- what i insisted that we do in the senate, which is to wear a mask and practice social distancing. >> hard to hear, but he's saying he didn't go to the white house since august 6th because he was worried about how they were handling covid and it was different than the way he was making sure it was handled on the senate side. just think about that for a moment. a close ally of the president not even willing to come anywhere near the white house because of how un-serious he thought the white house was being, even about keeping themselves safe. and how un-serious he still believes they are. might have been nice for mitch mcconnell to warn others not to go to os white house, but he seems to have kept that one pretty close to the vest. now, the president also lashed out today about the russia investigation, oh, and hillary

clinton's emails. he's back to that. he asked why she hadn't been indicted yet and called on attorney general barr to indict joe biden and former president obama. >> unless bill barr indicts these people for crimes, the greatest political crime in the history of our country, then we're going to get little satisfaction unless i win and we'll just have to go. because i won't forget it. but these people should be indicted. this was the greatest political crime in the history of our country, and that includes obama and it includes biden. these are people that spied on my campaign. and we have everything. >> the president also pulled out of the next debate and again falsely compared himself to winston churchill after the debate commission made the event virtual. >> no, i don't want to do a virtual debate because virtual debate is -- is a joke. there's no reason. i'm in great shape. i just, you know, unlike joe, i don't have the luxury of staying in a basement all day long. i'm running a country.

you know, when winston churchill was prime minister, he would stand at the top of buildings as hitler was dropping bombs on london. you know that. you've heard that. and he'd make speeches and put his fist up in the air and say how dare you, you know, the mad dog, he called him. and, you know, it's -- i can't stay in the basement. i can't stay in a basement. and he can. >> he's said this before. churchill didn't -- wasn't the one standing on building tops as german bombs fell. the cbs news correspondent edward r. murrmurroo was famous doing broadcasts. he actually spent much of the blitz in the basement in a massive bunker complex for his own safety. cnn's jim acosta is out at the white house tonight for us. so i understand the trump campaign has just issued another statement on the campaign. what are they saying? >> reporter: yeah, anderson,

they're saying that because of this letter from dr. sean conley that came out earlier this evening, saying that the president is essentially clear to get back to what they're saying -- what they're calling public engagement on saturday, i.e., get back on the campaign trail, that the president could essentially be at the debate next insure in miami. and they're calling on the debate commission to reverse course. do away with this idea of a virtual debate and have a face-to-face, in-person debate next thursday in miami. obviously the debate commission is in charge of all of this, not donald trump and not the trump campaign. but that's what they're saying tonight. >> i mean, i guess given the fact that this administration is covering up when the president actually last tested negative, why would anybody believe or have any confidence in what the white house is saying about the course of his illness and when he's able to be out in public? >> well, we can't trust what they've been saying, anderson, and obviously dr. sean conley, even though he has a good reputation inside the white

house, people inside the white house have told me they like dr. sean conley, he has essentially been putting out information that the president wants put out to the public. we've said this time and again. he seemed to do that earlier this evening when he seemed to give the president a green light to get back out on the campaign trail. i will say, anderson, we're now into day three of not independently observing with our own eyes how the president is doing. the white house has put out these propaganda videos. they're starting to rival, you know, the propaganda videos that come out of russia and north korea where they put the president out on the south lawn of the white house and try to show him doing just fine. we have no way of observing that. the only thing we've been able to observe over the last three days is the marine standing outside the west wing and officials telling us, yes, he's in the oval office and meeting with officials and, oh, by the way, they're wearing personal protective equipment. we have no way of verifying that because we haven't been able to get close to the situation.

