it had been the fear for the officials. it's the fear for those who stay behind. it all becomes airborne, dangerous, and potentially deadly. john. >> it will be hard to sort out the damage from this hurricane and the damage still on the ground from the last one. martin savage, please stay safe. before we go tonight, a brief programming note. be sure and watch a special saturday edition of cnn's global town hall, coronavirus facts and fears. anderson will anchor the program along with dr. sanjay gupta tomorrow night, 9:00 p.m. eastern time. the news continues, so let's hand it over to chris for "cuomo prime time." thanks, john. have a great weekend. i am chris cuomo and welcome to "prime time." the proposition before us is clear. trump needs to put up or stay put. the president won't show you a negative covid test. he just gave an interview where he said things that make no sense about his condition. he's clear from covid, but when you hear his explanation, you will know it is a bunk.

now, is there a good reason for him to not show you test results? no. but there are a lot of bad reasons. mainly he wants to have another white house event after the last one became a super-spreader event that took down a good part of his team, not to mention his wife. and before you feign ignorance of the reality, we don't know that it was -- yes, we do. doctors fauci and birx said clearly -- fauci said the rose garden event was a super-spreader. just look at the data. birx said the only way to avoid more is to take the right measures, or you can double down on dumb. guess what trump did? he is actually inviting 2,000 guests to the white house, the scene of the covid contagion, tomorrow. there's a case cluster there. 2,000 people. they're supposed to bring masks,

not required to wear them. and will be subject to temperature checks, though not all covid cases involve fever. can you imagine going to a tightly packed event where masks are not on everyone and the guy talking at you is likely contagious in a place that just had a case outbreak? and he won't even show you any proof that he's okay. we just laearned today from minnesota's health department that nine people who attended his rally in that state a few weeks ago have tested positive. i know he said in the debate no one has gotten sick at his events. he lied. he also told you that he took a test before the debate. he lied. fool me once, shame on you. fool me twice, shame on me. how many times must some of you be fooled before you get that this president puts nothing before his own interests?

respect and love for the families, he said tonight. the families who have suffered with covid, respect and love. how does he show it? by saying, this affects no one, that it goes away magically. when you catch it, you just get better. more than 212,000 didn't get better. he's never even held a moment of silence for them at any of his rallies. conversely, he talks about how they died and the virus that killed them as if it was no big deal. they are dead on his watch, and many are suffering for the long haul. they don't get the medicines that you got, and they have to deal with the truth. they don't get to lie about their condition and life goes back to normal. they should have known the reality when you knew it. you should tell them you will get better testing and you're get more testing for them and their kids in the schools.

you say you learned so much from having covid. you learned what? how to lie about it? there will be no second presidential debate next week. it has officially been canceled. why? the president refuses to do a virtual debate, and he won't show proof that he is okay. where's the negative test? where is it? where's even his temperature? where is it? have the cdc clear you. this is simple. put up or stay put. you literally could be making more people sick. but trump does have a third option, and of course he took it. instead of put up or shut up, he went for the kiss-up on fox. a doctor at fox interviewed him, not even an exam. no covid expertise. this is the same guy who said the worst-case scenario is that covid will be like the flu.

covid has already killed more than the flu has in the past five years. the interview was done on a show that fox's own lawyers said in court is not to be taken seriously. it is not a credible source of news. that's where he did the interview with a guy who doesn't know what he's talking about, didn't even examine him. that's the best he can do? and he said, yeah, i was tested today. i don't have the numbers yet, but i'm either really low or clear. that makes no sense. there is no such measure when it comes to being tested for covid. you want the proof? here's a real doctor who knows the testing, knows the epidemiology, knows the symptomatology, and knows what it looks like when somebody is well. and we can tell this right now before we even hear from a real doctor. there is a diagnosis, my brothers and sisters.

