>> to learn more about scott's program and to see if phil made it through the class, go to cnnheroes.com. thanks for watching, everyone. our coverage continues. talk about insatiable appetites. for the president, it seems, one superspreader event just isn't enough. john berman here in for anderson. we are also covering hurricane delta as it makes landfall on the louisiana gulf coast. you are looking at lake charles and we'll bring you a life report from there, very shortly. we begin, though, with the manmade disaster now unfolding as the president of the united states grapples with rising covid numbers, falling poll numbers, and what could be fading prospects for re-election. for days, now, the president, who, after all, has the poker face of a neon sign, has been telegraphing his frustration, at all of it, along with his craving for the adulation he just can't get from taping infomercials on the south lawn. so, tomorrow, if all goes to plan, hundreds of supporters

will be standing on the grass there. hundreds. the president, we're told, will be up on the balcony, so he will be a safe distance from them, which is more than they will be from each other. at the white house, no less. hundreds of people. two weeks, to the day, since the ceremony for amy coney barrett, where all the people you see in the picture, highlighted, have since contracted covid. and today, dr. anthony fauci called the affair what it truly was. >> we had a superspreader event in the white house, and it was in a situation where people were crowded together and were not wearing masks. so, the data speak for themselves. >> a superspreader event, says dr. fauci. to which, his fellow task force member, dr. deborah birx added, and i am quoting here, the only thing that will prevent the next wave is us. is us doing the responsible thing in public spaces and private spaces. sounds like she didn't get the memo from a certain commander in chief or the note from his

doctor clearing him for public appearances, even though the cdc says that patients who have been admitted to a hospital and given oxygen may need to isolate for up to 20 days. as for the rest of the content, well, cnn chief medical correspondent, dr. sanjay gupta, who joins us in just a minute, had this to say to anderson last night. >> there's no temperature on here, for somebody who has an infection, and that's key because that's the -- not having a temperature is one of the -- one of the criteria for starting to come out of isolation. they don't even mention the temperature here. instead, they say that he has a trajectory of -- he has advanced diagnostics in the right trajectory. i -- i -- i don't even know what that means. i mean, what -- what tests? are those tests? so, it's purposely vague and -- and it's disappointing because, again, if you want to -- if you want to present information, then do it. otherwise, you're presenting this stuff that's sort of gibberish and hard to translate. >> bottom line, we don't know the president's medical

condition. we don't know if he tested negative for covid recently since leaving the hospital. he evaded that question last night on fox and he had to stop twice to clear his throat. now, it might be academic for him, from a medical standpoint. but not for dozens or hundreds of others who would be helped by contact tracing. and would also clue the public in, as to whether he knowingly kept campaigning and holding events while infected. again, today, the white house stonewalled. >> she says you don't -- you said you don't have that. you don't know? or you don't want to say? >> so, we don't have that. there is -- well, i -- i don't, personally, know. >> right. what does that mean? >> there are -- >> have you asked? i think wednesday, you said you were going to look into that. >> right. so, hallie, the -- the president doesn't check all of his hipaa rights at the door just when he becomes president. the doctors, obviously, share fulsome information with the

president. the president shares a great deal of information with the american public. >> he said a lot more, after that. but never answered the question. and wouldn't you think, if everything is going well and all the tests are coming back great, wouldn't you think this president, of all people, would be eager to have it out there? wouldn't he be shouting it from the nearest balcony, at the nearest superspreader site? well, lacking a balcony and crowd, today, the president went on rush limbaugh, who provided him with a surreal and phony substitute. >> and greetings to you, music lovers, thrill seekers, and conversationalists all across the fruited plain. welcome to the rush limbaugh program. mr. president, it is a distinct honor and privilege to have you with us. and i want you to do something for me, sir. >> go ahead. >> i want you to imagine you have just landed in a gleaming, majestic, air force one, to the largest rally in history. instead of thousands cheering as you walk up to the stage, there

are millions and millions of patriots out there, right now, anxiously awaiting to hear from you. >> so, the president needed his sugar. and even though it was only splenda, the dose was enough to get him talking for the next 111 minutes. he aired many of the usual grievances, made many of the same false allegations about mail-ina mail-in voting. what stood out, though -- the russia probe would not be out before election day. >> if that's the case, i -- i'm very disappointed. i think it's a terrible thing. and i'll say to his face. see, this is what i mean with the republicans. they don't play the tough game. they don't play the tough game. if this were the other side, you would've had 25 people in jail for the rest of their lives with what we found. >> so, there he is. directly, framing, what is supposed to be the impartial