thank goodness because none of us want to get zblik vice president pence postponed a planned trip to indianapolis where he was set to vote early. i think it was set to take place tomorrow. do we know why he did that? >> reporter: yeah, what the campaign is saying, what pence advisers are saying is that mike pence wanted to get back to washington to get some rest after being ohit debate perform. they made a last-minute decision to return to washington this evening instead of going to indianapolis and the vice president voting. it also raises questions as to what is going on here. we have no way of independently verifying any of these events and whether or not any of it is related to the president's current condition. obviously you saw what the house speaker nancy pelosi was saying earlier today. she suspects the president is in some sort of altered state because of the medications he's on right now, but one of the top white house officials that we hear who is still working at the white house right now, the communications director, said no, no, no, that's absolutely

not the case th. that the president is strong. but, anderson, no question about it, we are flying blind right here -- right now, right here, and, you know, we're on the dark side of the moon in terms of what we know about how the president is doing and how the rest of the team is doing at this point. >> yeah. jim acosta, appreciate it. thanks. perspective now from former senior adviser to the man the president wants indicted, david axelrod. gloria borger and dr. sanjay gupta. he wants president obama indicted. time will tell. david, you tweeted today that the president has basically turned his own political demise into a, quote, surreal reality show. do you think this -- this -- does -- i mean, does this get him anywhere? i mean, you know, bringing up the hillary clinton emails? it's all the greatest hits from rants of the past. and only, you know, with sort of infomercials for, you know, remdesivir and other things thrown in and free offerings to

seniors. >> no. the short answer is no. the president -- i have to say, at this moment it feels like the president is not well. the kinds of things that he said on that show, they're not unlike things that he's said in the past, but as you say, it was kind of like a spasmatic burst of resentments, and the resentment, you know, he often appeals to other people's sense of resentment. that's part of his political formula. he's really voicing his own resentments. maybe at some level he recognizes that he is not on course to win this race, but that was a really appalling and i think alarming performance today because we don't know what drugs he's on. we don't know what his condition truly is. and we don't really know whether he's of sound judgement right now. >> gloria, calling senator kamala harris a monster today. >> yeah. >> calling -- calling her, you know, other things as well. a communist. you know, again, not surprising, not shocking.

it's -- it's what he does, i guess. it seems, i guess desperate, given -- >> it is. >> just so kind of ridiculous saying she's a communist. >> right. >> but is this -- is any of this working for him? i mean, i'm not sure -- you know, i know democrats think they're ahead in the polls. i don't -- i think a lot of people thought hillary clinton was ahead in the polls and she didn't win. so i'm not sure -- i mean, should democrats be confident? >> look, democrats are looking at the polls, too, and so they're confident but they understand what happened in 2016. and the last thing they want to do is get overconfident because what that tells is your voters, oh, you can stay home. you don't have to vote. you don't have to return that ballot. so they are -- they are not doing that. what we are seeing and hearing from the president, as david is saying, is this kind of desperation, this flailing and the name-calling of kamala harris as a monster and a communist and everything else is -- is a president who needs

enemies. he needs people. there is real oxygen, anderson. these enemies. so he's a convenient enemy for him. because he says, oh, you know, she's the stocking horse for the radical left. and, oh, by the way, he said today, and this was stunning, joe biden won't last two months. did you hear that? he said that. and what was that about? kamala harris is a woman of color. was he telling people, oh, okay, well, you know, she could be president in two months. i mean, it was kind of stunning to me. >> sanjay, when the president said tonight i don't -- he said, quote, i don't think i'm contagious at all and that he feels perfect, that's not how this virus works. we have no idea what's going on with him. we don't know how long he's had it. we don't know how much he spread it. but, you know, they're trying to -- they are covering that up successfully. is there any way to really know -- way to know how he's doing?

>> no. i mean, you know, we're sort of at the mercy of the doctors who say that they want to brief people and disclose how the president's doing, but then they speak in these -- in she's very vague sort of ways. i mean, there is a convention that the medical profession communicates messages back and forth. and these letters and statements and even the briefings have all been -- we've sort of had to translate these things. so we don't know. we do know he wouldn't be out of his contagious period yet by lots of data and looking at cdc guidelines. but i want you to listen to how dr. conley was just talking about this just on monday, just three days ago. >> we're in a bit of uncharted territory when it comes to a patient that received the therapies he has so early in the course. so we're looking to this weekend. if we can get through to monday with him remaining the same or improving, better yet, then we will all take that final deep sigh of relief.