this president has a case of deadly dereliction of duty. let's bring in dr. sanjay gupta and van jones. sanjay, listening to what was supposed to be a comfort-giving interview on fox by a doctor, what did you hear that gave you any cause for confidence? >> there wasn't a lot of information that was given there really at all. i mean, you know, most of it we'd heard before and obviously wasn't an exam. so, you know, it's -- you can't really make much of it. the president did say that he had congestion in his lungs. mark siegel asked the president, did he have scans? and he said he had all kinds of scans, but he didn't say what they were, but then said that they seemed to show some congestion in his lungs, which is actually the first time we'd heard that because previously the president's doctors, dr. conley, said there were findings. look, this is all purposely vague, chris. we're left to look at these

breadcrumbs and try and piece something together here. it sounds like the president is off of his medications now, but he said that initially, and then later on in the interview, he said should be off shortly or something to that effect. so, you know, again, there was three medications. he received those antibodies as you well know, remdesivir, this antiviral, and the steroid medication dexamethasone. it's typically a ten-day course. >> right. >> so if they're doing the proper course, he should still be on it. >> right. >> again, i couldn't tell from that interview if he was or he wasn't. >> they say he tolerated it very well. we don't know if that's true. i think the biggest thing to discuss is he said, i was just tested. i don't have the numbers yet. i'm either very at the bottom or clear. i've been tested a bunch of tim times, a bunch of ways. i have never seen any kind of reading or scale or anything, even when i get the lab report.

it's still a bunch of gibberish and yes or no, positive or negative. what is he talking about? >> well, first of all, let me just say it doesn't really matter that much because when you have covid, as you well know, chris, you're really not cleared until ten days after you first had symptoms, and that's regardless of what the testing shows because the testing could be false negative. and sometimes a test can continue to pick up viral fragments even though somebody is not shedding the virus anymore. what he seems to be talking about -- and again it's not totally clear to me, and they talk about these trajectories of these diagnostics in the letter, this language that isn't clear, but it seems like they're trying to figure out what the viral load is in the president. so you do the pcr test. >> there's supposed to be two pcr tests of 35 cycles or more that show no live virus, or if you're going to do that many cycles, no virus load almost at

all, sanjay. >> that's right. >> i mean he clearly doesn't have that. otherwise, he'd have a nice easy answer. here, take a look, i'm fine. >> yes, you're right. yeah, he would say that. if he was truly negative with a few cycles of a pcr machine, he would say that. i think what they're doing is he's still positive, but they're doing more and more cycles and seeing basically at what point does it seem like the viral load is low? look, we don't know because they're not -- they're purposely being vague on this. but i think they're trying to track his viral load, it sounds like, and using that as an indication that if it's going down, that it should be cleared by -- pick a day -- saturday, sunday, monday, you know. so it's a guess. it's conjecture on their part to do that. you're right, chris. if you're going to use testing as a way to figure out if someone's no longer contajjous, you need to have two proper pcr tests separated by a day and they have to come back negative. >> we have elevations in hospitalizations, but i want to

bring in van real quick. just a note to people at home. if that had been the standard for me, ten days after i started to have symptoms, i'd make everybody sick who came around me ten days in. i had fever for certainly over two weeks, real fever, real symptoms. so this standard is already crazy generous. van, so the strategy here is i'm cleared, i'm strong, i'm back. i'm doing more rallies. what should be the democratic response to the recklessness of the president in this instance? >> well, i mean at this point the democrats just have to watch this train crash happen. the president is drowning, and he just threw himself an anvil. you know, refusing to debate. he needs to get in front of the american people, the biggest audience he can possibly have, which is the debate audience, and he just whiffed it. he decided he doesn't want to do it, and now he's going to do some crazy cult-like event for people.

it's like a death cult. i mean who is going to go to the white house this weekend when people have been, you know, dropping like flies in terms of, you know, getting these diagnoses? it's just nuts. so at this point democrats have to just almost watch the spectacle. >> look, if he wanted to debate, all he has to do is show the pcr test that shows he's clear of virus. they'd be able to do it. one plus-minus on this. so with all this going on, pelosi and raskin and a couple others are trying to do this 25th amendment thing. it's obviously about trump. i had jamie raskin on the show last night. respect for the congressman but not for his argument. he's like, oh, no, it has nothing to do with trump. it's all about trump. why mess around with the 25th amendment? why do that right now. >> i think they're trying to find as many ways as possible to raise the concern that i think a lot of americans have, that this behavior doesn't make sense. listen, if you had a relative who was acting this way, who

