this week say every time they see him at a rally that they, you know, are reminded of this. the key here is, are the voters who may not have turned out in 2016. that's where all the senior volunteers were out door-knocking trying to get those voters engaged. no question the president has so many strong supporters here still. it is the question, though, not winning the senior vote, but a narrower senior vote could be a joe biden win. >> all right. thank you very much, jeff zeleny. thanks to all of you. anderson starts now. good evening. thanks for being with us. one of the president's staunchest supporters and closest campaign advisers, the man who prepped him for the debate in cleveland and caught covid soon after has broken with the president on it. former new jersey governor chris christie did not directly fault the president for his contracting the vierts, he takes serious issue, as you'll see, with the president's conduct in the face of what was once again a rapidly-growing pandemic. no one should be happy to get the virus, governor christie said in a statement obtained by cnn, and no one should be cavalier about being infected or

infecting others. now, before we get to rest of his remarks. take a look. this is the seven-day moving average of new coronavirus infections in the country. about 50,000 a day and climbing of what will be a new peak toward april. cases will cross the 8 million mark and deaths will top 218,000. here's how it looks on the map. cases climbing in 35 states. steady in 12. fall falling in just three. here's what that means on the ground. these are hospitalization figures for wisconsin which set a record today for new cases. and remember hospitalization numbers tend to trail cases by a few weeks. so the trend you see here is likely, sadly, to get worse. ohio today also reported a record number of cases and, again, they are climbing in 35 out of 50 states. those are the facts. this is the president of the united states today. >> right now i'm fighting to eradicate the virus and we're

doing really a good job. we're rounding the turn. the vaccine will end the pandemic, but it's ending anyway. i mean, they go crazy when i say it. it's going to peter out and it's going to end, but we're going to help the end and we're going to make it a lot faster with the vaccine and with the therapeutics and, frankly, with the cures. my plan is already crushing the virus. look at our numbers. look at our numbers. >> crushing the virus. he said that today at a rally in north carolina. his fourth straight mass gathering this week, and once again, anything but an advertisement for mask-wearing. according to cnn fact checker daniel dale this is at least the 38th time he said the virus is just going to go away since late february. he's been singing this song for quite some time. as you can see by the numbers, it's certainly not going away in north carolina where the president was. and as you know, perhaps the singt biggest way of bending that curve back down involves simply covering your mouth and nose with a mask. nearly 39,000 lives in this

country could be saved between now and the new year, more than 39,000 according to the university of washington's latest projection, if most of us would just adapt -- adopt universal mask-wearing. if 95% of us would just wear masks when they go outside. if leaders in this country got that message out, that would help a lot. here's what the administration is showing us instead. the president's entourage, that's earlier today. not taking that one simple painful step, wearing a mask. here's what the president said when they landed. >> then they come out with things today, did you see, cdc? that 85% of the people wearing the masks catch it, okay? then you have my friend -- and he's a nice guy. tony. tony fauci. he's a nice guy. he said this not a threat. this is not a problem. don't worry about it. it's not. it's the craziest thing. then he said do not wear a mask.

do not wear a mask under any circumstances. don't wear a mask. don't, don't, don't, right? we don't wear a mask and then they say, oh, wear a mask. you ever see any conflicts? but he's a nice guy so i keep him around. we keep him around. he's a democrat. everybody knows that. he's cuomo's friend. >> keeping aside the small-minded and cowardly attack on dr. fauci, who, by the way, has been serving this country at the nih for more than 40 years for both republicans and democrat -- democratic administrations. what the president said there about wearing masks is a lie. it's dangerous as well. cnn asked the cdc what study the president might have been referring to since he referenced it coming from the cdc. the spokesperson suggested it was one from last month which was designed to, quote, assess possible situations for community exposure, not mask use. response continues and i'm quoting here, growing evidence increasingly shows that wearing masks in community settings reduces transmission among individuals in that community. there are laboratory studies,

animal studies, community and epidemiological studies that show masking reduces transmissions in communities by blocking exhaled respiratory droplets. in other words, masks work. the president is wrong. that's the cdc directly contradicting the president's lie. they aren't the only ones breaking with the president. as we mentioned, chris christie spoke with "the new york times" both directly and through a statement which cnn obtained. he was, as you might remember, hospitalized for covid and at that rose garden superspreader event. he tells the paper, i was wrong. i was wrong not to wear a mask at the amy coney barrett moment. i was wrong not to wear a mask at my multiple debate prep sessions with the president and the rest of the team. he goes on to say, i hope my experience shows my fellow citizens you should follow cdc guidelines no matter where you are to protect yourself and others. quote, i believe we have not treated americans as adults that