>> so that was on monday, anderson, and so here we are on thursday and he's saying we got to wait at least until the following monday. so, you know, several days from now, four or five days from now. here we are on thursday basically saying that, you know, things are -- things are basically back to normal, you know? they released this letter today -- and i don't know if we have a shot of this letter, but, you know, again, there is a convention with the way medical professionals sort of communicate. one thing about this letter right away that you'll notice is there's not even the temperature on here. it's hard to read, obviously, but i can tell you there's no temperature on here for somebody who has an infection. and that's key because not having a temperature is one of the -- one of the criteria for starting to come out of isolation. they don't even mention the temperature here. instead they say that he has a trajectory of -- he had advanced diagnostics in the right trajectory. i don't even know what that means. >> what is that? >> are those tests?

so it's purposely vague. and it's disappointing because, again, if you want to -- if you want to present information then do it. otherwise you're presenting this stuff that is sort of gibberish and hard to translate. >> it's interesting. he talked about in that letter, saturday will be ten days from thursday's diagnosis. he didn't say from the president's first positive diagnosis or first positive test. >> right. >> he just said thursday's diagnosis, which is the only diagnosis we've been told about, but the timeline doesn't really seem to match up. it seems like there may have been, you know, he may have known before this. we simply don't know. >> yeah, no, we don't know and i still don't -- i'm not clear, obviously, as i pointed out, with this letter. are they -- are they getting -- trying to get serial negative tests for covid? is that what they're relying on? and if so, that's not a good strategy. he's obviously been on all these different medications.

we know when we were at least told he first developed symptoms, but we also know that he was hospitalized. so his duration of his contagious period may be longer as a result of that. as you pointed out, anderson, up to 20 days. there are -- there are clear ways to communicate what's going on with the president. we still don't know if he has pneumonia. we don't know when his last negative test is. we don't know what the deal is with these medications or how they're still monitoring those. if he's still on the steroids. we talked about this before and i probably sound like a broken record, but they're purposely being vague. i know this. we read lots of types of these letters from doctors. this is not normal what's happening here, and, by the way, it also fits the pattern of other doctors letters we have regarding donald trump. we can't really make sense of it. it's like putting the pieces of a puzzle today. >> david, there is this new statement from the trump campaign about the debate.

i'm confused what they're saying. saying the president could be there in person. the debate is virtual. he's saying he won't do virtual. what do you think is going to happen? >> well, i think they're going to try to debate somehow. because he's ten points behind and he desperately needs to do something to change the dynamic. but, you know, this is the problem. he said this morning he won't do it. they're changing their tune a little bit tonight. it's the same way that he's dealt with, you know, the issue of the stimulus. you know, one day he's out. the stock market tanks. by nighttime he's changing his position and everybody's standing there scratching their heads. and that's the position we're in on this debate. and, you know, maybe they're in a test of wills with the debate commission and the biden campaign. but i got to tell you the truth. joe biden's under no pressure to debate at this point. >> right. >> he's got this -- he's got this race well in hand. he said i'll show up for a virtual debate. >> yeah. >> and the president can take it or leave it. >> yeah. david axelrod, gloria borger,

sanjay gupta, thanks so much. appreciate it. coming up next, details of the alleged plot to kidnap the governor of michigan and the frightening agenda behind it. michigan's attorney general joins us. and later, bill gates joins us to talk vaccines and therapies, including the experimental treatment that the president got. ♪

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with priceline, you can get up to 60% off amazing hotels. and when you get a big deal... ...you feel like a big deal. ♪ priceline. every trip is a big deal. breaking news out of michigan tonight. the fbi announced they have foiled an alleged domestic terrorism plot to kidnap the governor of michigan, overthrow several state governments and according to the federal

criminal complaint, quote, ins gate a civil war. today michigan's governor gretchen whitmer made a statement and brought up president trump's comments at the last debate telling far-right group the proud boys stand back and stand by. >> hate groups heard the president's words not as a rebuke, but a rallying cry, as a call to action. when our leaders speak, their words matter. they carry weight. >> in a moment we'll be joined by michigan's attorney general. first, our randi kaye with details of the alleged plot. >> the alleged conspirators are extremists who undertook a plot to kidnap a sitting governor. >> reporter: that governor, gretchen whitmer of michigan. investigators say the men planned to kidnap whitmer from her vacation home before the november election and put her on trial for treason after she shut down the state to stop the spread of the coronavirus. according to the criminal complaint, the finnegan investigating earlier this year