came home from the doctor, who came home from the hospital and said, they gave me some stuff. i'm now cured of covid. i want everybody to come over to the house. i'm going to give a big speech to everybody. you would say, there's something wrong with grandpa. there's something wrong with, you know, uncle donald. you would not say, hey, here's somebody who should be the leader of the country. so that's in some ways, is it a stunt? yes. is it about trump? yes. but it's also a way for people in congress to continue to raise this issue that there seems to be something way off here. this is not -- you know, there's a lot of shenanigans from donald trump you've gotten used to. but this, the idea i'm going to be the super spreader in chief, and i'm going to, you know, literally call people to me at a time when i should be by myself is journalist a whole different level of disturbing behavior for the president. >> it will be interesting to see who shows up tomorrow. sanjay, so 46,000 cases, we're up 12% in like the last week, 10, 12 days. we're hearing all over the state that people are having new cases

pop up. some of that was expected as things reopened, as kids are back in school. but hospitalizations are popping up also. you're month worrire worried ab and how do you read this in terms of expected versus not expected? >> i think this is a really crucial point, chris. two things. one is that, you know, there's been this belief accurately that young people are a lot less likely to get sick. we know that. but what we're seeing, as schools reopen, we are seeing hospitalization rates go up, which means that vulnerable populations are still being affected as a result of younger people's increased mobility. just remember that. even in it's just younger people increasingly mobile, it does affect these vulnerable populations. we don't always know how. tough to contact trace, but that's the purple line there on that graph, and that's the expectation in terms of hospital beds going into the winter season. the problem is i found this sort of buried within the models.

the problem is we don't have enough hospital beds to really meet that demand. let me show you this other graph. darker the color, the fuller the hospitals in these states. some of these states already have over 70% of their hospital beds full right now and we're not even fully in flu season. this is the problem, chris. we talk about number of people infected, number of people who have died. but the process of trying to care for people when you suddenly have these huge surges, it's tough work, right? right now as your brother did in new york back in april, many states are now looking at buildings. >> right. >> saying it's going to be too cold november, december. we've got to find conference centers and other large buildings right now that can accept hospital patients. >> and he's saying we're rounding the corner, the president. and i got to tell you, governors like my brother -- you know, andrew speaks for himself. but, you know, they are concerned because the margins are always small. the beds are almost always filled in the hospitals. they expanded capacity, but not enough. you've got homeless people and

mentally ill people on the streets because they don't have the capacity to keep them, and the problems are only going to get more as you have this new flood of new illnesses. you're know, they're seasonal, and the president's saying we're rounding the corner. sanjay, we're obviously not. we will keep it straight for people. i know you can promise that -- or i can promise that. you can deliver on it. van, can your team capitalize on it is the last question here. this election is going to be straight-up referendum covid time by the time november rolls around. we're going to hear bad things. this president will likely be lying about those same things. what must joe biden and kamala harris do to win an election in this environment? and before you answer, they can't just sit back and watch. people are desperate for leadership. >> well, i think they are showing that leadership, and i think it's two things. one is with regard to the president's behavior, you create the contrast by being responsible but also by talking about not just what you're going

to do to deal with the virus. in fact, there's broad agreement about what to do to deal with the virus. the problem is the president's behavior undermines all of those good recommendations that have even come from his administration. i think what they can do and immediate to do for the younger voters is talk about what they're going to do once donald trump is no longer the subject of conversation. how are you going to actually deliver jobs and help and relief to people? you've got people who are literally in food lines right now in this country who have been sitting in a car for a couple hours waiting to get a little box of food to take home that's going to last for a week. this is not the america anybody signed up for four years ago, but you've got to talk about how you're going to actually deliver on the jobs. i think honestly trump is now a self-indicting document. you have an opportunity if you're biden, if you're harris, to talk about a future beyond trump that works for a lot more people, and i think you're going to be able to find an audience, a much bigger audience now than

two weeks ago. >> sanjay gupta, van jones, thank you very much. your families, be healthy, be well, and have a good end woo. i'll see you tomorrow night, sanjay. we have new information and troubling questions surrounding the foiled plot to allegedly kidnap the governor of michigan. i've never heard of anything like that, let alone that being ignored by the commander in chief. we still don't know if more are being planned. an attorney for one of the 13 domestic terror suspects is here. what does he have to say? next. you know when your dog is itching for an outing... or itching for some cuddle time.