understand truth, sacrifice and responsibility that i know them to be. again, this is from a republican, a conservative, a trump supporter. pretty simple stuff in the middle of a pandemic, no matter where you stand on the political spectrum. not only that, it might even be a fairly easy political lift for the president, as our gary tuchman discovered at a trump rally just on monday. >> let me ask you this, if president trump at the rally said everyone put on their masks? >> i'd put it on. >> sure, trump asks, i'd do it. all he has to do is ask, she said. imagine how different our world would be tonight and how different it would be in the months ahead if he would do just that. perspective now from best-selling author and "new york times" columnist, global affairs analyst, thomas freedman. so many best-selling books included his classic "from beirut to jerusalem." the last time we spoke, trump had just been flown to walter reed to receive treatment. at the time you prayed he would

get well and also reflect on this and say he's sorry. that obviously didn't happen. but could you ever imagine that he would still and so quickly be out there doing daily potentially superspreading rallies, bringing thousands of people together, not wearing masks or social distancing? >> well, it's just such an abdication of leadership, anderson, as chris christie implied. trump never trusted people with the truth. so people don't trust in back in most cases. you don't just wear a mask when you wear a mask to protect yourself. you actually wear it to protect your neighbor. your customer. your fellow citizen. your co-worker. and so to urge people not to wear a mask, to impugn mask-wearing is not only reckless, it's such a grotesque abdication of citizenship and community. >> well, also to get, you know, a crowd to boo tony fauci is just -- it's such -- it's just

the strategy of a weak little man. i mean, this is a guy -- tony fauci is somebody who has dedicated his life, you know, he could have gotten a job at some pharmaceutical company and made a ton of money. he's dedicated his life on hiv/aids, fighting viruses and saving people's lives. and to have him booed by, you know, as if it's some sort of, you know, bread and circuses enjoyment for the president and for the people in that rally, i don't know, it's just so small and cheap and pathetic. >> such a small man in such a big time. about all you can say. and, you know, the only other thing you can say -- because we can sort of do this every night, every day. because as another disturbing and apparent act by the president every day. i just have one thing to say. vote for joe biden. that's the only thing to say. because this doesn't stop unless the majority of the american people remove donald trump from

office. otherwise it doesn't stop and we'll have four more years of just these kinds of conversations. >> one of the things i think we have learned, you know, over the last several years, but also in this, i mean, it shows the limits of our system. and i think to me it shows the limits of our system that just in this case, the president is going to get away with hiding - when he actually last tested negative before he was -- he may have lied to the debate commission about having had a negative test. we don't know. they won't say. but that -- they are covering that up. we have a system of checks and balances, but it doesn't seem designed for a president who is shameless and a liar and actually wants to subvert all institutions and destroy the system of checks and balances. >> you know, one of the biggest things i've learned from this whole experience, anderson, is they're the words on paper, the constitution, the bill of rights, the regulations of

government, and then there are the norms. the norms that really, you know, inspire, enable and in most cases require us to live by those words. but if you have someone who is a complete norm breaker who does not respect those norms, who drives through every red light, then the words on paper really aren't going to protect you. when you have a president -- i've said this so many times, but it is the fundamental truth. when you have a president without shame, who is backed by republicans in the senate who have no spine, who are then amplified by a network which is utterly without integrity and behaves as a propaganda organ much like, you know, chinese and russian newspapers. that trifecta, president without shame, party without spine, network without integrity, that is a trifecta that can bust through any norms and rules that we have. and there's only three answers to that question. vote for joe biden. vote for joe biden.

and vote for joe biden. we can talk about how bad they have been. how they've misbehaved. how they've profces prostituted themselves to a terrible man. ben sasse talked about it to a group of his private fund-raisers. we can talk about it all we want but it only changes if people vote the right way on november 3rd. >> because you're saying if there is another four years, do you have any sense of what would -- what it would look like? i mean, nobody can predict what it would look like four years from now, but, you know, if we think things have been unchecked up until now, it's not as if the republican party is sort of going to grow a spine all of a sudden. >> nope. >> in the next four years. >> well, that's why i believe, anderson, you know, over the past year or so i've written things like mother nature's on the ballot because of climate change. and, you know, science is on the ballot. i'll tell you what i feel now, anderson.