after learning of the scream through social media. they infiltrated the group using confidential informants. in june the complaint says one of the six main suspects, adam fox, live streamed a video on a private facebook group complaining about the state of michigan controlling the opening of gyms. the suspect allegedly referred to governor whitmer as a tyrant bitch. the fbi says it has an audio recording of fox in july describing the plot as a snatch and grab, saying on the tape, grab the f-ing governor, just grab the bitch. another suspect stated during an encrypted group chat. someone should knock on the door and when she answers just cap her. >> that the group successfully detonated an improvised explosive device wrapped with shrapnel to test the abilities

of its capability. >> reporter: members of a michigan-based militant group called wolverine watchmen. the fbi says this group was planning to assault the michigan state capitol, using molotov cocktails to destroy police cars. in all, 13 people have been implicated in the plot against michigan state officials and law enforcement. one says the complaint group met in the basement of a business owned by suspect adam fox. a basement accessed through a trap door hidden under a rug. this isn't the first time whitmer's life has been in danger. she faced multiple death threats after issuing stay-at-home orders to help control coronavirus in her state. in april protesters gathered at the capitol, causing gridlock and demanding the stay-at-home order be lifted. later that month, this was the scene inside the capitol. protesters demanding an end to the state of emergency. many openly carrying firearms, which is legal in the state. that same month president trump

tweeted, "liberate michigan." today after the plot against her was made public, governor whitmer called out the president who just last week refused to condemn far-right groups. >> hate groups heard the president's words not as a rebuke, but as a rallying cry, as a call to action. when our leaders speak their words matter. they carry weight. >> reporter: randi kaye, cnn, palm beach, florida. >> and joining us now is michigan attorney general dana nestle. madam attorney general, appreciate you being with us. what more can you tell us about the size and the scope of this alleged plot against governor whitmer and any concerns you still have about exactly what was in the works. >> well, yeah, we're concerned, anderson. there remains a number of individuals, number of groups that are out there and that

continue to plan acts of domestic terrorism, not just in michigan, but in a multijurisdictional fashion. across many states. this is not just a michigan problem, this is now an american problem. so, yeah, we have concerns, and, unfortunately, it seems as though those who would engage this kind of behavior, they've been able to use the covid epidemic and the civil unrest from the black lives matter movement to recruit more members. so we've had an exponential rise terms of the number of groups in our state and our country. >> there is some connection or at least interest by one of the people in qanon as well, which we've seen obviously grow a lot online. how direct of a line, if any, do you believe you can draw from these suspects back to the unrest in michigan's capitol earlier in the pandemic? because people obviously remember seeing and hearing, you know, very ugly rhetoric. armed -- armed people, you know, at the statehouse yelling at law

enforcement, yelling at legislators. >> well, i can tell you that many of the defendants that were charged today, both in the federal and in the state indictments were there and present at that event, and that event was also utilized to recruit more members. so i think it was a pivotal point, but, frankly, many of the protests that have gone on here in our state have been used for recruitment and to further the cause. >> the president -- if memory serves me, the president actually praised those people when -- at the unrest in michigan, the armed people at the statehouse. i don't have it in front of me, but as i recall he, you know, praised them. that was around the time of the "liberate michigan" tweet. >> he sure did. he indicated that they were very good people and that the governor actually ought to sit down and negotiate with these armed gunmen, which, of course, is outrageous. i am so tired of seeing his

perpetual tweets where he tweets law and order, and the fact is those who believe in law and order and who support law and order don't support domestic terrorists. those of us who really believe in the premise of law and order hold domestic terrorists accountable. >> because just, i mean, in the -- in the charges against these people, they planned to attack law enforcement personnel. so, i mean, this whole idea that these are law and order enthusiasts, they're talking about, you know, having an ied and molotov cocktails to hit police vehicles. >> they do. they're very anti-law enforcement, many of these groups. so it is so stunning to me that you will see some of our state politicians actually that will be out at their events, speaking at their events, hobnobbing with these individuals at their events and then go back and expect to be supported and often are supported by police unions. and yet here they are