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i want to show you the alleged enemies among us, the faces of the men facing charges in an alleged domestic terror plot to kidnap the governor of michigan. i'll put the faces up. there we go. authorities say the plot involved scouting the governor's vacation house, prepping explosives, and they were holding secret meetings beneath

a trapdoor. you're looking at that right now. the criminal complaint from an agent suggests the man who lived in this basement, adam fox, was leading the charge. cnn talked to his employer. >> what was he getting from amazon? >> like mres, food, stuff like that. >> so survival stuff, did it seem like? >> yeah, he was buying more like attachments for an ar-15, and he was buying like food. and i'm not stupid. i was in the marine corps. so i told him he had to go. >> now, that guy is not involved. he owns the vacuum store. he knew fox, let him stay in the basement to help him out, started seeing these suspicious things, told him he had to go. that's his story. now, among the men actually charged is daniel harris. parker douglas represents harris, says he wasn't really involved. he joins us now. counselor, thank you.

>> pleasure to be here. thank you. >> first let's do personal, and then we'll do facts and law. on the personal side, can you give us some kind of picture of who this guy is, what his family life is like, what his psychological profile is like, you know, just what kind of person is this? >> i can give you as much as i can -- was able to garner in a little over an hour talking to him. i saw the complaint for the first time yesterday and talked to mr. harris for the first time today for about an hour. what i would say is that he's a young man. he was in the marines. he went in right after high school when he was about 18. he got out when he was 22. that was a year ago june. and he's been out since a year ago june. he's been living with his parents. he works as basically working for a subcontractor mostly putting in decks and lives with

his parents and his dog, who is half shepherd, half lab. >> did you talk to his parents? >> i did not. i haven't yet, but i hope to talk to them tomorrow. >> any discussion with him if he's on any medications, if he's, you know, expressing any kind of extreme beliefs or extreme fears or anything like that? >> i didn't ask him about medication. obviously i don't think i can talk about that if he did tell me something. but he didn't -- you know, as far as, you know, whether he was lucid, clear, et cetera, he was all of those things. he was concerned as anybody would be facing allegations that are, you know, set forth in the complaint. >> he was not proud about what he's connected to? >> well, he had some confusion, and he's certainly not happy to be connected with what he's connected to. but, you know, even reading through the complaint, i'm not

sure how much what he's connected to yet. and i think that, you know, what we have is a complaint that's, you know, a sworn complaint by one agent that details some movements, some text messaging, some calls. sometimes it's unclear who's party to which calls, and i don't mean to sound like a lawyer parsing things, but that's what i have to do -- >> that's your job. everybody deserves a defense of course. i'm an officer of the court as well. i'm a lawyer. i get that. >> yeah. >> and this is very early on in the process. they say they have a lot of investigative material, but i just want to ask you one more thing. then we'll get to what is in the record now. did he express any strong views or ideologies to you that would explain animus toward the governor? >> absolutely not. as a matter of fact, the only thing he said to me was that he's a person who likes his

privacy and supports the bill of rights and that he doesn't really find that he belongs in one party or the other. in that sense, he sounded a lot like me to tell you the truth. >> all right. that's fine. now let's get to what we understand. was he ever -- was he able to tell you in your conversation how he can explain hanging around with a group of guys and having rounds of conversation like he had as attested to in the affidavit, in the supporting affidavit to the complaint, which as we both know and anybody who wants to read it will know, is a clear expression of animus, of hate, of planning, of trying to hurt, in his case, knock on the door. when she answers her, just cap her at this point. f it. that is unambiguous in its

intention, so i don't know what he's confused about. >> that statement is unambiguous in its intention. what he told me was that it was incomplete and he wasn't sure whether or not they had transcribed it completely or not. i don't know that until -- >> what does he say was missed? ha, ha, ha, just kidding? i hope nobody is recording this because i don't mean it. >> he didn't say anything. what he said was there were things that were said after that and perhaps before it, and i don't know what those things are because i haven't seen the whole transcript yet. >> what could they be that would be exculpatory, that would make him not threaten to kill the governor while in conversations with people who were planning just that for weeks? >> well, one -- i mean he didn't tell me that he said those things for one. and i don't know that the transcription is accurate. >> okay. so it may not be him. that's his best defense. but he didn't say to you he didn't say it? >> we didn't talk a lot about the statements actually. i talked more about, you know,