america's on the ballot on november 3rd. america as we have known it is on the ballot on november 3rd. have no doubt about that. >> and yet, so many of the people who support president trump believe that they represent -- or that he represents the best of america. which i -- i don't -- i find it a hard link to make, but, i mean, that's -- it is just a -- is it a different vision of america? >> you know, i think there's so many reasons people vote for president trump. some is republican tribal loyalty. democrats can be tribally loyal to their tribe, too. some of it is because he's kept their taxes low. but in many cases, i think there are many trump voters who aren't paying attention to trump at all. they actually hate the people who hate trump more than they care about trump. he only paid $750 in taxes. he did this with women.

he lied 20,000 times. they don't care. they're not short of information. they actually know who he is. he is the stick they poke in the eye of elites they think look down on them and humiliate them. and that's a real problem. i will say, joe biden has really tried to attack that and really tried to address that. he's basically been saying to them, you know, when a president says i could shoot someone on fifth avenue and get away with it, you know what he's also saying? my followers are so stupid, i could shoot someone on fifth avenue and get away with it. biden's actually been talking to that. he's made it clear that i respect you. i know why people are hurting out there. i understand why people may have voted for trump the first time. they thought we needed radical change. the core that might feel humiliated that might see trump as the stick they use to poke in the eye of elite liberals that biden has really been very effective at addressing those people. talked to them not through their

ears but through their stomachs. >> i'm amazed that anyone would think that president trump has their back or respects them or really sees them -- look at even how, you know, he's treating bill barr now. barr who has completely, you know, prostituted himself. i didn't know him before, but he's completely unrecognizable to the people who claim to have known what he was like before. it's remarkable to me that people would have loyalty to someone who is so clearly -- lindsey graham, for instance, you know, said the president was saying racist things before. you know, i know he wants to get elected and stuff, but at a certain point -- yeah. >> you know, anderson? >> yeah? >> of all things that have shocked me over the last four years, it's really that, what you're talking about. senators i believe maybe about $175,000 a year. and they get free parking at national airport in washington, d.c. the way people have allowed

themselves to be debased, the way they've debased themselves for $175,000 and free parking at national airport, never thought i'd see that. >> tom friedman, appreciate it. thank you. >> you bet. coming up next, more breaking news. new reporting in "the washington post" on rudy giuliani. election misinformation and the russians. also, former president obama now speaking out against roadblocks to voting. i'll speak to colorado's secretary of state as well about record early voting in her state. we'll take a look at how that's going. (sneeze) skip to cold relief fast. alka-seltzer plus power max gels. with 25% more concentrated power. oh, what a relief it is! so fast! hi, i'm chris rock. oh, it's not about me, i get it! no, no, no, zoom in on it.

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you may pay as little as $10 per prescription. ask your healthcare provider about rybelsus® today. we have more breaking news tonight. there is new reporting in "the washington post." the headline "white house was warned rudy giuliani was -- multiple sources including intercepted communications that show giuliani was interacting with people tied to russian intelligence during a december 2019 trip to ukraine where he was gathering information that he thought would expose corrupt acts by former vice president joe biden and his son hunter. "the post's" shane harris shares the byline. he joins us tonight. it's a fascinating article. can you just explain the crux of your reporting? >> well, the crux of it is that when rudy giuliani went to ukraine in december, early december of last year -- and, remember, this and as president trump is facing down the barrel of impeachment.

rudy was over there talking to ukrainians to dig up dirt on the bidens. these individuals it was known to u.s. intelligence were actually russian assets. these were people who were connected to the russian government. and u.s. intelligence determined that they were likely feeding disinformation, false information to rudy giuliani, hoping he would take it back to the president and kind of inject it into the bloodstream back into the debate in the united states. this set off a collective panic, our sources said, at the top of the national security agency. rudy coming back to essentially hand kremlin propaganda to the president and a decision was made to intervene and try to tell the president in more or less words you can't listen to what rudy giuliani is telling you. he is feeding you disinformation and don't listen to what he says. >> and who had the task of actually doing that with the president and how did it go? >> that fell to the national

security adviser robert o'brien, we understand, after some consultations with senior officials. which would be appropriate in this case for the national security adviser to take this intelligence that had been collected and assessed and speak to the president to speak truthfully to him. it did not go well. we understand that the national security adviser made his case and the president sort of shrugged his shoulders and said, well, that's just rudy, and making light of it, dismissing the idea that this was some kind of russian setup or disinformation coming in to the president. and, of course, we know that president trump has frequently listened to the many kinds of lies and disinformation that rudy giuliani has told him and has said publicly, and doesn't seem to keep him at arm's length. he in fact seems to repeat many of the things, particularly about the bidens, that come from rudy giuliani. >> it's obvious rudy giuliani is not the, you know, the person he once was. he certainly feels like he's living his best life and feels very relevant, but is it really