administration of justice in the country, as just another tool to be used in hardball politics. look. if 240 years has taught us anything, it's that politics ain't bean bag. but by the same token, politics ain't that. not here. but if that kind of thinking and talking concerns you, as it should concern us all, there is another way of looking at it. for as much as the president seems to be dreaming of a brave, new world. so much of his focus is in the re rear-view mirror. not on the election the polls suggest he is losing but the election he won and the candidate he beat. listen to secretary of state mike pompeo today. >> we've got the e-mails. we're getting them out. we're going to get all this information out so the american people can see it. you'll remember, there was classified information on a private server. should have never been there. hillary clinton should never have done that. it was unacceptable behavior. it's not the kind of thing that leaders do. >> the president has the authority to declassify anything he wants. all authority is to him.

could he declassify it and order it released fepif he wanted to if he ordered? >> absolutely. we're going to get there. we are going to get this information out so the american people can see it. >> boy. that's really going to sink hillary clinton's chances. but it has nothing to do with 213,000 americans dead of covid. nothing to do with millions of out of work, kids not in school. the president, about to hold another superspreader event. and frankly, nothing to do with the election. this election. less than a month away. more, now, from cnn's jim acosta at the white house. jim, this mass event on the lawn. what kind of safety protocols is the white house going to have in place? because we're just learning that, what, 2,000 people have been invited? >> that's right, john. we're not sure how many of those people will actually show up. you know, there -- there is, sort of, a buyer-beware element to this event on the south lawn of the white house tomorrow. we are told about hundreds of people should show up and in terms of safety precautions, we're told by the white house

that they do plan on doing coronavirus tests here. it will be those rapid tests that are, sometimes, unreliable. they are -- they are going to require people, they say, to wear masks. of course, they don't have a great track record, in that regard. i can tell you, i saw administration officials walking around on the grounds today not wearing their masks. and so on. so this is the potential. i don't think you are overstating it, john. there is the potential that this will be yet another superspreader event, even on the same day that dr. anthony fauci is talking about the last superspreader event at the white house. >> he plans on holding a rally in florida on monday as well. what can you tell us about that? >> right. that's going to be in sanford, florida, in orlando. as you know, john, central florida is going to be hugely important, if donald trump wants to win the state of florida. that's crucial to his quest for re-election. but we are hearing, you know, from our sources that, potentially, the president could have an event every day next week or that he is striving to

have an event every day next week. even though, tonight, john, keep in mind we have not gotten a letter from dr. sean conley, the white house physician. we have no indication from the president's team of doctors, as to whether or not he is in any condition to do any of this. it just seems they are going to throw him out on the balcony. and try to get the band back together. even though, he could potentially still be spreading the coronavirus. >> jim acosta at the white house. please, stay safe there. appreciate you being with us. >> will do. >> joining us now, david gergen, cnn senior political analyst, along with abby phillip, and cnn chief medical correspondent, dr. sanjay gupta. sanjay, two weeks to the day after an event that dr. fauci has now called a superspreader event at the white house. a mass gathering, at the same place. medically speaking, how reckless is this? >> well, it's -- it's -- you know, it's a gathering of people in the middle of a pandemic. it happens to be at a residence where they just had a superspreader event. there may still be people who

have more recently contracted the virus, even beside the president, who could be contagious. so, you know, it's -- it was reckless before the president got hospitalized for covid. and it -- it is, still, reckless. i maean, you know, it doesn't matter what the group of people are coming together for. the virus doesn't care. it just loves the idea of people getting close together like that because it can jump from host to host to host. so it's a terrible idea. and again, even if the president is distanced, what about the other people? the white house staff that may have been exposed to this virus, even over the last couple of days now? i mean, we just have no idea what sort of protections they have had. >> based on what jim acosta just reported, sanjay, what's your take on protocols in place for keeping people safe there? >> well, i mean, you know, if you think about it, we've sort of gone through this a few times. right? i mean, testing is -- testing can be very important, overall. but the idea of using it like this, and then telling -- you know, making it okay that people don't have to wear masks.