who the other people might have been, how long he might have known them, et cetera. >> and you say that he didn't really know them all that well. he met them shooting at the range. so here's the main question at this point, and i welcome you back as we develop more of the record, you develop your own understanding of the case. >> sure. >> that is a genuine offer. if he did not have anything to do with this, as we heard from the guy who owns the vacuum place where fox was living in his basement as a favor, it was obvious there were things going on. it should have been obvious to your client. if he wanted nothing to do with it, if he wasn't about that, not a member of this group, why didn't he go to authorities? >> we didn't talk about that at all, and it's -- >> it's a good conversation to have, counselor. >> well, i know, and i had an hour-long conversation with him today. you know, i'm surely going to have more. but as far as, you know, you're talking about groups. you know the group of five

people that were arrested with him, it's unclear to me whether they're related or not to the other groups that were arrested today. when i talked tbout those other groups, he didn't indicate to me that he did. >> he's also identified as being at another meeting at this house on like or ion that was very specific in its intent and direction. obviously what we want to hear from this guy if he had nothing to do with it is how he can explain that and what -- why he didn't do anything about it. but you've only had one conversation. as we develop more of the record, you're welcome back to make the case, and i appreciate it. it doesn't get more serious than this in our country. this is allegedly domestic terrorism against a sitting governor. as you know, very serious conspiracy and kidnapping and terror charges could still be coming and are coming. >> absolutely, and we take them very seriously. >> counselor, thank you for taking the opportunity, and i hope to speak to you again. >> hope to speak with you too.

thanks for having me. >> all right. look, i know it's not getting a lot of attention from our president, but i believe that's about malfeasance, okay? he said things that amped up guys like this. he may have even been at the rally where trump called them good people. they're still investigating that. so we're going to stay on it. but we're also going to balance it with the other virus in our society, covid, the pandemic. a huge thing is getting kids back in school. i know you hear me talk about it all the time. we have a different angle on it tonight, a real must-see segment. is the mistake we made with kids in schools that we made it too complicated and too hard? what do we know about how much the virus spreads in schools? a must-see segment, next. look at that scuffed up wall.

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not good news. the united states is now

averaging more than 46,000 new covid infections each day. it's up about 12% from last week. more than double from where we were in june. why? places started to open back up, and now we have kids in school. we expected more cases, but it has a lot of leaders and people in communities all over the country spooked, especially when it comes to schools. now, i -- full disclosure, i have argued here we did our kids dirty. we didn't put the thinking into the resources, the contact tracing, and the types of testing that would have given us the comfort level to track cases accurately and put our cases where they belong, in school. now, part of the proof of my theory is that there is no federal effort to even track covid cases in schools across this country. think about that. of course it adds to the uncertainty, and it's intentional. why wouldn't this president want us to know how many cases our kids are catching if he wants them back in school? so in the absence of leadership, let's talk about the information

we need to make the right choices for ourselves. one of our guests, an economist, says she has good news for you, that fears about schools have been overblown, and she can prove it. but can she prove it to a doctor and former public health officials' satisfaction in let's see right now. emily oster is an economist at brown university. thank you for joining us. dr. leana wen you know, and she oversaw school health in baltimore as a reminder. dr. wen, thank you. emily, thank you. emily, begin. and i want as little to do here because i want to learn as much as i want to lead. what do you see in the data that gives you confidence about kids being back in school? >> so let me just first, chris, amplify the first thing you said, which is that it is shameful that the people collecting this data are people on my team and not the federal government. what we're doing is we're going into schools. we're asking them, how many kids do you have in we're tracking their covid cases. and what we're seeing early on