possible that giuliani wouldn't know that these people were russian assets? i mean, in a prior life, he was the attorney for the u.s. southern district of new york. >> right. i can't tell what's inside rudy giuliani's mind, whether he knew or not. i think you could reasonably suspect that these people would be and, of course, some of these individuals were known to have a long track record in some circles if not being russian assets, they were known to be pro-russian ukrainian lawmakers. a pro-russian ukrainian lawmaker in one case. you would also imagine the former u.s. attorney might suspect when he's engaging with such people his communications might be incidentally collected by u.s. intelligence when they were up on those individuals. there is a lot about rudy giuliani's behavior that is just very difficult to understand and explain, particularly why he continues to peddle this information when he knows it's not true. >> it's fascinating article in "the washington post." shane harris, thank you very much. appreciate it. >> you bet. more breaking news.

president obama weighing in on the roadblocks to early voting as people wait in line to cast their ballots. he tweeted -- our democracy depends on it. officials in north carolina tonight reporting a record number of voters so far in day one of early voting. there you can see one of the lines. colorado's secretary of state, jena griswold, tweeted this news out today. as of yesterday, over 300,000 coloradoans have voted, which is 24 times more than at this point in 2016. secretary griswold joins us now along with cnn chief political correspondent dana bash. you saw the lines in georgia, disputes over drop boxes in texas and california. how do those compare to what's happening in your state and i'm wondering how concerned are you about what's happening in other states? >> well, i think overall, you know, despite the roadblocks that are being put up, americans are showing up in record numbers. we are seeing record early voting, and i think that's a great thing for our democracy.

you know, as a secretary of state responsible for ensuring all communities have their voices heard, it's important to say that very often voter suppression is systemic racism. and we have to fight against that voter suppression. we have to fight against that racism. and that's one of the reasons in colorado i've increased drop boxes by 50%. we've increased in-person voting centers. and for the first time are guaranteeing a polling center or drop box on all public universities and tribal lands. if you provide access, people will vote. and all americans deserve the same rights as coloradoans. >> so it's obviously a different tact than they're taking in texas where, you know, one drop box per county. that was -- the reason give by abbott for that was, you know, security concerns. you say you've increased them by 50% in the state. have you seen any security issues so far? >> absolutely not. you know, colorado has used drop boxes for many years now and we have security protocols

including videotaping, 24-hour surveillance, and we actually keep all of the footage for 25 months, and we have a history of drop boxes working just -- just great. coloradoans really use them. and i will say at this point in colorado, we'll have over 383 drop boxes across the state. that's approximately one drop box for every 9,100 people. and what the governor of texas is doing, taking away access during a pandemic, during such an important election, is voter suppression. removing access during a pandemic is voter suppression. and that's why i believe we need a national law ensuring that all americans have access to a mail ballot. hundreds of drop boxes. hundreds of voting centers. online voter registration. we need to make our elections nationwide modern elections and really give american citizens the access they deserve. >> dana, i mean, the long lines for voting, record numbers of mail-in ballots, which side gets more energized by that?

>> well, right now what we are seeing reported from states across the country that are doing this early voting and also states that are looking at absentee ballots and other means, it looks like democrats are taking advantage much more than republicans. now, that is in large part because you can look at the energy that the democrats have. you can look at the message that you're hearing from the top of the ticket, from joe biden, from kamala harris and from every democratic activist out there, saying go vote, go vote, go vote. and i can tell you, anderson, that republicans -- and we've talked about this before -- they are so frustrated with the guy at the top of their ticket because he's making their jobs very difficult. republicans from inside the trump campaign to the rnc, they worked for months and months and months to try to be on par with democrats with regard to early voting, with regard to absentee voting.

and it's been very difficult to do when the president has been telling his own supporters it's riddled with fraud. i'll just give you an example. florida, which obviously is among the most, if not the most important state for the president, 11.5% of democrats who requested absentee ballots returned them. 8.7% of republicans did. that's bad news for the republicans, even though they expect most to go and show up on election day. >> secretary griswold, what are you expecting on election day? the president has talked about getting people to be poll watchers and, you know, they've talked about a trump army deployed on election day, monitoring polling. are you concerned about what it's actually going to look like? >> well, i think we'll have great elections, just like every year. you know, it is illegal under federal law and colorado law to intimidate voters and we won't allow any of that to happen, but i do think voters should be