fraternizing literally with the enemy of police departments and police officers and those who wish to execute law enforcement officers. so it really doesn't make any sense to me, but, unfortunately, it's the state of affairs right now in our state and really across our nation. >> there has been so much talk of, you know, fears of civil conflict, fears of society disintegrating, and, i mean, i think that's one of the reasons why this is so concerning to people. i'm wondering what your message tonight is, not just to citizens of michigan, but americans around the country who are hearing this, reading about this and, you know, are afraid of that, are afraid that there may be other folks out there just like, you know, these, you know, wanna be weekend warriors and who knows what they're up to. >> yeah, well, i guess my message is this. first of all, i sit on a stage today, not just myself and the colonel of the michigan state police, but we were joined by the fbi and by the u.s. attorneys of both the eastern and western districts of michigan. so this was truly a case of both

state -- and i'm a democrat standing on the stage with trump appointees who were also, you know, highly engaged in this. and pivotal in terms of ensuring that justice was brought against these individuals. so there are those of us in law enforcement that are still willing to hold bad actors accountable, and we are watching these bad actors and we are aware what they're doing and we're doing everything we possibly can to protect the public from some of the egregious acts that they have planned. but my other message is this. we can no longer afford in this nation to have our elected leaders like the president of the united states sending not just winks and nods and frequently, you know, hear it called a dog whistle. it's not a dog whistle to these folks. it's literally a command to action for domestic terrorists and it needs to stop. we cannot have people in positions of authority like that

who are encouraging the work of people who wish to destroy this country. >> attorney general nessel, i appreciate your work. thank you very much. >> thanks for having me. up next, as the pandemic shows no signs of slowing down, i'll speak with bill gates, co-chair of the bill and melinda gates foundation, what's ahead and how we're going to cope with it.

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ "hmm's and ahh's" heard in-call. ♪ "hmm's and ahh's" and a majority of americans. say the vote for the next supreme court justice should wait till after the election. but instead of letting our voices be heard, trump and mcconnell are rushing it through and taking a short cut to the highest court in the land. there's a pandemic devastating every corner of the country, but they're just rushing to play politics with the court. it's a lifetime appointment, tell senators to do it right.

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more dangerous and corrupt president than trump. he's harming our basic values, giving rise to hate, and he's selling out america to big corporations. i'm working to protect immigrants, women, communities of color, and lgbtq people. and i'm making corporations like pg&e and insurance companies play by our rules. we need experienced leadership to wipe away trump's stain on america for good. the coronavirus death toll in the united states is now more than 212,000 people in this country. the total number of cases more than 7.5 million. staggering numbers, of course. there is precious little sign of things slowing down. add to that, president trump's

diagnosis, the high infection numbers, the overall lag in wide spred testing, contact tracing. certainly a recipe for concern in the fall and winter. bill gates joining us. searching for cures for this global health crisis and other global health crises. he joins me now. looking where the u.s. is in this pandemic. entering the winter, cases on the rise not just in small clusters but across most of the nation. how concerned are you about the months ahead? >> well, i'm very concerned. the forecast showed that deaths are going to go back up almost to the level they were in the spring. and, you know, it's -- people are going to be indoors more. the compliance with the distancing and the mask use is going down in many areas. it never got super good in some areas. and so except for the innovative tools that i'm sure we'll talk

about, this is going to be a very difficult fall because people, you know, the economic effects, the tiredness, the kids not being able to go to school, this continuation is a very difficult thing. >> you've talked about the -- some of the sophisticated tools, the therapeutics that -- that are coming and that some -- some are here. can you just talk a little bit about, i mean, let's talk about regeneron. you've been optimistic about it. it got obviously a big endorsement from president trump because he was able to receive it. he's calling it a cure. he's calling on regulators to give an emergency use authorization. do you support the idea of the emergency use authorization? and i assume it's not a cure. >> no, well, the word "cure" is a bit of an overpromise. that makes it sound it looks like it works for everyone and the whole concern about this disease should go away, and that's the last thing we want people to think about.