is i think somewhat reassuring. the last two weeks of september data, looking at a couple hundred thousands cases, we're seeing rates that are 1.5 cases in a school of 1,000 over that two-week period. this data is very early, so i'm not really sure that i can convince dr. wen, but i think it does start to suggest that maybe particularly in lower prevalence places, which would be more aggressive about opening, especially with elementary school kids who are suffering from being at home and where distance learning is not a great solution. >> give us a little context on the data, how many schools, how many states. what kind of sample? >> so it's covering almost every state. i think we're missing data from alabama. it's about 600,000 total enrolled kids of which about 200,000 are in person, about 50,000 in person staff. we have both district public schools as well as charters and private schools and about 75% of the schools in the sample have

at least some in-person learning. it's about 1,100 schools. >> so a case and a half per thousand. doctor, what is your reaction to the data, and what are your questions as a result? >> well, my first reaction is that i'm very glad that professor oster and her colleagues are doing this, and it shows that when there is failure on the part of the federal government, that there are great people who are stepping in, into that void. i'm somewhat reassured by the data but i'm also a little bit concerned because it seems like we have the cases of -- the reported cases in schools for students and teachers. but i wonder from professor oster is there a way to track for parents and caregivers and others who live in that house told of students and teachers too? >> yeah. i think that would be great, and i think we don't currently ask that although it's something that we could add, although i'm not sure if the schools will know. what i would really think we're going to need to do is start looking at the counties where these schools are and trying to

link school opens to what's happening overall in the community. that's something i think we could in principle do with even other data. of course people haven't done that yet, but i think that concern and the concern about the staff in particular is kind of really central to these questions. >> and let's discuss why it's central in a second. first one step sideways. dr. wen, remind people why you are worried about kids because what we were told is, don't be. largely asymptomatic. come through it. you have a few hundred that have died. that's terrible, but it's nothing compared to the rest of us, and until they get to be 10 or so, they don't even spread like the rest of us. so they're really not our problem population, which is why people say the old, the weak, people like me, they have to be in quarantine. all the young strong people like you and our kids, they can be out and live normal life. that's the best way to do it. what's your take on that premise, doctor?

>> well, so it is true that children tend to get less severely ill than adults do, that the mortality rate among children is very low. but that said, some children do get severely ill. and by the way, the same disparities that we see in adults is mirrored in children. that sadly and tragically, three-quarters of the kids who have died are black and brown children who disproportionately bear the brunt of disparities once again. we also know that for children, that older children, 10 and older, probably transmit coronavirus as much as adults do. children under 10, probably most studies suggest they transmit it less, but they certainly do transmit it. there was a study that found an 8-month-old child transmitted covid to the family, and another recent study found that one 13-year-old transmitted coronavirus to 11 out of 13 family members that this 13-year-old was around. so all this is to say that we can't just think of walling off a portion of society. actually other studies have suggested that the surges are

actually driven by young people. now, you have young people in their teens and 20s who first become infected and then a couple weeks after that, that spreads immediately to those who are 60, 70 and 80. so what starts in the young doesn't stay in the young. >> one follow on that and then let's discuss that main point about what they call interstitial spread which is where the kid may not have that bad a case, but they bring it to vulnerable people and you have to account for multiple generational households, which are very prevalent, especially as you move down the economic ladder in america. has any community spread happened because of a school, doctor? >> there are certainly cases although it is very difficult for us to prove. >> right. >> looking around the country, those health departments that collect it, 50% of cases or more are from community spread, and we just don't know. >> right. and that's the problem. that's why we need the testing. and, emily, look, i wanted this to be clear to you. i didn't talk to you before we did the interview. you're among friends. you're doing research that nobody else is doing for us.

you are not brought here to set up as a bad guy. quite the opposite. so that's the last variable that you have to build into your modeling if possible, which is all right, so they give you the right number. let's say nobody lies, okay? but the teachers, the teachers' families, who's at home, grandma living at home, grandma raising the kid who's sick and fine, but she's not fine. you know, how do you account for that in understanding the impact of kids in school who get sick? >> yeah. i mean i think we need to try to account for that by sort of looking at what's happening in the community. i think the other piece we need to account for is what are the precautions they're taking in schools. this kind of other piece of the data is are the schools wearing masks, are they distancing, thinking about how do we do safe reopen. i think that intersects with this same question. if the kids are all in school and wearing masks and even less likely to spread in schools, then it's not going to come out into the community. i think we really need to understand this problem better because i think we all want to get kids back in school, and yet