confident in voting however they so choose, whether that's a mail ballot or going in-person during early voting or on election day. you know, there are -- there is a very important role for supporters of both presidential campaigns to sign up as election judges or poll watchers. but they just have to do that in accordance with state law. we'll have folks from both sides of the aisle through the entire election process. and the one takeaway or the one message i would send the viewers is, if you have the ability to vote early, it's just better to have your voice heard right away. make sure your voter registration is updated. if you're in a state like colorado, vote your mail ballot. you can do it right from home. it's so easy and it's also safe and secure. >> you know, dana, we had tom friedman on earlier. talking about the spienlsness we've seen from the republicans over the last four years standing up in the president. now you have ben sasse critiquing the president to his constituents, not doing it

directly. chris christie doing a mea culpa, which is kind of a rebuke of the president, although he didn't directly challenge him in any way. are those signs of them sort of seeing which way they think the wind may be blowing and sort of shifting tack a little bit? or is there nothing more to it than -- than -- >> no, i think -- i think there could be. there might be different cases. chris christie, obviously, this is very personal. he was at the white house trying to get the president ready for a debate and clearly got the coronavirus there. and it was not very subtle in what he was saying, you know? i'm from new jersey, but i don't think you have to be from new jersey to get what he was trying to get across, which is that the -- he was told that the white house was a safe zone. everybody was tested. the president clearly we don't know when he was tested last. it's unclear if he was and he also made clear that public officials, wink, wink, nod, nod, need to stop saying this -- it's okay to get it, you'll be fine because that's not the case.

with ben sasse, anderson, let's be clear. he went through a primary season in his home state and so he feels more safe to say this, but he was responding to a constituent asking why he criticizes the president. and he went completely off. i think what you're seeing there is preparing for a post-trump republican party. and that's going to be people like ben sasse thinking about where they fall in line there. >> jena griswold, appreciate it. dana bash, appreciate it. we'll see dana on later on in the program. hi, i'm chris rock. oh, it's not about me, i get it! no, no, no, zoom in on it. the new iphone 12 pro with 5g meets verizon 5g.

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michigan's attorney general has charged another man in that alleged plot to kidnap the state's governor gretchen whitmer. accused in material support of an act of terrorism. that brings the total to 14 people facing federal and state charges in the case, and still no comment remarkably on any of this directly from attorney general william barr. on the west coast, one veteran prosecutor says he's served 36 years in the justice department. he's now saying he's had enough. phillip halperin is his name. he wrote a blitzering op-ed accusing bar of police officer sidesing the dafrm. barr overruled career prosecutors in order to assist the president's associates and/or friends who are potentially harboring incriminating information. this career bureaucrat seems determined to turn our democracy into an autocracy. phillip halperin joins us now. thank you so much for being with us. it is a scathing rebuke of the attorney general.

i wonder, was there a final straw for you in working under the attorney general? >> well, there were a number of straws that we can talk about, but before i do that, anderson, i think it's important that i let everybody know that i am somewhat of a reluctant spokesperson for this movement. and the people out there should know i love the department of justice. i spent my entire career there. more than 36 years working for the people of the united states. and, therefore, it's difficult for me to come this -- to this point where i have to criticize some aspect of the department of justice. >> this is not something you ever saw yourself doing? >> oh, no. i'm very, very reluctant to come here. and i have to tell you, if there's one straw -- i think you need to know -- from john kelly to jim mattis to john bolton to jeff sessions, this president has made it crystal clear that there is simply no place in his

department, in his administration for anyone who places loyal service to their country over service to him. and that's disturbing to me. because this is a dictator's demand. it's not a patriot's principle. and, unfortunately, no one, and i mean no one has followed this unconscionable dictate more flagrantly and more often than william barr. and it's because of that reason that i decided to go public and talk about the situation. >> well, i mean, it is remarkable given the -- what he did to jeff sessions. now, i mean, bill barr, for all his, you know, j -- may suffer of jeff sessions. the president already criticizing barr publicly and kind of unclear about what his future is. echoing of the president's baseless conspiracies around mail-in voting.

his involvement in the scene in lafayette square to support, you know, this line from your piece, you said rather than representing the interests of the american public, barr chooses to act as trump's lap dog. is it clear to you what appeals to barr about that sort of fealty to the president? is it just that he's relevant again? i mean, that he's now talked about and the center of attention? >> well, again, you're asking me to play psycho analyst here. >> yeah. >> it's hard for me to know. i mean, barr was the attorney general before. he's conservative, but he serve honorably. to career people in the department of justice, including myself, it doesn't matter if the attorney general is a republican or a democrat. all that matters to us is that he makes sure that he represents the people of the united states. and not simply the dictates of an executive. now, when barr previously served, would he have gone down this road? well, perhaps he would have, but he was never asked to. and the fact of the matter is

anybody who doesn't slavishly follow trump's demands is out of there. >> how does having an attorney general like barr -- how does that filter down throughout the department? i mean, or can you see it girling down through the department? >> there's no question it has. and i have to say, i speak for many, many employees. i have been touched by the outpouring i have received from people from all over the department. people who served in previous administrations. people who served in bush's white house. and this has made me feel that what i'm doing is necessary. because it's so important for people to speak out. silence really is the enemy of democracy. and when we have an attorney general who is bent on serving the president's will, we really are slipping into tyranny.