they can not abide by the basic, public health stuff. it doesn't -- that doesn't work that way. the real value of a test is if it comes back positive. then, you know, you need to isolate. if it comes back negative, first of all, it could be a false negative. but if it comes back negative, you still have to abide by those public health guidelines. it's just that you don't have to isolate. you know, you could still come in contact with the virus or you, yourself, could be carrying the virus and the test just hasn't picked it up yet. >> david gergen, i just saw for the first time that 2,000 people were invited to this event. 2,000 people. and if that's going to be the number, even if it's half that, they're going to be packed to j >> it's morally reckless. you want to come to the white house, you can see me, you can see me talking. but you may put your health at risk. we had over 30 people who have come to white house events since

the president was hospitalized who have now come down with covid. over 20 people are in the president's inner circle. how many more people must be struck down by this before the president comes to his senses? it really raises the question, john, as he comes out of the hospital just five days ago, whether his judgment is impaired. certainly, being up on a balcony or mussolini and how they took to the balcony. this has all the makings of what strong men do and it's very, very disturbing. >> abby phillip, is there no one in that building who can tell the president this is a bad idea or steer him in a different direction? >> well, clearly not. i mean, the president has done a number of things that don't make any sense, for someone who is recovering from a contagious virus. the -- not the least of which is, you know, coming home from the hospital. immediately, going up to the top of the balcony to record a promo video and taking his mask off in the presence of other people. and then, he insists on working from the oval office when, as president, he can literally work

from anywhere. look. this is a president, who wants to do what he wants to do. and he is surrounded by aides who will let him. and on top of that, i think what we will see tomorrow and with a lot of the other events next week is just a president who wants adulation. he wants large crowds. as many people as possible. but there are real, potential consequences to that, as sanjay pointed out. and we just learned, today, that, you know, nine people who attended his -- one of his rallies in minnesota have contracted the coronavirus. i mean, people are, in fact, getting sick. and this is not registering to the president or to people around him. but what's politically reckless about this event tomorrow is that all it does is just remind people that the president wants to flout the rules that other people are living by. >> and, sanjay, as abby said, it's not just the event at the white house tomorrow. it's a rally in florida, on monday. jim acosta reports the president wants to do one in person, every day this week. we saw a rally with donald trump jr. in florida yesterday. people were packed inside a

room, unmasked, there. even if they're outside, they're not wearing masks, and they're sitting together closely. this just seems to completely flout the cdc guidelines, in the middle of a pandemic. >> yeah. i mean, history is not going to judge these events very kindly, at all, john. as you know, you know, the thing about florida, too, is that florida is a place that is essentially opened up. i mean, you know, the pandemic is over, i think, as far as, you know, governor desantis is concerned. and you know, i mean, that makes it much more likely that, if you were going to go to a rally like that, that you are going to come in contact with someone who is carrying the virus. you know, you could start to actually do the math on this but when you start looking at a certain trajectory of viral spread, it starts to really amplify itself. so, it's no longer linear growth. it goes into exponential growth. and these rallies, as we have seen at the white house, can turn into a superspreader event. many, many people, then being infected, going back to their

homes, going back to their communities. it's -- it's -- it's a huge problem. i mean, we're, understandably, making a big deal about the -- the -- the remarkable pace of medical innovation with this vaccine and it's worth celebrating. but we can't get the basics right. if we can't get the basics right, the hard stuff's going to be really hard to -- to get done. >> david gergen, not for nothing. this is a political event at the white house tomorrow. which i mean, the president can't technically violate the hatch act. but really, we saw a convention speech there. this just goes to show he will let nothing get in the way of busting norms. >> he's obsessed with winning re-election. it's all about his self-respect. it's whether he's going to be humiliated or not. and -- and i understand why his strategists think, hey, you got to go to florida. you know, we -- biden has inched ahead there. if you lose florida, there's just almost no path to the presidency so you got to go to florida. we can understand why he is being told that. but he's the guy who has to make the calls and makes final decisions. it's up to him. and that's why i say when his