none of us want their grandparents to get coronavirus, and somehow we've got to figure out how we can get enough information to actually make that happen. >> doctor, last point as to people who at home who are saying, one case, the whole school shuts down. you're not having a lot of kids get sick. it's just panic to when anybody does. they should be back in school. your answer? >> i agree that kids should be back in school, but that's something that we as a society that we have to prioritize. we've been talking about this choice of bars versus schools, and in some ways it's an easy choice for a lot of us. but i do think we as a society have to figure out that we can't do it all. we can't have schools open and everything open and cases surging out of control. so if schools are going to be a priority, we as a society, as people, have to determine what are those other things that we have to give up, which might include also informal gatherings and limiting play dates. it doesn't make sense to have play dates and birthday parties

while keeping schools closed. >> i completely agree with that. >> emily, as you get more info, let me know. you've got a forum here. >> that would be great. i'd love to come back and tell you more. >> schools or bars, show of hands. all right. nobody? i'm fixing my hair. schools is a priority for everybody. i argue it all the time. my three kids are a mess. the schedules are all different. the learning is not optimal. it's hard on their teachers. it's hard on the family. we have to do better. hopefully your data can point us in the right direction and dr. wen, i know you'll keep us straight about what time and evidence shows us in terms of keeping our communities safe. have a good weekend. we'll be right back. today, we are redefining how we do things. we find new ways of speaking, so you're never out of touch. it's seeing someone's face that comforts us, no matter where. when those around us know us, they can show us just how much they care.

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we've seen long lines this week for early voting all over this country. our leaders should be doing everything to ensure that those people are safe and they feel encouraged to go there and that they will be safe. yet the same president who claims to be mr. law and order is openly telling domestic terror groups like the one in michigan to break the law. >> i'm urging my supporters to go into the polls and watch very carefully because that's what

has to happen. i am urging them to do it. >> yeah. it can also be called a felony, especially the man who swore to protect and defend the constitution can't be counted on to do so. you want to poll watch, that's about protection. protection is about police. election officials and you. let's focus on the last one. we have mary mccord, okay, working to arm all of us with the best tool, the facts. mary, thank you for joining us. >> my pleasure, chris. so a couple of my rough neck buddies and i are going to watch people like you vote, try and get as close to you in the booth. is that legal? >> it depends on what you mean by roughneck buddies but voter intimidation or interference with the vote is illegal in all 50 states and it's illegal under federal law. then of course armed vigilante, militia activity is also illegal in all 50 states. >> but you are not allowed to go in and watch people vote, right? >> there are poll watchers who are allowed to --

>> right, official poll watchers. >> right. not watch people cast their ballots. >> right. >> but just watch the voting process, right, to make sure that things are being done in accordance with law. >> right. but you can't just self-appoint yourself to that. >> no. no, no. every state has different laws that apply to that. in some cases, only certainly people can be poll watchers. sometimes they're it's different, state to state. but it requires some sort of registration with the state or some sort of recording of your presence there. under authority of the election officials. it's not just anyone and certainly not, you know, affirmarmed groups of individuals, certainly, wouldn't be permitted to be inside the voting booth watching people vote. >> what do you want people to know about what should be the case when they get to the polls? >> so, i'm not really worried about armed, unlawful militias going inside the polls. i don't think they're -- they'll be able to get in there. what i am worried about is that armed groups might go out,

and -- and take it upon themselves to respond to trump's statements about election mail-in ballots being susceptible to fraud and the election potentially being rigged and any delay in tabulating the ballots being rigged. and these are dog whistles to these self-professed, unlawful, militia organizations, to protect against election fraud the same way they have deployed, across america, to protect property against false rumors of violent anarchists coming during racial justice rallies. these groups are unlawful. they're not authorized, under federal or state law. militias refer to lawful state militias, like the national guard. there's no authority for people to deploy on their own. they're not protected by the second amendment. the supreme court's been very clear about that. that states may and must be able to prohibit private, pa

paramilitary organizations. they said it again in 2008. and, in fact, all 50 states prohibit this type of armed, coordinated use of force. really, it's the -- law enforcement and militia authority, ar-15s, assault rifles, et cetera. >> look. you say dog whistle. i say fog horn. the president called those good people. they wanted to kidnap the governor of michigan. they wanted to do it near the election. there are bad guys out there and it is a weird time when we have a president that seems to be giving them overt confidence. now, most people don't know the laws. how do they arm themselves with the information they need to be effective at the polls? >> so, i'm at georgetown university, now. running or helping run the institute for constitutional advocacy and protection.