and that bothers me. >> it is remarkable, the silence given all the things that attorney general barr has weighed in on, that there's been silence from the attorney general on this very big case of a number of extremists plotting -- allegedly plotting to kidnap sitting governor gretchen whitmer. also interest in the governor in virginia. we know the president's continued to call whitmer a dictator, but the silence from barr is extraordinary, given the high-level nature of the charges. >> there's no question about that. and it's important, though, the attorney general has to represent the interests of the american people. and he has to be careful on what he decides to speak out on. but if he's only speaking out on things at the president's behest, then we have a problem. a then we have a lap dog. and that's something that has to

be avoided. you know, speaking particularly to the problems michigan, you know, he pivoted quickly to talk about the governor's health order and he compared it to the greatest intrusion in civil liberty since slavery. in fact, he didn't compare it to it, he said was the greatest intrusion. that's not doing a service to anybody. when he almost ignores what goes on in michigan or attacks the governor when at the same time he supports the president's agenda when criticizing black lives matter's protesters in portland. it's this unevenhanded distribution of the law that really troubles me and i think it troubles many of the people i know in the department of justice. >> phillip halperin, i appreciate you being on tonight and i appreciate all the -- your willingness to -- to be here. thank you. >> well, thank you, anderson. >> just ahead, a look at what was supposed to be a town hall

debate between president trump and joe biden tonight. instead, opposing town halls. we'll have analysis in moments from both town halls when we continue. hi, i'm chris rock. oh, it's not about me, i get it! no, no, no, zoom in on it. the new iphone 12 pro with 5g meets verizon 5g. 5g just got real, man! pow! and a majority of americans. say the vote for the next supreme court justice should wait till after the election.

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more breaking news now. duelling trump and biden town halls going on. was originally meant to be a second presidential debate. that is after president trump

balked at a format change from in-person to virtual after president trump tested positive for the virus. biden in pennsylvania. trump in florida. moments ago president trump was asked about his own testing for the coronavirus, something about which he has been covering up. >> when was your last negative test? when did you last remember having a negative test? >> well, i test quite a bit, and i can tell you that before the debate, which i thought it was a very good debate and i felt fantastically. i was -- i had no problem before. >> did you test the day of the debate? >> i don't know. i don't even remember. i test all the time. but i can tell you this, after the debate, like, i guess a day or so, i think it was thursday evening, maybe even late thursday evening, i tested positive. that's when i first found out about it. >> well, back to the debate because the debate commission's rules, it would be the honor system that you would come with a negative test. you say you don't know you got a

negative test on the day of the debate. >> the doctors do it. i don't ask them. again, i test all the time. >> did you take a test on the day of the debate. >> if you ask the doctor, they'll give you a perfect answer. i take the test, i leave and i go about my business. >> did you take a test on the day of the debate? >> i probably did. and the day before and the day before. i was always in great shape. i was in great shape for the debate. it was only after the debate, like a period of time after the debate that i said that's interesting and they took a test and it tested positive. >> so just to button it up, do you take a test every single day? >> no, no, but i take a lot of tests. >> okay. and you don't know if you took a test the day of the debate? >> possibly i did. possibly i didn't. >> joining us now, van jones, former special adviser to president obama. and rick santorum, former republican senator from pennsylvania. cnn political commentator dana bash is back as well. dana, did president trump do himself any favors tonight? he said you can ask the doctors to give you a perfect answer. the doctors won't give any

answer because he's told the doctors not to give an answer. >> exactly. look, the fact that he had to be asked multiple times whether or not he took a test the night of the debate and could not answer it is our answer. i mean, i'm sorry, but if the president took a test the night of the debate, he would have said i took a test the night of the debate. it's not something that you forget and i just, you know, maybe i'm making a leap here, but i don't think so. and that was the whole point of that exchange that went on way longer than i'm sure savannah guthrie had intended it to but she was determined to get an answer. and, again, his non-answer was an answer. why does this matter? for so many reasons. it goes to what we were talking about earlier in the program. chris christie who helped him for that debate in the statement he put out today now that he's finally feeling better after being in the hospital for a week. meaning the president, even though he didn't say it, has to stop being so cavalier about this. and not getting a test and