the antibodies, which is what regeneron is, that's always been the most promising therapeutic category. the other therapeutic category is the anti-virals like remdesivir has only had modest benefit. there may be one more of those, you know, plasma, you know -- still unproven. that looks like it will be a fairly slow track. so the most exciting thing that for many months our foundation and others have been working on and talking about are these mono clone antibodies. there are several companies, eli lilly, regeneron are going to be two of the first. later astrazeneca and revere. the supply should go up. we saw in the lily data that over 60% of the people who got it early -- there was a 60%

reduction in the number that needed to be hospitalized. now, as we get to larger numbers, our confidence in that will go up. >> so that's something that would be given to people early on after they test positive? >> yeah. so the dexamethazone, which is really the only significant intervention drug we have, is a late stage. in fact, it's a little confusing why in the case of president trump it -- that was given when it -- when it was. you know, it modulates the immune system which has a net benefit in late stage. the monoclone antibodies, if you test positive like he did and then your oxygen is going down and you're above 60, that is a perfect target for the monoclonal antibodies. eli lilly feels they can help patients with quite a bit less, more like 0.7 grams than the 8

grams that president trump got, and the lower the dose, of course, that means not just a few people, but lots of people, not just in the united states but elsewhere could get it. and so our foundation reserved factory capacity to make mo monoclonal antibodies about six months ago. with eli lilly, we're getting those in the factory now. if everything goes well, the cost of the intervention could be a few hundred dollar or under a few hundred dollars if everything goes well. we need to prove that quite a small dose, as low as 0.3 grams, is effective. >> i know the trump administration put limits on stem cell research. regeneron i believe uses em-bronic stem cells or it was developed with that use. has that been -- would that be an issue moving forward for widespread use and distribution of it?

>> well, not outside the united states, certainly. i don't know the facts on that. >> okay. >> you know, when there are -- when there is that type use, those are cell lines that are usually decades old, so it's not something that's connected to any current controversial activity. >> mm-hmm. >> you know? and it's very helpful for testing quite a few things in the -- both in the evacuates area and in the antibody area, but i don't know in this case exactly what happened there. >> right. doctor -- >> it is ironic, trump, when i met with him, the whole idea of vaccines, he was a vaccine skeptic and got me talking with people who just didn't believe in vaccines. now we need leadership to show that we're really not going to approve something until it's safe and, you know, the country really depends on getting back to normal on vaccine progress. >> yeah, i mean, that -- it's a huge concern about even when --

if there is -- when there is a evacuates, if there is a vaccine that works and it's able to be distributed, will people actually take it? you know, kamala harris was asked about this at the debate. she said if -- if, you know, dr. fauci and the cdc said take it, she would take it. the scientists said take it, she would. if president trump said take it and the scientists didn't, she wouldn't. what do you look for when deciding to take something or not? i assume you follow the science. >> sure. you know, it was bizarre that the white house was trying to block the fda from requiring two-month safety database and very, you know, they claim the companies were pushing that. there's no way that's true. and so it's really novel that you get political interference with a regulatory agency that has its integrity and independence. you know, we saw that with the

plasma announcement where they embarrassed themselves. with the vaccine, i don't think they'll make that mistake again. in fact, they stood up to the white house and the guidelines were updated, which is a -- a very positive thing. so, you know, the fda, including the outside experts, the companies, you know, i think the data will come out. not everyone will be willing to take it right away, but as they see the first 20% or 30% taking it and they see that they're getting a benefit and you're not reading about a lot of adverse side effect then i think more people will be willing. and, you know, we need to really drive this thing down to get well over 70%. so eventually it's got to be quite probably accepted. >> dr. rick brite, the former pandemic preparedness chief spoke today about the administration's honesty about the pandemic and what's