judgment is impaired, i think that's increasingly dangerous for the country. and i do think, john, increasingly, it becomes apparent that before people go to the polls on november 3rd, both biden and trump must come forward with their health records. it's imperative that people can turn to -- can -- can get those records, turn to sanjay and say, what does this all mean ng, san? >> to abby's point, it's not just bad public health. but it's hard to see it as anything other than bad politics, also. why keep showing this picture to people? sanjay, big picture on the pandemic now. we are seeing record-high hospitalizations in ten states. we are seeing case numbers rise. how concerning is this? >> this is particularly concerning, john. i mean, you know, one thing we talk about this in terms of people who have been infected. people who have, sadly, died. people who have recovered. but, you know, the impact, in terms of what happens to people in the interim. you know, people get sick and -- and you start to project what

are the hospital bed requirements going to become as we go into the winter months? and what do we really have? so, take a look here. we found this sort of buried into the ihme models. but what you find is that purple line there sort of shows what the hospital bed sort of demand may be as we go into the end of the year. when you do the math on that, you find that it starts to significantly exceed what we actually have in terms of hospital beds. i think we have one more graphic here, if we can just show in the country, right now, where are we, right now, with hospital capacity? there you go. the darker the color, the fuller the hospitals are in those states. some of them, well over 70%, john. and we haven't really even gotten into the bulk of flu season, yet. add into that, covid, and we're running into trouble. a lot of planners from around the country have been calling me, talking about this. they say they are looking at convention halls and buildings. it's going to be cold outside. they got to find places that could potentially serve as hospital facilities. i know we've gone through this

before. we talked about it back in april. we are going to talk about it again in the next few weeks. >> i shudder to think where it will be one week from now. david gergen, abby phillip, sanjay, thank you very much. so, someone who's seen the president up close, day in and day out, what tony schwartz makes of him now. and throughout the hour, live from the gulf coast as hurricane delta, you can see it right there, comes ashore. with this seal, this restaurant is committing to higher levels of cleanliness. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ the expertise that helps keep hospitals clean, is helping keep businesses clean too. look for the ecolab science certified seal. i am totally blind. and non-24 can throw my days and nights out of sync,

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so not only are we talking about the president's eagerness to hold what could be another superspreader event, a huge one. there is also a sudden eagerness to make a deal with congressional democrats on another round of economic relief. that's after walking away from the talks on tuesday. sure doesn't sound like anything for the pages for the art of the deal. but we've got the book's author, tony schwartz, with us in any case. most recently, he's written "dealing with the devil, my mother, trump, and me." i have been dying to talk to you about this because the last week, we have seen things i think to the layman are heaard explain. a losing candidate needs more debates, not fewer. he walked away from a debate. the president walked away from stimulus and negotiations that might help him politically. unilaterally, walked away, announced it, and now has come crawling back. you say he is in pure fight-or-flight mode. can you explain that? >> well, what's happened is that

he's -- he's feeling a sense of terror. he believes -- i believe that he believes he's going to lose this election. and that's making him crazy. it's -- he's fearful of the loss. he's fearful of being seen as a loser. he is fearful of losing his power and his sense of control. and he lives to be in control. so, this is a time when he, if you think about how you feel when you're really anxious or you're really upset. you lose connection to your brain. specifically, to your prefrontal cortex. and what happens is you're driven by your emotions, by our amygdala. that's exactly what is happening with him. and all those things you mentioned can be explained by the fact that there isn't anything rational going on. there's simply survival instincts playing out. >> so, he does or doesn't think these decisions will help him? because that's what i can't figure out, right? he's -- this debate, you would

think, would be one of the few things that might be able to get him back in this race. but he walks away. so, why do something that will ultimately hurt you? >> so, he does it out of an impulse, as he does almost everything. and the impulse is to prove how powerful he is. so, i'll walk away from the debate. and then, he gets flooded with evidence that's not a good idea. and so, he flips, again, and says, well, i'll -- i'll do the other debate. or, you know, some way of trying to -- trying to flip the equation, after he's done it. but it's the impulse that arises, first. and the impulse is always, always to feel better about himself. >> incidentally, how capable do you think he would be or will he be maybe in the last debate that would be two weeks from now in behaving differently than he did in the first debate? >> that's a great question. and i think -- i think, actually, he will be hurt by it.