putting in danger the people who are in that room, including his opponent, f opponent for the presidency is as cavalier and careless as it can be. >> senator santorum, shouldn't the president just be transparent about when he last tested negative before he got sick? >> yes. the president should make his records available as to when he was tested and what the results of those tests are. i mean, i don't understand why he's not. whether he maybe didn't get a test that day, that's possible. they say he's not tested every day, but i don't see any reason why not to release that information. >> van, we don't have the sound bite cut from vice president biden's town hall yet, but he was asked about taking a covid-19 vaccine. he said if scientists say people should take it he would. he also said, quote, we should be talking about, thinking about making it mandatory. what do you make of that? >> well, look, when he was asked a bunch of questions in this

area, i think he got a little bit ramably and i think overall biden did very well. you kind of break your wrist going back and forth between these things trying to watch them at the same time, but, look, i think what he was trying to say is that you're going to have to take this seriously. make a serious effort. he talked even about having the -- bringing governors in. bringing governors in, he'd bring the governors in, mayors, in city council people, in he'd do all these different things, trying to make the point that the president needs to lead. i think that's more what he was trying to say. but listen, on both of these debates, these moderators are not giving these guys free passes. i mean, savannah was on this dude from the word go. and you know, and also the same thing on the other station. so you're actually seeing them -- >> not as much. >> maybe not as much. >> not as much. >> but biden's not dancing as much. biden's answering too long given these promises -- >> and biden's not president. >> whereas on the other side what you see trump doing, see, trump's got a disadvantage

because trump's got to defend all this stuff and then also try to get his message across while biden's just able to explain his plans and move forward. it's very interesting to watch these guys get grilled in front of a live audience. >> i want to play some more from president trump's town hall. let's listen. >> you were asked point blank to denounce white supremacy. in the moment you didn't. you asked follow-up questions, who specifically. a couple of days later on a different show -- >> you always do this. >> -- you -- >> you've done this to me and everybody -- >> why does it seem like -- >> i denounce white supremacy. okay? i've denounced white supremacy for years. but you always do it. you always start off with a question -- >> well -- >> you didn't ask joe biden whether or not he denounces antifa. i watched him on the same basic show with lester holt. and he was asking questions like biden was a child. >> well, sir, this is a little bit of a dodge. >> are you listening? i denounce white supremacy. >> okay. >> what's your next question? >> it feels sometimes you're hesitant to do so.

>> hesitant? here we go again. every time -- in fact, i'm sure they'll ask you the white supremacy question. isfrankly, you to want to know something? i denounce antifa and i denounce these people on the left burning down our cities that -- >> while we're denouncing let me ask you about qanon. it is this theory that democrats are a satanic pedophile ring and that you are the savior of that. now, can you just once and for all state that that is completely not true? disavow qanon in its entirety. >> i know nothing about qanon. >> i just told you. >> you told me but what you tell me doesn't necessarily make it fact. i hate to say that. i know nothing about it. i do know they are very much against pedophilia. they fight it very hard. but i know nothing about it. >> they believe it is a satanic

cult run by -- >> i tell i what i do know about. i know about antifa and i know about the radical left and about how violent they are and how vicious they are and i know how they're burning down cities run by democrats, not run by republicans -- >> republican senator ben sasse said, "qanon is nuts and real leaders call conspiracy theories conspiracy theories." >> he may be right. can i be honest? >> why don't you say it's crazy and not true? >> he may be right. i just don't know about qanon. >> you do know. >> i don't know. no, i don't know. i don't know. you tell me all about it. let's waste a whole show. you start off with white supremacy. i denounce it. you start off with something else. let's go. keep asking me these questions. >> i do have one more -- >> let me just tell you. what i do hear about it is they are very strongly against pedophilia. and i agree with that. i do agree with that. >> but there's not a satanic pedophile -- >> i have no idea. i know nothing -- >> you don't know about that? >> no, i don't know about that. and neither do you know that.