we have actually put out fa fact sheets for all 50 states that talk about the laws are in each state, against these armed groups of individuals. they also give sort of a q and a. what you do when you see armed groups of individuals near a polling place. and we're distributing these not just to voters and election officials but to law enforcement, to state and local officials because it really is on state and local officials, this year, to make sure that voters can safely vote. and that's what they all want, and i am seeing people coming together. i've been spending the last couple of weeks talking to mayors, talking to chiefs of police, talking to district attorneys, voting rights organizations, state attorneys general. they need to get together with their communities. make it clear that they're not going to tolerate voter intimidation. they're not going to tolerate armed groups of individuals intimidating people before the polls, during election day, or afterwards. and unite with their communities to make sure that everyone can actually exercise their right to choose the next president.

and then, other elected officials, based on ideas and policies and not based on threats and intimidation. >> mayor mccord, literally, a lifetime of public service and you got a long way to go. so, thank you for what you're doing right now. the website is on your screen, and i will tweet it from my personal and the show account. mary mccord, thank you very much. >> thank you, chris. >> we'll be right back. smart in? -audrey's expecting... -twins! ♪ we'd be closer to the twins. change in plans. at fidelity, a change in plans is always part of the plan. i am totally blind. and non-24 can throw my days and nights out of sync, keeping me from the things i love to do. talk to your doctor, and call 844-214-2424. "a good education takes you many different horizons" and that sticked to my mind. so, when $1 a day came out, i said, "why not"?

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more dangerous and corrupt president than trump. he's harming our basic values, giving rise to hate, and he's selling out america to big corporations. i'm working to protect immigrants, women, communities of color, and lgbtq people. and i'm making corporations like pg&e and insurance companies play by our rules. we need experienced leadership

to wipe away trump's stain on america for good. here's something you're not hearing on fox. trump didn't win the nobel peace prize today. wonder why. maybe, it was failing to call out domestic terror, like the 13 suspects who may have been acting on his insurrection calls to liberate michigan. they were all charged in a kidnapping plot against michigan's governor and trying to overthrow government. not very peacy. trump wasn't nominated for any do-gooding in this country because he's too busy dividing and inflaming. i wonder if that impressed the judges. oh, by the way, he was nominated by this far-right, norwegian lawmaker, who put his name in for working on the uae-israel

peace deal. and there was a swedish parliament member who nominated him for helping secure an economic deal between serbia and kosovo. the world food program, for its efforts to combat hunger, they won. and by the way, we may need them here, soon, as an ever-increasing number are waiting in line for food in america. in an economy this president calls the greatest of all time despite the worst unemployment rate since the 1940s. maybe, he would be called peaceful if he didn't call the quest for social justice racist. and call black lives matter a symbol of hate. maybe, if he fought domestic terror, instead of encouraging it, people would see him as peaceful. maybe, he'd win a peace prize, if he didn't threaten that he might not peacefully leave the white house, if he loses. maybe, he'd win one, if he didn't berate his cabinet

members for not prosecuting political enemies. peace would be a much better fit, if he were about peace and not hate. i wish you all peace, this weekend. the best blessings for your head and hearts and your families. thank you for watching. "cnn tonight" with the man, d lemon. >> that is a tall order that you're asking. come on. really? >> stop asking people to overthrow the country. >> isn't that amazing? isn't that amazing? and -- and asking people to -- what did he -- what did he call today? black lives matter racist. and he said black lives matter was bad for black people. earlier, i was on with brianna, and i said that he was black-splaining. i got that wrong. he was white-splaining. >> a key distinction. >> well, you can't tell, lately. i mean, have you seen the makeup? he's darker than me. that's some