it's sort of a no-win situation because, on the one hand, if he doesn't debate, he's losing perhaps the only opportunity he has to, once again, make his case to the public. on the other hand, if he does do the debate and we look at what's happened before and how upset he is, the odds are he will do further damage to himself. so, i think what he's feeling is that this is slipping away from him, day by day. and he sees it as a verdict on his life. >> what about the stimulus negotiations? what do they tell you? the fact that he walked away, and is now going back? i mean, it's not the strongest negotiating position. >> well, forget that. he wasn't thinking about negotiating position. he walked away, once again, because he wanted to demonstrate that he could do whatever he wanted to, dammit. he came back because, once again, there was a terrible response, first of all, from the

stock market. but also, from, you know, people he respects. or if he doesn't respect, he thinks that they're on -- that they're on his side. and he flipped because they made the case, and he then, little quieter, internally, he then recognized, oh, my god. giving this stimulus is a positive. for me. but when he said i'm walking away, he wasn't thinking. >> what's your take on the event tomorrow at the white house? inviting 2,000 people to the site, essentially of a superspreader event two weeks ago, where he will address them from the balcony? >> that i felt what i'm about to say for a long time but i've never actually said it out loud. he's g he's jim jones now. he's inviting people to the white house to, you know, drink the kool-aid and die. i mean, this is where we've gotten. he has a cult following. they are brainwashed. his own -- the people around him are brainwashed. and, quite frankly, john, if i

were standing across from him right now, i would be frightened. he never frightened me. but i would be frightened because you watch what he did with biden. where he just rolled on him. he just -- he just kept coming at him. that is -- and i had this experience. very, very hard to resist. so, he's going to bring in those people. and he is going to subject them to, you know, a terrible outcome. >> you wrote, on twitter recently, and i follow you, as many people do. you said trump seems determined to ensure his defeat by a landslide. what do you think the next 25 days are going to look like? >> i -- i quote william goldman, the screenwriter on that. nobody knows anything. it will change 15 times. there will be many, many more unexpected events that we'll all

ju jump up and startle that. i do believe -- nobody wants to say this and i apologize for -- for being the exception. but i do believe he's going to lose. i do believe he's going to lose, by a huge margin. democrats don't want to say that. but i do believe that's what's going to happen. i think he is right. it has slipped away. >> tony schwartz, we'll see. 25 days left. as always, we appreciate your insight. thanks so much for joining us. >> thank you. breaking news, straight ahead. hurricane delta slamming into the louisiana coast, as we speak. only six weeks after another, big storm. hurricane laura drove through the region. we have an update when "360" continues. instantly clear every day congestion with vicks sinex saline nasal mist. for drug free relief that works fast. vicks sinex. instantly clear everyday congestion.

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breaking news. just a short time ago, hurricane delta made landfall in louisiana. 200,000 now without power there, as well as texas with powerful winds and storm surge battering the gulf coastline. this is the fourth, the fourth, major storm to hit louisiana in the last year. martin savidge joins us, now, from lake charles, louisiana, with the very latest. martin, man, it looks wet there. how are things looking? >> it's pretty bad. the good news is, of course, the storm went to the east of here which, as you know, john, means we're not getting the worst of the winds. and in theory, now that delta's come ashore, things should get easy. but it's always in increments, over time. still, getting hammered here. heavy rain that's been continuing, well, loalmost sinc noon today but the winds. the winds have been extreme.

not necessarily high-force hurricane winds but you got to remember. lake charles was hammered, devastated, by hurricane laura, six weeks ago. and now, it's being hit, again, by a category 2 storm. and in many cases, the buildings were so weakened because of that hurricane laura, 95% of the buildings and homes, the mayor says, have been damaged in some way. their ability to stand up to a second blow like this is really in question. that's why they began mandatory evacuations wednesday. telling people it would just simply not be safe to stay in a home that could come apart in the middle of a storm weakened by the first hurricane. and then, there's the debris. there is tons and tons and tons of debris. we were in the neighborhood, earlier. it would be suicide to be in there, now, with all the glass, with all of the wood, and with all the nails. all of that's flying through the

air. it would be lethal to anyone walking in the streets. the circumstances for this city are unique and that's why they are very worried about how it will eventually end and what it will look like in the morning. they had only just restored power. now, as you point out, power is out in many places. wind continues to howl. and the storm that started with laura, anyway continues winow c. this community is suffering. john. >> i got to say, martin, it sounds just ferocious there right now. if you can still hear me, you mentioned that another storm passed just a few weeks ago and there were still tarps out on many of the buildings. what did they do to get ready for this? >> well, the first thing they did was tell people to leave and they were absolutely adamant and serious about you have to go. and many did. but there were others suffering from evacuation fatigue. they didn't want to leave. i talked to families who stayed behind. i have no idea how they are handling things, now.