>> i mean, obviously, you know, qanon is based on anti-semitic, anti-catholic troepz that have been around for centuries, frankly. they believe, followers believe it's a cabal of democrats and celebrities who drink the blood of scared children because it has some hormone in it and worship satan and are pedophiles and are operating out of a pizza parlor in d.c. and someone was armed and went there to rescue children and of course there was just a pizza parlor. the idea that the president doesn't know anything about qanon, i mean, if he wanted to know about qanon he would know about qanon and he absolutely knows about qanon. >> he is a voracious consumer of news. even if he didn't get a briefing from his aides, he would see it on cnn, on every other news outlet -- and his tweets. >> he's retweeted dozens qanon posts. >> you're right, van. the other point is let me just

say as we're fact checking, qanon is not against pedophilia. qanon creates false stories that celebrities and others are part of pedophilia rings. that is what they do. but also, this is dangerous for so many reasons including the fact that there are people out there who are trying to decide whether to cast their ballots who are consuming information from the president and from qanon conspiracists who believe it. and i talk often with a man named richard thaw who does focus groups with obama-trump voters, swing voters all around the country, and more and more in the past few months he's heard from them conspiracy theories parroted back to him. it is absolutely going into the soil of this country. >> senator santorum, i mean, he doesn't do himself any favors by this. the only reason he would not condemn qanon or even acknowledge that he knows what

it is is that they support him. that in this imaginary world system that they have created he is the secret savior secretly fighting democratic pedophile rings and satan-worshiping celebrities. >> yeah. i said the last time we went through this debate -- which this is not a debate. but the last debate, the actual debate, that the president wasn't prepared. and you know, his people, whether they're preparing or not, they need to. i mean, to not expect this question and not be able to answer -- he obviously expected the white supremacist question and he answered it straight up correctly and right away. good. had he been prepared two weeks ago he could have done it and we wouldn't be asking that question again. and my guess is we'll get that question again next week because again he didn't answer it because he wasn't prepared. i just have to say to the president, you can't go wandering into these forums

without being prepared as to the tough questions that you're going to get and have a good response, one that needs to be made, which is condemning crazy things that are crazy. >> van, vice president biden was asked about packing the supreme court. he wouldn't commit to a position. he said he'd let voters stand before the election. that's a complete dodge. >> d-minus on that answer. i don't know how many times we can say it. you've got to be able to -- people are voting for a future. and they've got to know does the future have nine supreme court justices or 12 or 15? if i go with you. and i think that -- i understand why they don't want to do it. they want to kind of use it as a bargaining chip or whatever they're trying to do. or they're trying to keep the left wing of the party from getting too mad at them. but i just think it goes against the biden brand. he's a straight up guy. he tries to be a straight shooter. again, the only problem he had tonight was that he was giving so many explanations and going on a little bit too long. but i felt the authenticity

buzzer goes -- the inauthenticity buzzer goes off when he does stuff like that. i do want to say one thing. i was glad to hear the president say he denounces white supremacy. i think that he should do it the way that reagan did it. reagan didn't do it like he felt it was a pain in his butt to have to do it. reagan leaned into it, loved talking about it. he thought it was key to the brand. i mean, people thought reagan was racially insensitive and didn't like his policy. but whenever he got put in the crosshairs he loved the opportunity to be passionate about it. and i think that trump rather than being resentful about it should be passionate about it if he feels that way. but i am glad he actually said it. but then he botches the answer on qanon. and qanon is a dangerous lunatic conspiracy that's spreading like wildfire. it is very, very dangerous. and the president of the united states should smack that stuff down before breakfast very easily, and he didn't do it. >> senator santorum, do you think there's going to be a debate next week? one more debate. >> yeah, absolutely. i mean, i can't imagine why they wouldn't do it.

look, as i said the morning after the last -- the vice president debate, what the debate commission here did was horrible. to unilaterally go out there and change the debate without consulting the campaigns. i mean, the commission on presidential debates has to take the role that they're there, which is not the leader of the free world but to actually facilitate information for the public so they can make good decisions. they're not doing that right now. they need to get their act together. they need to work with the campaigns. and we need to have another debate that the campaigns can agree on, not some group of people trying to play god for the rest of the country. >> rick santorum, van jones, dana bash, appreciate it. thanks very much. programming note. as of now still one presidential debate left as i mentioned. president trump, joe biden scheduled to face off before election day one final time on cnn next thursday night. our special live coverage will start at 7:00 p.m. on thursday night. the news continues right now. thanks for watching. i want to hand things over to chris for "cuomo prime time."

chris? >> all right, anderson, thank you very much. i am chris cuomo and welcome to "prime time." president trump didn't want to virtually debate biden in a safe way and he wasn't willing or able to come up with a negative covid test, so the debate was delayed. we thought that was going to be the end of it. hardly. and what we are seeing in real time tonight really may be the most stark contrast i've ever seen between two candidates. so trump finagled himself a counterprogramming slot on a keeting network to biden's town hall tonight. biden would be on abc. he was on nbc. that caused a lot of controversy. but now that i got to see it, i have to tell you, in a way this may have been better for you. there is no question that seeing two candidates together is better as a basis of comparison than having to make choices about which one to watch in isolation. however, if you watched any of the president, it is so incredib