happening to scientists. i want to play some of that for our viewers and ask you about it. >> he has never told us the truth about the risk of the seriousness of this outbreak. he's not told us the truth about his status and when he was infected. you're right. when you hide the truth and you're not transparent, you're hiding something much worse. and by hiding that, by lying to the american public and not telling us the full truth, you're actually prolonging the duration and the impact of this pandemic. you're actually allowing more people to die. >> just the reputation of the cdc and other agencies, there is obviously extraordinary people, thousands of them who work at cdc and the fda and are experts in their field and it's, you know, the gold standard for -- for information on epidemics and the like. how does the reputation of these agencies, i mean, can it bounce back given all that's been going on and the political pressure that's been put on them? >> we need it to bounce back. and we'll have to do a po

post-mortem. no one expected the politician to grab the microphone in this way. the cdc is trained to talk to the public, tell them the truth, phrase it in a way that, you know, even though it's somewhat bad news, people get ready for this and they, you know, they made some testing mistakes early on, but then their voice really -- where is it? you don't see it hardly at all. and so when you listen to a politician who doesn't have the background in these things, of course, you know, that -- there's a tendency to think, well, what do the people who are expert, what do they think, what are they saying? someone who is willing to say, hey, we've got a big challenge that we're going to have to work on together, including changing our behavior, wearing masks being at that top of the list. so it's been amazing that dr.

fauci has been willing to speak out and, you know, well-admired for the role he's played. you know, thank goodness that there's at least some expertise getting through the -- the bureaucracy. >> you know, i just talked to chris murray, and -- on some of the projections and i think the latest one they're looking at is, like, 400,000 deaths in this country. i can't remember if it was by the end of january or the beginning of february or the beginning of january. but, i mean, that's -- that's an extraordinary number. do you think this is worse than the -- than the so-called spanish flu pandemic back in, you know, 1918? >> well, the spanish flu we had no ability to make therapeutics or to make a vaccine. and so eventually that had to develop herd immunity and it went through two very tough years, even a little bit of a

third year before it burnt out. and so the deaths are -- of that by the time it was done are much higher than we've had so far. >> yeah, it was like 675,000. >> if the vaccine works, we won't -- we won't suffer the millions of deaths in the u.s. that -- that the spanish flu caused. >> earlier today i spoke with a former director of the cdc, dr. jeffrey copeland for a town hall we're doing, airing this weekend. i asked him what life might look like once a vaccine is available and i just want to play what he said. >> the idea that we can just throw everything away and don't need those masks or the other actions that we've been taking and go back to an earlier era of how we lived is highly unlikely. the performance of the vaccines, some of them, may be helpful but not utterly a preventive or a curative, in which case, masks,

distancing, everything that we repeat over and over again will be part of our lives for some time to come. >> he also made the analogy when hiv was announced some 40 years ago, the secretary at hhs announced there would be a vaccine within a year and obviously 40 years later we still don't have one. do you think he's right that we go back to a maskless era? >> well, hiv is a very difficult target that mutates more. and dr. fauci actually did tell people who are giving overoptimistic projections that he didn't think that that was likely. so this is a very different target. but the statement that was made is -- is quite valid in that -- for three reasons. first of all, the early vaccines, although they'll meet a threshold of effectiveness, that effectiveness won't be super high. so we might have to wait until a second generation vaccine. second, you've got to get very

big coverage of that vaccine, probably over 70%. and third, whenever the virus is outside the u.s., we cannot block things so that it won't come in. so you see countries that have actually done quite well, whether germany, south korea, australia. they are having these reinfections. and so the things that are great risk like crowded public events, restaurants, bars, those, we have a lot to do in terms of qualities of the vaccine coverage and global before you really are back to normal. some things, as the vaccine starts to roll out, we should be able to use that to let yuck people go back to school because that's such a priority. >> the gates foundation put out its annual goalkeepers report last month. and it's always fascinating to read.