but the debris piles were 5 and 6-feet high, all along the street in which they lived. imagining all of that material and this kind of wind does make it very frightening. so, i think, for a lot of people here, they got out. for those who stayed behind, they've got to be rethinking that decision right now. but there's nothing, of course, they can do till morning and when things subside. >> martin savidge. you and your team, please, stay safe. thank you so much for being there for us. for more on the storm now, let's go to tom sadr in the weather center. tom, what is the latest on where this hurricane is headed? and at this point, how strong is it? >> well t it dropped now to category 1, as expected. it's typical when they interact with land and make landfall. where martin is in lake charles, in just the last 30 minutes, the wind gusts went from 75 miles per hour to 95. so i think those of us who are going to be seeing video out of this region tomorrow, for most of us, we're not going to know the difference between what is

new damage and what is old damage. they will know because they've been spending the days and weeks trying to rebuild. but we're down to category 1. hurricane delta. only the second time we had to get into the greek alphabet. the last time was 2005. and already, it's setting records. not only is delta the first haur e hurrica hurricane with a name from the greek alphabet to make landfall in the u.s. but it only took 30 hours. making landfall, south of cancun as a category 2. tourists had one hour to get to the airport. no fatalities. but we knew it was going to grow in size. before it hit cancun, the eye was a pinhole. only 4 miles wide. earlier today, 46 miles. so that wind field is broad. back edges now starting to dry up. that's some very good news but we have our category 1. incredible. we've got now two within six weeks hitting the exact same area. this is just unheard of as far as that time limit. heavy rainfall is falling.

we have got over 9-10 inches. we will see more. here's where lake charles is. so they're on the back edge of the eyewall. but lafayette, home about 130,000, are going to get into it. only 10 to 13 miles between laura and delta's landfall. wide pattern of wind damage. over 200,000 without power. that will grow, through the night. as we watch the wind gusts move up, look it. 55 in alexandria. 41 in baton rouge. that's tropical storm jackson. 52. unbelievable. this is the 25th named storm for this season, john. the record is 28, from 2005. and we have seven and a half more weeks of the season to go. watch out for the tornados tomorrow. parts of louisiana, overnight, in toward the panhandle of florida, north into georgia. incredible season and it's not over, yet. >> 2020. tom sater, thank you very much. we are going to have more on the storm, later in the program. up next, the latest on the bizarre, terrifying plot to kidnap michigan governor gretchen whitmer. and the virtual silence from the trump administration on the

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the unfair money bail system. he, accused of rape. while he, accused of stealing $5. the stanford rapist could afford bail; got out the same day. the senior citizen could not; forced to wait in jail nearly a year. voting yes on prop 25 ends this failed system, replacing it with one based on public safety. because the size of your wallet shouldn't determine whether or not you're in jail. vote yes on prop 25 to end money bail. arrested on state terrorism charges and other felony counts in the plot to kidnap michigan governor gretchen whitmer. they were arraigned today. a total of 13 were charged after a joint operation with the fbi and michigan state police. cnn's sara sidner in grand rapids, michigan, for us

tonight. sara, you have been covering this from the beginning, doing a wonderful job. and you met with someone, today, who knew one of the suspects well. what did he tell you? >> yeah. brian titus owns a vacuum shop here in grand rapids. he says he was as surprised a anyone when the fbi ended up raiding his business because the person who was living there, who was a longtime friend of his, who had been living there just for a little while after he said got kicked out of his girlfriend's place. and so, he gave him a place to stay. he had a job. his dogs were there with him. turns out, he is one of the leaders, according to the fbi, of this plot. >> he was staying in the basement. >> how do you get there? is there -- >> right there. that's the secret passageway. it's not a secret passage. it's a basement. >> oh, i see. >> they're talking about the wood. the reason why i put the wood on there is case the dog i had to

go somewhere, put him in there so he wouldn't ruin the carpet. but that's a basement where he stayed. and he was only going to stay there till 1 november. >> why did you decide it was time for him to go? did you notice any kind of activity? >> buying stuff on amazon. i wasn't stupid. i was in the marine corps for 12 years. >> were there -- was he buying ammo? >> i don't know if he was buying ammo. he was buying more like attachments for like an ar-15. and he was buying, like, food. and i'm not stupid. i was in the marine corps. so, that -- i told him he had to go. >> but, before he actually left, he says they -- they arrested him and 12 others. he talked about the plot and the fbi talked about this plot that really centered around trying to kidnap governor -- the governor, gretchen whitmer, here of michigan. but there were other things that were so disturbing, beyond even

the kidnapping plot. also, the fbi saying they were planning on storming the capitol. that they were planning on potentially using explosives. that they had actually fashioned some explosives, and they were talking about potentially blowing up a bridge to try to keep police from being able to get to the governor, when they tried to kidnap her, according to the complaint. they, also, you know, sort of talk about some of the things that these men were saying to each other. but certainly, 13 men, now, charged in this case. some, with state terrorism charges. some, with federal conspiracy to -- to commit kidnapping charges. very serious charges. and a really scary time, obviously, for those in the government, here. some of the democrats saying they are terrified that the law still allows to bring guns into the state capitol. and we saw those pictures of people, you know, standing outside of the capitol this year, and trying to get into the capitol, armed to the teeth.

they are saying they want that to change. but so far, the law stands. >> sara sidner, as we said, terrific reporting. thank you so much for being there for us. really appreciate it. so even though the trump administration's justice department was heavily vested, so far, attorney general william barr has not commented on it. and the only thing president trump has said publicly, other than to condemn governor whitmer for her remarks criticizing him has been to wonder why he hasn't been thanked. perspective now from andrew mccabe. and myles taylor, former homeland security chief of staff in the trump administration. also, cnn analyst. andy, i want to start with you. attorney general william barr has traveled up and down the country to appear in public for any event that has to do with condemning or cracking down on leftist violence. he's held briefings. he's appeared in -- you know, in settings condemning urban violence, as well. but not only did he not travel to michigan to be on camera

here, but he hasn't briefed the public, at all. hasn't said anything in public, at all, about a plot to kidnap a sitting governor. what does that tell you? >> john, thanks for having me. it is really, really puzzling. i can tell you, from having had the experience of overseeing these sorts of investigations, for years. and also, from having had to brief many attorneys general on exactly these sorts of operations. i can tell you, there is no way the attorney general wasn't briefed on this investigation, as it went forward. if the fbi worked a case in which the governor was the intended victim of a kidnapping and they didn't tell the attorney general. i mean, that is a heads-will-roll moment. so, if you assume, for the sake of the argument, that he knew about it, then it's the only possibility was he was either unwilling or unable to come forward and talk about this case yesterday. and as you mentioned, north sth

the type of case that, in the past, an attorney general would travel to the site of the arrest or travel to the venue where it's being brought to court to appear on stage in the press conference with the u.s. attorneys. so it's very strange that we haven't heard anything from attorney general barr in the last day or so. >> yeah. you say he is either unwilling or unable. it may be unwilling. so, myles, why not take the opportunity to condemn domestic terror? why not take a public stand against this type of extremism? for the attorney general? or the president? the president's done all these cable television interviews, and really just complained about not getting credit. and he's criticized governor whitmer. so, what are we to make of this? >> well, look. i think andy said it. the operative word is puzzling. this is completely puzzling and this is the type of case that we expected would ultimately happen if domestic terrorism went unchecked in this country. i mean, director mccabe was there at the same time as me,

when we saw a big uptick in this threat and his bureau and our department were flagging this for the white house, pretty actively, at the time period. again, at the time period, the isis threat was a bit higher but we saw the domestic terror threat ticking up. and we were worried the same remote radicalization we saw of isis fighters overseas, could potentially happen here in the united states by individuals motivated by racial supremacist groups and the like. they feared some of these individuals on the right would potentially, also, be some of their supporters. so, they didn't want to speak out against this because they were worried that, politically, it could be damaging to them. and you saw that today. as you know, rather than bill barr appearing publicly to talk about this. instead, you had the president dunking on the governor of michigan on twitter, instead of dealing with this problem. that's a really big concern and the president, his campaign message right now, is law and order. but what we have seen, right