it showed the effects of the coronavirus, that they've really stopped 20 years of progress toward the u.n. sustainable development goals and that by nearly every indicator the world has actually regressed. it's not just directly coronavirus related. it's all the things that aren't being done because of coronavirus. the distribution of other vaccines and other treatments and hiv drugs. it's an incredibly sobering assessment. >> yeah. sadly, the disruption of the health system broadly in africa because their direct coronavirus deaths are still luckily not gigantic outside of south africa, these disruptions to the health system are accounting for a lot of the deaths. so the number of deficits we've created with this are very large. our goalkeeper's report is mostly well known for being optimistic because all the years up till now we document the slow

but positive progress to reducing malnutrition and childhood death. so most of the time, once a year you can say wow, humanity, it's better off today by these key measures. but the pandemic has been a gigantic setback even in areas that are very indirect people might not be fully aware of. >> just bottom line, someone who walks into this tonight, a year from now do you think they'll have to still wear a mask when they go outside? or should still wear a mask when they go outside? >> i think if theaters are opening and you're going into a theater, if there's some spacing at sports events, i don't think we will have done the elimination. that is, i think somewhere in the world for the next two years there will be this virus. so a lot of the things that can

cause superspreading events will be very restricted even a year from now. but i do think that we're likely to have a vaccine, we'll have some coverage, and so certain activities like k through 12, high school, a lot of colleges, that will be able to get back starting in the summer and even more as we move into the fall. >> bill gates, it's always just so great to have you. i always learn a lot. i really appreciate it. thank you. >> thank you. >> quick programming note, there's going to be a special edition of our cnn global town hall, coronavirus facts and fears, saturday at 9:00 p.m. eastern. sanjay gupta and i join five former directors of the centers for disease control. they'll be on hand to answer your questions about the coronavirus. there's breaking news now on hurricane delta. the national hurricane center says the storm's continued to strengthen. it's now a category 3. where it's headed and the latest forecast when we continue.

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breaking news as we end this busy thursday. forecasters say hurricane delta strengthened to a category 3 with sustained winds of 115 miles per hour as it heads toward the louisiana coast. it's aiming for the same general area hit hard by hurricane laura just six weeks ago. tom sater's in the weather center for us. what is the latest? when and where is this going to hit? >> currently, anderson, it's

about 300 miles south of cameron, louisiana. it is growing not only in intensity, a category 3 as you mentioned, that's a major hurricane, but it's getting larger and that's a big concern. it was at one time a category 4, the strongest greek lettered name hurricane just before cancun where it made landfall. it dropped in intensity to a strong category 2. structural damage, power outages throughout the region. the good news is they were able to evacuate everyone. the tourists were given one hour to pack up their things and they flew them out of there. no fatalities there. but now it's growing in its size. the wind field is expanding, which means it's going to affect a larger area. but the models have been in crazy agreement. all really pretty much confined to the same region. so we're going to lean into that. and these warnings you see here in red, tropical storm warnings in blue, look very familiar. to this day, six weeks ago it was hurricane laura. tropical storm force winds on the coast by morning. they'll move up. notice houston, you're going to be buffeted by some of these as well as new orleans. so that is a big concern. strong winds at landfall, we

believe about 7, maybe give or take an hour it could drop to a category 2, anderson, but it also could stay as a major category 3. >> just how historic has this hurricane season been? >> this -- well, i mean, take a look at this. first, the state of louisiana's had three named storms make landfall. tomorrow will be the fourth. that is unprecedented. it never happened before. hurricane laura's path in yellow and delta could be at landfall within 10 or 15 miles. a very vulnerable area. there are thousands of buildings that have blue tarps. they had 30,000 homes destroyed six weeks ago. another 35,000 that have damage. they're still building the power grid. 20,000 people, anderson, now are still living in the hotels. so it's extremely vulnerable. and if you live at our season, we have had nine storms. that's the record so far. named storms to make landfall in the u.s. that r0rd goecord goes back to . we're going to break it

tomorrow. right now delta is the 25th named storm of the year. the record's 28 from 2005. and we have 7 1/2 more weeks to go. >> tom sater, appreciate it. thank you. we'll be tracking it. the news continues. let's hand it over to chris for "cuomo prime time." chris? >> all right. thank you, anderson. i am chris cuomo and welcome to "prime time." so tell me, can any of you still be okay with what's going on? the fbi told us today a bunch of terrorists were plotting to kill the democratic governor of michigan. 13 guys so far. and they say there may be more still out there. governor whitmer is with us tonight. and the scariest part of her story may be the reaction to her calls for help from the president and the white house. these are homegrown terrorists, according to the fbi, angry white guys, spun up to action in michigan