now, in donald trump's america is lawlessness and disorder. that's not a political talking point. i think that's a direct result of his law enforcement policies and strategy, which we were consistently frustrated by at the department of homeland security. and which, now, are resulting in things like the case that was just announced yesterday. >> myles, >> miles, when you would raise about domestic terrorist groups, what would the white house say? >> i'll tell you point blank. they told us not to talk about it. in fact, as we were developing the administration's counterterrorism strategy, we were told the focus needed to be on islamist terrorist groups overseas, and we shouldn't be talking about, quote, right-wing extremists here in the united states. there was a very clear signal sent from aides that reported directly to the president that this should not be a focus. now, that didn't stop either director mccabe's bureau or our department from focusing on the threat. we focused on the threat, and we doubled down on the threat. but the problem is if the white house itself isn't going to

coordinate those department and agencies to step up with more people, more resources, more attention, then the threat isn't going to get the level of response that it deserves, and it didn't. >> andy, what do these extremist groups, these would-be domestic terrorists hear in the silence from william barr? what do they hear in the president's unwillingness to openly denounce this type of extremism? >> well, john, you can't overstate the significance of how domestic extremists and extremists of all stripes truly are very closely watching the media coverage of the threat, the media coverage of the things they in their groups are doing. they are looking exactly for things like the communications they are subtly getting from the president now. i am convinced that people on the far right, the right-leaning extremist groups, the

anti-government groups, the boogaloo boys, all those starts of groups, they are watching the president's very careful but clear desire to avoid condemning them at any turn, and they see that as a signal of approval. they see that as a signal of "we finally have one on our side." you saw the reaction from the proud boys the day after the president essentially gave them a shout-out in the debate. it is a very positive, energizing thing that they get, and that is exactly the sort of trigger that could cause some of these groups to act. >> andy, i'm sure you've still got friends in the service and the fbi. what are they telling you about their concerns for the next 25 days or maybe longer for this election? >> john, people are buckling in and getting ready for a very bumpy ride. you know, look, we had great concerns about how particularly the white supremist community would react to the inauguration of president obama, our first black president. and so we did a lot of work in

the months leading up to the inauguration, months leading up to the election and the inauguration, to watch those folks that we were concerned about, to make sure that we got in front of any terrorist planning. i am quite sure the fbi is doing that exact sort of work with these -- particularly these heavily armed militia groups and these right-leaning kind of white supremist organizations. the sad fact is there are very, very many of them. in michigan alone, we've heard numbers in the two to three dozens of organized militia groups just in the state of michigan. and they are all over the country now. this is a big challenge for the fbi and partners at dhs and other agencies to stay in front of. >> a point miles was making to me just this morning as well as the attorney general of michigan was making to me this morning. the scary thing, these 13 individuals, not alone, not at all. thank you both. great to see you tonight. >> thanks, john. we have a live update from

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we end tonight's program with one more look at hurricane delta. you're looking at live pictures right there, which just made landfall a short time ago. the number of those without power has increased substantially since our last report. now more than 330,000 people in louisiana and texas without power. let's go back to martin savage

live in lake charles. martin, checking back in with you. still just as wet. how are things looking? >> reporter: you know, john, i thought that when we'd come back, i would be able to tell you things have eased off in lake charles. they have not. the wind is still howling. we're still getting blasted by rain. of course this is an area that got slammed six weeks ago by hurricane laura, significantly weaken and damaging not just structures but trees. they only just got the power back. now they've lost the power again. we don't know about the water system. that was another major issue, and we know that many of the buildings are suffering damage again. the poor folks who made their way back just recently, they're now realizing that their homes are going to be in more potential danger. the amazing thing is there are still people who think they can go out in this storm. it is hard to imagine what we're going to find given all the debris that have been left on the streets by hurricane laura.

and that's the real fear. it had been the fear for the officials. it's the fear for those who stay behind. it all becomes airborne, dangerous, and potentially deadly. john. >> it will be hard to sort out the damage from this hurricane and the damage still on the ground from the last one. martin savage, please stay safe. before we go tonight, a brief programming note. be sure and watch a special saturday edition of cnn's global town hall, coronavirus facts and fears. anderson will anchor the program along with dr. sanjay gupta tomorrow night, 9:00 p.m. eastern time. the news continues, so let's hand it over to chris for "cuomo prime time." thanks, john. have a great weekend. i am chris cuomo and welcome to "prime time." the proposition before us is clear. trump needs to put up or stay put. the president won't show you a negative covid test. he just gave an interview where he said things that make no sense about his condition. he's clear from covid, but when you hear his explan